Stoked that the Santa Cruz team that designed this bike was able to swallow their pride and step into greatness.... other brands need to take note... speaking of "stepping into greatness" Dear SRAM, can you find a way to do what you did to the bike industry with UDH but with "Universal Motor Mount"
Absolutely insane that you could bike the lowest end spec version of this bike or a 2024 Yamaha YZ250 dirt bike for the same price...The bike industry has lost its mind.
I've spent more on my 2 emtbs than my last 4 dirtbikes. 100% support MTB brands taking the samee aproach to cut costs (1 size- mens Large, 1 spec, 1 color, if you don't like it get bent). Anyway... VPP is pointless, Shimano is self destructing, SC is overpriced. Old news.
It's cool that they moved away from vpp. I guess what is hard for them now will be to undo all the marketing they sold the VPP on. Can we just agree that there is way too much marketing BS in this industry?
Why? VPP and four bar both have their own benefits. It is unique that they're selling bikes with both, but it's just not true that a four bar is "better" for every situation. Like he said, "horses for courses".
Some of the best bikes I have ever owned and still own are four bar horst link bikes (i have 3 horst link four bar bikes and a megatower) but personally I dont like that they are moving away from vpp. Its good to have different systems on the market. You can design a crap four bar and VPP bike so the suspension orientation is only half the story.
I can afford this bike, but why?? How is this bike so different that it justifies the cost? I could almost buy two e-bikes for the cost of this….almost. Absolutely ridiculous lack of value. Plenty of bikes that are 99.9% of this bike at half the cost. I used to be a SC fanboy, but no longer
no 700wh battery, $7500 for base model with garbage drivetrain 😂😂, 600wh is not enough bike industry going further down the rabbit hole. He said no cable ports on the high spec builds to save weight. What a joke
BS on the battery the 600 and the 800 are the same length but the 800 is a little fatter so it will not go up the high on the tube it would just make the tube fatter solution should have made the battery removable and let us pick the battery size. Just a thought.
I don't know about Norco, but if you value customer service and warranty high, I would always choose SC over YT or Canyon. I think SC bikes are good, and they might even be great with 4bar linkage. I own and have owned several YT and canyon bikes, so I speak from experience about the warranty. YT and canyon has been good at responding to my questions but bearings are a pain in the ass to replace with those bikes, just like most other bikes. with SC bikes it's atill annoying but it's less painful.
@@mikes.8305 I own 2 Santa Cruz bikes right now. I love the poppy nature of VPP. I have a Norco also and maybe I’ll just buy their new Ebike and save some cash
Actually the warranty is good on the frames with SC but on e-bikes they suck. I have the Heckler SL and of the many motor issues I have had SC was unwilling and unable to help get parts or move the process along. They also point the finger at Fazua and blame them even though it’s SantaCruz that made the decision to go with that motor system… idk. E-bikes SC have no more value than a canyon or YT running the same motor imo.
More of the same. It's disappointing to see Santa Cruz still insisting on making bizzililons in profits instead of making the gear affordable for the common man. A company that doesn't deserve to use the name.
So nda of the motor goes away then bike releases. So the power in the bike industry has already shifted to the motor makers. All the legacy frame makers are doomed.
Big mistake by Santa Cruz. The four bar is fine but there’s so many options out there with four bar. You buy Santa Cruz for vpp sorry that’s there MO and it’s not a vpp bike.
AMFLOW DJI took a massive dump on this EMTB even before it was released. Bigger battery, more powerful motor, better display, better looks, same weight…….. come on, a blind man can see this just doesn’t compare.
Clevis & Trunnion… seems they picked a bike out of a catalog and slapped their name and motor on it. I want it to be great but it’s hard to make those two shock specs play nice. Stiff with lots of lateral load, hope the alignment is perfect
I think potential buyers in the market now for any EMTB really have to think about whether or not they wait for DJI/AMFLOW. This is the downside of having these things cost so much. If I'm blowing 8K USD on a bike I would be willing to wait a year or more for the best one at that price point. If the cost of these things were cheaper then more people would be willing to buy more frequently, but that's just not the reality at the moment. The other issue is that the EMTB market becoming much more about the electronic tech in them then the geo / Suspension platform. So legacy bike maker that have built their brand on frame design and suspension kinematics are gonna have a rough go in the short term. I'll keep riding my non-electric mountain bike until DJI releases in the states I think. Not because I will buy the DJI , but because I think they've disrupted the market and the competition will have to respond.
Looking forward to your longer term review. I know you're not exactly a VPP fan (for good reason IMHO). Super curious if the new suspension setup on this bike solves the VPP problems you've previously identified without creating other problems. Thanks for your reviews.
Building around the motor is...interesting. As are the prices. As is the fact the Heckler full fat is similar in weight. Lots of glazing going on for this on all channels and I don't get it (I have 2x SC bikes for reference). This does seem to be the most honest impression I've seen so far though, TBF.
To be honest I dont get why they did this. So much of the brands intellectual property is the VPP platform. Is the bosch motor that important that they risk damaging their branding for? The hecklers and bullit look amazing. This bike could be anything. (For the record I have nothing against horst link bikes. I love that platform too)
From a shorter rider’s perspective, the lower link VPP was a no go. It significantly limits dropper post insertion. I had a gen 1 Hightower but went with a transition after that.
@@and2244rewdid you go with a Transition ebike? If so how is that Transition eBike doing? I have that company on my ebike list. I hear they ship directly to you, side stepping the dealer, for us mechanically enabled people!
@@and2244rewYeah that is def a drawback, even if if you are not particularly short. Selection is limited for “slammable” droppers for the size L bikes. Still I love VPP - I hope this is just an eMTB change, TBH.
SC uses a different battery than the one Bosch offers?, because, one of the key points in yesterday's launch was that the 600 and the 800 have the same length..the difference being in its thickness; so, how come in this non vpp SC, the 800 is longer than the 600?
Bike companies. Give us the option to just buy the frame. So we can use our own wheels, bar setup, suspension, etc. And I don’t want the $8000 “cheap” version because I don’t want a bunch of junk components I’m just going to strip off the bike immediately. And I don’t need to spend $13000 for a bunch of components I already own. 🙄🙄🙄
Any chance you're able to review the Yamaha moro 7? It seems like it might be the best deal on a mid power full suspension bike right now, especially with 2 batteries for under 2600
Loved my Santa Cruz VPP bikes over the years, and this still looks fantastic! Glad to see two separate adjustments for geo and progression now as well! Hoping to pick one up later this year 🤞
The weak point in this frame will be where the lower link connects. First time you get a rock in there during frame rebound it may crack the carbon fiber. The little mud flap in the back isnt going to offer much protection. Stoked…..but they needed something to compete with the KING of full power ebikes…the Orbea Wild
So as the industry has evolved and we’ve come to realize it’s not just one design better than another but more about implementation and the % values of anti squat, anti rise and leverage curve can reviewers start demanding those values from manufacturers so buyers can have an idea of how the bike will behave in comparison to others? Looks like this is a 4 bar with numbers relatively close to new gen vpp so it won’t be the 4bar bob as some others but also seeing other places of its anti rise values being low so is this going to be more active under braking than a new gen Bronson etc? Bike manufacturers never want to release these values it seems so it’d be nice for reviews to get full transparency on the bikes traits.
fork is a GRIPX2 in case you wondered well at least from one review I found because I couldn't find that info on SC site, feel free to correct if I'm wrong
Looks great that bike, good they are trying differents motors not just shimano on full powered ebikes, but hope they take in count DJI motor on the future
Feels like a bit of flacid release after dji pretty much blew there load over every e bike on the market and that also looks like bikes coming to market from much bigger brands will be feeling the re coil .
people who believe in the "reach" sizing method will want to take a hard look at the size chart around 5min15 notice for a size L it's now 477-480 reach I'm 6.0ft I'm supposed to have 457 it's not a Santa Cruz specialty most if not all manufacturers have lowered seat tube while increasing wheelbase stack and reach I compared the same bike of another brand all between 2018 and 2025 wheelbase increased by 70mm ! a 2025 S is larger than a 2018 L or even XL don't rely on your 5-10 year old bike if you're on the market for a new bike or you might end up with a bike your feel is too big for you (my case on my current L so I went 2025 M)
Reach based sizing just made it easier, riding style also changed with the advent of the dropper and modern geo. Old school "RAD" sizing is based off the old school pre-dropper riding style of hanging off the back of the bike. On modern geo you center up over the BB and the the steep seat tube moves your weight forward on the bike when seated.
seems like an excuse with 600 wh battery. Why not give us an option to choose? This is a trail bike bot a trekking bike, ... lol, well sorry us peasants can't have 10 bikes each
Bosch have said that the 800 Wh one is essentially the same module as the 600 one, so you just need to finagle the locking mechanism and 3D print a cover. Or just get the Focus Jam2.
Hmm, nice....just crazy seeing santa cruz with 4bar, specialized should be considered the best design ever....everything going full circle. 4bar seems all we really need.
For e-bikes and DH bikes maybe. Horst link still isn't the most efficient pedaling thing out there, VPP, DW, SI all pedal better. My analog bike is a horst link and it is smooth as butter going downhill, but I won't pretend it pedals like a DW link.
@@mrvwbug4423no what I meant the Horst link 4 bar was engineered back in early 1990’s…and look where we are now? I personally like the DW link best, but currently riding a Revel Rail..pretty similar to DW. I had a 2021 specialized stumpy, it climbs just fine.
As long as it doesn't have Transition's "ride quality". Transitions take big hits like a champ, but are quite chattery for horst link setups. I've ridden both the Repeater and the Spire and both are chattery on small bumps, my RM is like butter in comparison despite having 10mm less travel out back.
clearly they have gone with 4 bar because they needed Bosch in their life as Bosch sells and Shimano+Fazua can only get you so far in the market; it was probably imperative for them to be able to accommodate a Bosch motor, which is ok with me. I'd wish a little more honesty from them about this situation. Having said that, the geo looks great and, let's see about those prices.
There’s no denying that sales have been showing a very noticeable pull towards Bosch equipped bikes. So, yeah, brands were definitely feeling pressure to have a bike with Bosch and were happy that brands are also feeling pressure to reduce anti-squat numbers significantly as well! We can imagine this wasn’t an easy decision internally for the brand and applaud them taking the risk to come out with a different platform.
When I was shopping I was looking at a Specialized and asked about the motor reliability- “They’ve gotten better, pretty good now”. Then I asked about a Bosch equipped bike “Oh yeah, these are awesome!”
@@kingflynxi9420have you looked how the motor arrangement looks on the new crestline; you could put it horizontally and have a family dinner there; a 4 bar offers much more design space.
@@TheLoamWolfI almost, almost, reactivated my old pinkbike account, wanting to counter all the people who complained that this isn't a SC anymore..; because, they are the same who complained that SC does not have a Bosch bike and for that matter, they took their money elsewhere(or nowhere, being there just to complain about something). Me personally, I'll wait for that dji motor and battery get into some serious bike brands next year and then we'll see what's what!, if they are good enough to make control systems, motors and batteries to fly millions of drones in the air, surely they can make good enough tech for a bicycle. From what I read so far, their tech and approach is impeccable.
I’m kind of a SC fanboy. I like the way they handle and feel. The latests generations of VPP have been phenomenal for my style of riding. That said, I’m not married to VPP, especially after spending some time with a Sentinel. My biggest hold back is my lust for Factory suspension and the cost of entry for the higher spec’d models.
The comment about saving weight with t-type is bullshit, with t type you add weight where you don’t want it, right at the rear axle, compare a xo cable vs xo transmission and you’ll see, let alone the price increase
I should add… I was confused because you don’t cover the travel, the head tube angle or even explain what four bar even means. I had to Google it. Is it Enduro, trail, XC? You alluded to a lot of things but never nailed what type of bike this even is. I know what VPP is but I doubt many watchers will even know what that means. Thus, I’m sure a lot of viewers will be like me and just be confused over this bike. You can’t just say look at the chart… come on.
@@mikoyle pause at 5:21 for that. It's fine they didn't spend a lot of time on that. 4bar is used for every type of bike. It's better than VPP for most things imo, especially riding down.
Keeping my two normal MTBs (trail and park/enduro) and bought a dual sport Husky for $7800 (with 200 miles on it). Yes, yes, I know… not the same as an e-bike. But, I’m never going to pay that much for an MTB. I’m simply going to wait for the tech to improve and prices to come down drastically. With the Husky I just unlocked hundreds of miles of new trails rather than simply re-riding same trails with e-bike. Also, I’m still not ready to e-bike when I feel I need to maintain the cardio I get from my normal MTBs. Just my two cents.
VPP is counter-rotating dual pivot. 4 bar moves the second pivot to the rear of the chainstay. Then DW link is co-rotating dual pivot. The key difference is Horst link aka 4 bar doesn't have the same level of anti-squat as VPP or the energy transfer of DW. Horst however blows away the other two for small bump compliance and traction.
@@mrvwbug4423 1-bar is single pivot. 3 bar is a truss (a hardtail), although you can often get away with a 3 bar suspension bike by substutiting seatstay flex for one of the pivots that doesn't move very much. 4 bar is where the element carrying the rear wheel is not connected to the frame except through a pair of links that connect to the wheel carrier and your frame. That's the 4-bars: Wheel carrying element, the frame itself, and two links connecting them. It doesn't really matter if the links are long or short, or what direction they're rotating- it's still a 4-bar linkage. "VPP" and "DW link" are short-link 4-bar linkages. "Faux bar" looks like a horst link 4-bar linkage, but the element carrying the wheel is actually directly connected to the frame with a single pivot, and the rest of the linkage just drives the shock.
@@mrvwbug4423 Put another way, in VPP or DW, there's still a pivot on the chainstay....it's just closer to the bottom bracket than the wheel. I actually own a Horst, VPP and a DW link, and just ordered a "DW-link like" Bold Linkin. My VPP is 135 mm and seems to have better small bump compliance than my 150mm DW and close to as good as my 150 mm Horst.
MX is fine on ebikes, helps keep the bike somewhat nimble despite the weight. For analog bike give me full 29er any day, but for ebkes I find MX is fine, especially on e-enduro bikes.
Looks like a Transition.
Was looking for this comment. Looks just like my Repeater EP8...
Stoked that the Santa Cruz team that designed this bike was able to swallow their pride and step into greatness.... other brands need to take note... speaking of "stepping into greatness" Dear SRAM, can you find a way to do what you did to the bike industry with UDH but with "Universal Motor Mount"
UMM - let’s see if we can get some smart folks out there to create something for us!
Absolutely insane that you could bike the lowest end spec version of this bike or a 2024 Yamaha YZ250 dirt bike for the same price...The bike industry has lost its mind.
💯 the bike industry needs a pricing reset
Except that buy a KTM instead of a Yamaha… L O L
I've spent more on my 2 emtbs than my last 4 dirtbikes. 100% support MTB brands taking the samee aproach to cut costs (1 size- mens Large, 1 spec, 1 color, if you don't like it get bent). Anyway... VPP is pointless, Shimano is self destructing, SC is overpriced. Old news.
It's cool that they moved away from vpp. I guess what is hard for them now will be to undo all the marketing they sold the VPP on. Can we just agree that there is way too much marketing BS in this industry?
Yes, we can.
Why? VPP and four bar both have their own benefits. It is unique that they're selling bikes with both, but it's just not true that a four bar is "better" for every situation. Like he said, "horses for courses".
Some of the best bikes I have ever owned and still own are four bar horst link bikes (i have 3 horst link four bar bikes and a megatower) but personally I dont like that they are moving away from vpp. Its good to have different systems on the market. You can design a crap four bar and VPP bike so the suspension orientation is only half the story.
I can afford this bike, but why?? How is this bike so different that it justifies the cost? I could almost buy two e-bikes for the cost of this….almost. Absolutely ridiculous lack of value. Plenty of bikes that are 99.9% of this bike at half the cost. I used to be a SC fanboy, but no longer
Kind of silly to write off a whole bike brand based on one, eccentric (to say the least) ebike...
no 700wh battery, $7500 for base model with garbage drivetrain 😂😂, 600wh is not enough bike industry going further down the rabbit hole. He said no cable ports on the high spec builds to save weight. What a joke
BS on the battery the 600 and the 800 are the same length but the 800 is a little fatter so it will not go up the high on the tube it would just make the tube fatter solution should have made the battery removable and let us pick the battery size. Just a thought.
Like the new focus jam, it can take either size
forgot that but you're right...one of the novelties is that 600-800 have the same shape unlike previous gen which were shorter or longer
Not a pedal assist fan myself (you do you), but a huge Santa Cruz fanboy and if I were buying a pedal assist MTB today it would be an Amflow PL.
Same here! Im looking forward to seeing some USA based reviews when the AMFLOW bike hits our shores. DJI seems to be ahead of the competition.
I am psyched on AMFLOW. At least the hype.
But when is coming to the US?????
This kind of money for a throw away carbon e bike. Unreal.
Santa Cruz tax
Please tell me why I would buy this over a cheaper YT, Canyon , Norco etc that have been making 4 bars for years and years.
You wouldn’t. But Bay Area people with lots of money probably would. I’m not sure they are after your money?
I don't know about Norco, but if you value customer service and warranty high, I would always choose SC over YT or Canyon. I think SC bikes are good, and they might even be great with 4bar linkage. I own and have owned several YT and canyon bikes, so I speak from experience about the warranty. YT and canyon has been good at responding to my questions but bearings are a pain in the ass to replace with those bikes, just like most other bikes. with SC bikes it's atill annoying but it's less painful.
SC's frames, warranty and quality are next level
@@mikes.8305 I own 2 Santa Cruz bikes right now. I love the poppy nature of VPP. I have a Norco also and maybe I’ll just buy their new Ebike and save some cash
Actually the warranty is good on the frames with SC but on e-bikes they suck. I have the Heckler SL and of the many motor issues I have had SC was unwilling and unable to help get parts or move the process along. They also point the finger at Fazua and blame them even though it’s SantaCruz that made the decision to go with that motor system… idk. E-bikes SC have no more value than a canyon or YT running the same motor imo.
I had a VPP heckler, it was super harsh on chunk. SC is now just making another mass market bike but still charging their premium prices.
This is not proportional chainstays but size specific. Forbidden is the only company that offers proportional rear centers.
Looks like they pulled this off a rack in Taiwan
More of the same. It's disappointing to see Santa Cruz still insisting on making bizzililons in profits instead of making the gear affordable for the common man. A company that doesn't deserve to use the name.
It looks like someone slapped a Santa Cruz decal on a specialized
So nda of the motor goes away then bike releases. So the power in the bike industry has already shifted to the motor makers. All the legacy frame makers are doomed.
Big mistake by Santa Cruz. The four bar is fine but there’s so many options out there with four bar. You buy Santa Cruz for vpp sorry that’s there MO and it’s not a vpp bike.
AMFLOW DJI took a massive dump on this EMTB even before it was released. Bigger battery, more powerful motor, better display, better looks, same weight…….. come on, a blind man can see this just doesn’t compare.
Not really. Smart system is still better in terms of quality of life, brand integration etc, and the system weight is now comparable to DJI
Issue is product support, warranty and long term help.
Clevis & Trunnion… seems they picked a bike out of a catalog and slapped their name and motor on it. I want it to be great but it’s hard to make those two shock specs play nice. Stiff with lots of lateral load, hope the alignment is perfect
I think potential buyers in the market now for any EMTB really have to think about whether or not they wait for DJI/AMFLOW. This is the downside of having these things cost so much. If I'm blowing 8K USD on a bike I would be willing to wait a year or more for the best one at that price point. If the cost of these things were cheaper then more people would be willing to buy more frequently, but that's just not the reality at the moment. The other issue is that the EMTB market becoming much more about the electronic tech in them then the geo / Suspension platform. So legacy bike maker that have built their brand on frame design and suspension kinematics are gonna have a rough go in the short term. I'll keep riding my non-electric mountain bike until DJI releases in the states I think. Not because I will buy the DJI , but because I think they've disrupted the market and the competition will have to respond.
Very solid points and thanks for sharing.
Looking forward to your longer term review. I know you're not exactly a VPP fan (for good reason IMHO). Super curious if the new suspension setup on this bike solves the VPP problems you've previously identified without creating other problems. Thanks for your reviews.
Building around the motor is...interesting. As are the prices. As is the fact the Heckler full fat is similar in weight. Lots of glazing going on for this on all channels and I don't get it (I have 2x SC bikes for reference). This does seem to be the most honest impression I've seen so far though, TBF.
To be honest I dont get why they did this. So much of the brands intellectual property is the VPP platform. Is the bosch motor that important that they risk damaging their branding for? The hecklers and bullit look amazing. This bike could be anything. (For the record I have nothing against horst link bikes. I love that platform too)
From a shorter rider’s perspective, the lower link VPP was a no go. It significantly limits dropper post insertion.
I had a gen 1 Hightower but went with a transition after that.
@@and2244rewdid you go with a Transition ebike? If so how is that Transition eBike doing? I have that company on my ebike list. I hear they ship directly to you, side stepping the dealer, for us mechanically enabled people!
I've never had that issue and I'm short.
@@and2244rew
@@and2244rewYeah that is def a drawback, even if if you are not particularly short. Selection is limited for “slammable” droppers for the size L bikes. Still I love VPP - I hope this is just an eMTB change, TBH.
The first Santa Cruz I actually like
SC uses a different battery than the one Bosch offers?, because, one of the key points in yesterday's launch was that the 600 and the 800 have the same length..the difference being in its thickness; so, how come in this non vpp SC, the 800 is longer than the 600?
It's not longer, they kept the downtube thickness in line with 600wh as the 800wh is thicker
@@kingflynxi9420yeah, didn't heard the part where they said they wanted a slimmer down tube. I'll erase this post. cheers.
I'd want 800
600 and 800 battery is the same lenght. Can't take the guy seriously if he gets so many things wrong...
Bike companies. Give us the option to just buy the frame. So we can use our own wheels, bar setup, suspension, etc.
And I don’t want the $8000 “cheap” version because I don’t want a bunch of junk components I’m just going to strip off the bike immediately.
And I don’t need to spend $13000 for a bunch of components I already own.
🙄🙄🙄
It's surprisingly similar to my relay
I wonder if the bullet will use this same motor and linkage? The one I saw last winter was definitely VPP…
I wonder if they'll continue with Heckler and Bullit at all.
I'm not into e-bikes (yet 😅)
...but that looks like a very sweet bike.
160mm cranks on all sizes is a nice touch
It’s like they made a 4 bar just for Drew 😅
Ha ha ha. 🤷♂️
Any chance you're able to review the Yamaha moro 7? It seems like it might be the best deal on a mid power full suspension bike right now, especially with 2 batteries for under 2600
Mid
Loved my Santa Cruz VPP bikes over the years, and this still looks fantastic! Glad to see two separate adjustments for geo and progression now as well! Hoping to pick one up later this year 🤞
The weak point in this frame will be where the lower link connects. First time you get a rock in there during frame rebound it may crack the carbon fiber. The little mud flap in the back isnt going to offer much protection. Stoked…..but they needed something to compete with the KING of full power ebikes…the Orbea Wild
Best looking Santa Cruz I've seen. Shame it priced like a Santa Cruz though.
So as the industry has evolved and we’ve come to realize it’s not just one design better than another but more about implementation and the % values of anti squat, anti rise and leverage curve can reviewers start demanding those values from manufacturers so buyers can have an idea of how the bike will behave in comparison to others? Looks like this is a 4 bar with numbers relatively close to new gen vpp so it won’t be the 4bar bob as some others but also seeing other places of its anti rise values being low so is this going to be more active under braking than a new gen Bronson etc? Bike manufacturers never want to release these values it seems so it’d be nice for reviews to get full transparency on the bikes traits.
So SC does a horst link. Wonder how much of it was creating space for the new motor vs the better ride quality of horst vs VPP.
fork is a GRIPX2 in case you wondered well at least from one review I found because I couldn't find that info on SC site, feel free to correct if I'm wrong
So bummed this is an MX dedicated bike, instead of having the option of full 29er and MX
Looks great that bike, good they are trying differents motors not just shimano on full powered ebikes, but hope they take in count DJI motor on the future
They should have used the bosch 800 that came out with the CX.
We personally like the 2lb lighter bike weight and option to run a range extender.
@@TheLoamWolf fair one.
I personally don't think weight saving is significant enough to warrant not using the new 800.
They went away with VPP? They found out it's a pain in A$$ to service the shock? 😂
Feels like a bit of flacid release after dji pretty much blew there load over every e bike on the market and that also looks like bikes coming to market from much bigger brands will be feeling the re coil .
It’s almost over and you haven’t told me what the travel is front and rear…
Why they trying to hype up a bike that looks like an old norco range and sight i wouldn't pay for that old style .
Basicaly a Pivot Shuttle AM with a smaller battery 🤔
👎🏾to specialize. And to reliant on wireless tech.
people who believe in the "reach" sizing method will want to take a hard look at the size chart around 5min15 notice for a size L it's now 477-480 reach I'm 6.0ft I'm supposed to have 457
it's not a Santa Cruz specialty most if not all manufacturers have lowered seat tube while increasing wheelbase stack and reach I compared the same bike of another brand all between 2018 and 2025 wheelbase increased by 70mm ! a 2025 S is larger than a 2018 L or even XL don't rely on your 5-10 year old bike if you're on the market for a new bike or you might end up with a bike your feel is too big for you (my case on my current L so I went 2025 M)
Reach based sizing just made it easier, riding style also changed with the advent of the dropper and modern geo. Old school "RAD" sizing is based off the old school pre-dropper riding style of hanging off the back of the bike. On modern geo you center up over the BB and the the steep seat tube moves your weight forward on the bike when seated.
@loamwolf is there motor drag from the motor when going downhill?
shame
Which part are you not excited about?
Does the new motor have over run like the Gen 4 race?
As the saying goes.. “it looks like a Rail” 😮
Nice! It looks like my Rail😂
looks like my 2022 enduro
seems like an excuse with 600 wh battery. Why not give us an option to choose? This is a trail bike bot a trekking bike, ... lol, well sorry us peasants can't have 10 bikes each
Kinda surprised they didn't use the 720wh the orbea wild uses.
@@jdmbeaner182 new motor uses 600/800, different battery design
You can choose - buy it or don’t
@@In_dependent got it. Yea the 800 would be overkill for 90% of rides.
Bosch have said that the 800 Wh one is essentially the same module as the 600 one, so you just need to finagle the locking mechanism and 3D print a cover. Or just get the Focus Jam2.
Hmm, nice....just crazy seeing santa cruz with 4bar, specialized should be considered the best design ever....everything going full circle. 4bar seems all we really need.
For e-bikes and DH bikes maybe. Horst link still isn't the most efficient pedaling thing out there, VPP, DW, SI all pedal better. My analog bike is a horst link and it is smooth as butter going downhill, but I won't pretend it pedals like a DW link.
@@mrvwbug4423no what I meant the Horst link 4 bar was engineered back in early 1990’s…and look where we are now? I personally like the DW link best, but currently riding a Revel Rail..pretty similar to DW. I had a 2021 specialized stumpy, it climbs just fine.
The motor is more quiet. It does not rattle. The whiny noise will allways be there.
Why does everyone keep saying “more quiet”. ‘Quieter’ is the word you’re looking for.
Why do the standover heights go down as the size get larger, and up as the size gets smaller? Makes no sense at all!
So the heckler is going to be no longer, only the heckler SL?
From what we were told, this is only an addition to their emtb line.
Nice repeater but with better motor
As long as it doesn't have Transition's "ride quality". Transitions take big hits like a champ, but are quite chattery for horst link setups. I've ridden both the Repeater and the Spire and both are chattery on small bumps, my RM is like butter in comparison despite having 10mm less travel out back.
This is a great looking Trek Rail 🙃
Except the Rail has split pivot not horst link.
that flappy left elbow :)
Juniper branches ain’t forgiving!!
clearly they have gone with 4 bar because they needed Bosch in their life as Bosch sells and Shimano+Fazua can only get you so far in the market; it was probably imperative for them to be able to accommodate a Bosch motor, which is ok with me. I'd wish a little more honesty from them about this situation.
Having said that, the geo looks great and, let's see about those prices.
Crestline did it with the new motor lol
There’s no denying that sales have been showing a very noticeable pull towards Bosch equipped bikes. So, yeah, brands were definitely feeling pressure to have a bike with Bosch and were happy that brands are also feeling pressure to reduce anti-squat numbers significantly as well!
We can imagine this wasn’t an easy decision internally for the brand and applaud them taking the risk to come out with a different platform.
When I was shopping I was looking at a Specialized and asked about the motor reliability- “They’ve gotten better, pretty good now”. Then I asked about a Bosch equipped bike “Oh yeah, these are awesome!”
@@kingflynxi9420have you looked how the motor arrangement looks on the new crestline; you could put it horizontally and have a family dinner there; a 4 bar offers much more design space.
@@TheLoamWolfI almost, almost, reactivated my old pinkbike account, wanting to counter all the people who complained that this isn't a SC anymore..; because, they are the same who complained that SC does not have a Bosch bike and for that matter, they took their money elsewhere(or nowhere, being there just to complain about something).
Me personally, I'll wait for that dji motor and battery get into some serious bike brands next year and then we'll see what's what!, if they are good enough to make control systems, motors and batteries to fly millions of drones in the air, surely they can make good enough tech for a bicycle. From what I read so far, their tech and approach is impeccable.
No Santa Cruz Influencer misses the VPP. They are so enthusiastic about Horst Leitners system. The brand's funeral!
I’m kind of a SC fanboy. I like the way they handle and feel. The latests generations of VPP have been phenomenal for my style of riding. That said, I’m not married to VPP, especially after spending some time with a Sentinel. My biggest hold back is my lust for Factory suspension and the cost of entry for the higher spec’d models.
00:50 "They're known not to have a lot of durability issues" Is this guy drunk?!?
The comment about saving weight with t-type is bullshit, with t type you add weight where you don’t want it, right at the rear axle, compare a xo cable vs xo transmission and you’ll see, let alone the price increase
The bike is confusing.
I should add… I was confused because you don’t cover the travel, the head tube angle or even explain what four bar even means. I had to Google it. Is it Enduro, trail, XC? You alluded to a lot of things but never nailed what type of bike this even is. I know what VPP is but I doubt many watchers will even know what that means. Thus, I’m sure a lot of viewers will be like me and just be confused over this bike. You can’t just say look at the chart… come on.
@@mikoyle pause at 5:21 for that. It's fine they didn't spend a lot of time on that. 4bar is used for every type of bike. It's better than VPP for most things imo, especially riding down.
Keeping my two normal MTBs (trail and park/enduro) and bought a dual sport Husky for $7800 (with 200 miles on it). Yes, yes, I know… not the same as an e-bike. But, I’m never going to pay that much for an MTB. I’m simply going to wait for the tech to improve and prices to come down drastically. With the Husky I just unlocked hundreds of miles of new trails rather than simply re-riding same trails with e-bike. Also, I’m still not ready to e-bike when I feel I need to maintain the cardio I get from my normal MTBs. Just my two cents.
E bikes………
VPP IS a 4-bar linkage. This is just a Horst Link 4-bar.
VPP is counter-rotating dual pivot. 4 bar moves the second pivot to the rear of the chainstay. Then DW link is co-rotating dual pivot. The key difference is Horst link aka 4 bar doesn't have the same level of anti-squat as VPP or the energy transfer of DW. Horst however blows away the other two for small bump compliance and traction.
@@mrvwbug4423 1-bar is single pivot. 3 bar is a truss (a hardtail), although you can often get away with a 3 bar suspension bike by substutiting seatstay flex for one of the pivots that doesn't move very much. 4 bar is where the element carrying the rear wheel is not connected to the frame except through a pair of links that connect to the wheel carrier and your frame. That's the 4-bars: Wheel carrying element, the frame itself, and two links connecting them. It doesn't really matter if the links are long or short, or what direction they're rotating- it's still a 4-bar linkage. "VPP" and "DW link" are short-link 4-bar linkages.
"Faux bar" looks like a horst link 4-bar linkage, but the element carrying the wheel is actually directly connected to the frame with a single pivot, and the rest of the linkage just drives the shock.
@@mrvwbug4423 Put another way, in VPP or DW, there's still a pivot on the chainstay....it's just closer to the bottom bracket than the wheel. I actually own a Horst, VPP and a DW link, and just ordered a "DW-link like" Bold Linkin. My VPP is 135 mm and seems to have better small bump compliance than my 150mm DW and close to as good as my 150 mm Horst.
Way overpriced.
Too expensive. Forcing people in MX only bikes is stupid. Small battery is dumb. This bike is a miss.
MX is fine on ebikes, helps keep the bike somewhat nimble despite the weight. For analog bike give me full 29er any day, but for ebkes I find MX is fine, especially on e-enduro bikes.