Notes: It is often said that the wreck of Captain Flemming's aircraft can be seen in the photos, I don't think the photos are good support. That entire location of the ship was demolished by the torpedos detonating, very little is recognizable. There are also no reports of Mikuma's engineering spaces being impacted to any degree prior to being bombed the next day. This event showed the USN how resilient Japanese cruisers were to taking damage. It was a learning point for future engagements involving them.
You might find this interesting. The attack against Mogami and Mikuma also happened to be the last combat operation for the TBD Devastator. The three surviving TBDs of VT-6 were in the strike, but never pressed their attacks. The squadron leader (Lt. Laub) was specifically ordered by Admiral Spruance (who was still reeling from the loss of so many of his torpedo planes), “if there is one single gun firing out there, under no circumstances are you to attack.”
Appreciate your inclusion of details. For example, the survivors picked up by the Trout: "...a chief radioman and a fireman third class." As a writer of history myself, I have found that this takes more work but really bucks up the story.
@@jamesmordovancey517 Its not a phrase you just made it up. Seems suspect that someone who is a self proclaimed "writer of history" would use such an irresponsible literary tactic and then defend it by saying it just works for you. I sincerely hope you dont take such liberties in your historical retrospectives. Liar
Very unlucky class of modern looking IJN heavy cruisers. The Japanese naval architects adhered to a design of “three” longitudinal bulkheads for their main fleet cruise. The US design required four. Thus point has been considered a weakness of Japanese design with less internal robustness. However, it’s amazing this cruiser remained afloat after being hit with five 1000 lbs bombs, plus its torpedoes exploding. Tough ship!
I remember seeing photos of Mikuma with the caption that the wreckage of Flemming’s AC could be seen atop the turret and thinking ‘Where?’ So much twisted metal and nothing discernible as parts of an AC. Great job on your content.
I first saw the photograph of the devastated ( no pun intended) Mikuma some sixty years ago and was struck by the catastrophic damage. My father had served in the Royal Navy during W.W.2 and had been torpedoed during a convoy to Malta. Additionally he’d also served on the U.S.S.South Dakota as a communication link with our Home Fleet at Scapa. His American shipmates informed him that Japanese survivors from the night battle of Guadalcanal had attempted to knife their rescuers. One can only imagine the horrors that sailors and aircrew suffered. Currently along with soldiers and civilians similar barbarities are being inflicted by those who think territories can be gained and attacked. 👍🏻🏴🇺🇸
If I remember rightly, the Hornet was the Carrier that took the B25's on the Doolittle raid. When asked by the press where the bombers came from, President Roosevelt said "they came from Shangri La" So the press, being the press, announced in typical bold headlines that they were carried aboard the US Shangri La & I have called it that ever since I heard the story.
But the "American kamikaze" story is true! It was my grandfather.... He flew his fully loaded B-52 into the Yamato just after the Mikuma was sunk. Since his plane was laden with 50,000lbs of bombs, it completely destroyed the battleship. He told me all about it when I was a kid. Later he said he became a Navy Seal, and he captured Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam war! 😁
I just found your channel and I enjoy your style. You did the research well, presented your topic directly, and they all have a matter-of-fact ending. Subscribing today.
Disclaimer: Not an expert. Just an avid reader of history. Torpedo and floatplane facilities seem to have been areas of extreme vulnerability for those cruisers who carried them. Amidships catapults (and close by stores of propellant cartridges for their use as well as wonderfully flammable AvGas fuel for the planes) are sited above engine or boiler spaces. Catapults on the fantail are right over the aft steerage accommodation and, of course, the ship's screws. Torpedo launchers (in WW2 era cruisers) were usually sited aft of the funnels; a collection of 500+ pound warheads sitting under splinter protection on the main deck in a perfect place to blow the ship in half. If these cook off, due to fire or impact, it usually spells the end of the ship. Modern shipborne aviation facilities mount no explosive powered catapults, and carry less dangerous kerosene-like fuels. Modern (cold war and later) cruisers are a mixed bag as far as torpedo armament goes. Rather than tubes, cruisers might carry ASROC launched torpedoes. A question might be raised about the difference of vulnerability between a VLS magazine (for cruise missiles, AA missiles, and ASW weapons) and a rifle (cannon) powder magazine of WW2 vintage. As always, the more of your "splodey stuff" you can hide behind armor (and/or under the waterline), the better your chances of survival in a slugfest. Torpedoes, Depth Charges, AvGas tanks, fueled up floatplanes, and aircraft ordnance sitting on your deck are serious liabilities when your ship is under attack from the air and sea.
1:18 I thought it was interesting you found a picture of what is likely Mogami with the damaged bow. The image clearly shows what appears to be a Mogami-class cruiser with the three 8" turrets and the bow bent to port just forward of the foremost gun turret. I can see why this damage would have created a lot of problems for Mogami, and why she would have been throwing up a huge bow wave when travelling at her fastest possible speed at that time (due to the damage). I had never seen that image before. Nice find.
The Japanese heavy cruisers did absorb a great amount of damage. Certainly Mikuma stayed afloat long after she had been turned into a wreck. I have also ran into numerous reports that the system of damage control on the ships sometimes caused the loss of the ship when it could have been saved by the Japanese policy of making damage control a special and separate part of the ships crew.
There was also a policy of strict adherence to your job… and cross training and personal initiative was strongly discouraged…. So if the damage control team was wiped out….there was little trained backup
Almost all the written accounts of Midway either omit the Mikuma altogether or just mention it in passing. I always wondered what the real story was. Thanks for filling in that gap.
Yamamoto predicted that with the Pearl Harbor attack, Japan would control the Pacific for 6 months, then the sleeping bear would wake-up and defeat them. 6 months later, Japan was routed at Midway. Never to make-up their losses. The US had 105 aircraft carriers by the end of WWII. 64 were escort carriers, but still, over 100 aircraft carriers nonetheless.
@@PauloPereira-jj4jv But he did predict 6 months of dominance. He knew after that they would lose. The US had over 100 aircraft carriers during WWII. That's just insane. Over 40 were at the invasion of Okinawa.
Probably not. The cruisers had different roles at different times with different reactions. It really depended on the operators at times. Mikuma's loss is a good example as the crew opted not to ditch the torpedos whereas Mogami's did. The closest I can do to your request is going over their design phase and the discussing their individual actions as can be seen in this video. I'm not going to do a huge video with all of them or compare the actions of one to another. I let the history tell the performance of the ships itself.
Her sister ship HIJMS MOGAMI survived the air attacks do to the fact that following collision, the MOGAMI damage control officer jettisoned everything that might burn or explode The ships float planes, bombs, depth charges, gasoline along with ships torpedoes and reloads This was a serious move as the Long Lance torpedoes were considered the primary weapons. Hits in MIKUMA torpedo flat ignited the kerosene fuel of the torpedoes in turn cooking off the warheads and blowing out the ships bottom
I hope your Thanksgiving was good. It was unfourtunate for the Mikuma to sink, by the accidental ramming of her sister, Mogami, which later on happened again with her. I love this class of heavy cruiser the most in the Imperial Japanese Navy, however, Waldemar Goralski's book on Chikuma, Tone's sister helped me appreaciate that class a bit more. At some point I will get Mogami, and Suzuya in 1/700 scale. Take care, and all the best.
One note of interest. Minima was not removed from the official Japanese registry until August as part of an insane coverup of the midway disaster. Only a very few of the top leadership knew what happened and there was minimal effort to analyze the situation. Mostly it was all about saving face and the aura of invincibility among the general population.
Could you do a video on the Japanese carrier Shinano, especially the reasoning why do they convert it into a replenishment carrier instead of an actual fleet carrier
Hey: Good job. While you're at it, tell us what happened to the Mogami. Also, I notice something. Enterprise dive bomber pilots were good. They were badass with hits. But Hornet's dive bomber pilots really sucked. One hit, then another strike, one hit. Pretty bad shots. Enterprise blasted the Mikuma to the bottom, not Midway or Hornet. Battle of Santa Cruz revealed how bad Hornet's dive bombers were.
Let's see if I can manage this without the video + without Google: four Japanese cruisers (fire support for the Midway Invasion), submarine alarm, Mogami + Mikuma collision, both speeds severely reduced, Dauntless attacks, Mikuma did not throw the "Long Lance" overboard - Game Over! I'll watch the video later, I'm excited
Notes:
It is often said that the wreck of Captain Flemming's aircraft can be seen in the photos, I don't think the photos are good support. That entire location of the ship was demolished by the torpedos detonating, very little is recognizable. There are also no reports of Mikuma's engineering spaces being impacted to any degree prior to being bombed the next day.
This event showed the USN how resilient Japanese cruisers were to taking damage. It was a learning point for future engagements involving them.
You might find this interesting. The attack against Mogami and Mikuma also happened to be the last combat operation for the TBD Devastator. The three surviving TBDs of VT-6 were in the strike, but never pressed their attacks. The squadron leader (Lt. Laub) was specifically ordered by Admiral Spruance (who was still reeling from the loss of so many of his torpedo planes), “if there is one single gun firing out there, under no circumstances are you to attack.”
Appreciate your inclusion of details. For example, the survivors picked up by the Trout: "...a chief radioman and a fireman third class." As a writer of history myself, I have found that this takes more work but really bucks up the story.
You claim to be a writer and you said "bucks up the story"? Sure
@@nathanworthington4451 The phrase works for me.
@@jamesmordovancey517 Its not a phrase you just made it up. Seems suspect that someone who is a self proclaimed "writer of history" would use such an irresponsible literary tactic and then defend it by saying it just works for you. I sincerely hope you dont take such liberties in your historical retrospectives. Liar
Very unlucky class of modern looking IJN heavy cruisers.
The Japanese naval architects adhered to a design of “three” longitudinal bulkheads for their main fleet cruise. The US design required four. Thus point has been considered a weakness of Japanese design with less internal robustness.
However, it’s amazing this cruiser remained afloat after being hit with five 1000 lbs bombs, plus its torpedoes exploding. Tough ship!
I remember seeing photos of Mikuma with the caption that the wreckage of Flemming’s AC could be seen atop the turret and thinking ‘Where?’ So much twisted metal and nothing discernible as parts of an AC.
Great job on your content.
Yes, I've seen that photo caption as well several times.
I first saw the photograph of the devastated ( no pun intended) Mikuma some sixty years ago and was struck by the catastrophic damage. My father had served in the Royal Navy during W.W.2 and had been torpedoed during a convoy to Malta. Additionally he’d also served on the U.S.S.South Dakota as a communication link with our Home Fleet at Scapa. His American shipmates informed him that Japanese survivors from the night battle of Guadalcanal had attempted to knife their rescuers. One can only imagine the horrors that sailors and aircrew suffered. Currently along with soldiers and civilians similar barbarities are being inflicted by those who think territories can be gained and attacked. 👍🏻🏴🇺🇸
Thank you for covering Hornet's involvement at Miday. Her service there often gets overshadowed by her sisters, Yorktown and Enterprise.
If I remember rightly, the Hornet was the Carrier that took the B25's on the Doolittle raid. When asked by the press where the bombers came from, President Roosevelt said "they came from Shangri La" So the press, being the press, announced in typical bold headlines that they were carried aboard the US Shangri La & I have called it that ever since I heard the story.
@@KB10GL Yup, that was her. And then one of the Essex class carriers got named USS Shangri La, 'cos hey, why not?
Thats because her performance at midway was abysmal. Read up on the "flight to nowhere among other things and you will understand.
Nicely done! Thank you for addressing the "American kamikaze" myth, I've read it and heard it too many times.
But the "American kamikaze" story is true! It was my grandfather.... He flew his fully loaded B-52 into the Yamato just after the Mikuma was sunk. Since his plane was laden with 50,000lbs of bombs, it completely destroyed the battleship. He told me all about it when I was a kid. Later he said he became a Navy Seal, and he captured Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam war! 😁
I just found your channel and I enjoy your style. You did the research well, presented your topic directly, and they all have a matter-of-fact ending. Subscribing today.
A parting gift from Enterprise and Hornet. Just before the Midway party comes to an end.
Disclaimer: Not an expert. Just an avid reader of history.
Torpedo and floatplane facilities seem to have been areas of extreme vulnerability for those cruisers who carried them. Amidships catapults (and close by stores of propellant cartridges for their use as well as wonderfully flammable AvGas fuel for the planes) are sited above engine or boiler spaces. Catapults on the fantail are right over the aft steerage accommodation and, of course, the ship's screws. Torpedo launchers (in WW2 era cruisers) were usually sited aft of the funnels; a collection of 500+ pound warheads sitting under splinter protection on the main deck in a perfect place to blow the ship in half. If these cook off, due to fire or impact, it usually spells the end of the ship.
Modern shipborne aviation facilities mount no explosive powered catapults, and carry less dangerous kerosene-like fuels. Modern (cold war and later) cruisers are a mixed bag as far as torpedo armament goes. Rather than tubes, cruisers might carry ASROC launched torpedoes. A question might be raised about the difference of vulnerability between a VLS magazine (for cruise missiles, AA missiles, and ASW weapons) and a rifle (cannon) powder magazine of WW2 vintage.
As always, the more of your "splodey stuff" you can hide behind armor (and/or under the waterline), the better your chances of survival in a slugfest. Torpedoes, Depth Charges, AvGas tanks, fueled up floatplanes, and aircraft ordnance sitting on your deck are serious liabilities when your ship is under attack from the air and sea.
1:18 I thought it was interesting you found a picture of what is likely Mogami with the damaged bow. The image clearly shows what appears to be a Mogami-class cruiser with the three 8" turrets and the bow bent to port just forward of the foremost gun turret. I can see why this damage would have created a lot of problems for Mogami, and why she would have been throwing up a huge bow wave when travelling at her fastest possible speed at that time (due to the damage). I had never seen that image before. Nice find.
The Japanese heavy cruisers did absorb a great amount of damage. Certainly Mikuma stayed afloat long after she had been turned into a wreck. I have also ran into numerous reports that the system of damage control on the ships sometimes caused the loss of the ship when it could have been saved by the Japanese policy of making damage control a special and separate part of the ships crew.
There was also a policy of strict adherence to your job… and cross training and personal initiative was strongly discouraged…. So if the damage control team was wiped out….there was little trained backup
Good work. Very interesting too.
Fantastic video.
Almost all the written accounts of Midway either omit the Mikuma altogether or just mention it in passing. I always wondered what the real story was. Thanks for filling in that gap.
First time I heard the "why" of Mogami's collision. I had hitherto wondered if her captain was at fault. You video clears up the confusion. Thanks.
Yamamoto predicted that with the Pearl Harbor attack, Japan would control the Pacific for 6 months, then the sleeping bear would wake-up and defeat them.
6 months later, Japan was routed at Midway. Never to make-up their losses.
The US had 105 aircraft carriers by the end of WWII. 64 were escort carriers, but still, over 100 aircraft carriers nonetheless.
Sleeping "giant". Not bear. Anyway, there is no evidence that he ever said these words. Just another myth.
@@PauloPereira-jj4jv But he did predict 6 months of dominance. He knew after that they would lose.
The US had over 100 aircraft carriers during WWII. That's just insane. Over 40 were at the invasion of Okinawa.
Great presentation. The art is very impressive. Do you have any information on them? I would love to see more depictions of the carriers.
Can you do a video about the overall performance of Japanese heavy cruisers in the war?
Probably not. The cruisers had different roles at different times with different reactions. It really depended on the operators at times. Mikuma's loss is a good example as the crew opted not to ditch the torpedos whereas Mogami's did. The closest I can do to your request is going over their design phase and the discussing their individual actions as can be seen in this video. I'm not going to do a huge video with all of them or compare the actions of one to another. I let the history tell the performance of the ships itself.
A gentle burn...
A similar story was spread a few months earlier about Colin Kelly and his B-17 in the Philippines. America was desperate for heroes in 1942.
Her sister ship HIJMS MOGAMI survived the air attacks do to the fact that following collision, the MOGAMI damage control officer jettisoned everything that might burn or explode The ships float planes, bombs, depth charges, gasoline along with ships torpedoes and reloads This was a serious move as the Long Lance torpedoes were considered the primary weapons. Hits in MIKUMA torpedo flat ignited the kerosene fuel of the torpedoes in turn cooking off the warheads and blowing out the ships bottom
Solid informative video. Well done...
Thank you so much for this Thanksgiving treat!! Hope you enjoyed your day!
Love,
David
I hope your Thanksgiving was good.
It was unfourtunate for the Mikuma to sink, by the accidental ramming of her sister, Mogami, which later on happened again with her.
I love this class of heavy cruiser the most in the Imperial Japanese Navy, however, Waldemar Goralski's book on Chikuma, Tone's sister helped me appreaciate that class a bit more.
At some point I will get Mogami, and Suzuya in 1/700 scale.
Take care, and all the best.
One note of interest. Minima was not removed from the official Japanese registry until August as part of an insane coverup of the midway disaster. Only a very few of the top leadership knew what happened and there was minimal effort to analyze the situation. Mostly it was all about saving face and the aura of invincibility among the general population.
Great men...
Well done, many thanks
Very well presented video!
Keep up the good work.
Could you do a video on the Japanese carrier Shinano, especially the reasoning why do they convert it into a replenishment carrier instead of an actual fleet carrier
great story ive not heard before.
Screen captured some stuff for my archival purposes, Ty.
Can you make a video about IJN doctrines?
Read Capt Flemings MOH citation. A 25 year old. A man among men.
A rail gun on a tricycle?
😮
😮 wow
Hey: Good job. While you're at it, tell us what happened to the Mogami. Also, I notice something. Enterprise dive bomber pilots were good. They were badass with hits. But Hornet's dive bomber pilots really sucked. One hit, then another strike, one hit. Pretty bad shots. Enterprise blasted the Mikuma to the bottom, not Midway or Hornet. Battle of Santa Cruz revealed how bad Hornet's dive bombers were.
Let's see if I can manage this without the video + without Google:
four Japanese cruisers (fire support for the Midway Invasion), submarine alarm, Mogami + Mikuma collision, both speeds severely reduced, Dauntless attacks, Mikuma did not throw the "Long Lance" overboard - Game Over!
I'll watch the video later, I'm excited