Hey guys, sorry if this video took a while, I've been through a lot of script rewrites and technical problems in general. Anyways, thank you for the support over the last video, reaching 344 subs and 11k views in just 4 months is amazing to me, so thank you all again for the support. Aaaand since I kept you waiting for 4 months for this video to come out, here's a little hint of what the next video is about: "Did you get a whoppa?"
It's so nice to see a new video coming from you! I haven't had first had experience of this because any enemy pyro I play against either forgets that they have anything but the flamethrower or just uses airblast all the time. That second one might be because I main trooper/annihilator...
Found this video 8 months after it was posted. I think the axtinguisher was perfectly fine as it was. It's received a nerf to its deploy speed and damage as of now (it deals 168 damage max), but even without it, I wouldn't call it unbalanced in the slightest. Your notion of the "on miss: hit yourself" stat being an upside rather than a downside is something I completely disagree with. If you miss a target you're trying to kill, you're going to die. Your target is no longer on fire, you've just taken 49 damage, and in order to set the enemy on fire once again, you have to switch back to your primary, which will take longer to do due to the holster speed penalty. The weapon is balanced around the fact that missing with it is incredibly punishing, and you have to be absolutely sure that you'll connect the swing, unless you want to risk dying. It's also a melee weapon, meaning it can be easily countered by being aware of the arsonist and staying out of their melee range. This is only really hard to do if you're slower than them and/or stuck in a tight space. Even then, they're likely to kill you regardless if they just kept W+M1ing with the flamethrower. Calling the axtinguisher "just W+M1" is the same as calling Anniknight "just W+M1." Another thing balancing the axtinguisher is that it just, isn't another melee. By using the axtinguisher, you miss out on the mobility from the escapist's escapade, the self sustain of the mending mallet or improvised innovator, or the supportive capabilities from the homewrecker or stock. The axtinguisher focuses on combat, where most of arson's other melees focus on utility. It's a good tradeoff in my eyes. Nowadays, I don't think there's any reason to use the axtinguisher. The only real way you'd get a kill with it is if you somehow managed to light and axe someone who was unaware of you the whole time. The deploy speed penalty completely neuters the weapon to me. A lot of the time, that time where I'm deploying the weapon could have been spent spewing more flames or filling them with more shotgun rounds, then the second the weapon gets out, they're out of melee range, and I die trying to switch to a weapon I can actually hurt them with. In most cases I'd rather just use any other melee.
I’ve never seen the axtingusher as a problem. Arsonists need to get close to people and swing his melee( a risky play) to deal any significant damage on them. Only sometimes when the arsonists is close to you, then it will probably an instant win button if they just don’t miss. On hit: Deal damage to yourself can be an instant death sometimes too. I know arsonist is a close range specialist and this could be deadly but at the same time, if you’re fighting an arsonist, you should stay away from them when you can. Maybe axtingusher arsonists that I run into just suck and don’t know how to use it. I can agree that it’s sometimes annoying when you get one shotted by a arsonist.
4:04 My guess is that the classes who use it have insane mobility (Annil has sticky jumping and Trooper has rocket jumping) This means that they can fly across the map, instantly kill anything short of a trooper (pre-nerf market gardener) and get away safely. The arsonist, on the other hand, has average mobility (Limited to detonator jumps which do self damage, Axtinguiser misses that are only vertical and do self damage, and airblasted explosives. (Escapist's excapade is excluded because axtinguiser is the focus) This KINDA makes it more balanced, since anybody who can hit their shots and keep their distance can shut you down once you reach them, and you dont have a lot of safe options to escape. Also, there is a little bit of swing timing since missing can kinda sorta mess everything up Edit: You guys make a good point. Arsonist is already close range class and yada yada. Makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
I understand that annihilator and trooper have insane mobility but that mobility is used to perform their high damage dealing melee swing. Arsonist performs their high damage melee attack by swinging at an enemy, which if they are able to be set alight by your flamethrower, are also most likely in melee range I feel like to make the axtinguisher more balanced, it should have a slower holster speed but do more damage the less time the afterburn has lasted. There would have to be some change to make this not pair well with the degreaser or a degreaser nerf in general, not to make this change busted.
But keep in mind that arsonist is already a close range combat class and this weapon just makes him better at it without any downside. Trooper and Annihilator also have to deal self damage to use the market gardener and shock and awe properly (AND I know that they can equip the rocket or sticky jumper, but that makes them more vulnerable after landing a hit as they are defenseless with no primary). The HUGE mobility they have is also countered by their predictable movement (strafing is not as unpredictable as a flanker changing directions constantly) which means you can counter them by just shoting them in mid air and ruining their momentum (aka their whole existance) with the knockback (also keep in mind both, the market gardener and shock and awe, have knockback vulnerability which ACTUALLY affect the weapon's performance). So the mobilty is not that big of a deal to compare it with the axetinguisher.
You are right on so many things. I wanted to talk about this too, glad someone made a video about it. The axetinguisher rewards way too much compared to its downsides. The knockback vulnerability is barely notizable as you only deploy it for half a second for the swing and then swap back with the extra switch speed some weapons provide (which also nulify the slower holster speed). The damage penalty is nulified by the mini-crit (from 48 to 67-168) with the afterburn bonus. (You miscalculated this, but I understand it is hard to do so as the fire damage stacks) I agree with most of those balance changes although I would give more knockback vulnerability (around 50%) to make the arsonist think more when to use it (35% feels almost the same) and a general slower switch speed instead of only deploy so you would be better using it on 1v1 fights/picks rather than on big crouds. Probably an upside I would add to this would be "On mini-crit hit: Gain a speed buff" instead of "On kill" as with these changes this stat would rarely come into play.
now, im 7 months later and i they nerfed the damage, added a negative deploy speed. sort of fixing it. cause when i use it, i can't seem to kill a lightclass. it does like 120 damage then the afterburn stops, so yea kinda fixed
Either that nerf, or they can add a cooldown to when it's available kinda like the icicle since even pyro without a melee is a good already class in close quarters combat. This way the last finisher of the axetinguisher should be more reliant on it's speed boost as well.
Nice video overall but the audio seems a bit low, i have to have almost max volume with my headphones to hear But otherwise the audio is good Its been a while since i saw the last video but i think it was the same there
honestly, while i think i understand why, since on paper up to 150-160 damage due to afterburn looks powerful, you could argue that having 94 damage would cause the same, unless you want to give this the ability to see enemy health. and giving a deploy speed penalty, although maybe in the right tracks just seem counterintuitive with its purpose? sure it gives the enemy ample time to react but it makes the axe feel worse in general. and dont forget 94 damage is basically flare gun and meatshot territory, why remove afterburn when you could use both and keep afterburn. maybe there are intricacies i dont know between actual tf2 and tc2, i have rarely played tc2 now and my time is mostly spent on soldier. but the current iteration is arguably the best(atleast in tf2), because it atleast unlocks creativity with afterburn prolonging weapons without it being too gimmicky. while having damage in the middle of one shotting everyone if a flame particle hits you ONCE, or practically outclassed by shotguns and flares
I actually used to be a Combo Arsonist, Degreaser, the Death Shotgun whatever its called and the Axetinguisher. Nowadays I go pybro or stock with the sign and secondary of choice
I still cant understand why it is overpowered. Yes, it have -25% dmg than TF2's -33% dmg, but it still is balanced, cuz u need at first deal dmg with fire, than with flare gun (or Detonator), and then attack with Axtinquisher to kill enemy. However, with that tactic you have 47% chance to kill Brute, before he kills you. This is why you need to make combo fast, very fast.
Weird how it practically has the same stats as the tf2 axtinguisher with one less downside yet it's considered a very skilled and balanced weapon in pyro's kit
@@switZ7Q not just that melee hits can have extreme jack this is why I think tc2 demoknight needed to be nerfed whereas tf2 demoknight is perfectly fine
i don't know it feels quite balanced cause mainly I just shoot them sure you might die once or twice but you're not god you will inevitably die in-game the weapon itself requires skill from timing and positioning when you miss you not only take 50 damage and the target is extinguished leaving you for dead I think the axe is balanced
when i see someone using this darn axe im alweys saying in chat "Nooooo!1!! you cant just put people on fire and then hit them with funky yellow axe!!11!!" and they alweys respond with "haha funny axe goes brrrrrrr"
as an old tc2 player,the part about the caber and shovel are too true.Caber was the most easy weapon to use in the game,crits and explo-dmg,its too sweat.
I did test it several times using the axtinguisher against a pocketed brute and, after a few tests, I got my answer on how does the stat work. Basically, as soon as your target is on fire, it starts with 94 dmg, but then when you wait 2 seconds, the game multiplies that 94 dmg by those 2 seconds, giving us 188-9 dmg. Meanwhile when you wait 3 seconds it multiplies 94 by 3, giving us 282 dmg. This also counts for milli seconds aswell, if we wait something like 1,44 seconds, then 94 gets multiplied by 1,44, giving us 135 dmg (this explains how sometimes the weapon does a little more than 94 dmg if you do a quick combo with it). The max amount of dmg is presumed to be 350, but we're still not sure about it.
@@TadofSalt I was close on getting 350 dmg, if we apply the same method, waiting 3,72 seconds gives 349 dmg (94 × 3,72). That's the highest amount of dmg we've got after several tests. So it's presumed the max dmg is 349/350
@@TadofSalt not sure if we would ever see that due to that after burn wont really ever be that long, but hey if the lantern lighter got rereleased maybe we could try to get some high numbers
I agree,but I think you missed that it cannot use the gimmick against Arsonists, because they cannot be hurt by After Burn. (Still agree it's OP as Frick)
Not really, the gimmick of the axtinguisher can also be used against arsonist if you're quick enough since arsonists can be turned on fire for just a split second. (this also count for weapons that should disable afterburn like the Turtle Rock and the Icicle)
![[TC2] Is the Cold Shoulder THAT BAD?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uzmcjSLn674/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TC2] Is the Cold Shoulder THAT BAD?](/img/tr.png)
![[TC2] The UNDERESTIMATED power of the Sub Shotgun](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZR5QF3Dbu_s/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey guys, sorry if this video took a while, I've been through a lot of script rewrites and technical problems in general. Anyways, thank you for the support over the last video, reaching 344 subs and 11k views in just 4 months is amazing to me, so thank you all again for the support.
Aaaand since I kept you waiting for 4 months for this video to come out, here's a little hint of what the next video is about: "Did you get a whoppa?"
I immediately thought of brash burger like the burger king whopper
@@Gladius_S yes
ok
Imagine if the lantern lighter still existed then the axtinguisher would be more broken
as a tf2 player getting used to tc2 mechanics this helps a lot lmao, great video my guy
It's so nice to see a new video coming from you! I haven't had first had experience of this because any enemy pyro I play against either forgets that they have anything but the flamethrower or just uses airblast all the time. That second one might be because I main trooper/annihilator...
Found this video 8 months after it was posted.
I think the axtinguisher was perfectly fine as it was. It's received a nerf to its deploy speed and damage as of now (it deals 168 damage max), but even without it, I wouldn't call it unbalanced in the slightest. Your notion of the "on miss: hit yourself" stat being an upside rather than a downside is something I completely disagree with. If you miss a target you're trying to kill, you're going to die. Your target is no longer on fire, you've just taken 49 damage, and in order to set the enemy on fire once again, you have to switch back to your primary, which will take longer to do due to the holster speed penalty. The weapon is balanced around the fact that missing with it is incredibly punishing, and you have to be absolutely sure that you'll connect the swing, unless you want to risk dying. It's also a melee weapon, meaning it can be easily countered by being aware of the arsonist and staying out of their melee range. This is only really hard to do if you're slower than them and/or stuck in a tight space. Even then, they're likely to kill you regardless if they just kept W+M1ing with the flamethrower. Calling the axtinguisher "just W+M1" is the same as calling Anniknight "just W+M1."
Another thing balancing the axtinguisher is that it just, isn't another melee. By using the axtinguisher, you miss out on the mobility from the escapist's escapade, the self sustain of the mending mallet or improvised innovator, or the supportive capabilities from the homewrecker or stock. The axtinguisher focuses on combat, where most of arson's other melees focus on utility. It's a good tradeoff in my eyes. Nowadays, I don't think there's any reason to use the axtinguisher. The only real way you'd get a kill with it is if you somehow managed to light and axe someone who was unaware of you the whole time. The deploy speed penalty completely neuters the weapon to me. A lot of the time, that time where I'm deploying the weapon could have been spent spewing more flames or filling them with more shotgun rounds, then the second the weapon gets out, they're out of melee range, and I die trying to switch to a weapon I can actually hurt them with. In most cases I'd rather just use any other melee.
I’ve never seen the axtingusher as a problem. Arsonists need to get close to people and swing his melee( a risky play) to deal any significant damage on them. Only sometimes when the arsonists is close to you, then it will probably an instant win button if they just don’t miss. On hit: Deal damage to yourself can be an instant death sometimes too. I know arsonist is a close range specialist and this could be deadly but at the same time, if you’re fighting an arsonist, you should stay away from them when you can. Maybe axtingusher arsonists that I run into just suck and don’t know how to use it. I can agree that it’s sometimes annoying when you get one shotted by a arsonist.
4:04
My guess is that the classes who use it have insane mobility (Annil has sticky jumping and Trooper has rocket jumping)
This means that they can fly across the map, instantly kill anything short of a trooper (pre-nerf market gardener) and get away safely.
The arsonist, on the other hand, has average mobility (Limited to detonator jumps which do self damage, Axtinguiser misses that are only vertical and do self damage, and airblasted explosives. (Escapist's excapade is excluded because axtinguiser is the focus)
This KINDA makes it more balanced, since anybody who can hit their shots and keep their distance can shut you down once you reach them, and you dont have a lot of safe options to escape.
Also, there is a little bit of swing timing since missing can kinda sorta mess everything up
Edit: You guys make a good point. Arsonist is already close range class and yada yada. Makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
I understand that annihilator and trooper have insane mobility but that mobility is used to perform their high damage dealing melee swing. Arsonist performs their high damage melee attack by swinging at an enemy, which if they are able to be set alight by your flamethrower, are also most likely in melee range I feel like to make the axtinguisher more balanced, it should have a slower holster speed but do more damage the less time the afterburn has lasted. There would have to be some change to make this not pair well with the degreaser or a degreaser nerf in general, not to make this change busted.
But keep in mind that arsonist is already a close range combat class and this weapon just makes him better at it without any downside. Trooper and Annihilator also have to deal self damage to use the market gardener and shock and awe properly (AND I know that they can equip the rocket or sticky jumper, but that makes them more vulnerable after landing a hit as they are defenseless with no primary).
The HUGE mobility they have is also countered by their predictable movement (strafing is not as unpredictable as a flanker changing directions constantly) which means you can counter them by just shoting them in mid air and ruining their momentum (aka their whole existance) with the knockback (also keep in mind both, the market gardener and shock and awe, have knockback vulnerability which ACTUALLY affect the weapon's performance). So the mobilty is not that big of a deal to compare it with the axetinguisher.
Arsons mobility isn’t really average. It’s really high, if you can angle your detonator shot correctly, and thus flying much more.
You are right on so many things. I wanted to talk about this too, glad someone made a video about it.
The axetinguisher rewards way too much compared to its downsides.
The knockback vulnerability is barely notizable as you only deploy it for half a second for the swing and then swap back with the extra switch speed some weapons provide (which also nulify the slower holster speed).
The damage penalty is nulified by the mini-crit (from 48 to 67-168) with the afterburn bonus. (You miscalculated this, but I understand it is hard to do so as the fire damage stacks)
I agree with most of those balance changes although I would give more knockback vulnerability (around 50%) to make the arsonist think more when to use it (35% feels almost the same) and a general slower switch speed instead of only deploy so you would be better using it on 1v1 fights/picks rather than on big crouds. Probably an upside I would add to this would be "On mini-crit hit: Gain a speed buff" instead of "On kill" as with these changes this stat would rarely come into play.
This is when arsonist was good. Boy I miss that.
5:40 Thanks for the arsonist loadout idea
Me: searches for a tf2 video
RUclips: eh, close enough
I mean do u think the video is bad?
now, im 7 months later and i they nerfed the damage, added a negative deploy speed. sort of fixing it. cause when i use it, i can't seem to kill a lightclass. it does like 120 damage then the afterburn stops, so yea kinda fixed
Either that nerf, or they can add a cooldown to when it's available kinda like the icicle since even pyro without a melee is a good already class in close quarters combat. This way the last finisher of the axetinguisher should be more reliant on it's speed boost as well.
Nice video overall but the audio seems a bit low, i have to have almost max volume with my headphones to hear
But otherwise the audio is good
Its been a while since i saw the last video but i think it was the same there
Keep up good content bro!
finally, a video reviewing pain
wake up babe new dannst video
you can use detonator and axtinguisher to triple jump with self damage from both
truly a guide on how to be tc2 pro
4:30 Because going 400 miles an hour in the air out of people field of vision to deal enough damage to OHKO light classes is kinda bull?
Awesome video and awesome editing
As a pyro main in TF2 with 1400+ hours and has never played tc2 it's really funny to me to hear pyro being op lol
Nice vid!
Please make a vid on the unnecessary nerfing of the market garden I’m foaming from the mouth right now.
Axtinguisher axtiveishere viewer: that's the same
Since when was roblox tf2 a thing
For quite some time but just stick with tf2 in my opinion
honestly, while i think i understand why, since on paper up to 150-160 damage due to afterburn looks powerful, you could argue that having 94 damage would cause the same, unless you want to give this the ability to see enemy health. and giving a deploy speed penalty, although maybe in the right tracks just seem counterintuitive with its purpose? sure it gives the enemy ample time to react but it makes the axe feel worse in general. and dont forget 94 damage is basically flare gun and meatshot territory, why remove afterburn when you could use both and keep afterburn.
maybe there are intricacies i dont know between actual tf2 and tc2, i have rarely played tc2 now and my time is mostly spent on soldier. but the current iteration is arguably the best(atleast in tf2), because it atleast unlocks creativity with afterburn prolonging weapons without it being too gimmicky. while having damage in the middle of one shotting everyone if a flame particle hits you ONCE, or practically outclassed by shotguns and flares
I actually used to be a Combo Arsonist, Degreaser, the Death Shotgun whatever its called and the Axetinguisher. Nowadays I go pybro or stock with the sign and secondary of choice
I swear this guy is the tc2 version of soundsmith
Well
Minus the trolldier part.
make an epic tutorial on how to use the blood doctor
i think they should just give it a -50 damage penalty and give it crit to players(and also remove the incrased damage based on afterburn)
The axetinguisher isnt as bad as the M24why, since it takes a fair amount of skill to use effectively but i do fairly agree
YOU are tc2 steinful and that good
I still cant understand why it is overpowered. Yes, it have -25% dmg than TF2's -33% dmg, but it still is balanced, cuz u need at first deal dmg with fire, than with flare gun (or Detonator), and then attack with Axtinquisher to kill enemy. However, with that tactic you have 47% chance to kill Brute, before he kills you. This is why you need to make combo fast, very fast.
Weird how it practically has the same stats as the tf2 axtinguisher with one less downside yet it's considered a very skilled and balanced weapon in pyro's kit
Considering tf2 has a lot more janky melee mechanics then tc2 I think that definitely contributes to it
@@tsaralexis9459 teammates eating your melee hits is annoying at best. shouldnt be a big factor when it comes to how effective they are overall
@@switZ7Q not just that melee hits can have extreme jack this is why I think tc2 demoknight needed to be nerfed whereas tf2 demoknight is perfectly fine
@@tsaralexis9459every demoman in tc2 goes demoknight or half demoknight because of how broken it is
Well everyone’s lucky because I rarely bring out the axtinguisher
Whenever I watch a tc2 vid I just get angry (I’m a tf2 player)
i don't know it feels quite balanced cause mainly I just shoot them sure you might die once or twice but you're not god you will inevitably die in-game the weapon itself requires skill from timing and positioning when you miss you not only take 50 damage and the target is extinguished leaving you for dead I think the axe is balanced
when i see someone using this darn axe im alweys saying in chat
"Nooooo!1!! you cant just put people on fire and then hit them with funky yellow axe!!11!!"
and they alweys respond with
"haha funny axe goes brrrrrrr"
It's not ok you still got to hit an and the down sides are not bad
I preferred the old version, the 1000 degree axe
Why don't you make an dare video using trooper's worst rocket launcher and trying to get an 15 killstreak with it?
I'm using the interceptor, detonator and axtinguisher which is op as hell man 💀💀💀💀💀
oh, never knew you made videos
as an old tc2 player,the part about the caber and shovel are too true.Caber was the most
easy weapon to use in the game,crits and explo-dmg,its too sweat.
the axtinguisher is my favorite weapon in the game, it just produces dopamine. at the same time, i agree its totally unbalanced.
4:36 wait, i remember you when im playing tc2. My roblox display name is "Guest" btw. Because that, i subs your channel :D
tf2 m+w1 pyro vs tc2 w+m1 pyro
The devs must have not played TF2 back in 2011 lol
did u test that 2:05
I did test it several times using the axtinguisher against a pocketed brute and, after a few tests, I got my answer on how does the stat work.
Basically, as soon as your target is on fire, it starts with 94 dmg, but then when you wait 2 seconds, the game multiplies that 94 dmg by those 2 seconds, giving us 188-9 dmg. Meanwhile when you wait 3 seconds it multiplies 94 by 3, giving us 282 dmg. This also counts for milli seconds aswell, if we wait something like 1,44 seconds, then 94 gets multiplied by 1,44, giving us 135 dmg (this explains how sometimes the weapon does a little more than 94 dmg if you do a quick combo with it). The max amount of dmg is presumed to be 350, but we're still not sure about it.
@@Dannst have u ever done 350 with the axtinguisher
@@TadofSalt I was close on getting 350 dmg, if we apply the same method, waiting 3,72 seconds gives 349 dmg (94 × 3,72). That's the highest amount of dmg we've got after several tests. So it's presumed the max dmg is 349/350
@@Dannst so if u waited for 10 seconds on the afterburn would it do 900 damage
@@TadofSalt not sure if we would ever see that due to that after burn wont really ever be that long, but hey if the lantern lighter got rereleased maybe we could try to get some high numbers
thanks for helping me be more annoying :)
Well you see here you cant one shot arsonist because arsknist has a afterburn immunity
The Axtinguisher needs a range nerf.
There only 1 counter to this and it to use the same combo against it or in general fighting fire with fire
I don't think it's unbalanced, it's just unskillful
such nice editing. i need to know how to replicate this
Do you play TF2 it's balanced there
Scorch shot mate, scorch shot
"balanced"
I cant hear a thing
Audio too soft. Can't even hear it at max volume
what is this diet tf2 i have found
Here is how to balance this weapon just slap tf2 stat to this weapon lol
even in tf2 its unbalanced and its literally free to get
Atleast in tf2 nobody uses it
@@goofyahhguy9389 yeah
Marksman main try not to say a weapon is unbalance challenge (impossible
So goofy and hypocritical)
TC2 is just low quality tf2 reskin rolve is trash go play tf2 its better and we have trade minecraft
im using this, sorry. i have a skill issue :)
ermm actually it's IMbalanced 🤓
:D
Mobile: ;-;
Play tf2 instead
Fr
This roblox dev really just stole everything from TF2 didn’t they? Why don’t you just play TF2???
if you just hate the axtinguisher, go play tf2
(just play tf2!)
I agree,but I think you missed that it cannot use the gimmick against Arsonists, because they cannot be hurt by After Burn.
(Still agree it's OP as Frick)
Not really, the gimmick of the axtinguisher can also be used against arsonist if you're quick enough since arsonists can be turned on fire for just a split second. (this also count for weapons that should disable afterburn like the Turtle Rock and the Icicle)