Coming from the Dive talk channel, having zero diving experience myself, its great to see some full cave dive footage 👍 looks like an amazing world down there
Great info. I did a SW try-dive last summer and was pleasantly surprised. Indeed, WOB didn't bother me at all. I was also surprised by the chipmunk effect when ascending in a vertical posture. My SW instructor (an expert cave explorer in Mexico) mentioned the water in the sorb thing. He said most rebreathers have a specific place to collect water. The SW doesn't have that (I don't remember why) but instead it just absorbs the water into the sorb. According to him that's no problem. It doesn't affect the sorb efficiency and you'll need a significant amount of water to cause a problem, especially given the double canister design of the SW. I loved how simplistic the unit is. Easy to understand and maintain. Remarkably low profile when mounted on an xDeep Stealth wing. Barely bigger than a standard sidemount setup. I'm considering buying one.
Thank you. Yes, I’ve read that some rebreathers have baffles to divert water/moisture into a water trap or a dump-able counter lung. I have never had enough water in it where I felt it was necessary. Yes, I agree, it’s so simple and easy to maintain. I can’t see ever having a problem with it.
I'm a UK diver. Literally yesterday we were on our way back in a mine to find a section of the ceiling had come down, severing the line. After contemplating what dying might be like, getting my breathing under control and focusing on finding an alternative route, the first thing that came to my mind was that it wouldn't have been so much of a problem on a CCR. The third diver in our group had continued the dive on his own and calmly found a route around (mines tend to have lots of ways round) because of his KISS. The benefits definitely outweigh the negatives. The KISS looks like the perfect tool, especially considering how narrow many of our caves are. I've emailed local instructors today and I think I'm jacking in open circuit overhead diving. I'm way too invested and addicted to stop now. RIP my wallet. Even my other half wants me to get one after yesterday's adventure xD
Great Job Guys! Great Video. I like how you showed the whole path. Great narration on the Kiss rebreather I may look into that. I appreciated the analysis on tanks required to do this open circuit. Hopefully my son and I will be able to make the grand traverse some day.
Thanks for watching. To be fair the video only covers the highlights as I’m sure you know, but I’ll repeat for others who don’t. It def is a great unit in my opinion. As far as making the grand traverse on open circuit. Here’s a little math that you can use to determine the amount of gas needed for the dive. CF = (ATA)(RMV)(Time). The average depth of the traverse is 50 feet. If you start at orange grove the majority of it will be with the flow. Another suggestion would be use previous dives to gauge your usage. Looking at your channel you know what you’re doing so have fun!
I should add that even though it a relatively shallow depth, you’re still going to have quite a bit of deco racked up unless you’re on a high nitrox mix. Just things to consider.
@@familyscuba1292 Thanks for the great info. Were not quite ready for that I would not want to do it without stages. Seems like a lot of ground to cover beyond challenge to Olsen that you wouldn't see until your committed. Something to look forward to in the future. Look forward to more videos from you.
I did a try dive as well and it was awesome!!! Paradise Springs I can’t wait till I can get mine I think I like the simplicity of of the sidewinder will stick with it instead of sidewinder 2
Nice dive. Great narration. I have owned the SW, but prefer a backmount now. The only concern for me currently is boat diving and deep trimix, I am full cave too, so I sold mine for an backmount with over the shoulder CLs. I originally got the KISS with a buddy, but he got the VID and can't dive now. An issue I had was with the lung shifting up so that as the wing is inflated it also compresses the lung and if you are dry the suit can also compress the lung. Loved the simplicity of the KISS. Welcome to the dark side!
Thanks for the comment. I have been diving sidemount off a boat for years. I know it’s not the popular thing to do, but it works for me. I wondered the same thing about the CL being sandwiched between my drysuit and wing but I haven’t experienced any issues thus far. We shall see once I get into deep trimix stuff. In the end, I like the tight caves and wreck penetrations so this is the tool for me. Time will tell. Thanks again.
What are you using for your sidemount/dil out bottles. I’ve done the same dive with a pair of LP50’s and my winder. Also did it OC with 2 85’s and one AL 80 stage
@@familyscuba1292 ??? I have about 150 hours on my winder, have dove it with LP50’s, LP45’s (i really like these) and LP 85’s if going deep, or long penetrations. Deep with Trimix. My max penetration with 50’s is around 2500’ if swimming, anything further than that I carry an AL 80 and drop for additional BO.
@@familyscuba1292 I dive up around Marianna a lot. Down around the Peacock area P3 is good if it’s not siphoning too bad, I really like Cow if you haven’t done it you should. I like little river as well.
An hour and 45 minutes. Not much flow at the beginning when you’re going against it. But most of the dive is with the flow if you start at orange grove.
It’s mounted on a GoPro floating handle. I typically hold it and my light in my left hand. I like to keep them separated so that I can move the light around or to my right hand for better angles when the vis isn’t the best.
I just want to say since you mentioned it from the beginning is having concern for enough bailout gas. If you were concerned it seems like your probably didn't have enough bailout gas in case of emergency. With cave diving I think its best to plan for the absolute worst case scenario. Now obviously a team bail out plan if that was in place I can understand. I think of worst case scenario as split up from the group or dive buddy, full rebreather failure, silted up cave, cut line, mid way point in the cave off the line, etc.
I think you are over simplifying my statement. There is always concern, therefore there is always a plan. No concern, leads to complacency, which leads to poor planing, which leads to dive accidents. If anything we over plan and def over estimate our gas management. If you recall from the video, we had a maximum of 900 feet exit to exit. That means that we would have a maximum of 450 feet from the closest exit point. With an average swim speed of 50 feet per minute we would have approximately a 9 min swim to reach daylight. 9 min at a maximum depth of 60 feet with an SCR of .8 means that we would have needed approximately 20cf of gas to reach an exit. Let’s double that for arguments sake and make it an even 40cf. I had over 100cf of bailout. My buddy had 80. Where we concerned, always. Did we have a well thought out plan, absolutely.
If you are off the line, you shouldn't be in a cave, period. If you can't handle following a line in zero vis because of silt, you shouldn't be in a cave, period. A broken line creates a possible need to turn the dive. There was always an exit within 450 feet. The worst case scenario would be a line break just before an exit. This means if you turned the dive, max distance to an exit was 900 feet. The gas plan was well calculated and there was plenty of bailout for rebreather failure on this dive.
@@familyscuba1292 bad math. OG to Challenge is just under 1800ft, at the mid point you were 900ft away from a source of air. The 450 figure you came up with is incorrect. Stay stroke, and stay at peacock 🙏
@@joshfugwood4442 you sir are correct. I kept thinking half the distance to an exit I accidentally halved it again in my explanation. The math however is correct and still stands. We had plenty of bailout to exit from any point in the traverse. If I’m wrong please elaborate. I don’t claim to know everything but I can reassure you I don’t take dive planning lightly.
@@familyscuba1292 if 450ft is wrong then obviously the subsequent calculations were wrong…hence bad math. Too little BO? Not at all. It’s pretty much impossible to NOT have enough BO in the P1 system. A single 80 is plenty adequate. The notion that a traverse is an intelligent dive while still figuring out how to pilot a winder? Nahh but you knew that🍆
Lol. It’s funny how people can do equally dangerous activities yet have such a different opinion about it. For me, I think it’s the sensation of falling that terrifies me. I just can’t do it.
That’s what my instructor mentioned when we took it apart after the first dive. There are no baffles or a trap to divert it so it has a direct shot to the canister. So far no issues. Thanks for watching.
Yes, I am full cave certified. I don’t think I’ve ever listed out any of my certifications now that I think about it. Thanks for asking. I’m also deco certified and advanced wreck certified through TDI.
@@11lauramc Thanks. I don’t make these videos for the sake of subscribers or views. But thank you. I just hope people get something useful out of them and it helps to some capacity. I don’t claim know more than the next guy, just sharing my opinion.
Understandable, I’m only a rescue diver myself, no additional certs as I had to stop due to Asthma popping up to say hi again lol. I watch/dive vicariously through others, but too many times do I see unqualified/uneducated divers filming themselves doing reckless dives and surviving out of sheer luck. It’s good you’re not one of them. It’s great to actually see a full cave dive vid too, always been a curiosity of mine but one I’m not willing to sate myself
“Uh but uh it uh it has uh some uh some beautiful uh views uh”……do us all a favor and write a script to read off next time. I’m not trying to be hateful but that one thing takes your video from a 9/10 to a 4/10.
Yeah. I just don’t have time for that. I appreciate the feedback. I must have been thinking about something totally different while trying to spit that out.
Coming from the Dive talk channel, having zero diving experience myself, its great to see some full cave dive footage 👍 looks like an amazing world down there
Thanks. I try to include as much footage as possible so others can reference it. It def is amazing. So much to see!
Great info. I did a SW try-dive last summer and was pleasantly surprised. Indeed, WOB didn't bother me at all. I was also surprised by the chipmunk effect when ascending in a vertical posture.
My SW instructor (an expert cave explorer in Mexico) mentioned the water in the sorb thing. He said most rebreathers have a specific place to collect water. The SW doesn't have that (I don't remember why) but instead it just absorbs the water into the sorb. According to him that's no problem. It doesn't affect the sorb efficiency and you'll need a significant amount of water to cause a problem, especially given the double canister design of the SW.
I loved how simplistic the unit is. Easy to understand and maintain. Remarkably low profile when mounted on an xDeep Stealth wing. Barely bigger than a standard sidemount setup. I'm considering buying one.
Thank you. Yes, I’ve read that some rebreathers have baffles to divert water/moisture into a water trap or a dump-able counter lung. I have never had enough water in it where I felt it was necessary. Yes, I agree, it’s so simple and easy to maintain. I can’t see ever having a problem with it.
I'm a UK diver. Literally yesterday we were on our way back in a mine to find a section of the ceiling had come down, severing the line. After contemplating what dying might be like, getting my breathing under control and focusing on finding an alternative route, the first thing that came to my mind was that it wouldn't have been so much of a problem on a CCR. The third diver in our group had continued the dive on his own and calmly found a route around (mines tend to have lots of ways round) because of his KISS.
The benefits definitely outweigh the negatives. The KISS looks like the perfect tool, especially considering how narrow many of our caves are. I've emailed local instructors today and I think I'm jacking in open circuit overhead diving. I'm way too invested and addicted to stop now. RIP my wallet. Even my other half wants me to get one after yesterday's adventure xD
That is absolutely stunning. Great video
Thank you. And thanks for watching.
This was really cool to watch. Subscribed and looking forward to any more.
Thank you. It was a great dive. Have some more fun dives in the works. Be posting soon.
Great Job Guys! Great Video. I like how you showed the whole path. Great narration on the Kiss rebreather I may look into that. I appreciated the analysis on tanks required to do this open circuit. Hopefully my son and I will be able to make the grand traverse some day.
Thanks for watching. To be fair the video only covers the highlights as I’m sure you know, but I’ll repeat for others who don’t. It def is a great unit in my opinion. As far as making the grand traverse on open circuit. Here’s a little math that you can use to determine the amount of gas needed for the dive. CF = (ATA)(RMV)(Time). The average depth of the traverse is 50 feet. If you start at orange grove the majority of it will be with the flow. Another suggestion would be use previous dives to gauge your usage. Looking at your channel you know what you’re doing so have fun!
I should add that even though it a relatively shallow depth, you’re still going to have quite a bit of deco racked up unless you’re on a high nitrox mix. Just things to consider.
@@familyscuba1292 Thanks for the great info. Were not quite ready for that I would not want to do it without stages. Seems like a lot of ground to cover beyond challenge to Olsen that you wouldn't see until your committed. Something to look forward to in the future. Look forward to more videos from you.
I did a try dive as well and it was awesome!!! Paradise Springs I can’t wait till I can get mine I think I like the simplicity of of the sidewinder will stick with it instead of sidewinder 2
I wonder if it will be less expensive than the S2. That would be a bonus.
@@familyscuba1292 from what I understand it will be while they are in stock will be coming out of Poland
@@ivoryjohnson4662 can’t wait to see it in action. Like you I like the original.
Nice dive. Great narration. I have owned the SW, but prefer a backmount now. The only concern for me currently is boat diving and deep trimix, I am full cave too, so I sold mine for an backmount with over the shoulder CLs. I originally got the KISS with a buddy, but he got the VID and can't dive now. An issue I had was with the lung shifting up so that as the wing is inflated it also compresses the lung and if you are dry the suit can also compress the lung. Loved the simplicity of the KISS. Welcome to the dark side!
Thanks for the comment. I have been diving sidemount off a boat for years. I know it’s not the popular thing to do, but it works for me. I wondered the same thing about the CL being sandwiched between my drysuit and wing but I haven’t experienced any issues thus far. We shall see once I get into deep trimix stuff. In the end, I like the tight caves and wreck penetrations so this is the tool for me. Time will tell. Thanks again.
Really nice video.
I will definitely get cave certified…so cool.
Thank you. I highly recommend it. So many cool places to visit.
Awesome dive !
Definitely a great location with crystal clear water and low flow. Can’t wait to go back!
What are you using for your sidemount/dil out bottles. I’ve done the same dive with a pair of LP50’s and my winder. Also did it OC with 2 85’s and one AL 80 stage
Same, sidewinder and two pumped up 50’s. Sounds about right on OC. What do your recommend diving out there?
@@familyscuba1292 ??? I have about 150 hours on my winder, have dove it with LP50’s, LP45’s (i really like these) and LP 85’s if going deep, or long penetrations. Deep with Trimix. My max penetration with 50’s is around 2500’ if swimming, anything further than that I carry an AL 80 and drop for additional BO.
@@cavediver2579 I meant dive locations, lol. But thanks for the info, good to know.
@@familyscuba1292 I dive up around Marianna a lot. Down around the Peacock area P3 is good if it’s not siphoning too bad, I really like Cow if you haven’t done it you should. I like little river as well.
@@cavediver2579 Awesome. Thanks for the recommendations.
awesome!
Thank you.
Just beginning to watch now. What was total dive time?
An hour and 45 minutes. Not much flow at the beginning when you’re going against it. But most of the dive is with the flow if you start at orange grove.
@@familyscuba1292 Thank you!
How do you mount your camera?
It’s mounted on a GoPro floating handle. I typically hold it and my light in my left hand. I like to keep them separated so that I can move the light around or to my right hand for better angles when the vis isn’t the best.
I just want to say since you mentioned it from the beginning is having concern for enough bailout gas. If you were concerned it seems like your probably didn't have enough bailout gas in case of emergency. With cave diving I think its best to plan for the absolute worst case scenario. Now obviously a team bail out plan if that was in place I can understand. I think of worst case scenario as split up from the group or dive buddy, full rebreather failure, silted up cave, cut line, mid way point in the cave off the line, etc.
I think you are over simplifying my statement. There is always concern, therefore there is always a plan. No concern, leads to complacency, which leads to poor planing, which leads to dive accidents. If anything we over plan and def over estimate our gas management. If you recall from the video, we had a maximum of 900 feet exit to exit. That means that we would have a maximum of 450 feet from the closest exit point. With an average swim speed of 50 feet per minute we would have approximately a 9 min swim to reach daylight. 9 min at a maximum depth of 60 feet with an SCR of .8 means that we would have needed approximately 20cf of gas to reach an exit. Let’s double that for arguments sake and make it an even 40cf. I had over 100cf of bailout. My buddy had 80. Where we concerned, always. Did we have a well thought out plan, absolutely.
If you are off the line, you shouldn't be in a cave, period. If you can't handle following a line in zero vis because of silt, you shouldn't be in a cave, period.
A broken line creates a possible need to turn the dive. There was always an exit within 450 feet. The worst case scenario would be a line break just before an exit. This means if you turned the dive, max distance to an exit was 900 feet.
The gas plan was well calculated and there was plenty of bailout for rebreather failure on this dive.
@@familyscuba1292 bad math. OG to Challenge is just under 1800ft, at the mid point you were 900ft away from a source of air. The 450 figure you came up with is incorrect.
Stay stroke, and stay at peacock 🙏
@@joshfugwood4442 you sir are correct. I kept thinking half the distance to an exit I accidentally halved it again in my explanation. The math however is correct and still stands. We had plenty of bailout to exit from any point in the traverse. If I’m wrong please elaborate. I don’t claim to know everything but I can reassure you I don’t take dive planning lightly.
@@familyscuba1292 if 450ft is wrong then obviously the subsequent calculations were wrong…hence bad math. Too little BO? Not at all.
It’s pretty much impossible to NOT have enough BO in the P1 system. A single 80 is plenty adequate. The notion that a traverse is an intelligent dive while still figuring out how to pilot a winder? Nahh but you knew that🍆
That's a hard nope from me brother. I think I'd rather parachute from a plane.
Lol. It’s funny how people can do equally dangerous activities yet have such a different opinion about it. For me, I think it’s the sensation of falling that terrifies me. I just can’t do it.
The moisture is probably more likely spit, you exhale more than you think
That’s what my instructor mentioned when we took it apart after the first dive. There are no baffles or a trap to divert it so it has a direct shot to the canister. So far no issues. Thanks for watching.
I don't know why a person would put his or her family through this.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
Are you cave certified? I didn’t quite catch if you said you were
Yes, I am full cave certified. I don’t think I’ve ever listed out any of my certifications now that I think about it. Thanks for asking. I’m also deco certified and advanced wreck certified through TDI.
@@familyscuba1292 awesome! I’ll happily hit subscribe then!
@@11lauramc Thanks. I don’t make these videos for the sake of subscribers or views. But thank you. I just hope people get something useful out of them and it helps to some capacity. I don’t claim know more than the next guy, just sharing my opinion.
Understandable, I’m only a rescue diver myself, no additional certs as I had to stop due to Asthma popping up to say hi again lol. I watch/dive vicariously through others, but too many times do I see unqualified/uneducated divers filming themselves doing reckless dives and surviving out of sheer luck. It’s good you’re not one of them. It’s great to actually see a full cave dive vid too, always been a curiosity of mine but one I’m not willing to sate myself
@@11lauramc Are you not able to dive at all? Scuba has become such a huge part of my life I don’t know what I would do with all the spare time. Lol.
“Uh but uh it uh it has uh some uh some beautiful uh views uh”……do us all a favor and write a script to read off next time. I’m not trying to be hateful but that one thing takes your video from a 9/10 to a 4/10.
Yeah. I just don’t have time for that. I appreciate the feedback. I must have been thinking about something totally different while trying to spit that out.