Pruett's work this year on testing plumbatae contradicts much of what Lindybeige states here and he has the testing to support him. Pruett's darts reach 90+m thrown overhand. Underhand throws barely reach 60m. Pruett calls these a super weapon and explains why. His document does have some minor formatting issues, but it is still quite informative and entertaining to read. After contacting him via Academia.edu and making him aware of the formatting issues he, he stated he will investigate the problem and try to fix it over the next few days. You can access it here: www.academia.edu/42176281/Re_Testing_Plumbatae_Setting_the_Record_Straight_via_Experience_Experimentation_and_the_Examination_of_Historical_Sources BTW, Pruett's darts look more elegant and lethal than the one shown here. This plumbata looks unaerodynamic with the thick shaft and the many thick leather fletchings. I'm going to have to charge Mr. Pruett a PR fee, lol. What's the VAT on that?
Thank you. I've read that article a while back. Just some corrections: it is me talking not Lindybeige. The latter is interviewing me here at the event! Pruett's research is interesting but in my mind not conclusive.
@@TheWracked Thank you for the correction. He does point out that all the previous testing had major flaws and that false data has been propagated in the literature. I dare say that as more research is performed by competent testers, Pruett's work will stand up well. Certainly much more so than the work of Vermaat that now looks to be rather shoddy in comparison. To me, Pruett's findings are more compelling than anything else I've seen on the topic. Have a happy New Year!
@@stephaniedelmonico3058 You, too! Anything with advances our understanding of these weapons is always to be welcomed. Sadly, given the distance in time and our limited understanding of how they were used, I suspect all our research will always remain suggestive rather than conclusive.
@@TheWracked Thank you! And agreed, we can never absolutely know, so then we turn to preponderance of evidence and logic to inform our understanding. To me, Pruett's arguments, his dissection of previous works, his identification of underlying inadequacies in testing, the medical evidence, and his own testing using appropriate throwers shifts the weight of evidence to his side of the scale. Decidedly so. Stay healthy and happy!
what really interests me is when the fall happend in 476,and onwards towrds the crusades...I always wonder if a Western Roman Legion was formed to fight in a battle during the islamic invasions of france or the crusades...like a ghost Legion. I have read somewhat into Herculiani heavy infantry,Raveena Elite Ballistarii and Scholae Palatinae making up a bulk of a Legion,could take on a crusader army and win....The roman Army was not only disciplined,but well equipped and tough fighters. these two thoughts have crossed my mind,though...I'm sure not much has changed since the fall to the third crusades...as far as infantry and calvary go...and archers.... as I said Western Rome was way ahead of its enemies...
Its kind of like how knight armor gave way to no armor. Like yes the Pilum beats this in killing and destructive power. But this is much more economical to manufacture, easy to carry around and just imagine hundreds of people lobbing self righting lawn darts all over your formation.
I would assume that these weapons would be what you give the men who don't show any skills in the sling or the bow. These things look to be undersized lawn darts and if you were a kid during the era of lawn darts you could get fairly good at them in a weekend
@@TheWracked I’ve heard of the ancient peoples of Ireland using a javelin with a rope tether type sling and I saw a thousand year old painting showing one. I’m guessing it was probably ubiquitous in the ancient world as adding energy to a thrown weapon is just a pretty good idea, I suspect
This plumbata example looks quite small and wimpy. If it were larger it would punch a hole in a helmet, nevermind a skull. I'd throw that overhand like a tomahawk that would self-right in flight.
Romans had the pilum which is basically a bigger version of this - one of its uses was to deprive enemies of their shields, as it would lodge into the shields and bend on impact, hindering removal and making the shield heavy and impractical to use.
most movies are early imperial period...I have seen very few during the 5th century ,but they used the wrong uniforms....in some...it would be nice if they made a few like last legion correctly.... also displaying the infantry ,calvary and missile units correctly for a battle or series of battle in a movie..or series of movies...like lord of the rings style...part 1 ,2and 3.
This is the third time RUclips has brought plumbata up to me in a month. It's pretty cool but I have shotguns and rifles so I'm not super impressed after the first couple videos.
I don't think this man really knows much. Not a killing weapon?? Bit of rust and dog shit they will die at some point. Also ancient warriors would have been trained to a high standard. I wonder if you could throw it like a spear and put a bit of spin in it as you let go.
Infection does not kill you fast enough. This weapon seemed to have been a compromise between economics and ease of use and quality. The pilum was definitely more destructive. But this was cheap and easy to manufacture and use. Just like muskets or crossbows were easy to use compared to a Longbow. And how that later led to bigger armies with less elites and plate armour.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Tod of Tod’s workshop has done a couple of interesting vids on these recently.
Seem them - very good!
Wait... Is there Lindybeige? I recognised him by the voice
As described above and at the beginning of the video! Lindybeige himself!
The one and only.
I knew it was him, the blighter
Very interesting! So many interesting things mentioned!
Pruett's work this year on testing plumbatae contradicts much of what Lindybeige states here and he has the testing to support him. Pruett's darts reach 90+m thrown overhand. Underhand throws barely reach 60m. Pruett calls these a super weapon and explains why. His document does have some minor formatting issues, but it is still quite informative and entertaining to read. After contacting him via Academia.edu and making him aware of the formatting issues he, he stated he will investigate the problem and try to fix it over the next few days. You can access it here: www.academia.edu/42176281/Re_Testing_Plumbatae_Setting_the_Record_Straight_via_Experience_Experimentation_and_the_Examination_of_Historical_Sources
BTW, Pruett's darts look more elegant and lethal than the one shown here. This plumbata looks unaerodynamic with the thick shaft and the many thick leather fletchings.
I'm going to have to charge Mr. Pruett a PR fee, lol. What's the VAT on that?
Thank you. I've read that article a while back. Just some corrections: it is me talking not Lindybeige. The latter is interviewing me here at the event! Pruett's research is interesting but in my mind not conclusive.
@@TheWracked Thank you for the correction. He does point out that all the previous testing had major flaws and that false data has been propagated in the literature. I dare say that as more research is performed by competent testers, Pruett's work will stand up well. Certainly much more so than the work of Vermaat that now looks to be rather shoddy in comparison. To me, Pruett's findings are more compelling than anything else I've seen on the topic. Have a happy New Year!
@@stephaniedelmonico3058 You, too! Anything with advances our understanding of these weapons is always to be welcomed. Sadly, given the distance in time and our limited understanding of how they were used, I suspect all our research will always remain suggestive rather than conclusive.
@@TheWracked Thank you! And agreed, we can never absolutely know, so then we turn to preponderance of evidence and logic to inform our understanding. To me, Pruett's arguments, his dissection of previous works, his identification of underlying inadequacies in testing, the medical evidence, and his own testing using appropriate throwers shifts the weight of evidence to his side of the scale. Decidedly so.
Stay healthy and happy!
@@stephaniedelmonico3058 You, too!
LOVE THE MAILLE! is this 6-7mm ?? In the process of doing one myself ,but 14th century (yes I really like torture)
It is, yes. Butted, alas. I've since switched to proper 4th century mail now. Good luck with the torture, err, I mean making . . . !
interesting. what is the dating of these arrows? can you make a video how do you use it?
Late 3rd to about the 7th century. Might be tempted to make a video demonstrating actual range but then I'll end up breaking them!
Check out Tod's workshop, he recently did a video on this, range and damage test
@@astropolski Thanks - already seen it. It's a great video.
@@TheWracked yes it is :D
1:27 Ah, so the deepeka plumbata Skallagrim got was actually historically accurate?
As much as we know, yes.
what really interests me is when the fall happend in 476,and onwards towrds the crusades...I always wonder if a Western Roman Legion was formed to fight in a battle during the islamic invasions of france or the crusades...like a ghost Legion.
I have read somewhat into Herculiani heavy infantry,Raveena Elite Ballistarii and Scholae Palatinae making up a bulk of a Legion,could take on a crusader army and win....The roman Army was not only disciplined,but well equipped and tough fighters.
these two thoughts have crossed my mind,though...I'm sure not much has changed since the fall to the third crusades...as far as infantry and calvary go...and archers....
as I said Western Rome was way ahead of its enemies...
Its kind of like how knight armor gave way to no armor. Like yes the Pilum beats this in killing and destructive power. But this is much more economical to manufacture, easy to carry around and just imagine hundreds of people lobbing self righting lawn darts all over your formation.
Adult lawn darts... COOL!
Germans and Picts and... what was that third one?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacotti
@@TheWracked Thanks!
Form testudo?
Indeed.
It is just lindybiges video
I would assume that these weapons would be what you give the men who don't show any skills in the sling or the bow. These things look to be undersized lawn darts and if you were a kid during the era of lawn darts you could get fairly good at them in a weekend
What does he mean “burn it back into a fresh piece of wood?”
Was that Lindy beige asking a question?
I wonder what you could accomplish with a modified atlatl thrower with these plumbata
Interesting for an experiment. Have you heard of the Greek Kestrophetes? A throwing dart using a sling?
@@TheWracked I’ve heard of the ancient peoples of Ireland using a javelin with a rope tether type sling and I saw a thousand year old painting showing one. I’m guessing it was probably ubiquitous in the ancient world as adding energy to a thrown weapon is just a pretty good idea, I suspect
The original discombobulate.
Someone had to be!
This doesn't look too dissimilar to a kestros dart.
This plumbata example looks quite small and wimpy. If it were larger it would punch a hole in a helmet, nevermind a skull. I'd throw that overhand like a tomahawk that would self-right in flight.
Romans had the pilum which is basically a bigger version of this - one of its uses was to deprive enemies of their shields, as it would lodge into the shields and bend on impact, hindering removal and making the shield heavy and impractical to use.
Strange, you never seem the Romans using these in the movies.
most movies are early imperial period...I have seen very few during the 5th century ,but they used the wrong uniforms....in some...it would be nice if they made a few like last legion correctly....
also displaying the infantry ,calvary and missile units correctly for a battle or series of battle in a movie..or series of movies...like lord of the rings style...part 1 ,2and 3.
They were probably a bit bigger
Warum wirt da viel rum gelabert, können die nicht damit umgehen?
:D
Hopefully those crappy deepeeka plumbata
This is the third time RUclips has brought plumbata up to me in a month.
It's pretty cool but I have shotguns and rifles so I'm not super impressed after the first couple videos.
:)
I don't think this man really knows much. Not a killing weapon?? Bit of rust and dog shit they will die at some point. Also ancient warriors would have been trained to a high standard. I wonder if you could throw it like a spear and put a bit of spin in it as you let go.
Infection does not kill you fast enough. This weapon seemed to have been a compromise between economics and ease of use and quality. The pilum was definitely more destructive. But this was cheap and easy to manufacture and use. Just like muskets or crossbows were easy to use compared to a Longbow. And how that later led to bigger armies with less elites and plate armour.