Jonathan Pageau - I love the image! I wouldn't mind it being a bit shorter though, maybe ending with a downward cadence in the music + fade to black, instead of the upswelling music + fade to white (but that's just personal preference)
Yeah do your own research and conclude your OWN beliefs on all the knowlege you have gained....Thats the problem with the Catholic church.They force belief and satanic mass rituals down people throats while allowing the preists to steal little boy purity....Christianity should be taught by the words of Yeshua,not some skull dugger pope who does satanic rituals in a Massive mansion
I think a lot of us modern people take all the order and categories we see around us for granted. Most of us just assume the lights will come on when the switch is flipped, or the water will come on when the faucet turned. That we go to the store and food we want will be there. But our ancestors were figuring a lot of this out, and it took practice to become ordered, they literally had to practice (we still do as well of course) being ordered. And as anyone that has kids knows, ordering (naming and separating things) does not just happen naturally, it takes work. Great vid Jon.
Thanks really interesting, never heard the Christian perspective. If I may add some symbolic explanation to your image of Tzitzit. That one third of the Tzitzit strings are knotted, two- thirds are left to hang free as a lesson or rule in life that one measure of self-discipline will lead to a double measure of creative freedom.
Wow. I hadn't thought of that. What came to my mind was the practice of tying the knots and windings into the numerical name of God - God is what is found beyond the understandable and ordered.
Great video, Jonathan. This got me thinking about the nature of spiritual discernment. We need to learn, for instance, how to discern the difference between love and lust, virtue and vice, wisdom and folly, etc. If it's all a big amorphous clump of brown mud without clear distinctions, it would be as dangerous as planting hemlock in the midst of your parsley patch. Sorting things out clears up the confusion and could save a person's life.
I believe that yoking oxen and ass together is cruel. They have very different styles and being yoked together distresses them. I like the laws in order to better understand the culture, thank you for this presentation.
I simply do not understand how you only have 6k followers. I know it might seem shallow, but maybe have Doc P. give your YT channel a solid shout out when next you guys speak? I really believe many of his followers would love to be getting your information as well. I am one of them myself. Thanks for all you do!
Being a product of the enlightenment and therefore thinking primarily through the lense of rationalism has been in many ways a detriment to our living truly satisfied human lives. Much of what true life is , is mystical and symbolic. The recognition that my rational capabilities are limited and don't explain all aspects of life is a very healthy realization. Thanks for making videos that are something different Jonathan!
On the other hand, the number of children under 10 who die from diarrhoea has gone down quite nicely, and very few people starve to death each year compared to historical per capita rates. So there's that.
@@williamchamberlain2263 possibly my favourite scientist - Blaise Pascal (condered to be the father of mathematics) was extremely rational but also may be considered a "Christian Mystic". He had sown in his coat the words "the heart has its reasons which reason does not know". He had spiritual experiences which surpassed his rationale. Scripture speaks of truths and experience that surpass knowledge - like "a peace that passes understanding" or "know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge".
Rev. 3 Verses 14 to 17 [15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. [16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
" ... of course, there is never absolute purity; and that's really important because the desire for absolute purity is called pride [...] and in the Bible and in the Christian world view it is the root of all sin ... " (6:18) Well, that explains a lot.
why would the desire to be absolutely pure be pride?...is it because only Yah is absolutely pure? and if that is the answer- aren't we suppose to want to be just like him?... not greater than Him, but as good as Him?
@@mamaj8810, it's because we are incapable of it. When we try and enact absolute purity, we instead enforce legalization and corrupt ourselves. He will make us absolutely pure and restore us in His good time. Until then, we try to act in accordance with what purity we can by focussing first and foremost on His love(that we're receiving it and that we are to pour our overflow onto others).
@@terrencemedders1867 legalization is a man made concept. The desire to be pure like the father allows us to keep ourselves separate from the world and shows we are his. We are not incapable of being pure
Great summary of a difficult subject, Jonathan. I just finished reading your brothers book on Genesis. I can feel my perspective tilting away from materialism towards something truer, if somewhat frightening. Lord, have mercy!
Finally, the nit-picking Old Testament laws explained with reference to the separations we still understand. No one would consider putting a bathroom in a kitchen!
Jonathan, your mention of the robe woven in one piece-where it was buried with St. Sidonia in Georgia, a cypress tree grew up. I believe this tree later became the Immovable seventh pillar of a church. Myrrh flowed from this life giving pillar healing all who approached.
You always give me so much to think about on a much bigger scale. I look around at all the chaos right now and what you were talking about makes even more sense.
united and separate at the same time. This idea is something i consider when i contemplate my ideal vision of marriage. Now i am not currently married (god willing one day) but i often consider a marriage to be like an arch to a temple. Two pillars stand separate but strong, set upon the earth but reaching upward. Together they uphold the arch, or the firmament, the heavens perhaps, which can only be supported in such this way. And in that image you also have a trinity. Male, female, and spirit. thats all i have right now. 🦊🙏
This is a huge reason why we need continual studies in the Old Testament (not just in the popular books). There's all this wealth of knowledge we miss out on.
Orthodox Christians separate by foods by animal and vegetable during our periods of fasting. During Great Lent, we eat a vegetarian diet every day except Sunday when we can have fish. This is significant because every Sunday honors the Ressurection of Christ therefore it is a day set apart. Thank you, Jonathan
Bess Chakravarty .....the MESSIAH actually rose on the weekly 7th day sabbath not the 1st day of the week like the English bibles say. Most English bibles are badly mistranslated. The word there says sabbaton.
I have personally showed this to at least three people, Shared on FB also. I absolutely love this video and would LOVE to see more explanations of seemingly silly Levitical laws. Or, I would like to be equipped to find the symbolism, and deeper meaning to these laws.
This is excellent. Also, I think it's symbolic of how God cannot mix righteousness with sin- that's fundamental. It points to the requirement for a bodily resurrection in order to have true eternal Life.
The twisted threads separating four corners describes time as well. Day separate from night and its four turns (even, midnight, even, noon). The 89 to 92 days of each season. The 6 to 9 days of each lunar phase. Whereas the 24 hour day, 7 day week, 30 day month, and a leap every four years are man's approximate lies.
At around 6:20 you are talking about conceptual purity. I agree. The meanings of words should be kept sharp and distinct so that they are maximally useful. Maintaining distinctions helps us to speak accurately and succinctly. It bugs me that when people discuss language conservation versus innovation, and prescriptive versus descriptive linguistics people are vocal in defending description and condemning prescription or conservatism in language. I think you need both and that linguistic conservatism is needed to slow language change and preserve useful concepts. I think young, naive people dislike linguistic prescriptivism and conservatism because it's associated with being rude and proud, snobby and condescending about differences in education or social class, but I don't think that this is a necessary connection and we should not let the existence of linguistic snobbery blind us to the value of talking with a large, accurate vocabulary.
Nice, thanks. For me New Testament (not studying it) parables etc. made little sense until I heard it's explanation through (I guess) Buddhist, Taoist prism from Eckhart Tolle. And I think it's right. It would make sense that Universe would be explained universally by different people.
Pride is in part the belief that we are self-sufficient, that we do not need others, do not need God, that we are complete in ourselves, that is the pathology of purity.
Hello Jonathan, Thank you for your videos. I have been thinking about prayer and how praying works in my life. Kierkegaard has a quote which goes "The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." What is your understanding of prayer, how does it work for the christian and how does it relate to the providence of God, His divine intervention, miracles, praying for the sick, praying for other people? What does it mean to ask God for favors? Peace be with you, Mathias
I think praying is both to know yourself, to see what rises up from your heart, know your place in humbling yourself before the majesty of the Infinite God, and its highest function is theosis, to become fully one with God ( to extent to which it is possible) through an inner and outer movement of communion with Him. Healing, miracles, all of that can happen, but it is quite secondary to the nature of praying.
That was just beautiful, Jonathan. I also think of it as, your life is to be lived as a prayer, a constant seeking/letting go/embrace of union, which can only be realized by first pursuing a word-filled life. The kind folks at Bible dot org provide us with context: 2.7. The Prayer-Filled Life (Part 1) excerpt Psalm 119 teaches us the truth that, regardless of what life brings, God has given us two sources that are totally sufficient and contain everything we need: (a) We have God’s holy Word that gives us wisdom from God, and (b) we have the awesome privilege of prayer that brings the power of God into one’s life for strength, courage, endurance, and deliverance along with spiritual growth and change. First there is the way the Psalmist consistently turned his focus on the Lord rather than the problem he was facing at any given time, regardless of its nature. A second observation is his constant dependence on God to answer (lead, direct, sustain, deliver, etc.), but never just according to his own personal desires or wants. His prayer was that God would answer according to His Word. In at least fifteen places we have a clear contrast where the Psalmist calls out to God regarding a particular problem, but he always turns his gaze immediately to the Lord and His Word. He gets his eyes off the problem by keeping his eyes on the Lord through the Word. Second, though the concept of praying according to the Word is implicit throughout this Psalm, some 15 or more times the Psalmist specifically makes his requests dependent on the principles of God’s Word with phrases such as, “according to Thy Word.” The Psalmist was not simply praying, help me because you have promised in the Word to do so. For the Psalmist, prayer wasn’t just a matter of “naming and claiming.” Rather, he was praying that God’s purposes and plan might be accomplished in his life. He wanted God’s deliverance, of course, but in ways that would honor the Lord and produce spiritual change and growth in his own life. Psalm 119 is one prayer after another, but always according to the principles, purposes, and directives of the Word. Note in verses 59, 67, 71, 75 and 133 how the Psalmist was committed to what God was doing in his life and this commitment controlled and directed the way he prayed. Third, repeatedly the Psalmist prayed for insight and ability to both understand and apply God’s Word. He recognized his complete inability to properly understand and respond in faithful obedience apart from the work of God. Verses 17-19, 26, and 33-38 will illustrate the point. Further, the Psalmist teaches us that the Word and prayer are like inseparable twins because, as the Word reveals God, His all-sufficiency, infinite goodness, love, mercy, and grace, it also reveals man in his insufficiency and total need. But in the process of this, God also offers man the opportunity (through His revealed plan of salvation in the Savior) to come humbly to Him in prayer for His direction and supply. 2.6. The Word-Filled Life - Developing the Mind of Christ excerpt The Bible is the Christian’s resource book, his manual for living, the light to his path, and the index for faith and practice. The Bible is God’s Word-His special revelation by which man is to cleanse and direct his way. As God’s revelation to man, it teaches man things he absolutely cannot learn about life and death apart from this very special revelation as Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 2:9-10. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10 But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. Psalm 119:9-11 How can a young person maintain a pure lifestyle? By following your instructions! 10 With all my heart I seek you. Do not allow me to stray from your commands! 11 In my heart I store up your words, so I might not sin against you.
Well Jonathan, this was simply the most deep and fascinating talk (I guess you could call it), I've ever heard! If only sermons in churches were like that.
I've heard Priests give pretty decent homilies that explain some things quite well. Maybe not in this kind of depth, but you can't expect the Priest to give a University level course to the laity, I don't think.
Sure, I'm certain there are such priests. I've experienced only "charismatic" protestant sermons. That may explain my initial comment. This is also why i don't go to church - the sermons weren't very stimulating. If I were ever to resume, I'd try orthodox or catholic.
I can understand that. I'm Catholic and so don't know as much about Protestant Christianity, but from what I can tell certain more Evangelical branches seem to have a more literalist interpretation, insofar as I can tell. And the second part of my comment wound up sounding more snarky than I wanted it to. I meant to say more that certain people might not get it if it were too analytical, and some Priests don't have the ability to do that anyway. But yeah, I would definitely recommend checking out a Catholic or Orthodox Church at some point.
Hi Jonathan, thanks for another great video. I feel like I'm getting a better handle on the symbolic landscape of the Bible. I was wondering if you could comment on the modern conflict/confusion between worldviews, cultures, and religious traditions - how do you see this multiciplicty being properly reconciled in the future?
This was great, man. My parents taught me to look for applicability in literature since I was young, and this is like finding the biggest fish in the pond. On another note, I went to a public conversation between two former believers, respectively Christianity and Islam, and this was one of the things one of them listed as ridiculous and illogical, or unbelievable. It seems that verses like these (weirdly specific and harsh rules) especially come under skepticism from the majority as liberation of all kinds becomes more and more stressed. One of the speakers is a contemporary author and the other is a medical doctor and head member of Amnesty over here (and neither of them managed to use their microphones properly!). So a little bit worrisome, maybe. Not dangerous, of course. Anyway, entranced from first second! Greetings from Norway.
Yes, I have heard this used many times in arguments by atheists, and so I thought it was important to deal with it. Hopefully Matthieu and I will go through most of these types of objections one by one.
People forget that there is a veiled sense of the Law and the unveiled sense in Christ. You have to drill down to reach the aquifer, and Jonathan is obviously a driller with access to some deep insights.
I enjoyed the video as it was very informative and interesting. One note though, you might want to invest in a pop filter, the noise is somewhat jarring with earbuds. Thank you for the video!
Purity isn't just raw disgust at potentially disease carrying things, like bodily fluids. It has cognitive content: something is out of its proper place. Things which are perfectly pure in their place become impure by being out of place. Blood in the veins is pure, but outside it becomes defiling. The saliva from your wife's mouth is pure when you are kissing her, but becomes impure if she spits it out. Dirt can be good clean dirt in the field, but dirty dirt in the house. We even see this in the words for sin in the Old and New Testaments, which both mean "missing the mark." What this also means is that purity depends on a teleological view of the world. Particular things in the world have to have purposes, a proper use, if being "out of place" has any meaning. And a teleological view of the world is a religious and hierarchical view of the world. Those purposes have to be the purposes of some personal being, and some states of affairs have to be preferable to others.
One intersting thing i've understandment of is that 'rabbi' is very close to 'archer' in Hebrew. Heard once lecture on Kabbalah where lecturer said that text says archer when it's supposed to be rabbi, and he sort of scoffed it off as a mistake while to me it seemed clear that they are related. Boy, did i feel myself smart at that point!
Conservative people usually have a higher disgust sensitivity than liberals. It acts as a sociological immune system against foreign "pathogens". the way I see it is we need both types of people.
@Rex Erection My understanding is on these terms- when do you spit? If you have a foul taste or if you want to demean someone. The spit is not serving its natural purpose outside of your body.
Mixing fabrics is about frequency.....frequency is what heals or makes us sick. Fabrics have healing FREQUENCIES but cancel each other's frequencies out when mixed or worn together. Very simple. YHWH knows what he's talking about and we shouldn't question it
Hello Jonathan, I had read these "separation" commandments as being part of Israel keeping themselves pure from Gentile taint, but only in a kind of "any arbitrary rules will help you divide things" way. I hadn't really given them any more attention. Now, even on the surface, it's more, "Use this rule about properly dividing things to help you properly divide yourself from the Gentiles", which is beautifully recursive. But much more deeply, I'd never seen the parallel to Genesis, which I'm now finding tremendously potent. Instead of being arbitrary rules, now they read like participation with the Logos in the ongoing Work of Creation. So... yeah. Thank you for the thought-provocation!
For certain the Ox and the Ass is interpreted in both Christian and Jewish sources as referring specifically to that, St-Paul even repeats it in a Christian context when he says that we should not be "yoked" to unbelievers, he is referring to this law. The article I wrote on the ox and the ass in the nativity icon explores some of the sources.. I have found it is always most rewarding to read the Bible with the presupposition that nothing is arbitrary, though sometimes we cannot see the structure. For certain there are a huge amount of things in the Bible which are difficult for me to see properly.
Remember me? I figure here's as good a place as any to renew our fruitful discussion, as you've done with your other subscribers after the loss of your comments. Actually, the topic and timing of this video are almost shockingly appropriate. I recently started college at a Progressive-leaning American university. Knowing yours and Dr. Peterson's thoughts on the current state of academia (with which I don't fully agree), I didn't think I'd have anything to offer you. I was pleasantly surprised then, when my Near Eastern Studies professor began the class by saying, Firstly, that there was no distinction between science and religion in The Biblical authors' worldview, and to insert one would be anachronistic. Secondly, the Purity laws were not about power and systems of control, and the readings of hygiene concerns reflect the prejudices of earlier anthropologists. Your video reminded me that, although I already knew under the Documentary Hypothesis, the Purity laws were written by the same hand that wrote the Gen. 1 Creation story, prior to this class, I don't believe I'd ever heard it expressly formulated that the laws are an echo of the Created Order. Apparently, this perspective was established in secular scholarly circles by Mary Douglas in her article "The Abominations of Leviticus." Douglas holds that the Levitical laws reflect a complex mystical worldview from the modern Western world is, consciously at least, distant from (apologies if you've read her already). I've been meaning to speak on the bathroom question (and related issues) for a while now. Firstly, may I say that your stance on nonbinary genders seems more permissive and/or inclusive than Dr. Peterson's? Your joint talk on the Metaphysics of Pepe discussed avenues I'd never heard him address alone, particularly on the subjects of marginality and liminality. His discussion with Theryn Meyer alluded to similar potential for "something in between" in addition to male and female, with terms for that condition varying from culture to culture. There is some significant support for such liminal identities in the Ancient Near East, principally in the form of sarisim or eunuchs, who transgress the boundaries between men and women. See also: www.academia.edu/31589314/Men_in_Question_Parallel_Aspects_of_Ambiguous_Masculinities_in_Mesopotamian_and_Biblical_Sources
I don't know if my stance is more permissive, in traditional societies there tended to be three genders: male, female, and something like eunuch which characterizes anything that is in between. In St-Maximos the confessor, the third gender is called "the extreme", and both contains all the in-between people as well as monks. So much in my videos is there to help people see that there is the norm, in this case, male and female, as well as the exception. The thing is that the exception needs to remain an exception and not attempt to become the norm. Jordan has mentioned that there is no telling what he would be willing to do to accommodate someone dealing with transgender issues on a private level, his problem is how the exception is currently attempting to smash the normative binary. In the end I think he is saying the same as what I am saying though with different terms.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. Thank you as well for making that statement about traditional societies, the figure of the eunuch is quite important to me. I was familiar with St. Maximos The Confessor courtesy of your talk at the Resurrection of Logos (or perhaps logoi, wink wink). I have since developed a great interest in his work, as I feel it provides a useful praxis for dealing with the complexities of identity in a manner that is faithful to Tradition. Exception and norm is a valid distinction to make, but one must be careful not to create a sense of affixing a value judgement to normativity or marginality. As regards your point on Dr. Peterson, I think there's an important semantic distinction that needs to be drawn, between transgenderism and a/bi/pangenderism. When I first heard of his controversial remarks on pronouns, the articles I initially read seem to have been under the impression that they had been directed at a trans* student, rather than a nonbinary one (i.e. necessitating different, neologistic, pronouns). While I do not doubt the applicability of what you've said as far as trans* students, Dr. Peterson seems to address the question of Third Gender people less often. I agree also on not needing to smash the normative binary It occurs to me that I have a couple more insights from the professor of mine I mentioned in my initial comment. She has, in all but name, referred to the phenomenon of Emergence. Firstly, she did so with regard to the Beth Av ("The House of The Father") as a fractally recurring organizing principle in Ancient Near Eastern societies. Secondly, she alluded to it in terms of the intertwined symbolic used for God, (earthly) fathers, and kings.
The parish is always trying to make the sacramental life of the church visible to everyone through beautiful photography (usually taken by parishioner Ken Hoglund). Fr Justin seemed very happy when I told him about it. Lucky me I noticed as I was listening to your podcast while doing other work-and happened to be looking up at the right time. Thanks for blessing all of us with your knowledge!
Hey Bryan, can you email me, I have something to discuss with you. There is a lady who is interested in Orthodoxy from your town and is not sure where to go. pageaujonathan at gmail dot com
This is highly interesting and enlightening. Thank you Jonathan. Some questions came to mind concerning things I'm struggling to understand. For one, I need help with reconciling the fact that: (1) the mixing of the wool and the cloth is considered the chaotic fringe, with (2) the symbolism of Christ entails the necessity of transcending the problem of keeping things fully separate How does this not also make Christ a symbol of the chaotic fringe (a fringe which somehow seems both suboptimal and necessary)? Secondly, if the purity laws are meant to transfer a mode of being to its keepers (a mode of being which seems absolutely fundamental to human existence from the perspective of symbolism/phenomenology), then why so did Christians abandon the laws covered inthis video? How is that in keeping with the message entailed in Genesis about the importance/necessity of keeping things separate?
15:00 oh dear - you were almost coherent up till here. Just going to point out that the jubilee year and the fallow year are both really sub-optimal ways of solving the problem of debt and fertility - the jubilee year is really easy to game and also leads to credit restrictions in the years leading up to it, and any cover crop at all is better than just letting weeds grow and hoping that the animals will eat enough to keep the seed bank low. Similar to the dismal state of metallurgy in the region, the strict laws of separation are social and mythological reactions to scarcity and lack of understanding, carefully guarding who gets a slice of the pie rather than making the pie bigger.
It'd be curious the relationship (if any) of the kosher laws and the current fasting laws, as well as the continued prohibition on the consumption of blood you mention in other places.
These have always been the parts of the Bible that I’ve struggled with, the earthly laws. The heavenly parts make perfect sense, but the Earthly laws are complicated and don’t necessarily seem like they belong in the same book as the heavenly laws
I like your new intro. Comment: this concept of separation was used in my faith tradition to forbid people of two different races from marrying (though they were not "Foreigners" to one another, nor from different "nations.") I see in the scriptures some very clear boundaries/separations, but then mechanisms or protocols for joining things. So foreigners could become Jews. Ruth marries Boaz and ends up in the lineage of Jesus. Deborah ends up being a prophetess despite her gender generally not playing this part. Peter being told to eat unkosher, and with Gentiles. Timothy not being required to circumcise. Jesus talking to Samaritans and Romans. I'm not arguing against the idea of separations, but thinking (without a lot of conclusive thoughts) about the fact that there seems to be a opposite side to it too. I mean, growing up, my sister was literally not allowed to wear trousers of any kind, as these were thought of as "men's clothing," and I always wondered about the fact that I could wear a cotton polyester blend. And as for my church group, it strongly discouraged us from reading books by, or hanging out with Christians, and certainly marrying anyone, from outside our narrow little isolationist group. So this topic is a bit fraught for me. I can't dismiss it and say "we don't need distinctions of night from day, of up from down, of solid from liquid, of nutritious from poisonous, of good from evil." But I guess I need to understand how the doctrinal equivalent of the genocidal drive toward "100% purity" can be balanced by its opposite. And what God intends as to Christians who are neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female.
The answer is love. Love is the possibility of unity and separateness at the same time. The problem with the question of 'race" is that it is a silly materialistic interpretation. In most Christian churches it is not allowed to marry someone that is not a Christian, at least not marry them in the Church. That is a restating of separation laws but without the notion of race or peoples but rather as originating in our attachment to Christ.
As a historical matter it's important to understand why these were individual rules too: Moses spent like 5 minutes talking to God and the Hebrews were already dissolving into the pagan world.
Hey Dude I be trying to share this same intellect You are appreciated You're doing great as long as your genuinely being yourself buddy , don't worry about what others think. 👍 Thanks for you spirit kin spirits
Cotton does shrink, but it’s a mechanical process and stops after a couple of washings. Wool can shrink to a practically infinite degree as the fibers “bloom” and interlock with each other at every washing. Linen does not shrink to a significant degree, the threads are smooth and strong and can wear through wool if used to sew it. Wool “thread” (yarn) is more or less stretchy, seams will shrink relative to cotton or linen fabric. Cotton thread is less resistant to abrasion than linen, seams will soon break. There are degrees of difference according to how each fiber might be spun/woven, how fabrics would be used, lots of exceptions to the rules; it’s a complex subject.
06:22 Titus 1:15 _To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted._ Genesis 35:2 _So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change your clothes. Then come, let us go up to Bethel, where I will build an altar to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and who has been with me wherever I have gone.”_ James 4:8 _Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded._ Galatians 4:30 _But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”_ Revelation 18:4 _Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;_ 2 Corinthians 7:1 _Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates _*_body and spirit,_*_ perfecting holiness out of reverence for God._
Do all these commandments about not mixing and confusing things apply to plant-based meat substitutes? Cuz I can't help feeling like the current craze for these is a cosmic aberration...
In the book of Acts chapter 2 there is a moving of the holy spirit which causes the people in the room to speak with tongues. It seems the symbolism of tongues could be used both as a means to divide (tower of Babel) and unite. Would you be able to give any more insight into this "upper room experience" phenomenon?
It is often described by the Church Fathers as being the 'anti-Babel', that is the tongues of fire, the tongues that separate in that case made it possible for the one spirit, the one message of Christ to be heard by all men. This is the dance between unity and multiplicity which characterizes Christianity.
The Shepherd must Separate the Sheep from the Wolves in order to keep the Sheep United and must Unite the Sheep to keep them Separated from the Wolves.
It’s not only the creepy hybrids and the bathroom issues - the abandoning of inappropriate crossover has begotten the abomination my dad calls a “momelette”. Chicken omelettes are crime against nature.
would we then say that keeping or allowing a bad street in our city, of villainy and vice, would be congruent with these ideas? Perhaps in knowledge that by not doing that, these days, has turned the bad street into all our streets at certain times instead. Without a designated fringe the fringe spills over our cities in pulses.
Jonathan. I am struck by how almost Zen Buddhist you make this all sound. How do you feel about that connection? Specifically surrounding the idea of early Christianity playing at the duality of meaning with the shroud. But instead of questioning it and striving to understand it, instead accepting and submitting to it. That's kind of a weird thought. I have no idea what to think of this.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
Tell me all what you think of my new intro!
Jonathan Pageau - I love the image! I wouldn't mind it being a bit shorter though, maybe ending with a downward cadence in the music + fade to black, instead of the upswelling music + fade to white (but that's just personal preference)
Here I was trying to be positive :) I will keep that in mind for length though, I might indeed try to make it shorter.
It works!
I've been known for being pretentious, so something to ponder...
I just love it. Easter Overture? Are you kidding me? The best choice ever.
Fascinating stuff. The more I dive into faith and Christianity, the more I realize how little i know about these things.
Yeah do your own research and conclude your OWN beliefs on all the knowlege you have gained....Thats the problem with the Catholic church.They force belief and satanic mass rituals down people throats while allowing the preists to steal little boy purity....Christianity should be taught by the words of Yeshua,not some skull dugger pope who does satanic rituals in a Massive mansion
@@jaythenotsogreat3245 Oh, go jump in a lake, you anti-Catholic bigot. You are both hateful and blatantly ignorant.
I think a lot of us modern people take all the order and categories we see around us for granted. Most of us just assume the lights will come on when the switch is flipped, or the water will come on when the faucet turned. That we go to the store and food we want will be there. But our ancestors were figuring a lot of this out, and it took practice to become ordered, they literally had to practice (we still do as well of course) being ordered. And as anyone that has kids knows, ordering (naming and separating things) does not just happen naturally, it takes work. Great vid Jon.
We got a mild lesson this year. #isurvivedtpcrisis2020
Mindfullness
Thanks really interesting, never heard the Christian perspective. If I may add some symbolic explanation to your image of Tzitzit. That one third of the Tzitzit strings are knotted, two- thirds are left to hang free as a lesson or rule in life that one measure of self-discipline will lead to a double measure of creative freedom.
Wow. I hadn't thought of that. What came to my mind was the practice of tying the knots and windings into the numerical name of God - God is what is found beyond the understandable and ordered.
So who knew - this was the deep secret meaning behind the Offspring song "You Gotta Keep 'em Separated"...
Great video, Jonathan. This got me thinking about the nature of spiritual discernment. We need to learn, for instance, how to discern the difference between love and lust, virtue and vice, wisdom and folly, etc. If it's all a big amorphous clump of brown mud without clear distinctions, it would be as dangerous as planting hemlock in the midst of your parsley patch. Sorting things out clears up the confusion and could save a person's life.
I'm gonna have to watch this class at least 3 more times before I fully assimilate it's message.
I believe that yoking oxen and ass together is cruel. They have very different styles and being yoked together distresses them.
I like the laws in order to better understand the culture, thank you for this presentation.
I simply do not understand how you only have 6k followers. I know it might seem shallow, but maybe have Doc P. give your YT channel a solid shout out when next you guys speak? I really believe many of his followers would love to be getting your information as well. I am one of them myself. Thanks for all you do!
Agreed - I wish I had found this content a year ago!
He has more subscribers now!
Super mind expanding information- this is the kind of stuff I search hard to find! Great analysis.
Being a product of the enlightenment and therefore thinking primarily through the lense of rationalism has been in many ways a detriment to our living truly satisfied human lives. Much of what true life is , is mystical and symbolic. The recognition that my rational capabilities are limited and don't explain all aspects of life is a very healthy realization.
Thanks for making videos that are something different Jonathan!
On the other hand, the number of children under 10 who die from diarrhoea has gone down quite nicely, and very few people starve to death each year compared to historical per capita rates. So there's that.
@@williamchamberlain2263 possibly my favourite scientist - Blaise Pascal (condered to be the father of mathematics) was extremely rational but also may be considered a "Christian Mystic". He had sown in his coat the words "the heart has its reasons which reason does not know". He had spiritual experiences which surpassed his rationale. Scripture speaks of truths and experience that surpass knowledge - like "a peace that passes understanding" or "know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge".
This is great! Thank you for bringing clarity into an otherwise dense and hard interpret material. May the Logos be with you.
Rev. 3 Verses 14 to 17
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. [16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
" ... of course, there is never absolute purity; and that's really important because the desire for absolute purity is called pride [...] and in the Bible and in the Christian world view it is the root of all sin ... " (6:18) Well, that explains a lot.
why would the desire to be absolutely pure be pride?...is it because only Yah is absolutely pure? and if that is the answer- aren't we suppose to want to be just like him?... not greater than Him, but as good as Him?
@@mamaj8810, it's because we are incapable of it. When we try and enact absolute purity, we instead enforce legalization and corrupt ourselves. He will make us absolutely pure and restore us in His good time. Until then, we try to act in accordance with what purity we can by focussing first and foremost on His love(that we're receiving it and that we are to pour our overflow onto others).
@@terrencemedders1867 this is not true
@@codyalexander3290, I definitely disagree. In what way?
@@terrencemedders1867 legalization is a man made concept. The desire to be pure like the father allows us to keep ourselves separate from the world and shows we are his. We are not incapable of being pure
Great summary of a difficult subject, Jonathan. I just finished reading your brothers book on Genesis. I can feel my perspective tilting away from materialism towards something truer, if somewhat frightening. Lord, have mercy!
This is the video that got me to really understand symbolic language. Your best work IMO, which keeps me coming back. Well done!
Finally, the nit-picking Old Testament laws explained with reference to the separations we still understand. No one would consider putting a bathroom in a kitchen!
I really liked the intro, was pleasently surprised when I saw that style ( or aesthetic? ) used in the intro!
I wish I had a full length version of that intro music.
This is the most amazing video I've seen this year! Thanks and greetings from South Africa!
Jonathan, your mention of the robe woven in one piece-where it was buried with St. Sidonia in Georgia, a cypress tree grew up. I believe this tree later became the Immovable seventh pillar of a church. Myrrh flowed from this life giving pillar healing all who approached.
You always give me so much to think about on a much bigger scale. I look around at all the chaos right now and what you were talking about makes even more sense.
united and separate at the same time.
This idea is something i consider when i contemplate my ideal vision of marriage. Now i am not currently married (god willing one day) but i often consider a marriage to be like an arch to a temple. Two pillars stand separate but strong, set upon the earth but reaching upward. Together they uphold the arch, or the firmament, the heavens perhaps, which can only be supported in such this way. And in that image you also have a trinity. Male, female, and spirit.
thats all i have right now.
🦊🙏
This is a huge reason why we need continual studies in the Old Testament (not just in the popular books). There's all this wealth of knowledge we miss out on.
Orthodox Christians separate by foods by animal and vegetable during our periods of fasting. During Great Lent, we eat a vegetarian diet every day except Sunday when we can have fish. This is significant because every Sunday honors the Ressurection of Christ therefore it is a day set apart. Thank you, Jonathan
Good to see you here, Bess.
Bess Chakravarty .....the MESSIAH actually rose on the weekly 7th day sabbath not the 1st day of the week like the English bibles say. Most English bibles are badly mistranslated. The word there says sabbaton.
yes, I was going to say the same thing to Bess.
Guard G-DS Commandments. Nope.
@@TorahisthetruthPsalms What information is your argument based on?
Very Cool. Always enjoy the perspective you bring to a conversation.
This lecture could be hyperlinked to Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind," chapter on Sanctity/Degradation.
Great video, and the intro is really nice. Greetings from Sweden.
This harkens back to the constant inversion in modern culture.. The darkness is calling. Thank you for all of your work and sharing. Peace and Love
I have personally showed this to at least three people, Shared on FB also. I absolutely love this video and would LOVE to see more explanations of seemingly silly Levitical laws. Or, I would like to be equipped to find the symbolism, and deeper meaning to these laws.
I love your channel. New fan from Montreal
This is excellent. Also, I think it's symbolic of how God cannot mix righteousness with sin- that's fundamental. It points to the requirement for a bodily resurrection in order to have true eternal Life.
The three twisted threads of Zarasthustra remind us of good thoughts, good speech, and good deeds.
Starting at 16:00 that was such a well put idea about keeping things separate or else things chaos completely takes over
The twisted threads separating four corners describes time as well. Day separate from night and its four turns (even, midnight, even, noon). The 89 to 92 days of each season. The 6 to 9 days of each lunar phase. Whereas the 24 hour day, 7 day week, 30 day month, and a leap every four years are man's approximate lies.
Yes! Nice intro. Maybe make the images during the talk full screen.
At around 6:20 you are talking about conceptual purity. I agree.
The meanings of words should be kept sharp and distinct so that they are maximally useful. Maintaining distinctions helps us to speak accurately and succinctly.
It bugs me that when people discuss language conservation versus innovation, and prescriptive versus descriptive linguistics people are vocal in defending description and condemning prescription or conservatism in language. I think you need both and that linguistic conservatism is needed to slow language change and preserve useful concepts.
I think young, naive people dislike linguistic prescriptivism and conservatism because it's associated with being rude and proud, snobby and condescending about differences in education or social class, but I don't think that this is a necessary connection and we should not let the existence of linguistic snobbery blind us to the value of talking with a large, accurate vocabulary.
Amazing. Eye-opening.
Thank you for explaining. I always wondered, what that was all about.
Nice, thanks.
For me New Testament (not studying it) parables etc. made little sense until I heard it's explanation through (I guess) Buddhist, Taoist prism from Eckhart Tolle.
And I think it's right. It would make sense that Universe would be explained universally by different people.
Incredibly useful.
This reminds me a "forbidden knowledge" concept described by Roger Shattuck.
Amazing content, thank you so much!!! ❤️
The garment is called a tallit and the fringe is called the tzitzit (it is normally twisted knotted).
Interesting video! Though I was hoping you'd expand on what you meant by "the desire for absolute purity is called pride."
Pride is in part the belief that we are self-sufficient, that we do not need others, do not need God, that we are complete in ourselves, that is the pathology of purity.
@@JonathanPageau mix that with Christianity and you get Pelagianism.
Hello Jonathan,
Thank you for your videos. I have been thinking about prayer and how praying works in my life. Kierkegaard has a quote which goes "The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." What is your understanding of prayer, how does it work for the christian and how does it relate to the providence of God, His divine intervention, miracles, praying for the sick, praying for other people? What does it mean to ask God for favors?
Peace be with you,
Mathias
I think praying is both to know yourself, to see what rises up from your heart, know your place in humbling yourself before the majesty of the Infinite God, and its highest function is theosis, to become fully one with God ( to extent to which it is possible) through an inner and outer movement of communion with Him. Healing, miracles, all of that can happen, but it is quite secondary to the nature of praying.
That was just beautiful, Jonathan. I also think of it as, your life is to be lived as a prayer, a constant seeking/letting go/embrace of union, which can only be realized by first pursuing a word-filled life.
The kind folks at Bible dot org provide us with context:
2.7. The Prayer-Filled Life (Part 1)
excerpt
Psalm 119 teaches us the truth that, regardless of what life brings, God has given us two sources that are totally sufficient and contain everything we need: (a) We have God’s holy Word that gives us wisdom from God, and (b) we have the awesome privilege of prayer that brings the power of God into one’s life for strength, courage, endurance, and deliverance along with spiritual growth and change.
First there is the way the Psalmist consistently turned his focus on the Lord rather than the problem he was facing at any given time, regardless of its nature. A second observation is his constant dependence on God to answer (lead, direct, sustain, deliver, etc.), but never just according to his own personal desires or wants. His prayer was that God would answer according to His Word.
In at least fifteen places we have a clear contrast where the Psalmist calls out to God regarding a particular problem, but he always turns his gaze immediately to the Lord and His Word. He gets his eyes off the problem by keeping his eyes on the Lord through the Word.
Second, though the concept of praying according to the Word is implicit throughout this Psalm, some 15 or more times the Psalmist specifically makes his requests dependent on the principles of God’s Word with phrases such as, “according to Thy Word.”
The Psalmist was not simply praying, help me because you have promised in the Word to do so. For the Psalmist, prayer wasn’t just a matter of “naming and claiming.” Rather, he was praying that God’s purposes and plan might be accomplished in his life. He wanted God’s deliverance, of course, but in ways that would honor the Lord and produce spiritual change and growth in his own life. Psalm 119 is one prayer after another, but always according to the principles, purposes, and directives of the Word. Note in verses 59, 67, 71, 75 and 133 how the Psalmist was committed to what God was doing in his life and this commitment controlled and directed the way he prayed.
Third, repeatedly the Psalmist prayed for insight and ability to both understand and apply God’s Word. He recognized his complete inability to properly understand and respond in faithful obedience apart from the work of God. Verses 17-19, 26, and 33-38 will illustrate the point.
Further, the Psalmist teaches us that the Word and prayer are like inseparable twins because, as the Word reveals God, His all-sufficiency, infinite goodness, love, mercy, and grace, it also reveals man in his insufficiency and total need. But in the process of this, God also offers man the opportunity (through His revealed plan of salvation in the Savior) to come humbly to Him in prayer for His direction and supply.
2.6. The Word-Filled Life - Developing the Mind of Christ
excerpt
The Bible is the Christian’s resource book, his manual for living, the light to his path, and the index for faith and practice. The Bible is God’s Word-His special revelation by which man is to cleanse and direct his way. As God’s revelation to man, it teaches man things he absolutely cannot learn about life and death apart from this very special revelation as Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 2:9-10.
1 Corinthians 2:9-10 But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
Psalm 119:9-11 How can a young person maintain a pure lifestyle?
By following your instructions!
10 With all my heart I seek you.
Do not allow me to stray from your commands!
11 In my heart I store up your words,
so I might not sin against you.
Well Jonathan, this was simply the most deep and fascinating talk (I guess you could call it), I've ever heard! If only sermons in churches were like that.
I've heard Priests give pretty decent homilies that explain some things quite well. Maybe not in this kind of depth, but you can't expect the Priest to give a University level course to the laity, I don't think.
Sure, I'm certain there are such priests. I've experienced only "charismatic" protestant sermons. That may explain my initial comment. This is also why i don't go to church - the sermons weren't very stimulating. If I were ever to resume, I'd try orthodox or catholic.
I can understand that. I'm Catholic and so don't know as much about Protestant Christianity, but from what I can tell certain more Evangelical branches seem to have a more literalist interpretation, insofar as I can tell. And the second part of my comment wound up sounding more snarky than I wanted it to. I meant to say more that certain people might not get it if it were too analytical, and some Priests don't have the ability to do that anyway. But yeah, I would definitely recommend checking out a Catholic or Orthodox Church at some point.
Reminds me when I was learning a little Hebrew and found out the root of the word thought implied strings, carpeted floors, and weaving
Hi Jonathan, thanks for another great video. I feel like I'm getting a better handle on the symbolic landscape of the Bible.
I was wondering if you could comment on the modern
conflict/confusion between worldviews, cultures, and religious traditions - how do you see this multiciplicty being properly reconciled in the future?
Seeing basic patterns and their universal structures is one possible solution for the future.
This was great, man. My parents taught me to look for applicability in literature since I was young, and this is like finding the biggest fish in the pond. On another note, I went to a public conversation between two former believers, respectively Christianity and Islam, and this was one of the things one of them listed as ridiculous and illogical, or unbelievable. It seems that verses like these (weirdly specific and harsh rules) especially come under skepticism from the majority as liberation of all kinds becomes more and more stressed. One of the speakers is a contemporary author and the other is a medical doctor and head member of Amnesty over here (and neither of them managed to use their microphones properly!). So a little bit worrisome, maybe. Not dangerous, of course.
Anyway, entranced from first second! Greetings from Norway.
Yes, I have heard this used many times in arguments by atheists, and so I thought it was important to deal with it. Hopefully Matthieu and I will go through most of these types of objections one by one.
People forget that there is a veiled sense of the Law and the unveiled sense in Christ. You have to drill down to reach the aquifer, and Jonathan is obviously a driller with access to some deep insights.
I enjoyed the video as it was very informative and interesting. One note though, you might want to invest in a pop filter, the noise is somewhat jarring with earbuds. Thank you for the video!
Ha. Yes, I noticed that, and did indeed get, actually make a pop filter, so hopefully the sound will be better in the next video.
Your Best video yet.
I am still confused as to whether I should not wear various types of material together (wool and linen or cotton and wool)
I have heard that mixing ancient flax and wool cause a friction that causes chronic fatigue. Have you heard this?
Purity isn't just raw disgust at potentially disease carrying things, like bodily fluids. It has cognitive content: something is out of its proper place. Things which are perfectly pure in their place become impure by being out of place. Blood in the veins is pure, but outside it becomes defiling. The saliva from your wife's mouth is pure when you are kissing her, but becomes impure if she spits it out. Dirt can be good clean dirt in the field, but dirty dirt in the house. We even see this in the words for sin in the Old and New Testaments, which both mean "missing the mark."
What this also means is that purity depends on a teleological view of the world. Particular things in the world have to have purposes, a proper use, if being "out of place" has any meaning. And a teleological view of the world is a religious and hierarchical view of the world. Those purposes have to be the purposes of some personal being, and some states of affairs have to be preferable to others.
Have you read Catholic anthropologist Mary Douglas' book Purity and Danger? It's an essential study of this kind of thing.
One intersting thing i've understandment of is that 'rabbi' is very close to 'archer' in Hebrew. Heard once lecture on Kabbalah where lecturer said that text says archer when it's supposed to be rabbi, and he sort of scoffed it off as a mistake while to me it seemed clear that they are related. Boy, did i feel myself smart at that point!
Conservative people usually have a higher disgust sensitivity than liberals. It acts as a sociological immune system against foreign "pathogens". the way I see it is we need both types of people.
@Rex Erection My understanding is on these terms- when do you spit? If you have a foul taste or if you want to demean someone. The spit is not serving its natural purpose outside of your body.
Mixing fabrics is about frequency.....frequency is what heals or makes us sick. Fabrics have healing FREQUENCIES but cancel each other's frequencies out when mixed or worn together. Very simple. YHWH knows what he's talking about and we shouldn't question it
Can you list in your credits the music, I love it.
Hello Jonathan,
I had read these "separation" commandments as being part of Israel keeping themselves pure from Gentile taint, but only in a kind of "any arbitrary rules will help you divide things" way. I hadn't really given them any more attention.
Now, even on the surface, it's more, "Use this rule about properly dividing things to help you properly divide yourself from the Gentiles", which is beautifully recursive.
But much more deeply, I'd never seen the parallel to Genesis, which I'm now finding tremendously potent. Instead of being arbitrary rules, now they read like participation with the Logos in the ongoing Work of Creation.
So... yeah. Thank you for the thought-provocation!
For certain the Ox and the Ass is interpreted in both Christian and Jewish sources as referring specifically to that, St-Paul even repeats it in a Christian context when he says that we should not be "yoked" to unbelievers, he is referring to this law. The article I wrote on the ox and the ass in the nativity icon explores some of the sources.. I have found it is always most rewarding to read the Bible with the presupposition that nothing is arbitrary, though sometimes we cannot see the structure. For certain there are a huge amount of things in the Bible which are difficult for me to see properly.
Remember me? I figure here's as good a place as any to renew our fruitful discussion, as you've done with your other subscribers after the loss of your comments.
Actually, the topic and timing of this video are almost shockingly appropriate. I recently started college at a Progressive-leaning American university. Knowing yours and Dr. Peterson's thoughts on the current state of academia (with which I don't fully agree), I didn't think I'd have anything to offer you. I was pleasantly surprised then, when my Near Eastern Studies professor began the class by saying,
Firstly, that there was no distinction between science and religion in The Biblical authors' worldview, and to insert one would be anachronistic. Secondly, the Purity laws were not about power and systems of control, and the readings of hygiene concerns reflect the prejudices of earlier anthropologists. Your video reminded me that, although I already knew under the Documentary Hypothesis, the Purity laws were written by the same hand that wrote the Gen. 1 Creation story, prior to this class, I don't believe I'd ever heard it expressly formulated that the laws are an echo of the Created Order.
Apparently, this perspective was established in secular scholarly circles by Mary Douglas in her article "The Abominations of Leviticus." Douglas holds that the Levitical laws reflect a complex mystical worldview from the modern Western world is, consciously at least, distant from (apologies if you've read her already).
I've been meaning to speak on the bathroom question (and related issues) for a while now. Firstly, may I say that your stance on nonbinary genders seems more permissive and/or inclusive than Dr. Peterson's? Your joint talk on the Metaphysics of Pepe discussed avenues I'd never heard him address alone, particularly on the subjects of marginality and liminality. His discussion with Theryn Meyer alluded to similar potential for "something in between" in addition to male and female, with terms for that condition varying from culture to culture. There is some significant support for such liminal identities in the Ancient Near East, principally in the form of sarisim or eunuchs, who transgress the boundaries between men and women.
See also:
www.academia.edu/31589314/Men_in_Question_Parallel_Aspects_of_Ambiguous_Masculinities_in_Mesopotamian_and_Biblical_Sources
I don't know if my stance is more permissive, in traditional societies there tended to be three genders: male, female, and something like eunuch which characterizes anything that is in between. In St-Maximos the confessor, the third gender is called "the extreme", and both contains all the in-between people as well as monks. So much in my videos is there to help people see that there is the norm, in this case, male and female, as well as the exception. The thing is that the exception needs to remain an exception and not attempt to become the norm. Jordan has mentioned that there is no telling what he would be willing to do to accommodate someone dealing with transgender issues on a private level, his problem is how the exception is currently attempting to smash the normative binary. In the end I think he is saying the same as what I am saying though with different terms.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. Thank you as well for making that statement about traditional societies, the figure of the eunuch is quite important to me. I was familiar with St. Maximos The Confessor courtesy of your talk at the Resurrection of Logos (or perhaps logoi, wink wink). I have since developed a great interest in his work, as I feel it provides a useful praxis for dealing with the complexities of identity in a manner that is faithful to Tradition.
Exception and norm is a valid distinction to make, but one must be careful not to create a sense of affixing a value judgement to normativity or marginality.
As regards your point on Dr. Peterson, I think there's an important semantic distinction that needs to be drawn, between transgenderism and a/bi/pangenderism. When I first heard of his controversial remarks on pronouns, the articles I initially read seem to have been under the impression that they had been directed at a trans* student, rather than a nonbinary one (i.e. necessitating different, neologistic, pronouns). While I do not doubt the applicability of what you've said as far as trans* students, Dr. Peterson seems to address the question of Third Gender people less often.
I agree also on not needing to smash the normative binary
It occurs to me that I have a couple more insights from the professor of mine I mentioned in my initial comment. She has, in all but name, referred to the phenomenon of Emergence. Firstly, she did so with regard to the Beth Av ("The House of The Father") as a fractally recurring organizing principle in Ancient Near Eastern societies. Secondly, she alluded to it in terms of the intertwined symbolic used for God, (earthly) fathers, and kings.
Love the content, Jonathan! And hey, that's the parish I attend (Fr. Justin at Ss. Peter and Paul, SLC) in the baptism photo at 16:51. :)
That is absolutely hilarious. I found the picture on the internet, hopefully it is ok for me to use it!
The parish is always trying to make the sacramental life of the church visible to everyone through beautiful photography (usually taken by parishioner Ken Hoglund). Fr Justin seemed very happy when I told him about it. Lucky me I noticed as I was listening to your podcast while doing other work-and happened to be looking up at the right time. Thanks for blessing all of us with your knowledge!
Hey Bryan, can you email me, I have something to discuss with you. There is a lady who is interested in Orthodoxy from your town and is not sure where to go. pageaujonathan at gmail dot com
Jonathan, did you get my email?
Make bed? why stop there? why not clean your WHOLE ROOM !
We haven't reached JBP levels of sorted yet.
Bucko!
This was VERY useful. Thank you.
Morning commute. Learning about strange laws and biblical patterns.
Then suddenly 9:41
This is highly interesting and enlightening. Thank you Jonathan.
Some questions came to mind concerning things I'm struggling to understand.
For one, I need help with reconciling the fact that:
(1) the mixing of the wool and the cloth is considered the chaotic fringe, with
(2) the symbolism of Christ entails the necessity of transcending the problem of keeping things fully separate
How does this not also make Christ a symbol of the chaotic fringe (a fringe which somehow seems both suboptimal and necessary)?
Secondly, if the purity laws are meant to transfer a mode of being to its keepers (a mode of being which seems absolutely fundamental to human existence from the perspective of symbolism/phenomenology), then why so did Christians abandon the laws covered inthis video? How is that in keeping with the message entailed in Genesis about the importance/necessity of keeping things separate?
I wonder what you think of loose English translations of the scripture, for example The Message, and The Passion Translation.
Jonathan, thanks for your work. What is the music at the beginning? :)
15:00 oh dear - you were almost coherent up till here.
Just going to point out that the jubilee year and the fallow year are both really sub-optimal ways of solving the problem of debt and fertility - the jubilee year is really easy to game and also leads to credit restrictions in the years leading up to it, and any cover crop at all is better than just letting weeds grow and hoping that the animals will eat enough to keep the seed bank low. Similar to the dismal state of metallurgy in the region, the strict laws of separation are social and mythological reactions to scarcity and lack of understanding, carefully guarding who gets a slice of the pie rather than making the pie bigger.
That chaotic fringe exists in Physics as well. They call it the fuzzy boundary.
I can't get any cleaning done!
Talking about chimera, I'm curious about the picture behind you. Was that intended as a backdrop to this particular talk?
Thank you so much for your work man
It'd be curious the relationship (if any) of the kosher laws and the current fasting laws, as well as the continued prohibition on the consumption of blood you mention in other places.
Sooo very " useful" and interesting...and WONDERFUL
Outstanding
@jonathanpageau would the significance of Christ being described as both plant (vine) and animal (lion/lamb) tie into this conversation?
I feel like a normal person after seeing someone else speak of the infinite complexities of a pen for 5 minutes.
These have always been the parts of the Bible that I’ve struggled with, the earthly laws. The heavenly parts make perfect sense, but the Earthly laws are complicated and don’t necessarily seem like they belong in the same book as the heavenly laws
I like your new intro. Comment: this concept of separation was used in my faith tradition to forbid people of two different races from marrying (though they were not "Foreigners" to one another, nor from different "nations.") I see in the scriptures some very clear boundaries/separations, but then mechanisms or protocols for joining things. So foreigners could become Jews. Ruth marries Boaz and ends up in the lineage of Jesus. Deborah ends up being a prophetess despite her gender generally not playing this part. Peter being told to eat unkosher, and with Gentiles. Timothy not being required to circumcise. Jesus talking to Samaritans and Romans. I'm not arguing against the idea of separations, but thinking (without a lot of conclusive thoughts) about the fact that there seems to be a opposite side to it too. I mean, growing up, my sister was literally not allowed to wear trousers of any kind, as these were thought of as "men's clothing," and I always wondered about the fact that I could wear a cotton polyester blend. And as for my church group, it strongly discouraged us from reading books by, or hanging out with Christians, and certainly marrying anyone, from outside our narrow little isolationist group. So this topic is a bit fraught for me. I can't dismiss it and say "we don't need distinctions of night from day, of up from down, of solid from liquid, of nutritious from poisonous, of good from evil." But I guess I need to understand how the doctrinal equivalent of the genocidal drive toward "100% purity" can be balanced by its opposite. And what God intends as to Christians who are neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female.
The answer is love. Love is the possibility of unity and separateness at the same time. The problem with the question of 'race" is that it is a silly materialistic interpretation. In most Christian churches it is not allowed to marry someone that is not a Christian, at least not marry them in the Church. That is a restating of separation laws but without the notion of race or peoples but rather as originating in our attachment to Christ.
Jonathan Pageau Love always ends up being the answer to everything, doesn't it?
Well, God is Love, isn't he?
Jonathan Pageau : Among other things.
Genesis 21:10
Genesis 35:2
Leviticus 19:19
Ezra 10
Revelation 18:4
As a historical matter it's important to understand why these were individual rules too: Moses spent like 5 minutes talking to God and the Hebrews were already dissolving into the pagan world.
Really enjoyed that.
Came here from the joe rogan/douglas Murray botched analysis lol, makes more sense now
Hey Dude I be trying to share this same intellect You are appreciated You're doing great as long as your genuinely being yourself buddy , don't worry about what others think. 👍 Thanks for you spirit kin spirits
Thanks!
Interesting. It explains why the old testament was so against race mixing.
Does anyone know what happens when you use cotton thread with wool material or wool thread with cotton material?
Cotton does shrink, but it’s a mechanical process and stops after a couple of washings. Wool can shrink to a practically infinite degree as the fibers “bloom” and interlock with each other at every washing. Linen does not shrink to a significant degree, the threads are smooth and strong and can wear through wool if used to sew it. Wool “thread” (yarn) is more or less stretchy, seams will shrink relative to cotton or linen fabric. Cotton thread is less resistant to abrasion than linen, seams will soon break. There are degrees of difference according to how each fiber might be spun/woven, how fabrics would be used, lots of exceptions to the rules; it’s a complex subject.
There are a lot of good things we could do by bringing back animals or creating intelligent machines.
06:22
Titus 1:15 _To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted._
Genesis 35:2 _So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change your clothes. Then come, let us go up to Bethel, where I will build an altar to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and who has been with me wherever I have gone.”_
James 4:8 _Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded._
Galatians 4:30 _But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”_
Revelation 18:4 _Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;_
2 Corinthians 7:1 _Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates _*_body and spirit,_*_ perfecting holiness out of reverence for God._
Rogan and Murray just talked about this. I was very discouraged by their lack of awareness of the dialogue around these parts of the Bible.
Yeah, I wish I could get them to watch this video.
Jonathan Pageau how many subscribers does it take to get onto the Joe Rogan Experience? Lets shoot for that.
I have no idea, but that would be awesome.
Do all these commandments about not mixing and confusing things apply to plant-based meat substitutes? Cuz I can't help feeling like the current craze for these is a cosmic aberration...
In the book of Acts chapter 2 there is a moving of the holy spirit which causes the people in the room to speak with tongues. It seems the symbolism of tongues could be used both as a means to divide (tower of Babel) and unite. Would you be able to give any more insight into this "upper room experience" phenomenon?
It is often described by the Church Fathers as being the 'anti-Babel', that is the tongues of fire, the tongues that separate in that case made it possible for the one spirit, the one message of Christ to be heard by all men. This is the dance between unity and multiplicity which characterizes Christianity.
Do you think God gave the Hebrews these laws to manifest in their daily lives as reminders that they were a people set apart by God?
At my university the bathrooms aren’t separate. We love England
Aër is the cloth you mentioned?
The Shepherd must Separate the Sheep from the Wolves in order to keep the Sheep United and must Unite the Sheep to keep them Separated from the Wolves.
Awesome video :)
It’s not only the creepy hybrids and the bathroom issues - the abandoning of inappropriate crossover has begotten the abomination my dad calls a “momelette”. Chicken omelettes are crime against nature.
Good info bro!! Can u please shorten up the videos , into subjects 8-10mins
would we then say that keeping or allowing a bad street in our city, of villainy and vice, would be congruent with these ideas? Perhaps in knowledge that by not doing that, these days, has turned the bad street into all our streets at certain times instead. Without a designated fringe the fringe spills over our cities in pulses.
_"Without a designated fringe the fringe spills over our cities in pulses."_
Ah! Maybe that's the significance of the fringe on all four corners!
Jonathan. I am struck by how almost Zen Buddhist you make this all sound. How do you feel about that connection? Specifically surrounding the idea of early Christianity playing at the duality of meaning with the shroud. But instead of questioning it and striving to understand it, instead accepting and submitting to it.
That's kind of a weird thought. I have no idea what to think of this.
What if: The Tree of Life as the Conscious Mind and the Tree of Knowledge as the Unconscious Mind? Perhaps you may give this idea some thought.