Searching For The Right Minimal Browser
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- So I have been wanting to switch away from the big, bloated, full-featured web browsers to something more minimal. Something with fewer features, less clutter on the screen, less distractions, etc. Here are a few browsers that I might try out.
ERRATA:
I mistakenly said that Qutebrowser uses the Webkit engine. Qutebrowser, by default, uses the Chromium engine. But it does have the ability to use Webkit instead, if your prefer.
REFERENCED:
► surf.suckless....
► qutebrowser.org/
► fanglingsu.git...
► minbrowser.git...
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IMHO the most important information is missing about the browsers. That question is "is there a adblock tool available" if not that browser is unuseable in the modern, ad infested web.
true
+1
Just use a PiHole
@@drinductor8150using PiHole ist just half of the work. No Script blocking included e.g.
qutebrowser haves adblock integrated for default
Sometimes the web is so bloat, you need a bloated browser. - Luke Smith
I agree to a point, I would just use the Linux terminal for everything, and a terminal web browser like w3m or lynx if it played RUclips, so I use either Brave or Firefox/IceCat/TorBrowser
@@JDStone20 RUclips with mplayer
@@oscarrzga4615 Yeah, I was using mps-youtube for a while but the I had to do a new install of my system and the new mps-youtube has a bug and won't work. I need to try out mplayer with RUclips and w3m/Lynx
Jason Daniel Stone try mpv
@@lostarts9946 Thank you. I was able to get everything working in vlc, mpv, and mplayer. I also got mps-youtube to work. I just had to create my own google youtube api number and delete cache_py
So... the Suckless browser *does* , in fact, Suck.
Farouk Mokhtari I agree, sometimes you can’t apply the suckless philosophy
I all honesty, something as naturally complex as a web brower is way to much for the suckless philosophy. Their other software is very good though, specially dmenu.
Suckmore
What a surprise. Tried st. full of bugs. they're not great at what they do
@@LucyPero what bugs? Never had a problem with st
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but you can hide the top bar in min with ctrl+m. It is shown in the preferences of the browser.
One thing that I really dislike about minimal browsers is that most of them don't have a built in adblocker and nor do they allow one to be installed.
This has been a futile quest for years. Every time I return to the one browser that actually works, good old Firefox. Make no mistake, there used to be such a browser that I have been using since the late 1990's - Opera, or rather Opera up to version 9. Alas, we seem to sacrifice so much in the name of progress.
Something critical about Firefox, Linux is the platform on which Firefox is now developed, before it is ported to other platforms. That alone, is reason enough for me to stick with Firefox for a very long time.
Min is written entirely with CSS and JavaScript using Electron...
İts boating!
I wasn't going to switch to it anyway but that seals it for me.
@@kirschkern8260 I think a good browser for you may be a proprietary solution called Vivaldi. It has tab grouping and even pausing or pausing by group as well. It's to conserve system resources. I actually did a podcast about the browser. But, everything I talk about is literally just from their website. So, it may be quicker to just jump over there and see if it meets your needs. If you don't have any reservations about using a solution that is not completely free.
Kirsch kern Yeah there an extension calley The great Suspender (I think it is called that, maybe Tab Suspender otherwise just google for it!) :)
@@WhiterockFTP I gotta check that one out too. Thanks!
Can't really complain about the use of Electron here though. This is pretty much the only situation where using a GUI framework that carries an entire web browsing engine makes sense, lol.
How about security of these browsers? Are they patched/updated as frequently as Firefox and Chromium etc?
Good question sir! Got me thinking ;D
Stay off of 4chan and PHub and you should be OK.
@@DistroTube lol
SeKuritY Is bLooOaaat
@@DistroTube DT, you should look into a small vpn called RiseUp vpn. They are free, and to me the only trustable vpn. They have been ordered to release their logs multiple times, but they always respond with the fact that they do not have the logs, they don't keep them at all. Most other VPN companies have revealed that those are just empty promises, but Riseup is the real deal. They are donation based as well, so they are a neat open source project that deserves some attention! Also getting it up and running on an Arch distro is a bit of a hassle, so a video for people to reference I can imagine would help a lot of people using Arch get exposed to them.
Sir, you are amazing. I promise when I get back on my feet from the apocalypse that 2020 has been, I will be a patreon. Until then all I can do is watch the ads. But, you are great. Thanks for sharing your time, talents and knowledge.
DT, I became a really big fan of your work! Thanks to you I migrated from Fedora to Arch and I couldn't be happier. Thanks for all the content and keep going! Cheers from Brazil.
Man I migrated from arch to fedora lol
@@sujeewa8067 Same. Arch broke my GRUB installer with an update and I've lost trust in it ever since. Atleast warn me if a breaking change is going to take place!
Luakit is another alternative, and also extensible with lua, since you've used awesomewm you'd feel right at home configuring it, although i will say that development has slowed down.
But in my opinion using a non-mainstream browser would be a no-go, since they are less secure and make you glow in the dark because of their unique fingerprint, also they lack important extensions like ublock origin, umatrix (or noscript), decentraleyes, etc.
But if you don't care about that and just want a non-bloated browser that "just werkz" i think qutebrowser would be the best alternative, since they have the largest community and sane defaults.
lookup jblock for qutebrowser.
@@MrDeejayjfx still glows in the dark.
You can solve some of the issues with loading by setting the WEBKIT_FORCE_COMPOSITING_MODE=1 environment variable
Non-javascript browsers have use-cases, but for a lot of tasks you have to have a browser with javascript and adblock.
I like using Falkon as a medium-tier minimal web browser. Found it capable enough to almost never open Firefox, and it's way lighter (though not as light as the options here)
4:07 sorry my friend, CNN is not a news site. I am enjoying your search for a minimalist browser, thanks.
@@kirschkern8260 just close the tabs you can't afford XD
@@kirschkern8260 CNN is no more corporate trash than Fox News though, to be sure. Any MSM is bad, and should be avoided in favor of independent media by people who are crowd-funded and wear their bias on their sleeve.
Clown News Network really says it all. They are extremely bias compared to other media.
raine Well yeah, though the worst part about all of MSM is corporate bias. Having a political bias isn't actually horrible, if you're a small media creator / group of creators whom are forthcoming political bias. I'd rather watch someone I know is of a certain political identity than someone pretending they have none. If you remove corporatism from media, all of a sudden there are fewer disincentives to be authentic.
The min browser is basically what I've been looking for forever. A very minimal and lightweight browser that has all the modern features, but doesn't clog up the top space (other than tabs and a space for entering url), tab coloring/management, basic stuff like handling userscripts, ad/track blocking, etc. I'm gonna try switching and see if I'm really missing anything from firefox. Firefox is great but there was always problems with fighting with the ui. min so far is pretty great :)
I found quebrowser years ago after the n+1st Vim-Firefox extension (vimperator, pentadactly, etc) broke. I never looked back. :-) Purposely-built for Vim-like use instead of forcing a browser to be something it was never intended to be... no-brainer. Stable, fast, super comfortable, flexible (e.g., I'm redirecting "F" = "Open in new tab" into my own document-queuing script to ease load on the machine). Give it a proper try and you'll love it.
On my system the installation size including dependencies of qutebrowser and firefox are really similar
Minimalism is not valuable in itself. Its value is in the fact that you can combine minimalist blocks in a tool of your own. For that a minimalist tool must be programmable, extensible, interoperable. Otherwise, minimalism is just a toy. This is why extensible Firefox fits the suckless philosophy better than any of the browsers you mentioned, IMHO.
Whenever I think about ultra minimalist I’m reminded of back when I regularly used DSL (Damn Small Linux) Knoppix Live discs 50mb!!!
LFS, build kernel from source
TempleOS lite 2mb.
- Doesn't like Google
- Has a RUclips channel
- Doesn't like "proprietary garbage"
- Uses Zoom because "it just works"
-Doesn't like Google
-"Let's open Google..."
Never heard of vimb defintly ging to try it out
@marv b beautiful bait, 10/10
Hey Derek, you might want to take another look at min, they have made some updates to min that you might like. the menu and now they use a current engine that is patched for security. It might be worth a look again.
Why not give Lynx a shout?
Graphics and scripting are just bloat anyway!
Why would you rather use Apple technology with WebKit than Google technology with Chromium?
Qutebrowser is not a minimal browser just because it has vim bindings. It's bigger than Firefox when you count all the QT webengine stuff.
This guy is really hard to please ✌️
As always top notch informative content. Hope your doing well during this hard time. You've inspired me to make my own content, glad to say that now I will be on the patron list! More than happy to support this fantastic content!
We need to clarify what do we mean by "minimal".
Correct me, If I'm wrong.
All those browsers are minimal in the UI sens of the word. However, a web browser is as bloated/heavy/inefficient as it's web engine (HTML, and JavaScript). Thus, all of them are considered bloated in terms of performance (i.e. size, speed, and RAM usage).
Sure, the qutebrowser is ≈ 7.5MiBs, but it depends on the Qt5 WebEngine which is ≈ 145 MiBs . On the other hand, chromium is about 184 MiBs. Now, speed wise... chromium (i.e. Blink, and V8) is the king of the hill. As for RAM, any of those browser would use more RAM than chromium for the same webpage.
A good example of a minimal web browser would be something similar to the NetSurf Web Browser. But such a minimal web browser comes at a cost. Many websites won't render properly. Especially the JavaScript heavy ones.
The guy doesn't like use google technologies.. he has fucking yt and gmail acounts, lol.
Can you use Lynx or terminal for networking functions such as nextcloud
clients,vidio conferncing such as jits,music webplayer, or other newly
evolving software development types? Are there any add on scripts? Does
lynx 2 have Graphics html function on -g ? Thankyou
I miss when Phoenix “Firefox” was just a .zip you unpacked & run! It was so small back then.
monado sir yeah but the bloat it real drastic. Just a example:
“Phoenix-0.1win32.zip” is 8.31mb
“Firefox Setup 74.0.1.exe” is 48.8mb
@@studiokadaver You are forgetting that back than PCs had much less storage in them.
Fırat Altay I didn’t forget that. I still have a house full of classic machines from the 80-90’s I’m constantly aware of older limitations
Firefox is easy to use and it works well i don't see any of these browsers being practical for most people
Very cool review 👍. Though at first I thought this will be about the software resource wise, but turned out to be UI wise. If this is the case, maybe you should check out how to hide all the unnecessary things from FF ?
Personally I don't care that much about resource, as my personal machine is good enough to chew sites and get the latest privacy updates, which might be more important.
why no one is talking about luakit ?
comparing surf to those other browsers feels very apples-to-oranges considering how minimalistic surf is. it feels like surf is a project designed to be forked off of rather than something designed to be used in its raw form
Refers to Chrome as proprietary garbage.
Chrome: "we work on anything, we're OS agnostic"
However, you're not wrong about Firefox. It's great. And you can make it work exactly the way you want a browser to work, and you can count on it patching security holes WAY faster than anything else you're looking at.
I mean, I can appreciate the wehole "Minimalist" mindset?...but Firefox works just fine for me, its not the super-fastest-lightest-thinnest-frameless etc....but for me? It "Just Works" and with the Add-Ons?...i can block pop-ups and ads, and give it a bit of a customized look. But this is what makes the open source community so great, the act that you can use what best works for YOU, and I can use what best works for ME!
Cheers!
"Chrome is garbage" ... said right after " I've never used Chrome" I don't say if it is true or not, but how can you know?!
Because Google is proprietary probably, he doesn't care if Chromes is good or not, if it's proprietary he avoids.
@@MarkHobbes He could use any chromium-based browser then ... it is open source ... but still garbage by his opinion made by not-using it ever :-D
@@giobego Which don't offer the same level of privacy that Firefox has, ever wonder why the Tor project picked firefox-esr?... over every chromium reskin in existence?
@@hugorc343 my guess? same "chromuim bad" mentality ... Could have similar absolutely useless argument - Why Brave browser led by creator of Firefox and JavaScript picked Chromium as base ?
Hi Derek,
Although I did watch a few of your videos before, I'm a new subscriber to your channel, and so far I really love it.
In this video you mentioned a custom web page (start page)...
I really liked the idea, as well as the way it looked, and I would love to have something like that myself.
I suppose it will work with any browser, right?
Like you, I use Firefox, and have never been a big fan of the worldwide spy agency called Google, and its Chrome Browser...
So, do you think you can do a video on how to create and use such a custom web page (start page)?
I mean like a comprehensive step-by-step guide...
Thanks.
I'm French and you are the only one I understand correctly. Thx for your super videos!
How about Uzbl, dillo, dwb, xombrero, midori, jumanji, qupzilla?
rolfsrolfs ...I was thinking the exact same thing. But I’m guessing that there’s a difference between minimal browsers and lightweight browsers. I don’t know 🤔, I could be wrong, but it seems like there maybe some distinguishing features that set them apart (minimal vs lightweight). I’m still trying to figure it out
Ungoogled chromium would be my first choice, but it has problems on arch+bspwm :/ Just crashes
@@dartvader316_official Wow, that actually fixed it. Never thought about this. Thanks man!
Does ungoogled chromium tile in bspwm?
@@interguy589 yes
I'm using Ungoogled Chromium for a year now, after finally quitting the abusive relationship that is Firefox. It's amazing how we lock ourselves into our own mind prisons. It's worth mentioning that UC is the only chromium I could find that also ships in AppImages in case you want that, very practical.
Before that, I have used SRWare Iron Browser (chromium based) on Windows 7 for some 8 years. And in these 8 years I think I only updated the browser once because of a disk corruption, not because it was forced on me. Or some extension stopped working, I don't remember.
I built a custom bash script to backup my chromium profile weekly, it shrinks down to a 1.5 MB TAR.XZ file
uBlock Origin is also essential (you can make a symlink to uBlock's directory, that way it doesn't add up to the size of the compressed archive)
--
My only complaint of chromium so far is how the files called "history" and "favicons" grow in size within weeks of use, and they take a lot of space from the compressed archive. That is the only issue I've been having with it.
I would be curious to know if there's a browser entirely made with only C language (not C++) Well, it would still require html and javascript to open pages, so it's possible that I'm talking nonsense without realizing.
your videos have become a kind of comfort to me during the lockdown, haha! so thanks
Death Disco keep safe mate
I started using waterfox a few weeks ago. I like it.
It's kinda strange: in the description you have note you're using Brave browser, but it's the same google-chromium based tool that you have argued against in the video
I was looking at the min source code and it doesn’t just use an older version of chromium but it also uses electron as I see it in the dependencies and also that toolbar on top looks like electron. I have used electron a little bit so I have a basic idea on what it looks like.
i think it might be their engine of choice and not suckless directly? but have you tried it lately?
Thanks a lot for the review! Unfortunately, all these browsers missing the synchronization feature. I use firefox on both laptop and android devices and I'm used to get access to my history, tabs and extensions all together at the same time.
Firefox Sync feature was the only thing still holding me to Firefox until I switched to chromium. Nowadays, I simply use a chromium AppImage (it's not installed in the system) and I make backups of the entire /home/config/chromium directory and it compresses down into a 1.5 MB Tar.Xz archive
Be DT: "You know I'm all against the bloat."
Also be DT: * uses Emacs *
E: I jest only because I
I just wanted to stick up for Chrome's Dev Tools. I'm a Firefox user as well, and I don't use Chrome for anything other than it's Dev Tools, but I felt someone needed to point out that their Dev Tools are very good. I would prefer to use Firefox Dev Tools, but Chrome's are just better for my usage.
Minimal browser == `curl`.
I totally agree that surf is not a viable option for a modern browser. But I wouldn't really say that surf is broken. Its more like the web is itself is so bloated and broken that surf struggles on those bloated sites. It works perfectly well designed sites with simple http/css and minimal js.
Hey DT i tried using the qute webbrowser after watching this video and 1 thing I noticed is that youtube video playback seems very bad... Like so many buffering... I didn't try the other 2 but just my feedback...
Can you make a video about multi-monitoring in dwm?
PS: Try Facebook on surf.
*looks at dt's surf repo*
>heavily patched build
>3 commits
me:reeeeeeee
I just tested the browser Qutebrowser and it is very interresting but I highly regret the adblocker. This is the reason why I like Min, it supports the Chrome plugins. I'll try it more. I was using Brvae but Brave is not enough lightweight for me, even if it's a great software.
I can't seam to get Vimd installed, I installed the dependencies and they were already there and the make file can not seem to find it. I'll have to try again when I regain some patience, lol
Well I gave it one last try before I gave up tonight even though my system said libwebkit2gtk-4.0 was already installed I ran "sudo apt-get install libwebkit2gtk-4.0-dev" and it installed it so I guess the dev kit is what it was looking for, then I ran the make file and it installed. Figured I would post this for anyone else having the same dilema. Oh and I'm using Ubuntu
You have a bad opinion of Chrome, i'm personally a big user of Firefox but I know that Chrome and Edge are based on Chromium who is open source and usable as is and have a set of functionallities that sometimes lacks on Firefox (I dont talk about the polemic between Google dev and chromium...)
I've been regularly in this minimal web browser path and i concluded that Firefox with privacy extensions is the go to browser (since i care about FOSS and privacy) otherwise the minimal option is Gnome-Web/Epiphany by adding another add-block list to replace the default one. All other minimal alternatives like Lynx, Vimb, Min, Midori etc. do not cover the security - privacy concerns in an effective way. Imo of course.
lynx is pretty secure, the fact that it only renders html makes it almost invulnerable to trackers, also, no ads.
@@larry1845 less than that. html supports image and video, links only text.
@@aedd3307 Yep you are right about the privacy of Lynx. I should mention on my original comment that i concluded to Firefox & Epiphany having in mind also the ease of use and the browser's capabilities in nowadays modern web.
Zen mode + vimium in Firefox is my daily go
Suckless problem is their subjective definition of simple isn’t simple to many people. You can make a bloated Ram sucking program in a couple lines of code. Many times more code makes for better performance
What is the point of minimal software if it's still slow ie the surf browser?
1:54 i am waiting for the time in this video when DT would mention that he reviewed lynx browser 3 years ago (this video is 2 years ago from now). Does he mention that in this video?
17:00 he has NOT mentioned his own exploration with lynx till now even. WHY?
I really liked the minimal, personalized start page you were using with surf. Is that a local html page on your machine, some kind of web service or a feature of the surf browser?
I just recently realized that Mozillia Firefox uses a lot of your computer's RAM/CPU which is why it sometimes runs slow.
I will never understand the people that use Firefox... It's just... It's not good. And I'd take Chrome over Firefox anyday.
can anyone see the statue of budha?
I wanted to create a chromium browser. But I am not a programmer much of an artist instead. So I made a prototype for the front end but I need programmers to recreate the same UI and animations in CSS to work. The UI idea I have designed is really either eye candy and minimalistic at the same time. Does anyone wanna help out ?
lmao @ pinned comment
webkit is not chrome, chrome uses Blink, which is built ON TOP of webkit...
Why you gotta call chrome proprietary garbage, like googles contribution to the FOSS chromium doesn't exist or something
No AdBlock means it's not a functional browser. And since all of these don't block ads, they're all inferior to Firefox
1:02 Thank you for that. I use the garbage called google chrome
then stop, there are so many better options. At least something like ungoogled chromium
@@AtomToast I don't see any reason to. I'm not running from the police or the government.
Also some concerns
1) what about security , those browsers are really new while Firefox and Chrome are old they spend enormous amount of efforts in order to protect their users
2) Extensions , quete browser doesn't have adblocker and as far as I remember it doesn't support extensions at all
Chrome might be secure but users sacrifice their privacy. It is also very resource heavy.
@@SimonWoodburyForget Chrome is bloated as well. There is only few browsers that are truly minimal on resources and functional.
@@SimonWoodburyForget Yes some distros are bloated. That's why I recommend Debian or Arch. Anything that provides you with just working system and ability to install software you just really need.
@@SimonWoodburyForget How is arch and debian more bloated than chrome? Distros are running on linux kernel. Dude do you even know what you are talking about?
@@SimonWoodburyForget Chrome is simple piece of software? Let me correct you right there. Browsers are very complex piece of software.
Development of a browser is also thousands hours of work. Browsers are not even maintained by single developer, they have a development team. If browsers were really that simple and easy to develop we would have more options available.
Chrome is running at around 100MB ram at idle, which sooner or later increases with extensions, cache, and etc. It can be a whooping 300MB ram idle. Plain Arch linux with tilling manager is running idle at 150MB ram.
Fresh install of chrome uses 2/3 ram of what Arch linux with tilling manager is using. Clearly we can see what really is more bloated if your logic is Chrome being simple piece of software and Arch/Debian being very complex.
Thank you.
I contradict myself because I would like a minimal, non-bloated browser the Linux way. That is adding whatever layer I would want as if it where plugins.
Undoing our browsers history that had evolved from a commercial point of view. But keeping all the good things as FFX, but without being bloated... Why having things that already has our OS?
I say I contradict because I do not know how to do this, just by piping some already tested command to load Epiphany. And not loosing any feature of a modern browser.
I mean the Linux way, because if would probably only work on Linux. But could be done with the help of all our community that know how to make their own version of any plugin.
gets a threadripper... goes minimal...
02:26 he needs those cores to run two clocks simultaneously =)
İ m find mini browser for 1ghz cpu 2 gb ram wise pc support browser.slax os linux ...thanks sharing..
This guy says he wants minimalist but looks like everything is more complicated unnecessarily. No offense.
i dont know if this is just a problem for me but in any of the browsers that use webkit, youtube says my browsers cant play or that my browser isint supported. anyone know a fix for this?
3:34 ... Please stop saying it takes a long time. RUclips takes even longer to load for me when it isn't cached because my internet access is so slow. :
I like qutebrowser but the problem with me is, qute doesn't open my jupyter notebook and just give my white screen when open.
Holy shit. Surf is slow xD.
I'm using Min right now. While it's a good browser for the most part, it's really annoying how the built-in adblocker doesn't block RUclips ads even on the strictest setting. Even Qutebrowser managed to block those ads sometimes.
i've been using Min browser for its Tasks function
a workaround i do is opening the video in a new tab. it stops ads from autoplaying but does it takes a bit more time
ads on the youtube homepage aren't blocked by the browser but i can live with it
In Computer Science memory footprint and CPU footprint are opposite, so you can't search a minimal browser who's fast, actual browser are fast because theyre heavy af
Well this comment will be 5 months late but about min: it is built on electron and it is a bloatware because of electron. But if you want to use it without menu you can hide it or remove it completely.
the problem is not the browser, but overbloated pages with javascript. You visit a page, and ten windows open up
Yeh but youtube I class as bloat which makes your browser less minimal, browsers and the web are simbiotic in the sense
imo browsers should use as much ram as possible
i dont get how people want their browser to not cache their loaded pages , or to compress the cached pages to save on ram usage.
I love it. I agree that firefox is bloated. I remember switching to Netscape back in the days of IE 4.0 because the IE 4.0 was bloated compared to 3.0, then 4.0 came built in to 98, I liked that the file browser and web browser was so integrated. I remember switching between Netscape and IE bscause I also had a Mac that had Netscape. Then it was Firefox, I really loved the Konquerer browser in K desktop. Like you I don't like bloat and so I have always ran rather trim OS's.. even on my very powerful and beautiful XPS 13 developer's edition I am running lean and mean. Absolutely beautiful, but very lean. I am so picky a swapfile is bloat in my eyes. Invest properly in to hardware, you won't need one anyway. That's just me.
off-topic question (feel free to not answer) why do you shave your moustache in the middle?
I'm actually quite fond of Microsoft Edge. Oh, and that wasn't sarcasm.
I have mainly been playing around with qutebrowser and surf next to firefox but honestly vimb looks very interesting and it's curious that I never heart about it. Seems to combine a lot of the qualities of qutebrowser and surf and be a decent middleground. I especially like that it's written in c compared to qutebrowser which is written in python
I am guessing this guy doesn't know the camera is to his upper right. Is this like B roll only?
qute browser is not very minimal it doesn't even work in Windows 7!! It says Windows 8+
I know this has probably been asked and answered but I can't find it in the comments and I'm new to this channel. What DE is he using? I3 or awesome?
I think dwm.
firefox is almost as bad as minimal browsers. just use vivaldi bc it doesn't suck.
you want to move fast inside a browser, it's possibly more interesting to learn the key bindings instead
vimb google looks way more beautiful than chrome google..... that's weird