The parenthetical save was not super intuitive to me (and neither were some of the abbreviations). Once you said it, it made sense, but I would make sure there's a good walkthrough of stat blocks in the book for new players.
@@Brandon-zw3hw Same here. A little subtitle would do the trick i think. Something like "Attributes (Saves)" in a similar font like the "Medium Beast..."
I've said this also. They have plenty of room to just put (Save x) if the few places where the save is different from the modifier. 3 (4) looks like it becomes 4 in some situations. Easy enough to just say "3 (Save: 4)" in the few cases where it is different. You have no shortage of space, even in the odd case where all the saves were different.
Agreed! I'm trying to run The Hunted one shot, but the stat blocks are confusing. They don't look like this... Does anyone know of a FAQ or a video where he addresses this? The rest of the module runs pretty smoothly, just not the combat because of these janky stat blocks, haha!
I love the 'Lurker' thing! It's a descriptor of the fiction and, in the case where you give your PCs some narrative control over how they dodged a monsters attack and then attacked back, then this 'lurker' descriptor would help them better envision what type of actions this monster would take that their PC would defend or dodge or parry. Anything that allows a player to better envision how that monster is moving, dodging, hopping around, feinting, attacking, defending, disappearing, running away, and anything else is a big improvement to me. As someone with a lot of anxiety and ADHD that constantly has me mentally checking out to the point I regularly forget what my character looks like in the moment, this is a much needed thing for me. You could even have a wolf pack made of a 3 lurkers, 2 rushers, 2 strikers, and 2 leaders who guide the others and 1 of them leads the offense and 1 leads the defense. This would actually help me envision this a lot better, even though they're all the same visual wolves. It helps me stay in the game a lot more. This is a little bit that I'm developing in my own game where even classes aren't based on themes, but more on play style, like these types of descriptors. I will say, the reason this works for me is because I find I need mechanical interactivity to even be able to be immersed and actually play. If I didn't have any kind of interactivity with a system, I just tune out the whole thing, even though I love role playing. And the mechanical interactivity actually fuels the role playing, because 'this is how my character smites' or 'this is how my sorcerer pulls on their lineage to blast their enemies with lightning'. I can see this monster descriptor being able to help align the GM's vision for this monster and maybe a PC can identify this descriptor and understand that this monster 'acts this way, so stay sharp everyone'. I'm really enjoying watching all of this happening and developing! Can't wait to find people to play this game with.
Monster "archetypes" are straight outta DND4e and I'm HERE for it. I loved 4e and I love seeing so many bits and pieces of it come back across pf2e mcdm dc20 and even daggerheart. Love it!!!!
Yesterday I've DMed The Hunted for two friends for the first time. One of them plays DnD 5e , the other plays Vampire and Tormenta. It was so easy tho get everything going. In less than 30 minutes we´re playing. We just loved it. Grat work, Coach!
I like most of this. Pretty straight forward. I'm a little concerned that 1st timers might not understand what the parentheses next to the modifiers are but maybe if you had a little section in the book to explain like this video it'd be ok
@@ethanjensen6847 that was my thinking as well I was just hoping it'd be a little clearer in the actual stat block. The rest is pretty easy to understand at a glance; HP, PD, MD, Actions, Features etc etc. But unless it was explained elsewhere you'd have no idea why there's another number in parentheses next to the score
@8:40 - "It costs one action point" : OK, that was not my first assumption, though part of that is because of how you're doing the presentation, revealing a little bit at a time rather than looking at the entire stat block. My first thought was, "This is the 1st option for it to take." Or, "Action #1". This is reinforced by the next item (Tear Apart) being prefixed by "(2)" - "Action #2". So actions are #1 and #2, but using parens. Nothing in there implies that that means "Action points". If I were writing it, I'd use something like: *Bite or Claw (1 AP):* Melee, 1 Piercing or Slashing *Tear Apart (2 AP):* ~~description~~
AP is a main feature of the game. Numbering actions as Action #1 Action #2 doesn’t seem useful to anyone. Stating how Many Action points it cost is a necessity, it’s the main combat resource. It’s not unreasonable to assume that GM’s running the system should be aware of the main combat resource. If it were absent what would you think the AP cost is?
Looks great, DC. I don't like including the +5/+10 numbers, because adding 5 and 10 is easy, but I guess I wouldn't remove them unless there was something else you could use that real estate for (like making the font bigger). As an aging gamer with old eyes, I encourage increasing font size and using high contrast whenever possible.
Will the shove action be revised? Currently, the shove action is stronger than the Prone maneuver because it can knock a creature prone with only one AP.
I had this same concern until it was pointed out to me that the prone maneuver is based off your prime Modifier, so the shove action is really only better for Might based characters. Everyone else wants the prone maneuver
the shove action is mostly stronger as a reward for investing in Might. But the Prone maneuver does have upsides, mainly that you can use stamina for it(so it can potentially cost no AP) and that you can use it at range
I played my first session of DC20 this weekend and used the statblocks right from the get go. It was super easy and nice. Critique on the Handbook: The Steps of the Character Creation is a bit of. I think bringing Ancestry and Class up front would fix a lot. Ps: Even if We used the action point system wrongly it was a blast playing that game.
@4:50 - Agi: 3 (4) : Bonus when hidden? (It's a Lurker.) Benefit when with a pack? (Pack Tactics is a memorable feature in 5E.) Bonus on the first round of combat? Bonus when injured? (Bonuses when below half health are not uncommon in older D&D and video games.) The difference between actions and saves? (Analogous to having proficiency with a save in 5E.) And yes, that is literally the order of ideas I came up with when trying to answer the question of what I thought it meant. Answer: The value in parentheses is for the save on that stat. Not immediately obvious, though understandable once explained. Which is fine in a video talking about the stat block where you're going over each detail, but... I looked at the PDF of the Monster Starter Pack, and could not find any explanation of what that was supposed to mean. So I'd consider this to be very unintuitive to any new player/GM.
This is my exact same thought. I looked at that (and in the PDF) and was wondering what the hell they meant. The 'by-five' notations ono the defensive stats were also an issue. I knew that each five increased the damage (the 'by 5') rule, but I had not put that with the number shown (mostly because I didn't look at the math of it when glancing at the stat block, and because that is not something I really need (or want) spelled out on the stat block. It just adds clutter IMO.
So happy to see this style of monsters will be the standard for DC20. It was one of my favorite things about 4th edition and I'm excited to see the TDC and team's spin on it.
Just the fact you brought in Bob gives me a lot of excitement for your implementation! He and you have awesome insights into effective statblocks with minimal fluff words.
When I ran the hunted I will say that the parentheses threw me off at first, took like the 2nd or 3rd round of combat for me to realize it was the save. It works but can be confusing at first. Maybe add saves under skills to show what the parentheses
I've mentioned this in the discord - I don’t think the features section is needed. Explain the senses in the senses section and the attacks in the action section. Possibly have an attack enhancement type for heavy hits. If there’s a features section, you need to check it whenever you interact with the stat block to make sure you're not missing anything. The block has good principles that I think should be taken further.
CR system in DnD does work, as CR N monster is a normal difficulty fight against a LV N 3-5 ppl party, but it's super unintuitive and unclear for new DMs. But make sure to implement rules on scaling (ha) for dragons and other solo-ish bosses.
Speaking to the bite/claw thing, I love the idea of a monster dealing slashing on a normal hit BUT on a heavier hit it sinks its fangs/claws into the target and deals piercing instead. Conversely, you could have it sink in and do piercing normally, but rip and tear on a heavier hit with slashing. Beautiful bit of flavour there.
I think it looks very clean overall! I will say, to echo some of the other comments, I had no idea what the 4 in parenthesis meant intuitively. I actually paused the video there and thought about it. My best guess was "3 or 4 if you want a stronger wolf" (which I know is a dumb guess lol). Edit: I will say, I don't really know how you could make that one thing more intuitive. I suppose you could add in a column next to the stats but then it would probably clutter the cleanliness of it. I think it's fine to have just one element of the stat block that's slightly non-intuitive.
I really like this. Like many people here who are backers of this project I really enjoy the updates and being part of the process. If you could please dial down the energy a tiny bit it may make your videos a bit more enjoyable to watch. In general I turn your videos down to 75% speed so I don't have to take a Xanex to watch them. Feel free to ignore this critique.
I ran a one-shot 2 days ago and didn't know what the parenthesis meant on a monster from the Hunted one-shot. I just made up what it did, and used it probably incorrectly. It'd be easy to just put whatever's in parenthesis with a small "save" word above or below it. Other than that, it's relatively simple to use the monster stat blocks. TRacking how much action points that monster and 3 others have made in a round is tricky, at least starting out.
I like how clean most of this is. I will say the save number in parentheses was not intuitive to me. Once i know it its fine. But i certainly didnt have a clue before
I've never really DM'd but I want to play DC20 so much, I volunteered to DM "The Hunted" at my local gaming store. If everyone has fun, I might just keep going...
Be sure to state at the beginning that you are new to DMing and you might make mistakes. Sometimes players think the DM is bullshitting them when they just made a mistake. Saying at the beginning that you are new helps them get rid of a skeptical mindset.
Having an "official" template just to fill on our own when we are customizing and creating our own monsters (which is what this video is advocating) would be AWESOME!!!
I ran The Hunted this weekend and everyone had a blast. The first battle was a little slower as we learned the rules but by the second battle everyone was picking it up quickly and playing off each others characters to team work things. Running the monsters was very intuitive too. Can’t recommend this system enough and I can’t wait until the full version is finally finished. I’ve already got a home brew campaign developing in my mind with this system.
I love everything you guys are trying to accomplish with DC 20, but the one thing I'm not sold on is the removal of damage dice (forgive me if I'm missing something there). I know it's faster, but I really enjoy that moment of suspense. The other day one of my players screamed "I HATE IT WHEN HE STARTS COUNTING", to table wide chuckles. I also have a massive amount of homebrew I did for ship combat that can't be converted for this reason.
Very well put together, very clean looking stat block! I love the separation between Defense block, Stat, Feature and Attacks Block, really good design. Some parentheses are a bit unclear and might need better way to differentiate it at a glance, square bracket could be more striking. 2 Major points: - There is a lot of unused space in the top right corner, this could be an excellent spot for the creature Level + Role. Like MCDM is doing in their latest entries, it is a very efficient way to prepare for encounters when skimming through the book. - You can push the idea of 1 attack for both bite and claw further by naming it something like "Natural Weapons" and keeping it consistent across different creature entries so that the GM know what to expect stat wise and can flavor it accordingly. Once again very promising!
Thanks for the rundown! I appreciate it! Is there a blank template/fillable PDF of monster statblock somewhere by chance (like there is with the character sheet)? If not, is there a plan to put one out?
Super stoked as usual...keep these videos coming...I'm starting an actual play podcast, getting everything together, and just waiting on getting subclasses out, so my players can progress past level 3...anyway coach keep up the awesome work!
I just want to echo some of the other comments that this needs to be in the rule book to explain how to read it. I get most of it because it's similar to D&D, but it's gonna go over newbies' heads and I didn't get the parentheticals myself. If it's explained in the book, then this is all well and good. I do also appreciate including the numbers for heavy/brutal hits with PD/MD. It's not difficult math, but anything to make a DM's job easier (and faster) is great.
The monster stat blocks looks great. Easy to read. The only suggestion in my opinion is to put Actions just below attributes (Might, Agility, Charisma, Intelligence) list Name Size/type HP PD MD Attributes Actions Features Skills So we can easily see all the combat stats together during battles Keep the Situational stuff at the bottom
AGI 3(4)... AGI of 4 = in certain favourable conditions? Hmm looks like im incorrect. Coach, perhaps consider using a different bracket style to differentiate? Maybe something matches/similar to the attribute save diamond on the character sheet? I do like the concept of simplier to read monster block like Bob suggests in his videos
I'm running a 5e oneshot and used the starter pack to try and eyeball the conversion. I definitely overcrowded the battlefield and had to kinda back off and fudge stuff for my players to not steamroll them. I'm excited to dial it back a bit and adjust a few monsters and not hold back
I like the template, the parentheses meaning saving throws, weren't inherently obvious to me. But now that I know I like the placement and the minimal space used.
Your example with the crossbow makes sense and sounds cool, but I can see that unless it is explained like that somewhere people won't pick up on it. That would be my tip, similar to how pathfinder spells things out, if it's not written that's not how it works. It makes running things smoother and then the GM doesn't have to be the bad guy in disputes, they can just point to the rules and say "sorry that's what the rules say"
It might look good, but it also shows a bit of a flaw in the 4 stats. One is Coach's fuzzy definition of charisma. On one side it's social abilities on the other willpower, confidence, bravery or so. A bear might lack the Intelligence for social interaction, but as a apex predato it should be damn confident. Also what stat do I use for instincts? 5e had wisdom for the subconscious abilities but none of DC20's mental stats fit in my opinion.
I like the organization of it. Also, not really related to the stat block, I really like monsters being assigned a specific role similar to what was done in D&D 4e. That made building interesting encounters so much easier.
I'm sceptical of how fast this will be to run during combat, since when you want to do an attack you don't just choose from the list but also within a singe line (slashing vs piercing) an then considering which enhancements can and cannot apply and pick one. Thus this requires the GM to comprehend the entire actions block instead of just picking 1 bold option. I do love the split between offense and defence, and overall structure of the rest of the stat block.
Love all this, super intuitive, can’t wait for full release! I wonder if it makes sense to add an action tracker section to just check off AP boxes in a stat block. Most monsters just last 1 encounter, and a few rounds, could be simplified to not too much space on a stat block. Check mark boxes for round one, new line, checkboxes for round 2, etc. maybe a couple short grids smooshed in between two other sections or beneath the attributes (4 AP for 4 attributes is nice symmetry) or at the bottom next to actions so people can crop it out or not. Idk, just a thought, hope it helps!
You should give each "monster" at least one Reaction. Maybe for the wolf, an attack if you miss with a melee attack so the wolf can bite you for missing. The bear could have something that makes it tanky as a reaction, maybe some rage? Bandit could have a dodge or parry
Sorry this got a bit long lmao. TL:DR; i love your system but have some critical (positive) feedback on this. I was super excited to see these stat blocks. Honestly, I have been watching tons of your videos and following this project closely because I love almost everything about your class and game design so far. But with this? I was mildly disappointed. There are 2 things that I really dont get. ORGANIZATION I get your logic behind the layout of these stat blocks, but they actually feel completely counter-intuitive to me. IMO it just feels disorganized and erratic. For example, as it stands, you've organized it Defense numbers > Stats > Skills > Senses > Languages (even if there are none, its still there) > Senses again (in more detail) > Passive Attack benefit (under features, somehow different from enhancement) > Active Attack actions > Attack "enhancements" (basically an attack "Feature" except you've put it until Actions and made it cost an action point). But if you did something like Basics (Stats>Defense/Attack numbers), Features (Skills>Senses>Languages>Passive (non-combat?) traits), Actions/Combat (1-point actions>2-point actions) Action Enhancements (0-point passive always-active traits>1-point action benefits), I dunno, that just feels way more intuitive. Or sort it however works for you, but that type or categorization just seems more organized. CREATURE DESIGN It also seems these creatures are suffering the same design limitation/issues as 5e. I love that you put the classes and monsters on an equal level system, and designed the classes so that no two character designs would be alike. When I saw creature archetype of lurker, brute, etc, I was so incredibly excited that maybe this would be a sort of npc/monster open "class" system where monsters could also gain access to different types of spells and/or manoeuvers. But then you pigeon-holed them into static mechanics where all lvl1 wolves are the same and all lvl2 bears are the same. Like, is there some reason only a wolf can trip and a only bear can grapple? Wolves legitimately try to grapple enemies by the throat with their bite to take them to the ground. And there's no reason a bear wouldn't knock you over with its sheer strength and "tear you apart". That's literally what they do. Why not simply give access to a list of thematic spells/ martial manoeuvers based on keywords/types? For example, keywords like Beast or Brute might gain access to X manoeuvers, while keywords like Arcane or Shadow might gain access to X spells, etc. So, a gm could create a Shadow Bear which would be able to Maul and become Ethereal. Or whatever. Point is, players/GM's shouldn't have to homebrew/house rule things like "Bears can trip" and "wolves can grapple" for them to be a thing. I dunno, am I misunderstanding something here? I hope this wasn't too harsh or critical, because I can really see that this game is beautifully and lovingly crafted and I can't wait to see its full release! 🥰
Just a tiny change, id say for the bear stats the power attack enhancement might be better if it says "the bite or claw attack" only because I can see someone interpreting it to mean any attack with a bite or claw which swipe would have. Otherwise I love the stat blocks so much better than DND, I don't have to make my own excel grid so I can have the data so easy to hand
My thoughts on what the AGI 3(4) is might be that it has a modified agility for its first strike possibly as it is a lurker, presumably and ambush predator. Or perhaps it is increased when in a pack? Overall I feel like it means that the agility is normally 3 but in specific circumstances it will be 4.
This might be covered elsewhere, but how big is a "1 space arc"? This is almost definitely covered elsewhere: are the enhancements called before, or after, the roll? As an aside, have you thought about hex grids? They seem Tons easier and more intuitive than square grids to me (especially for circular blasts)... Don't know how far "outside the box" you want to get with some default rules 😉
On the enhancements, I had to look that up too, to be sure. They have to be called before the roll. On the arc, it's adjacent tiles covering 180° around you. I'd assume that means the 5 squares on the edge of one half of a 3x3 grid, though I suppose it might not include the diagonals, in which case it's only 3 squares. But yeah, there's nothing in the 0.8 ruleset that covers it, that I can find.
@@David-id6jw I can easily see the Bandit using all 4 Actions to do a single Crossbow Attack, with advantage, and +1 damage. Thanks for the clarifications!
Great Stat blocks! Very intuitive and WAY less clutter. Very cool! Small question: since weapons deal way less dmg than in 5e, do you account for that in HP? Because that bandit for example, in 5e has 11 HP but a one-level PC can kill it in one turn, here I don't think that's possible. Since drawn out combat is a big frustration of mine in 5e, I would hope DC20's combat doesn't take even longer. Very excited for the future of DC20!
I think it's because this bandit is just stronger than a common bandit in 5e. For comparison, the 5e bandit is a CR 1/8, while the 5e wolf is a CR 1/4. And I think it make sense that somebody who knows how to use melee and range weapons can at the very least be on par with a wolf
This is great, very neat stat block :) I have a question though: Are the Heavy/Brutal hit numbers on PD/MD _really_ needed? PD 11 implies that 16 would be a heavy hit anyway, no? Wouldn't it be cleaner not to have those numbers?
These definitely need more cowbell. 🔔 Will there be lore added to these? Especially when you get to some of the more iconic monsters such as undead and dragons and how they fit into the world? Or will that information be more in a Settings/Campaign book?
Looks good, but I'd seriously remove the senses part if it's going to simply repeat traits or be empty. Senses is supposed to reference senses that are defined elsewhere and are part of the game mechanics rather than monster-specific traits.
4:52 I'd assume, personally, that that'd parenthesis would indicate it's agility stat when rolling a save throw against a player effect Cool, I was right
What is the basis for stat calculation? Like how do you determine HP? Is it a combination of creature level and attribute score? Are defense numbers a calculation? Or are all creatures a type template that you flavor. I'm just trying to work my head around how I would appropriately stat a creature and it's not immediately obvious to me.
It would probably be good to have non simplified versions of the monster stat block so that people can learn what all the abbreviations means Or you can have (Cost) Name: effect For the action points section And you could add (save) to the save number
(like all DC20 stuff) This is very clean and I like it. But I do have a suggestion to include a couple things that was removed in new editions of another game - Location and number appearing. Of course like everything else there could be exceptions but this information can be helpful to a game master creating an adventure. Say your looking for a monster in a desert or forest location. We would know where this monster is commonly found And weather they are social or solitary monsters.
Mechanics Question: A player has to spend an extra AP to do another action of the same type in a turn - does this apply to creatures? For the wolf with 4 AP, can it do a Bite attack (1), Prone (1), and then Tear Apart (2) all in one turn? Or would doing the Tear Apart be considered another Attack Action and need an Action Point to execute, effectively making it wait until it's next turn.
Shouldn't a wolf also have "pack tactics" when there are 3 or more? I would assume the pack tactics for a wolf would be a flanking move with a circle of wolf attackers.
I am sure the stuff like resistances, languages and skills SHOULD go under the actions. When you are looking at the statblock, you first of all need Lvl, HP, PD and MD, then stats, then Hit bonus, Save DC, Martial, and then you need Actions. And after that the features. That's what you need in the first place, that's what you'll be looking in the middle of the combat, when you need to get info fast. And having to scroll it trough languages, immunities, skills is just a mistake of UI. I hope Dungeon Coach will take a note and make the best version of DC20!!!
Will all monsters have “roll against 15” initative or should each monster have a Base initiative modifier plus or minus from the 15 type to give the DM a starting point for a “standard” combat against that monster
I really love these statblocks. However I feel that having a number in parenthesis next to another number (like in Heavy/Brutal hits next to PD), though intuitive for someno who has already played 5e or similar ttrpg, can be confusing for first time ttrpg players
Only suggestion I have is Actions in my opinion would need to be above Features. Just based on functionality and how often I would be needing that information vs a Feature. Looks great and Im not too fussed about where things are in the block but where things are would be a nice to have.
The parenthetical save was not super intuitive to me (and neither were some of the abbreviations). Once you said it, it made sense, but I would make sure there's a good walkthrough of stat blocks in the book for new players.
this
@@Brandon-zw3hw Same here. A little subtitle would do the trick i think. Something like "Attributes (Saves)" in a similar font like the "Medium Beast..."
I've said this also. They have plenty of room to just put (Save x) if the few places where the save is different from the modifier. 3 (4) looks like it becomes 4 in some situations. Easy enough to just say "3 (Save: 4)" in the few cases where it is different. You have no shortage of space, even in the odd case where all the saves were different.
Some on both counts.
Agreed! I'm trying to run The Hunted one shot, but the stat blocks are confusing. They don't look like this... Does anyone know of a FAQ or a video where he addresses this? The rest of the module runs pretty smoothly, just not the combat because of these janky stat blocks, haha!
I love the 'Lurker' thing! It's a descriptor of the fiction and, in the case where you give your PCs some narrative control over how they dodged a monsters attack and then attacked back, then this 'lurker' descriptor would help them better envision what type of actions this monster would take that their PC would defend or dodge or parry. Anything that allows a player to better envision how that monster is moving, dodging, hopping around, feinting, attacking, defending, disappearing, running away, and anything else is a big improvement to me. As someone with a lot of anxiety and ADHD that constantly has me mentally checking out to the point I regularly forget what my character looks like in the moment, this is a much needed thing for me. You could even have a wolf pack made of a 3 lurkers, 2 rushers, 2 strikers, and 2 leaders who guide the others and 1 of them leads the offense and 1 leads the defense. This would actually help me envision this a lot better, even though they're all the same visual wolves. It helps me stay in the game a lot more.
This is a little bit that I'm developing in my own game where even classes aren't based on themes, but more on play style, like these types of descriptors. I will say, the reason this works for me is because I find I need mechanical interactivity to even be able to be immersed and actually play. If I didn't have any kind of interactivity with a system, I just tune out the whole thing, even though I love role playing. And the mechanical interactivity actually fuels the role playing, because 'this is how my character smites' or 'this is how my sorcerer pulls on their lineage to blast their enemies with lightning'. I can see this monster descriptor being able to help align the GM's vision for this monster and maybe a PC can identify this descriptor and understand that this monster 'acts this way, so stay sharp everyone'. I'm really enjoying watching all of this happening and developing! Can't wait to find people to play this game with.
Monster "archetypes" are straight outta DND4e and I'm HERE for it. I loved 4e and I love seeing so many bits and pieces of it come back across pf2e mcdm dc20 and even daggerheart. Love it!!!!
I totally agree with you.
Yep.
Yes, monster roles makes building encounters so so so much easier
This stat block is so clean for how DC20 works! I can't wait to get a hold of the template!
Yesterday I've DMed The Hunted for two friends for the first time. One of them plays DnD 5e , the other plays Vampire and Tormenta.
It was so easy tho get everything going. In less than 30 minutes we´re playing. We just loved it.
Grat work, Coach!
I like most of this. Pretty straight forward. I'm a little concerned that 1st timers might not understand what the parentheses next to the modifiers are but maybe if you had a little section in the book to explain like this video it'd be ok
Yup, that's my only worry as well
I think as long as in the “DM guide” there is a small stat block description it should be fine, keep in mind players won’t ever see these
@@ethanjensen6847 that was my thinking as well I was just hoping it'd be a little clearer in the actual stat block. The rest is pretty easy to understand at a glance; HP, PD, MD, Actions, Features etc etc. But unless it was explained elsewhere you'd have no idea why there's another number in parentheses next to the score
@8:40 - "It costs one action point" : OK, that was not my first assumption, though part of that is because of how you're doing the presentation, revealing a little bit at a time rather than looking at the entire stat block.
My first thought was, "This is the 1st option for it to take." Or, "Action #1". This is reinforced by the next item (Tear Apart) being prefixed by "(2)" - "Action #2". So actions are #1 and #2, but using parens. Nothing in there implies that that means "Action points".
If I were writing it, I'd use something like:
*Bite or Claw (1 AP):* Melee, 1 Piercing or Slashing
*Tear Apart (2 AP):* ~~description~~
AP is a main feature of the game. Numbering actions as Action #1 Action #2 doesn’t seem useful to anyone. Stating how Many Action points it cost is a necessity, it’s the main combat resource. It’s not unreasonable to assume that GM’s running the system should be aware of the main combat resource. If it were absent what would you think the AP cost is?
Looks great, DC. I don't like including the +5/+10 numbers, because adding 5 and 10 is easy, but I guess I wouldn't remove them unless there was something else you could use that real estate for (like making the font bigger). As an aging gamer with old eyes, I encourage increasing font size and using high contrast whenever possible.
Easy and Intuitive, and an excellent use of space!
I really hope there will be a fully supported stat block generator for homebrew!
I love the template idea. Not having 10 stat blocks for bears that are basically the same bear just enhanced/altered is awesome.
I can def tell Bob helped out with these! Great job everyone!
Will the shove action be revised? Currently, the shove action is stronger than the Prone maneuver because it can knock a creature prone with only one AP.
I had this same concern until it was pointed out to me that the prone maneuver is based off your prime Modifier, so the shove action is really only better for Might based characters.
Everyone else wants the prone maneuver
the shove action is mostly stronger as a reward for investing in Might. But the Prone maneuver does have upsides, mainly that you can use stamina for it(so it can potentially cost no AP) and that you can use it at range
Prone will be revised, and the Trip Maneuver with it.
@@josequiles7430 fair point
You’re enthusiasm is encouraging
I played my first session of DC20 this weekend and used the statblocks right from the get go. It was super easy and nice.
Critique on the Handbook:
The Steps of the Character Creation is a bit of. I think bringing Ancestry and Class up front would fix a lot.
Ps: Even if We used the action point system wrongly it was a blast playing that game.
This makes me proud to be a kickstart supporter. I’m glad I believed in you and your system. I am excited to see even more
@4:50 - Agi: 3 (4) : Bonus when hidden? (It's a Lurker.) Benefit when with a pack? (Pack Tactics is a memorable feature in 5E.) Bonus on the first round of combat? Bonus when injured? (Bonuses when below half health are not uncommon in older D&D and video games.) The difference between actions and saves? (Analogous to having proficiency with a save in 5E.)
And yes, that is literally the order of ideas I came up with when trying to answer the question of what I thought it meant.
Answer: The value in parentheses is for the save on that stat. Not immediately obvious, though understandable once explained. Which is fine in a video talking about the stat block where you're going over each detail, but... I looked at the PDF of the Monster Starter Pack, and could not find any explanation of what that was supposed to mean. So I'd consider this to be very unintuitive to any new player/GM.
This is my exact same thought. I looked at that (and in the PDF) and was wondering what the hell they meant. The 'by-five' notations ono the defensive stats were also an issue. I knew that each five increased the damage (the 'by 5') rule, but I had not put that with the number shown (mostly because I didn't look at the math of it when glancing at the stat block, and because that is not something I really need (or want) spelled out on the stat block. It just adds clutter IMO.
So happy to see this style of monsters will be the standard for DC20. It was one of my favorite things about 4th edition and I'm excited to see the TDC and team's spin on it.
Just the fact you brought in Bob gives me a lot of excitement for your implementation! He and you have awesome insights into effective statblocks with minimal fluff words.
The DC20 TTRPG is so inspiring! Thank you so much!
When I ran the hunted I will say that the parentheses threw me off at first, took like the 2nd or 3rd round of combat for me to realize it was the save. It works but can be confusing at first. Maybe add saves under skills to show what the parentheses
I've mentioned this in the discord - I don’t think the features section is needed. Explain the senses in the senses section and the attacks in the action section. Possibly have an attack enhancement type for heavy hits.
If there’s a features section, you need to check it whenever you interact with the stat block to make sure you're not missing anything.
The block has good principles that I think should be taken further.
More DC20 goodies! Yay!
The stat blocks look great!!
CR system in DnD does work, as CR N monster is a normal difficulty fight against a LV N 3-5 ppl party, but it's super unintuitive and unclear for new DMs.
But make sure to implement rules on scaling (ha) for dragons and other solo-ish bosses.
Speaking to the bite/claw thing, I love the idea of a monster dealing slashing on a normal hit BUT on a heavier hit it sinks its fangs/claws into the target and deals piercing instead.
Conversely, you could have it sink in and do piercing normally, but rip and tear on a heavier hit with slashing. Beautiful bit of flavour there.
I think it looks very clean overall! I will say, to echo some of the other comments, I had no idea what the 4 in parenthesis meant intuitively. I actually paused the video there and thought about it. My best guess was "3 or 4 if you want a stronger wolf" (which I know is a dumb guess lol).
Edit: I will say, I don't really know how you could make that one thing more intuitive. I suppose you could add in a column next to the stats but then it would probably clutter the cleanliness of it. I think it's fine to have just one element of the stat block that's slightly non-intuitive.
Seems like I guessed right about the parentheses! but I'm also a regular BWB watcher so that might have been a primer.
The most I have been excited for a full system ttrpg since shadowdark and this is a full replacement for 5e! Love it!
Finally! Great practical video for GM. The concept of creating monsters for DC20 is great. I'm looking forward to trying these monsters out.
I really like this. Like many people here who are backers of this project I really enjoy the updates and being part of the process. If you could please dial down the energy a tiny bit it may make your videos a bit more enjoyable to watch. In general I turn your videos down to 75% speed so I don't have to take a Xanex to watch them. Feel free to ignore this critique.
This i have waited for :)
This looks really great Coach! Really excited to try some out at the table!
Love the simple efficient layout!
I ran a one-shot 2 days ago and didn't know what the parenthesis meant on a monster from the Hunted one-shot. I just made up what it did, and used it probably incorrectly. It'd be easy to just put whatever's in parenthesis with a small "save" word above or below it.
Other than that, it's relatively simple to use the monster stat blocks. TRacking how much action points that monster and 3 others have made in a round is tricky, at least starting out.
I'm glad to see that you've figured out the templating. Looks much better than the original monster examples.
I like how clean most of this is. I will say the save number in parentheses was not intuitive to me. Once i know it its fine. But i certainly didnt have a clue before
I've never really DM'd but I want to play DC20 so much, I volunteered to DM "The Hunted" at my local gaming store. If everyone has fun, I might just keep going...
Be sure to state at the beginning that you are new to DMing and you might make mistakes. Sometimes players think the DM is bullshitting them when they just made a mistake. Saying at the beginning that you are new helps them get rid of a skeptical mindset.
Having an "official" template just to fill on our own when we are customizing and creating our own monsters (which is what this video is advocating) would be AWESOME!!!
About to start converting all my monsters for my next game to this! Im working on curse of strahd too
I’m very glad I’m finally looking into your RPG. With so many other RPGs fighting for attention yours stands out!
I really appreciate the simplicity of those stat blocks. 5e blocks make me grind my teeth and I hate trying to use them as is.
I ran The Hunted this weekend and everyone had a blast. The first battle was a little slower as we learned the rules but by the second battle everyone was picking it up quickly and playing off each others characters to team work things. Running the monsters was very intuitive too. Can’t recommend this system enough and I can’t wait until the full version is finally finished. I’ve already got a home brew campaign developing in my mind with this system.
I love everything you guys are trying to accomplish with DC 20, but the one thing I'm not sold on is the removal of damage dice (forgive me if I'm missing something there). I know it's faster, but I really enjoy that moment of suspense. The other day one of my players screamed "I HATE IT WHEN HE STARTS COUNTING", to table wide chuckles. I also have a massive amount of homebrew I did for ship combat that can't be converted for this reason.
For me the parenthesis in agility means that there may be an ability that bumps it at to 4 in certain scenarios.
Once again resurrecting 4e mechanics I love this
Very well put together, very clean looking stat block! I love the separation between Defense block, Stat, Feature and Attacks Block, really good design. Some parentheses are a bit unclear and might need better way to differentiate it at a glance, square bracket could be more striking.
2 Major points:
- There is a lot of unused space in the top right corner, this could be an excellent spot for the creature Level + Role. Like MCDM is doing in their latest entries, it is a very efficient way to prepare for encounters when skimming through the book.
- You can push the idea of 1 attack for both bite and claw further by naming it something like "Natural Weapons" and keeping it consistent across different creature entries so that the GM know what to expect stat wise and can flavor it accordingly.
Once again very promising!
Simple, fun and versatile. Can't wait to see your take on Dragons.👌
Perfection :3
Damn I'm so hyped
Thanks for the rundown! I appreciate it!
Is there a blank template/fillable PDF of monster statblock somewhere by chance (like there is with the character sheet)? If not, is there a plan to put one out?
Bro is cooking with heat🔥
Super stoked as usual...keep these videos coming...I'm starting an actual play podcast, getting everything together, and just waiting on getting subclasses out, so my players can progress past level 3...anyway coach keep up the awesome work!
I m so looking forward to getting my group together to play DC20.
The energy so much of it. even I'm breathing fast lol
Love it!! The stat block is SO CLEAN! Can't wait until my party makes the switch
yess!!!
I just want to echo some of the other comments that this needs to be in the rule book to explain how to read it. I get most of it because it's similar to D&D, but it's gonna go over newbies' heads and I didn't get the parentheticals myself. If it's explained in the book, then this is all well and good. I do also appreciate including the numbers for heavy/brutal hits with PD/MD. It's not difficult math, but anything to make a DM's job easier (and faster) is great.
these look super clean and fun, excited to run this system! I hope you're considering putting these on cards at some point.
The monster stat blocks looks great. Easy to read.
The only suggestion in my opinion is to put Actions just below attributes (Might, Agility, Charisma, Intelligence) list
Name
Size/type
HP PD MD
Attributes
Actions
Features
Skills
So we can easily see all the combat stats together during battles
Keep the Situational stuff at the bottom
where can we find the full archetype list
AGI 3(4)... AGI of 4 = in certain favourable conditions?
Hmm looks like im incorrect. Coach, perhaps consider using a different bracket style to differentiate? Maybe something matches/similar to the attribute save diamond on the character sheet?
I do like the concept of simplier to read monster block like Bob suggests in his videos
I'm running a 5e oneshot and used the starter pack to try and eyeball the conversion. I definitely overcrowded the battlefield and had to kinda back off and fudge stuff for my players to not steamroll them. I'm excited to dial it back a bit and adjust a few monsters and not hold back
I like the template, the parentheses meaning saving throws, weren't inherently obvious to me. But now that I know I like the placement and the minimal space used.
Your example with the crossbow makes sense and sounds cool, but I can see that unless it is explained like that somewhere people won't pick up on it. That would be my tip, similar to how pathfinder spells things out, if it's not written that's not how it works. It makes running things smoother and then the GM doesn't have to be the bad guy in disputes, they can just point to the rules and say "sorry that's what the rules say"
Ran my first DC20 game 2 days ago. This stat block will make it a lot easier to run combat, so next time I won't go so easy on them!
It might look good, but it also shows a bit of a flaw in the 4 stats.
One is Coach's fuzzy definition of charisma. On one side it's social abilities on the other willpower, confidence, bravery or so.
A bear might lack the Intelligence for social interaction, but as a apex predato it should be damn confident.
Also what stat do I use for instincts? 5e had wisdom for the subconscious abilities but none of DC20's mental stats fit in my opinion.
I think it works fine, predators are confident, but they don’t have much grit (unless starving) and will retreat at the sight of a potential threat.
I like the organization of it. Also, not really related to the stat block, I really like monsters being assigned a specific role similar to what was done in D&D 4e. That made building interesting encounters so much easier.
4:53 Saving throw bonus
I will gladly be stealing the attack enhancements! thats incredibly innovative
I'm sceptical of how fast this will be to run during combat, since when you want to do an attack you don't just choose from the list but also within a singe line (slashing vs piercing) an then considering which enhancements can and cannot apply and pick one. Thus this requires the GM to comprehend the entire actions block instead of just picking 1 bold option.
I do love the split between offense and defence, and overall structure of the rest of the stat block.
Love all this, super intuitive, can’t wait for full release!
I wonder if it makes sense to add an action tracker section to just check off AP boxes in a stat block. Most monsters just last 1 encounter, and a few rounds, could be simplified to not too much space on a stat block. Check mark boxes for round one, new line, checkboxes for round 2, etc. maybe a couple short grids smooshed in between two other sections or beneath the attributes (4 AP for 4 attributes is nice symmetry) or at the bottom next to actions so people can crop it out or not.
Idk, just a thought, hope it helps!
Then it could have the exact number of AP for the exact monster, and other resources if applicable
You should give each "monster" at least one Reaction. Maybe for the wolf, an attack if you miss with a melee attack so the wolf can bite you for missing. The bear could have something that makes it tanky as a reaction, maybe some rage? Bandit could have a dodge or parry
Sorry this got a bit long lmao. TL:DR; i love your system but have some critical (positive) feedback on this.
I was super excited to see these stat blocks. Honestly, I have been watching tons of your videos and following this project closely because I love almost everything about your class and game design so far. But with this? I was mildly disappointed. There are 2 things that I really dont get.
ORGANIZATION
I get your logic behind the layout of these stat blocks, but they actually feel completely counter-intuitive to me. IMO it just feels disorganized and erratic. For example, as it stands, you've organized it Defense numbers > Stats > Skills > Senses > Languages (even if there are none, its still there) > Senses again (in more detail) > Passive Attack benefit (under features, somehow different from enhancement) > Active Attack actions > Attack "enhancements" (basically an attack "Feature" except you've put it until Actions and made it cost an action point).
But if you did something like Basics (Stats>Defense/Attack numbers), Features (Skills>Senses>Languages>Passive (non-combat?) traits), Actions/Combat (1-point actions>2-point actions) Action Enhancements (0-point passive always-active traits>1-point action benefits), I dunno, that just feels way more intuitive. Or sort it however works for you, but that type or categorization just seems more organized.
CREATURE DESIGN
It also seems these creatures are suffering the same design limitation/issues as 5e. I love that you put the classes and monsters on an equal level system, and designed the classes so that no two character designs would be alike. When I saw creature archetype of lurker, brute, etc, I was so incredibly excited that maybe this would be a sort of npc/monster open "class" system where monsters could also gain access to different types of spells and/or manoeuvers. But then you pigeon-holed them into static mechanics where all lvl1 wolves are the same and all lvl2 bears are the same.
Like, is there some reason only a wolf can trip and a only bear can grapple? Wolves legitimately try to grapple enemies by the throat with their bite to take them to the ground. And there's no reason a bear wouldn't knock you over with its sheer strength and "tear you apart". That's literally what they do. Why not simply give access to a list of thematic spells/ martial manoeuvers based on keywords/types?
For example, keywords like Beast or Brute might gain access to X manoeuvers, while keywords like Arcane or Shadow might gain access to X spells, etc. So, a gm could create a Shadow Bear which would be able to Maul and become Ethereal. Or whatever. Point is, players/GM's shouldn't have to homebrew/house rule things like "Bears can trip" and "wolves can grapple" for them to be a thing. I dunno, am I misunderstanding something here?
I hope this wasn't too harsh or critical, because I can really see that this game is beautifully and lovingly crafted and I can't wait to see its full release! 🥰
Just a tiny change, id say for the bear stats the power attack enhancement might be better if it says "the bite or claw attack" only because I can see someone interpreting it to mean any attack with a bite or claw which swipe would have.
Otherwise I love the stat blocks so much better than DND, I don't have to make my own excel grid so I can have the data so easy to hand
Resistances at the very bottom means I didn't apply them at the top when the monster took damage.
Yep. My guess was saves. Intuitive
What is the timing for adding abilities to an attack? Do you add them (spend Actions) before you roll or after?
My thoughts on what the AGI 3(4) is might be that it has a modified agility for its first strike possibly as it is a lurker, presumably and ambush predator. Or perhaps it is increased when in a pack?
Overall I feel like it means that the agility is normally 3 but in specific circumstances it will be 4.
I was half right looks like. was on the right track that is it a score that is used for specific circumstances
This might be covered elsewhere, but how big is a "1 space arc"?
This is almost definitely covered elsewhere: are the enhancements called before, or after, the roll?
As an aside, have you thought about hex grids?
They seem Tons easier and more intuitive than square grids to me (especially for circular blasts)... Don't know how far "outside the box" you want to get with some default rules 😉
On the enhancements, I had to look that up too, to be sure. They have to be called before the roll.
On the arc, it's adjacent tiles covering 180° around you. I'd assume that means the 5 squares on the edge of one half of a 3x3 grid, though I suppose it might not include the diagonals, in which case it's only 3 squares. But yeah, there's nothing in the 0.8 ruleset that covers it, that I can find.
@@David-id6jw I can easily see the Bandit using all 4 Actions to do a single Crossbow Attack, with advantage, and +1 damage.
Thanks for the clarifications!
Great Stat blocks! Very intuitive and WAY less clutter. Very cool!
Small question: since weapons deal way less dmg than in 5e, do you account for that in HP? Because that bandit for example, in 5e has 11 HP but a one-level PC can kill it in one turn, here I don't think that's possible.
Since drawn out combat is a big frustration of mine in 5e, I would hope DC20's combat doesn't take even longer.
Very excited for the future of DC20!
I think it's because this bandit is just stronger than a common bandit in 5e. For comparison, the 5e bandit is a CR 1/8, while the 5e wolf is a CR 1/4. And I think it make sense that somebody who knows how to use melee and range weapons can at the very least be on par with a wolf
This is amazing. I’m only slightly worried about how to gm like 5 wolves and keep track of the actions. :)
This is great, very neat stat block :)
I have a question though: Are the Heavy/Brutal hit numbers on PD/MD _really_ needed? PD 11 implies that 16 would be a heavy hit anyway, no?
Wouldn't it be cleaner not to have those numbers?
4:59 Some kind of a replacement
These definitely need more cowbell. 🔔
Will there be lore added to these? Especially when you get to some of the more iconic monsters such as undead and dragons and how they fit into the world? Or will that information be more in a Settings/Campaign book?
Looks good, but I'd seriously remove the senses part if it's going to simply repeat traits or be empty. Senses is supposed to reference senses that are defined elsewhere and are part of the game mechanics rather than monster-specific traits.
Guessing on the (4): maybe it's their initiative?
I was wrong lol
4:52 I'd assume, personally, that that'd parenthesis would indicate it's agility stat when rolling a save throw against a player effect
Cool, I was right
What is the basis for stat calculation? Like how do you determine HP? Is it a combination of creature level and attribute score? Are defense numbers a calculation? Or are all creatures a type template that you flavor. I'm just trying to work my head around how I would appropriately stat a creature and it's not immediately obvious to me.
It would probably be good to have non simplified versions of the monster stat block so that people can learn what all the abbreviations means
Or you can have
(Cost) Name: effect
For the action points section
And you could add (save) to the save number
Where is has abilities say abilities (save) at the top of the section and all will be clear. 4:50
Crossbow should be (1+1) with "Reload" in the description.
(like all DC20 stuff) This is very clean and I like it. But I do have a suggestion to include a couple things that was removed in new editions of another game -
Location and number appearing.
Of course like everything else there could be exceptions but this information can be helpful to a game master creating an adventure. Say your looking for a monster in a desert or forest location. We would know where this monster is commonly found And weather they are social or solitary monsters.
Mechanics Question: A player has to spend an extra AP to do another action of the same type in a turn - does this apply to creatures?
For the wolf with 4 AP, can it do a Bite attack (1), Prone (1), and then Tear Apart (2) all in one turn? Or would doing the Tear Apart be considered another Attack Action and need an Action Point to execute, effectively making it wait until it's next turn.
Shouldn't a wolf also have "pack tactics" when there are 3 or more? I would assume the pack tactics for a wolf would be a flanking move with a circle of wolf attackers.
Are the points for enhancements added before you roll to hit or after you hit.
Nice 👌
The () for save was not very intuitive 😅 but it's like every system, something to learn 😉
I am sure the stuff like resistances, languages and skills SHOULD go under the actions. When you are looking at the statblock, you first of all need Lvl, HP, PD and MD, then stats, then Hit bonus, Save DC, Martial, and then you need Actions. And after that the features. That's what you need in the first place, that's what you'll be looking in the middle of the combat, when you need to get info fast. And having to scroll it trough languages, immunities, skills is just a mistake of UI. I hope Dungeon Coach will take a note and make the best version of DC20!!!
Will all monsters have “roll against 15” initative or should each monster have a Base initiative modifier plus or minus from the 15 type to give the DM a starting point for a “standard” combat against that monster
I really love these statblocks. However I feel that having a number in parenthesis next to another number (like in Heavy/Brutal hits next to PD), though intuitive for someno who has already played 5e or similar ttrpg, can be confusing for first time ttrpg players
Only suggestion I have is Actions in my opinion would need to be above Features. Just based on functionality and how often I would be needing that information vs a Feature. Looks great and Im not too fussed about where things are in the block but where things are would be a nice to have.
What happened to Reactions on the stat block? ... Or are those default actions like disengage? ... I love to give reactions to monsters too.