agree, because it's exhausting and infuriating to see people downplaying and ignoring the shit out of anti-transmasc transphobia [or as I refer to it as transandrophobia] in favour of uplifting trans women in the most fucked up ways
The Cass review was intended to justify a policy the government wanted to impose, not to inform a policy decision with an unbiased examination of the issue.
oh thank you so much for talking about the absurdly high rate of sexual assault/rape of afab trans ppl. ive gotten shut down by both trans women & cis women for pointing this out. we still have a huge problem with thinking of women as the only people who regularly receive sexual aggression
and somehow afab trans ppl getting assaulted either is taking something away from the validity of trans women's identities (???) or proves that we (afab trans ppl) are really just women (-_-)
100%, it is infuriating to see how readily some people who are trying to get the word out about their own suffering, turn around and silence other people who have been put through that same hell and are just trying to also be a part of the rising chorus, in the efforts to change things. I hope things improve, and seriously hope that you stop receiving this treatment from the people who should be standing with you.
Yes Luxander, thank you! This is actually the first time I've heard that. I would have assumed trans women have the highest rates of sexual assault victimhood
I used to work at Amazon, qmd I got the job shortly after coming out as nonbinary. My job was to pick items out of shelves and put them in bins. This book was one of those items one day. I remember being disgusted that I had to even touch it. Hi! 👋🏽 My Patreon membership failed, I don't know why.
UK trans man here, I can confirm that they change your NHS number without even telling you this is a thing, and without a Gender Recognition Certificate Your medical history does get copied over though, so it's not lost But I had to randomly turn up to a hospital to prove I was entitled to NHS coverage one day and was very confused. Bought all my documents and shit, but when I sat down they took one look at me asked where I was born, I said the city we was literally in right now (as in the name) and they went cool bye. Didn't even need all my documents, found out later it was cos my NHS number was changed with getting on hormones
I remember receiving a phone call from the admin team at my GP surgery about 11 years ago when I changed my name. I was explicitly asked if I wanted to go ahead with changing my title, because it would require me being issued a new NHS number. This was several months before starting hormones, (I went to a private consultant) and about 8 years before my first appointment at the GIC.
However if you have are awaiting an initial hospital consultant appointment (they dont have to be trans related), changing your NHS number can sometimse reset your place on that waiting list. I changed my NHS number way back in 1992 they didnt copy previous medical history, didnt discover that for number of years. That is changed now but it still occasionally happen.
Ive always been baffled by the "transfems have it harder" idea cause this topic kinda drives home precisely why comparing oppression in "less bad vs more bad" just winds up flattening and ignoring so much of the actual problems. Every minority group is oppressed in their own way, and each of these makes people suffer and struggle in ways that they wouldnt without that oppression, and the idea of one being worse than another only serves to undercut intersectional efforts to actually help everyone and put an end to such oppression. Ive lived a life of experiencing wildly varying forms along the various intersecting aspects of myself, and all i can really say is that it all sucks, and all breaks you down and tears you apart in its own way.
There's some awful pun here about "oppression Olympics" (where people compete at having the most struggles, trauma, whatever, and gatekeeping those who they see as struggling less than themself)
Also, in regards to getting puberty blockers for precocious puberty... That wasn't the case for me and it isn't the case for many AFAB people here in the UK. Puberty being early for "girls" doesn't matter. It isn't upsetting or traumatising or alienating, because who cares about little girls! Certainly not doctors! Unless there's a clear, visible detriment to bone growth (mineral depletion etc), or the parents are rich and able to complain, doctors will let precocious puberty run its course. No, only little boys get puberty blockers here in the UK.
Cass Eris does an extremely in-depth review on "that book" and it's excellent for those who haven't seen it. You'd likely have some additional perspectives and insights that would be interesting to add. Just... only if it's something you want to do and not at the cost your mental health. I don't think I could read that book lol
If anyone needs a source on the SA rate being higher for AFAB nonbinary people and trans men and mascs - see page 205 of the US transgender survey 2015. "Experiences also varied across gender, with transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificate (58%) being more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in contrast to transgender women (37%) and non- binary people with male on their original birth certificate (41%).. Among transgender men and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificates, rates of sexual assault were higher among people of color, particularly American Indian, Middle Eastern, and multiracial people"
The phrase "I'll just take Irreversible Damage to bed with me" is hilarious out-of-context..."But that's exactly what we're afraid of!" these idiots will shout. :( As for whether it's a good idea to read it and review it on your channel: if it's still being cited and used as ammunition against gender-diverse people, it's still relevant. The "Doctrine of Discovery" is still being used as legal precedent in the U.S. and elsewhere for depriving Indigenous people of their rights in myriad ways, and it's over 500 years old, and it is a good idea to read and understand what is being used as legal justification for such things (which, in the case of the "Doctrine of Discovery," is a theological statement by a religion not held, at least according to the First Amendment in the U.S., with any particular favor or affirmation by the federal government, and yet...!). If oppression is given justification by citation of any source from any period, looking at said cited sources is evergreen content in the fight against such oppression. ;)
Lux, if you do review Irreversible Damage, I recommend you look at Cass Eris' multi-part series on it as a cognitive scientist & building upon that from the perspective as a trabs person.
Cass Eriss (www.youtube.com/@CassEris/videos) has a very involved review and fact check on "Irreversible Damage" (and is starting one on Shrier's next book, that seems to hate all of psychology) Taking a look at that series might be a better use of your time, but I certainly don't want to say trans and Non-binary people can't add their own takes on this. It does kind of blow my mind that the Cass report can be so open about its biases, yet people latch on to it. Its generally not etherical (nor really possible given the physical changes) to do double blind studies on hormones so outright stating in the opening you are ignoring things that are not double blind should be a tacit admission the report is garbage. But as my trans-friends point out, its about hate and feeling smugly superior, not science.
Terfs: my poor lost lesbian sister what did these evil trans "wemon" do to you me a flambintly gay trans man: sure Jan 😂 (I only found out trans was a thing when my childhood friend dated a trans man lmao)
Cognitive psychologist Cass Eris (fun coincidence) here on youtube has a series where she goes through irreversible damage and conbs through its citations, tearing Shrier to shreds for bad science. I highly recommend it, Cass Eris is wonderful- and certainly much more qualified than discount cass who recommended transphobia to her fellow clinicians.
I have to disagree with what you say, the report is not clearly transphobic, it’s written in a way that’s smart enough to fool people at first glance, it’s only if you read the sources that you realise how deceptive it is and the recommendations would seem like casual reforms but I would suspect they intend to put anti-trans people in charge of the regional offices. I think the fact there’s only a few NHS trans clinics in the UK has made it easy to vent complaints, I’ve heard of people talking about specific doctors on Reddit and people being able to collaborate the claims. I have come across anti-trans people training for NHS jobs so I think the communication is important
I do not recommend taking Irreversible Damage to bed with you. It's more of a middle-of-the-day read in my opinion. But, ya know, do what you want. I'm not the boss of you.
Oof. I just realized there's not a single trans man in our friend group. There's a dozen plus trans women (several of whom are close family friends). There's many people who were AFAB who present socially as non-binary (including my spouse). But not a single trans man. Please forgive the ignorant question - are trans men just much more rare than trans women?
there was a recent VERY large survey,and transmen&transwomen were not that different %(35% transwomen, 25% transmen, rest of % were NB). there was quite a difference between afab and amab NB people as far as % goes. this was the 2022 USTS(Early Insights: A Report of the 2022 U.S. Transgender Survey) . and ofc,that is only for people who reside in areas under US legislation and for people ages 16 and up. you can look it up and see the methodology numbers etc yourself.
I think perhaps they are more often stealth? I think it may also have to do with age demographics, most of the younger trans men I know identify somewhere on the enby spectrum while the older trans men I know almost all identify binarily. And I personally believe that split in binary vs nonbinary identity has a lot to do with acceptance and a decrease in the rhetoric that you must "fully medically transition" to actually be a man/woman. There are I think a lot of cultural factors that result in skewed visibility of trans men and nonbinary people of any persuasion
Unfortunately, from my POV it's because we're stealth, or not welcome in trans spaces to go out and make trans friends. Many groups here in the UK are just for trans women and AFAB enbies (specifically those who still lean femme). Trans men, transmascs and AMAB enbies who aren't femme enough are often treated as "other" or dangerous for being men. This applies to online as well. The r/traaaaaaans subreddit and other major trans subreddits are dominated by trans women, who ignore trans male/transmasc posts and frequently alienate us by lamenting how evil testosterone is. (This isn't to say trans women all hate trans men. Just my experience is that trans women dominate the narrative completely and don't think trans men and mascs need to be involved.) We have our own subreddits for this reason. Likewise on Tumblr (where most of us like to hang out it seems), baeddels (trans women who hate trans men) used to flood our tags with anti-transmasc inflammatory content. It wasn't fun. We're made to feel like we're not welcome, so after a while we stop showing up.
I'm running a fundraiser to flee a red state: gofund.me/cedce734
Abigail was right in one respect: her book really was irreversible damage.
genuinely so refreshing to see people not ignoring or downplaying anti-transmasc transphobia for once
agree, because it's exhausting and infuriating to see people downplaying and ignoring the shit out of anti-transmasc transphobia [or as I refer to it as transandrophobia] in favour of uplifting trans women in the most fucked up ways
I'm a trans woman, and I know way more trans men than trans women actually. I see the anti-masc transphobia too, it's so disheartening.
It's transphobia and misogyny (despite us not being women), and as Lux said infantilisation of AFAB
^^Definitely rooted in misogyny, infantilization can potentially affect anyone perceived as feminine.
Ok groomer
The Cass review was intended to justify a policy the government wanted to impose, not to inform a policy decision with an unbiased examination of the issue.
oh thank you so much for talking about the absurdly high rate of sexual assault/rape of afab trans ppl. ive gotten shut down by both trans women & cis women for pointing this out. we still have a huge problem with thinking of women as the only people who regularly receive sexual aggression
and somehow afab trans ppl getting assaulted either is taking something away from the validity of trans women's identities (???) or proves that we (afab trans ppl) are really just women (-_-)
100%, it is infuriating to see how readily some people who are trying to get the word out about their own suffering, turn around and silence other people who have been put through that same hell and are just trying to also be a part of the rising chorus, in the efforts to change things. I hope things improve, and seriously hope that you stop receiving this treatment from the people who should be standing with you.
Yes Luxander, thank you! This is actually the first time I've heard that. I would have assumed trans women have the highest rates of sexual assault victimhood
Breaking news: known terf likes the terf book
I used to work at Amazon, qmd I got the job shortly after coming out as nonbinary. My job was to pick items out of shelves and put them in bins. This book was one of those items one day. I remember being disgusted that I had to even touch it.
Hi! 👋🏽 My Patreon membership failed, I don't know why.
UK trans man here, I can confirm that they change your NHS number without even telling you this is a thing, and without a Gender Recognition Certificate
Your medical history does get copied over though, so it's not lost
But I had to randomly turn up to a hospital to prove I was entitled to NHS coverage one day and was very confused. Bought all my documents and shit, but when I sat down they took one look at me asked where I was born, I said the city we was literally in right now (as in the name) and they went cool bye. Didn't even need all my documents, found out later it was cos my NHS number was changed with getting on hormones
I remember receiving a phone call from the admin team at my GP surgery about 11 years ago when I changed my name. I was explicitly asked if I wanted to go ahead with changing my title, because it would require me being issued a new NHS number. This was several months before starting hormones, (I went to a private consultant) and about 8 years before my first appointment at the GIC.
@@WolfgangDoW ok groomer
However if you have are awaiting an initial hospital consultant appointment (they dont have to be trans related), changing your NHS number can sometimse reset your place on that waiting list. I changed my NHS number way back in 1992 they didnt copy previous medical history, didnt discover that for number of years. That is changed now but it still occasionally happen.
Ironically, a different Cass (Cass Eris) made a 14-part RUclips series debunking Irreversible Damage sentence-by-sentence.
Took me forever to get thru the videos because the contents of the book are exhausting but definitely a great break down
Correction: Cass Eris made a *brilliant* 14-part review.
Ive always been baffled by the "transfems have it harder" idea cause this topic kinda drives home precisely why comparing oppression in "less bad vs more bad" just winds up flattening and ignoring so much of the actual problems. Every minority group is oppressed in their own way, and each of these makes people suffer and struggle in ways that they wouldnt without that oppression, and the idea of one being worse than another only serves to undercut intersectional efforts to actually help everyone and put an end to such oppression. Ive lived a life of experiencing wildly varying forms along the various intersecting aspects of myself, and all i can really say is that it all sucks, and all breaks you down and tears you apart in its own way.
There's some awful pun here about "oppression Olympics" (where people compete at having the most struggles, trauma, whatever, and gatekeeping those who they see as struggling less than themself)
Further, how these things affect people are very individual. 2 people suffering the same treatment can react in vastly different ways.
i am shooketh, shooketh i say
Also, in regards to getting puberty blockers for precocious puberty... That wasn't the case for me and it isn't the case for many AFAB people here in the UK. Puberty being early for "girls" doesn't matter. It isn't upsetting or traumatising or alienating, because who cares about little girls! Certainly not doctors! Unless there's a clear, visible detriment to bone growth (mineral depletion etc), or the parents are rich and able to complain, doctors will let precocious puberty run its course.
No, only little boys get puberty blockers here in the UK.
Cass Eris does an extremely in-depth review on "that book" and it's excellent for those who haven't seen it.
You'd likely have some additional perspectives and insights that would be interesting to add. Just... only if it's something you want to do and not at the cost your mental health. I don't think I could read that book lol
If anyone needs a source on the SA rate being higher for AFAB nonbinary people and trans men and mascs - see page 205 of the US transgender survey 2015.
"Experiences also varied across gender, with
transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with
female on their original birth certificate (58%) being
more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in
contrast to transgender women (37%) and non-
binary people with male on their original birth
certificate (41%).. Among transgender
men and non-binary people with female on their
original birth certificates, rates of sexual assault
were higher among people of color, particularly American Indian, Middle Eastern, and multiracial people"
The phrase "I'll just take Irreversible Damage to bed with me" is hilarious out-of-context..."But that's exactly what we're afraid of!" these idiots will shout. :(
As for whether it's a good idea to read it and review it on your channel: if it's still being cited and used as ammunition against gender-diverse people, it's still relevant.
The "Doctrine of Discovery" is still being used as legal precedent in the U.S. and elsewhere for depriving Indigenous people of their rights in myriad ways, and it's over 500 years old, and it is a good idea to read and understand what is being used as legal justification for such things (which, in the case of the "Doctrine of Discovery," is a theological statement by a religion not held, at least according to the First Amendment in the U.S., with any particular favor or affirmation by the federal government, and yet...!).
If oppression is given justification by citation of any source from any period, looking at said cited sources is evergreen content in the fight against such oppression. ;)
Lux, if you do review Irreversible Damage, I recommend you look at Cass Eris' multi-part series on it as a cognitive scientist & building upon that from the perspective as a trabs person.
Cass Eriss (www.youtube.com/@CassEris/videos) has a very involved review and fact check on "Irreversible Damage" (and is starting one on Shrier's next book, that seems to hate all of psychology) Taking a look at that series might be a better use of your time, but I certainly don't want to say trans and Non-binary people can't add their own takes on this.
It does kind of blow my mind that the Cass report can be so open about its biases, yet people latch on to it. Its generally not etherical (nor really possible given the physical changes) to do double blind studies on hormones so outright stating in the opening you are ignoring things that are not double blind should be a tacit admission the report is garbage. But as my trans-friends point out, its about hate and feeling smugly superior, not science.
I watched all of those videos and it is shocking what Abigail has to say. I knew that her words were going to be bad, but it was worse than I thought.
let's say I would much rather hear about the encyclopedia of country living
Terfs: my poor lost lesbian sister what did these evil trans "wemon" do to you
me a flambintly gay trans man: sure Jan 😂
(I only found out trans was a thing when my childhood friend dated a trans man lmao)
Ngl we would love it if you made a review of Irreversible Damage
You receive a new NHS number post first diagnosis, again not to be conflated with GRC.
Cognitive psychologist Cass Eris (fun coincidence) here on youtube has a series where she goes through irreversible damage and conbs through its citations, tearing Shrier to shreds for bad science. I highly recommend it, Cass Eris is wonderful- and certainly much more qualified than discount cass who recommended transphobia to her fellow clinicians.
Surprise ! The worst people love the worst literature
🦄🌻💖
I have to disagree with what you say, the report is not clearly transphobic, it’s written in a way that’s smart enough to fool people at first glance, it’s only if you read the sources that you realise how deceptive it is and the recommendations would seem like casual reforms but I would suspect they intend to put anti-trans people in charge of the regional offices. I think the fact there’s only a few NHS trans clinics in the UK has made it easy to vent complaints, I’ve heard of people talking about specific doctors on Reddit and people being able to collaborate the claims. I have come across anti-trans people training for NHS jobs so I think the communication is important
I do not recommend taking Irreversible Damage to bed with you. It's more of a middle-of-the-day read in my opinion. But, ya know, do what you want. I'm not the boss of you.
Oof. I just realized there's not a single trans man in our friend group. There's a dozen plus trans women (several of whom are close family friends). There's many people who were AFAB who present socially as non-binary (including my spouse). But not a single trans man.
Please forgive the ignorant question - are trans men just much more rare than trans women?
there was a recent VERY large survey,and transmen&transwomen were not that different %(35% transwomen, 25% transmen, rest of % were NB). there was quite a difference between afab and amab NB people as far as % goes.
this was the 2022 USTS(Early Insights:
A Report of the 2022 U.S. Transgender Survey) . and ofc,that is only for people who reside in areas under US legislation and for people ages 16 and up. you can look it up and see the methodology numbers etc yourself.
I think perhaps they are more often stealth? I think it may also have to do with age demographics, most of the younger trans men I know identify somewhere on the enby spectrum while the older trans men I know almost all identify binarily. And I personally believe that split in binary vs nonbinary identity has a lot to do with acceptance and a decrease in the rhetoric that you must "fully medically transition" to actually be a man/woman. There are I think a lot of cultural factors that result in skewed visibility of trans men and nonbinary people of any persuasion
you probably just don't hang out in the same spaces as the average trans man
Unfortunately, from my POV it's because we're stealth, or not welcome in trans spaces to go out and make trans friends. Many groups here in the UK are just for trans women and AFAB enbies (specifically those who still lean femme). Trans men, transmascs and AMAB enbies who aren't femme enough are often treated as "other" or dangerous for being men.
This applies to online as well. The r/traaaaaaans subreddit and other major trans subreddits are dominated by trans women, who ignore trans male/transmasc posts and frequently alienate us by lamenting how evil testosterone is.
(This isn't to say trans women all hate trans men. Just my experience is that trans women dominate the narrative completely and don't think trans men and mascs need to be involved.)
We have our own subreddits for this reason. Likewise on Tumblr (where most of us like to hang out it seems), baeddels (trans women who hate trans men) used to flood our tags with anti-transmasc inflammatory content. It wasn't fun.
We're made to feel like we're not welcome, so after a while we stop showing up.
@@CiCodiCadno perfectly said and absolutely true
Algorithm cl🎉
surprised-pikachu-face.png