Sam, will you be putting cows onto the field where the crane used to be? The removal of it does make for some nice shooting angles, still it will be missed, it was an iconic part of your layout for many years... What did you do with it? Is it in the bin?
Yes there will be cows! I think so too, the crane hasn't worked for a while, and I replaced some of the track round that area so thought I'd do a bit more! Yeah it's in the bin sadly xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The lights would be dim, due to when it was in operation - 1941 onwards - most lights at that time would have been dim, or off completely. The, er, 'minor disagreement' we had with Germany at the time, made it expedient to not be seen at night. Necessary lights in public areas, had to be no more than 15 Watts, and cowled, to preclude any light pollution that could aid enemy aircraft.
Rather ironically they were nicknamed 'Hornbys' by the Southern railwaymen, Hornby O gauge and Hornby Dublo being probably the best known electric model railways in the UK when they were built.
Regarding poorer quality wire on the motors, one thing becoming increasingly common is to substitute pure copper wires for copper-coated-aluminium (CCA) wire. Aluminium has approx. half the conductivity of copper. Can be tested for in a couple of ways IIRC, one is to scrape the wire lengthways with a scalpel blade (carefully, obviously) and see if there's a silvery colour underneath the outer layer. The other way is to expose a stripped-back section of wire to a flame (again, carefully), CCA will splay/curl/shrink back very noticeably whereas ProperCopper™ will not.
Hi Sam, good stuff and the short lived grey livery looks nice. Did you watch my review and history videos? Those would have provided a number of answers to your questions. Let me deal with some. Buffers, using some tweezers at the back of the beam to compress the rear of the buffer clip will result in easy removal. Overhead wires, these were 660v DC overhead and third rail the wires were very informal and tram-like just in yards. The Booster did actually boost as well as keep running, the third rail supply voltage could be added to the output of the motor generators resulting in up to 1600 volts available to the traction motor sets. Bogie clips are a pain but making a simple curved tool out of a screw driver will allow the easy unclipping. Lights, the headcodes were illuminated by 1 or 2 40 watt old style bulbs, also due to WW2 lighting was greatly reduced hence the very small driving cab window. Please check out my history video for the full story. Cheers Mike
Great review as always, but I think a fairer comparison at 26:37 would've been with another Co-Co, rather than a Bo-Bo - it's the long wheelbase on the bogies that are causing problems there, I think?
That's a very good catch, but even though this particular wheelbase seems much longer than other Co-Cos, I still have to agree with Sam on this one. Many other videos have shown all manner of locomotives (specifically those with poor motors) slow down on those curves. All manner of wheel arrangements have previously been able to negotiate them without slowing down. And it's no secret more and more manufacturers are trying to slip in these less than quality motors in modern models.
Notwithstanding its faults, for nostalgic reasons, I am going to order one in British Railways green. I am old enough to have seen and heard CC1 rumbling into Chichester with a mixed goods train,albeit as a small boy. I won't be bothering with DCC sound as I don't think it would be possible to reproduce the very loud thrumming it produced. Also, thank you for at least mentioning Alfred Raworth - in my opinion his contributions to British railway development and in particular the electrification of the Southern Railway were far mor significant and enduring than those of Oliver Bulleid. Fun fact, Bulleid and Raworth detested each other but still managed to collaborate and produce the highly effective CC1.
Glad I pre ordered BR green version last year as they seem sold out. Only problem was some pick ups not in contact with wheels at times. Axles have a lot of sideways movement for curves but base keepers off and pickups adjusted job done. Also lights are almost full brightness before it pulls away on analogue. They also seem very steady so maybe a capacitor lurking somewhere. My PCB sat down nicely but one of the screws was sticking up only half in. After a bit of persuasion went down nicely. Having said all that a really nice smooth/quiet interesting loco. It's a must have as I spotted the real 20002 at Norwood Junction many years ago when I was a kid.
I've wanted these for a while, and I'm glad they've appeared with decent detailing at a reasonable price. I'm gonna try to get this grey one, and wait for a 2nd batch to get CC2 in southern green. I also hope they do 20003 with its different cabs in the future too.
They were called booster locos because the big motor generators inside bucked and boosted the voltage applied to the motors, so the motor pairs ran from 0 up to twice 3rd rail voltage, and were continous in all notches, unlike a resistor loco like the LUL batt locos. Raworths clever idea was that the motor generator only has to be half the rating of the motors and keeps everything going through the gaps When the 70, 71 and 74 were scrapped the motor generator sets ended up at Strawberry Hill depot and GEC Preston and got used to test equipment for new trains.
@Sam'sTrains I believe the length of the bogeys was causing the locomotive to slow down dramatically for that tight curve as I have seen a locomotive do something somewhat similar in the train club im a part of, but that was a steam 2-10-2 with no blind (wheel without flange) driving axles.
Watched this review earlier. Surprised and went back to give my black and silver early BR version the once over. It's like a different loco. No issues with power and it has not yet been run in.. Turning wheels and pushing hard against my finger at well below 50% on a very basic Hornby analogue controller. Unaffected by curves. The paintwork is immaculate, including on the bogies. No sign of any flash on any of moulded parts. Handles that are plastic on yours are all metal as are the whistles and wipers and all much finer than on your review version. Directional multiple light array is also bright and impressive. All round excellent. You need another!
One possible explanation for the “motor” problem is that the manufacturers are making more models with die-cast chassis, but not taking that into account when selecting a proper motor to equip the model with (or maybe they’re just trying to get rid of a stock of older motors, who knows?) Or maybe they expect modelers to put DCC decoders in them, thus overcoming the problem. Anyone else got a theory? 😊
To be honest, older motors actually work a lot better. Go right back to Triang days. Those motors would out perform a lot of modern motors with the right gearing. Even the Rignfield motors of the late 70's early 80's work well when maintained, and they do work well on DCC as well as DC. The issue is more that they motors are made cheaper now. The quality of the windings, even from the same supplier, is now not as good. This is what causes issues. It is actually a fine art to get a motor that can crawl the way Sam likes and also perform at high speed. This means slightly more cost, and that is not the way of the world. Things have to be made for as high a profit as possible now.
This E-loco of the SR, has the Third Outside Rail Power feed, ( Unique to SR) but also has a Pantograph for Catenary Feed. In Italy, this 3rd Rail system was initially used on the Ferrovia Nord Milano, a regional Local Network from Milan to Lake Como etc.
Great review Sam! I found the sound that the loco made was most realistic, as good as dcc! XD it’s funny how manufacturers can’t bother to use decent metallic paint. All my paints are Humbrol from the 1970s before I was born, yet whenever I use them, I can still see my face in every part I paint it with. You would think Hornby with their ownership of Humbrol, would have figured it out, but at least it makes it easier to see what parts are metal, and which are to be replaced!
Another forensic review. Great stuff! Is the price difference between Accurascale models and this one really that significant? £170 for a highly detailed 37 (Bachmann are now offering theirs at this price too) or 55 doesn't seem to be huge, and all these locos seem to be in a different to CC1 league IMO. Still, it's great to see such locos available to enthusiasts.
I just watched a video by "model trains unlimited" on RUclips where he found the pcb plate was pressing down on the flywheel shaft and was causing noise, high current draw and compromised performance. He fixed it using spacers.
Nine months later (October 2024) and price has dropped to under £100 for this livery from Rails of Sheffield. So I bought one! Have to say it does look very good. My layout will be Southern around 1940s so it will fit in perfectly (once I have built it!). The windows are small and the headcode dim because - during the War - when this prototype was made - they were concerned about light spillage giving enemy aircraft an easy target.
@16:17 I'd say that the PCB is too long which could have been corrected by redrilling the screw holes to make them oval rather than round. Let's face it where you have large distances between design and production problems like this WILL occur
This is why I love the scale modelling community, been watching another youtuber, those bubbles you got on the front of the booster maybe from where the varnish has had bubbled and left dimples in your loco. Varnish like gloss and satin are meant to be stirred, not shaken
Just to answer your question about modern motors being under powered. Skew wound is the answer. This robs some of the magnetic field by placing it in the next section of the rotation to prevent coging and enhance smooth running. But I seem to recall up to 30% power might be lost.
Hi Sam. I am a huge fan of yours. I have seen every video you have made. One of my favorite videos to watch is thomas and friends shunting videos. Will there be any more videos them?
Hi Sam, The General Steel Casting “Boxspok” (pronounced Box Spoke” is a relative of the Bulleid Firth Brown cast Wheels. Along with Scullin Disk Wheels, they were all designed so that during casting they could be weighted to balance both vertical and transverse Forces.
hi sam, great video. i remember 20002 and 20003 as a child living in sussex, have the black one, its a great performer. well done to kernow models, hopefuly 20003 will be next
Runs beautifully on DCC. Plenty of torque due to BEMF and only very slight slowing on curves. No excuse though for weak motors, and I do wonder what the increase in power that compensates will do to the motor long term.
Looks lovely. I really like it. Especially in the SR green. Its an obscure prototype, but a good example that obscure models don't have to cost a fortune. Mechanically it's about passable for me, but the clips are very annoying. Performance is also about passable to decent. For the price, you can't complain too much in my opinion. Great review, Sam 👍
Not a fan of the grey liveries if I'm honest, but I am very pleased with my EFE Booster, which is in the Southern livery. I'm glad that EFE are starting to bring out better quality locos for more sensible prices.
I might get one of these in southern green, also those wheels are called Bullied-Firth Brown wheels as they were co-designed by Bullied and a company called Firth Brown. Regards Oliver
The Hobby is served well by the likes of Heljan and EFE Rail in that they produce interesting models that other manufacturers don't. I managed to recently New/Old Stock of Heljan Baby Deltic and DP2. Both Excellent models and not released by any other manufacturer.
My two locomotives developed by Kernow Model Centre are good at crawling as required in a yard type layout. I believe that most EFE locomotives are pretty much the same.
Sam - love your reviews, keep 'em coming. I saw you showed the issue with the wheels not all sitting on the rails (which can cause derailment) but did not comment on this. I mention this because other reviewers discuss it in some detail and even quote others' possible solutions. I would certainly find it helpful if you addressed these issues more directly - after all I don't think you'll offend the mfrs as they must be well aware of the problem. Cheers
Hi Sam. Happy New Year. Can you explain your ratings please? By which I mean the grading, A, B, C etc. It is directly related to your other ratings or is it more subjective and your own overall impression?
Glad to hear you pronounce Mr Raworth's name correctly! 😜😜 A nice model - I like the BR black version, which looks good with blood-and-custard coaches.
Hey Sam. I got one of these also in the Southern Green. It's a great model like Model railways Unlimited said. The wheels are known as Firth Brown wheels. Designed to be lighter and stronger then the normal spoked variety.
CL20 v Booster is not equal. The number of axles in a bogie and there axial shift clearances can be the issue of power loss. US models have used a wand for 20+ years mainly to reset DCC chips to works basic. PECO has a third rail kit for 'reality'.
I've got one of these and it's excellent. One point. The pantograph is a dummy, just a pretty reasonable dummy. The Southern wasn't known for overhead electrification however there were goods yards where there was a 750v DC overhead right up to the 70s in some cases as a third rail there would have been lethal. It does look pretty good with the pan raised doesn't it.
The Class71 used by SR had the same dual feed arrangement. Hornby's model has a working pantograph, controlled by a switch underneath to change the power supply between track and overhead. I would be interested to know if anyone has successfully used this facility on the Class 71?
Would be really interested to see a weathered model of this loco, I think that would help the looks of it given how basic it looks, despite that I still do like it. Great review as always.
Regarding your comments on the headcode lighting; you should note that these were stencils on all early electric multiple units such as the 4-sub, 5-belle, 6-pul etc. It wasn't necessary to have bright illumination in daytime. Check out RUclips video on the brighton belle to see what I mean. Regarding your review, I bought all versions of this model except the grey one and there were major issues with the SR green version which will only run one way round and derailed on 4th radius curves.
I don’t know which is the odd one out and it’s a shame the crane is no longer there, but what if, is the question, what if there is a siding with a small goods platform next to it on the third loop just beyond the black bookcase that connects with the existing sidings instead on the second loop where the field is with the cows grazing the grass
Having looked at their site, they do seem to make some bizarre trains. The double decker British passenger train was mad. I didn’t know we had such a thing.
I know it's a bit niche, but have you ever considered reviewing a large diesel from German firm PIKO. I have s fair few, and the quality and performance are faultless. If you are a canny buyer and get them from specific suppliers in Germany, they can come in a bit much more than a hundred quid. Just a thought....
Absolutely agree. From a German point of view, the model tested by Sam here would be considered straight forward (pardon the word) tosh. For just over 100 Euro, PIKO delivers top faultless quality. Their attention to quality and price is their rather unique position. They do have very expensive expert stuff as well but also deliver for budgets. But that's PIKO; something for everyone (as they say themselves). So yeah, Sam should have a look at them, and also follow the owner Dr. René F. Wilfer who is fun and highly committed since the day he bought the company many years ago.
hi Sam another enjoyable review not a loco I will be adding to my collection, you ran the Hornby class 71 what speed setting do you run that at? I have the same model which runs slow, need to get the setting minimum on 70 have I just got a below par motor?
These motors do perform considerably better on DCC over DC, and manufacturers do aim more at the DCC market these days. Even cheap motors tend to perform reasonably well on DCC. The issues with the motors - Manufacturers will go with the cheapest motors they can find as they feel they don't need to do a lot in a model train. Also, when using DC, trying to have a motor that can "crawl" and also can keep up high speed is actually quite difficult. The motors in general are not really able to give a lot of power at low voltage, which is required for a "crawl" and the ones that can crawl well generally will not be great at high speed. Yes, some specific motor manufacturers can get it a good balance, but they are definitely not as cheap as manufacturers of model trains like to use these days. DCC does obviously work quite differently and does tend to behave better, which is the opposite to what some people use to say.
Hi Sam, time to make myself unpopular. As someone who tends to think that modern image logos look a bit ho-hum boxes on wheels, this was never going to strike much of a cord. However, even so, I feel that your comments on the price may well be over-generous. The high prices of recent years could be getting us numbed to overpaying for more pedestrian efforts. Still gave you a thumbs-up for the review, because now prospective purchasers know what they are getting for their money. Thanks.
Still not sold on the grading system… I think the threshold to be graded as “e” should be a bit lower, because you gave this loco a thumbs up whilst still having… e is the lowest grade you can give, isn’t it? So maybe consider re-evaluating the score thresholds for each grade? Or add another, lower grade. Or add a S grade, which would made this a d grade?
These lack of torque issues really are a thing at the moment. Look at your reviews from just a few years ago and nothing like this and the r2 slowdowns were never an issue but now the majority have this issue
@@SamsTrains none of my models on DCC do it particularly noticeably but there is definitely something going on. Have you had a look at current draw on affected models Vs ones that run with plenty of power?
@@SamsTrains- could you add a multimeter measuring current drawn and work out relative motor efficiency? My guess is modern motors either have cheaper magnets (shortage of rare earth elements) or the build quality is poor. I know a Japanese motor maker ceased production a few years ago as he couldn’t get the magnets. Either its motors or poor transmission design that can’t cope with corners. I know from experience a motor with weak magnets tends to draw excess current, more so under load. They get hot and eventually burn out.
Think its worthy of a 7 ,or just over,more affordable locos are definitely the way forward,interested in the BR Blue full yellows,as they don't have the green full yellows, example, on sale
i know that this may be off topic. but have you heard of the video magazine rail scale (or was it rail scene,) either one should work. i found it on the internet archive. it could be on youtube but i don’t know if it is. i’ll link it if you want.
I did think you would get the grey one Sam, to be honest it’s fairly good, I went with 20002 in the black with silver livery and I’m very happy with mine, I have already fitted the third rail shoes to mine and some of the bufferbeam parts, at a later date I’m hoping they bachmann/EFE will do 20001 in the black with silver trim as it would be good to have both, my overall experience of EFE has been quite good, I already have one of their 58s and the 144 pacer and they are both nice models
"Grey eminence" i'd call it as it dose have this regal quality in this livery. I am quite interested in even earlier electrical locomotives and this dose seem to be visually closer to earlier rather than later ones (admittedly largely thanks for livery). As for the anticipated long term vitality yeah that dose bare investigations, maybe if Mr. Sam's trains audience field this every livestream for year of few intense use can be simulated.But since that is unescessarily complicated ask i guess proof will come with time only. I rather relible runner with ease of maintenence than something that looks pristine i would be unsatisfied with this particular one but i do respect that it dose seem to have decent amount of audience that would probably purchase it.
Just bought one of the grey versions from Rails as they are now £99.50. Watched your review before buying Sam and I was in two minds. Wish I hadn't bought it. Really bad at picking up power, stops on curves and lousy over some points. My other 20 plus locos run perfectly over the same track. My first and last EFE loco. I will try to return it to Rails.
Bought one today from Rails of Sheffield for £99.50. Special offer. Unfortunately, it'll cost me more than that. I'm picking it up from the shop tomorrow - I'm bound to buy something else while I'm there.
I believe Kernow only distribute the EFE Models on behalf of Bachmann, they did not take any part in the tooling process of the Booster as far as I know
Not sure that's correct, Graham Muzprat - who works for Kernow - described this project as "pretty much his baby" as he lead the project development, so Kernow seem to have an input.
Yep - it's the other way around - EFE products are distributed by Bachmann but are produced by a handful of other parties... in this case Kernow, according to the box. Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I find it interesting they were developing prototype electric locos during the 2nd world war. I'd have thought industry would have been focussed elsewhere at the time
I'm going to have to say the BR Black one I bought has a slightly better livery production. It doesn't seem to slow down too much on curves to me which suggests more of a quality control issue. Ive got several Bachmann Class 90s and some are faster than others. Not sure why that's the case beyond the quality on that loco of it's motor and drive train. Anyway good review though I personally think E is quite harsh as overall the loco seems good, perhaps more of a C.
Now you’ve completed your review and are able to correct any teething problems, you might want to check out the series of short videos on this loco by ‘Model Railways Unlimited’. Had your model been as troublesome as his, your rating might have been slightly lower!
Hmmm, not sure how I feel on these… I guess the prototype isn’t quite my cup of tea. It clearly has some issues… the fragility especially. But they at least haven’t charged a ludicrous amount. Could perhaps be cheaper, but still, not too bad. One thing you never mentioned Sam, how one side has more detail than the other. Lots more… are those grills?
The wheels are Bulleid-Firth-Brown made of a single casting. American Boxpok are a built up design not connected to Bulleids made by Firth Brown Ltd.
Sam, will you be putting cows onto the field where the crane used to be? The removal of it does make for some nice shooting angles, still it will be missed, it was an iconic part of your layout for many years... What did you do with it? Is it in the bin?
Yes there will be cows! I think so too, the crane hasn't worked for a while, and I replaced some of the track round that area so thought I'd do a bit more! Yeah it's in the bin sadly xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My guess is the evil Scrap Man ate it. 🤔
@@SamsTrainsRails have this loco grey livery @ £99.
Thanks!
The lights would be dim, due to when it was in operation - 1941 onwards - most lights at that time would have been dim, or off completely. The, er, 'minor disagreement' we had with Germany at the time, made it expedient to not be seen at night. Necessary lights in public areas, had to be no more than 15 Watts, and cowled, to preclude any light pollution that could aid enemy aircraft.
You mean the war? In which many of our relatives died. Their name liveth for evermore.
Rather ironically they were nicknamed 'Hornbys' by the Southern railwaymen, Hornby O gauge and Hornby Dublo being probably the best known electric model railways in the UK when they were built.
Regarding poorer quality wire on the motors, one thing becoming increasingly common is to substitute pure copper wires for copper-coated-aluminium (CCA) wire. Aluminium has approx. half the conductivity of copper. Can be tested for in a couple of ways IIRC, one is to scrape the wire lengthways with a scalpel blade (carefully, obviously) and see if there's a silvery colour underneath the outer layer. The other way is to expose a stripped-back section of wire to a flame (again, carefully), CCA will splay/curl/shrink back very noticeably whereas ProperCopper™ will not.
I got the one in Southern green, delighted that they have been made. CC1 was built in my hometown (Ashford).
Hi Sam, good stuff and the short lived grey livery looks nice. Did you watch my review and history videos? Those would have provided a number of answers to your questions. Let me deal with some. Buffers, using some tweezers at the back of the beam to compress the rear of the buffer clip will result in easy removal. Overhead wires, these were 660v DC overhead and third rail the wires were very informal and tram-like just in yards. The Booster did actually boost as well as keep running, the third rail supply voltage could be added to the output of the motor generators resulting in up to 1600 volts available to the traction motor sets. Bogie clips are a pain but making a simple curved tool out of a screw driver will allow the easy unclipping. Lights, the headcodes were illuminated by 1 or 2 40 watt old style bulbs, also due to WW2 lighting was greatly reduced hence the very small driving cab window. Please check out my history video for the full story. Cheers Mike
Great review as always, but I think a fairer comparison at 26:37 would've been with another Co-Co, rather than a Bo-Bo - it's the long wheelbase on the bogies that are causing problems there, I think?
That's a very good catch, but even though this particular wheelbase seems much longer than other Co-Cos, I still have to agree with Sam on this one. Many other videos have shown all manner of locomotives (specifically those with poor motors) slow down on those curves. All manner of wheel arrangements have previously been able to negotiate them without slowing down. And it's no secret more and more manufacturers are trying to slip in these less than quality motors in modern models.
That was my thought too. While I am not denying Sam's test, another Co-Co, like a class 37 would be a fairer representation.
Notwithstanding its faults, for nostalgic reasons, I am going to order one in British Railways green. I am old enough to have seen and heard CC1 rumbling into Chichester with a mixed goods train,albeit as a small boy. I won't be bothering with DCC sound as I don't think it would be possible to reproduce the very loud thrumming it produced. Also, thank you for at least mentioning Alfred Raworth - in my opinion his contributions to British railway development and in particular the electrification of the Southern Railway were far mor significant and enduring than those of Oliver Bulleid. Fun fact, Bulleid and Raworth detested each other but still managed to collaborate and produce the highly effective CC1.
Glad I pre ordered BR green version last year as they seem sold out.
Only problem was some pick ups not in contact with wheels at times. Axles have a lot of sideways movement for curves but base keepers off and pickups adjusted job done. Also lights are almost full brightness before it pulls away on analogue. They also seem very steady so maybe a capacitor lurking somewhere.
My PCB sat down nicely but one of the screws was sticking up only half in. After a bit of persuasion went down nicely.
Having said all that a really nice smooth/quiet interesting loco.
It's a must have as I spotted the real 20002 at Norwood Junction many years ago when I was a kid.
I've wanted these for a while, and I'm glad they've appeared with decent detailing at a reasonable price. I'm gonna try to get this grey one, and wait for a 2nd batch to get CC2 in southern green. I also hope they do 20003 with its different cabs in the future too.
They were called booster locos because the big motor generators inside bucked and boosted the voltage applied to the motors, so the motor pairs ran from 0 up to twice 3rd rail voltage, and were continous in all notches, unlike a resistor loco like the LUL batt locos. Raworths clever idea was that the motor generator only has to be half the rating of the motors and keeps everything going through the gaps When the 70, 71 and 74 were scrapped the motor generator sets ended up at Strawberry Hill depot and GEC Preston and got used to test equipment for new trains.
Think you were quite generous with your scores with this one Sam!
@Sam'sTrains I believe the length of the bogeys was causing the locomotive to slow down dramatically for that tight curve as I have seen a locomotive do something somewhat similar in the train club im a part of, but that was a steam 2-10-2 with no blind (wheel without flange) driving axles.
Watched this review earlier. Surprised and went back to give my black and silver early BR version the once over. It's like a different loco. No issues with power and it has not yet been run in.. Turning wheels and pushing hard against my finger at well below 50% on a very basic Hornby analogue controller. Unaffected by curves. The paintwork is immaculate, including on the bogies. No sign of any flash on any of moulded parts. Handles that are plastic on yours are all metal as are the whistles and wipers and all much finer than on your review version. Directional multiple light array is also bright and impressive. All round excellent. You need another!
One possible explanation for the “motor” problem is that the manufacturers are making more models with die-cast chassis, but not taking that into account when selecting a proper motor to equip the model with (or maybe they’re just trying to get rid of a stock of older motors, who knows?) Or maybe they expect modelers to put DCC decoders in them, thus overcoming the problem. Anyone else got a theory? 😊
To be honest, older motors actually work a lot better. Go right back to Triang days. Those motors would out perform a lot of modern motors with the right gearing. Even the Rignfield motors of the late 70's early 80's work well when maintained, and they do work well on DCC as well as DC. The issue is more that they motors are made cheaper now. The quality of the windings, even from the same supplier, is now not as good. This is what causes issues. It is actually a fine art to get a motor that can crawl the way Sam likes and also perform at high speed. This means slightly more cost, and that is not the way of the world. Things have to be made for as high a profit as possible now.
This E-loco of the SR, has the Third Outside Rail Power feed, ( Unique to SR) but also has a Pantograph for Catenary Feed.
In Italy, this 3rd Rail system was initially used on the Ferrovia Nord Milano, a regional Local Network from Milan to Lake Como etc.
pantograpoh on these were yard use only
I've bought the British Rail Black and Silver version from Rails of Sheffield. What a stunner from EFE Rail.
It’s a good looking locomotive, I must say!! I have two EFE locomotives, both steam and both Southern tank locomotives.
Great review Sam! I found the sound that the loco made was most realistic, as good as dcc! XD it’s funny how manufacturers can’t bother to use decent metallic paint. All my paints are Humbrol from the 1970s before I was born, yet whenever I use them, I can still see my face in every part I paint it with. You would think Hornby with their ownership of Humbrol, would have figured it out, but at least it makes it easier to see what parts are metal, and which are to be replaced!
This has to be the weirdest looking engine i have ever seen! I love it!!
Another forensic review. Great stuff!
Is the price difference between Accurascale models and this one really that significant? £170 for a highly detailed 37 (Bachmann are now offering theirs at this price too) or 55 doesn't seem to be huge, and all these locos seem to be in a different to CC1 league IMO.
Still, it's great to see such locos available to enthusiasts.
I just watched a video by "model trains unlimited" on RUclips where he found the pcb plate was pressing down on the flywheel shaft and was causing noise, high current draw and compromised performance. He fixed it using spacers.
Nine months later (October 2024) and price has dropped to under £100 for this livery from Rails of Sheffield. So I bought one! Have to say it does look very good. My layout will be Southern around 1940s so it will fit in perfectly (once I have built it!). The windows are small and the headcode dim because - during the War - when this prototype was made - they were concerned about light spillage giving enemy aircraft an easy target.
I think the odd locomotive out on the sidings was the hood unit (I think something along the lines of class 15 or 16)
@16:17 I'd say that the PCB is too long which could have been corrected by redrilling the screw holes to make them oval rather than round. Let's face it where you have large distances between design and production problems like this WILL occur
This is why I love the scale modelling community, been watching another youtuber, those bubbles you got on the front of the booster maybe from where the varnish has had bubbled and left dimples in your loco. Varnish like gloss and satin are meant to be stirred, not shaken
Just to answer your question about modern motors being under powered. Skew wound is the answer. This robs some of the magnetic field by placing it in the next section of the rotation to prevent coging and enhance smooth running. But I seem to recall up to 30% power might be lost.
Great video Sam! Keep up the good work! Also, is the odd one out the Heljan Class 15?
Hi Sam. I am a huge fan of yours. I have seen every video you have made. One of my favorite videos to watch is thomas and friends shunting videos. Will there be any more videos them?
Hi Sam,
The General Steel Casting “Boxspok” (pronounced Box Spoke” is a relative of the Bulleid Firth Brown cast Wheels.
Along with Scullin Disk Wheels, they were all designed so that during casting they could be weighted to balance both vertical and transverse Forces.
hi sam, great video. i remember 20002 and 20003 as a child living in sussex, have the black one, its a great performer. well done to kernow models, hopefuly 20003 will be next
Runs beautifully on DCC. Plenty of torque due to BEMF and only very slight slowing on curves. No excuse though for weak motors, and I do wonder what the increase in power that compensates will do to the motor long term.
Looks lovely. I really like it. Especially in the SR green. Its an obscure prototype, but a good example that obscure models don't have to cost a fortune. Mechanically it's about passable for me, but the clips are very annoying. Performance is also about passable to decent. For the price, you can't complain too much in my opinion. Great review, Sam 👍
In respect it's along wheelbase 6 axle truck. How much truck movement is there
Not a fan of the grey liveries if I'm honest, but I am very pleased with my EFE Booster, which is in the Southern livery. I'm glad that EFE are starting to bring out better quality locos for more sensible prices.
I might get one of these in southern green, also those wheels are called Bullied-Firth Brown wheels as they were co-designed by Bullied and a company called Firth Brown.
Regards
Oliver
The Hobby is served well by the likes of Heljan and EFE Rail in that they produce interesting models that other manufacturers don't. I managed to recently New/Old Stock of Heljan Baby Deltic and DP2. Both Excellent models and not released by any other manufacturer.
My two locomotives developed by Kernow Model Centre are good at crawling as required in a yard type layout. I believe that most EFE locomotives are pretty much the same.
D6242 at 28:22 is the odd one out. I think it's a class 20, or at least something similar, which is a diesel.
Sam - love your reviews, keep 'em coming. I saw you showed the issue with the wheels not all sitting on the rails (which can cause derailment) but did not comment on this. I mention this because other reviewers discuss it in some detail and even quote others' possible solutions. I would certainly find it helpful if you addressed these issues more directly - after all I don't think you'll offend the mfrs as they must be well aware of the problem. Cheers
Hi Sam. Happy New Year. Can you explain your ratings please? By which I mean the grading, A, B, C etc. It is directly related to your other ratings or is it more subjective and your own overall impression?
The Class 15 is a prototype diesel with no electric capacity so I think that might be your odd one out?
That’s a good looking electric model train Sam.
It sure is!! :D
@@SamsTrains I guess so
Glad to hear you pronounce Mr Raworth's name correctly! 😜😜 A nice model - I like the BR black version, which looks good with blood-and-custard coaches.
Hey Sam. I got one of these also in the Southern Green. It's a great model like Model railways Unlimited said. The wheels are known as Firth Brown wheels. Designed to be lighter and stronger then the normal spoked variety.
CL20 v Booster is not equal. The number of axles in a bogie and there axial shift clearances can be the issue of power loss. US models have used a wand for 20+ years mainly to reset DCC chips to works basic. PECO has a third rail kit for 'reality'.
I've got one of these and it's excellent.
One point. The pantograph is a dummy, just a pretty reasonable dummy.
The Southern wasn't known for overhead electrification however there were goods yards where there was a 750v DC overhead right up to the 70s in some cases as a third rail there would have been lethal.
It does look pretty good with the pan raised doesn't it.
The Class71 used by SR had the same dual feed arrangement. Hornby's model has a working pantograph, controlled by a switch underneath to change the power supply between track and overhead. I would be interested to know if anyone has successfully used this facility on the Class 71?
@@jimkeenan7211 not sure yet however a 71 is on my list. I might have to make a Yard with some overhead and give it a try.
It’s definitely a looker
Would be really interested to see a weathered model of this loco, I think that would help the looks of it given how basic it looks, despite that I still do like it. Great review as always.
One thing not mentioned is the metal chassis interfering with the motor magnets.
Bring back plastic chassis I say.
Metal chassis are usually die-cast zinc which is not as magnetic as steel or iron and so would have less influence on the motor.
Regarding your comments on the headcode lighting; you should note that these were stencils on all early electric multiple units such as the 4-sub, 5-belle, 6-pul etc. It wasn't necessary to have bright illumination in daytime. Check out RUclips video on the brighton belle to see what I mean. Regarding your review, I bought all versions of this model except the grey one and there were major issues with the SR green version which will only run one way round and derailed on 4th radius curves.
I don’t know which is the odd one out and it’s a shame the crane is no longer there, but what if, is the question, what if there is a siding with a small goods platform next to it on the third loop just beyond the black bookcase that connects with the existing sidings instead on the second loop where the field is with the cows grazing the grass
Looks very nice. It looks nice and smooth. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur trains are the best. And ur number 1.
Hopefully someone will make a LNER EE1 soon, these early British electrics are fascinating. It's nice we now have this loco and the ES1 in RTR.
As a lner fan I agree
That would be awesome to see, fingers crossed!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have one. Good review. Fair and accurate.
Having looked at their site, they do seem to make some bizarre trains. The double decker British passenger train was mad. I didn’t know we had such a thing.
I know it's a bit niche, but have you ever considered reviewing a large diesel from German firm PIKO. I have s fair few, and the quality and performance are faultless. If you are a canny buyer and get them from specific suppliers in Germany, they can come in a bit much more than a hundred quid. Just a thought....
Absolutely agree. From a German point of view, the model tested by Sam here would be considered straight forward (pardon the word) tosh. For just over 100 Euro, PIKO delivers top faultless quality. Their attention to quality and price is their rather unique position. They do have very expensive expert stuff as well but also deliver for budgets. But that's PIKO; something for everyone (as they say themselves). So yeah, Sam should have a look at them, and also follow the owner Dr. René F. Wilfer who is fun and highly committed since the day he bought the company many years ago.
@@lindaoffenbachWould very much like to see some PIKO here as well👍Some stunning models...
Sam what happen to the building with the moving crane and sideing on your layout
Awesome video today Sam lovely model today am after getting the southern green
The beginning seems new..
And it's my Birthday today!!!🎉
hi Sam another enjoyable review not a loco I will be adding to my collection, you ran the Hornby class 71 what speed setting do you run that at? I have the same model which runs slow, need to get the setting minimum on 70 have I just got a below par motor?
These motors do perform considerably better on DCC over DC, and manufacturers do aim more at the DCC market these days. Even cheap motors tend to perform reasonably well on DCC.
The issues with the motors - Manufacturers will go with the cheapest motors they can find as they feel they don't need to do a lot in a model train. Also, when using DC, trying to have a motor that can "crawl" and also can keep up high speed is actually quite difficult. The motors in general are not really able to give a lot of power at low voltage, which is required for a "crawl" and the ones that can crawl well generally will not be great at high speed. Yes, some specific motor manufacturers can get it a good balance, but they are definitely not as cheap as manufacturers of model trains like to use these days.
DCC does obviously work quite differently and does tend to behave better, which is the opposite to what some people use to say.
Please buy some Murphy models mk 2 D's to go with your Murphy models class 121 locomotive
Hi Sam, time to make myself unpopular. As someone who tends to think that modern image logos look a bit ho-hum boxes on wheels, this was never going to strike much of a cord. However, even so, I feel that your comments on the price may well be over-generous. The high prices of recent years could be getting us numbed to overpaying for more pedestrian efforts. Still gave you a thumbs-up for the review, because now prospective purchasers know what they are getting for their money. Thanks.
Still not sold on the grading system… I think the threshold to be graded as “e” should be a bit lower, because you gave this loco a thumbs up whilst still having… e is the lowest grade you can give, isn’t it? So maybe consider re-evaluating the score thresholds for each grade?
Or add another, lower grade. Or add a S grade, which would made this a d grade?
Cool vid Sam! I am making a 1:32 scale Skarloey from Thomas! Would you take a look at any HOn30 Thomas engines like Skarloey sometime for n gauge?
Can you please review thw Bachmann Double Fairlie locomotive?
It's 009 scale ( N gauge ).
These lack of torque issues really are a thing at the moment. Look at your reviews from just a few years ago and nothing like this and the r2 slowdowns were never an issue but now the majority have this issue
Yeah absolutely - I swear it's something to do with modern motors from the past couple of years... only some mind you!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains none of my models on DCC do it particularly noticeably but there is definitely something going on. Have you had a look at current draw on affected models Vs ones that run with plenty of power?
@@SamsTrains- could you add a multimeter measuring current drawn and work out relative motor efficiency? My guess is modern motors either have cheaper magnets (shortage of rare earth elements) or the build quality is poor. I know a Japanese motor maker ceased production a few years ago as he couldn’t get the magnets. Either its motors or poor transmission design that can’t cope with corners. I know from experience a motor with weak magnets tends to draw excess current, more so under load. They get hot and eventually burn out.
Think its worthy of a 7 ,or just over,more affordable locos are definitely the way forward,interested in the BR Blue full yellows,as they don't have the green full yellows, example, on sale
Accurascale class 66 sam?
i know that this may be off topic. but have you heard of the video magazine rail scale (or was it rail scene,) either one should work. i found it on the internet archive. it could be on youtube but i don’t know if it is.
i’ll link it if you want.
Kernow did indeed do the development, I know the guy who contributed heavily to the design of the model
I did think you would get the grey one Sam, to be honest it’s fairly good, I went with 20002 in the black with silver livery and I’m very happy with mine, I have already fitted the third rail shoes to mine and some of the bufferbeam parts, at a later date I’m hoping they bachmann/EFE will do 20001 in the black with silver trim as it would be good to have both, my overall experience of EFE has been quite good, I already have one of their 58s and the 144 pacer and they are both nice models
"Grey eminence" i'd call it as it dose have this regal quality in this livery.
I am quite interested in even earlier electrical locomotives and this dose seem to be visually closer to earlier rather than later ones (admittedly largely thanks for livery).
As for the anticipated long term vitality yeah that dose bare investigations, maybe if Mr. Sam's trains audience field this every livestream for year of few intense use can be simulated.But since that is unescessarily complicated ask i guess proof will come with time only.
I rather relible runner with ease of maintenence than something that looks pristine i would be unsatisfied with this particular one but i do respect that it dose seem to have decent amount of audience that would probably purchase it.
Just bought one of the grey versions from Rails as they are now £99.50. Watched your review before buying Sam and I was in two minds. Wish I hadn't bought it. Really bad at picking up power, stops on curves and lousy over some points. My other 20 plus locos run perfectly over the same track. My first and last EFE loco. I will try to return it to Rails.
Bought one today from Rails of Sheffield for £99.50. Special offer. Unfortunately, it'll cost me more than that. I'm picking it up from the shop tomorrow - I'm bound to buy something else while I'm there.
I kind of wish British Rail had imported a GG1 from the States, then painted it up in a nice livery to run on their electrified lines. 😅
Lovely video as always Sam. They do look nice but I think I'll spend my money elsewhere. Thanks for the review.
Awesome video Sam's trains
I believe Kernow only distribute the EFE Models on behalf of Bachmann, they did not take any part in the tooling process of the Booster as far as I know
Not sure that's correct, Graham Muzprat - who works for Kernow - described this project as "pretty much his baby" as he lead the project development, so Kernow seem to have an input.
Yep - it's the other way around - EFE products are distributed by Bachmann but are produced by a handful of other parties... in this case Kernow, according to the box.
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
thank you again
I find it interesting they were developing prototype electric locos during the 2nd world war. I'd have thought industry would have been focussed elsewhere at the time
Very lovely, grey is the new black.
Believe it or not, the model of the Bulleid Booster is also made by Bachmann!!
You know what that locomotive reminds me of: The Thomas 7 Friends character Etienne.
Chloe said her favourite was the Southern green one, why didn't you get that one?!
thanks for helping me azuma like your marklin scotsman
as your loco represents a wartime loco the lights are purposely dim, as all light where dimmed or shrouded in war time
That's so amazing sam
I'm going to have to say the BR Black one I bought has a slightly better livery production. It doesn't seem to slow down too much on curves to me which suggests more of a quality control issue.
Ive got several Bachmann Class 90s and some are faster than others. Not sure why that's the case beyond the quality on that loco of it's motor and drive train.
Anyway good review though I personally think E is quite harsh as overall the loco seems good, perhaps more of a C.
Did you discover what was causing the tractor like sound you described Sam?
I never did - it seemed to just go away after a few minutes of running!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Is that a sneaky class 08 I see?
How can you measure the gauge without measuring the rim's. 😮😂😊
Brilliant looking loco 😊👍
That’s the strangest electric engine I’ve ever seen it has unique design though nice review Sam 👍🏿😃hope you have an amazing day
why is it "a curer scale" and not "ack you're a scale" as in accurate?
I just can't see what they are going to surprise us with next, I think the manufacturers have covered almost every diesel/electric loco going🤔.
Now you’ve completed your review and are able to correct any teething problems, you might want to check out the series of short videos on this loco by ‘Model Railways Unlimited’. Had your model been as troublesome as his, your rating might have been slightly lower!
Hmmm, not sure how I feel on these… I guess the prototype isn’t quite my cup of tea. It clearly has some issues… the fragility especially. But they at least haven’t charged a ludicrous amount. Could perhaps be cheaper, but still, not too bad.
One thing you never mentioned Sam, how one side has more detail than the other. Lots more… are those grills?