I'd like to present a slightly different perspective: I came to church in my early 40's, with decades of professional experience in music. Since then, I've mostly served in small churches where it's difficult to find enough musicians. Excellence in the Kingdom sometimes aligns with worldly standards, but often looks very different! The New Testament model for ministry builds people up instead of tearing them down, and looks like this: pray, love, teach, counsel, repent & forgive each other, seek God's grace and wisdom, look for His will in every situation, and remember that the greatest of these is LOVE.
I would say that's not a different perspective...that's the same exact perspective worded better :). "People are more important than your ministry" was repeated several times in this video for that very reason. We aren't looking for American Idol stars...we are looking for qualified people to use their skills to help the church as a whole sing. That's it. If they can't do that because they need help singing themselves...they should work to grow or serve somewhere else. But we should never make the entry point too high like what you are saying. That's why you'll only ever hear me saying "Un-distracting Excellence" ...that's much different than just being "excellent" or how some people hear it "Perfect." That's got no place in the church. It's something that needs to be dealt with pastorally. The problem is people get "stuck" with team members who had no business being on stage to begin with. This video provides a framework to move forward in wisdom.
@@HeyWorshipLeader yes and no. With the right guidance, someone who lacks skill but has a heart for worship can be helped to find their voice, rather than being dropped in a way that destroys their confidence or makes them question their calling. An example: I offered to play bass for a new Alpha program at a small country church. The woman who volunteered to play piano before each session was struggling to perform from the sheet music. We prayed together, and I asked if I might play the bass line while she concentrated on the right hand part. Of course, it was a little more complicated than that, but she quickly grasped the concept. Our little duet was well-received, she returned each week, and a bunch of people got saved. Within a couple of years, she was a key member of the worship team at her church.
That's awesome to see how God works...and again...we are saying the same thing here. "someone who lacks skill but has a heart for worship can be helped to find their voice" Exactly. And the story you described worked perfectly because she stuck with it and found a way to use her skill to serve in that way. But what happens when it's a vocalist who cannot even "hear" the pitch? Another words, they are tone-deaf. Then there is no amount of practice, (phrasing, breathing techniques etc...) that will solve the main problem. If this person puts in the work and somehow can train themselves to hear pitch, then let's go! Praise the Lord. But what if that doesn't happen? You do not let people lead the church in singing who cannot sing. That's more distracting and puts the focus on the person rather than the worship of God. The point is to lead the church in singing. And there are plenty of other ways to serve the church and not have their "confidence destroyed"...know what I mean?
I am an older guy that has been playing on the WT for years. Recently the leader decided I didn’t measure up. The way they got rid of me was to just stop scheduling me, hoping I would “get the message” without ever actually telling me. When I confronted them, they asked me to re-audition. I declined and actually have not been back to church since.
Your relationship with Christ is more important than the WT, so don’t let that prevent you from going to church. Find another church! But you should still ask the pastor if he gave permission for them to take a different direction, or don’t. But please find a church
All this is good advice, but I think this is not always the dynamic at small town churches. Some small churches, don’t have a paid worship leader, and the whole team is volunteer, and sometimes the pastor decides who is gonna sing or not sing. Hopefully, the worship leader is allowed to make the decisions about worship and trusted to follow the spirit.
Exactly...that's the first step in the video. If you don't have that authority and trust with the leadership above you...then that's a whole different problem to solve
What is the solution if you have someone in the choir that are really affecting the sound negatively .They have been talked to but still haven't heeded the advice.
I have a little bit of a different situation, where I have a girl with special needs who sings in the choir. She is not a great singer by any means, but having her up there allows her to feel a part of something. So we just keep her away from the mics!.....But if you've had a conversation and it's not getting better, that's when you go back to the Expectations and show them where they are not keeping up with them. If they are a bad singer, you gotta have that hard conversation and tell them exactly what to work on and try to re-audition again in a few months. If that's not going to work, they can serve somewhere else.
That's a different beast but follows the same process....if you are over them, then the same process applies. Make them re-audition, or do a new training...and then assess them from there...communicate the weaknesses and tell them what to work on. If they do not show a desire to grow...they can serve somewhere else. If you are not over them...communicate to the person who is. If it's just the pastor, then see if you can have authority over that area to bring improvement.
The whole tone/pitch thing is a bit shady. You basically said you lie to them to keep from hurting their feelbads. It is tough to have that conversation but point out what they did well and where they need to put in the work and how to put in that work to improve. Even offer to work with/shepherd them along the way.
Not shady at all and I would never say to lie. If they have “bad” “tone” which is more subjective anyways, then don’t tell them they have good tone, obviously. But in my experience, that’s never the issue. The issue is always that they struggle with “pitch.” Meaning they can’t hit the notes and sing on key. Finding something positive to say about their voice and challenging them to work on the weak points isn’t shady.
@@HeyWorshipLeader it is quite possible I misunderstood your point. If so, I apologize. I took it as if they had tone issues, say it was pitch and vice versa.
Gotcha...no, that's not what I was trying to communicate. It would really hard to say someone has bad "tone" because it is so subjective. All of our voices sound different. I bring that up to teach people the difference. You can have great tone and still sing off key. I'll give you an example, a friend of mine in high school took singing lessons to impress a girl. He worked on his tone, and breathing, and a bunch of other singing techniques, but at the end of the day, no matter the wonderful quality of his voice, he was still tone deaf. He couldn't hear the pitch. So I would say in an audition to someone in this same state: "Wow! you have great tone. Your voice sounds pleasing. However, the issue is that you are struggling to hear the pitch of the song, and therefore singing off key. If you will go back and practice matching pitch, we'll audition again in a few months." This is how to help someone along without belittling them.
Grab My Worship Team Expectations HERE: ►► jimmy-cooper.mykajabi.com/team-expectations-form-page
I'd like to present a slightly different perspective: I came to church in my early 40's, with decades of professional experience in music. Since then, I've mostly served in small churches where it's difficult to find enough musicians. Excellence in the Kingdom sometimes aligns with worldly standards, but often looks very different! The New Testament model for ministry builds people up instead of tearing them down, and looks like this: pray, love, teach, counsel, repent & forgive each other, seek God's grace and wisdom, look for His will in every situation, and remember that the greatest of these is LOVE.
I would say that's not a different perspective...that's the same exact perspective worded better :). "People are more important than your ministry" was repeated several times in this video for that very reason. We aren't looking for American Idol stars...we are looking for qualified people to use their skills to help the church as a whole sing. That's it. If they can't do that because they need help singing themselves...they should work to grow or serve somewhere else. But we should never make the entry point too high like what you are saying. That's why you'll only ever hear me saying "Un-distracting Excellence" ...that's much different than just being "excellent" or how some people hear it "Perfect." That's got no place in the church. It's something that needs to be dealt with pastorally. The problem is people get "stuck" with team members who had no business being on stage to begin with. This video provides a framework to move forward in wisdom.
@@HeyWorshipLeader yes and no. With the right guidance, someone who lacks skill but has a heart for worship can be helped to find their voice, rather than being dropped in a way that destroys their confidence or makes them question their calling. An example: I offered to play bass for a new Alpha program at a small country church. The woman who volunteered to play piano before each session was struggling to perform from the sheet music. We prayed together, and I asked if I might play the bass line while she concentrated on the right hand part. Of course, it was a little more complicated than that, but she quickly grasped the concept. Our little duet was well-received, she returned each week, and a bunch of people got saved. Within a couple of years, she was a key member of the worship team at her church.
That's awesome to see how God works...and again...we are saying the same thing here. "someone who lacks skill but has a heart for worship can be helped to find their voice" Exactly. And the story you described worked perfectly because she stuck with it and found a way to use her skill to serve in that way. But what happens when it's a vocalist who cannot even "hear" the pitch? Another words, they are tone-deaf. Then there is no amount of practice, (phrasing, breathing techniques etc...) that will solve the main problem. If this person puts in the work and somehow can train themselves to hear pitch, then let's go! Praise the Lord. But what if that doesn't happen? You do not let people lead the church in singing who cannot sing. That's more distracting and puts the focus on the person rather than the worship of God. The point is to lead the church in singing. And there are plenty of other ways to serve the church and not have their "confidence destroyed"...know what I mean?
Very helpful video man.
thanks!
Very helpful, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I am an older guy that has been playing on the WT for years. Recently the leader decided I didn’t measure up. The way they got rid of me was to just stop scheduling me, hoping I would “get the message” without ever actually telling me. When I confronted them, they asked me to re-audition. I declined and actually have not been back to church since.
Your relationship with Christ is more important than the WT, so don’t let that prevent you from going to church. Find another church!
But you should still ask the pastor if he gave permission for them to take a different direction, or don’t.
But please find a church
Ouch...that's terrible man...I'm sorry to hear that. Def not good leadership right there
I agree with this!
All this is good advice, but I think this is not always the dynamic at small town churches. Some small churches, don’t have a paid worship leader, and the whole team is volunteer, and sometimes the pastor decides who is gonna sing or not sing. Hopefully, the worship leader is allowed to make the decisions about worship and trusted to follow the spirit.
Exactly...that's the first step in the video. If you don't have that authority and trust with the leadership above you...then that's a whole different problem to solve
What is the solution if you have someone in the choir that are really affecting the sound negatively .They have been talked to but still haven't heeded the advice.
I have a little bit of a different situation, where I have a girl with special needs who sings in the choir. She is not a great singer by any means, but having her up there allows her to feel a part of something. So we just keep her away from the mics!.....But if you've had a conversation and it's not getting better, that's when you go back to the Expectations and show them where they are not keeping up with them. If they are a bad singer, you gotta have that hard conversation and tell them exactly what to work on and try to re-audition again in a few months. If that's not going to work, they can serve somewhere else.
What if you inherited bad sound people who ruin the sound of the talent you do have on stage?
That's a different beast but follows the same process....if you are over them, then the same process applies. Make them re-audition, or do a new training...and then assess them from there...communicate the weaknesses and tell them what to work on. If they do not show a desire to grow...they can serve somewhere else. If you are not over them...communicate to the person who is. If it's just the pastor, then see if you can have authority over that area to bring improvement.
Autotune or turn off their mic. If they can't sing in key/harmony and have been talked to then they need to 'face the music'.
There's that approach....haha!
The whole tone/pitch thing is a bit shady. You basically said you lie to them to keep from hurting their feelbads. It is tough to have that conversation but point out what they did well and where they need to put in the work and how to put in that work to improve. Even offer to work with/shepherd them along the way.
Not shady at all and I would never say to lie. If they have “bad” “tone” which is more subjective anyways, then don’t tell them they have good tone, obviously. But in my experience, that’s never the issue. The issue is always that they struggle with “pitch.” Meaning they can’t hit the notes and sing on key. Finding something positive to say about their voice and challenging them to work on the weak points isn’t shady.
@@HeyWorshipLeader it is quite possible I misunderstood your point. If so, I apologize. I took it as if they had tone issues, say it was pitch and vice versa.
Gotcha...no, that's not what I was trying to communicate. It would really hard to say someone has bad "tone" because it is so subjective. All of our voices sound different. I bring that up to teach people the difference. You can have great tone and still sing off key. I'll give you an example, a friend of mine in high school took singing lessons to impress a girl. He worked on his tone, and breathing, and a bunch of other singing techniques, but at the end of the day, no matter the wonderful quality of his voice, he was still tone deaf. He couldn't hear the pitch. So I would say in an audition to someone in this same state: "Wow! you have great tone. Your voice sounds pleasing. However, the issue is that you are struggling to hear the pitch of the song, and therefore singing off key. If you will go back and practice matching pitch, we'll audition again in a few months." This is how to help someone along without belittling them.