I'm a man who doesn't have kids and probably never will. I could live another 50 years and I promise Vance I have a stake in the future too. I want a good future for other people's children as well because, which may come as a surprise to Vance, it's possible to care about things besides yourself.
Thank you, and it is great to have a choice and identify outside of having kids (or not). Women do not have this choice (yet). Our lives and bodies are still conditioned to focus on our parenthood status. There is a privilege a childless man has which is a freedom from the judgement that women have (that Chelsea is talking about).
Kamala and Chelsea out here with the cheat codes, and I’m here for it. It’s like the meme: Boomers: “don’t have children you can’t afford” Millennials: (choose not to have kids) Boomers: “No NoT LiKe ThAt”
As a childfree, married dog lady, it also irks me that our choice not to have children is only acceptable to certain people if I'm focusing all my energy on my career instead (no one seems to care what my husband does with his time). A woman's existence isn't valid only if she devotes herself to work, domestic or for an employer.
I think it's weird to believe that you can only love and want someone to thrive if you've given birth to them. Some of the coolest, most engaged women in my childhood were not mothers, and therefore they had the time and energy to engage with children in their community in a deeper way. We ALWAYS thought they were so cool, and they were often the ones showing us interesting things, taking us hiking, indulging us when we wanted to show off our rooms, the fort we built, the berries we picked etc. Never mind the help they gave to parents by their willingness to take a gaggle of kids on some outing. My best friend's aunt took my friend on all sorts of cool bikepacking trips, to the women's soccer world cup where they met Mia Hamm etc etc. Even in our 30s, these women are still interested in our lives, great sounding boards, wonderful support.
This so much. My absolute favourite teachers and community leaders in charge of vartious activities when i was growing up were mostly women without children of their own. To me, it shows the very meaning of "it takes a village to raise a child". It's a beautiful division of care. But the men who have these sort of opinions on women are so often entrenched deep within individuialism that they can't even understand that. (obviously i'm not saying women must partake in childcare to have value, but there is value in the women who dedicate their lives to helping raise other children).
There is also the fact that she is a stepmother so she is a parent or at the bare minimum participating in parenting. Which means the lack of value for Vance and people like him comes from her not having biological children of her own. He considers her failing at what he assumes to be her biological duty. This makes wonder if he feels similarly towards women who adopt or foster. Especially knowing his stance on IVF.
I've seen and heard too many people people on the right/religious/ conservative that don't view adoption, or even in-laws as "real" family compared to blood relatives. They genuinely think that only biological children matter. So yes, they have that fucked up mindset, hide it but it's only now being shown bit by bit.
This is absolutely true. The other, connected, thing that it implies is the requirement to 'settle'. I'm unmarried and childless, and I get flack for being unmarried, too. I think we're supposed to feel that we HAVE to marry, even if we don't meet a man who loves us or whom we love, because women need to be connected to a man. People are supposed to tie themselves, for life, to someone they don't really care for, and produce children with that person, despite not loving or even liking that person. It's obligatory, like taxes. The result is unwanted kids and miserable marriages, which is terribly sad.
I agree. I think it’s why so many are in crap marriages. At least their with someone. 🤷🏽♀️I’ve seen this misery up close in my own family, I’m good. Plus why does a stranger not getting married or having kids bother them so much? Such weirdos!
But she does have children. If she plays the role of a mother in someone's life she is a mother. It doesn't matter wether or not she gave birth to them. If anything, taking in your husband's children and making them your family shows even more love and respect for children that just raising your own offspring
YES! Thank you for articulating this so clearly. You've put words to something that has bothered me for so long about this grading system that childless women are subjected to - even by other women!
I think it's a cruel lie. Children hear that and blame themselves - because their mothers gave them up for adoption, or worse, hurt them as a child. Imagine the person who experiences the "pinnacle" of human love, "something nobody else could EVER comprehend", and still gives that child up. The child is going to feel lacking - even though they are not and never have been.
Yes! He is trying to support this idea that only people with biological kids have a stake in the future. Vance, buddy, if you didn’t care about the future before you had kids, that’s a you thing! Your personal thoughts are not universal!
we should talk more about how for as long as recorded history emperors were hungry for tax payers and soldiers and therefore blackmailed and threatened all the women into striving toward marriage and babies. so we should definitely be kicking this disfunctional worldview in this overpopulated world where we live. i love kids but we should not damage our bodies for someone else's empire dream.
and instead of playing the 'how will we fund pensions' card to blackmail women about marriage and babies, we should instead turn our attention to robots and taxing away mega yachts.
Totally agree! 👏 I get a kick out of it now as the more it bothers those types of men/women the more I know it's because I'm killing it and they feel triggered by my joy & contentedness because there's major aspects of their life they're resentful about, not my problem - it's basically misogynistic projection
Yes, because wiving and mothering are our only “purpose”. Everything else is hobbying and horseplay, which is why if you skip over your “purpose” to do men’s “work”, you’re not only broken, you’re irresponsible to the point of being bad for society. Wild stuff
I think it's a lack of empathy. The type of person who has only ever cared about themselves has a kid and the feeling of caring so much for their child hits them way harder than it does for other parents. They just can't imagine caring about other people and only have one lived example themselves which is caring about their own children.
That’s often tied with the concept of “owning” one’s children. My kids are my property so I care for them like I care for my business or house. Especially if the child is female (look no further than purity culture and the father giving away his daughter/ property at the altar)
Attacking childless women is sick. It can be a choice, but it might not be!! You don't know, so you don't get to ask!!!! You don't get to talk about. Full stop. And women have value in ourselves, not just who we are related to.
Please do a pt. 2 where you explain to the weirdos in these comments (and this country) that a person without kids absolutely has a stake in the future of the country.
It is kind of pointless, they don't listen to reason (just rhetoric) which is so scary, no matter how articulately and effectively Chelsea makes her point :(
They DID build an excellent game. It lasted 6,000 years, give or take. We finally cracked the code by catching up and overtaking their game, praise the Ancestresses. Now they want to "move the goal posts" yet again. But we're not done. The Crones haven't even begun to rise yet. I'm waiting, listening, for the sound of the Old Women who will bring about the end of the Game at last, cut the cord, dance in the flames, and cackle once again as in the ancient days. They will finish the Patriarchy.
Totally untrue. There are many non-Christian cultures that honored women, let them fight along men, were successful farmers, leaders, warriors and the like. Christianity, Judaism and Islam (abrahamic religions) did not always exist and are not the only religions or cultures that have ever existed. Anthropologists have found female viking warrior remains. Egyptians and China had female rulers. Many pagans of many eras had freedom of sexuality and . Native American women were revered as bringers of life, and treated with equal rights. Personal unpopular opinion-Christianity is root of all evil, violence and 💩 backbone to modern male politicians trying to go backwards in time to rob women of their rights and power.
@@chelseabunker2391 I couldn't agree more with what you say, but I don't quite get this as a response to the above poster. They didn't mention christianity?
As a man, I will always stand up for women. That’s regardless of them choosing to be a wife or mother or a strong, independent, child-free woman. Weak men and incels are threatened by strong women.
this is mindblowing!! makes so much sense of all the highkey sacrificial lamb attitudes that said parents have around their children and nuclear families, like they're only half there and their children are shields and shackles. i see this a lot too in consevative poc families which alienates a lot of their kids (left-leaning) from their parents
And after you become a devoted wife and mother, then there is such a lack of respect for that choice, too, because men with the mindset of J. Dasdardly Vance think you’re not working, deserve no respect or compensation for the time you devoted to raising children. It’s a no-win situation with such men and their superior attitudes. Basically, all of these views are mechanisms for control.
I tried the wife bit (unsuccessfully for nearly 10 years) and I admit I do have a grown up child in their 30s. But there's no way on God's little green earth, that I have ever thought that makes me a better or more virtuous human. It's the 21st century not the 1500s or the 1700s, who thinks like that anymore, heaven help us!
Lol soo true! You can't control a cat, you have to earn their respect and trust and they don't just follow. Definitely a link here with why some people hate women who don't follow their rules about roles for women.
My uncle was recently telling me about how his wife needs to accept that "there are other people out there." Yes, he's cheating. His wife is a college educated woman who stayed home with kids. At some point, her mother moved in and quickly saw the "cachos (horns)" growing out of her head and started "poising" her against my uncle. At which point, my uncle threatened to leave and that he would be leaving with his credit cards. A few years ago he recounted a similar story involving my grandfather, his father, and how my grandfather was basically financially abusing my grandmother, his mother, and how my grandmother had saved enough to leave and how he convinced her to return. He, of course, doesn't see the abuse of it, so no surprise, he is doing the same to his wife. And it's really the same. My grandfather, rip, had a whole other family who thankfully had enough shame to never show their faces. Sorry for the rant, but this is a reminder to women that being cat ladies is more than ok.
Fortunately, I'm in academia and have a PhD in my field. Being single and child free seems to be more common among women in this position and very few question it. I think we're more likely to face stigma for having a PhD and accused of thinking we're "better than" others. Really, I just went to school for a really long time and wrote a really long paper on a topic no one cares about. And, as a person who leans conservative, I think Vance stepped over a line for a lot women of all politcal views.
It's disgusting that with all the progress human civilization has made over the past five or so millenia, that were now being told the only accomplishment that matters is passing on our genes.
"you can do your little Barbie job after motherhood..." Barbie did whatever job wanted & excels at everything she touches w/o having children & this shows women can do it too!
This is so interesting. Somehow I internalized the opposite message. I am a women, and I’ve internalized the idea that my husband and I are expected to have kids only after I’ve proven my worthiness with an impressive career
I can see that. I know people who have done just that. I did everything out of order. Had a kid. Finished college when he was 6. Stayed home at that time. He’s just moved out at 22 after obtaining 2 degrees and it’s a strange feeling. I have felt aware of potential negative judgement from others and my childhood nuclear family wasn’t overly successful. Out of 4 siblings I’m the only one that finished a 4 year degree (in nearly 8 years 😂) and my parents didn’t have degrees. Now my mother divorced when I was 19 and did remarry a person with a masters in chemical engineering and his side of the family has some impressive young (30 and under) adults in it. My own son is going for a PhD currently with no immediate plans for family and a child although that has not come from me. I’ve encouraged looking for someone now that he’s finished his undergrad degrees bc I don’t actually think he and his equally successful future wife would have to wait.
And throw people with infertility issues that desperately want to have kids into the mix. It’s a hard path to be on and they have “no stake” under this ideology.
I "want" to say that idiots like Vance would be understanding, but I get the feeling they'll say infertile men are not really "men" and infertile women are good for having sex with but not marrying.
For me I always loved the idea of caring for others children like the cool aunt , or being someone a person could come to and I would always have a room open .
My dad and brother are chronically ill and I don’t think I will ever want kids. Who am I to gamble someone’s life if there’s a chance they could have a lifelong illness like my dad or brother? I also am a health care worker and have seen HORRIBLE accidents, children being abused, death…a lot of death. And I just could not subject someone to that when there are already thousands of children already on earth who don’t have a mommy or daddy. I would love to foster someday but I just feel like it’s ethically wrong for me to have a child. Other people can do what they want but I don’t think it’s for me. And as a woman who has worked so hard for the awesome career I have, I can say I feel whole, fulfilled, and like I contribute to others lives.
I don't think it's even as complex or conditional as that. There's simply still a segment of society who want women back in the subservient baby machine role they occupied prior to the mid-20th century.
My dad belongs to this demographic. For them, women are supposed to be mothers. That's their primary job. Not being a mom means you aren't a complete woman. They see it as cheating. Like the same way they see guys who don't have jobs and live off their parents. Like you're extending adolescence to old age. It's their reality. They won't change it. They think God made it that way.
To be fair, he had the same complaint about childless male politicians. He's equal opportunity about his opinion that people with children are more likely to care deeper about long-term impacts of policies. Whether one agrees with that premise is another issue.
To be fair, if he dresses his possibly equal opportunity criticism in sexist language, it can still be sexist. His original comment talks about the “childless cat lady” and specifically named 2 women as examples. (And, sure, he also named a man, but I wouldn’t count homophobia as a particularly good defense against sexism.) He supported his argument in a sexist way and hasn’t done much to change that impression he made.
priests, nuns don't have kids of their own yet a lot of them are doing good work to make the world better. selflessly. one can choose distortion to justify pre existing misery.
It's a major reason I left my religion. I never wanted kids and was judged for choosing a career instead. I sat down next to a women who I said hi to and she was holding a cute little baby. We talked and I asked her about her kids. She said she had five and all from different men. I said how awesome her kiddos were and how cute. She then asked me if I was married with kids. I said no and began to explain how I had spent my life becoming educated and building skills in my career. She said to me "you haven't been married not even once?!". The judgment on her face and the criticism she gave me was my last straw. I had enough. It never occurred to me to criticize her life choices but because our religion told us our only value could be found in being home married with kids, she easily belittled mine.
And plenty of us who are wives and SAHM mothers perfectly respect the choices of all women relating to careers, marriage, and children. Society needs us all to function well.
It amazes me how people attack her for not biologically having children, yet she has two bonus children from her husband. She’s Momala to them. Screw J.D. Vance.
I didn’t have children until my late 30s because I was busy building a successful and lucrative career. Hands down, being a mom changes who you are fundamentally. I am deeply grateful I got to do both. If I had to pick one, nothing is better than being a mom.
I think that most people nowadays will respect if a woman chooses not to have children, they are expensive, they are the responsibility of the family and their blood related persons as well as their loved ones, choosing to remain with no children is okay, choosing to have kids is okay, what we should practice as a society is respect. That will lead us to a better community and sense of comfort and love between one another.
It's so weird, the perspective that women who chose to focus on children are somehow doing more for the world over those who picked career. I'm unemployed and pregnant with my first. It's not going to disrupt my career because I never got around to starting one. I'm a total waste of potential! If I'd sorted my head out earlier, applied myself, and picked a direction, I could have done anything.
Please don’t see yourself that way. I understand what you mean and I’ve commented above but a child won’t fully take away your potential for other things in life. It may slow it down or change your path but if you want a career and meaning outside of motherhood you can still have that as a goal. To be clear, I think either or both are equally important to society.
JD Vance is a big time weirdo, but i do get the concept of childless people not having as much "skin in the game". It's not a new idea he's just an asshole about it. Part of why urbanists have argued that it is bad for all of the parents / families to leave cities is that people DO tend to become far more civically engaged once they have children. I actually left the city in mass (Somerville) with the least school aged children per capita, and the public resources like schools were in terrible shape. Most kf the population there is students or DINKs who had no idea. Like others commenting, they might say, we care deeply about education/climate change, etc, but couldn't actually tell you issues in their local district and don't do civic / volunteer work.
You are almost almost right. Yes people without children may not know/care about school quality for k12 but they do care about politics healthcare student debt safety justice and on and on-schools are not the only route to civic engagement. Maybe the issue is parents only care about their own kids
@@empresskeloayou are proving my point. Not caring about children's education is effectively not caring about the future. "We care about the student debt we already have, not the entire next generation".
@jcg03002 but so what if we don't care? I personally chose to not have children so I don't have to care about this (and a host of other things).But I do care about my friends children, the children in family and the children that I work with. And as a woman of color there are so many other things that I have to care or worry about that others don't and i assure they don't care. The point is we don't all have to care about the same issues and we all have our own burdens to bare. So if you choose to have children YOU also choose to deal the state of the world and society that you're placing them in.
I will say this. I find it almost impossible working for anyone man or woman without children. I find them to just not understand the dynamics of having to care for more than themselves, and often they are the the impossible bosses. That being said, I do agree the R party is being stupid and the comments are ridiculous.
I think it's more about the ability to use the children to keep their mother's more vulnerable and tied to the men than it is about it being "cheating". Some women might feel like it's cheating but with the men that feel like this it's about not having control and dominance over "their" women The #1 cause of death related to pregnancy in the US is murder by their partner with a firearm Pregnancy is a time of vulnerability and if women that don't want that are seen as unruley and they find that unacceptable Dobbs overturning Roe is an example of men and one woman wanting to reenforce the patriarchy that actually hurts everyone Barrett said that women are not without political power, which is kinda true but not as true as she made it sound. And she also said something to the affect of that women that don't want children need to feed adoption agencies. Totally missing that adoption is not the answer for not wanting to be pregnant (a health negative medical condition regardless of how normal it is) it's an option for not wanting to be a parent Sorry for the semi tangent But what you're talking about and what's happening to pregnant people in states with draconian bans are related They want women and anyone else capable of pregnancy to be vulnerable and not have complete agency over their own lives and bodies Let's not forget that marital sa wasn't widely illegal in the US until 31 years ago 16ish years before that women had no legal protections against discrimination when it came to credit cards and bank accounts, and plenty of banks and most credit card companies wouldn't permit women their own accounts and cards without the permission of their husbands, fathers, or oldest brother even if that brother was younger than the woman. A woman's son was the person to get permission if she had no other living male relatives They don't think of it as cheating in the way you mean. They think of it as cheating because they don't want anyone but cis het white men with money and property to make decisions and anyone not having biological children when they are physically capable is cheating them out of going back to cis het white men having all the power Women not having kids is seen as subversive and "unnatural". And women that feel this way usually already have kids and feel like other women not having children undermines their decision to have children or are jealous that they didn't real have that choice and wish they weren't mothers I get your thinking here, but I think you are a little bit off with the actual reason people like Vance and Barrett are the way they are
Don't take it personally. In politics, the job is to make the opposition's candidate look incompetent at running a country. They will pick anything to attack on, just the nature of the game (even when it's made up)
I'm so tired of the US political discourse, it's everywhere on youtube. But Vance is correct about me, I don't and won't have children, and I do enjoy living with 'Après moi, le déluge' outlook.
They can't handle people who don't fit into their restrictive ideals. Plenty of us young people want to have children unfortunately having children has become a luxury. It would cheaper to buy a new gucci bag every year for 18 years.
Oh, but it is! At least if you see politics as the shifting of power in a certain direction - or in this case away from certain people. Child bearing is never about giving new life in the eyes of people like Vance - but getting the woman to be dependent on some man.
I honestly think it's just mommy issues. Anger that their own mother had a life, or wanted a life, that didn't totally revolve around them. Children basically go through the five stages of grief when they realize their mothers are separate beings and not available to them all the time. Healthy, mature adults have learned to accept this. These people are still stuck at denial, anger, and bargaining.
I am a mom of two and I never ever allow myself any comments on this topic. But I have this internal feeling that people without children are missing on life, missing on the greatest opportunity of their lives for happy joyful moments and most importantly are missing on the opportunity to grow personally into the best version of themselves. And I never tell them this of course, but I cannot help myself but have this inner understanding. It is not even an opinion, it comes from my guts and heart.
That is fine you feel this way as long as you don't impose it on others. I have 3 kids but don't feel the same as you. My stepmom was one of the most amazing people in my life and cares about my world more than anyone I know. His opinion is dangerous and he is in a position of power....that's the problem.
This sounds like extreme projection and regret on your front for having children. You don’t have an inherent “understanding” that everyone would be better off with kids. If everyone would be happier with children, children wouldn’t be killed, abused, molested or traumatized on a regular basis by their parents or guardians. You kids may not be mistreated, and that’s great, but MOST children have terrible parents no matter how you crumble the cookie. Every single child deserves parents that love them. But not every “parent” deserves to have a child.
This is how I feel about myself and my son whom I had when I was 20. I was engaged before becoming pregnant but no plans to start a family. I wanted to finish college first. I didn’t plan to be a mother so young but I wanted it and I grew into it well. I’ve loved motherhood. It was and is amazing. He’s 22 now and just moved out, so at 42 I am all done and now I’m the cool aunt to my 11 year old niece. But I can’t say that every parent I know has had the same experience I have. If you are a person that leans towards selfishness in my experience that doesn’t tend to go away and kids can lead to resentment or they experience slight neglect. If you are an unable to enforce boundaries, you’ll inadvertently over indulge your kids making them very spoiled and limiting their ability. That’s not the best for anyone and I’ve watched a lot of this happen with limited ability to change it. I can and do offer support but I can’t give any of those kids what they may fully need.
This type of calls need a speech moderator, where they help prevent the debaters from interrupting eachother. Lio is unbearable in this just Let Her Speak for more than 10 seconds PLEASE.
Valid opinion but I think this surface level. There is certain trust that is established when anyone is able to raise a family. We all are human with the same nature.
If you think having a family tends to make people more trustworthy, that’s great. Some people will agree, some people will disagree. But it’s obviously not the same as suggesting the only way to have a stake in the future is by having biological children.
I'm a man who doesn't have kids and probably never will. I could live another 50 years and I promise Vance I have a stake in the future too. I want a good future for other people's children as well because, which may come as a surprise to Vance, it's possible to care about things besides yourself.
Unless u only care bout ur cat n ur power grabbing....
Right, that's my game, too.
@@ariwl1 This! 👏🏾
@@theparodychannel7842 Well I don’t have any cats, so.…
Thank you, and it is great to have a choice and identify outside of having kids (or not). Women do not have this choice (yet). Our lives and bodies are still conditioned to focus on our parenthood status. There is a privilege a childless man has which is a freedom from the judgement that women have (that Chelsea is talking about).
Kamala and Chelsea out here with the cheat codes, and I’m here for it. It’s like the meme:
Boomers: “don’t have children you can’t afford”
Millennials: (choose not to have kids)
Boomers: “No NoT LiKe ThAt”
As a childfree, married dog lady, it also irks me that our choice not to have children is only acceptable to certain people if I'm focusing all my energy on my career instead (no one seems to care what my husband does with his time). A woman's existence isn't valid only if she devotes herself to work, domestic or for an employer.
I think it's weird to believe that you can only love and want someone to thrive if you've given birth to them. Some of the coolest, most engaged women in my childhood were not mothers, and therefore they had the time and energy to engage with children in their community in a deeper way. We ALWAYS thought they were so cool, and they were often the ones showing us interesting things, taking us hiking, indulging us when we wanted to show off our rooms, the fort we built, the berries we picked etc. Never mind the help they gave to parents by their willingness to take a gaggle of kids on some outing. My best friend's aunt took my friend on all sorts of cool bikepacking trips, to the women's soccer world cup where they met Mia Hamm etc etc. Even in our 30s, these women are still interested in our lives, great sounding boards, wonderful support.
This so much. My absolute favourite teachers and community leaders in charge of vartious activities when i was growing up were mostly women without children of their own. To me, it shows the very meaning of "it takes a village to raise a child". It's a beautiful division of care. But the men who have these sort of opinions on women are so often entrenched deep within individuialism that they can't even understand that.
(obviously i'm not saying women must partake in childcare to have value, but there is value in the women who dedicate their lives to helping raise other children).
I agree. My childfree aunt did as much or more for me as my drunk mother did.
“Sorry…should’ve built a better game” is honestly the hottest take on this yet!!!
There is also the fact that she is a stepmother so she is a parent or at the bare minimum participating in parenting. Which means the lack of value for Vance and people like him comes from her not having biological children of her own. He considers her failing at what he assumes to be her biological duty. This makes wonder if he feels similarly towards women who adopt or foster. Especially knowing his stance on IVF.
I've seen and heard too many people people on the right/religious/ conservative that don't view adoption, or even in-laws as "real" family compared to blood relatives. They genuinely think that only biological children matter. So yes, they have that fucked up mindset, hide it but it's only now being shown bit by bit.
Yes I wish she mentioned this.
This is absolutely true. The other, connected, thing that it implies is the requirement to 'settle'. I'm unmarried and childless, and I get flack for being unmarried, too. I think we're supposed to feel that we HAVE to marry, even if we don't meet a man who loves us or whom we love, because women need to be connected to a man. People are supposed to tie themselves, for life, to someone they don't really care for, and produce children with that person, despite not loving or even liking that person. It's obligatory, like taxes. The result is unwanted kids and miserable marriages, which is terribly sad.
I agree. I think it’s why so many are in crap marriages. At least their with someone. 🤷🏽♀️I’ve seen this misery up close in my own family, I’m good.
Plus why does a stranger not getting married or having kids bother them so much? Such weirdos!
But she does have children. If she plays the role of a mother in someone's life she is a mother. It doesn't matter wether or not she gave birth to them. If anything, taking in your husband's children and making them your family shows even more love and respect for children that just raising your own offspring
YES! Thank you for articulating this so clearly. You've put words to something that has bothered me for so long about this grading system that childless women are subjected to - even by other women!
^^^ this!!! Absolutely agree! Put words to my thoughts and feelings!
The whole “you’ll never love someone as much as a person you gave birth to” rhetoric such a slap in the face to so many women.
Yep and it also implies that all/most mothers actually love or want their children which we all know is a lie.
I still love myself more then my own child lol but my child is a very close second still so they would hate me 😂
@@markigirl2757 but that's exactly how it should be. You can't pour from an empty cup
Also really telling about how they feel about their co-parent …
I think it's a cruel lie. Children hear that and blame themselves - because their mothers gave them up for adoption, or worse, hurt them as a child. Imagine the person who experiences the "pinnacle" of human love, "something nobody else could EVER comprehend", and still gives that child up. The child is going to feel lacking - even though they are not and never have been.
1. You're gorgeous.
2. Thank you for your wisdom. I listened 50 times at least.
3. You even built Vances' educated wife up. 👏
I’m also convinced it’s at least partially them projecting because they can’t imagine carrying about someone that isn’t their offspring
Yes! He is trying to support this idea that only people with biological kids have a stake in the future. Vance, buddy, if you didn’t care about the future before you had kids, that’s a you thing! Your personal thoughts are not universal!
we should talk more about how for as long as recorded history emperors were hungry for tax payers and soldiers and therefore blackmailed and threatened all the women into striving toward marriage and babies. so we should definitely be kicking this disfunctional worldview in this overpopulated world where we live. i love kids but we should not damage our bodies for someone else's empire dream.
and instead of playing the 'how will we fund pensions' card to blackmail women about marriage and babies, we should instead turn our attention to robots and taxing away mega yachts.
Overpopulation is a myth, though.
Societies that stop reproducing, tend to quickly fall apart and be replaced by those who do. The west is playing a dangerous game.
Totally agree! 👏 I get a kick out of it now as the more it bothers those types of men/women the more I know it's because I'm killing it and they feel triggered by my joy & contentedness because there's major aspects of their life they're resentful about, not my problem - it's basically misogynistic projection
Yes, because wiving and mothering are our only “purpose”. Everything else is hobbying and horseplay, which is why if you skip over your “purpose” to do men’s “work”, you’re not only broken, you’re irresponsible to the point of being bad for society.
Wild stuff
Is that a problem?
I think it's a lack of empathy. The type of person who has only ever cared about themselves has a kid and the feeling of caring so much for their child hits them way harder than it does for other parents. They just can't imagine caring about other people and only have one lived example themselves which is caring about their own children.
Great insight. I think you’re on to something.
That’s often tied with the concept of “owning” one’s children. My kids are my property so I care for them like I care for my business or house. Especially if the child is female (look no further than purity culture and the father giving away his daughter/ property at the altar)
In light of the mean girl to boy mom pipeline, this is so true 😂😂🤣
Attacking childless women is sick. It can be a choice, but it might not be!! You don't know, so you don't get to ask!!!! You don't get to talk about. Full stop.
And women have value in ourselves, not just who we are related to.
Not bothered! I knew at 15. After years looking to date still not bothered. And now going through menopause still not bothered. They whine too much.
Please do a pt. 2 where you explain to the weirdos in these comments (and this country) that a person without kids absolutely has a stake in the future of the country.
It is kind of pointless, they don't listen to reason (just rhetoric) which is so scary, no matter how articulately and effectively Chelsea makes her point :(
They are resentful and most likely regret having kids or the fact they want that but can’t. Jealous people are a disease smh
They DID build an excellent game. It lasted 6,000 years, give or take.
We finally cracked the code by catching up and overtaking their game, praise the Ancestresses.
Now they want to "move the goal posts" yet again.
But we're not done.
The Crones haven't even begun to rise yet.
I'm waiting, listening, for the sound of the Old Women who will bring about the end of the Game at last, cut the cord, dance in the flames, and cackle once again as in the ancient days.
They will finish the Patriarchy.
Totally untrue. There are many non-Christian cultures that honored women, let them fight along men, were successful farmers, leaders, warriors and the like. Christianity, Judaism and Islam (abrahamic religions) did not always exist and are not the only religions or cultures that have ever existed. Anthropologists have found female viking warrior remains. Egyptians and China had female rulers. Many pagans of many eras had freedom of sexuality and . Native American women were revered as bringers of life, and treated with equal rights. Personal unpopular opinion-Christianity is root of all evil, violence and 💩 backbone to modern male politicians trying to go backwards in time to rob women of their rights and power.
Do you think the world and/or humans is only 6000 years old?
@@umbrac6148 Patriarchy is. If even that much.
@@chelseabunker2391 I couldn't agree more with what you say, but I don't quite get this as a response to the above poster. They didn't mention christianity?
He he he he.... the old witch cackled while stirring her brew
As a man, I will always stand up for women. That’s regardless of them choosing to be a wife or mother or a strong, independent, child-free woman. Weak men and incels are threatened by strong women.
It works because Aragorn lead the Army of the dead after flashing Anduril.
this is mindblowing!! makes so much sense of all the highkey sacrificial lamb attitudes that said parents have around their children and nuclear families, like they're only half there and their children are shields and shackles. i see this a lot too in consevative poc families which alienates a lot of their kids (left-leaning) from their parents
And after you become a devoted wife and mother, then there is such a lack of respect for that choice, too, because men with the mindset of J. Dasdardly Vance think you’re not working, deserve no respect or compensation for the time you devoted to raising children. It’s a no-win situation with such men and their superior attitudes. Basically, all of these views are mechanisms for control.
I tried the wife bit (unsuccessfully for nearly 10 years) and I admit I do have a grown up child in their 30s. But there's no way on God's little green earth, that I have ever thought that makes me a better or more virtuous human. It's the 21st century not the 1500s or the 1700s, who thinks like that anymore, heaven help us!
They can’t control woman anymore then they can control a cat. So the treat both with malice
Love this!!
This is too true!
Lol soo true! You can't control a cat, you have to earn their respect and trust and they don't just follow. Definitely a link here with why some people hate women who don't follow their rules about roles for women.
Happily married Catmother here. We both could not be more happy with our furbabies
Same, I have a cat named Minina, and she’s like a daughter to me. I love her ❤❤
My uncle was recently telling me about how his wife needs to accept that "there are other people out there." Yes, he's cheating. His wife is a college educated woman who stayed home with kids. At some point, her mother moved in and quickly saw the "cachos (horns)" growing out of her head and started "poising" her against my uncle. At which point, my uncle threatened to leave and that he would be leaving with his credit cards. A few years ago he recounted a similar story involving my grandfather, his father, and how my grandfather was basically financially abusing my grandmother, his mother, and how my grandmother had saved enough to leave and how he convinced her to return. He, of course, doesn't see the abuse of it, so no surprise, he is doing the same to his wife. And it's really the same. My grandfather, rip, had a whole other family who thankfully had enough shame to never show their faces. Sorry for the rant, but this is a reminder to women that being cat ladies is more than ok.
I'm not single but I have a cat, stay proud 😊 solidarity ❤️
I like this video a lot. You're so good at making your points and bringing the viewer right alongside you.
Fortunately, I'm in academia and have a PhD in my field. Being single and child free seems to be more common among women in this position and very few question it. I think we're more likely to face stigma for having a PhD and accused of thinking we're "better than" others. Really, I just went to school for a really long time and wrote a really long paper on a topic no one cares about. And, as a person who leans conservative, I think Vance stepped over a line for a lot women of all politcal views.
It's disgusting that with all the progress human civilization has made over the past five or so millenia, that were now being told the only accomplishment that matters is passing on our genes.
Omg I know right!
...wats the point if we don't make life better for the children though?
@@theparodychannel7842 by helping them on education, environment, resources, etc, whether we have kids or not.
"you can do your little Barbie job after motherhood..."
Barbie did whatever job wanted & excels at everything she touches w/o having children & this shows women can do it too!
This is so interesting. Somehow I internalized the opposite message. I am a women, and I’ve internalized the idea that my husband and I are expected to have kids only after I’ve proven my worthiness with an impressive career
I can see that. I know people who have done just that. I did everything out of order. Had a kid. Finished college when he was 6. Stayed home at that time. He’s just moved out at 22 after obtaining 2 degrees and it’s a strange feeling. I have felt aware of potential negative judgement from others and my childhood nuclear family wasn’t overly successful. Out of 4 siblings I’m the only one that finished a 4 year degree (in nearly 8 years 😂) and my parents didn’t have degrees. Now my mother divorced when I was 19 and did remarry a person with a masters in chemical engineering and his side of the family has some impressive young (30 and under) adults in it. My own son is going for a PhD currently with no immediate plans for family and a child although that has not come from me. I’ve encouraged looking for someone now that he’s finished his undergrad degrees bc I don’t actually think he and his equally successful future wife would have to wait.
And throw people with infertility issues that desperately want to have kids into the mix. It’s a hard path to be on and they have “no stake” under this ideology.
I "want" to say that idiots like Vance would be understanding, but I get the feeling they'll say infertile men are not really "men" and infertile women are good for having sex with but not marrying.
For me I always loved the idea of caring for others children like the cool aunt , or being someone a person could come to and I would always have a room open .
My dad and brother are chronically ill and I don’t think I will ever want kids. Who am I to gamble someone’s life if there’s a chance they could have a lifelong illness like my dad or brother? I also am a health care worker and have seen HORRIBLE accidents, children being abused, death…a lot of death. And I just could not subject someone to that when there are already thousands of children already on earth who don’t have a mommy or daddy. I would love to foster someday but I just feel like it’s ethically wrong for me to have a child. Other people can do what they want but I don’t think it’s for me. And as a woman who has worked so hard for the awesome career I have, I can say I feel whole, fulfilled, and like I contribute to others lives.
I don't think it's even as complex or conditional as that. There's simply still a segment of society who want women back in the subservient baby machine role they occupied prior to the mid-20th century.
My dad belongs to this demographic. For them, women are supposed to be mothers. That's their primary job. Not being a mom means you aren't a complete woman.
They see it as cheating. Like the same way they see guys who don't have jobs and live off their parents. Like you're extending adolescence to old age.
It's their reality. They won't change it. They think God made it that way.
I only ever wanted children. It’s hard to find a partner who wants the same thing (and also is not a bum).
To be fair, he had the same complaint about childless male politicians. He's equal opportunity about his opinion that people with children are more likely to care deeper about long-term impacts of policies. Whether one agrees with that premise is another issue.
To be fair, if he dresses his possibly equal opportunity criticism in sexist language, it can still be sexist. His original comment talks about the “childless cat lady” and specifically named 2 women as examples. (And, sure, he also named a man, but I wouldn’t count homophobia as a particularly good defense against sexism.) He supported his argument in a sexist way and hasn’t done much to change that impression he made.
priests, nuns don't have kids of their own yet a lot of them are doing good work to make the world better. selflessly. one can choose distortion to justify pre existing misery.
It's a major reason I left my religion. I never wanted kids and was judged for choosing a career instead. I sat down next to a women who I said hi to and she was holding a cute little baby. We talked and I asked her about her kids. She said she had five and all from different men. I said how awesome her kiddos were and how cute. She then asked me if I was married with kids. I said no and began to explain how I had spent my life becoming educated and building skills in my career. She said to me "you haven't been married not even once?!". The judgment on her face and the criticism she gave me was my last straw. I had enough. It never occurred to me to criticize her life choices but because our religion told us our only value could be found in being home married with kids, she easily belittled mine.
And plenty of us who are wives and SAHM mothers perfectly respect the choices of all women relating to careers, marriage, and children. Society needs us all to function well.
It amazes me how people attack her for not biologically having children, yet she has two bonus children from her husband. She’s Momala to them. Screw J.D. Vance.
Yep! We finally cracked this patriarchal game🙌
I didn’t have children until my late 30s because I was busy building a successful and lucrative career. Hands down, being a mom changes who you are fundamentally. I am deeply grateful I got to do both. If I had to pick one, nothing is better than being a mom.
"you're not playing the game by the rules they've established for you and they hate it."
For me it shows he's angry that he can't manipulate me into thinking he loves me so much that he wants to have a family lol
I think that most people nowadays will respect if a woman chooses not to have children, they are expensive, they are the responsibility of the family and their blood related persons as well as their loved ones, choosing to remain with no children is okay, choosing to have kids is okay, what we should practice as a society is respect. That will lead us to a better community and sense of comfort and love between one another.
Well said!
It's so weird, the perspective that women who chose to focus on children are somehow doing more for the world over those who picked career. I'm unemployed and pregnant with my first. It's not going to disrupt my career because I never got around to starting one. I'm a total waste of potential!
If I'd sorted my head out earlier, applied myself, and picked a direction, I could have done anything.
Please don’t see yourself that way. I understand what you mean and I’ve commented above but a child won’t fully take away your potential for other things in life. It may slow it down or change your path but if you want a career and meaning outside of motherhood you can still have that as a goal. To be clear, I think either or both are equally important to society.
As a lesbian, I deeply appreciate this video Chelsea -- thank you!
Well said lass!! ❤
More than that, this is about owning women as chattels
JD Vance is a big time weirdo, but i do get the concept of childless people not having as much "skin in the game". It's not a new idea he's just an asshole about it.
Part of why urbanists have argued that it is bad for all of the parents / families to leave cities is that people DO tend to become far more civically engaged once they have children. I actually left the city in mass (Somerville) with the least school aged children per capita, and the public resources like schools were in terrible shape. Most kf the population there is students or DINKs who had no idea. Like others commenting, they might say, we care deeply about education/climate change, etc, but couldn't actually tell you issues in their local district and don't do civic / volunteer work.
You are almost almost right. Yes people without children may not know/care about school quality for k12 but they do care about politics healthcare student debt safety justice and on and on-schools are not the only route to civic engagement. Maybe the issue is parents only care about their own kids
@@empresskeloayou are proving my point. Not caring about children's education is effectively not caring about the future.
"We care about the student debt we already have, not the entire next generation".
@@jcg03002yeah but what about the environment? The recourses? Education is not the only thing bruh
Not everyone should be parent tho
@jcg03002 but so what if we don't care? I personally chose to not have children so I don't have to care about this (and a host of other things).But I do care about my friends children, the children in family and the children that I work with. And as a woman of color there are so many other things that I have to care or worry about that others don't and i assure they don't care. The point is we don't all have to care about the same issues and we all have our own burdens to bare. So if you choose to have children YOU also choose to deal the state of the world and society that you're placing them in.
Love this thank you
Love thiss ❤
It's hard to say what other people's motives are as one doesn't really know what goes on in other people's heads.
Love this!
On target again and again ❤️🔥
AMAZING observation
I will say this. I find it almost impossible working for anyone man or woman without children. I find them to just not understand the dynamics of having to care for more than themselves, and often they are the the impossible bosses.
That being said, I do agree the R party is being stupid and the comments are ridiculous.
Hi daughter is literally 2 years old tho, why speak on her prospective reproduction. That's vile
I think it's more about the ability to use the children to keep their mother's more vulnerable and tied to the men than it is about it being "cheating". Some women might feel like it's cheating but with the men that feel like this it's about not having control and dominance over "their" women
The #1 cause of death related to pregnancy in the US is murder by their partner with a firearm
Pregnancy is a time of vulnerability and if women that don't want that are seen as unruley and they find that unacceptable
Dobbs overturning Roe is an example of men and one woman wanting to reenforce the patriarchy that actually hurts everyone
Barrett said that women are not without political power, which is kinda true but not as true as she made it sound. And she also said something to the affect of that women that don't want children need to feed adoption agencies. Totally missing that adoption is not the answer for not wanting to be pregnant (a health negative medical condition regardless of how normal it is) it's an option for not wanting to be a parent
Sorry for the semi tangent
But what you're talking about and what's happening to pregnant people in states with draconian bans are related
They want women and anyone else capable of pregnancy to be vulnerable and not have complete agency over their own lives and bodies
Let's not forget that marital sa wasn't widely illegal in the US until 31 years ago
16ish years before that women had no legal protections against discrimination when it came to credit cards and bank accounts, and plenty of banks and most credit card companies wouldn't permit women their own accounts and cards without the permission of their husbands, fathers, or oldest brother even if that brother was younger than the woman. A woman's son was the person to get permission if she had no other living male relatives
They don't think of it as cheating in the way you mean. They think of it as cheating because they don't want anyone but cis het white men with money and property to make decisions and anyone not having biological children when they are physically capable is cheating them out of going back to cis het white men having all the power
Women not having kids is seen as subversive and "unnatural". And women that feel this way usually already have kids and feel like other women not having children undermines their decision to have children or are jealous that they didn't real have that choice and wish they weren't mothers
I get your thinking here, but I think you are a little bit off with the actual reason people like Vance and Barrett are the way they are
chelsea with the unimpeachable analysis YET AGAIN good morning !!!
Rethuglicans project.
I think big Sean wants to get married. I think it’s Jhene. Don’t forget Jhene went thru hell getting divorced.
Don't take it personally. In politics, the job is to make the opposition's candidate look incompetent at running a country. They will pick anything to attack on, just the nature of the game (even when it's made up)
Thank you!!!!! ❤
Seems to me that's what they're trying to do still. And it doesn't seem to be any better with either side, unfortunately.
I'm so tired of the US political discourse, it's everywhere on youtube. But Vance is correct about me, I don't and won't have children, and I do enjoy living with 'Après moi, le déluge' outlook.
Both my daughters are childless by choice but it's their decision so I certainly don't get on their case about it !
Your hairstyle looks great, what is that style called? Want to ask my stylist for this
A short bob
They can't handle people who don't fit into their restrictive ideals.
Plenty of us young people want to have children unfortunately having children has become a luxury. It would cheaper to buy a new gucci bag every year for 18 years.
Thank you for saying this ❤
This is so true!!!
So confused why Vance's wife stays with him
oh have you been watching House of the Dragon too?
Oh not u too😢
Brava !
why cant american politics not just be about policies. I pity you guys
Oh, but it is! At least if you see politics as the shifting of power in a certain direction - or in this case away from certain people. Child bearing is never about giving new life in the eyes of people like Vance - but getting the woman to be dependent on some man.
@@charis6311
ah I forgot that the place that sent people to the moon still has sexism issues.
I honestly think it's just mommy issues. Anger that their own mother had a life, or wanted a life, that didn't totally revolve around them. Children basically go through the five stages of grief when they realize their mothers are separate beings and not available to them all the time. Healthy, mature adults have learned to accept this. These people are still stuck at denial, anger, and bargaining.
Oh no another tds case 😓😓😓
This is so on the nose
Interesting!
💯💯💯
Exactly....
I am a mom of two and I never ever allow myself any comments on this topic. But I have this internal feeling that people without children are missing on life, missing on the greatest opportunity of their lives for happy joyful moments and most importantly are missing on the opportunity to grow personally into the best version of themselves. And I never tell them this of course, but I cannot help myself but have this inner understanding. It is not even an opinion, it comes from my guts and heart.
That is fine you feel this way as long as you don't impose it on others. I have 3 kids but don't feel the same as you. My stepmom was one of the most amazing people in my life and cares about my world more than anyone I know. His opinion is dangerous and he is in a position of power....that's the problem.
This sounds like extreme projection and regret on your front for having children. You don’t have an inherent “understanding” that everyone would be better off with kids. If everyone would be happier with children, children wouldn’t be killed, abused, molested or traumatized on a regular basis by their parents or guardians. You kids may not be mistreated, and that’s great, but MOST children have terrible parents no matter how you crumble the cookie.
Every single child deserves parents that love them. But not every “parent” deserves to have a child.
This is how I feel about myself and my son whom I had when I was 20. I was engaged before becoming pregnant but no plans to start a family. I wanted to finish college first. I didn’t plan to be a mother so young but I wanted it and I grew into it well. I’ve loved motherhood. It was and is amazing. He’s 22 now and just moved out, so at 42 I am all done and now I’m the cool aunt to my 11 year old niece. But I can’t say that every parent I know has had the same experience I have. If you are a person that leans towards selfishness in my experience that doesn’t tend to go away and kids can lead to resentment or they experience slight neglect. If you are an unable to enforce boundaries, you’ll inadvertently over indulge your kids making them very spoiled and limiting their ability. That’s not the best for anyone and I’ve watched a lot of this happen with limited ability to change it. I can and do offer support but I can’t give any of those kids what they may fully need.
LOL 😂
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Where did you get that brush?
👌🏽
boost
This type of calls need a speech moderator, where they help prevent the debaters from interrupting eachother. Lio is unbearable in this just Let Her Speak for more than 10 seconds PLEASE.
Someone got a lot of sun--unlike those wife-moms.
👏👏👏🤜🙌🫶❤
Her glasses are horrible. I can’t take her seriously when I know she saw what those looked like and thought, “these are great glasses.”
Perhaps she does not value the opinion of those who think more about glasses than the human being and arguments being made. Why would she?
Oh so that’s what we got from this huh… okay 😒
Valid opinion but I think this surface level. There is certain trust that is established when anyone is able to raise a family. We all are human with the same nature.
If you think having a family tends to make people more trustworthy, that’s great. Some people will agree, some people will disagree. But it’s obviously not the same as suggesting the only way to have a stake in the future is by having biological children.