To get the best performance from cable-actuated-hydraulic, use compression-less cable housing, not standard brake cable housing. A bit more expensive and difficult to route, but a noticeable improvement in stopping power. Another upshot of cable actuation is that you can adjust pad spacing with the barrel adjuster.
2+ years on my triban 520 with those brakes. Didnt touch a single thing apart from changing pads. Not as good as full hydraulic but miles better than mechanical
1:32 i highly disagree. cheap mechs are worse than hydros, yes. and expensive hydros are the bees knees, agreed. but there are loads of very good and expensive mechanical disc brakes that wipe the floor with cheap hydros.
The TRP system you're discussing could be described as a "hoseless hydraulic" braking system... the high-pressure side of the hydraulic brakes has been relocated from the handlebar to the caliper and actuated remotely by a cable.
In The States, I was able to get a pair for ~$80 total from State Bicycle Co. I'm not sure they ship internationally, but they have been a great upgrade over the mechanical brakes that came on my bike. I gave them a try because of the price and I wouldn't have to replace my brifters.
I’m using a single piston SHIMANO mtb cable calipers with the most basic tektro road levers and they stop incredibly well. Like they have insane bite and good actuation distance. I partially actuate the piston when installing to be just right but outside of that one hack, they work like normal. Compared to my dual piston Tektro road calipers, I feel like they’re not much better than Cantis.
The Paul Klamper with Yokozuna Reaction brake housing is better than any of the hybred disk brakes. It is more expensive than many of the full hydraulic .disk brakes also. My touring bicycle has S&S frame couplers and I tried several other mechanical disk brakes prior to the Paul Klampers.
I use mechanical discs. they're okay. I used to be super 'save the rim brake' but then i ruined a rim brake track after a muddy CX race and I would have been better replacing a cheap disc than a whole wheel
Got some cheap ztto cable hydro brakes £30 for the pair, for now they are pretty good easily lock the rear on the hoods, front will do an endo if you wanted. Just have to see how long they last
Sorry Jimmy, but you're wrong. If you want to try an awesome cable brake, try the Paul Components Klamper. I've just switched my gravel bike to them. I had so many issues with leaking calibers that for my bike packing trip I went cable. Absolutely amazing. Down side is they are chuffing expensive!
@@SiopaoSauc3 I want to be able to service them when I’m bike packing in distant lands. For me on this bike it was about serviceability. But they are stonkingly good for cable and on a par with hydro.
Klampers are an example of a perfectly made component - pretty much anything made by Paul is perfect. But these components are made by master machinists in one of the most expensive labor markets on the planet (California), and so they are really expensive. (Yes, I know Chico, CA isn’t as expensive as labor in the big metro areas like Sacramento, LA, or the San Francisco Bay Area, but it still isn’t cheap labor.) I’ve owned the best full hydraulic systems you can buy, and while Klampers can’t be as good as a properly set up hydraulic system (it’s physics; hydraulic fluid is better than a cable for modulating braking forces), they are still very good brakes and truly are better if you need to be able to do maintenance in the field.
I was using them for 2 years. They are difficult to set and heavy too. After two years one was licking oil, there aren´t any spare parts to buy. Changed to full hydraulic and it´s the better option.
I am amazed how many people does not know how to properly configure mechanical disk calipers. Use good braking pads, not the cheep ones and a proper configuration, they will brake as good as hydraulic ones. I have Scott addict with 105 7020 hydraulic and Bergamont Gandurance with Sora calipers, braking force on both is the same if not better on Bergamont. Im using Swissstop brake pads on both, 34 exoterm2 on Scott and 28RS on Bergamont...
They won't be as good. They can certainly be very good though, and still definitely better than the best rim brakes. Big tires with more than enough traction will highlight the differences between the best mechanicals and hydraulic. I run mechanical Spyres and Paul brakes with Nokon housing. They're very good, but I'd definitely be running hydraulics if I found hydraulic hoods I liked as much as my Red22 hoods.
@@veganpotterthevegan On one of our group rides, we had a pile-up because a pedestrian jumped in front of the leading bike. I accidentally performed a stoppie on a 40mm Continental Terra Trail, on asfalt, and fell on the side when a bike that was behind me hit me. That was 3 weeks ago on my bergamont with mechanical disks. Usually I run 32mm gp5000 on Bergamont, but that day, for some reason I wanted to go with 40mm terra trails, it stopped like it was nothing, and again I have a second bike with full and proper hydro set to compare, shit brakes the same, only requires to touch them from time to time to bring closer the pads as they ware off. I forgot to mention, I have 180mm front disk on that bike, that can be the difference between 2 in breaking performance.
@@veganpotterthevegan I replied to you directly on the subject about which you were talking about in your first post and you deny it any way. I mean it is impossible to give you any facts when you streight deny them. I have 3rd road bike as well with R8000 ultegra rim brakes and swissstop flash pro bxp pads, and yeah, these rim brakes are very good and very powerfull but not as powerfull as the other 2 disk types in comparison. Braking performance can be measured and I do not know why we are all bullshitting here about subjective feeling when force can be turned into numbers. On the second thought by whose standards are mechanical worse then mechanical, please provide force numbers from the actual tests and not from somebody going down the hill and trying to replicate something without measuring the applied force on the handle vs the actual braking force on the wheel.
@AlmightyE51 not at all. You're not living in the real world, that's really all this is. Are you telling me you measure the clamping force onto your rotors?
One can only ride as fast as he can stop. So upgrading to cable-actuated hydraulic brake is an easy choice, even at $100 a piece. I mean..... how much do people spend on wheels to get faster?
I have TRP hy/rd postmount version. I like them. I don't want fully hydraulic. I specifically bought mechanical levers and these calipers. But there is one thing I really hate. It's the bleeding. I followed instruction trp usa youtube channel. Used 2 trp basic bleed kits(to have 2 syriges). The problem was that on piston site bleed port, the o-ring on hose stud did not seal. When tightening the stud more. It pushes the o-ring out. At reservoir bleeding port it fit well.. My conclusion is that. It's manufacturers who underrate hybrid disc brakes. They purposely make them worse than they should be. Though. It seems that on flat mount version of trp hy/rd brakes the bleeding ports are different. So maybe those don't have that problem. But flatmount calipers seems bad. I'm not really sure, but it looks like on flatmount brakes, the front and rear are different. So If you live in somewhere remote, where you can't buy a new one right away, when something happens to existing one. Maybe you would have to order it and wait some months. You would have 2 spares ready. One for front and one for rear. But for postmount. Just one spare is enough. I believe that mechanical, and hybrid are the best. Fully hydraulic is overkill and should be rated as worst.
Flat mount calipers are exactly the same, the only difference is the mounting adapters. So yes, you can indeed have only one spare caliper if one breaks down, as long as the adapter isn't damaged.
I think cable-actuated hydraulics missed their market by not aggressively targeting racers who are concerned about the weight of their bike. They're a massive upgrade in braking power for a much lower system weight. So for cyclocross, they'd actually be incredibly good, considering all the years we were just fine with rim brakes. And weight matters more than you'd expect there just because picking up a bike and running with it on your shoulder is incredibly tiring when the bike is heavy. (It's tiring no matter what, really.)
Seems to me this is the next big testing frontier. We have wind tunnels, chains and tires all with test protocols, now we need definitive disc brake testing. All we have is a whole bunch of anecdotal seat of the pants comments. This feels like it should be really easy to empirically prove which callipers are “best” in each category. Clamping force can be measured.
I guess a big problem in all this comparing brakes is that there are at least two key performance metrics: one, full stopping power; and two, the famous 'modulation' quality that, if I understand it correctly, lets you slow down in a controlled manner without locking the wheels. Luke from Trace Velo tested various brakes for the first metric, which is obvious and easily observable (how long it takes to brake to full stop at a given initial speed). But the second metric is I think subjective, and therefore not easy to quantify, and even if there were, different riders will look for different behaviour in their brakes.
it feels easy in my head, which means probably an engineering nightmare. I just think it would be easy to take the human out of it for both scenarios. Overall time to complete stop simulating an “x” weight rider with the wheel spinning on a drum and then same measurement but with “x” percentage of lever pull. Can do it by 10% of lever travel. So 10,20,30 etc. You’d see when the pads engage with each set of callipers and they be able to see how “grabby” they are which could be extrapolated to anticipate “feel”. Yes ultimately it would still be subjective but there would at least be standards to be able to compare against. I dunno just my idle thoughts that pop into my head if things I’d check someday if I was younger and had Elon musk money
You will need to ride a lot farther than across Malaysia to test a component. Thats like a few days to a week week. Malaysia is small. I don't know any experienced touring or bikepacking cyclists who would suggest the hybrid brakes. Ive always heard the hybrid referred to as the worst of both worlds. Get some good mechanical like Klamper, Growtac, or even Spyre with quality compressionless housing. I assume the poor braking was from low end mechanicals with standard housing.
So cable-hydros...history lesson... this is what mountain bikers largely experienced first...from Prostop, Amp/Rockshox, and a couple others in the 90s. Basic most advantage is that they don't require a lot of cable pull (so cantilever brake levers or road levers work fine), and in general either thru a floating caliper or rotor, or double pistons, you get better brake response than most every straight mechanical where only one pad moves and you're flexing the rotor into the other pad. Also they're more tolerant of a slightly bent rotor than a pure mechanical setup, and they deal with the heat of extended braking a bit better. As to prices...Juin Tech, TRP, Zoom, and a few others a range of pricing for modern cable-hydraulic calipers. A pair of Zoom calipers run about $80CAD off amazon.
The gym is a weird one. On the one hand you have people who need to get out, others need an audience, and others just need a routine, or don't have room at home. But I see all sides of it, and admittedly, have improved my fitness by going.
I managed to avoid COVID for the entire pandemic period and then my wife brought it home from the gym after people stopped being careful. The gym is a great place to get the plague.
The gym offers more and better equipment than most home gyms. In most cases you get a better workout. Cyclists need to do gym work to maintain fitness.
Carbon rims, mud, water and heavy weight I can see it At under 100 kg in tbe dry you should be doing stoppies at speed with Rim Brakes with proper technique if they are properly set up. Most guys that have issues it's poor set-up, trying to brake from the hoods, bad pads, improper rim prep and junk components in that order.
"full cable system is the worst" tell that to my growtac equal mechanical disc brake. Almost no effort when pulling them, zero resistance, feels better even compared to hydraulic systems, if set up properly. Granted they are expensive, but needs close to zero maintenance. Plus i don't have to tolerate mechanical-hydraulic stis cause they are freaking ugly. I'd only go full hydraulic if it's di2 due to it's smaller and more ergonomic size. Hydraulic 105/ultg/dura ace? Fugly
I just bought a bike with cable disc brakes. Not hydraulic. I think these brakes are totally overrated as the rim brakes on my 1975 Trek worked just as well as these new-fangled ones. I wouldn’t pay for discs unless you get hydraulic.
Wow... your explanations are lacking. Thankfully most of know what you're talking about. My csbke actuated dual piston Juin Tech brakes are far superior to my Sram Rival full Hydro's in every way.
These people really don't know much about anything when it comes to cycling. I'm blown away that so many people listen to them for information over laughs
"James Bond"??? 😁😁😁 Is he going to ride a bicycle in the next Bond movie?? ECO warrior Bond...for 2024....😝 Pierce Brosnan was the best by far...especially the tank scene in Moscow
Gym is expensive spending thousands on bikes…😂of course the gym is overrated by someone who sadly lacks the knowledge and lacks the self discipline to train in a gym. Longevity and full body muscle tissue growth and maintenance are synonymous 😂 Fall over and Break your shoulder like all the other weak cyclists..
To get the best performance from cable-actuated-hydraulic, use compression-less cable housing, not standard brake cable housing. A bit more expensive and difficult to route, but a noticeable improvement in stopping power. Another upshot of cable actuation is that you can adjust pad spacing with the barrel adjuster.
Honestly even the non-hydro versions are really good.
2+ years on my triban 520 with those brakes. Didnt touch a single thing apart from changing pads. Not as good as full hydraulic but miles better than mechanical
Same here! Love them on my Triban 😎
1:32 i highly disagree. cheap mechs are worse than hydros, yes. and expensive hydros are the bees knees, agreed. but there are loads of very good and expensive mechanical disc brakes that wipe the floor with cheap hydros.
Yep. I would take anything said here with a grain of salt
Is that not what Francis literally said in response?
The TRP system you're discussing could be described as a "hoseless hydraulic" braking system... the high-pressure side of the hydraulic brakes has been relocated from the handlebar to the caliper and actuated remotely by a cable.
In The States, I was able to get a pair for ~$80 total from State Bicycle Co. I'm not sure they ship internationally, but they have been a great upgrade over the mechanical brakes that came on my bike. I gave them a try because of the price and I wouldn't have to replace my brifters.
I’m using a single piston SHIMANO mtb cable calipers with the most basic tektro road levers and they stop incredibly well. Like they have insane bite and good actuation distance. I partially actuate the piston when installing to be just right but outside of that one hack, they work like normal. Compared to my dual piston Tektro road calipers, I feel like they’re not much better than Cantis.
yeah i will probably try those ztto semi hydraulic brakes. i trust that they are good. ztto rarely seems to make bad products.
Save you money mate they're absolutely not worth it
@@glennoc8585 not worth it in what way? are they not durable or something?
They are good... only if you have compressionless cables.
@@neutronpcxt372 interesting. i have never heard of those.
The Paul Klamper with Yokozuna Reaction brake housing is better than any of the hybred disk brakes. It is more expensive than many of the full hydraulic .disk brakes also. My touring bicycle has S&S frame couplers and I tried several other mechanical disk brakes prior to the Paul Klampers.
I use mechanical discs. they're okay. I used to be super 'save the rim brake' but then i ruined a rim brake track after a muddy CX race and I would have been better replacing a cheap disc than a whole wheel
Got some cheap ztto cable hydro brakes £30 for the pair, for now they are pretty good easily lock the rear on the hoods, front will do an endo if you wanted. Just have to see how long they last
Sorry Jimmy, but you're wrong. If you want to try an awesome cable brake, try the Paul Components Klamper. I've just switched my gravel bike to them. I had so many issues with leaking calibers that for my bike packing trip I went cable. Absolutely amazing. Down side is they are chuffing expensive!
At the cost of klampers, I'd rather just go full hydro
@@SiopaoSauc3 I want to be able to service them when I’m bike packing in distant lands. For me on this bike it was about serviceability. But they are stonkingly good for cable and on a par with hydro.
I just bought a pair of Klampers for my mountain bike, which I basically use as a gravel bike. Looking at the Klampers-they'll probably last forever!
Klampers are an example of a perfectly made component - pretty much anything made by Paul is perfect. But these components are made by master machinists in one of the most expensive labor markets on the planet (California), and so they are really expensive. (Yes, I know Chico, CA isn’t as expensive as labor in the big metro areas like Sacramento, LA, or the San Francisco Bay Area, but it still isn’t cheap labor.)
I’ve owned the best full hydraulic systems you can buy, and while Klampers can’t be as good as a properly set up hydraulic system (it’s physics; hydraulic fluid is better than a cable for modulating braking forces), they are still very good brakes and truly are better if you need to be able to do maintenance in the field.
Mechanical disc brake works perfectly fine!
i've had the hy-ro's and the spires but now i have the fully hyrdo and i love the hydro
I was using them for 2 years. They are difficult to set and heavy too. After two years one was licking oil, there aren´t any spare parts to buy.
Changed to full hydraulic and it´s the better option.
significantly more expensive and not an option for most people without a groupset change. there is a time and place for these.
I am amazed how many people does not know how to properly configure mechanical disk calipers. Use good braking pads, not the cheep ones and a proper configuration, they will brake as good as hydraulic ones. I have Scott addict with 105 7020 hydraulic and Bergamont Gandurance with Sora calipers, braking force on both is the same if not better on Bergamont. Im using Swissstop brake pads on both, 34 exoterm2 on Scott and 28RS on Bergamont...
They won't be as good. They can certainly be very good though, and still definitely better than the best rim brakes. Big tires with more than enough traction will highlight the differences between the best mechanicals and hydraulic. I run mechanical Spyres and Paul brakes with Nokon housing. They're very good, but I'd definitely be running hydraulics if I found hydraulic hoods I liked as much as my Red22 hoods.
@@veganpotterthevegan On one of our group rides, we had a pile-up because a pedestrian jumped in front of the leading bike. I accidentally performed a stoppie on a 40mm Continental Terra Trail, on asfalt, and fell on the side when a bike that was behind me hit me. That was 3 weeks ago on my bergamont with mechanical disks. Usually I run 32mm gp5000 on Bergamont, but that day, for some reason I wanted to go with 40mm terra trails, it stopped like it was nothing, and again I have a second bike with full and proper hydro set to compare, shit brakes the same, only requires to touch them from time to time to bring closer the pads as they ware off. I forgot to mention, I have 180mm front disk on that bike, that can be the difference between 2 in breaking performance.
@@B0og3yman84 I've done that on rim brakes(and I'm 90kg). That doesn't mean they're as good as disc brakes.
@@veganpotterthevegan I replied to you directly on the subject about which you were talking about in your first post and you deny it any way. I mean it is impossible to give you any facts when you streight deny them. I have 3rd road bike as well with R8000 ultegra rim brakes and swissstop flash pro bxp pads, and yeah, these rim brakes are very good and very powerfull but not as powerfull as the other 2 disk types in comparison. Braking performance can be measured and I do not know why we are all bullshitting here about subjective feeling when force can be turned into numbers. On the second thought by whose standards are mechanical worse then mechanical, please provide force numbers from the actual tests and not from somebody going down the hill and trying to replicate something without measuring the applied force on the handle vs the actual braking force on the wheel.
@AlmightyE51 not at all. You're not living in the real world, that's really all this is. Are you telling me you measure the clamping force onto your rotors?
Full hydraulic brakes are cheap now, we just need affordable electronic shifting and we can stop using cables all together!
One can only ride as fast as he can stop.
So upgrading to cable-actuated hydraulic brake is an easy choice, even at $100 a piece.
I mean..... how much do people spend on wheels to get faster?
I have TRP hy/rd postmount version. I like them. I don't want fully hydraulic. I specifically bought mechanical levers and these calipers. But there is one thing I really hate. It's the bleeding. I followed instruction trp usa youtube channel. Used 2 trp basic bleed kits(to have 2 syriges). The problem was that on piston site bleed port, the o-ring on hose stud did not seal. When tightening the stud more. It pushes the o-ring out. At reservoir bleeding port it fit well..
My conclusion is that. It's manufacturers who underrate hybrid disc brakes. They purposely make them worse than they should be. Though. It seems that on flat mount version of trp hy/rd brakes the bleeding ports are different. So maybe those don't have that problem.
But flatmount calipers seems bad. I'm not really sure, but it looks like on flatmount brakes, the front and rear are different. So If you live in somewhere remote, where you can't buy a new one right away, when something happens to existing one. Maybe you would have to order it and wait some months. You would have 2 spares ready. One for front and one for rear. But for postmount. Just one spare is enough.
I believe that mechanical, and hybrid are the best. Fully hydraulic is overkill and should be rated as worst.
Flat mount calipers are exactly the same, the only difference is the mounting adapters. So yes, you can indeed have only one spare caliper if one breaks down, as long as the adapter isn't damaged.
Well, my Paul Klampers have more stopping power than my GRX
Can get the Hy/Rd new retail for £85.00 with a 160mm rotor. (and in stock) at Bikemonger
I think cable-actuated hydraulics missed their market by not aggressively targeting racers who are concerned about the weight of their bike. They're a massive upgrade in braking power for a much lower system weight. So for cyclocross, they'd actually be incredibly good, considering all the years we were just fine with rim brakes. And weight matters more than you'd expect there just because picking up a bike and running with it on your shoulder is incredibly tiring when the bike is heavy. (It's tiring no matter what, really.)
Seems to me this is the next big testing frontier. We have wind tunnels, chains and tires all with test protocols, now we need definitive disc brake testing. All we have is a whole bunch of anecdotal seat of the pants comments. This feels like it should be really easy to empirically prove which callipers are “best” in each category. Clamping force can be measured.
Trace Velo has done brake testing of different brands. Not in lab conditions but a good indicator if you're looking to change brake callipers
I guess a big problem in all this comparing brakes is that there are at least two key performance metrics: one, full stopping power; and two, the famous 'modulation' quality that, if I understand it correctly, lets you slow down in a controlled manner without locking the wheels. Luke from Trace Velo tested various brakes for the first metric, which is obvious and easily observable (how long it takes to brake to full stop at a given initial speed). But the second metric is I think subjective, and therefore not easy to quantify, and even if there were, different riders will look for different behaviour in their brakes.
it feels easy in my head, which means probably an engineering nightmare. I just think it would be easy to take the human out of it for both scenarios. Overall time to complete stop simulating an “x” weight rider with the wheel spinning on a drum and then same measurement but with “x” percentage of lever pull. Can do it by 10% of lever travel. So 10,20,30 etc. You’d see when the pads engage with each set of callipers and they be able to see how “grabby” they are which could be extrapolated to anticipate “feel”. Yes ultimately it would still be subjective but there would at least be standards to be able to compare against. I dunno just my idle thoughts that pop into my head if things I’d check someday if I was younger and had Elon musk money
10:04 considering that like 90% of gym profits come from people who never go there i don't think that's a very effective.
You will need to ride a lot farther than across Malaysia to test a component. Thats like a few days to a week week. Malaysia is small.
I don't know any experienced touring or bikepacking cyclists who would suggest the hybrid brakes.
Ive always heard the hybrid referred to as the worst of both worlds.
Get some good mechanical like Klamper, Growtac, or even Spyre with quality compressionless housing.
I assume the poor braking was from low end mechanicals with standard housing.
It's not easily available.... TRP should make more of these to gain more users to appreciate it!
So cable-hydros...history lesson... this is what mountain bikers largely experienced first...from Prostop, Amp/Rockshox, and a couple others in the 90s. Basic most advantage is that they don't require a lot of cable pull (so cantilever brake levers or road levers work fine), and in general either thru a floating caliper or rotor, or double pistons, you get better brake response than most every straight mechanical where only one pad moves and you're flexing the rotor into the other pad. Also they're more tolerant of a slightly bent rotor than a pure mechanical setup, and they deal with the heat of extended braking a bit better. As to prices...Juin Tech, TRP, Zoom, and a few others a range of pricing for modern cable-hydraulic calipers. A pair of Zoom calipers run about $80CAD off amazon.
The gym is a weird one. On the one hand you have people who need to get out, others need an audience, and others just need a routine, or don't have room at home. But I see all sides of it, and admittedly, have improved my fitness by going.
I managed to avoid COVID for the entire pandemic period and then my wife brought it home from the gym after people stopped being careful. The gym is a great place to get the plague.
The gym is a great place to get a venereal disease. Who really knows what your wife has been doing?
Frances scoffs at gyms but not turbo trainers at home 🤔
The gym offers more and better equipment than most home gyms. In most cases you get a better workout. Cyclists need to do gym work to maintain fitness.
Carbon rims, mud, water and heavy weight I can see it
At under 100 kg in tbe dry you should be doing stoppies at speed with Rim Brakes with proper technique if they are properly set up. Most guys that have issues it's poor set-up, trying to brake from the hoods, bad pads, improper rim prep and junk components in that order.
"full cable system is the worst" tell that to my growtac equal mechanical disc brake.
Almost no effort when pulling them, zero resistance, feels better even compared to hydraulic systems, if set up properly. Granted they are expensive, but needs close to zero maintenance. Plus i don't have to tolerate mechanical-hydraulic stis cause they are freaking ugly. I'd only go full hydraulic if it's di2 due to it's smaller and more ergonomic size. Hydraulic 105/ultg/dura ace? Fugly
Weights are ridiculously expensive. A bench, bar, rack and some plates, you'll be lucky to get change from £1k and that's cheap stuff.
I'm not buying it. Good tech, but it really doesn't make a big difference in stopping.
I guess I don’t understand why disc brakes are more effective. Isn’t the rim used by rim brakes just a BIG disc????
there is only solid metal between what the disc brake caliper is pressing into, with rim brakes, you are pressing the brake pads onto a hollow object.
I just bought a bike with cable disc brakes. Not hydraulic. I think these brakes are totally overrated as the rim brakes on my 1975 Trek worked just as well as these new-fangled ones. I wouldn’t pay for discs unless you get hydraulic.
I had them years ago and they were crap end of.
Rim brakes are still better…
Not on mtb.
Wow... your explanations are lacking. Thankfully most of know what you're talking about. My csbke actuated dual piston Juin Tech brakes are far superior to my Sram Rival full Hydro's in every way.
These people really don't know much about anything when it comes to cycling. I'm blown away that so many people listen to them for information over laughs
I have Juin Techs too. I use compression less housing and they are great!
"James Bond"??? 😁😁😁 Is he going to ride a bicycle in the next Bond movie?? ECO warrior Bond...for 2024....😝 Pierce Brosnan was the best by far...especially the tank scene in Moscow
Gym is expensive spending thousands on bikes…😂of course the gym is overrated by someone who sadly lacks the knowledge and lacks the self discipline to train in a gym. Longevity and full body muscle tissue growth and maintenance are synonymous 😂 Fall over and Break your shoulder like all the other weak cyclists..