The 1843 Side-Lever Hall Carbine by Simeon North
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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The final production version of the Hall was Simeon North’s Model 1843 Carbine, of which 10,500 were made between 1844 and 1853. It used North’s percussion update to the design, and a cleverly simple calming lug connected to a lever on the right side of the action to open the breech. These were smoothbore .54 caliber guns, issued to the Dragoons and used in the Mexican-American War.
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Presumably tomorrow we'll see an Oates
Gee Dad, do you think?
Watch out boy... here she comes
If he can find one, maybe. I've heard it's a bitch, girl.
I'm surprised anyone remembered Oates.
A saw oats play a while back at a bar in Hawaii. Nothing good going on by himself.
Did I detect a hint of distaste when Ian said "It's smoothbore as well."?
"Why is it a carbine?"
"Cause it ain't rifled!"
Lol
@another pleb woosh
Does the smooth bore make it a musketoon instead of a carbine?
It is a carbine because it is short for ease of use while on a horse.
@@Dennis-vh8tzyes
That old girl is in AMAZING condition, I wish I had held up so well......lol
When 175 years old you get, look that good you will not.
😇
@@ScottKenny1978 I won't look as good at half that.
Ian’s very annoyed that it isn’t rifled 😂
@@therake8897 Since cavalry fights mounted and most of the time the saber was the preferred weapon smooth bore makes sense. I wish Ian would look at the larger picture. How many times have we heard of black powder fouling rifles after a few shots. It was not until the advent of the Minie ball that black powder rifled muskets became viable.
and it is written that when the gun Jesus saw the unrifled barrel he was displeased and spake thusly. Henceforth any and all guns shall have rifled barrels and the minions complied.
The gun Jesus saw this and it was good. Selah!
@@richardlathrop61 Ian did mention the fouling.
Rifling would have added accuracy to the package for the first few rounds fired after cleaning. Ian's point, I believe, is about taking a big technical step forward and then taking a half step back by not rifling the barrel. What seems to be left out is the dimension of tactical dragoon combat doctrine. Would a rifled barrel be more helpful in scouting and skirmishing? How much combat time was spent fighting dismounted? How important was aimed fire as opposed to mass volley fire?
@@richardlathrop61 I have to disagree, US cavalry very rarely fought mounted. Traditionally they still clutched to their sabers as an official primary weapon, but using them in battle was even more rare than fighting mounted. Also, breach loading rifles were much less susceptible to fouling as the projectile carried much of the fouling from previous rounds out with it and didn’t have to be forced down from the muzzle into the fouling.
The Hall models are so cool in and of themselves. Honestly if i ever hit the lottery ill start my own collection, but until then i guess ill just have to watch whatever Ian finds to show
Thank you Ian. I was not aware of this last version, so I learned something new today. I agree with you that the smoothbore idea was unfortunate.
Dragoons often complained about the smoothbore .69 cal 1847 percussion Musketoon as inaccurate, also.
Never saw this variant of Hall Rifle, and I must say the sidelock design is ingenious, yet simple enough solution for the Rifle.
I love this gun, it looks so elegant yet simple
When I first saw a Hall "in the flesh" last year at Fort Scott National Historic Site in Kansas, I was really surprised to learn that those carbines weren't rifled.
This carbine is in amazing condition! It looks like North definitely took the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' mentality when it came to making improvements to the Hall system.
Isn’t it about time for a Calico video?🤣
It's broken.
@@rubbafunk It broke on video, and he discussed it in comments.
@@Hansengineering
Malfunction =/= broke.
Or did I miss another video?
@@onpsxmember afaik either a spring in the mag broke or the extractor is fuzzed. Been a few weeks since ive seen the video.
@@onpsxmember you missed the discussion, apparently. If a firearm malfs repeatedly, it is broken, even if there's no part physically broken. He even shot a match with the Hotchkiss Universal explicitly because the Calico was not functional.
Why is it that it's mostly the Springfield Armory that's cited as the source of modern mass production, if Hall had such an obvious early success at Harper's Ferry? He's like an unsung hero of the industrial revolution :).
Most of the references I saw cite Whitney as introducing interchangeable parts, not Springfield or Harpers Ferry.
@@tomhalla426 whitney actually conned the government inspectors by carefully cherry-picking the parts he used in his exchange demonstration.
This piece is in absolutely amazing condition. Did they find it in a stasis pod somewhere?
i love ians entire channel is just him talking about a cool weapon or somethin like that and people love it for that
You were in my dream last night. We were on a ferry. You were super cool. You showed us some videos on your phone that hadn't been posted yet. Then I woke up 😔
Beautiful firearm! Perfect timing of this video, just got my copy of Hall's Military Breechloaders in the mail today! Ian needs to do another book review
Such an unsung rifle! Glad to see it get its due.
Condition is just stunning.
Clever and elegant! This example is in amazingly good condition. Poverty sucks.
Thanx for this Ian. Your presentations are always very good. Yes, the smooth bore thing really threw me. Especially in a carbine! Would love to know the reasoning behind that decision.
Smoothbore is quite horrible. If ever you've been invited to a paintball match and thought "I'm a pretty good shot, I'm gonna be okay." No. You can actually see the balls curving out in random directions.
Laughs in abrams
@@sparetime2475 Fin stabilized projectiles fix that problem obviously.
Luckily "spray and pray" is a viable option with a large hopper of ammo. You don't aim a paintball so much as intuit the area you want to hit as you shoot from the hip.
While not terribly accurate, smoothbore muskets are generally more accurate than that. There are many videos on YT demonstrating practical accuracy of smoothbores.
Check out British Muzzle Loaders' videos for some demonstrations with smoothbore muskets. When made to military standards, they're more accurate than I used to think. Consistently hitting man-sized targets at 50-100 yards is definitely possible.
Look pretty good to me, only issues... the thing in the middle of the sight and that's a smoothbore; other than that... looks great to me.
Wish I could find blueprints or designs to sit down and study of these odd ball guns. They are fascinating seeing all the different designs. Wish the original manufacturing designs were for sale.
Ian in 2120: Today we're taking a look at some cool early 3d printed guns...
It never ceases to amaze the resistance to change to change that military has to innovation.
That is a beautiful piece (Even if it ain't rifled ! ), the stock looks like it was made yesterday.
Great Video as always! !
Vs. a muzzleloader, loading a Hall would seem to be vastly easier when on your belly, hunkered down behind a rock, or when remaining in the saddle.
Early squad. Quite an elegant weapon
Funny you'd say that; about 1 minute in I also thought to myself "that sure is a handsome long gun".
For a more civilized age?
...for a more civilized age
Seems like a nice 'handy' little rifle!
Well, a handy breach-loading-musket-carbine-thing anyway. 😝
@@rogerramiussergeialexander5541 I just like the way Ian calls anything short 'handy'...
I don’t know why but i like the stamps the inspectors put on the gun, gives a sense of creativity
Damn... I actually now wanna see videos of someone firing this.
Wow, I’d never even heard of this rifle before. How could anyone see this rifle and not quit muzzle loading forever? Thanks for educating me about it.
Simple, they saw the price tag.
The old locking lug was rounded, and the new ones straight. Probably another simplification, I thought Ian would mention it.
That carbine has been very well taken care of over the past 176 years :)
very cool gun
Amazing condition, especially the wood. I would love to know where it came from. Someone loved that rifle. It is in better condition than i am, and i am barely 1/4 of its age!😃
Knew a little about the Hall from 1 or 2 gunzine articles over the years (thank you Garry James). I forgot that they made smoothbore ones. Great video as always. Thank you
Side levers are actually pretty genius, like it probably saves you lots of time, idk why thay dont do it on more guns like snipers, Unless 👉👈
Thanks Ian, still enjoying the Hall collection. Keep up the work!
That wood looks immaculate for its age
This Chanel is great for watching when trying to sleep. It’s so relaxing
Simeon North must have been monkeying around for a while to come up with this design.
I dealt with a bloke at work called Simeon Gibbons, how much must his parents have hated him.
@@tyrantworm7392 Your comment made me laugh probably more than it should have.
it amazes me that the army didn't continue with the hall rifle and instead went back to muzzle loaders. but then again they resisted rifling muskets even longer.
The Minie' ball made the Hall obsolete about 1855. It may seem like a step back to return to a front loading percussion rifle, but the cost and simplification of manufacture ($20 each in 1861) made the Springfield the weapon of choice for arming a large army. I suspect a Springfield 1861 was also much less prone to damage in the field.
Once again, HIGHLY INTERESTING content.
*Casually pulls out second rare gun*
Wow, that's in gorgeous condition!!!
This gun is in such good condition I honestly would've thought it was a reproduction
Very cool Rifle. It's fun taking a break from studying the Mexican American War to learn about the weapons used.
Man its been trip I remember coming across your channel looking up revols and back then the most views on a video would be like 3 to 4 thousand views
I came here because Taylor Anderson's Artillerymen series, a spinoff prequel of his Destroyermen series, features Hall carbines prominently in the hands of 1847 US Army dragoons, even including the maintenance issues.
Of course Ian presents a very rare and ancient rifle from the 1800s, and during the video pulls out the even older and rarer version from under the table...
Hey Ian,ever found a volley rifle similar to the double one and the Pieper we already saw?
Thank you ,Ian .
Thats a nice ass gun.
Weird 19th century breachloaders is ny favorite Forgotten Weapons genre
Middletown Connecticut shout out on the markings. Woo!
Could it have been made a smoothbore in order to use shot or buck and ball loads for cavalry? Basically to make them into shotguns for close range on the move firing? Rifled barrels wouldn’t be as good for those kind of loads.
Looks like a very handy little carbine
Gun Jesus tells us the final chapter in the tale of Saint Hall.
I wonder if they were using buck and ball in these things, intending for them to be a faster musketoon rather than a rifle, still seen as a precision instrument rather than a general issue weapon
Thank you for this very interesting presentation.
Early breechloaders are very interesting and yet not too much info is available about these.
Dang that one looks in great shape for it's age.
I hope you do final prices videos, love them.
Ian - does it have that "Kalashnikov Klack?" ;-)
That Klick-Klack is probably the most iconic rifle charging sound
@@TheDiameter I actually was referring to the AK safety, which I thought bears an uncanny resemblance to the Hall's side lever. Just funnin'!
@@kbjerke that was actually my first thought as well.
That thing is in amazing condition!
Great to see you Ian 🤙
Good morning everyone!
Good morning to you sir.
It's night time here where I am, so hopefully Ian's video got you off to a good start for the day.
Gorgeous for it's age.
Has Mae Shot This Yet ?
That thing is in amazing condition
Enjoyed watching Ian take care
Last time I was this early, tsarina Ekaterina thought it was a good idea to support British colonies' fight for independence
It’s like when the AR went from browning to colt
What do you mean by that, are you talking about the BAR?
@@austinm.9832 no, I was referencing when the AR-15 went from browning management to colt management.
@@kerrycoleman8395 Browning wasn’t involved with Armalite at all.
very much enjoy, thank you.
Every household needs a Hall rifle, a parlor pistol, and a wall gun
kijk dat is weer een heel interessant verhaal en een prachtig wapen . opa
Came here after Taylor Anderson's Artillerymen book mentioned the Hall Carbine. Now I have an image to use when they mention the rifle.
No rifling!!! "I Can't Go for That, no no,( no ) no can do."
Excellent
If you squint, you can almost see it as the M-0 Garand
No mention of Samuel Chamberlain? Wow.
That's one sexy gun.
You could almost use the breech block as a gun in itself.
Yes you could. I have read that during the occupation of Mexico City the commanders had to issue strict orders against taking the breech blocks out of the carbines to carry in a pocket in the sketchier parts of town. It may be a myth (military stories often are) but it's certainly plausible. I suspect it wouldn't be any fun to shoot but it's better than bleeding out in a gutter.
What's the use of having the breechblock vs an usual full barrel cap and ball ? Can someone explain iam new to this .. i love ap and ball antiques
5:45 small error there, the locking surfaces are not identical. The surface is curved on the flintlock version and straight with a slight slope on the percussion Version.
Need an accuracy comparison for this carbine
You need to check out the norwengian Kammerlader/chamber loader.
With slightly more complexity the Hall percussion breech could have incorporated a nice breech seal like the Kammerladder.
What made percussion caps cheaper than flintlocks?
Very cool
Is it just my eyes, or does the early version have a slight radius on the locking lugs, while the side lever's lug is straight?
Could you find a Feruson rifle to display
So when hostilities in the civil war broke out why didn't the federals ramp up production of the hall? It was a well proven design and had a combat record? The Sharps and Spencers are great but the Halls could have been produced at the fed armories.
The Hall was produced at Harpers Ferry and that armory was under Rebel control at the beginning of the war. Also the introduction of Minie balls negated the main advantage of the hall, that being accuracy and rapidity of fire.
Amazing.
Was the Hall rifle ever modified to use the Minne bullet or did it remain using a round ball?
Minié's design of bullet wasn't used during the American Civil War. They were used prior to and around that period by various nations, but none of the bullets used during the ACW used the Minié system.
If you mean a hollow-based bullet like the Burton or the Pritchett, then why would you want to do that? The whole idea of a hollow-based bullet is so it can be muzzle-loaded relatively easily into a rifled barrel and grip the rifling on the way out as it expands.
This is a breech-loaded smoothbore (not a muzzle-loader) so there's no problem loading a slightly oversized bullet in the first place and, as there's no rifling for one to expand into anyway, what would be the point?
Thanks nice video
Amazing condition, a couple of question: Those carbines were re-barreled (with rifled barrels), Do they maintain the .54 caliber?, Ballistic of that caliber? (muzzle velocity, bullet weight, etc. Best regards from Argentina. Espectacular estado de conservación, un par de preguntas. Esas carabinas recibieron nuevos cañones (cañones estriados) ¿mantuvieron el calibre 54? Cual es la balística de ese calibre? velocidad en boca, peso de la punta, etc. Saludos desde Argentina
They didn't rebarrel them, they just bored out and rifled the existing ones.
@@johnkelinske1449 Thank you for the explanation John!
@@carloslalik4346 You are welcome!
The Hall really doesn't have a receiver as such, the two iron straps that hold the breech block chocks are just screwed to the sides of the barrel.
@@johnkelinske1449 Oh, I didin´t know that, thanks, So I undestand thatthe conversion work was easy, correct?
@@carloslalik4346 Pretty much, they went to the standard musket caliber of .58, some of these were done by various contractors. In one instance this resulted in a huge scandal where the Government was buying back their own weapons they had sold as surplus but the buyer didn't actually have legal title to at the time.
Caused great embarrassment for President Lincoln and the General responsible to be dismissed.
Ian, i think the reason it isnt rifled is because the rifling would add pressure as it would slow down the bullet's travel in the barrel and because it isnt a sealed action, the extra gas leak would destroy and corrode the stock significantly faster
Cool