But it isn't just EV's. It is E-Bikes, E-Scooters and even smart phones have self ignited. It was obvious that this was going to happen with EV's. The level of criminal negligence from governments is astounding.
Careful though. you get EVangelist's telling you why nothing else suffers as much. While blatantly ignoring its scale. Ebikes and Phones have Significantly smaller Cells. While the risk is still there they are a much smaller risk because its both a smaller battery and Less individual units per Machine. EV's are Much Much larger and carry hundreds of them, with Teslas being in the Thousands. Each Cell has the risk of igniting and the larger you get the higher the chance gets. Let alone the bigger the fire due to just how many there are.
Interestingly the mainstream media are finally reporting the issue, but only as though it only belongs to scooters and suchlike. They ignore the scale of fire from EV vehicles that is of a magnitude way higher than any scooter battery.
When I first became a firefighter in the 1980 (in the USA), ICE fires were caused by poor maintenance, electrical, or even parking on leaves. I only saw two ICE catch fire from being damaged in an accident. Today, it is rare to have a ICE fire. I am retired now and I haven't personally seen an EV fire. But the big difference between an ICE and EV fire is that I could put out a ICE fire with an large fire extinguisher or less than 500 gallons of water. With an EV, there is no way for a firefighter to put the extinguishing agent directly on the EV batteries which is what is on fire. I once put out three burning ICE cars on fire at a dealership lot with less than 500 gallons of water. Everything I read about EV fires require thousands of gallon of water just to keep surrounding vehicles cool because there is nothing anyone can do, if you are outside and near impossible to even approach inside a parking garage.
There are 10,000 petrol car fires in Australia every year, so 150,000 petrol car fires since EVs locally became available in 2009. There has only ever *6* EV fires in Australia since the 2000s. Let us know how you can analyse that as an American. 🇺🇸
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b A single EV fire that takes out 880 other cars represents 881 EV caused fires. Do add some logic to your over- simplified analysis next time.
I lived in a five-block housing estate in Hong Kong with a footprint of exactly one hectare (10,000 m²). Each block had 37 floors, and each floor had 8 flats (i.e., a total of around 1,450 flats, and I guess not less than 4,500 residents). There was a car park underneath the apartment blocks (along with shops, restaurants, a wet market, and a 2nd floor playground). The wet market caught on fire once but that was put out fairly easily. But an EV fire in the car park lighting up other EVs would be catastrophic. EVs are a disaster waiting to happen, and places like Seoul and in particular Hong Kong are going to be Ground Zero for one of the worst fires we've ever seen.
You’re a fool! 25 ev fires per 100,000 cars, 1560 fires per 100,000 petrol cars. You’d better hope they get more evs in that car park, you’ll be a lot safer idiot.
The reason the insurance is ONLY 1.4 times a regular gas vehicle is because premiums on I.C.E. cars are being inflated to subsidize the EV insurance rates! You pay for this folly even if you refuse to participate!
And when they will figure out “advance fire fighting techniques” to suppress ev fires, we have to pay for it in higher parking fee, high price of apartment prices, rents
sry for you that in your conty main cause of fire is arsen. In my contry main cause is people DIY, like audio systems without fuse, replacing fuses with nails. General stupididy. Main thing to read out is cimpanzees exist in any nation. Anything is dangerous given enough stupidity to user.
They'll just send an update to the chargers remotely that won't allow the charger to charge beyond 80%. You are right though we are being governed by incompetent fools but this change would be very easy to implement
every single EV charging network is operated by phone apps. they get charged for every single kwh. anywhere from the average 50 cents per khw to 70 cents per khw. the app monitors the charge rate the entire time, so it can adjust to the charging demand required. if its 80% or less, it gives the EV the fastest charging rate the station and the vehicle can do. at 80% the charge speed gets cut in half basically. oh and yeah. the app also monitors the heat of the charging cable as well, so if it gets too hot, when i should say, it then too, cuts the charge speed in half. all of your charging history and data is saved in the charging app that you use... point is.....they have all the means they need to monitor your EV's battery charge status. reminds me of the covid vaccine apps and passes. sticking a bug up your keester and painting it as a pretty picture with some horsesht reason that its the latest best idea the morrons have came up with lol
The underground carpark in Canberra, right beneath Parliament House, would make a fine place to park and charge EVs, and every politician should be required to own one! (That's a win-win in any situation!)
I'm also freaked out about all the small e-scooters and such devices stored in apartments. And I own one (a high-quality Swiss-designed one, which just had some fault in the battery develop which has reduced about 80% of its range...).
Out of my own nearly brand new, premium German brand relatively expensive EVs two out of three developed serious faults: One had its battery cooling system fail totally and needed massive repairs.
And then someone else will come along and offer lower insurance on EVs because they've actually done the research and concluded that they catch fire less often lol
When the DFMEA indicated a likely occurrence of catastrophic fire as a risk of vehicle use, the Government had to provide the manufacturing organizations, relief from Civil Action. Therefore, the Insurance companies can't sue the BEV manufacturer, they have been given Government immunity
@@tjhessmon4327 There is no global government. China and US will likely try to protect its own companies but if they want to do business intenationally, they have to respect local governments too.
Imagine buying a car that has an estimated range of 300 mile and you can only use 60% since you can only charge to 80% and your not supposed to go below 20%, giving your roughly 180 miles of recomended use. What a joke.
What's the point of 'maximum' range in sales ads if the standard recommendation is to never charge over 80%? So effectively, range ought never to be advertised at 100% charge as it goes against official policy...? Very deceptive.
I would be interested to find out how they propose to screen EV battery charge when they turn up at the car park entrance. Assuming they can actually do this, you have to wonder how often you will see an EV driver say to his family "we just have to drive around the block 10 times to get rid of some of this excess charge".
LOL! And the EV fanboys will see nothing wrong with that at all. "EVs are such a joy to drive that it's fine to have to drive around the block for hours!" 🤣🤣🤣
Insurance companies are always in front of the curve. This is all engineered. Our personal transportation and movements are about to be dramatically reduced and controlled.
The trouble is that motor insurance companies will off set part of the high premiums for electric vehicles by increasing ICE vehicle insurance premiums. Watch out for this. My insurance company has denied this but my ICE premium has almost doubled in a year with no claims.
Insurance is, for the most part, a scam, existing to collect premiums, not pay claims. But, the cost of vehicle replacement and repair has increased across the board, regardless of powertrain. So has medical treatment if there are injuries. Inflation is a thing.
Its almost like some group want to destroy our society to make a great reset or something? But that would of course be a stupid and crazy conspiracy theory!!
Research The Caldecott Tunnel fire - a multi vehicle crash initiated by a drunk driver that involved a gasoline tanker - now imagine a tunnel full of nothing but EV‘s in the same situation - it will take one such event to force a ban of EVs from all tunnels, bridges, ferries, parking structures, etc.
@@stuartedge5906 what?- whole car park levelled from a single initial car fire? I certainly can’t remember many cases over the last 20 years until recently
For ferrie services in the greek islands, the EVs aren't accepted if charge is greater than 40%. Then the EVs are positioned near the edge of ferry in order to quickly.dump them overboard if they start to smoke.
Well, this is you saying that a lead acid battery will do less damage if its unloaded/dead. The electrical energy in a battery cell is just electrons that are loaded and ready to run for their plus. The thing that burns arent the electrons but the electron-holding materials lithium/carbon/organics. The electrons only could accelerate the heat build up.
I'm seriously thinking of moving house as I have 1 next door neighbour with a TESLA EV and a BYD EV and on the other side is a Mercedes EV all being charged just a few feet from my house
Why not put up a solid steel fence opposite the EV parking spots? And/or do other things in the fire safety space. Do you have an evacuation plan? Evacuation drills? Have you bothered or is it just easier to think about moving. And if you do move, will you check what the neighbours think about EVs before you buy? And how long they plan on staying and estimate their life expectancy?
Upgrade your sprinkler system..... and connect it to smoke detectors. After all, there is no way to guarantee that the next place you move to that the problem won't follow.
In Europe we don't have electricity so we get by today, so how will it work when everyone has to drive an electric car 🤔.In Germany, they have started demolishing wind turbines to access the lignite that lies beneath them, it is proven that lignite is more energy efficient than wind.
Meanwhile Finland didn't listen to certain parties which I can't mention negatively or I'll be censored on this platform: they just got a large new nuclear plant online and they're periodically seeing *_negative_* electricity market prices...
@@evfactsnotliesplease It started with a foundry founded in the thirteen hundred that had to close down when the United States blew up the gas pipeline.Then there are very many companies that leave Europe, especially in Germany . And it is due to a lack of energy, it cannot have escaped anyone that the Germans closed all their nuclear power plants and they have not replaced any of those reactors.
I live in Spain and we generate 105% plus of our electricity needs, do you want some??? Germany also closed all nuclear which is madness as these are the cleanest generators
The lignite (a pleasant name for huge areas with relatively shallow beds of low grade garbage coal) has to be dug out and safely diaposed of via specially designed power plants. This present low value agricultural land will then be sold on as high value property for residential and commercial development.
Well, if the state of charge of an EV battery has no effect on its ability to catch fire, this is an argument in favour of banning all EVs from underground car parks. In many places LPG cars are already banned so it should be easy to ban all EVs as well.
Left to burn, a Camry fire would burn itself out in about an hour. A Tesla, on the other hand, would probably keep smouldering for over 24 hrs. An engine fire in a petrol or diesel can usually be extinguished before the fuel tank gets involved.
It still amazes me that we talk about the dangers of EV fires but most people forget hybrids still run lithium ion batteries as well and when you consider that even e-bike batteries or even simple electronics today run lithium ion batteries which have shown to be just as deadly when they go into thermal runway you really have to question the logic of having these bloody batteries anywhere near any form of structure at all.
@@Noah_E yeah but they still run lithium ion batteries and like everything else that’s got lithium ion batteries they are still a threat and as they age they will pose more and more of a threat. It only takes some unseen damage or unseen battery decay from age or misuse for your pride and joy hybrid to turn into a massive fireball just like any other EV.
Below 50 Wh, a Li-Ion battery isn't a risk. A phone battery is 4 V x 5 Ah = 20 Wh; it doesn't endanger life. A drill battery is 20 V x 5 Ah = 100 Wh; it can be a risk to life. An e-bike battery, 36 V x 20 Ah =720 Wh; is a clear and present danger.
@@Ray_of_Light62 doesn’t matter how small these batteries are of course they pose a bloody risk there’s enough stories of mobile phones catching fire and injuring people and looking at the fact they can still go into thermal runaway and expel toxic gas they can also cause death. Only had to google can mobile phones catch fire and it came up straight away about the fire risk and the fact you only have to leave a mobile plugged in to long and the battery can overheat and explode. You’re living in fairyland if you believe they don’t pose any danger.
Great reporting! Having some experience with Korea and Korean culture, my guess would be that the 90% charge limit is a way saving face by obfuscating the severity of the problem by the obfuscating reality and skewing public opinion in hopes this was fluke accident and will not happen again. Sort of like the findings in the infamous Korean airlines 007 incident, where after the B747 was intercepted and the captain realized his mistake of veering into Soviet Airspace, he turned off the Navigation lights, beacons, transponder and communications and flew deeper into thinking Soviet airspace thinking the Soviets would simply go away
Now what? Simple, ban all EVs from your underground parking area, don't own an EV. After all, it would only take one resident's car to self-sacrifice and EVERYONE in that apartment building could end up homeless and without transport.... and that's only if they managed to get out of the place.
I suppose that EVs could be parked in a concrete silo, equipped with supplemental oxygen feed to get as clean of a burn as possible. Scubbers on top, of course, to catch the nastiness.
so lets be clear , the manufacture says dont run your battery to less than 20% , but you can only charge to 90% ; the range will be less , a lot less in reality , to the range claimed. LOL
One of my brothers got a EV a year ago. I talked to him as calmly and reasonable as i could to at least park it in the open, not the garage. He only scoffed. Now all i can hope is him and his family get lucky.
2:00 - As long as insurance companies ONLY increase the premiums for EVs and NOT apportion the cost across all insurance policies, MAKING EVERYONE PAY FOR THE DUMB DECISIONS OF EV OWNERS!
if people in government didn't get kickbacks from different industries most things would not exist, the money has to be taken away from government officials before there will be any change
@@Mady-lo6qb Yep but they do have to be charged at the factory to test them and to move them. I can't believe anyone shipping company would allows such dangerous cargo. They can literally just explode into flames while not charged or being used.
This is a very Korean/Chinese type of response, 'we're doing something, so that's enough.' The fact that is totally ineffective does not detract from the fact that they are loudly seen to be doing something... it's something... (that conveniently also relieves charging infrastructure and grid loading very slightly)
Insurers will likely be incentivised/bullied into spreading the risk across all car insurance premiums however with the potential liabilities associated with buildings coming down I don't think they will have any choice in becoming ever more stringent on EV parking or outright banning it in anything other than zero risk locations.
The cost of insurance will go up but would undoubtedly be spread across all policies. So essentially getting people with ICE vehicles to subsidise electric vehicle owners.
I don't about Australia, but here in the USA a lot of ICE fires are arson where cars are burnt after being used for crimes. Another large chunk are from collision and poor repair/lack of maintenance. They don't just burst into flame for no reason. They're also relatively easy to put out and stay out. EVs are the opposite. Self igniting and hard to extinguish.
I saw a no maintenance Tesla parked at the shops last week. Unwashed and unloved, front tyres spraying wire. An accident waiting to happen in many ways. Normally the only Teslas I see are on tilt trays presumably broken down
It is not the energy released that is the problem. It is the instability of a fully charged cell, which can cause the thermal runaway. And with time separator degradation, cell imbalances, bad circuitry, etc.
Be careful charging in sunny weather too because if the battery coolant pump has a problem (even a simple software problem or a wire chewed through by a mouse) then the battery will probably go into thermal runaway and explode. Always park in the shade when charging!
@@Luka_3D You're not very intelligent are you? ICE fire is not more than 400 degrees, can be put out in about 15 minutes with about 300 gallons of water if it's a bad fire and there is little to no toxic run off. EV burns around 2500 degrees, can't be put out, releases toxic Li heavy metals and fumes... I mean, are you actually dumb?
It begs the question, what was the actual charge rate of the Mercedes in Seoul? If it was less than 90% (likely as it was not charging), why is it even relevant to this event? It seems like a red herring.
I bet those statistics which already show EVs to be far higher risk are still massively flawed as they don't compare vehicles like-for-like and situations like-for-like. I suspect they compare all ICE cars to all EVs, which is incorrect comparison. ICE cars include far older cars, and their use and ownership is totally different, skewing the numbers massively. ICE statistics include 20-year-old cars owned by poor people, with neglected maintenance, kept in far worse neighborhoods. In addition I suspect most ICE fires happen when being driven or with the engine on at least, meaning it's noticed quickly as opposed to EVs which ignite with no-one around. Then add to that how those statistics probably include arson, vandalism etc. meaning it wasn't the vehicle itself which caused the fire. Those incidents affect ICE cars far more as they are more prevalent, especially in less wealthy areas. That further skews the numbers.
I agree. The sudden battery fires are caused by humidity infiltration into the battery casing. Once the battery casing (or its gasket) is damaged by a pothole or a minor collision, humidity start infiltrating the casing. It may take days or weeks. After enough water is inside, the high voltage - commonly 1,000 Volt - start causing electrical sparks and damage wire insulation. In few minutes the entire battery explodes and the electrolyte burns, in turn lighting up the cathode (LiCoMnO2) and the anode (graphite). Reducing the state of charge to 80 - 90% will not limit the fire starting ability of a battery. Only a SOC less than 10% would avoid a damaged battery catching fire. A new law is required to reduce battery voltage to 48 Volt maximum. A water ingress sensor in the battery is not effective. Many traction batteries already have a dew sensor and desiccant filters. Thank you for the video Greetings, Anthony
At 48v EVs of today would have a range of about 20 or 30 miles unworkable they had to go over the previous safe voltage to do it, and all without anything said, the last times electric vehicles were tried back in the 70s they gave up as it meant going over the then norm for safety of 48v Now there seems no limit 400v then 600v then 800v, Safe limit anyone? All in a conductive steel bodyshell so in a battery to bodyshell short circuit that's a contact incident of lethal voltage, could be avoided by plastic composite bodyshells, but that would cost more would it not?
Dead EV batteries stored for 'recycling' have caught fire burning the premises to the ground and taking days to put out. So no EV battery is safe at any charge level.
Think about what tends to happen to old tech devices. Put away in a drawer, then a box, then the garage or or basement. Now think about where so, so many old EV bikes, e-scooters, etc. are going to end up. The garage, the basement, in a jumble at a thrift store, in a storage room at your kids’ school… Yeah, it ain’t pretty.
Aviation being such an expensive enterprise, is very sensitive to restrictive laws. Thus most aviation regulations are a result of massive loss of life. As such, aviation regulations are said to written in blood. The general population is about to witness the same with EV’s.
A functioning BMS keeps the battery from overcharging so this is obviously a different issue causing the fires. Consequently, arbitrary SOC numbers will do nothing to mitigate the problem. Until they devise non-combustible batteries, people should expect to park where the car poses less risk to others and property.
Not just EV car insurance but your home insurance will go up and your neighbors home insurance will go up and your mechanics bill will go up etc. etc.!!
Not how much charge is in a battery, but how much damage a single battery cell has inevitably suffered from getting too hot, is what's the real danger. Inside a cell is a roll of sheet metal with a sheet of isolation in between. They make this isolation as thin as possible, so more capacity fits in the cell. The isolation could melt, making a contact between the sheets of metal. That's the start of a thermal runaway. The sheets of metal short circuit and heating up, causing more isolation to melt, and so on. This can happen at very low charges. And there is no way of checking if a cell is damaged, than taking it apart, and checking it with thermal camera's.
Around 1998, I worked for a lithium ion battery maker, and the sudden combustion failures are known to us but it was hushed up. At that time , the biggest battery they made were for lap tops. The battery were enclosed in a titanium casing, I seen failures causing the casing to look like compressed air been pumped into it. I am not clear on what chemicals are in the gas released if the casing failed but I suspect it will not be healthy . The worse case scenario we expected would be a failure in an airplane cabin, but nothing happened while I was working there. I think the insurance will put the EVs out of business until they invent a better battery. Oh well, back to lead acid.
Electric scooters are not allowed to be carried on the Tube in London. It is only a matter of time until electric cars are not allowed in car parks or allowed to be charged while parked near buildings or other vehicles.
I keep my ICE classic car in the garage. As most ICE car fires start due to electrical faults, I have an isolation switch fitted so it can be switched completely off, as I am paranoid about car fires. Lipo batteries in EVs, e-bikes etc scare the hell out of me, and until the next gen (iron) versions of Lipo arrive that have very low fire risk, I wouldn't touch even a hybrid with a bargepole. Maybe if the hybrid used NiMH batteries, but not Lipo!
Nicely explained Simon - the SOC level is just a sop to EV owners and is trying to make the poor 'others' in the apartment blocks to sleep more soundly.....
During my recent investigations, I found that home insurance companies are already asking about EV ownership, parking proximity to insured buildings, and charging location. They wouldn't ask if it wasn't a risk!
Thanks again for the info. Maybe it is a good idea to mention ones (or more often!) that the problem is not only with full EV's but also with hybrids. To circumvent the inability to charge in an under (apartment) laying garage many people buy a hybrid because they think they have than no problem...
A question: How much of my insurance cost for my ICE is because of the EV craze? Don't you think the thermal runaway is caused by the chemical reaction of the materials in the cell not the electricity?
It makes sense when you think about it. The capacity of a battery is the difference between Energy State A (no charge) and Energy State B (full charge). But those don't represent the total chemical energy in the system, just two positions the battery can reliably move between repeatedly. A LiOn battery has an energy density of 0.8 MJ/kg, but lithium metal has an energy density of 43 MJ/kg, more than 50 times that! So the battery charge only represents a tiny amount of the energy you can get compared to turning it into low energy ash. Now, obviously a LiOn battery isn't pure lithium metal, but even at a tenth of that a battery with zero charge would have 80% of the kaboom of a fully charged battery.
It isn’t just the SOC, when fast charging, the battery will be hotter and balancing which puts stress on various systems that could be a catalyst for the battery shorting or running away…
Well it looks like it is now not profitable for lease companies to lease EV due to cliff-edge depreciation and now the insurance companies may find EV not profitable due to high repair costs and fire risks.
Something to think about... For those involved in any aspect of the radio control hobby, you know that LiPO batteries are the power source of choice, right? You also know that the hobby shops sell fire bags for the sake of charging your LiPO batteries in the event that they spontaneously combust. You're also supposed to charge them on a non-flammable surface, and many hobbyists store their batteries in an ammo can or other metal box. Those of us who have been in the hobby for a while know it's not a matter of if but when a LiPO battery goes bad and starts to swell, or becomes unbalanced, or drops below minimum charge or is overcharged, gets damaged or even ruptured in a crash, or some other factor that damages the battery so that it's not safe to use and could catch fire. Incidentally, since it was mentioned speed charging lithium based batteries is very hard on them, it WILL reduce the lifespan of the battery, and it does increase the chances of a charging accident happening. The question is if hobbyists are taking all these precautions with batteries ranging in size from about that of a human thumbnail to about the size of a pack of cigarettes (In other words very small), why aren't these precautions being taken with full scale EVs? Just because they're bigger and packaged better doesn't mean the hazards go away despite what these fucktard EV shills try to claim. I tried posting a video on another site showing what happens when these batteries get ruptured and catch fire. These batteries are pretty spectacular and violent when they self-combust, but of course by doing so had one braying jackass of an EV shill start harassing me because the battery was in an R/C car. And to the EV shills going around to these channels to harass people, please let me know when you car goes up in flames... I promise I'll show up with marshmallows, hot dogs and beer. We'll make a party of it while watching that precious Tesla of yours turn itself into a pile of ash! Sound like a plan? LOL!
Fire risk goes up with a large super-charge, and the higher the final charge the higher the temps the battery has to deal with. Those temps are part of why it takes longer to charge the last 20% than the first 20%.
Can you imagine the potential financial liability that can happen if your car decides to self destruct? I am sure the insurance companies are going to exclude secondary damage from their insurance coverage. Even if you are a millionaire you could be financially wiped out.
So I assume from this that charging stations in underground car parks is no go in Korea. And yet in Australia, we just keep adding them to car parks under buildings at a planet saving pace!
I saw today a village guy who teaches on-the-road mechanics (like the AA for instance) how to best carry out their job. He has taken a course in EV's and is now qualified to teach these also. However, after the course he feels that the dangers of FATAL electrocution, particularly in inclement weather, are not worth the risk as basically you touch wrongly and you die.
9:15 I suspect where the difference is is in propagation to other cells. At a low state of charge there is less energy to spread the fire, this effect can be visually observed with some piercing tests. Basically the flatter the battery the less it plays dominoes.
All you need is a weak cell. They have higher resistance which makes more heat, that also requires more constant discharging and charging to balance that also happens especially charging towards the end when that cell is the weak link.
Ev insurance is high because of what insurance companies call "Total Loss Likelihood". Insurance companies are more likely to declare an EV a total loss after a crash due to the high cost of battery replacement.
90% is not just about safety, but also about time. That last 10% takes about 3 times more time than the previous 10%. This is about shortening EV charging queues.
Ouch. I saw 17% EV premium for car insurance. I spent 5 weeks in Seoul and outer areas and you could not swing a dead cat without hitting a EV. Taxis and light trucks everywhere were EV in a large percentage.
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But it isn't just EV's. It is E-Bikes, E-Scooters and even smart phones have self ignited. It was obvious that this was going to happen with EV's. The level of criminal negligence from governments is astounding.
Careful though. you get EVangelist's telling you why nothing else suffers as much.
While blatantly ignoring its scale.
Ebikes and Phones have Significantly smaller Cells. While the risk is still there they are a much smaller risk because its both a smaller battery and Less individual units per Machine.
EV's are Much Much larger and carry hundreds of them, with Teslas being in the Thousands. Each Cell has the risk of igniting and the larger you get the higher the chance gets. Let alone the bigger the fire due to just how many there are.
Corruption is a hell of a thing.
There’s no accountability…you keep electing gangsters! Enjoy
Don't forget airplanes - the Boeing 787 had several onboard battery fires.
Interestingly the mainstream media are finally reporting the issue, but only as though it only belongs to scooters and suchlike. They ignore the scale of fire from EV vehicles that is of a magnitude way higher than any scooter battery.
When I first became a firefighter in the 1980 (in the USA), ICE fires were caused by poor maintenance, electrical, or even parking on leaves. I only saw two ICE catch fire from being damaged in an accident. Today, it is rare to have a ICE fire. I am retired now and I haven't personally seen an EV fire. But the big difference between an ICE and EV fire is that I could put out a ICE fire with an large fire extinguisher or less than 500 gallons of water. With an EV, there is no way for a firefighter to put the extinguishing agent directly on the EV batteries which is what is on fire.
I once put out three burning ICE cars on fire at a dealership lot with less than 500 gallons of water. Everything I read about EV fires require thousands of gallon of water just to keep surrounding vehicles cool because there is nothing anyone can do, if you are outside and near impossible to even approach inside a parking garage.
There are 10,000 petrol car fires in Australia every year, so 150,000 petrol car fires since EVs locally became available in 2009.
There has only ever *6* EV fires in Australia since the 2000s.
Let us know how you can analyse that as an American. 🇺🇸
I agree with you I'm a tow truck driver and I've seen exactly what you are talking about and I started in 1980 also. Great comment Sir 💯
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b A single EV fire that takes out 880 other cars represents 881 EV caused fires. Do add some logic to your over- simplified analysis next time.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3bNO EV FIRES IN AUSTRALIA SINCE THE 2000S😂😂😂😂
Thanks for posting this. There are many other issues with EVs and I will never buy one (I am 66yrs).
I lived in a five-block housing estate in Hong Kong with a footprint of exactly one hectare (10,000 m²). Each block had 37 floors, and each floor had 8 flats (i.e., a total of around 1,450 flats, and I guess not less than 4,500 residents). There was a car park underneath the apartment blocks (along with shops, restaurants, a wet market, and a 2nd floor playground). The wet market caught on fire once but that was put out fairly easily. But an EV fire in the car park lighting up other EVs would be catastrophic. EVs are a disaster waiting to happen, and places like Seoul and in particular Hong Kong are going to be Ground Zero for one of the worst fires we've ever seen.
You’re a fool! 25 ev fires per 100,000 cars, 1560 fires per 100,000 petrol cars. You’d better hope they get more evs in that car park, you’ll be a lot safer idiot.
The reason the insurance is ONLY 1.4 times a regular gas vehicle is because premiums on I.C.E. cars are being inflated to subsidize the EV insurance rates! You pay for this folly even if you refuse to participate!
Liberal and Labor voters are willing participants in the folly.
Uuuuhm the wonders of communism and fascism and other great ideas 🎉 centralised decision making from penetrated young leaders is bad
Lmao if only
And when they will figure out “advance fire fighting techniques” to suppress ev fires, we have to pay for it in higher parking fee, high price of apartment prices, rents
The biggest cause of fire in ICE vehicles is arson. The biggest cause of fire in EV's is spontaneous combustion.
The equivalent of an EV battery thermal runaway is the fuel in an ICE tank deciding to just burst into flames. How often does that happen....
sry for you that in your conty main cause of fire is arsen. In my contry main cause is people DIY, like audio systems without fuse, replacing fuses with nails. General stupididy.
Main thing to read out is cimpanzees exist in any nation. Anything is dangerous given enough stupidity to user.
It’s much worse than that! Listen and learn
And ironically the second biggest cause of fires and combustion vehicles is electrical failure😂
They "harmonize" the ICE fire data is the same way they "harmonize" the global temperature data.
How does the government plan to monitor the 80% charging limit? Honestly, we are being governed by complete morons.
We have had governing morons for decades, something needs to be done about it. Maybe an IQ test would help in a big way.
They'll just send an update to the chargers remotely that won't allow the charger to charge beyond 80%. You are right though we are being governed by incompetent fools but this change would be very easy to implement
every single EV charging network is operated by phone apps. they get charged for every single kwh. anywhere from the average 50 cents per khw to 70 cents per khw. the app monitors the charge rate the entire time, so it can adjust to the charging demand required. if its 80% or less, it gives the EV the fastest charging rate the station and the vehicle can do. at 80% the charge speed gets cut in half basically. oh and yeah. the app also monitors the heat of the charging cable as well, so if it gets too hot, when i should say, it then too, cuts the charge speed in half. all of your charging history and data is saved in the charging app that you use... point is.....they have all the means they need to monitor your EV's battery charge status. reminds me of the covid vaccine apps and passes. sticking a bug up your keester and painting it as a pretty picture with some horsesht reason that its the latest best idea the morrons have came up with lol
Your car talks to the manufacturers that in turn share everything with the government.
@@greyfox78569So basically no better than pulling up to a gas station
Imagine 300 EV's in an underground parking park? In the future you won't have to.
The mother of all fireworks displays.
That would cause REAL global warming!
It will save on the demolition costs for the building above it.
EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire than gas cars.
The data are public
Proposal: make the ev's parking lots near politicians and manufacturers. Let's see if they are comfortable with it
The underground carpark in Canberra, right beneath Parliament House, would make a fine place to park and charge EVs, and every politician should be required to own one! (That's a win-win in any situation!)
@@deniswauchope3788 required to own AND drive that instead of the bulletproof luxury V12 powered car they always use 😆
@@davefgs2399 Exactly! 😝
Coming to a carpark near you. How anyone could sleep in their house with one of these EV time bombs in the garage is beyond me.
I have a mach e nd im sweating
I'm also freaked out about all the small e-scooters and such devices stored in apartments. And I own one (a high-quality Swiss-designed one, which just had some fault in the battery develop which has reduced about 80% of its range...).
Out of my own nearly brand new, premium German brand relatively expensive EVs two out of three developed serious faults: One had its battery cooling system fail totally and needed massive repairs.
@@laceyunderall68 Apparently I can't comment on my other EV which developed a fault because RUclips censors it...what a messed up platform!
Yes…but low IQ and a corrupt establishment helps
They should jack up the price of ev insurance, but not for everyone.
Unfortunately, just like the electricity companies we all are paying higher rates because of EV'S.
They are already raising the insurance rates for EVs.
This will be RAAAACIST probably.
So premium will rise up for EVERYONE to compensate for more EV problems.
Property owner with garages will also pay more if EV are allowed to park inside.
And then someone else will come along and offer lower insurance on EVs because they've actually done the research and concluded that they catch fire less often lol
It might happen in a tunnel during peak hour.Its going to take a massive loss of life before the authorities do something serious.
Lets see them do a "Port Arthur"
But then the Marxist "Greater Good" ideal will take over in public policy. "Good omelets always requires smashed eggs."
Unfortunately they won’t do anything. Authorities don’t care about people. They care about their ideology or self interest.
This technology needs to be abandoned. It is not better for the environment and does not better for people and it is not a good technology
@@SH-ly1uy They spend much of 2021 onwards trying very hard to end us.
When are EV makers going to be sued by insurance companies or class action lawsuit
When the DFMEA indicated a likely occurrence of catastrophic fire as a risk of vehicle use, the Government had to provide the manufacturing organizations, relief from Civil Action. Therefore, the Insurance companies can't sue the BEV manufacturer, they have been given Government immunity
@@tjhessmon4327Where have we heard that before……Pfizer….
@@tjhessmon4327 There is no global government. China and US will likely try to protect its own companies but if they want to do business intenationally, they have to respect local governments too.
Yes Sue 🤑👹
They don't need to sue. They simply don't pay out.
Well who would have thought?
Imagine buying a car that has an estimated range of 300 mile and you can only use 60% since you can only charge to 80% and your not supposed to go below 20%, giving your roughly 180 miles of recomended use. What a joke.
In reality that is a 100 miles!
I think it would be better to limit the charge to a maximum of 0%
...they dont put gas in my car at a garage why should they put in power?
I bet they’d still spontaneously combust.
I think that even increase the risk of the cells going boom
@@TheBDD1970Because one produces volatile fumes while the other does not?
@@homeistheearthThat's what the bms is for
What's the point of 'maximum' range in sales ads if the standard recommendation is to never charge over 80%? So effectively, range ought never to be advertised at 100% charge as it goes against official policy...? Very deceptive.
They should also include loss for use of heater/air conditioning, lights and wipers to give true distance figures.
I guess you could charge it to 100% at home. Wouldn't park in the garage though
It's a rough estimate just like gas cars have a rough estimate of their range.
I would be interested to find out how they propose to screen EV battery charge when they turn up at the car park entrance. Assuming they can actually do this, you have to wonder how often you will see an EV driver say to his family "we just have to drive around the block 10 times to get rid of some of this excess charge".
LOL! And the EV fanboys will see nothing wrong with that at all. "EVs are such a joy to drive that it's fine to have to drive around the block for hours!" 🤣🤣🤣
Turn on the heater, the charge goes away fast.
I bet my left one the car transmits that info.
You do know the car communicates it's state of charge to the charger right?
Insurance companies are always in front of the curve.
This is all engineered.
Our personal transportation and movements are about to be dramatically reduced and controlled.
The end result was the goal from the beginning.
It's the Lizard people and their damned space lasers I tell ya.😆
In twenty years personal vehicles will be for the rich and famous only.
Only if you comply
Exactly, it was always a bait ‘n switch that results in 20min cities and digital lockdowns forever.
Best course of action is stick to your ICE vehicle! 🙄
or Nimh hybrid
And i'm sure that you are thinking that ICE age cars don't burn as much and are safer! Go research.
@@GF-mf7ml Are they still making those batteries?
@@GF-mf7mlNimh releases hydrogen
@@steve_is_my_nameThese people don't wanna hear facts bro
The trouble is that motor insurance companies will off set part of the high premiums for electric vehicles by increasing ICE vehicle insurance premiums. Watch out for this. My insurance company has denied this but my ICE premium has almost doubled in a year with no claims.
No doubt about it
Insurance is, for the most part, a scam, existing to collect premiums, not pay claims. But, the cost of vehicle replacement and repair has increased across the board, regardless of powertrain. So has medical treatment if there are injuries. Inflation is a thing.
@@Noah_Eexactly, eat healthy, fast 24 hours a week, and avoid processed foods.
Same thing with cars avoid EV and hybrids
hybrids also emit high em waves , cancer
The same goes with the rates charged for electricity. We are ALL paying more because of EV'S.
This is going to be as useful as DEI policies 😊
Its almost like some group want to destroy our society to make a great reset or something? But that would of course be a stupid and crazy conspiracy theory!!
Research The Caldecott Tunnel fire - a multi vehicle crash initiated by a drunk driver that involved a gasoline tanker - now imagine a tunnel full of nothing but EV‘s in the same situation - it will take one such event to force a ban of EVs from all tunnels, bridges, ferries, parking structures, etc.
It really doesn't matter how the fire starts as long as EVs are actually parked there.
Yes, this has been happening a long before there were EVs.
I don’t think you get it…try harder
I don’t think you get it…try harder
@@stuartedge5906 what?- whole car park levelled from a single initial car fire? I certainly can’t remember many cases over the last 20 years until recently
@@stuartedge5906
Just a EV metal fire is not easy to extinguish.
Sadly it’s gonna take a mass casualty before they do anything
Let's hope a few politicians are incinerated.
We're 13 years into this and there have been zero mass casualties while gas cars continue to burn.
@Luka_3D What a heap of deluded rubbish! Go and sip your soda pop and pay homage to Thunberg, the obnoxious goblin.
@@Luka_3D Chophead
@@a95569 Amazing argument mate. Did you learn that one in kindergarten?
So maybe 90% charge will make a 10% smaller toxic smoke cloud...
Good luck with that.
I wonder if the poor bugger in the lift (China) with his bike battery had it fully chanrged.
For ferrie services in the greek islands, the EVs aren't accepted if charge is greater than 40%. Then the EVs are positioned near the edge of ferry in order to quickly.dump them overboard if they start to smoke.
Actually...not ! The battery will burn entirely, regardless of its level of charging .
The stress of keeping the potential separate is in the membrane and electrolyte.
Well, this is you saying that a lead acid battery will do less damage if its unloaded/dead. The electrical energy in a battery cell is just electrons that are loaded and ready to run for their plus. The thing that burns arent the electrons but the electron-holding materials lithium/carbon/organics. The electrons only could accelerate the heat build up.
4 workers have DIED at NorthVolt EV BATTERY fabric in Skellefteå, Sweden. Volvos, Polestars owner.
Meanwhile no one mentions deaths on oil rigs and refineries lol
@@Luka_3D That’s like saying no one mentions how many people are electrocuted daily 🤣🤣🤣
Your comment was so dumb.
@@grahamdontcare8620 No you actually have a fair point. How many people die per given unit of energy produced?
Some hospitals in the UK now include banks of EV chargers. Worse still, some of those are located near doorways and are on the ground floor.
Just read the rivian plant and 50 evs are on fire in Illinois!
Get on that,Mguy!!
I'm seriously thinking of moving house as I have 1 next door neighbour with a TESLA EV and a BYD EV and on the other side is a Mercedes EV all being charged just a few feet from my house
Your neighbours will thank you.
I would move, you could lose your house or even your life if their cars catch fire.
Doesn't catch fire. You are getting overly paranoid. One in 10,000 does.. so there is also 1 in 10,000 chance of getting killed by a lightning also..
Why not put up a solid steel fence opposite the EV parking spots? And/or do other things in the fire safety space. Do you have an evacuation plan? Evacuation drills? Have you bothered or is it just easier to think about moving. And if you do move, will you check what the neighbours think about EVs before you buy? And how long they plan on staying and estimate their life expectancy?
Upgrade your sprinkler system..... and connect it to smoke detectors.
After all, there is no way to guarantee that the next place you move to that the problem won't follow.
Ev so green and safer eh?
The real world will wake up ?
Keep up the great work Simon.
All much appreciated.
Wake up to what exactly?
In Europe we don't have electricity so we get by today, so how will it work when everyone has to drive an electric car 🤔.In Germany, they have started demolishing wind turbines to access the lignite that lies beneath them, it is proven that lignite is more energy efficient than wind.
Meanwhile Finland didn't listen to certain parties which I can't mention negatively or I'll be censored on this platform: they just got a large new nuclear plant online and they're periodically seeing *_negative_* electricity market prices...
"In Europe we don't have electricity so we get by today"??? More Pearls of wisdom from klimatbluffen.
@@evfactsnotliesplease It started with a foundry founded in the thirteen hundred that had to close down when the United States blew up the gas pipeline.Then there are very many companies that leave Europe, especially in Germany . And it is due to a lack of energy, it cannot have escaped anyone that the Germans closed all their nuclear power plants and they have not replaced any of those reactors.
I live in Spain and we generate 105% plus of our electricity needs, do you want some??? Germany also closed all nuclear which is madness as these are the cleanest generators
The lignite (a pleasant name for huge areas with relatively shallow beds of low grade garbage coal) has to be dug out and safely diaposed of via specially designed power plants. This present low value agricultural land will then be sold on as high value property for residential and commercial development.
Well, if the state of charge of an EV battery has no effect on its ability to catch fire, this is an argument in favour of banning all EVs from underground car parks. In many places LPG cars are already banned so it should be easy to ban all EVs as well.
Why would you ban a safer vehicle though?
Left to burn, a Camry fire would burn itself out in about an hour.
A Tesla, on the other hand, would probably keep smouldering for over 24 hrs.
An engine fire in a petrol or diesel can usually be extinguished before the fuel tank gets involved.
It still amazes me that we talk about the dangers of EV fires but most people forget hybrids still run lithium ion batteries as well and when you consider that even e-bike batteries or even simple electronics today run lithium ion batteries which have shown to be just as deadly when they go into thermal runway you really have to question the logic of having these bloody batteries anywhere near any form of structure at all.
And many hybrids seem to have used a less than bright idea of putting the battery and a load of fragile cables in the spare wheel well in the boot.
Hybrids don't experience the rapid drains and charging of pure EVs. Less stress = less capacity degradation and lower chance of fires.
@@Noah_E yeah but they still run lithium ion batteries and like everything else that’s got lithium ion batteries they are still a threat and as they age they will pose more and more of a threat. It only takes some unseen damage or unseen battery decay from age or misuse for your pride and joy hybrid to turn into a massive fireball just like any other EV.
Below 50 Wh, a Li-Ion battery isn't a risk.
A phone battery is 4 V x 5 Ah = 20 Wh; it doesn't endanger life.
A drill battery is 20 V x 5 Ah = 100 Wh; it can be a risk to life.
An e-bike battery, 36 V x 20 Ah =720 Wh; is a clear and present danger.
@@Ray_of_Light62 doesn’t matter how small these batteries are of course they pose a bloody risk there’s enough stories of mobile phones catching fire and injuring people and looking at the fact they can still go into thermal runaway and expel toxic gas they can also cause death. Only had to google can mobile phones catch fire and it came up straight away about the fire risk and the fact you only have to leave a mobile plugged in to long and the battery can overheat and explode. You’re living in fairyland if you believe they don’t pose any danger.
Great reporting! Having some experience with Korea and Korean culture, my guess would be that the 90% charge limit is a way saving face by obfuscating the severity of the problem by the obfuscating reality and skewing public opinion in hopes this was fluke accident and will not happen again. Sort of like the findings in the infamous Korean airlines 007 incident, where after the B747 was intercepted and the captain realized his mistake of veering into Soviet Airspace, he turned off the Navigation lights, beacons, transponder and communications and flew deeper into thinking Soviet airspace thinking the Soviets would simply go away
I lived in an apartment building with underground parking in Ontario. There was NO place above ground that could be used for EV parking. So, now what?
An EV ban. Simple.
Now what? Simple, ban all EVs from your underground parking area, don't own an EV. After all, it would only take one resident's car to self-sacrifice and EVERYONE in that apartment building could end up homeless and without transport.... and that's only if they managed to get out of the place.
Time to buy a push bike.
I suppose that EVs could be parked in a concrete silo, equipped with supplemental oxygen feed to get as clean of a burn as possible. Scubbers on top, of course, to catch the nastiness.
Paper weight!
I’m scared to leave my lithium battery for my drill in garage Let alone an 80kw car battery omg world is gone bonkers
The only battery powered toy I have is a simple cell phone and I never leave it charging unattended.
There's a video of a phone sized battery pack bitten by a dog. Burns the dog bed, couch, room.
*Yawn* mine has been charging in my garage for the last 5 years. Am I missing something?
so lets be clear , the manufacture says dont run your battery to less than 20% , but you can only charge to 90% ; the range will be less , a lot less in reality , to the range claimed. LOL
Stack the battery shrinking after every use you won’t be able to leave your drive way after abit .
Always bring your gasoline generator on a trailer so your EV gets it's posted range!
It's a recommendation. You can charge to 100% and discharge to 0 without voiding your warranty.
Great 😊 information wow😂 this could get insanely much worse for all of us . Stop 🛑 no more Evs anymore 🇨🇦
Yep, where i go and do my shopping on the GC, they now have 6 EV charges in an undercover car park.
One of my brothers got a EV a year ago. I talked to him as calmly and reasonable as i could to at least park it in the open, not the garage. He only scoffed.
Now all i can hope is him and his family get lucky.
2:00 - As long as insurance companies ONLY increase the premiums for EVs and NOT apportion the cost across all insurance policies, MAKING EVERYONE PAY FOR THE DUMB DECISIONS OF EV OWNERS!
if people in government didn't get kickbacks from different industries most things would not exist, the money has to be taken away from government officials before there will be any change
Having a car charged to 90% is no different than 60% ... it's the HISTORY of HOW it has been charged that matters
Kinda agree to a point - but the 90% charge is a greater total energy ? and a greater I guess net potential difference within the battery?
No none of that matters. It's the fact that the battery itself is a time bomb and a very bad technology that matters
But when that car transport ship went down - weren't all the cars new and therefore had NO charging history?
@@Mady-lo6qb Yep but they do have to be charged at the factory to test them and to move them. I can't believe anyone shipping company would allows such dangerous cargo. They can literally just explode into flames while not charged or being used.
Just finished reading about an EV fire breaking out in a Rivian factory storage lot in Normal Illinois. A number of completed Rivians were destroyed.
This is a very Korean/Chinese type of response, 'we're doing something, so that's enough.' The fact that is totally ineffective does not detract from
the fact that they are loudly seen to be doing something... it's something... (that conveniently also relieves charging infrastructure and grid loading very slightly)
Insurers will likely be incentivised/bullied into spreading the risk across all car insurance premiums however with the potential liabilities associated with buildings coming down I don't think they will have any choice in becoming ever more stringent on EV parking or outright banning it in anything other than zero risk locations.
The cost of insurance will go up but would undoubtedly be spread across all policies. So essentially getting people with ICE vehicles to subsidise electric vehicle owners.
Yet again. Take away all subsidies and no EVs. Tesla would never have made it
Rivian truck plant in Normal, IL had an EV fire in the parking lot. Good times.
I don't about Australia, but here in the USA a lot of ICE fires are arson where cars are burnt after being used for crimes. Another large chunk are from collision and poor repair/lack of maintenance. They don't just burst into flame for no reason. They're also relatively easy to put out and stay out. EVs are the opposite. Self igniting and hard to extinguish.
Yep same .. arson
I saw a no maintenance Tesla parked at the shops last week. Unwashed and unloved, front tyres spraying wire. An accident waiting to happen in many ways. Normally the only Teslas I see are on tilt trays presumably broken down
Mercedes EQE did the exact same thing inside a garage in Florida.
the problem is the lithium batteries. hybrids with the same batteries will be no better.
It is not the energy released that is the problem. It is the instability of a fully charged cell, which can cause the thermal runaway. And with time separator degradation, cell imbalances, bad circuitry, etc.
EVs 😵💫😵💫😵💫🔥🔥🔥
Be careful charging in sunny weather too because if the battery coolant pump has a problem (even a simple software problem or a wire chewed through by a mouse) then the battery will probably go into thermal runaway and explode. Always park in the shade when charging!
No body wants to die in a huge car fire .how can you sue the manufacturer if your dead .
Stupid question. I just have to assume you're being dramatic. The surviving family would be the one suing. Really?
Yep, I don't wanna die in a fire. That's why I drive electric
@@Luka_3D You're not very intelligent are you? ICE fire is not more than 400 degrees, can be put out in about 15 minutes with about 300 gallons of water if it's a bad fire and there is little to no toxic run off. EV burns around 2500 degrees, can't be put out, releases toxic Li heavy metals and fumes... I mean, are you actually dumb?
So the two incidents were not fully charged but they come up with idea of reducing charge which had no effect on the two incidents.
It begs the question, what was the actual charge rate of the Mercedes in Seoul?
If it was less than 90% (likely as it was not charging), why is it even relevant to this event? It seems like a red herring.
It was actually parked for two days and wasn't being charged at all. It just decided to self combust.
@@Mikere5 Right. What was the charge level? If it was less than 90%, this proposed legislation becomes irrelevant.
Well done Simon 👏👏👏
I bet those statistics which already show EVs to be far higher risk are still massively flawed as they don't compare vehicles like-for-like and situations like-for-like. I suspect they compare all ICE cars to all EVs, which is incorrect comparison. ICE cars include far older cars, and their use and ownership is totally different, skewing the numbers massively. ICE statistics include 20-year-old cars owned by poor people, with neglected maintenance, kept in far worse neighborhoods.
In addition I suspect most ICE fires happen when being driven or with the engine on at least, meaning it's noticed quickly as opposed to EVs which ignite with no-one around.
Then add to that how those statistics probably include arson, vandalism etc. meaning it wasn't the vehicle itself which caused the fire. Those incidents affect ICE cars far more as they are more prevalent, especially in less wealthy areas. That further skews the numbers.
The second highest cause of combustion car fires is actually electrical system faults piston burner which is a funny irony isn’t it😮
I agree.
The sudden battery fires are caused by humidity infiltration into the battery casing.
Once the battery casing (or its gasket) is damaged by a pothole or a minor collision, humidity start infiltrating the casing. It may take days or weeks. After enough water is inside, the high voltage - commonly 1,000 Volt - start causing electrical sparks and damage wire insulation. In few minutes the entire battery explodes and the electrolyte burns, in turn lighting up the cathode (LiCoMnO2) and the anode (graphite).
Reducing the state of charge to 80 - 90% will not limit the fire starting ability of a battery. Only a SOC less than 10% would avoid a damaged battery catching fire.
A new law is required to reduce battery voltage to 48 Volt maximum. A water ingress sensor in the battery is not effective. Many traction batteries already have a dew sensor and desiccant filters.
Thank you for the video
Greetings,
Anthony
At 48v EVs of today would have a range of about 20 or 30 miles unworkable they had to go over the previous safe voltage to do it, and all without anything said, the last times electric vehicles were tried back in the 70s they gave up as it meant going over the then norm for safety of 48v Now there seems no limit 400v then 600v then 800v, Safe limit anyone?
All in a conductive steel bodyshell so in a battery to bodyshell short circuit that's a contact incident of lethal voltage, could be avoided by plastic composite bodyshells, but that would cost more would it not?
Dead EV batteries stored for 'recycling' have caught fire burning the premises to the ground and taking days to put out. So no EV battery is safe at any charge level.
Think about what tends to happen to old tech devices. Put away in a drawer, then a box, then the garage or or basement. Now think about where so, so many old EV bikes, e-scooters, etc. are going to end up. The garage, the basement, in a jumble at a thrift store, in a storage room at your kids’ school…
Yeah, it ain’t pretty.
Why would you leave your old ev in a basement?
Happy to hear that you are on the ball with the stats. I am looking forward to that video.
Aviation being such an expensive enterprise, is very sensitive to restrictive laws. Thus most aviation regulations are a result of massive loss of life. As such, aviation regulations are said to written in blood.
The general population is about to witness the same with EV’s.
A functioning BMS keeps the battery from overcharging so this is obviously a different issue causing the fires. Consequently, arbitrary SOC numbers will do nothing to mitigate the problem.
Until they devise non-combustible batteries, people should expect to park where the car poses less risk to others and property.
Funny say's 0 comments
We'll explained again thank you Simon
Old school diesel fitter 😅
GREAT FOR ENVIRONMENT
Remember Kids if you love your car don't park it next to an EV ! 😉
Not just EV car insurance but your home insurance will go up and your neighbors home insurance will go up and your mechanics bill will go up etc. etc.!!
Not how much charge is in a battery, but how much damage a single battery cell has inevitably suffered from getting too hot, is what's the real danger.
Inside a cell is a roll of sheet metal with a sheet of isolation in between.
They make this isolation as thin as possible, so more capacity fits in the cell. The isolation could melt, making a contact between the sheets of metal.
That's the start of a thermal runaway. The sheets of metal short circuit and heating up, causing more isolation to melt, and so on.
This can happen at very low charges. And there is no way of checking if a cell is damaged, than taking it apart, and checking it with thermal camera's.
Around 1998, I worked for a lithium ion battery maker, and the sudden combustion failures are known to us but it was hushed up. At that time , the biggest battery they made were for lap tops. The battery were enclosed in a titanium casing, I seen failures causing the casing to look like compressed air been pumped into it. I am not clear on what chemicals are in the gas released if the casing failed but I suspect it will not be healthy . The worse case scenario we expected would be a failure in an airplane cabin, but nothing happened while I was working there. I think the insurance will put the EVs out of business until they invent a better battery. Oh well, back to lead acid.
lifpo4 very safe alternative... not as powerful as lion... far better than la
Don't lead acid cells release hydrogen?
My neighbor bought a Tesla Model 3 and his insurance went up by three times. wow. Cheers. {This in Los Angeles.}
Electric scooters are not allowed to be carried on the Tube in London.
It is only a matter of time until electric cars are not allowed in car parks or allowed to be charged while parked near buildings or other vehicles.
I keep my ICE classic car in the garage. As most ICE car fires start due to electrical faults, I have an isolation switch fitted so it can be switched completely off, as I am paranoid about car fires. Lipo batteries in EVs, e-bikes etc scare the hell out of me, and until the next gen (iron) versions of Lipo arrive that have very low fire risk, I wouldn't touch even a hybrid with a bargepole. Maybe if the hybrid used NiMH batteries, but not Lipo!
Nicely explained Simon - the SOC level is just a sop to EV owners and is trying to make the poor 'others' in the apartment blocks to sleep more soundly.....
During my recent investigations, I found that home insurance companies are already asking about EV ownership, parking proximity to insured buildings, and charging location. They wouldn't ask if it wasn't a risk!
Thanks Simon. The answer is simple - ban all milk floats.
Thanks again for the info.
Maybe it is a good idea to mention ones (or more often!) that the problem is not only with full EV's but also with hybrids. To circumvent the inability to charge in an under (apartment) laying garage many people buy a hybrid because they think they have than no problem...
A question: How much of my insurance cost for my ICE is because of the EV craze? Don't you think the thermal runaway is caused by the chemical reaction of the materials in the cell not the electricity?
Insurance companies appear to be charging a lot more this year, even home insurance. Is this because of battery vehicles!!
It makes sense when you think about it. The capacity of a battery is the difference between Energy State A (no charge) and Energy State B (full charge). But those don't represent the total chemical energy in the system, just two positions the battery can reliably move between repeatedly. A LiOn battery has an energy density of 0.8 MJ/kg, but lithium metal has an energy density of 43 MJ/kg, more than 50 times that! So the battery charge only represents a tiny amount of the energy you can get compared to turning it into low energy ash.
Now, obviously a LiOn battery isn't pure lithium metal, but even at a tenth of that a battery with zero charge would have 80% of the kaboom of a fully charged battery.
It isn’t just the SOC, when fast charging, the battery will be hotter and balancing which puts stress on various systems that could be a catalyst for the battery shorting or running away…
Well it looks like it is now not profitable for lease companies to lease EV due to cliff-edge depreciation and now the insurance companies may find EV not profitable due to high repair costs and fire risks.
Something to think about... For those involved in any aspect of the radio control hobby, you know that LiPO batteries are the power source of choice, right? You also know that the hobby shops sell fire bags for the sake of charging your LiPO batteries in the event that they spontaneously combust. You're also supposed to charge them on a non-flammable surface, and many hobbyists store their batteries in an ammo can or other metal box.
Those of us who have been in the hobby for a while know it's not a matter of if but when a LiPO battery goes bad and starts to swell, or becomes unbalanced, or drops below minimum charge or is overcharged, gets damaged or even ruptured in a crash, or some other factor that damages the battery so that it's not safe to use and could catch fire. Incidentally, since it was mentioned speed charging lithium based batteries is very hard on them, it WILL reduce the lifespan of the battery, and it does increase the chances of a charging accident happening.
The question is if hobbyists are taking all these precautions with batteries ranging in size from about that of a human thumbnail to about the size of a pack of cigarettes (In other words very small), why aren't these precautions being taken with full scale EVs? Just because they're bigger and packaged better doesn't mean the hazards go away despite what these fucktard EV shills try to claim. I tried posting a video on another site showing what happens when these batteries get ruptured and catch fire. These batteries are pretty spectacular and violent when they self-combust, but of course by doing so had one braying jackass of an EV shill start harassing me because the battery was in an R/C car.
And to the EV shills going around to these channels to harass people, please let me know when you car goes up in flames... I promise I'll show up with marshmallows, hot dogs and beer. We'll make a party of it while watching that precious Tesla of yours turn itself into a pile of ash! Sound like a plan? LOL!
Do you know which chemistry most EVs use?
Fire risk goes up with a large super-charge, and the higher the final charge the higher the temps the battery has to deal with. Those temps are part of why it takes longer to charge the last 20% than the first 20%.
Can you imagine the potential financial liability that can happen if your car decides to self destruct?
I am sure the insurance companies are going to exclude secondary damage from their insurance coverage.
Even if you are a millionaire you could be financially wiped out.
I don't have to imagine it when thousands of ice cars are demonstrating what happens.
So I assume from this that charging stations in underground car parks is no go in Korea. And yet in Australia, we just keep adding them to car parks under buildings at a planet saving pace!
I saw today a village guy who teaches on-the-road mechanics (like the AA for instance) how to best carry out their job. He has taken a course in EV's and is now qualified to teach these also. However, after the course he feels that the dangers of FATAL electrocution, particularly in inclement weather, are not worth the risk as basically you touch wrongly and you die.
9:15 I suspect where the difference is is in propagation to other cells. At a low state of charge there is less energy to spread the fire, this effect can be visually observed with some piercing tests.
Basically the flatter the battery the less it plays dominoes.
All you need is a weak cell. They have higher resistance which makes more heat, that also requires more constant discharging and charging to balance that also happens especially charging towards the end when that cell is the weak link.
Ev insurance is high because of what insurance companies call "Total Loss Likelihood". Insurance companies are more likely to declare an EV a total loss after a crash due to the high cost of battery replacement.
Correction, insurance companies are more likely to declare a tesla a total loss because their service is dogshit
Thank you
Missed your honesty
WOW, what a wealth of really good info....
well could the vehicle manufacturer just alter the firmware to make a 90% charge be 100%?
Good video, thanks
Thermal runaway is thermal runaway. 10% won't make a blind bit of difference.
Can't stop progress regardless of whether it is realistic or not!
90% is not just about safety, but also about time. That last 10% takes about 3 times more time than the previous 10%. This is about shortening EV charging queues.
Ouch. I saw 17% EV premium for car insurance. I spent 5 weeks in Seoul and outer areas and you could not swing a dead cat without hitting a EV. Taxis and light trucks everywhere were EV in a large percentage.