What Happened To Ring Wing Planes?
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2023
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Hey mate. Great video once again 👍. Just out of curiosity though, I'm wondering if you went to the Avalon Airshow at the beginning of March haha, considering you're an Aussie too. Or don't you live Victoria? If you did though, how was it?
Hi Nic, have you consider doing video about Heinkel Lerche?
So I watch an ad, to watch a video, 1 minute in I get an embedded ad asking me to buy merch, 4 minutes in I get a RUclips ad, the ad ends, and the video presents another embedded ad, this time for a beauty scam. Seriously, so trashy, this is more ads than TV!!!!! Unsubscribing, stop being a greedy pos.
Don't tell Gulf about it. Lol
yes boxwing video please
As difficult as powered heavier-than-air flight was to first achieve in human history, it sure seems like there are a ridiculously wide array of designs that can work.
Yeah once you've got the basic idea of an airfoil and centers of lift and mass hammered out the rest is pretty flexible.
Of course it's still a big leap from something flying and something flying _well._
Yup. The hard problem at the time wasn't so much wings as engines.
The problem was not wing design, the problem was an engine that was powerful enough while also being light enough
It was the engines that were the problem. We had airplane-like gliders in the civil war, and soldiers would use them to spy on the enemy. They had to be sent up like a kite and wouldn't stay airborne for long though
Especially home-built RC planes! I thought you needed a PhD in engineering and access to a wind tunnel to design a plane that stays in the air, but it turns out that even people with "I think I saw that somewhere" knowledge of an airfoil can glue some styrofoam together and make it fly.
Can you imagine an alternate timeline where this is how planes developed? It'd be wild
Coital.
That would require an alternate aerodynamics and in that sense, physics
can imagine an alternative timeline where engineers deliberately make bad decisions over and over again.
@@JohnFrumFromAmericaThey already do.
@@JohnFrumFromAmerica Sound familiar 🤨
My engineering teacher in highschool had us all make paper airplanes to see which ones would glide the furthest. Nobody really made anything too out of the ordinary, but the teacher made a ring wing plane from a straw, a piece of paper, and tape. It flew further than any other design and it blew my teenage mind.
Actually the best paper airplane design is this: Build a regular paper airplane, then make another one, but stop right before you fold it in half. Then slot that piece onto the top of the first paper airplane, taping them together under the wings. The overall shape is the same, but now you have a wing that opens like a pocket from the back. This creates a really smooth and long range glider, and there's multiple reasons why it performs better. Firstly, air gets pushed in from the front, inflating the wing, creating an area of high pressure, generating lift, while at the same time, also getting even more pressure from the default wing, even though it all behaves as one wing. So it essentially multiplies the high pressure surface area, without increasing the low pressure surface area, which generates more lift. It also fly's very smooth and stable. In a way it's like a ring wing meshed with a traditional wing, giving you the benefits of both with none of the drawbacks.
I am afraid that he was a communist.
😮😂❤😊
Whoever makes the models you use in your videos needs to upload them to MSFS 2020...the texture and detail is so insane
Someone would need to add the whole cockpit though right? That would be cool though!
It’s a Russian called Tim
Or we can ride a train and crash into a wall up to you
@@Dragon-Slay3r look again
@@TinyBearTim how many times is one a wassilmoiuhgjftyhrewdsalmjnhugfdsaewdsalmnjuhuhgfdsawetyhfdsalmnbhuythffrwedsalmnhugythrewasdsahftyhgdsalmnuihbnjhuewlmnjui bhui lomjuiolmniuhyjghresdawerdsalhunhythressdskfjghsakhhfjhyyhrewerdsalnmouhjgfdsaeryhtfdsalmnouhuiythfdsalmniuihjgftyhjnomnunouihsawasaanhuilmnjuiohjgfdsaknmouihugftyhrewedsslmnuiohnouiolmnjuiolmnjuihythfdsawrythfdswerdsaknjjimnouioplmnjuihftirwsseryhfdsalnhuighfdsalmnjuiolmnuiohjiuiolmnjiokhjfdsawertyhfdsalmnhuythrewedsalnmouhgdsalnmoui yh w
A yes.. the worst of both worlds.
Both the downside of having a very long wing, combined with the downside of having two wings on top of each other.
On top of that, the high pressure area on one part is the low pressure on the other part. So its almost like having a anti winglet, that guides air from the high pressure to the low pressure side.
Will it fly, absolutely. But it will suck down fuel as if there is no tomorrow.
Like my engineering teacher used to say: _"With the right engine even a tram will fly"_
Actually I think it will have varied cross sections, so the low pressure zone will always be the “top” side of the wing generate lift. Still the sides are not doing anything…
@@AaronShenghao is it viable to put rudders on that sections?
@@AaronShenghao Well on the same side of the surface, what is top and bottom is really perspective.
But it gets worse. There is just a infinitly shot bit of the wing that is vertical. Just next to it is parts that is have a horizontal component to them, hence generate lift. If they generate lift, they have a low pressure. So this put the low pressure of the lower wing just next to the high pressure of the upper wing. Guiding the pressure to collapse, and that is also true the other way around.
So this is actually worse than if you had two semi circular wing and a gap between them
@@deptusmechanikus7362 yea... that would work, but it might have control issues
* the maintenance team needs to have an Ironman suit to get to the engine
* it is impossible to have fuel tanks in the wings
* flaps - a nightmare for an engineer
* ice, snow, or water on the wings will lift the center of mass
this list can go on forever
Your right
You have too so you can show the "engineers whom design this um plane the problem they going to encounter."
As I was watching, I too was trying to figure out how exactly the flaps are supposed to work. Like, even on working examples like that crop duster, it's more of a flat ellipse, where there's sufficient surface area to have working flaps, essentially like a biplane but it's two wings are connected with a curved wing section. This would have to have some kind of German space magic to even have a chance of having working flaps.
Please do
Why can’t you have fuel tanks in these wings?
*I built ring wing paper airplanes as a kid. They seemed to fly forever and were not bothered by windy days!*
well, how did you make them / fold them? why don't you make a video or two making those paper planes and post them on youtube?
@@loendsti *Actually from 1977 to 1983 MacDonalds offered a ring-wing plane for the "BOYS-TOY" in their happy meals. They gave away millions and was a favorite toy for collectors. The cheap stamped foam did not last long, sadly. The real trick was to put a bigger ring inside the main wing. This gave it 80% more structural strength and 68% more lift. Think of it as a Bi-Plane wing. When we did this mod those toys lasted a real LONG time.*
@@johnslugger oh, well, that's one way to get ppl into science. clever move.
@@loendsti *Heck with that, I'm going for the Nobel Prize!*
@@johnslugger good luck
I *love* making ring-wing paper planes!
They're *super-stable* and you get really good flying distances from them!
Bleriot = Blair-eeo. Voison = Vwow-sson. Bleriot was one of the greatest aviation pioneers, he made the first Cross English Channel flight in 1909.
I guess it's standard (or a gimmick) on this channel that he always butchers the pronunciation... 😕
Seriously. How hard is it to look up the pronunciation of one of the most famous aviation pioneers before you butcher it?
@@matthewstephenson1664 I know, it's so annoying. It's like he has no interest in aviation and is just brought in to do the voice overs. About to give up watching this channel.
Bad pronunciation is inexcusable in the age of the internet.
I came here to say this I haven't even gotten to the second name yet. If somebody hasn't heard a lot of French names that might be harder to pronounce. Simon Whistler does the same thing he says he just doesn't care when he mispronounces a word here and there. It just makes me feel old but cultured to know how all of the words are pronounced...
I did not know these sycophantic plane makers exist
U mean psychopathic?
@@toruscharge984 blame autocorrect
Have you ever heard of the X-plane program? 😂
@mar joseph 23
If you know what happened, why don't you edit it?
But besides the typo, do you actually know what "psychopathic" means? Because, I can't see how it would apply here.
@@toruscharge984
...and it still wouldn't make sense.
What's "psychopathic" about designs as such?
I love this design more than words can describe. But you can't just build a different plane for the sake of being different - there has to be a massive advantage to an innovative design to make the risks of trying to market such a thing worth the reward.
Some of the most fascinating videos of any RUclips channel. I love big engines, but I am not a huge air travel person, but some of the almost and what ifs are fantastic. Keep up the great work!!
When I was a kid I used to make "paper airplanes" that used this concept using only two strips of a paper and a straw. If you cut two strips of paper, both an inch wide but one 4" long while the other is 6" long, then you tape both strips into a circle and attached them to the ends of the straw such that the attachment point of both strips is on the same side of the straw, then throw the "strawplane" with the smaller loop in front, it actually will fly pretty far.
I can easily see this design being potentially useful for like, low powered simplistic drones of some kind, not the loud whiny buzzy quadcopters but more like a serene, graceful device. Especially combined with a bladeless fan design this could be quite the smooth and safe rider. Much of our aircraft design comes from military roots, I always wonder what the state of technology would be like if WWI was averted and we kept that hopelessly optimistic, dieselpunk outlook on the future that people had in the early naughts
I made one too; using only a sheet of paper , it flew quite well
I'm pretty sure the world record paper plane, is incredibly basic and only has a couple folds. It looks cool, but it doesn't mean it's the best design.
I did, too! Way back in elementary school. Ours only needed a single sheet of paper.
@@NLynchOEcakeat that point why not make the ring wing an engine in itself? Doesn’t have to be complicated. It could work like one of those bladeless fans that are more expensive and act as “humidifiers.”
Lockheed Martin more like Lockheed Martian
Comment of the year right here ^^^
Hahaha
Heehee yX-D! 🏆🥇😉
😏
🤣🤣
Absolutely would love to see a video on the boxwing jets, as well as the Boeing Spanloader--a flying wing cargo plane!
I always love old concept vehicles that look like something you'd think was from science fiction.
That part about unexplainable real UFOs being an ad for a facial wellness tool caught me really off-guard lol
Holly Sheep Shyte! The Vulcans are here... And they're designing planes. 😱
what? The Box-Wing design looks like the Romulan Warbird
@@rgerber Well then Jolan Tru to You too... I guess.
What seems strange to me, is how high it is made in a true circle. The other examples of both ring and box wing are way more elliptical. You'd think the vertical parts of the ring wing are useless for lift. Given that the aircraft body takes part of the actual lifting flat section, it seems to me like there is more wing not useful for lift than useful, and it increases the tail stabilisers size if attached like this as well.
I agree. I don’t think a circle is the best shape to use. It has too much vertical wing area that, as far as I can tell, does nothing but add to the parasitic drag.
The People that claim that this would be more energy-efficient, those People clearly have NO knowledge about how aviation works.
Beside from CGI, this will never wortk, unless you have a different Plan to counter the Gravitational Effect on the "Plane".
The Box-Wings and the Ellyptical Wings got more horizontal wingspan than Vertical and the Box-Version got that connection, to improve stability.
@SoHBetaSword I mean, if you had the hand of god to throw it hard enough so the minimal lifting surfaces acted in overdrive...
Though I don't know how feasible "god throws the plane" is as a business model
I thought it would be obvious to most people that the lack of horizontal wing surface would'nt get this thing off the ground.
@@jerseymetalmike5111 it offends my intuition to how planes work, which is "redirecting air particles downwards to cause an upwards force to act on the plane"
which only works with horizontal surfaces, of which this plane lacks
From an engineering perspective it looks challenging. Engine maintenance adds risk, replacing an engine requires special cranes. A circular wing can also flex causing instability. Production or transportation of a ringwing is hard (mildly spoken). No elevator or canard means it’s harder to pitch. Plus it’s going to be a sailboat on crosswind landings. If the ring wing doubles as a fuel tank it’s going to roll over having a CoM that high. My 2cts based on 2min of thinking about it… does look cool though 😊
My question is: other than using the rudder, how do you turn? How do you counter a windshear? How do you lift or dive the nose, and how do you guarantee that it doesn't roll?
How do you manage windshear?
A guy built a ring wing ultralight and displayed it at the Oshkosh air show in the ultralight section many years ago. I always wonder if he continued developing it?
Have you seen any around in the shops, they are so popular he sold out because there are more than guns in the USA , the answer to your wonder is I dont think he developed it as the alternate reality aforementioned would exist instead of the one we are in.
@@davidrobertson5700 I just had a stroke reading that
@@davidrobertson5700 wat.....
@@anthonylombardi4168 no
@@fennectempest1590 ok
I remember when I was about 10 I had a book called aircraft 2000 for Christmas and it was full of planes like this when the year 2000 came around I was disappointed that there were no planes like the planes in the book
I was gifted a book around the same age called "Mars 2020". They probably could have added another decade or two to the title
And we never did all start wearing silver jumpsuits after the year 2000 either, or drive flying cars :)
Looking at predictions of the future in the past is quite interesting, and it is often quite surprising how accurate they were.
In elementary school in the 70s I used to make ring shaped paper planes. They flew better and further than any normal paper airplane the others made.
Looking forward to the box wing design video, hope it's nice and long. They seem like a possible future design shift.
"The Nazis didn't invent this one"
Me: oh thank god...
"It was the French"
Me: *(HISSING IN BRITISH)*
That flatbed plane looks super aero, like a great drag coefficient ya know.😂
Might be an idea to make a dual ring wing. The forward ring placement and degree of it might compliment the ring wing behind.
This is so cool! Definitely want to see a video on the box wing design!!
Requesting videos on the following:
-switchblade aircraft designs such as the FA-37 Talon from the ‘05 movie “Stealth” or the X-02 Wyvern from the Ace Combat franchise (the concept, not the actual fighters I mentioned)
-Super Tomcat-21 and ASF-14
-the NATF program as a whole
-early ATF proposals
-Sea Apache
-F-20 Tigershark
-Bae SABA
-Lockheed Martin’s Advanced Technology Bomber proposal
-Northrop’s proposal for what would become the F-117 Nighthawk
-Interstate TDR
-JSF proposals OTHER THAN the X-32 and X-35
Cool
This is where the fun begins 👌
'Oćeš i muzičku želju?
This is SO interesting! When I was a kid in the early 1990s an aerospace engineer visited our school to talk about his job. At one point he asked if we believed he could make a paper airplane with "no wings." He proceeded to make a ring-wing paper airplane and throw it across the gymnasium. It went further than any paper airplane I ever saw. He claimed at the time it would likely be the "future of aviation." Fascinating to me that he would say that given that according to this video the idea was mostly abandoned by that time. I learned how to make the ring-wing paper airplane and used it as a parlor trick to amuse people for years.
-"The aircraft you see on screen is different in one, very big way."
"Wait, it is??? Tell me how!"
You really think I wouldn’t have to but then if your average intelligence that means 50% of people are dumber than you 😂
When I was a kid I built several toy foam gliders with a trapezoidal connected "box wing" connecting to the top of the vertical tail similar to this ring wing. That sucker flew really well too.
bro imagine having your window blocked by the wing🗿
😅🥹
I never knew about this plane, thanks for making this! Even though it may have proved impractical in the end, I think it´s a really beautiful design.
I think you misspoke a bit at 4:48 though - watching the specs you show a little bit later, it´s not the wing circumference that is 7.4m - that´s the diameter of the fuselage. The diameter of the wing is 20.11m.
I’ve seen these things a lot in many sci fi universes, mainly because they are using the Alcubierre type warp drive design.
It's a nice idea in a couple ways, the ring shape having a lot of structural strength and it gets rid of the wingtip vortices. It's all those little gotchas that change it from a nice idea in principle to a poor idea in practice.
"it gets rid of the wingtip vortices."
That's a fallacy. Wing tips are not the only place where induced drag is generated. Plus, a ring wing is basically a double decker. There's a reason we have stopped making these. the high pressure zone of the top wing connects directly to the low pressure zone of the lower one. This alone should make it clear that ring wings are not better regarding induced drag.
This is a dumb idea. How the hell can you see the view when the ring block the windows?
Yeah, this plane is cool, and the ring wing is unique. But the lift couldn't occur on the vertical part of the wings. Also, what speed would this plane fly at? Probably only 350 mph (550 km/h), as one could only imagine the structural strain of flying faster with sonic compression at higher Mach numbers. There is a reason why airplanes use a swept back wing design when going 500 mph (800 km/h). Hopefully my explanation is good. :)
It's easy to make your ring-wing out of paper they fly pretty good compared to other paper airplanes
@Wright Marshall - They do! I've made many of those - they're great!
These are so disticinive & interesting it would be kind of incredible to see these be rebuild or developed again :)
Man there is 3 min of content in this 10 min video
Yes, I would like to hear you talk about the box wing plane. Or anything thing really, you just have a smooth calming voice, you can talk about anything and I wouldn’t mind listening to it.
Reckon I’ll stick with the Ryobi orbital sander for my facial skin care needs. A bit of 40 grit paper does wonders for small blemishes.
😂😂😂😂😂
No kidding I use a palm sander on my feet, only way to go! 🤗
Maintenance on those engines is a no go. The industry turned away from above the cabin body engines long ago because it makes maintenance, repair and inspection problematic.
What happened to ring wing planes: Their designer started kindergarten.
Can you make a video about the Avro Vulcan? Please i wanna learn more about it
I can imagine that a ring wing aircraft like this would be very vulnerable to crosswinds as well. We certainly seem to be going through another period of innovation in aircraft design. Have you done a video on Blended Wing Body aircraft yet?
I have been into aviation since the early 80’s, especially reading a lot about concept aircraft. I have never heard of this at all
I really like the posters, and I don't know if you have considered making displates with the designs, but I think they would look great
subbed to this channel purely because I love hearing you destroy the pronounciation of literally every name you try. Keep up the good work Fond und expleened - god bless you.
I do my best
@@FoundAndExplained if that's the only complaint, that speaks well of your work
This looks more like a light speed aircraft then a plane
London to Sydney in 60 milliseconds, I'm down!
I think the downfall of this design is the existing hanger infrastructure won’t support it.
What Happened To Ring Wing Planes?
I believe the design was adopted by the Vulcans in the 22nd century as a number of their ships possessed this design. =D
The circumference is 7.4 meters, (4:50) but the hight is 23 meters? (5:06) I believe the 7.4 meters close to the radius (center point to the edge of a circle) and the diameter is close to 20 meters (edge-center-edge). (Circumference is one point on edge, around the circle back to same point.)
I have asked this many times, but please one day go into who and how your visuals are done. This channel has some of the best rendered airplanes ever
Wow!!!! How does that thing even get lift and fly. To me, it would be scary just to look at that plane and then to get on one as a passenger.
Thanks for the video, take care.
I remember using this design to make a plane for school. You had to make a small plane to travel a long distance (and it couldn’t just be made out of paper). I was able to win
Even if you do want a closed wing, you want it to be wider than it is tall
Excellent stuff bro
I could see that thing starting to spin like a giant flying drill bit!
My thought too.
Naaaaw who gave lockheed employees LSD
Probably the CIA
these animation keeps getting more realistic
lockheed was one of the most creative airline ever
>The aircraft you see on screen is different in one big way
No....
>The wings... are Round.
Dear God.
Were they destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom?
They 911 it to Mount Doom
@@JohnJohn-yl4ko "The Two Towers"
This absolutely does look like it’s Ai generated. It looks great-
That's a really cool design, thanks for bringing it to our attention! I'm disappointed how little information the video has in relation to it's length, though.
The Vulcans were just trolling us.
Yeah, do a video on the box wing!
Coming soon!
"Increased parasitic drag" probably just means increased surface area that doesn't contribute to lift.
That's easily visualized by the enormous amount of the "circle" that isn't close to horizontal.
That's also why some variants are shaped more like a squashed oval instead of perfectly circular.
Seems to me there's an optimum shape that is worth experimenting somewhere in determining an optimal curve of the circular wing.
love when the video actually starts 5 minutes in
Can you imagine how loud it would have been for passengers near the engines? This thing looks like a nightmare to maintain as well.
I remember making a ring "football" airplane. It was more weighted on one side of the circumference which made it fly pretty far
I have never seen a more crazy idea with wings! 😂
Thanks for making this video, and that facial device is so cool
Imagine booking a window seat and the view is bloked by the wing
Ive seen people flying model jet versions of something really similar to this, wasnt a passenger jet, it was more of a fighter jet
4:40 to get to the part where he might start talking about the plane on the thumbnail. 👏
Lift is created by the difference between air pressure (related to its speed across the wing surface) between the air just above and just below the wing surface. Bernoulli's principle. A round wing could only create useable lift at the top and bottom of the circle and would be a massive amount of drag without any useable lift at the 3 and 9 O'clock positions. In other words, NO WORKEE.
1:28 yep, totally nailed those
6:50 yes wanna see that!!! AMAZING video as usual!!!!
how does it get altitude? I can't see any type of elevator control surface
I wonder how could the planning be in case of both engines fail compare to an aircraft today!?
Found and Explained, if by "Explained" you mean "Almost no information at all, stretched out to fill ten minutes."
Damn, one of the most stunning looking video yet, amazing content, keep it up.
Who makes your aircraft models
they're great
have you heard of the Snecma C-450 Coléoptère ? It was a proposed VTOL figher with a ring wing, needless to say, a marvellous machine in itself, if I recall corectly, Mutsard made a video on it a while ago.
Sorry I put the comment in the early beginning of the video, being proud of such a great design from my own country
Back in 1989-90 we had a gentleman from I believe NASA come talk to our school and he was talking about these planes. He then taught us how to make a paper airplane similar to these but it was just the wing mainly and didn’t have the long fuselage. I wish I could remember more of that assembly.
I think it was Pilatus, the same Swiss company that made the STOL Porter that was trying to use a ring wing on a flying car so basically one lane in diameter.
I could see this making a come back someday. There will be a second revolution in folding wings or otherwise variable geometry. Just waiting on the chemistry and metallurgy to get there. If you need an example. Look at how popular the folding phones are again. Give it another couple decades and much larger more complex equipment will be able to seamlessly articulate. Then suddenly we will be able to choose much more efficient configurations for different regimes.
I would like to see the box wing concept idea, I wonder if it would be more practical?
I'm pretty sure you missed a step I fairly sure there was an Italian ring wing design from the early 20's
Bit of a tangent, but an animated movie from the "Cowboy Bebop" franchise has some cool delta/ boxed wing style military fighters for Mars. Again, hardly related, but the renders for the military tanker reminded me. Thank you for another wonderful video.
I can already tell the lift vector will be pointed in all different directions so I guess it wouldn’t work as we would want vertical / horizontal lift most at specific phases of flight, instead of the lift being in all directions?
Wonder if this concept was the origin of Vulcan starship designs in Start Trek? For those not in the know, Vulcan starships' warp engine nacelles are ring-shaped and the ship's hulls tend to be long and needle shaped.
Love the design and concept, but it needs more control suffuses like a Vtail and Conards.
Great video, please can we have a video about the box wing as well please?
And how can efficiency be one of its advantages ...
when inefficiency is one of its drawbacks?
These are the kind of visually striking designs I wish to see more in sci fi
How does that design work if the engines fail?
But if the extra weight of the wing is less than the extra lift it produces, it could still be good for cargo planes when you don’t need to go fast (drag) and the reduced side to side wing area would allow for landing in more secluded places. It might work well as a cargo bush plane basically
Although the reduced speed would mean less max lift I think but I’m ignoring that