Handcrafted Spindle Side Table || Can You Find What Went Wrong?

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  • Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 91

  • @jeffharvey8283
    @jeffharvey8283 3 месяца назад +1

    Man, when I first saw the lip (which I know is the client's idea) I thought that crumbs and junk would be so hard to get off of there. But seeing the end it looks SO GOOD. Fantastic work and I love the depth of explanation at the end.

  • @olivier2553
    @olivier2553 4 месяца назад +12

    Would it be possible to start with a thicker top and carve both side of it, so the tension is balanced between top and bottom. And just at the last pass, flatten the bottom. Of course you'd need some registration to flip the slab.
    I don't know if that would help, but that would keep the same idea as when you laminate your counter top on both sides.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      I think taking off both sides evenly might help.

  • @chrisdiggs2237
    @chrisdiggs2237 4 месяца назад +3

    I appreciate your honesty and commitment re making mistakes… helps us nonprofessional woodworkers reconcile the mistakes we encounter. Great work. 👍🏼

  • @royunderwood7514
    @royunderwood7514 4 месяца назад

    I really appreciate your taking the time to explain when and what goes sideways during your builds. Definitely very educational.
    Dig your channel and building style.

  • @GrizzCraftCustoms
    @GrizzCraftCustoms 4 месяца назад +1

    Nice work, look forward to hearing how future iterations go. Thanks for the finishing info at the end!

  • @ScottAnders62
    @ScottAnders62 4 месяца назад

    I agree on getting away from a solid top in favor of veneering a plywood substrate with an applied edge banding. The General Finish dye stain looks great!

  • @panteliswoodwork9100
    @panteliswoodwork9100 4 месяца назад +1

    I like the idea of a veneered top with banding. Probably the best way to go. Minimises movement of that top as much as possible.

  • @duanethepirate
    @duanethepirate 4 месяца назад +1

    How about a truss rod like in a guitar inlaid underneath? Nice work and I love the video.

  • @MCsCreations
    @MCsCreations 4 месяца назад

    Really beautiful work, Andy! It looks amazing! 😃
    But yeah, I think the plywood with veneers is the right way to go!
    Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

  • @simonr6793
    @simonr6793 4 месяца назад +2

    I actually noticed the bow in the video when you were just starting to use the spokeshave on the table edge, it almost looks like a wave in the table top 😢. As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.

  • @mattelias721
    @mattelias721 3 месяца назад

    Andy, lovely table. I'd take it bow and all, fwiw. I've read all the suggestions, and have to say I'm nowhere near your skill level. That said, I've fought through my share of 'aw, sh*t' moments in my shop. I think your idea of a laminated/veneered plywood core with solid edges applied would work. I think the dovetailed rails would probably keep it flat, too, but they'd have to be pretty beefy, and they'd have to be installed before you did the CNC milling.
    Here's a middle-ground idea: make your own plywood out of the material you'd be using. You'd just make sheets of say, white oak, and then glue them at 90 degrees grain-wise to one another until your desired thickness is reached. It's still all oak, but stablized. The effect on the edges might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I'd actually like it. Your Oliver band saw wants you to try this.

  • @mattkoke1
    @mattkoke1 4 месяца назад +7

    For the top could you try using thicker material and removing some material from the bottom as well? Cut out the profile on the top, flip it over and remove 1/8-1/4" from the whole bottom?

    • @olivier2553
      @olivier2553 4 месяца назад +2

      OK, I was not the only one considering that.

    • @jacobdean1454
      @jacobdean1454 4 месяца назад

      Same

    • @tmmtmm
      @tmmtmm 4 месяца назад +1

      The trick I think is incremental machining of the top and the bottom, flipping it back and forth. Flatten the bottom, machine the top to 1/3rd of the final depth, re-flatten the bottom, machine the top to 2/3rds of the final depth, re-flatten the bottom, machine the top to final depth. Each time when reflattening the bottom, shims should be used where necessary so it does not require any significant hold-down force. In theory the amount of warping then becomes 1/3rd, versus machining each side to full depth in one go. If you don't care about the bottom being perfectly flat you should simply unmount it between each machining pass on the top and readjust any shims as neccesary.

    • @williamellis8993
      @williamellis8993 3 месяца назад

      My thoughts too.

  • @86abaile
    @86abaile 4 месяца назад

    Start with a thicker board, cut the centre relief leaving some depth still to cut, then cut the perimeter as you normally would. Then flip the board and surface the back of it, flip it back up and cut the relief to the final depth (you may also need to level the top of the perimeter). The main issue is that you're relieving tension from the wood, but keeping it stressed while cutting it because it's screwed down. Cutting the relief first will relieve most of the tension, flipping to board allows it to warp and surfacing the back gives you a new flat surface to mount to the CNC. Flipping it over again, you can now cut to final depth in a largely stress relieved board.

  • @rotaryw
    @rotaryw 4 месяца назад +1

    have you tried adding a couple of dovetail slotted sliding braces across the bottom of the table ? They could allow movement in the tangential plane along the slot but might help to contrast the bow.

  • @bobflores
    @bobflores 4 месяца назад +1

    The laminated solution should work to keep the tabletop from cupping. Thanks for the video.

  • @Glynchbrook
    @Glynchbrook 3 месяца назад

    Lovely table and beautiful workmanship as always. I'm sure you have considered this but I'd opt for routing some relief cuts on the underside. They could be concentric circles evenly spaced to match the circumference or else scallop the whole thing to match the top. I'm not a fan of veneer and lipping on tables that will get used. The patina just doesn't develop and instead of being a future antique, in my humble opinion, it becomes disposable.

  • @judebrown4103
    @judebrown4103 4 месяца назад

    I actually like to see the natural movement of the wood....which is why i was surprised you use epoxy on the joints. Wouldnt hide glue be more suitable so that if a leg or spindle gets damaged in the future a craftsman could easily repair it?
    Remedial idea for the bowing: have a glass insert made with clear shims or pads to keepvit steady so that at least you can rest a cup on it without damage.
    Not criticisms by the way, love that you show the problems with the successes. Really enjoyed this video, cheers Andy, hope your hand feels better. 👍

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Thanks for the comment! Hide glue is traditionally used for chair making for the reason you stated but in practicality I’m not sure how easy it is to be reversed and a repair executed. I would suspect it’s very difficult on the legs where they’ve been wedged. I apprenticed under Brian Boggs and he glued all his ladder back chairs with hide glue. The advantage to epoxy is it’s open time and it’s gap filling, if a joint isn’t executed well and has some slop epoxy can still effectively secure it. It’s a good discussion, I see the advantages to both.

    • @judebrown4103
      @judebrown4103 4 месяца назад

      @AndyRawls thanks your thoughtful reply. I'm in my sixties and from a family in furniture, though not myself, females were not encouraged back then.
      I watch another master craftsman on RUclips, Thomas Johnson, he's a little older and inherited his shop and all the tools and skills from his dad, so he reminds me of my long gone grandfathers. He restores old furniture and warms any joints to release the hide glue. He does use epoxy for repairs to broken split wood which has to be permanent but glues joint repairs with hide glue so that they can be taken apart if needs be in the future.
      I love what you do, watching a skilled craftsman design and work through his creations is a delight. Keep up the good work, it's great to exchange points of view.👍 God bless.

  • @tellysavalas8980
    @tellysavalas8980 4 месяца назад

    A warped wooden top is the best 👌❤

  • @Ivo_Serra
    @Ivo_Serra 4 месяца назад +2

    Andy, another very cool video.
    I don't have a specific suggestion to avoid what happened to the top. At first I thought it was some optical illusion that I was seeing. Unfortunately it was not.
    I have a suggestion to the coloring of the oak. Have you tried to expose white oak to a celled environment with ammonia? It becomes pretty dark. It's just a cool unusual way to do that darkening of the oak.
    Again, great job! All the luck with that table top.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      Yes! I love the look of fuming oak. I’ve done it in a few of my videos.

    • @Ivo_Serra
      @Ivo_Serra 4 месяца назад

      Really? I thought I had seen all your videos and I don't recall seeing that. But I'll give it a better look. 👍

  • @leaderofthelunatics
    @leaderofthelunatics 4 месяца назад +3

    Really cool build! I was wondering if it is necessary to taper the tenon? It seems like it would be a lot easier if it were straight but I am no expert, so seriously curious.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Tapering makes the joint way stronger. I wouldn’t do it any other way.

    • @leaderofthelunatics
      @leaderofthelunatics 4 месяца назад

      @@AndyRawls Great, thank you!

  • @Transparencies-EST.1787
    @Transparencies-EST.1787 3 месяца назад

    So Matt got you in this RUclips ... cool seen one of his old videos and he recorded your First video.. demolition ranch became one of the biggest gun channels..

  • @crashkg
    @crashkg 4 месяца назад +2

    Did you try wetting the surface right after CNC and letting it acclimatize in the shop before proceeding? I had some really warped tops
    that I thought were goners, but I wet the warped surface and let it dry out over a few days. They straightened out.

  • @toddbrightly8460
    @toddbrightly8460 4 месяца назад

    Ive had similar experiences with doing it this way. Ive found actually adding blocks of wood to the outside radius to be the better optoon. Glue the blocks on going with the grain all around the raduis, leaving enough material to make the full profile your looking for. This should sholve the wrapping issue. Well at least for me anyhow.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      I would be concerned that the seasonal movement of the table top would break apart the glued on blocks. I think you would have to veneer the top in order to do it this way.

  • @donesry2902
    @donesry2902 4 месяца назад

    I looks great to me. I’m a big fan and I really love white oak.
    Have you tried double sided carpet tape? I know it’s a pain but it might hold it flat for you.

  • @hectorocasio3288
    @hectorocasio3288 3 месяца назад

    try to route the bottom and leave a 1 1/2 ring around to help it stay stable may work may not i have a feeling it will had problems with deco panels cupping twisting and bowing off cnc because we only routed the face then we took the panels back to cnc and did the back the same way and it totally fixed all problems and panels were dead flat

  • @educatedrobotconsumer7219
    @educatedrobotconsumer7219 4 месяца назад +1

    Work out the degree of bow you get and account for it prior in the glue joints by making the table top have a negative bow. So that the bow flex caused by the scallop bows it to flat. Might need to secure it down to the CNC better if the vacuum table doesn't suck it down well enough. Just a thought.

    • @educatedrobotconsumer7219
      @educatedrobotconsumer7219 4 месяца назад +1

      Thinking about it there's the ripple side effect especially to the bottom side and the top lip but you could machine it out during the process. Food for thought anyway

  • @dylansousa5571
    @dylansousa5571 4 месяца назад

    Andy i love your work

  • @kenmckay194
    @kenmckay194 4 месяца назад

    A dovetailed batten slid into a matching mortise across the grain on the underside. The legs can be staked into these before inserting. You could use the drillpress to get the angle correct which will save time. Glue n only the last few inches. This will keep the table top flat and allow for differential wood movement. I can send a picture if you need one.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      I like that idea! I’ve thought about doing this and I think traditionally you see this in older pieces.

    • @kennymac58
      @kennymac58 4 месяца назад

      @@AndyRawlsdo it and show us your method. THis was worked out over centuries of making home tables. I don’t know how you will do it but I am sure it will be good.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      @@kennymac58 challenge accepted!!

  • @ChristopherCope-m8p
    @ChristopherCope-m8p 4 месяца назад

    Would using narrower width boards alleviate the top tendancy to warp/cup. If the client would accept the different aesthetic of the grain on the top.
    As others have posted, the dovetailed slot with timber running across the grain on the underside is another potential solution. The wetting and weighting the top may also assist you.
    If you have previous tops from other iterations, have an experiment, it would be a great additional video for us viewers. Thanks Andy. 👍

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      I like the idea of the dovetail slip.

  • @carpentryjoineryandcabinet6335
    @carpentryjoineryandcabinet6335 4 месяца назад

    I think of it was me, I'd be tempted to machine the relief into the bottom of the table as well as the top to even out the tension. I get this issue a lot when I machine textured panels. The process I would use is to machine up to the point the top is cut out, just as you are. Then put a mdf board on the cnc bed and machine a pocket into it for the circular table top to locate into for reference on the cnc. I'd then shim the under side of the top so that the vacuum doesn't pull down on that hollow and make the underside concave (learnt this the hard way). Then machine the relief into the bottom. In order to keep it flat whilst machining I would pre mark the reamed mortices for the legs then use countersunk screws in those 4 spots to pull everyrhing down tight onto the shims and the spoil board. One thing I have noticed when doing this kind of work, is that European oak is far less prone to the movement than American white. That may just be down to the fact the stuff exporerd to the uk is dried to such a low mc for shipping, but if you have any euro readily available, it may be worth an experiment. 👍👍

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Great advice thanks!!!

    • @carpentryjoineryandcabinet6335
      @carpentryjoineryandcabinet6335 4 месяца назад

      @@AndyRawls not worries, you've got a great channel, probably the only one I always watch when a new video drops. Look forward to the next one. 👍

  • @shrimuyopa8117
    @shrimuyopa8117 3 месяца назад

    You might want to try double sided tape and then screw down the stock but don't let the screw head touch the stock. That will stop the piece from moving side to side but not put enough downward pressure to cause it to bow and the tape will stop it from popping up.

  • @simonr6793
    @simonr6793 4 месяца назад +1

    Andy, the wood that you're using is it air dried or has it been kiln dried? Would this make any difference between the end product of the table top? I ask because I know that folk say constantly that kiln dried hardwood acts differently to the air dried 🤔, just a thought for you to consider 😃. Good luck buddy 🇬🇧.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      It’s kiln dried and yes it would make a difference. Air dried lumber will never have a low enough MC for the relative humidity of indoor homes. If you build with air dried you have to take proper steps because it will shrink.

    • @simonr6793
      @simonr6793 4 месяца назад

      @AndyRawls thanks Andy, it's good to know as I've a full olive ash that's been air drying since 1985. It actually came down in a rare storm here in the UK. I don't know what the size is in the USA with this type of tree but this thing must have been on steroids as its almost 5ft in width.

  • @jhazelberg
    @jhazelberg 4 месяца назад

    I really enjoy your builds. What’s the moisture content before to start doing the top. Are the tops dominio at all?

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      No dominoes. I didn’t check moisture content because it came from my hardwood supplier and I assume it’s properly dried…probably shouldn’t make that assumption though! I would guess around 8 percent

  • @howardyounger5456
    @howardyounger5456 4 месяца назад

    love your work. I live in Colorado where did you go. lots to do here

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      We were Breckenridge. Love it up there!!

  • @ryanohayre2809
    @ryanohayre2809 4 месяца назад

    Regarding your table top bowing problem …. This came to mind. I have built numerous “Mr Sawdust” radial arm saw work tables. Google it. Anyway, the idea is to run 1/8” thick grooves (table saw kerfs) through two pieces of plywood then epoxy in a flat stock steel bar into those grooves as you sandwich them together. It’s easy and the table top never moves. You’re not using ply of course but you could epoxy three or so steel bars into grooves on the bottom side before you ever do the CNC part. Just have to be aware of the depth so your bits don’t hit the steel bars.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Interesting…never seen this before. Thanks for sharing!

  • @danielreynolds1923
    @danielreynolds1923 4 месяца назад

    Have you tried alternating the end grain direction of the boards when you do the glue up for the top?

  • @raduvadan
    @raduvadan 4 месяца назад +3

    I feel your CNC relief cut on the top has way too much speed (rpm) for the feed you are pushing, and you are putting a ton of heat into that side of the wood. Combined with the airflow of the extractor, you are basically force-drying one side of the table top thus making it shrink. For such a burly bit, try to use at least a 0,25mm chip load per tooth. So either slow down the spindle speed, or, preferably, push the feed rate up.

    • @tmmtmm
      @tmmtmm 4 месяца назад

      I don't think that is it. I think the problem is that internal stresses in the boards are being unbalanced by removing bulk material from one side of each board. Just like when you rip a straight board on a table saw and end up with two bananas. The trick is to release the piece from the CNC after only an incremental amount of material has been removed, then assess and mitigate any warping by mounting it with shims or re-flattening the bottom before doing another incremental pass on the top side. I.e. even after one shallow pass it's going to warp a bit - what you don't want to do is continue holding it perfectly flat to the CNC bed with screws, you want to allow it to relax on the bed of the CNC so the next pass machines out the warp introduced by the previous pass.

  • @derekrobertson1548
    @derekrobertson1548 4 месяца назад

    When security the table top to the cnc would it be possible to put 4 extra screws into it, placed where you are going to drill the holes for the legs, you would obviously have to make sure the screw heads are deaper than what you are removing with the cnc. This may just help keep the top flat to the cnc. Or do you think when the screws are removed the wood would still move to release the tension resulting in bowing of the top.

  • @bobbyb1607
    @bobbyb1607 4 месяца назад

    I like your plywood and veneer solution. Would you cut your own veneers? If so, how thick would they be?

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      I usually aim for a finished thickness between 1/16-3/32.

  • @soupmandude
    @soupmandude 4 месяца назад

    great video

  • @ASousaMakesIt
    @ASousaMakesIt 4 месяца назад

    How about if you try a top from a glue up from small wood stripes?

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Honestly not sure how that would work, my guess is that it would help with the movement.

  • @sethhamilton5824
    @sethhamilton5824 3 месяца назад

    Is there a way to add the lip to both sides? Would that help with the pringle effect?

  • @mercedesEQUA
    @mercedesEQUA 4 месяца назад

    take care Andy

  • @chrisvonpimpenstein
    @chrisvonpimpenstein 4 месяца назад

    What about starting with a little thicker top and running a pass on the bottom side removing the same amount as you will remove from the top. That way what you are left with is the middle except for the lip.

  • @CaseySS423
    @CaseySS423 4 месяца назад

    Hey Andy, what if you did 1/4” segments around the outside? Just match the radius and “veneer” them to the top? Not sure how that would actually work out, and it might not be a very good idea at all, but thats what popped inti my head.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад +1

      Not a bad idea but I don’t think it wouldn’t work over solid as you would have some grain mismatch and the movement of the table top would likely break the lip.

    • @CaseySS423
      @CaseySS423 4 месяца назад

      ⁠​⁠@@AndyRawls I thought about the movement after I made the comment 🤔

  • @keatonharper8594
    @keatonharper8594 4 месяца назад

    What if you started with a thicker workpiece and removed as much (or close to the same amount) from the bottom as you remove from the top? Like how you alternate the upside of a board through the planer.

  • @privatepuffer
    @privatepuffer 4 месяца назад +1

    Take the same amount off the bottom as the top. That should fix it.

    • @Sentence3
      @Sentence3 4 месяца назад

      My thoughts exactly. And perhaps use quarter sawn rather than rift for extra stability?

  • @maker-restorer
    @maker-restorer 4 месяца назад +1

    what happed to Robert?

    • @Boxerdude
      @Boxerdude 4 месяца назад

      ditto.

    • @brianpeterson8908
      @brianpeterson8908 4 месяца назад +2

      Opened his own shop last year. It was mentioned in 2 or 3 videos back.

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      He’s off on his own now!

  • @SRM_NZ
    @SRM_NZ 4 месяца назад

    as for the warping of the top.....I have to ask.....what is the meaning of perfect? Unique? maybe

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Getting philosophical! I like it!!

  • @geordieperrie1072
    @geordieperrie1072 4 месяца назад +1

    What happened to Robert?

    • @deanlowther4020
      @deanlowther4020 4 месяца назад

      I was wondering that as well

    • @AndyRawls
      @AndyRawls  4 месяца назад

      Robert moved on to start his own Furniture shop last October.

  • @chuckolboy58
    @chuckolboy58 4 месяца назад

    Been watching this video and wondering why there is no like button. Only a thumbs down displayed. Thought you should know.