Keep hearing maximum security yet a convicted killer not only murdered a guard but was able to transport a whole body unseen.I’m sorry bite mark or not this case stinks cover up.
Agreed, in those days it was not unknown for corrupt guards to lock a hated prisoner in a cell with someone who had a grudge, in Australia, some prisoners would be found to have committed suicide in their cells, years later it came out that some inmates had been hung by other prisoners with the green light of guards who assisted by opening the cell. Also, items like a large enough garbage bagto wrap a body isn't something a prisoner would be let to walk away with, assuming the prisoner had access to the kitchen or yard duty, they're supposed to be searched for contraband before leaving those areas, so who procured that & how did not a single guard not see someone lugging around a huge wrapped up body, so suss.
I’m w/ the sister. A guard or someone who worked at the prison was involved also. She had way too many enemies in the prison. Yes, it may be very true that the prisoner committed the crime, but someone else was involved in it, too.
As a Private Investigator I believe Prison guards were involved they used the inmate to cover up..... Remembered a guard was selling drugs inside as well
The guards killed her period you idiots. The guards were selling cocaine in the prison and bringing prostitutes to the inmates, which means they were no different than the inmates they were guarding. The victim's sister did not say that she thought the inmates were involved. She knew who killed her sister.
With or without her death, they need to do a complete overhaul of the staff and policies at the prison. Get officials in there, investigate all the guards. Too many criminals in guard uniforms.
She was going to file a sexual harassment but “thought better of it”? As in, she came to her senses and decided not to file because it would have been a bad idea? That’s a weird way to phrase it
so much sexism and racism in the old narration. the way sex workers are portrayed on FF is shameful as well. FF2 is doing a much better job of this tho
She didn’t know if the charges would hold up and she knew a lot of things about the prison and the guards they didn’t want out in the public. She knew that if she filed the lawsuit she’d be attacked and threatened by everyone
I think one of the guards purposely gave access to Lamuel so that he kill her and they wouldn't have to worry about her snitching. The shit reaks of of a set up.
He was already given access he shouldn’t have had, so I hope Donnas family sued the prison, that knew, or should have known, Smith needed to be locked up, like he is now, not given special privileges! The psychiatrist told them so! Com’mon people!…✌🏼🇨🇦
One of the inmate’s mistakes was to talk about the “doctored” bite marks. Never try to fill in the blanks on your own. It does more damage. I will say it is very suspicious that this happened coincidentally right at the time she was having problems with violent male prison guards.
I've seen a case where a suspect was convicted because he had the same bite impressions as the killer....he was then vindicated by DNA The bite mark is not enough to convict Lamuel
It's possible the guards approached Lemuel and said, "if you want to keep your freedoms, you'll do this" Lemuel even admitted to his shrink that he would do his crime again if let out, that he "couldn't stop".
You're wrong, no two people have the same bite pattern. It's all how the impressions are compared to the suspects bite pattern that things go wrong. Even if the bite mark was deemed circumstancial, sometimes jury only needs circumstancial evidence to convict someone. In my opinion you should have 3 forensic odontologists examine them independently and come to a conclusion then.
If one of the guards didn't kill her, then the guards put an inmate up to it. With a yard full of murderers, it wouldn't have been hard to find a willing participant.
Complete set up! What prisoner has that much freedom? The guards definitely did it. Almost all the investigators look for the easy answer and will never accuse one of their own
Yeah I totally agree. When he defended himself it was very convincing. Not to mention that even they admitted that only prison guards would have that freedom and ability and motive!!
Also, a paranoid schizophrenic was organized enough to do all this? Bite marks are terrible evidence. But a bite mark after a day in a trash compactor and garbage dump is ridiculous. That seems like an easy set up. Make it look like one of the crazy inmates.
This case just screams “police cover up”. Like am I the only one who’s suspicious that this woman went through the trash compactor and got run over with a bulldozer, and this bite wound was somehow so clear and usable?
This is the first time that I had my doubts about the outcome. Forensic Files may have gotten this one wrong. This is also one of the first times that Forensic Files had an episode conclude with so little evidence. Just seemed like Forensic Files wants us to believe something that didn't happen the way they said it did. Even the sister didn't believe it happened that way. This stinks a cover up. Forensic Files lost a little credibility with me. There's little to know "forensic" evidence here.
Agreed. They have to provide more evidence then jut a bit mark. Those prison guards were criminals themselves and never investigated to the extent they should’ve been
I'm really torn on this one. If I was on a jury and all of this was presented to me, I wouldn't be able to return a guilty verdict on the inmate. All they really have is the bite mark and that evidence isn't compelling enough to me to cover the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement. I think ultimately I agree with the sister - the other guards were somehow responsible. However, I DO think if the inmate did it, he wouldn't admit it. He had too many freedoms.
@johnson oney not the point. Just because he's killed 2 other women don't prove he killed Donna. only that he killed the other 2. Plus she went through a TRASH COMPACTOR AND got RUN OVER by a BULLDOZER. To be honest I don't see how that can happen and the so-called bite mark still be CLEAR enough to identify it AS A bite mark at all much less his. Also no he didn't want parole he told the therapist to make sure he "NEVER gets out because I'll do this again" I won't say he DIDN'T do this one too but base on the evidence given I can't convict him either. Plus you have multiple other CO's doing illegal shit that they knew Donna would have blown their cover over if she had a reason to do so. ANY of them could have done this and they would have had as good a motive as he supposedly had
@@LotusStitchandSketch Yes the point. He had already been proven to be guilty on those other murders with his bite mark. I always wonder about people who defends criminals 🙄 Are they one of them? How weak!
Aw this monster killed two women and now people are looking at him as a victim? These kind of weaklings make me sick. This mnster im self has more honesty than those defending him here. He killed Donna because he did not have access to another woman for him to keep doing what he himself seid cannot stip doing; murdering innocent women. You defending this POS should open your doors to this criminal 😅 Such an angel on earth you are awwwww🙄👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@johnson oney You are the one who shouldn't be on a jury with your ignorance. Just because he committed the earlier crimes does not mean he committed THIS crime. And bite mark evidence has been proven to be inaccurate on multiple occasions. Maybe go read up and watch more true crime and you'd know these things.
@@ivonned32 Good God are you ever dumb! Another Mother who should've swallowed and spared humanity their offspring... Talk about being weak AND selfish! 🙄🙄🤦♀️
this is really hard to decide, the criminal says he is innocent, while the crime is just how he has done it before, they guards could have been pissed because their racket was being exposed, all of this has happened before. ugh
Yeah, I agree with you. Also, those corrupt guards would know about this guys “modus operandi”, they would know about many of the killers crimes and they could set it up - I mean, if they were really keen who knows what lengths they would go to.
Reading many of the comments I believe mine will be similar. The guards (certain ones) would have had much easier access to do this. The guards would also know which inmate they could easily pin it on simply by "copy catting" the previous crime of an inmate. The inmate accused would certainly be the easiest. The guards knew he had more freedom, had the office to himself that day and certainly know what the inmate was in for and how he did his crime. I'm sure the guards have access to inmate files so they would know about the bite mark and in the file would likely be photos of his bite impression. Would be very easy to fake a bite mark, a screw driver pressed into the skin at just the right positions would make it easy. And why only the bottom bite impression? In order to make that bad of a bite mark there would need to be something for the top teeth to bite to put that much pressure on the bottom jaw. And this inmate, even if he did kill her, would have to be crazy to actually leave bite marks on her. Yeah I'm 80/20 on this one, 80% on the side that one or more guards did her and framed the inmate. This happened in the early 1980's so DNA wan not yet perfected. I believe had they collected and saved "rape kit" samples back then they would now be able to match it to someone.
🤦♀️ Sometimes it IS just how it looks. Your scenario is as likely as 👽 aliens being the guilty party. As a matter of fact I’d believe the aliens did it versus this elaborate plan involving guards, a screwdriver..etc.. You have a great imagination tho.😂
Even if DNA testing had been available back then, by the time Donna's body was found, she'd been in the trash truck and the landfill. Any DNA they might've found would've been contaminated and useless. As a female I have to say I think it's a bad idea for there to be female corrections officers at an all male maximum security prison. It is a recipe for trouble; rape of the corrections officer, overpowering of them in an attempt to escape from the prison, etc. Female corrections officers should be assigned to guard female prisoners, and male corrections officers assigned to guard male prisoners.
He’s obviously guilty. How exactly would the guards have been able to frame him? They would not have had any access to the body after it was found. There’s no way logistically they could have framed him.
Let's make a deal and Good ol Boys are still running the show. Poor Donna...Someone had a snaggletooth and a vengeance. The same thing happened with Bundy. His crooked ass teeth didn't help his case, but helped close it. When I see these photos of dead victims, it makes me wanna cry.
The guards were in on this, especially since she was marked for standing up for herself. 23 hours a day in solidarity confinement...isn't this illegal?
I have seen most of these episodes IF not all……but I keep watching them no matter what because they were really good. I don’t know what has happened to the new Forensic Files II which were on TV, but now they have “disappeared” from television. I don’t know IF they are still in the making of Forensic Files II, or if these shows have been discontinued. Let’s hope that they return to TV again.
Never think twice about a sexual harassment lawsuit/reporting of a crime. If you don't, they'll believe what they do is A-OK and that you are nothing. STAND UP! FIGHT BACK!
When a criminal gets caught, he does not think to himself, "What I did was wrong and I won't do it again." Rather, he says to himself "I made a mistake in my crime and next time I will do it differently." First step towards any form of sobriety, one must admit one is the problem. Same with chemical dependency, violent criminals will never change unless they can see that they are the problem. and not societal laws. There isn't a pit big enough to through these people into.
This case can go either way. I don’t put it past a fellow guard or the criminal. We all know once cops get an idea in their mind of who’s guilty, you have to move heaven and earth to prove otherwise.
I agree. While I'm not saying he COULD'NT have done it I'm not entirely convinced that he did do it either. Based on all the illegal shit going on with the other guards, I do think it is entirely possible that it could have been a guard that did this and then it got blamed on him as a cover-up. Unlikely? yes but impossible? no.
I'm inclined to believe there's much more to this case. It would be tough for me as a juror to come back with a guilty verdict, knowing the body had been compacted in a garbage truck and then run over in the landfill. That in itself could have created all kinds of marks on the body. On top of all that, what about the prison guards " Let's make a deal " with the prisoners scheme. I'm not siding with this convicted killer either. I'm trying to figure out why he wasn't put to death on his previous murders, let alone giving him to much freedom in prison, because he's a model prisoner. This guy should have been JUICED in the ELECTRIC CHAIR.
exactly where I stand. too many questions on this one for me. plus a little too convenient for the other guards doing all the illegal stuff. Donna could have got every one of them fired had they given her a reason to. Which they of course knew. Could he have done it yes, but to me on this one it sounds more like they jumped to conclusion too quickly and didn't really investigate it enough to be certain. Too many other people with motive, access and opportunity in my opinion.
This is THE COMMENT!!!!! Like once ppl start pulling the veil back on illegal doings within rank you can believe the whistle blower is a target! So her death is not shocking. And i also agree Lamuel should have been laid to pasture by that second death at the very least! The fact that he was even still lawfully alive to be a suspect is BEYOND ME! But yea this case stinks!
this is definitely a complicated situation for me because these "professionals" who work in institutions such as jails/ prisons/ nursing homes etc can definitely mislead a vulnerable population into thinking that it's ok to reach out to them on a certain level !! it's extremely painful and confusing when boundaries are crossed in these type of settings !! because even when a inmate or a client DOES ask if it's ok to reach out they can and STILL will get rejected just because of their status !!!!
Why are there no cameras in a Supermax prison? That’s the main thing that irritates me. Outside of bathrooms there shouldn’t be an inch of space that’s not covered by a cameras eye.
I’ve watched this twice. The first time I believed the guards framed this criminal. This time around, I don’t think so. It’s not just the exact type of murder but it’s also his pattern. He thinks a women is his friend if she shows any interest in him. He makes her a gift. This was the case with the girl he murdered. When she rejected his advances he killed her. This looks to be the same scenario. Donna befriended him, took an interest in his wood working, likely he thought she was his friend, and she was interested in him making her a wooden box. Then when she rejected him, he killed her. Same pattern of behavior and same type murder. And the exact bite mark with the exact missing tooth. I don’t think that can be duplicated. I think it just worked out for the dirty cops that he killed her.
1st of, the pattern is not exactly the same, the supposed "bite mark" (it didnt look so much like one to me) was at a different place. 2nd, he admitted to the other murders but not this one. 3rd, the gards had access to his pattern and could have mimicked it.
what about an alibi? no camera? i just think that even if a judge wouldn't believe a prisoners alibi then what about the other guards? you can carve out bite marks...you can't be in two places at once...
Donna should not have been behind closed doors with this evil monster. He had too much freedom in the prison. Great forensics with the bite mark evidence. Condolences to the family REST IN PEACE DONNA
No way that's a bite mark...where is the top bite pattern...in that location I fail to see how anyone would do that type of wound with only the bottom set of teeth...most likely scenario guards killed her dumped the body and those injuries were all caused by impactor and the prosecution saw something that wasn't there a bite pattern so went after one guy...I mean the dude confessed to his other crimes what does he achieve pleading his innocence now if he is guilty..nothing other than the fact he didn't do it
Because having killed a prison guard inside a prison, makes him the absolute most dangerous prisoner. His life will be 23 hour solitary confinement until he can convince someone he was framed. Isolation like that is pure mental torture.
@@officerahmo Yep after all the shit he’s done, he’d definitely deserve it if he did this one too. Wouldn’t it be pretty similar to the experience of locked-in syndrome? You can see and hear and feel everything but you can’t speak and you can’t move. A prisoner in the hole can move around a bit but they’ve got zero stimuli. They can talk but what’s the point if no one can hear them? Just the idea of it makes me cringe. “Oh crap! I’ve been a bad girl again! Let me go breathe in nothingness in a dark room until I literally start to hallucinate”. But I guess OP doesn’t see that as a motivation to deny crime if he did it.
he was framed. I loved how they inverted the bite marks in the two known picture to make it look like one in the guard. no one bites inside out or inverted. those prints they showed would've had to be curved to the right not the left. the guard did it
There are some inconsistencies here. A bite mark that survived the crushing of a bulldozer. The victim had beef with her own coworkers who labeled her a "snitch." There were multiple failures in this incident. This is ONLY known case of this happening? Nah this smells of a set-up.
The fact that the bite mark was the only piece of evidence, the only thing tying the dude to the case doesnt sit well with me. he was an easy escape goat
I hope there will be reopening of the case ... but still, i don't know if lemouel is still alive as of today... it's shocking that donna has no friend in her work that could speak up for her or have noticed irregularities. When she got lost, they didn't inspect the trash or warn the garbage management facility to freeze the recebt garbage collection. 😒 its just so weird
@@windsorgrandave3135 as far as i can recall there is no findings abt semen not even mentioned if they found any due to the manner the body is found, deeply contaminated and wretched due to bulldozers and other vehicles used in the garbage dump site. The only criminating factor is the violent sexual assault and the bitemarks.
There was another episode about a fire supposedly started by a mother and her infant boy was killed in it. One of the fire experts said that it could be a problem if a fire was assigned to an arson expert because an arson expert would be “looking” for an arson. The fire expert penned a letter calling the arson investigator's report "junk science". We did not know all the evidence associated with this case but one would ask a question from a layman's perspective when seeing the pictures of the 2 victims' 'bite marks". The bite marks on the nose of one of the victims clearly showed 2 rolls of red spots but the picture of the prison guard had only one very dark and distinct single roll. A deep bite mark by the bottom roll of teeth could be made with the absence of the marks made by the top roll of teeth? Was that question answered during the trial? It was answered but not shown by this video? This is not about whether they had the wrong killer but just a simple question from a layman. The video did not present all evidence. It may not have told the story in the best possible way. A lot of details were not presented probably due to the time constraints of a TV show.
Most times when a prisoner Murders someone whilst in prison , they don’t remove the body from the facility…. Just like the sister said when has that happened that intricately before our sense ?
As opposed to how many times a guard has murdered a fellow guard and smuggled the body out of the prison? And he didn’t exactly “smuggle her out”. He put her covered in a trash can and someone else took the trash out.
@@LotusStitchandSketch What does how many times something has happened say about who was responsible? You could interchange the suspect and point to the same thing and say the same thing. A guard could be arrested and you’d say “No prison guard has killed someone inside a prison and then moved the body out, therefore it must have been a group of guards.” You could go arrest five more guards and say “No group of guards has ever moved a murder victim outside therefore it had to have been an inmate.” All we’re doing is pointing at something weird and saying “that’s weird” but it isn’t actually evidence of anything.
@@trickortrump3292 All I'm saying is that something is not right with this. This whole thing smells wrong. I'm not saying he didn't kill her but I know full well there was at least one guard in on it if not multiple. Plus look at how long she was missing. How is a C.O. going to be missing like that but yet no one realizes it until evening RC???? If you work at a MAX SECURITY prison you're not going to just disappear like that for any length of time and it not be noticed. If you're not where you're assigned to be when you're assigned to be there THAT IS NOT GOING TO NOT BE NOTICED. They knew something was not right they just didn't care enough to take it seriously until after the fact. After they knew she'd been killed then they decided they cared. I'm thinking more likely that he is guilty of killing Donna but he had help in the cover-up and removal of her body from one or multiple guards who also had a reason to want her gone
I agree with Cassie Black. When an inmate kills someone inside an prison they want everyone to see it and know about it! Its their badge of honour so to say. 🏅
This is a man thats serving not 1 but 2 life sentences thats he's already admitted to too, so I wouldn't do him any good to deny this 1 I truly believe he didn't kill her the way he said" I hope she get justice for her sister" spoke volumes to me!!
i think he might be innocent but that remark means nothing to me lol. any narcissist would lie about that. the only thing is how does the bite mark match if he is innocent?
Something is wrong with you people At the age of 16 admits to 1 murder (done at age 16- admitted to but was not convicted) and then commits 3 different rapes of women. Was convicted. Went to jail for only 4 years. Was released. Came out and only a month or so after being released committed 3 brutal murders 2 of the victims had been brutally raped. (4 murders 5 violent rapes) Then he had attempted to lure a 22 year old woman out of store where she worked. She refused so he violently attacked and tried to use her grandmother as a hostage to lure the woman outside. His efforts were thwarted when help arrived and he knocked said grandmother unconscious and deliberately stomped on her hand as he fled. Committed another rape and murder (5 murders 6 rapes) before he was apprehended after kidnapping another young woman and raping her (7 rapes). Police were able to apprehend him without incident (because he's a rapist and a pussy doesn't have the balls to try and fight the an able body man) as she was being forced to drive him to Albany New York. People on here trying to defend someone who has been both suspected and in most of the cases convicted of having done 5 different rapes & murders of women and also raping 2 other women who were fortunate enough to not lose their lives at the hands of this scum bag.
nobody's trying to defend him, of those other crimes he did commit, but there is literally no evidence against him in this case. Bite mark "matches" (not just these but ALL bite mark evidence) have been legally deemed as being "incorrect most of the time" and scientifically deemed "not meeting the requirements of a forensic science".
The guards who killed her _purposely picked_ a violent murderer to blame Donna's murder on. And I guess it worked on you, it looks like you fell for their plan.
I totally agree with you. There are some really stupid people in this world and they are not afraid to run their mouths. Maybe the guards looked the other way and let it happen. They should have to answer for that. But it is quite obvious this guy did it and should not have been given the chaplain gig
CO’s are some of the most corrupt people and detrimental to prisoners…they are in a state of power and authority, but CO’s are also at high risk for something like this. I feel horrible for her family and for Donna. So sad.
agreed I think at the very least they were in on it even if they didn't do the deed themselves. Was probably a guard who dumped her in the trash bin not him. I find it VERY HARD to believe that ANY inmate convicted of ONE murder (much less 2) would EVER be allowed to be alone with ANY guard for ANY REASON PERIOD.
I think the Lemuel did it, but I also think the guards allowed him to do it. They wanted Donna dead, but didn't want to get their hands dirty so they allowed her to be murdered by Lemuel, I don't know if they paid him to do it or convinced him that Donna liked him, but whatever the case they were for sure involved in Donna's murder.
I would bet you $5000 right now that that man did not kill that lady, someone who worked at that prison killed her.. And now this man who works so hard to become a better person lost the tiny bit of freedom he had and has to be on lunch now 23 hours a day for the rest of His life, I think They should re-examine this case.
lol correct but the forensic odontologist finding, the actual impression on a projector (you can actually see it with your own eyes), and then the killer’s own words he says yea it’s my bite mark impression. But it’s a set up right? I guess one of the guards had gotten a hold of mold of Llamuels teeth and after killing her used that to make such an impression to leave said impression as a mark that occurred during the act meaning prior to her death - we know that cause the wound wasn’t done post mortem. You have to be kidding me?
As soon as I heard he had a BPD diagnosis, my palms began to sweat. I have BPD and one of the key characteristics is impulsivity. You can either self-destruct or redirect it outward. Thankfully, I've always been self-destructive and have been taught how to deal with my BPD. Also note: NOT EVERYONE WITH BPD IS DANGEROUS OR HOMICIDAL. This is a harmful stereotype.
7:50 U mean to tell us that This guard here was selling cocaine and she was threatening to Rat him Out and yous Dont Think that THAT was a Good enough Reason to Kill her??15:35 Are youz Serious? The authorities just "ByPassed" That? Woww
Why didn't they ask the dirty guard "Why was he arguing w the victim??" How can they just byPass these questions?? The guard says "Yeah I was selling drugs but i didn't kill her?? Isnt that MOTIVE?? What was the inmates MOTIVE?? This was a Frame up by guards, how can't u investigators Not see that?? smdh15:47
So you all are saying that it’s so much likely that the cops did this as opposed to a convicted murderer who has not just murdered one person nope. He’s murdered I believe from what I can remember 6 people before the murder in question now in this episode. It’s so much more likely that the police would murder their coworker to cover up what again exactly some drug dealing? That’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard in my life. O yea right not to mention he literally used his trademark bite that he had left with all of his other victims. O and then lastly this case also shares the MO as the previous murders he had done. He was told no by a woman and he couldn’t handle that. He was able to get her alone and he killed her. Now maybe it’s the prisons fault and the guards fault for not seeing that something like this could definitely happen seeing as how it did
The whole bite mark analysis has been completely discredited. At the time the original Forensic Files show was created, it was still considered top-notch forensic methods.
It is my opinion that the victim was setup.. In other orders.. The killer was given total access to her... The corrupt guards knew that instincts would take over and this innocent lady would be murdered.
If you're a female rookie officer, you're not supposed to be left alone with a violent male offender in a small confined space. And does her sister not get that YES it DOES happen ALL THE TIME, but not with C.O.'s because they know better than to be alone with them.
That was one of the things that didn't add up for me among a few others. Isn't there a RULE that there's supposed to be a 3:1 ratio of officers to inmates in prisons like this? I would think if so that Donna would have known that rule and would have followed it despite the potential embarrassment as far as her reputation was concerned. She sounds like a C.O who would have been more concerned about her personal safety than her rep. among the other officers which wasn't very high to start with apparently. Also why wasn't there footage of the attack??? I would have thought in a MAXIMUM SECURITY prison there would be maximum camera coverage of the place especially when there are inmates like him that have special access to certain areas that other inmates don't have. Why wasn't there camera coverage of this office? IDGAD that it was the chaplain's office there should still be a camera in there.
As prison guards, there must always be caution and distance between guard and prisoner. In this case the victim allowed herself to be with one prisoner alone in a room, a dangerous situation. Secondly, prison guards should never have "cordial relations with prisoners, no matter how religious they appear to be. The convicted killer had all the forensic evidence against him and the hair samples in the room proved he was with the victim in her last hours, he had access to garbage disposal stuff and facilities, and had a previous record of crimes with the same pattern of killing. Smith did it, whether he was ordered to by other prison guards antagonistic to the victim or not.
I honestly think this investigation took the wrong turn. Especially considering the suspect that was eventually convicted was questioned only 5 days after the murder took place. When investigating, you don't focus your investigation around one person. Once you find someone, however, you look for evidence until you find that the person could not have been anywhere but at the crime scene committing the crime. In this case, yes there was evidence that showed that he had the "motive" the "ability" and the "modus operandi", but there laid a serious question that the defense should have asked. In the prosecutions version of facts, why was the possibility of rot amongst the ranks of the COs not mentioned or brought up effectively? Had the defense done that, the prosecution would have pressed it even further, for example finding that the hairs were or were not planted, that all the guards were accounted for elsewhere, that other fingerprints were found on the scene, etc.. Those are some broad interpretations, but I believe the investigation in this case just went the complete opposite way.
I believe the inmate. It was too perfect and no prisoner is allowed that kind of freedom to not have been noticed. That would’ve been way too risky to pull off. Officers have access to case files for prisoners. I absolutely believe they doctored this. That was already there for life, he no reason to lie.
@@MG-dj7jv I don’t know if OJ did it or not, it’s certainly possible but unfortunately the police were overzealous and botched the investigation and let him go free 🤷🏾♀️ I have my questions about that as well. I definitely think at minimum he knows what really happened. I think his son was involved. This crime here was too perfect. Those prison guards do stuff and plot against inmates all the time.
They absolutely can. Trustees have almost carte blanche. And he has two incredible reasons to lie- one would be the death penalty, the other that he’ll now spend his life in solitary continent (ad seg).
@@111danish111 Bite marks in criminal cases have been wrong on more than one occasion. They are not always as reliable as we’d are led to believe via television shows.
Remember the SnaggleTooth Killer? Almost the same teeth impression but not the killer. I guess this is a big conspiracy in prison.. to cover their jail guards and their irregularities inside.
In my opinion guards did this crime. When questioned the guard admitted to selling cocaine. Why would he admit this to authorities? I'm sure he lost his job. The only thing worse would be a murder suspect.
The prisoner, without a doubt, committed the murder. I can't believe this violent and brutal murderer would be allowed access to an empty room without interruptions. How he said, the order in which Donna was sexually assaulted and killed was a huge tell. Disgusting!
There's always cameras in the building for the safety of clergyman nurses and the guards no way they wouldn't see him and her go in the office without it being on cameras
Murder In my nation is : death by hanging . This man has killed and injured and hurt so many people. I don’t get it how he can get out of prison & repeat the same crime again & again ! The US law system needs to be amended !
No matter HOW many times I watch this epi, I find NEW things... Soooo, u mean to tell me that this inmate had THAT MUCH TIME where nooooo other CO DDNT know where this inmate was, u tellin' MI that NOOOOO1 HEARD HER SCREAMS?!!? NAAAA THEM CO'S WATCHED WHILE THIS INMATE KILLED THIS LADY, PROBABLY JOINED IN(DID) DISGUSTING THAT THEM "HUMANS" HEARD & WATCHED THIS HAPPEN JUST TO KEEP, I'm ANGERED.
Keep hearing maximum security yet a convicted killer not only murdered a guard but was able to transport a whole body unseen.I’m sorry bite mark or not this case stinks cover up.
Agreed, in those days it was not unknown for corrupt guards to lock a hated prisoner in a cell with someone who had a grudge, in Australia, some prisoners would be found to have committed suicide in their cells, years later it came out that some inmates had been hung by other prisoners with the green light of guards who assisted by opening the cell.
Also, items like a large enough garbage bagto wrap a body isn't something a prisoner would be let to walk away with, assuming the prisoner had access to the kitchen or yard duty, they're supposed to be searched for contraband before leaving those areas, so who procured that & how did not a single guard not see someone lugging around a huge wrapped up body, so suss.
@@amp279 That still happens today. Duh... 🙄🙄🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@amp279 exactly, I think he did kill her but he had help from at least one if not guards who also had good reason to want her gone
Most definitely a cover up. It's a dangerous environment for any woman to work in a high maximum prison.
@@synergisticcollusion134what a childish comment. Smh horrible at reading the room. 😒🤦♀️
I’m w/ the sister. A guard or someone who worked at the prison was involved also. She had way too many enemies in the prison. Yes, it may be very true that the prisoner committed the crime, but someone else was involved in it, too.
Yes I agree with Judi & by the way Judi died on 9/4/2004 while recovering from a brain aneurysm
As a Private Investigator I believe Prison guards were involved they used the inmate to cover up..... Remembered a guard was selling drugs inside as well
Yes, I was thinking maybe the guards gave her to him 🤔
I mean they had they're pick of a great number of phycos to hand her to.
@@jt414 Could of just paid him in drugs to kill her, they interviewed a possible guy
The guards killed her period you idiots. The guards were selling cocaine in the prison and bringing prostitutes to the inmates, which means they were no different than the inmates they were guarding. The victim's sister did not say that she thought the inmates were involved. She knew who killed her sister.
With or without her death, they need to do a complete overhaul of the staff and policies at the prison. Get officials in there, investigate all the guards. Too many criminals in guard uniforms.
lol. This case is from 1981, you ding-dong.
She was going to file a sexual harassment but “thought better of it”? As in, she came to her senses and decided not to file because it would have been a bad idea? That’s a weird way to phrase it
I thought wttf at that too!
so much sexism and racism in the old narration. the way sex workers are portrayed on FF is shameful as well. FF2 is doing a much better job of this tho
Like someone probably told her girl withdraw that lawsuit or something bad could happen, which unfortunately it did anyway!😢
She didn’t know if the charges would hold up and she knew a lot of things about the prison and the guards they didn’t want out in the public. She knew that if she filed the lawsuit she’d be attacked and threatened by everyone
Donna should have said something
I think one of the guards purposely gave access to Lamuel so that he kill her and they wouldn't have to worry about her snitching. The shit reaks of of a set up.
Thats a long shot...
Even if you are right, Lamuel deserves a conviction. Legally, by the standard of the reasonable man, he could have refused to do it.
He was already given access he shouldn’t have had, so I hope Donnas family sued the prison, that knew, or should have known, Smith needed to be locked up, like he is now, not given special privileges! The psychiatrist told them so! Com’mon people!…✌🏼🇨🇦
I was thinking the guards helped ensure a safe passage to the dumpster but why would Lamuel claim innocence afterwards?
I definitely believe this as well !
It makes no sense that guards roam around the prison alone. Especially a new woman guard. In a maximum security prison with 500 murderers
@Josh Gross That was due to the liberal legislation at the time and the fall our post Attica.
well, if the women want men's jobs, they should get men's pay, and also suffer men's consequences.
@@adotintheshark4848 I ain’t one of those bitches 😂 keep at home with the kids cooking, cleaning, and watching this shit with my doors locked 🙌🏻
the other guards set her up, it's obvious
Still watching at work. It gets me through the day. I love his voice
Same.
One of the inmate’s mistakes was to talk about the “doctored” bite marks. Never try to fill in the blanks on your own. It does more damage. I will say it is very suspicious that this happened coincidentally right at the time she was having problems with violent male prison guards.
This was an inside job
I've seen a case where a suspect was convicted because he had the same bite impressions as the killer....he was then vindicated by DNA
The bite mark is not enough to convict Lamuel
Yep I know this case...
Bite marks can be used for excluding suspect, but not for including suspect.
It's possible the guards approached Lemuel and said, "if you want to keep your freedoms, you'll do this" Lemuel even admitted to his shrink that he would do his crime again if let out, that he "couldn't stop".
@@adotintheshark4848 really
The facts in this case doesn't prove him guilty beyond reasonable doubt
You're wrong, no two people have the same bite pattern. It's all how the impressions are compared to the suspects bite pattern that things go wrong. Even if the bite mark was deemed circumstancial, sometimes jury only needs circumstancial evidence to convict someone. In my opinion you should have 3 forensic odontologists examine them independently and come to a conclusion then.
Poor lady, she didn't deserve that 😢
The person who initially took the phonecall for Donna should have been interviewed about who it sounded like..
If one of the guards didn't kill her, then the guards put an inmate up to it. With a yard full of murderers, it wouldn't have been hard to find a willing participant.
I think they framed him. They have the means to get away with it
Dangerous environment for any Male and female officers but specially a female officer.
Complete set up! What prisoner has that much freedom? The guards definitely did it. Almost all the investigators look for the easy answer and will never accuse one of their own
Yeah I totally agree. When he defended himself it was very convincing. Not to mention that even they admitted that only prison guards would have that freedom and ability and motive!!
Ridiculous. He had the privacy. It was his teeth. It was his exact previous killing M.O.. It was his third kill.
Also, a paranoid schizophrenic was organized enough to do all this? Bite marks are terrible evidence. But a bite mark after a day in a trash compactor and garbage dump is ridiculous. That seems like an easy set up. Make it look like one of the crazy inmates.
@@ajarfullofjoy The forensic science says otherwise.....
L
This case needs to be reinvestigated
I think this is one of the most contentious episodes among fans of the show, right up there with Where the Bloods Drops and Picture This.
I agree with you on that observation...
Litz murders was a good one.
Id say its those 3 and Burning Desire are the most contentious in the community
@@nathanschuster269Is that the Sandy Maloney episode? Yeah, I'd put that one up there, too.
@@evosthunder yeah thats the one. Still not convinced of John’s guilt in that one myself
This case just screams “police cover up”. Like am I the only one who’s suspicious that this woman went through the trash compactor and got run over with a bulldozer, and this bite wound was somehow so clear and usable?
My thoughts exactly
My thoughts exactly
Guards are likely and routinely manipulation by inmates. They will likely threaten the safety of their wives and children unless the guard plays ball.
This is the first time that I had my doubts about the outcome. Forensic Files may have gotten this one wrong. This is also one of the first times that Forensic Files had an episode conclude with so little evidence. Just seemed like Forensic Files wants us to believe something that didn't happen the way they said it did. Even the sister didn't believe it happened that way. This stinks a cover up. Forensic Files lost a little credibility with me. There's little to know "forensic" evidence here.
Exactly!!!!
Forensic Files has gotten numerous cases wrong.
This the only episode I doubt
@@synergisticcollusion134citation?
Agreed. They have to provide more evidence then jut a bit mark. Those prison guards were criminals themselves and never investigated to the extent they should’ve been
I'm really torn on this one. If I was on a jury and all of this was presented to me, I wouldn't be able to return a guilty verdict on the inmate. All they really have is the bite mark and that evidence isn't compelling enough to me to cover the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement.
I think ultimately I agree with the sister - the other guards were somehow responsible.
However, I DO think if the inmate did it, he wouldn't admit it. He had too many freedoms.
@johnson oney not the point. Just because he's killed 2 other women don't prove he killed Donna. only that he killed the other 2. Plus she went through a TRASH COMPACTOR AND got RUN OVER by a BULLDOZER. To be honest I don't see how that can happen and the so-called bite mark still be CLEAR enough to identify it AS A bite mark at all much less his.
Also no he didn't want parole he told the therapist to make sure he "NEVER gets out because I'll do this again"
I won't say he DIDN'T do this one too but base on the evidence given I can't convict him either. Plus you have multiple other CO's doing illegal shit that they knew Donna would have blown their cover over if she had a reason to do so. ANY of them could have done this and they would have had as good a motive as he supposedly had
@@LotusStitchandSketch Yes the point. He had already been proven to be guilty on those other murders with his bite mark.
I always wonder about people who defends criminals 🙄 Are they one of them? How weak!
Aw this monster killed two women and now people are looking at him as a victim? These kind of weaklings make me sick. This mnster im self has more honesty than those defending him here.
He killed Donna because he did not have access to another woman for him to keep doing what he himself seid cannot stip doing; murdering innocent women.
You defending this POS should open your doors to this criminal 😅 Such an angel on earth you are awwwww🙄👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@johnson oney You are the one who shouldn't be on a jury with your ignorance. Just because he committed the earlier crimes does not mean he committed THIS crime.
And bite mark evidence has been proven to be inaccurate on multiple occasions.
Maybe go read up and watch more true crime and you'd know these things.
@@ivonned32 Good God are you ever dumb! Another Mother who should've swallowed and spared humanity their offspring... Talk about being weak AND selfish! 🙄🙄🤦♀️
this is really hard to decide, the criminal says he is innocent, while the crime is just how he has done it before, they guards could have been pissed because their racket was being exposed, all of this has happened before. ugh
Yeah, I agree with you. Also, those corrupt guards would know about this guys “modus operandi”, they would know about many of the killers crimes and they could set it up - I mean, if they were really keen who knows what lengths they would go to.
I've watched these TIME & TIIIIME Again... it never gets old... no MATTER how many times I've watched🤦🏽♀️🤗🤗🤗🤗🤦🏽♀️
Same
500 murderers ? Like walking along alligator swamp.
That's so true 😢😢😢😢
I think he may have done it but definitely had assistance
Reading many of the comments I believe mine will be similar. The guards (certain ones) would have had much easier access to do this. The guards would also know which inmate they could easily pin it on simply by "copy catting" the previous crime of an inmate. The inmate accused would certainly be the easiest. The guards knew he had more freedom, had the office to himself that day and certainly know what the inmate was in for and how he did his crime. I'm sure the guards have access to inmate files so they would know about the bite mark and in the file would likely be photos of his bite impression. Would be very easy to fake a bite mark, a screw driver pressed into the skin at just the right positions would make it easy. And why only the bottom bite impression? In order to make that bad of a bite mark there would need to be something for the top teeth to bite to put that much pressure on the bottom jaw. And this inmate, even if he did kill her, would have to be crazy to actually leave bite marks on her. Yeah I'm 80/20 on this one, 80% on the side that one or more guards did her and framed the inmate. This happened in the early 1980's so DNA wan not yet perfected. I believe had they collected and saved "rape kit" samples back then they would now be able to match it to someone.
🤦♀️ Sometimes it IS just how it looks. Your scenario is as likely as 👽 aliens being the guilty party. As a matter of fact I’d believe the aliens did it versus this elaborate plan involving guards, a screwdriver..etc.. You have a great imagination tho.😂
How long do you think they practiced on human skin with a screw driver in order to perfect the mimicking of a bite mark from a picture?
Even if DNA testing had been available back then, by the time Donna's body was found, she'd been in the trash truck and the landfill. Any DNA they might've found would've been contaminated and useless.
As a female I have to say I think it's a bad idea for there to be female corrections officers at an all male maximum security prison. It is a recipe for trouble; rape of the corrections officer, overpowering of them in an attempt to escape from the prison, etc. Female corrections officers should be assigned to guard female prisoners, and male corrections officers assigned to guard male prisoners.
Nobody cares
The guards definitely killed her and framed it on the easiest suspect to take the blame.
That's why you have so many murderers hanging out around you.
He’s obviously guilty. How exactly would the guards have been able to frame him? They would not have had any access to the body after it was found. There’s no way logistically they could have framed him.
@@riggs20 one of the guards could have put her body in the trash though. He may have killed her but they might have covered it up
Let's make a deal and Good ol Boys are still running the show. Poor Donna...Someone had a snaggletooth and a vengeance. The same thing happened with Bundy. His crooked ass teeth didn't help his case, but helped close it. When I see these photos of dead victims, it makes me wanna cry.
Yes I agree the man is clearly innocent and a prison Guard did this to poor Donna…
The murderer of two women is where he belongs. I hope he rots in prison.
😂😂😂
A Maximum Security prison without cameras in every nook and cranny ? Strange ..
1981
It was the 80's🙄😩
It was the 80s
The guards were in on this, especially since she was marked for standing up for herself. 23 hours a day in solidarity confinement...isn't this illegal?
Illega?? Maan NOTHINGS ILLEGAL IN PRISON
No, it's the strictest setup in prison.
Are you forgetting he did rape and murder a woman!!
I have seen most of these episodes IF not all……but I keep watching them no matter what because they were really good. I don’t know what has happened to the new Forensic Files II which were on TV, but now they have “disappeared” from television. I don’t know IF they are still in the making of Forensic Files II, or if these shows have been discontinued. Let’s hope that they return to TV again.
Forensic Files II is on AppleTv
Forensic II sucks, not the same feel at all
@@eddybrash1793 P
Forensic Files II is on ID (Investigation Discovery).
Did the guard have an alibi? They didn't have video footage that they could review for leads?
Never think twice about a sexual harassment lawsuit/reporting of a crime. If you don't, they'll believe what they do is A-OK and that you are nothing. STAND UP! FIGHT BACK!
A place like that fight back is a death sentence I believe she died because she fought back
Fighting back got her murdered
Hes right that what he said to a phycologist is strictly confidential. You arent ethically allowed to talk about it to anyone!
The retired detective was reading his part. I believe he was framed as well
When a criminal gets caught, he does not think to himself, "What I did was wrong and I won't do it again." Rather, he says to himself "I made a mistake in my crime and next time I will do it differently." First step towards any form of sobriety, one must admit one is the problem. Same with chemical dependency, violent criminals will never change unless they can see that they are the problem. and not societal laws. There isn't a pit big enough to through these people into.
That's very gracious of you. I would have said there isn't a pit big enough to burn them all in.
This case can go either way. I don’t put it past a fellow guard or the criminal. We all know once cops get an idea in their mind of who’s guilty, you have to move heaven and earth to prove otherwise.
lets be real, they get to spend less time on that case too lol
I agree. While I'm not saying he COULD'NT have done it I'm not entirely convinced that he did do it either. Based on all the illegal shit going on with the other guards, I do think it is entirely possible that it could have been a guard that did this and then it got blamed on him as a cover-up. Unlikely? yes but impossible? no.
A truly devious individual. The murder was in a private place and took no time. Exactly same crime as twice before no brainer
I think the guards angry with her “gave” her to the inmate to have his way with. They wanted her gone. He made her disappear- joint effort.
I agree with you. They saw what would come, but they allowed it. The other prison guards were as guilty as Samuel
You're both stupid. 🙄🤦♀️
He was framed by the guards. They obviously have access to see what his MO was for other murders to make sure the details are correct.
Most guards are malicious & dishonest. Convinced the guards did it.
I'm inclined to believe there's much more to this case. It would be tough for me as a juror to come back with a guilty verdict, knowing the body had been compacted in a garbage truck and then run over in the landfill. That in itself could have created all kinds of marks on the body. On top of all that, what about the prison guards " Let's make a deal " with the prisoners scheme. I'm not siding with this convicted killer either. I'm trying to figure out why he wasn't put to death on his previous murders, let alone giving him to much freedom in prison, because he's a model prisoner. This guy should have been JUICED in the ELECTRIC CHAIR.
exactly where I stand. too many questions on this one for me. plus a little too convenient for the other guards doing all the illegal stuff. Donna could have got every one of them fired had they given her a reason to. Which they of course knew. Could he have done it yes, but to me on this one it sounds more like they jumped to conclusion too quickly and didn't really investigate it enough to be certain. Too many other people with motive, access and opportunity in my opinion.
My issue was not that it could have been a cover up, my issue with this case is that this avenue was apparently not even looked at.
This is THE COMMENT!!!!! Like once ppl start pulling the veil back on illegal doings within rank you can believe the whistle blower is a target! So her death is not shocking. And i also agree Lamuel should have been laid to pasture by that second death at the very least! The fact that he was even still lawfully alive to be a suspect is BEYOND ME! But yea this case stinks!
that case was closed just too soon
this is definitely a complicated situation for me because these "professionals" who work in institutions such as jails/ prisons/ nursing homes etc can definitely mislead a vulnerable population into thinking that it's ok to reach out to them on a certain level !! it's extremely painful and confusing when boundaries are crossed in these type of settings !! because even when a inmate or a client DOES ask if it's ok to reach out they can and STILL will get rejected just because of their status !!!!
This girl died of strangluation. And sexual assault
Why are there no cameras in a Supermax prison? That’s the main thing that irritates me. Outside of bathrooms there shouldn’t be an inch of space that’s not covered by a cameras eye.
even bathrooms should be filmed. i would rather be filmed shitting than fear of being raped
@@AlexanderSimic 😂
1981
1981 that’s why
@@indycastletonjonahinarizon8380 cameras did exist in 1981, people
I’ve watched this twice. The first time I believed the guards framed this criminal. This time around, I don’t think so. It’s not just the exact type of murder but it’s also his pattern. He thinks a women is his friend if she shows any interest in him. He makes her a gift. This was the case with the girl he murdered. When she rejected his advances he killed her. This looks to be the same scenario. Donna befriended him, took an interest in his wood working, likely he thought she was his friend, and she was interested in him making her a wooden box. Then when she rejected him, he killed her. Same pattern of behavior and same type murder. And the exact bite mark with the exact missing tooth. I don’t think that can be duplicated. I think it just worked out for the dirty cops that he killed her.
maybe they both had something to do with it. maybe the guard killed her and he came in and sexually assaulted her, bit her, and got rid of the body
I'm
1st of, the pattern is not exactly the same, the supposed "bite mark" (it didnt look so much like one to me) was at a different place. 2nd, he admitted to the other murders but not this one. 3rd, the gards had access to his pattern and could have mimicked it.
Sounds like we have an expert here. And you got it all figured out. Bite marks are not used as forensic evidence any more by the way.
To frame someone it would be better to copy the crimes the inmate did before hey.
what about an alibi? no camera? i just think that even if a judge wouldn't believe a prisoners alibi then what about the other guards? you can carve out bite marks...you can't be in two places at once...
Donna should not have been behind closed doors with this evil monster. He had too much freedom in the prison.
Great forensics with the bite mark evidence.
Condolences to the family
REST IN PEACE DONNA
Bite marks have been determined to not be real evidence.
The Closed Captions subtitles isn't Forensic Files it's about Marilyn Chambers in Behind the Green Door. lol
That's actually from a previous episode about the Mitchell brothers, SIbling Rivalry
I thought it was mine that was actin up I had to restart the episode cuz i was so confused lol😅
No way that's a bite mark...where is the top bite pattern...in that location I fail to see how anyone would do that type of wound with only the bottom set of teeth...most likely scenario guards killed her dumped the body and those injuries were all caused by impactor and the prosecution saw something that wasn't there a bite pattern so went after one guy...I mean the dude confessed to his other crimes what does he achieve pleading his innocence now if he is guilty..nothing other than the fact he didn't do it
I mean the previous one he bit her on the nose.. so it's not like he's a stranger to weird bite places.
Because having killed a prison guard inside a prison, makes him the absolute most dangerous prisoner. His life will be 23 hour solitary confinement until he can convince someone he was framed. Isolation like that is pure mental torture.
@@trickortrump3292 if he actually done it, then he would be deserving of that mental torture.
@@officerahmo Yep after all the shit he’s done, he’d definitely deserve it if he did this one too. Wouldn’t it be pretty similar to the experience of locked-in syndrome? You can see and hear and feel everything but you can’t speak and you can’t move. A prisoner in the hole can move around a bit but they’ve got zero stimuli. They can talk but what’s the point if no one can hear them? Just the idea of it makes me cringe. “Oh crap! I’ve been a bad girl again! Let me go breathe in nothingness in a dark room until I literally start to hallucinate”. But I guess OP doesn’t see that as a motivation to deny crime if he did it.
@@trickortrump3292 exactly
I do believe that Lemuel had nothing to do with the murder of Donna I believe that the guards killed her and framed someone else Lemuel
he was framed. I loved how they inverted the bite marks in the two known picture to make it look like one in the guard. no one bites inside out or inverted. those prints they showed would've had to be curved to the right not the left. the guard did it
I think they set her up to be alone with that inmate. They knew what he would do!
yesssss
That man killed her but he had help. Maximum security my ass.
There are some inconsistencies here. A bite mark that survived the crushing of a bulldozer. The victim had beef with her own coworkers who labeled her a "snitch."
There were multiple failures in this incident. This is ONLY known case of this happening? Nah this smells of a set-up.
The fact that the bite mark was the only piece of evidence, the only thing tying the dude to the case doesnt sit well with me. he was an easy escape goat
And the phone call, and her hair, his history...
@@dukedematteo1995 We don't know about the phone call, and the hair could have EASILY been planted.
@@officerahmo and the fact he raped basically every woman in sight before he went to prison...
@@officerahmo he's lucky it was in NY in the early 80s and not some state that would put his monsterous ass on death row.
I hope there will be reopening of the case ... but still, i don't know if lemouel is still alive as of today... it's shocking that donna has no friend in her work that could speak up for her or have noticed irregularities. When she got lost, they didn't inspect the trash or warn the garbage management facility to freeze the recebt garbage collection. 😒 its just so weird
What about the semen?
It was his?
@@windsorgrandave3135 as far as i can recall there is no findings abt semen not even mentioned if they found any due to the manner the body is found, deeply contaminated and wretched due to bulldozers and other vehicles used in the garbage dump site.
The only criminating factor is the violent sexual assault and the bitemarks.
Yes, Lemuel Smith is still alive at age 81 in December, 2022. He is still incarcerated in the New York state corrections system.
There was another episode about a fire supposedly started by a mother and her infant boy was killed in it. One of the fire experts said that it could be a problem if a fire was assigned to an arson expert because an arson expert would be “looking” for an arson. The fire expert penned a letter calling the arson investigator's report "junk science". We did not know all the evidence associated with this case but one would ask a question from a layman's perspective when seeing the pictures of the 2 victims' 'bite marks". The bite marks on the nose of one of the victims clearly showed 2 rolls of red spots but the picture of the prison guard had only one very dark and distinct single roll. A deep bite mark by the bottom roll of teeth could be made with the absence of the marks made by the top roll of teeth? Was that question answered during the trial? It was answered but not shown by this video? This is not about whether they had the wrong killer but just a simple question from a layman. The video did not present all evidence. It may not have told the story in the best possible way. A lot of details were not presented probably due to the time constraints of a TV show.
On other episodes of Forensic Files, bite marks have been exposed as junk science
@Sephiroth766
Ok but which Episode and Season?
@@satoru937 ruclips.net/video/J-uv8Wk0vW0/видео.html
Why are you lying?
Most times when a prisoner Murders someone whilst in prison , they don’t remove the body from the facility…. Just like the sister said when has that happened that intricately before our sense ?
As opposed to how many times a guard has murdered a fellow guard and smuggled the body out of the prison? And he didn’t exactly “smuggle her out”. He put her covered in a trash can and someone else took the trash out.
And it's never happened since I'm not saying the guy is innocent but I'm not sure he's 100% guilty either. Something for me just doesn't add up here.
@@LotusStitchandSketch What does how many times something has happened say about who was responsible? You could interchange the suspect and point to the same thing and say the same thing. A guard could be arrested and you’d say “No prison guard has killed someone inside a prison and then moved the body out, therefore it must have been a group of guards.” You could go arrest five more guards and say “No group of guards has ever moved a murder victim outside therefore it had to have been an inmate.” All we’re doing is pointing at something weird and saying “that’s weird” but it isn’t actually evidence of anything.
@@trickortrump3292 All I'm saying is that something is not right with this. This whole thing smells wrong. I'm not saying he didn't kill her but I know full well there was at least one guard in on it if not multiple. Plus look at how long she was missing. How is a C.O. going to be missing like that but yet no one realizes it until evening RC???? If you work at a MAX SECURITY prison you're not going to just disappear like that for any length of time and it not be noticed. If you're not where you're assigned to be when you're assigned to be there THAT IS NOT GOING TO NOT BE NOTICED. They knew something was not right they just didn't care enough to take it seriously until after the fact. After they knew she'd been killed then they decided they cared. I'm thinking more likely that he is guilty of killing Donna but he had help in the cover-up and removal of her body from one or multiple guards who also had a reason to want her gone
I agree with Cassie Black. When an inmate kills someone inside an prison they want everyone to see it and know about it! Its their badge of honour so to say. 🏅
This is a man thats serving not 1 but 2 life sentences thats he's already admitted to too, so I wouldn't do him any good to deny this 1 I truly believe he didn't kill her the way he said" I hope she get justice for her sister" spoke volumes to me!!
i agree with you 100%
Agreed
i think he might be innocent but that remark means nothing to me lol. any narcissist would lie about that. the only thing is how does the bite mark match if he is innocent?
You are so naive. He simply wants to continue being seen as a changed man because that gave him privileges.
And this here is as good as DNA evidence 16:18
Something is wrong with you people
At the age of 16 admits to 1 murder (done at age 16- admitted to but was not convicted) and then commits 3 different rapes of women. Was convicted.
Went to jail for only 4 years. Was released.
Came out and only a month or so after being released committed 3 brutal murders 2 of the victims had been brutally raped. (4 murders 5 violent rapes) Then he had attempted to lure a 22 year old woman out of store where she worked. She refused so he violently attacked and tried to use her grandmother as a hostage to lure the woman outside. His efforts were thwarted when help arrived and he knocked said grandmother unconscious and deliberately stomped on her hand as he fled. Committed another rape and murder (5 murders 6 rapes) before he was apprehended after kidnapping another young woman and raping her (7 rapes). Police were able to apprehend him without incident (because he's a rapist and a pussy doesn't have the balls to try and fight the an able body man) as she was being forced to drive him to Albany New York.
People on here trying to defend someone who has been both suspected and in most of the cases convicted of having done 5 different rapes & murders of women and also raping 2 other women who were fortunate enough to not lose their lives at the hands of this scum bag.
nobody's trying to defend him, of those other crimes he did commit, but there is literally no evidence against him in this case. Bite mark "matches" (not just these but ALL bite mark evidence) have been legally deemed as being "incorrect most of the time" and scientifically deemed "not meeting the requirements of a forensic science".
The guards who killed her _purposely picked_ a violent murderer to blame Donna's murder on. And I guess it worked on you, it looks like you fell for their plan.
I totally agree with you. There are some really stupid people in this world and they are not afraid to run their mouths. Maybe the guards looked the other way and let it happen. They should have to answer for that. But it is quite obvious this guy did it and should not have been given the chaplain gig
CO’s are some of the most corrupt people and detrimental to prisoners…they are in a state of power and authority, but CO’s are also at high risk for something like this. I feel horrible for her family and for Donna. So sad.
I completely agree.
Still think the guards had something to do with it.
agreed I think at the very least they were in on it even if they didn't do the deed themselves. Was probably a guard who dumped her in the trash bin not him. I find it VERY HARD to believe that ANY inmate convicted of ONE murder (much less 2) would EVER be allowed to be alone with ANY guard for ANY REASON PERIOD.
@@LotusStitchandSketch Stop being paranoid.
I think the Lemuel did it, but I also think the guards allowed him to do it. They wanted Donna dead, but didn't want to get their hands dirty so they allowed her to be murdered by Lemuel, I don't know if they paid him to do it or convinced him that Donna liked him, but whatever the case they were for sure involved in Donna's murder.
I can remember hearing about this case on Unsolved Mysteries years ago.
I would bet you $5000 right now that that man did not kill that lady, someone who worked at that prison killed her.. And now this man who works so hard to become a better person lost the tiny bit of freedom he had and has to be on lunch now 23 hours a day for the rest of His life, I think They should re-examine this case.
Hmmmmm…. One of those guards did it. You telling me that ALL of the evidence was destroyed except the teeth marks?!?!? Complete cover up.
He killed her but the prison guards are covering way more than her murder.
I lived 20 minutes from this prison. Wild.
Urrr wouldn't work at that prison🤦
I still feel like this had to be a setup somehow or at the very least the guards egged on the inmate or something. It feels fishy
Means, motives and opportunity aren't factual evidentiary proof.
lol correct but the forensic odontologist
finding, the actual impression on a projector (you can actually see it with your own eyes), and then the killer’s own words he says yea it’s my bite mark impression.
But it’s a set up right? I guess one of the guards had gotten a hold of mold of Llamuels teeth and after killing her used that to make such an impression to leave said impression as a mark that occurred during the act meaning prior to her death - we know that cause the wound wasn’t done post mortem.
You have to be kidding me?
It is very convenient for a prison with known corruption and a plethora of possible suspects. 🙄
WHAT DID THE INMATES HAVE TO OFFER THE GUARDS??? Lol i mean "lets make a deal"?.
Whistle blowing is dangerous.
As soon as I heard he had a BPD diagnosis, my palms began to sweat. I have BPD and one of the key characteristics is impulsivity. You can either self-destruct or redirect it outward. Thankfully, I've always been self-destructive and have been taught how to deal with my BPD.
Also note: NOT EVERYONE WITH BPD IS DANGEROUS OR HOMICIDAL. This is a harmful stereotype.
7:50 U mean to tell us that This guard here was selling cocaine and she was threatening to Rat him Out and yous Dont Think that THAT was a Good enough Reason to Kill her??15:35 Are youz Serious? The authorities just "ByPassed" That? Woww
Why didn't they ask the dirty guard "Why was he arguing w the victim??" How can they just byPass these questions?? The guard says "Yeah I was selling drugs but i didn't kill her?? Isnt that MOTIVE?? What was the inmates MOTIVE?? This was a Frame up by guards, how can't u investigators Not see that?? smdh15:47
So you all are saying that it’s so much likely that the cops did this as opposed to a convicted murderer who has not just murdered one person nope. He’s murdered I believe from what I can remember 6 people before the murder in question now in this episode. It’s so much more likely that the police would murder their coworker to cover up what again exactly some drug dealing? That’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard in my life. O yea right not to mention he literally used his trademark bite that he had left with all of his other victims. O and then lastly this case also shares the MO as the previous murders he had done. He was told no by a woman and he couldn’t handle that. He was able to get her alone and he killed her. Now maybe it’s the prisons fault and the guards fault for not seeing that something like this could definitely happen seeing as how it did
You're living in another world if you don't think criminal guards will murder a new comer if she messed with their money making system.
Very well said. Lord help us if the fools leaving the comments are ever in a position of power.
@@lesterduncan2914a whole nother world people kill for way less than that
The whole bite mark analysis has been completely discredited. At the time the original Forensic Files show was created, it was still considered top-notch forensic methods.
It is my opinion that the victim was setup.. In other orders.. The killer was given total access to her... The corrupt guards knew that instincts would take over and this innocent lady would be murdered.
Guard framed everything,, no one go against there anther guard ,,
If you're a female rookie officer, you're not supposed to be left alone with a violent male offender in a small confined space. And does her sister not get that YES it DOES happen ALL THE TIME, but not with C.O.'s because they know better than to be alone with them.
That was one of the things that didn't add up for me among a few others. Isn't there a RULE that there's supposed to be a 3:1 ratio of officers to inmates in prisons like this? I would think if so that Donna would have known that rule and would have followed it despite the potential embarrassment as far as her reputation was concerned. She sounds like a C.O who would have been more concerned about her personal safety than her rep. among the other officers which wasn't very high to start with apparently.
Also why wasn't there footage of the attack??? I would have thought in a MAXIMUM SECURITY prison there would be maximum camera coverage of the place especially when there are inmates like him that have special access to certain areas that other inmates don't have. Why wasn't there camera coverage of this office? IDGAD that it was the chaplain's office there should still be a camera in there.
@@LotusStitchandSketch people are saying there weren't any cameras because this happened in 1981 when cameras weren't as common
She was definitely killed by a guard and our guy was framed
As prison guards, there must always be caution and distance between guard and prisoner. In this case the victim allowed herself to be with one prisoner alone in a room, a dangerous situation. Secondly, prison guards should never have "cordial relations with prisoners, no matter how religious they appear to be. The convicted killer had all the forensic evidence against him and the hair samples in the room proved he was with the victim in her last hours, he had access to garbage disposal stuff and facilities, and had a previous record of crimes with the same pattern of killing. Smith did it, whether he was ordered to by other prison guards antagonistic to the victim or not.
I honestly think this investigation took the wrong turn. Especially considering the suspect that was eventually convicted was questioned only 5 days after the murder took place.
When investigating, you don't focus your investigation around one person. Once you find someone, however, you look for evidence until you find that the person could not have been anywhere but at the crime scene committing the crime. In this case, yes there was evidence that showed that he had the "motive" the "ability" and the "modus operandi", but there laid a serious question that the defense should have asked. In the prosecutions version of facts, why was the possibility of rot amongst the ranks of the COs not mentioned or brought up effectively?
Had the defense done that, the prosecution would have pressed it even further, for example finding that the hairs were or were not planted, that all the guards were accounted for elsewhere, that other fingerprints were found on the scene, etc.. Those are some broad interpretations, but I believe the investigation in this case just went the complete opposite way.
Donna responded by filing a sexual harassment lawsuit for being sexually harassed, but later thought better of it
I believe the inmate. It was too perfect and no prisoner is allowed that kind of freedom to not have been noticed. That would’ve been way too risky to pull off. Officers have access to case files for prisoners. I absolutely believe they doctored this. That was already there for life, he no reason to lie.
Thank God you're not a judge. I bet you think oj was innocent as well
@@MG-dj7jv I don’t know if OJ did it or not, it’s certainly possible but unfortunately the police were overzealous and botched the investigation and let him go free 🤷🏾♀️ I have my questions about that as well. I definitely think at minimum he knows what really happened. I think his son was involved. This crime here was too perfect. Those prison guards do stuff and plot against inmates all the time.
They absolutely can. Trustees have almost carte blanche. And he has two incredible reasons to lie- one would be the death penalty, the other that he’ll now spend his life in solitary continent (ad seg).
The bite mark evidence is indisputable You are wrong.
@@111danish111 Bite marks in criminal cases have been wrong on more than one occasion. They are not always as reliable as we’d are led to believe via television shows.
He was framed ...
The prison guards did it and framed him ....
what do they think we are ? stupid ?
The guards , set it up and allowed some inmate to carry it out .
FOR SURE ,PAID CRIMINALS WITH A BADGE
Happens all the time but in 2023 its never on the news...
Remember the SnaggleTooth Killer? Almost the same teeth impression but not the killer. I guess this is a big conspiracy in prison.. to cover their jail guards and their irregularities inside.
In my opinion guards did this crime. When questioned the guard admitted to selling cocaine. Why would he admit this to authorities? I'm sure he lost his job. The only thing worse would be a murder suspect.
This story is not over
He is pure evil
The prisoner, without a doubt, committed the murder. I can't believe this violent and brutal murderer would be allowed access to an empty room without interruptions. How he said, the order in which Donna was sexually assaulted and killed was a huge tell. Disgusting!
There's always cameras in the building for the safety of clergyman nurses and the guards no way they wouldn't see him and her go in the office without it being on cameras
@@yvesmenard9372um this was the 80'"s🥴 they didnt have camera's shoved up your crotch in every crevice of earth as they do now🤷🏾♀️
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Murder In my nation is : death by hanging . This man has killed and injured and hurt so many people. I don’t get it how he can get out of prison & repeat the same crime again & again !
The US law system needs to be amended !
No matter HOW many times I watch this epi, I find NEW things... Soooo, u mean to tell me that this inmate had THAT MUCH TIME where nooooo other CO DDNT know where this inmate was, u tellin' MI that NOOOOO1 HEARD HER SCREAMS?!!? NAAAA THEM CO'S WATCHED WHILE THIS INMATE KILLED THIS LADY, PROBABLY JOINED IN(DID)
DISGUSTING THAT THEM "HUMANS" HEARD & WATCHED THIS HAPPEN JUST TO KEEP, I'm ANGERED.