Why Remaking FE4 and FE5 Together is Bad
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2019
- A lot of people want to see old Fire Emblem games combined when remade. This is a terrible idea, and I'm gonna explain why, starting with Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776.
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convince me to combine fe6+fe7 here. or fe4+fe5 if you dare.
Mekkkah You could get away with FE6+7 because of how similar the two games are when it comes to the engine.
Fe4 and fe5 would fucking suck. Fe6&7 is actually a good idea because with the new model for fire emblem games, where pairing up your units IS the norm, it would allow players to influence the second generation. Another more viable idea would be to publish the fe6 and fe7 remakes as separate games with linking bonuses, similar to how Fe9&10 work, but with an actual influence on what characters you get
Also that you can get bonuses and characters based on what they did and who they married. Like what Hawkeye did in between, the Pegasus sisters and Lyn join with their children, Bartre might be useful if his stats carry over or Canas leaves his tomes and assorted goodies. Stuff like that.
I'm pretty sure they could do it like in Xenoblade 2 and Torna, where you just hit a button on the title screen to change between FE 4 and 5. The combat in those games are different enough for anyone to notice the difference between them, yet they still integrated it fine. The story connections between the two games would make people want a simultaneous release so they don't have to wait years to find out what happens in Thracia.
Having a anthology collection for older, related games is a good idea as far as convincing the consumer that this antiquated RPG is worth a full price buy. The only viable strategy for a combined remake would be the KH : The Story So Far Collection approach wherein both titles are just on a single cart, and even then, I'd argue that the only games that could really work well with that are Elibe and Tellius due to the similarity of their mechanics.
But honestly, there's no remake scenario where either Tellius or Jugdral are combined into one. Thracia is just too different mechanically to keep the same consumer appeal between titles and Tellius is just too huge. PoR is already a fairly lengthy linear FE story, but RD is a CHONKER of a game that would demand resources far beyond IS's capabilities. The only way that a remake would be viable is if they leaned more towards SoV as far as presentation scope went, and at that point, you are becoming something of a downgrade as far as the map view would go.
Ultimately, I think IS has been shooting for scale and spectacle in their last 2 original titles and that mindset just isn't conducive to a remake of a game that would essentially be twice as long as a linear FE title. A change in mentality might make such a thing possible, especially for the GBA games, but I don't really think that is a feasible ask of current IS.
Mekkah’s really standing by his principles, making two vids about fe4+5 and fe6+7 being a bad idea instead of combining it into one.
4 years and no reply comment? Let me fix that
The fact they play so differently also means they feels very differently
FE4 is a true epic full of larger than lives characters, almost archetypes.
While FE5 is much more focused on Leif's personal journey, brutal, haunting. It's a never ending nightmare, much more visceral.
Mangs likes the second half of this comment
Geneology: Grand campaigns and massive battles.
Thraccia: A rather small warband fighting a guerilla war to liberate their homeland.
@@MogofWar not to mention newcomers playing genealogy , then seeing Thraccia as a side story they think theyre gonna have the same kind of game. Then their expectations will be shattered ,
I think it's a really big indicator of their scale that something which was a small detour as part of a chapter in Genealogy was a massive pitched battle in Thracia. Chapters in Genealogy are meant to represent long military expeditions involving armies of men that last for months, while chapters in Thracia are meant to represent brief, brutal skirmishes involving only a few dozen combatants that are over as soon as they've begun.
Really, it adds a lot to both games when you realize that the mildly involved encounter you have with Leif in Genealogy is meant to fit his entire long journey in Thracia.
Jokes aside, having a random Avatar that comes out of nowhere marry Sigurd instead of Deirdre would literally save Jugdral.
They hated him for he spoke the truth
"Breaking news: random mary sue fucks the prince of Jugdral and saves the land"
@John Adams Substitute spouse for Arvis then. And Seliph needing to take down Julius without a sister to help.
lmfao
What they say: "I think a remake of FE4 and FE5 is a great idea."
What they mean: "I've never played FE4 or FE5."
"What do you mean Reinhardt and Ishtar isn't playable? What do you mean Ayra isn't godly like in Heroes?"
chaz my boi, does that mean Mangs never played fe4 and fe5? Last time I heard he said that it was a good idea.
@@korinoriz She might not be but her daughter definitely is. Just for that she's worth using.
Rogue Slushy I mean to be fair Ayra can kill anything in genealogy, she just won’t reach the enemies
Remaking the two together would give me Gameplay Whiplash. The difference in mechanics is too massive to make a faithful remake that feels consistent.
I love both FE4 and FE5 too much to see them being bogged down by each other.
"The difference between Genealogy and Thracia is like light and day"
- Mekkah, Ethereal Moon 2019
But not only that. Remaking a game, especially one as old as those two is the same as making a brand new one. Nothing of the original code is of any use so they have to make it all over again. They also have to do a lot of testing to make sure the brand new code comes to roughly the same conclusions as the original.
Making both of them means having to make 2 games with the budget of only 1. So that means the team will either have to cut corners wherever possible or will have to resort to EA levels of monetization to break even.
On that I do think full voice acting should be removed from Fire Emblem. I do think it should stay for major cutscene's but the supports and day-to-day talk can be just text. Voice acting is a huge money sink. Game budgets are only so big so all the money spend on voice acting is taken away from other elements like map design or animation.
@@MrMarinus18 “I think full voice acting should be removed from Fire Emblem.” Hehe sometimes even geniuses have silly ideas
@@captainmega6310 I'm not kidding though. Budgets for games are limited. I think if they had put the money from the voice acting in three houses into making more varied animations it would have been a big positive.
@@MrMarinus18 oh no you aren’t. That makes it funnier. If you really want things like that, they best cut down on those supports then get rid of something like voice acting
@@captainmega6310 Huh?
I'm not saying to get rid of supports. Why would I? They should keep supports but not have them voice acted. Voice acting is expensive so it would be more effective to only use it on the most important cutscene's. That way more money is available for other things.
Mekkah: Do you really think you are going to get two games for the price of one?
Me: Two words, Bargain Ring.
FE4 Remake; $60 plus $40 for dlc
FE5 Remake; $60 plus $70 for dlc
Bargain Ring; $4000 (Half off of all FE products for the rest of your life)
@@Kryptnyt Lessee... Without DLC, this would make 67 Games without DLC(Assuming the price stays at 60, which it likely ain't gonna do thanks to inflation) the minimum nessecary to make a profit with a bargain ring
@@chelvo56 But people buy "Season passes" all the time so someone would be foolish enough to buy
Also I imagine a lot of Heroes players spend enough money to make it worth. (rip)
Games have more content nowadays so, we should be able to to get two old games for the price of one
@@alphamarigi unlikely, as the only instance where nintendo made collections of old games was Super Mario All Stars, Metroid Prime Trilogy, and a Kirby collection on the wii that I forgot the name of. Also, IS themselves have never released a collection before, not even for Fire Emblem's 25(2015) anniversary, so I doubt they would for the 30 anniversary(2020).
But if they combine them Mangs can fail to Ironman them both in one attempt
Alright I'm sold now.
A very compelling argument
Should've put this in the top comment
bro if they have avatar kun in a fe4 remake then im flipping tables
They won't do it, remember SoV
They might remember FE12
Dimitri good one, although it’s a possibility it’s still funny
Getting a FE4 remake but it having an avatar would be the worst monkey's paw moment ever
@@Artemas_16 -Faye and Conrad are avatar characters-
Me: Why Remaking FE4 and FE5 Together is Bad?
Mekkah: Because you can't get the Perfect "Thracia 776" experience... in America ~
Wait... is Mekkah Canadian? In America?
Katrina Payne I’m pretty sure he lives in the Netherlands
@@NimhLabs "In America" is a reference to the old translation patch where Kempf in FE5 says "They've fallen right into my trap, in America!", which is also in turn a reference to Bandit Kieth from Yu Gi Oh abridged series.
But as TAC said, he's from the Netherlands.
@@tac__9036 I thought he was making a Bandit Kieth refrance, IN AMERICA!
@@StivKobra maybe the remake could have "bad translations" in the options menu
I hadn’t thought about shoehorning in avatar characters into fe 4 and 5.
Imagine the story of FE4 if you marry Sigurd
Tainted. If they want to add an Avatar, My idea is to replace Oifey with such avatar and Oifey is the default Character. Why Oifey? Because he has (almost) no personality and his existence is to have a Jagen in Gen 2 and to somehow make sence on How Seliph is Raised without Sigurd.
You can marry Sigurd, but only if you arranged something to happen in chapter 3.
@@chillstoneblakeblast3172 Insulting based Oifey by saying he has no personality is a sin.
So, you want to be burned on the stake like the Loptyr cultists, or would you rather receive the child hunt treatment?
@@StivKobra Please sent them little boys at the stake.
@@StivKobra I mean Oyfaye has only 1 personality trait: loyalty. That is it
Dude, why did you leak the title of the FE4 remake?! Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Shipping War was supposed to be revealed soon! D:
Oh dear, I want to see the faces of the shipper fans when that pivotal event happens in FE4.
Props to Chris who did a really good job of editing this
Oh hey it's Mangs' stream secretary
Duh. Fe4 + Fe5 would just be Fe9.
tEcHnIcAlLy, it would be 2f+2e(5.436564)+9
when mekkah pulls out the royalty free music you know he's going to spit some straight facts
Playing Fe4 Part 1, then Fe5, then Fe4 Part 2 sounds like something you'd read on Kidzworld.
I feel like FE 6+7 would work significantly better than FE 4+5, but honestly, I agree that they should probably just remain separate.
FE6+7 would be perfect for Roy's 20th birthday
@@scoffeex1740 Easily agreeable. I would be happy to buy a Switch just for this game (that and any other remakes that they make).
As someone said in the comments, they could put a remake of both games in one cardtrige, just like The Nonary Games. Those are two different games, in mechanics and story, but they share some characters, and things that happened in the first one still happened in the second.
They were originally two different games, but they decided to make a collection. They could remake Genealogy and Thracia 776 that way, not changing anything about the playstyle of both games.
everytime someone suggest a fe 4/5 combined remake a small part of my soul dies
mine's already gone
let remake FE4/5 and combined them.
@@Mekkkah don't be silly mekkkah
*you never had a soul*
I think combining them would be a terrible idea, because of time and resources.
Instead of getting 2 good games, we'd get 1 good game that lacks a lot of polish, and that's not something that people will like in the long run.
A good example of lack of resources and time is Three Houses.
There have been many dev interviews about how they wanted to do so much more with it, but they simply didn't have enough time to go through everything before the deadline post game delay.
That probably explains the reused maps in every route
This probably explains why CF is a bit lacking in...everything.
FE3 is a prime example. FE3 is one of my favorite games in the entire series, but it really feels like it lacks a lot of polish and book 1 had cut chapters and characters, and book 2 was around the same length as book 1 meaning had it been a stand alone game, it could of been more, something FE12 proves. I think FE12 went about the extra chapters poorly, I did not like the Katarina plot for the most part, but I understand the reasoning for it, that being they didn't want to make huge deviations from the original story and decided to keep it detached. However had FE3 had an extra 5 or so chapters way back in 1990 or w/e it was, I am sure instead of a side-plot they would of been fully integrated with the main story.
Do you have any links to those interviews?
Heck,we can use FE14 as a prime example. Instead of making a single kickass game, IS ended up making three mediocre titles. I know FE14 is an original game and not a remake, but the point still stands.
Also that "stop and play FE5 here" suggestion is insane. Who tf does that?
The same buffoons that tells people to Kill off seth in FE8 amd every Recruitable red unit should be killed for EXP
I`m about to do it on my project naga run of fe4.... so maybe I`m insane. The reason people didn`t do this more often is because fe5 was inaccessible, and the reason I`m personally doing it is for the story.
I do play untranslated games in japanese (like the SRW series); but I play those games mostly for the mechanics, the anime series and the animations. The appeal to do this now is because both fire emblem games are available with great translations. Sometimes the reason people haven`t done runs like that isn`t general lack of interest, but rather the lack of accessibility.
@@rufrox9947 It still doesn't make sense even from a story perspective. Stories aren't always meant to be told chronologically.
I considered doing it this way but decided against it
@@ezzenious9923 Yeah, the problem with the whole idea is that it's kind of bad from the start. FE5 is a side story that explains the deal with a moderately important character, not a vital missing part in the saga. It would make for an interesting experience tonally, since it would impress just how miserable and shitty FE4's timeskip period was, but that's not the same thing as being the intended experience. Kaga probably had no idea what Thracia's plot was going to be outside of broad strokes when he finished up FE5.
Anyone arguing about breaking up Sigurd and Deirdre will have to go through Ryn...
Ryn is gonna find them and orko with aura tome
Intsys seems pretty faithful with canon couples in Heroes. I know >heroes but I wouldn't like that tinkering either.
@@MetaDash They didn't meddle with Echoes canon couples so I doubt they'll ruin Cuan, Ethlyn, Sigurd, and Julia. But hey maybe they will add an avatar and ruin everything.
@@korinoriz bleh.
@@korinoriz I don't think they are THAT stupid to ruin canon couples that are cruicial to those stories like Sigurd and Deirdre. Y'all are overreacting as usual. But if it's directed by Maeda, well... I'm not sure really.
Okay but how about they remake FE9 and 10 and combine them into one game?
I'm for hire, IS.
i dont want this dr to fix my anime
@@britishleprechaun9655 Just play them then...
I can understand someone wanting say a FE2 remake since the pace of the NES one is so damn slow and it has 8-bit graphics and sound and such, but FE9/10 were for the GCN and Wii, so they won't look "ugly" and sound hasn't really evolved much since then, so sound-wise it wouldn't be going backwards. FE9/10 both have a modern pace to them as well unlike when you play the NES ones in comparison to today's (which feel very clunky and slow). What in FE9/10 is worth constituting a remake? Remaster at best maybe with FE9 getting some better polished graphics, but really that's it.
HD upscale?
@@DrewPicklesTheDark the price(fe10 alone gets to around 120$/€. and fe9 is basicly unplayable withput emulator), battleanimations in fe9 having better pacing(slower movements, faster camera), those animationscreens showing battlestats, including both easy mode and maniac mode into one release,fixing localisation in fe10 up,possibly an easy mode for fe10 to get newer fans to play it,etc. there are actually a lot of reasons why one would want a remake of the telliusgames. not to mention the models in fe9 do actually look kinda bad.
Wouldn't that kinda just count as an HD remastered collection?
'Character's playable in both games include Leif, Nanna, Finn and Ced."
I thought you loved mounted units. Rest in Piece. Dermott. Forgotten by even Mekkah.
One Point i disagree with: The notion that remakes have to be as faithful as possible. It's my gripe with Echoes as well.
Now, i am not saying i want an avatar in FE4 (Thinking about that alone makes me wanna throw up), but if changing gameplay mechanics will make the game more fun, then for the love of god just do it.
I see nothing wrong with FE4 adapting any, if not all of FE5 mechanics, like capturing, no pursuit bs, normal trading system, FE5 Leadership, etc.. Will just make the game more fun imo.
If remakes are just gonna be the old games but HD'fied, i might as well stick with the old games i already played. Story parts could also be rewritten to fit with each other.
The more changes to a remake the better imo (except if it's Avatar-kun/Kris again. No, just no.)
Or maybe i am just talking from the point of someone who while loves FE4, finds it a slog to play through, and loves FE5's mechanics much much more.
I do agree that it should be a remake's job to fix it's precedesor's shortcomings but that ain't what Mekkah said tho, he said he'd like it if they remained faithful in the character aspect of thracia in specific if I understood correctly
I agree. As much as I love Echoes for example, I feel like IS missed an opportunity to fix some of the bland maps of Gaiden. I think a remake should be allowed to take risks and fix some of the shortcomings of the original.
Yeah, Fatigue for FE4 maps is an idea that can burn in hell. I also feel like a lot of the FE5 changes in general would mess with the more long-term, large-scale decision-making FE4 is going for. Capturing and the standard trading system would disrupt the economy, demanding the arena be changed, but then EXP distribution gets fucked up. Furthermore, all of this has an impact on the sort of decision-making which goes into inheritance, and would require a total rework of Theives (which I'm not particularly opposed to tbh). Getting rid of pursuit radically changes the character balance, and removes Arden's ONLY utility, you dick /s. It also messes with the Inheritance incentives, so creates a compounding need for re balancing. Despite my joke, it would also probably demand the creation of another ring, and another skill for it to bestow, which would be difficult to make fit, but is potentially interesting. Beyond the workload however, I think such changes would remove a lot of FE4s character as the BIG Fire Emblem game, which brings me to what I'd like to throw into a potential remake.
I want more base stuff in FE4. It's not very Fire Emblem I know, but neither is FE4 really. You spend all this time capturing castles in the game and then you just ride off to grab the next one, it's a tad underwhelming. I'd like some sort of revenue system associated with them, a genuine need to defend your positions, the capacity to invest in defenses for bases, more inter-chapter grand strategy, etc. It would be a radical departure, but I think if handled right it could be incorporated with little harm to the main narrative, and make the large-scale conflicts of that game feel much more credible. Wouldn't require too many mechanical changes either, just additions. This is all to say that I don't want Fe4s particularity mitigated in a potential remake, I'd like to see it emphasized and expanded, which is the big reason I'd be against this bundle.
That being said, the removal of the weapon triangle was one of my favorite additions of Shadows of Valentina. Though, if we're being faithful to the original, the weapon triangle is Geneology's child.
Thing is... FE 4 ALREADY HAS a character who acts as the interface between the player and the narrative, in Oifey. He'll probably be made into the Avatar character in any FE4 remake we get.
Anyone who suggests combined remakes for any Fire Emblem game have almost definitely not played either game they’re suggesting, fact.
Yup
Nah they probably just played FE7, that’s it
To be fair fe 6 and 7 are similarish and have some child characters so I see where they're coming from. However the latter point is over valued which is where it falls apart.
I've played FE6 and 7 and still want it to happen. The games aren't THAT different.
Tuskoub for fe4 and 5, yeah, but fe6 and 7 are mechanically identical
Oh please Mekkah, Fire Emblem New Mystery of the Emblem Heroes of Light & Shadow got nothing on Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha Vs the Soulless Army
What about Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 2 Innocent Sin?
@@chrisf.9595 Man that was such a good game!
@@chrisf.9595 motor cycle noises
I prefer the full title of "Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha XIV vs King Abaddon and the Soulless Army"
I, too, once thought that combining games together for one game was a good idea. But once you think about the implementation of that idea for more than 3 minutes, it falls apart pretty quickly. The only two games I think could get away with it are FE9 and 10, but even that is a muddy situation.
It'd make Ilyana useful, if she started as a sage for Micaiah's army. Some much-needed good muscle for the Dawn Brigade. Hell, you wouldn't even have to use her too much in PoR to get her up stronger than she is at the start of FE10.
@@HollowGolem Ilyana IS useful in Part 1, especially with transfers and the fact she can be promoted at base level, certainly more than trash like Meg/Aran/Fiona. Her bigger issue is that she leaves for the Greil Mercs where she's a peon among gods, even though the DB needs her much more.
how about writing supportconvos or erase the shmugbrigade? it is kinda like the celicasituration where it would be better if the characters army would not be playable
@@lpfan4491 ...what? Who is arguing that fe2/15 would be a better game if Celica wasn't playable?
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 Me
adding an avatar unit to FE4 remake is especially dumb for the reasons you mentionned
for FE5 it wouldn't have an impact so i guess that ok? but so far they only did the avatar thing in NMoTE and since they skipped it in Echoes i doubt they'll come back to it for remakes
I mean in FE4 Seliph is basically his own avatar, as for FE5 the avatar is usually a strategist of sorts that leads the team to victory and serve as a mentor/shoulder to the lord, which would literally just be August.
if we're talking about tacticians FE4 explicitly says that Oifey is the tactician for gen 1 and Lewyn is the tactician for gen2
and yes Seliph/Sigurd are their own avatar but so was Marth yet they added Kris
Can’t wait for Oifey to be the avatar and able to get a full support convo with every Girl!
Oh wait no I don’t kill me
Fe4 Avatar should be Oifey. Oifey does rather nothing in gen 1 except be Sigurd's tactician.
Actually from I've heard they did thought about putting in an avatar for Echoes but they didn't because it wouldn't make sense. (Thank goodness IS was smart enough to think that through.) Honestly I won't be surprised if they make Mark playable in an FE7 remake.
I made a graphic back in the day why FE6 having the children mechanic is nonsense. Looking back the disaster is made that FE7 has prequelitis and contradicts so much of FE6 you have to twist the script one way or the other to make it work.
Imagine a sacred stones remake with an extremely high difficulty setting and it’s improved to include paralougue chapters and the normal game is extended to 30 chapters.
Don't make me hope.
>All new chapters are Monster Route Chapters
just saying, a super hard-difficulty is not something that sacred stones could not do. Like, I made a patch that includes difficulty similar to jp and even tho monsters still are weak as shit and cormag on eirikaroute is actually a beast now, riev in darkling woods is just broken. if they really wanted to, they would easily make the game into a kaizo fe.
Snow maps please
Yes ! Yes ! Yes !
"why would they remake two games and sell it as one?"
"what is crash and spyro?"
The Crash and Spyro trilogies are hardly different between entries. Minor differences aside, all three Crash Bandicoot games work the exact same way, play the exact same way and function the exact same way. Same goes for Spyro. And this isn't me bashing on those trilogies, I love them both.
@@Ocsttiac By that logic, FE6 and FE7 aren't much different from each other gameplay-wise save for some slight nuances, and FE6 having much stronger enemies on average, and Mekkkah still wouldn't want them both in one game.
@@GIR177 That's where I'd disagree with him, because I personally don't see as many hurdles and downsides to a FE6 and FE7 combo remake vs. a Jugdral one, outside of narrative flow (FE7's story doesn't flow too well into FE6's, given that FE7's story kinda has little to do with the events of Bern's invasion).
@@Ocsttiac Isn't that because during FE7, you fought mainly against the Black Fang, an assassin group from Bern, and not Bern itself. The Bern Invading was more exclusive to FE6 after Zephiel decided that humans were all sorts of bad; that the world should be returned to dragon kind, and this being after his father, King Desmond, attempted to poison him. Plus, a 20-year time-skip is a pretty long time for things not to develop into anything.
It's a bad idea because polymerization is a lame way to summon something to your side of the field
Yeah, Brilliant fusion, Instant fusion, and Super Polymerization are a lot better.
Real chads use Metalfoes fusion to play both Tellius games on their side of the field.
This is why I'm an Xyz user.
"Your Follow Up Critical Coefficient."
And that's why they call it the Pursuit Critical Coefficient.
I say no, because memes are important. Pugi already died, so we need to fucc more
Honestly, I agree with what is mentioned about FE4 and FE5 needing to be separated for sure. I do think however that if they did remake them, there would certainly need to be some changes to both games to make sense in a canonical way. It could be done like FE9 and FE10 but I feel like more context could be added and since we have the foresight of FE5 already, IS could do some cool things with it (Like in Echoes). I am eager to see just how much you will have to say on FE 7 and 6 in the future.
Mekkah : "Resources are limited , this is not Awakening , this is the real world."
Mekkah lowkey roasting FE Awakening
While that probably is Mekkah's point, you have to remember that IS pulled out all the stops for Awakening; it was a do-or-die situation for them, Awakening may have been their swan song.
I actually love Awakening.
Personally for me Awakening is the game that has make with a lot of care. Having every single thing from the previous FE games + the new Pair Up system. Having DLC , special features , special maps having throwbacks to old FE games with their characters.
Level design wise , enemy scaling , and difficulty were like pretty scatter around, but Awakening is still enjoyable nonetheless.
Not my Favorite FE game but it remind me why I love FE games (Except for Fates).
@@bernardchan181 Mekkah's talking about how you can buy almost unlimited amounts of basically any items in the game and there's unlimited grinding. There's next to no resource scarcity in Awakening.
@@bernardchan181 honestly, the series was in no danger. the needed profit was pretty lenient
@@Underworlder5 Really!? I heard that if Awakening hadn't sold, the Fire Emblem franchise was to be discontinued.
11:01
“Light and Day”
Big oof Mekkah.
Night and day...
I don't see why there's even an argument here. They're completely different games. The only ones I see any rational basis for are combining the Tellius games because it would only really be a remaster that hopefully added support convos, and even then it's a bit of a stretch.
These types of suggestions typically comes from people who haven't played them, a lot of people don't touch the JP-only games on principle and just want them remade/packed together so they'll never have to
I think an ENG version Radiant Dawn with the full script would be nice rather than the condensed one we ended up getting.
The only games that would really *need* to be bundled would be the Tellius games.
I expected this video to cover both FE4+FE5 and FE6+FE7, but why release one big video with both of these ideas, when you can make two videos? Even then, would I be willing to wait twice as long to watch that one video?
Bro Mekkkah, you forgot that Delmund is in both games 😳 Unsubbed, reported, and police called
Diarmuid and Coirpre: We're jokes to him
When I hear remaking FE4 and FE5 together I usually think of it more as a package deal and not combining the two games game play and story wise. Essentially remaking them separate, but both games are available to play in the one purchase. Call it the Jugdral Chronicles or something haha. Maybe that's too much wishful thinking?
Honestly, I could see them packaging the two together at a slight discount (instead of $120 for the two separately, you could get them for $100 together)
Can we get FE7 and FE8 together? so Lyn and erika can get useless together
Rizki M lmao this comment 😂☝🏽
Overrated =/= /Useless.
At least with Lyn.
@@XellosNi I mean, a sword-locked lord in a lance-heavy game with no strength and no mount on promotion (also she only gets bows, and E rank st that, which are completely ASS in FE7)
I can imagine it now...
hAwt eIrIkA X lYn wAiFu aCtIoN iSn'T uSeLeSs!!!
Don't forget eliwood
Still loving this new editor; that Rein bit was amazing.
Yeah these games are different beasts that they dont mash well at all. I would be ok if they did a transfer sort of system like fe9 and 10 but that would mean more effort into games that are pretty separate and not needed.
Would like to see a follow up video with fe6 and 7!
"If you've been nodding to these reasons then boy you're in for disappointment"
Actually, I was nodding to the music. I think anything's possible when it comes to rewriting the story and mechanics of FE4 and 5 in a way that feels more cohesive. And another potential pricing model is selling us Jugdral as an episodic game that would altogether cost the price of two 3DS games. Separate remakes are the most sure way of maintaining the game quality, but I also feel IS is afraid of the prospect of making a game, then setting their next game in the same world. They haven't done that since Radiant Dawn.
Personally I want them to combine them, but as a package. I have honestly never heard of people wanting them as one single game, but my opinion is that they should be both remade with the same UI etc., but as a Jugdral package. You have the choice between FE4 or FE5 to play first. I also think that this should be a thing after both get seperate releases, and be sold as a bundle.
I was playing FE4 when this video came btw.
I was playing FE 5 when this came up
Me 2
The #1 most importantly thing to when they remake Genealogy and Thracia 776 separately
Change Hannibal and Xavier's recruitment method
If the SNES Fire Emblem games were ever remade (again in FE3's case) I would love for them to look like Octopath Traveler. That "HD-2D" style would work so well for any of the SNES Fire Emblem games.
I personally think using the FE4 binary system of doubling aka needing 6 AS to double and with pursuit only 3 would end up working best in a remake as you can still have people without pursuit doubling just that it is a lot harder than other fire emblem games.
Helios Moluck This is a great suggestion!
I wondered about the Pursuit situation myself. That if we eliminated it, how would we address Arden finding the Pursuit Ring?
But with your solution, this actually sounds feasible. Keep Pursuit, but change how it works.
I also think it would be cool because after genealogy remake when they reveal a thracia remake they can make it sound more exciting for players by advertising it like "takes place during shadows of genealogy" or something.
I think the problem is marketing. Trying to advertise Thracia as the "middle story that only sort of fits with Geneology's continuity" doesn't sound all that appealing to the mainstream, particularly when everyone already knows the beginning and end. I mean you try getting someone on board with a game that gives you freaking Veld to look forward to for the final battle.
But a Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn remaster/switch port bundle??? Now that’s something we can agree on.
I’m kinda tired of the dating sim style supports, I just played TRS and the supports in that game were top notch at character development and world building.
They could do both, but thats a lot of extra work
This is a really good video. I did not know a lot about each game (aside from spoilers), so I was on the side of "yeah just put them together who cares". But this video helped me understand more... gameplay stuff ? And now I'm beginning to understand your point. Thank you for the knowledge ^^
Honestly the only argument that holds water for not remaking 4+5 is the fact that they are two VERY different games and both un desperate need of QoL improvements, and remaking them both would keep them both from being improved, leaving us with the same problem in Echoes and the Sinnoh remakes of Pokemon. Its TOO faithful to the point of bringing the same issues of the original.
However the stuff about retcons and pairing is such a non-issue. They'd just need to write the stories so there aren't retcons in Thracia. Just make the games more cohesive. They added several characters to Echoes and they were some of the most popular characters in the game.
So talking about there being Genealogy retcons in thracia isn't really a real issue.
Oh you think F12's title is bad?! Ever hear of "Yu-gi-oh: Worldwide Championship Edition, Stairway to the Destined Duel" for Gameboy Advance?
damn these titles are as long as current isekai ones
@@theprocrastinator6813 Rascal does not dream of the Rising of the Shield Gundam: Advent of the Bizzare Adventure: Diamond is not One-Punch Psycho 100
& Knuckles
I'd pay 120 dollars to return to Jugdral!!!!
and get my party barbecued in the first half 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I see your point. Right now Genealogy is my favorite game (for perspective, I'm waiting for Mangs to finish his Three houses playthrought so that he can go back to his Genealogy Ranked Run playthrought) and I would really hate the remake if they made most of the pairings fixed like forcefully pairing up Lewyn with Erinys, when I want to pair him up with Tailtiu to get Forseti on a horse, or make to Tine better. Also, I feel like the big maps of FE4 makes its charm, so having those big map be cut into smaller maps would be clunky.
The only way I think it would work for the combined remake, is if they make two different "game engine" for the two games, but that may be impratical on a developing standpoint.
I just want to play Thracia again now lol.
Forgot the biggest reference to Genealogy:
Incest.
Hahahaha exactly
You can’t actually commit incest in that game I’m pretty sure, unless you marry Seliph to Leif’s sister, in which case they would be cousins. Seliph and Julia being able to marry was a glitch of the jealousy system, not intended.
@@Fluffy56547s No, it's the issue with Deirdre and Arvis. Also the glitches for the hilarity.
@@Fluffy56547s Altena can't be married to anyone.
I completely agree. None of the arguments for combining the two convinced me and honestly it didn’t make much sense.
I also like how you mentioned the pairing aspect when it came to canon couples and who was really the father of who. I like that it’s vague who parents are. It kinda hard to explain exactly why I like it but there is something there that I like about it. I like the vagueness of a lot of things in the series and I don’t want certain things to be confirmed or denied because first we won’t have angry fans who complain that their ship/pairing isn’t canon or arrogant fans rubbing it in people’s faces that their ship/pairing is canon.
Also I admit I have been a person who said play gen 1 then FE5 then gen 2 (mostly because I thought it would be interesting) but I have since learned the error of my ways and don’t do that anymore.
You can't just admit to your mistakes and be nuanced about things, this is the internet. Quick, call me names! Do the strawman!
Mekkkah aw shit I forgot. Ok “Genealogy is so much better than Thracia asshat. Your a fucking moron is you think otherwise!!!”
How was that? It was off topic, uses “your” instead of “you’re”, used “is” instead of “if”, name called and swore.
I had no clue that people were still asking for this kind of thing
Yeah, this was really cool video :)) Your content is really good.
I'd love to see an FE6/7 remake video
I wonder if a FE4 remake would benefit from a book 1 & 2 concept. Like having the option to skip on to the 2nd gen with just substitute characters and default gear on Seliph, and friends but still keeping the gen 1 transfer system if you do it.
Huh. Had no idea Thracia did some events differently than Genealogy. I thought it neatly fit in between the two generations
There's a couple of retcons in Thracia. Most notably, Ced having canon parents in Thracia when his mother could marry almost anyone in Genealogy, a battle in Genealogy is replayed on a much grander scale in Thracia, Leif heading a different direction after meeting with Seliph in Thracia which just didn't happen in Genealogy, and a major plot point relating to Leif's parents is given different context in Thracia. That's not mentioning the numerous characters in Thracia that are not even mentioned in Genealogy.
Thracia definitely tries to tie-in with Genealogy & does do a good job at it, but it definitely made some events inconsistent in the whole Jugdral story.
I actually started playing FE4 blind last month. My original plan WAS in fact to play Gen 1, Thracia, and Gen 2 in that order. However, once I finished Chapter 5 a couple days ago... I felt compelled to keep going. I can't imagine stopping there of all places now. It would kill all of FE4's momentum.
Man, Mekkah’s clear voice and good points (because the are all good muharahoheeho) combined with stellar editing work makes for easily some of the best scripted FE content on youtube. Hope these get more exposure.
I will never understand how people think FE4 & FE5 would work as one game. FE6 & FE7 I can see because the games are mechanically similar, but FE4 & FE5 are right up there with Gaiden as some of the most unique games in the series. I find it hard to believe anyone who has played the games could actually think a joint remake would work if they out some actual thought into it.
Another thing to note with the story, FE4 has a much larger scope, while FE5 is a very small laser focused journey of a prince and his struggle to change Thracia.
I’d like if we got FE4, then FE5 and the two games were linked in some small way (something like FE9 > FE10 transfers, nothing major) but I have a hard time believing we’ll get two remakes in a row. Perhaps we could even get some new bonus trial maps that help to further link they two stories together, like maybe a map where Ced, Fee, Karin & Misha have to defend Silesse that explains more about how Misha ended up working for Friege & the situation with Lewyn not really being himself anymore, or a map where the Magi break into the monster prison right before they rescue Leif.
Regardless, getting Judgral Remakes would be so damn good, the characters in these games are already so good, and having supports to flesh the out even more would be amazing. I’d love to see a support between Delmund & Fergus that covers why Fergus can use the Beo Blade for instance.
A collection would be better instead of remaking them as one game. I think this holds true for FE6-7 cases as well, but I can see the dev friendly argument. I hope they take their time even though many people are impatient as heck with release dates.
What's interesting about 6 and 7 is that while making one game out of them is a horrible idea (same goes for most of the other pairs, mostly due to sheer game length and the amount of playable characters (FE6 has a whopping 44, the highest in the series)) applying transfer bonuses from FE7 to FE6 might be interesting and a good way to go about things (seeing as this has been done before, I see no reason why it couldn't be done again)
So yeah, remake FE6 and 7 separately, but give the child units (and any parents in both games) bonuses based on their parents' supports. (Essentially, it's Genealogy/Fateswakening-style child units accessed in the same way that you get transfer bonuses in RD)
It would also be helpful in fixing some of the issues a lot of units have in FE6, like Roy for example (EliNini A with EliHec B and NiniHawk B could generate some nice defensive boosts that Roy desperately needs)
I thought it'd be interesting.
Also, a hypothetical remake of FE6 that lets you actually use a few more units from FE7 (in particular Hector if you're fast) might be cool as well (basically, the idea is that fast play gives you some amazing prepromotes in the form of FE7's Lords, and I don't think anyone would ever pass up an opportunity to use Pent or Louise (especially given FE6's penchant for wyverns and triple effectiveness) I mean, if Bartre, Karel, and Merlinus can do it, then why not anyone else?)
It might lead to some narrative issues, but given that FE6 kind of has a bland story to begin with, I don't think it would affect too much.
I’m curious how they would tackle an FE4 remake, especially after fans were criticizing the SoV maps for being identical to Gaiden
It's scary cause I can see them changing a lot of things that makes fe 4 great. But it's not like I'm against it either cause there's also some qol stuff I'd like to see.
Weird thing is Awakening had pretty bad maps too, and Three Houses also has pretty iffy maps but people love those so I'm at a loss.
Super Castlevania was made on the SNES and the RE2 remake was made this year
Yeah, keeping the maps in FE4 is important, because those massive maps help the pacing feel epic.
On the other hand, I think that epic pacing is sometimes boring. It's too epic (Chapter 2, anyone...?) So fiddle with them. But definitely don't split them up. The point of FE4 is to feel epic in that way.
@@HollowGolem Also FE4 having massive maps is one of it's main selling points in Japan. It would be suicidal from a design standpoint to break them up for a remake.
I still have my fingers crossed for a 3 Houses DLC with the Holy Weapons in it, or maybe another throwback character like Marth, or favorite characters in the franchise, Sigurd Eldigan and Quan all together.
There’s only been one Fire Emblem that combined two games into one, and that’s Mystery of the Emblem. In that case, they combined a new story with a remake of the prequel. But when they remade Mystery of the Emblem, they split it up into two games. For the first time ever, the new half of Mystery of the Emblem was released on its own. If that’s not evidence that Intelligent Systems is no longer interested in combining games together, I don’t know what is.
Me:Trying to study
Mekkah:Talks about a great theme I am really interested in
Me:Oh no....
You are on exactly the same situation as me
Thank you, someone FINALLY making a video about this so I won't have to say it to another soul
I've gotta say Mekkah, you've definitely changed my perspective significantly. Combining the two doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore
today i'm still upset they didn't release new mystery outside japan...
I would rather have more separate remakes.
I really liked Echoes and if the future remakes are at least as good, then we have some great times ahead of us.
However Combining 6 and 7 would be much easier then 4 and 5. Gameplaywise their isn't much difference only adding custom pairings will be difficult and I'd rather have very limited options that make sense on those.
Imagine the Avatar marrying Louise, well I'm sure someone would like that.
Even though I completly agree with Mekkah, I just want to point out that there is another argument to combine them. I think Thraccia will never have a remake, or we will have to wait for thousands of years. Just look at pokemon right now, Gen one got 2 remake while gen 4 still didn't had it, and gen 4 is loved and the sales were huge.
But Thraccia is only known because of Reinhardt meme, will they really take time and effort to make an FE5 remake instead of FE6?
For FE4 it's a little bit different because it's a fan favorite.
But they made Gaiden so why not after all
Anyways DO NO COMBINE THESE GAMES IN ONE
To be fair with the Pokemon analog, each initial remake has always followed after the first set of games on a new system so it's not super surprising that Gen 4 hasn't gotten one just yet. Now if Gen 9 comes out before Gen 4 remakes, then the trend will be broken.
Note that a lot of the love for Gen 4 comes from HGSS. But I agree with your main point--a remake of FE5 seems pretty unlikely if not bundled with one of FE4.
Some kind of connectivity between the remakes that share a continent would be cool ether way
i hope if they do remake these games theyll have full voice acting and those little things like battle quotes when they first move or being impressed after killing a dude nearby
1:18 You kind of forgot to mention that FE3 and its remake FE12 are both Japanese only so I don't know how that would affect Nintendo's or IS's decisions when it comes to remake games.
We can say that Thracia 776 is a"What if" or "Off the record" story in the middle of Fire Emblem 4. I would like a remake of both and the presentation of the remake of Thracia as a "What if" story so they don't need to fix a lot of things.
that thracia footage using the shaya patch, a knife through my heart mekkah /s also why u do my boy dermott dirty like that
I'd prefer they be done separately, but if the guy responsible for Echoes is managing the project, I might be willing to let him cook.
I'd rather pay $60 twice for two fully developed remakes, than $60 for a single remake that has to have compromises because the game-play and map designs differ greatly.
Ya know what? I've been trying to write an in depth response for a good hour now, and I just can't. So I'll just summarize the point I was wanting to make:
The idea of a faithful remake is nice, but ultimately your just asking for a fresh coat of paint. It's not wrong to want that, but I believe a remake should be allowed to try and reinterpret parts of the game or story to mold itself into something unique, and not just "X but better". The remake must still be tied to the original, yes, but not shackled to it. We'll always have the original game (and Hopfully Nintendo will make it legal to have it, but I doubt it considering their track record), so letting the devs of the remake reimagine certain elements or mechanics to make them better or bring them to their full potential isn't a bad idea.
That said, I do agree the FE4 and FE5 should be separate games. But they should reverse the order. That would give them the freedom to stay faithful in ways that would be far more difficult to justify to the public who don't know or care about the complicated history of the two games if FE4 comes out first, and allow for more room for experimentation in both games.
I know this probably seems disjointed and kinda rant-ish, and I apologize, I've always been bad at writing stuff like this, but I had to get it out.
I really like this take. I don't think any remake should treat the source material as this holy artifact that can't be altered or changed in any way, and any attempt to change the established foundation is amount to blasphemy. Nintendo/IS/whatever in particular has had a fear of wanting alter parts of their games, even those that people agree aren't...the best (see Echoes map design). If changes in the script or maps or whatever can lead to a more cohesive experience that doesn't feel forced (so like no avatars and the like), I'm down with it. If people don't like the new take of the game, the original still exists for those that want to see it completely unaltered.
...the originals really should have an official English port though.
I'd say you put it more eloquently than I did in my own comment.
I agree, but I'm worried about FE 4 in this case.
Part of what makes it so interesting and distinct are things that I feel could be lost if they get "fixed" too much. The huge maps, for example.
"They're like light and day"
Maybe he wants a pair of them too
I wonder if they could do some sort of gaiden-like system for the second generation where Seliph and Leif each go through their own maps on different parts of the continent like Alm and Celica did. Either way, you’d still have the issue of vastly different gameplay. But in the unlikely event that the games are combined, that could be an option.
Man if three houses is an fe4 callback I guess we should just ignore the time awakenings story did the same thing.
Nojo bu-but awakening bad-
@@oof5992 yes
As far as i know awakening only did the children thing but three houses did the holy blood/crests, holy weapons/Relics and a time skip and brought other mechanics like the blacksmith that repairs weapons like in 4
Rodospark the first chapter chrom starts with a Falchion and the brand of the exalt and the time skip is after emmeryns death
@@nojo7564
Um no no real time passes after her death, no meaningful time anyways
No stat changes no looks, no characs dev... nothing
I've almost lost hope in a Fe4 or 5 remake, and it's an awful idea to combine two games that have completely different gameplay. At this point, I just hope a remastered compilation with english text.
With how adamant Nintendo is when it comes to not translating Mother 3, I have a feeling they're not going to touch FE4 or 5.
Mild FE4 spoiler:
At this point, how can you NOT know that Arvis is an antagonist? The entire fanbase and even Heroes has shoved it down our throats, even calling him the "Emperor of Flame."
All I really want is a Jugdral Legacy Collection sorta deal where you just select which game you want to play from the start screen. Kinda like what Megaman's been doing for Naga knows how long now.
Fe3 and Fe 12 are still both Japanese only so a fe3 remake would be possible too.
Fe12 has a full english patched version if you're curious.
@@bustergundo516 so do all the other Japan only games at this point.
@@DaniDoyle okay. Sounds good.
Are you stupid ? You do realize that fe12 is a remake of fe3 b2 and fe11 is a remake of fe1 / fe3 b1 ? They already made one
I want them combined just for that glorious box art
Excellent video, the caparison between Fe 4 and Fe5 is night and day. The mechanics are vastly different fr5 has Superior mechanics till this day I've never played another Fire Emblem game that allows you to capture enemies instead of just kill them it's very unique.
Thank you for making a video about a topic I thought was too dumb to entertain seriously.
They could just remake Genealogy and make Tharcia 776 a dlc expansion with a physical release like Xenoblade 2 to Torna Golden Country.
The best/worst way to fix Fire Emblem's self-insert protagonist problem: Make Sigurd customizable in the remake and change nothing else about the story.
Oh come on this is even worse
So just let's make four separate remakes
- Fire Emblem Genesis: The Holy War (2021 maybe)
- Fire Emblem Genesis: Thracia 776 (2023)
- Fire Emblem Sword of Binds (2027)
- Fire Emblem Sword of Blazes (2776)
I feel like the trickiest part of doing 6 and 7, either independently or as a whole package, is dealing with the paired endings of 7 and their implications for 6. Lyn especially would be a sticking point, since it would be strange if she didn't have her own child in the remake of 6, and yet if she can have a paired ending with either of the other two lords that would mean accounting for her unique child potentially being a sibling to either Roy or Lilina.
They could just add a chuld for Lyn like they added Conrad, Berkut, Rinea and Fernand to Echoes. Its not like Lyn's child would change the plot or anything, they could be just as important to the story as Lilina, i.e. not very important.
Wouldn't have to be tricky at all.