Long story short, These ones don’t, the n54 pumps were by in large, the problem child. Short story long, I’ve confirmed that with a few BMW techs including searching the forums myself. The plastic ones commonly found on the n54 were smoldering piles of garbage and made by continental, the forums are flooded with posts about them, some were ringers and could go 200k, but many failed before then. There was a pump that looks similar to this, but is much lower flow, the CWA200, that was used on the N51/N52/N52N. Didn’t do much research into that pump because I really wasn’t interested in the lower flow rate. The CWA400 pump, which is what this is, has been largely very reliable, and is found on the n20. Both the CWA200 and CWA400 are made by pierburg While it’s the newest of the pumps, some people have already been putting 100k+ miles on them without issue. I bought the one for my truck with 52k miles, and I’ve put probably another 18k on it since. I’m not worried, but, with how cheap they were on eBay, I bought a spare just in case.
I was wondering if you could run one of those high flow BMW pumps with Terminator, one quick search and I immediately find this video. Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to show this.
i literally was just looking at this pump and i really appreciate your groundwork on this pump. I have megasquirt so ill be ordering this pump and returning the BBC pump and running this instead.
Thank you for the great video. I wanted to use this pump in a daily driver so heater is needed. It's there Reason the thermostat can be ran in the original location on the LS water pump? Thank you for the help. Ahmad
@@boostnhoe yes and no. You would need to replicate coolant flow EXACTLY the way the LS water pump does it. Essentially suck coolant from the front side casting and discharge to the rear half of the pump, a dividing plate would need to be installed where the pump impeller used to be.
Can’t remember what other people have used, I just shaved an aluminum hole saw punch out on the belt sander until a 4lb sledge could stick it in. Freeze plug would be preferable IMO.
Just found your channel. Can you go more in detail on gutting the stock pump, running a heater core, and running this pump? I'm doing a build where i have the LS3 pump, but now have to mount the radiator in the bed of this 1958 Apache truck. Twin turbo. I don't know if this stock mechanical pump will work with the rear mount radiator.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Not completely bypassed, but using pwm like you have without an activation time delay. My ecu doesn't have activation time delay, but i think i can work my way around it with some conditions such as 0 rpm and time greater than 0.1 sec.
@@linkems just wake it up using 50% duty @150hz as your base speed. That would properly wake it up, I can try without the time delay tomorrow and see what it does
I had a look at the pwm info on this pump as well as watching another video and it seems that anything above 13% duty will be enough to operate the pump. I don't think the activation time delay on your ecu has any effect on the pumps operation. How has your pump been going? still running good?
@@linkems it was running great until I gave her some muriatic acid. Destroyed the upper bearing lol. Was still spinning, just noisy. Replaced with another $50 pump that had 119k on it and it's been great.
You need a pull-up resistor, period. 1k, 5k,10k, etc. Doesn't matter as long as the pump works. It will not work any differently so long as pump sees a pwm signal. Too much resistor, pwm isn't visible to the pump, too little resistor, you unnecessarily draw too much current generating the pwm signal and risk damaging the Holley output driver. So no, it does not HAVE to be a 1k ohm resistor.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Ah yes you are correct! Thank you. But even then as you say, as long as a pwm is present the pump will function properly?? The pull down is needed only in case of pwm output malfunction or disconnect right?
@@christos8189 the pull-up resistor that you add is to create the needed 12V+ to the pwm signal. The termx can only pwm to ground. If you don't use a pull-up resistor, nothing is providing positive voltage, so no duty cycle is detected by the pump. No voltage present, pump is off. Conversely, a 12V signal is seen as 100% duty cycle. With no pwm signal provided (again, we are using a pull up resistor here) the pump sees 100% duty cycle, which puts the pump at 95% rated speed. The output table uses values inverse to conventional wisdom, because you are pwm'ing to ground. 20% duty in Holley is really 80% duty to the pump.
No reason it wouldn’t work. Mine has been great. I carry a spare used pump on long trips just in case it fails but I don’t worry much about it otherwise. If you are asking if it’s “enough pump” for your combo, the answer is yes
Awesome! Thanks for the quick response. I was researching Davies Craig kits and ran across your video. Super informative. I run Holley's HP ecm and am already using it to control my pwm cooling fans so I was stoked to see this. $400+ vs $100, no brainer. Thanks again.
Thanks for the video. Cool stuff. How do you think this pump would work for a closed loop air to water intercooler system? I haven't looked up Bosch pump specs to compare, but clearly 40mm ports flow multiple times more than 19. But perhaps the restrictions of an AWIC system might not be an ideal use case?
I want to run this pump on a 2.3 Ford engine for street and drag racing. Can I eliminate the thermostat completely and control engine temperature on the street with with my Holley PWM output.
How does this installation change with Holley dominator? Is the pull-up resistor avoided if we use pwm+ and the black wire instead of the red wire for signal? Sorry I just barely understand it yet.
ECU master probably does the same thing that Holly does and pulse's ground. If you use a pull-up resistor whether it's internal or external and pulse ground the signal sent to the computer will look inverse to the table output.
Twin turbo lq4 with a forged bottom end. Still daily driving it with this setup, still on the same pump, even added a thermostat to the setup for winter driving.
josh butcher one was 55k, 75k and 110k. They should last 200k or more IMO. From bmw techs I’ve heard from, they rarely ever replace this style. They do a lot of the earlier style ones though. Fcp also sells them new for 274 with a lifetime warranty. Honestly it’s not a bad deal at All.
@@TheRealChuckStefanski if that's the core size, it will work alright, never used the contour fans myself, but if they flow well, you probably just need the transportation of BTU's and the cwa400 will deliver
~6 mins in and I'm already a fan. Just like a radiator that you don't want to gush (see what I did there?)... I've got more hardcore gearhead information in 6 mins (more than I spend on my GF) than in an entire video elseware. It's like there is a knowledgeable rodder down the street who is willing to share GR8T advice. Ok, gushed a little. Anyhoot. This is a SUB worthy video. And I may even SUB, Un-SUB and SUB again to make sure it went through. As for the
For real. Most don't even fail until well after 100k. My truck ran a 170k used unit for 3 years before I killed it with pool acid lol. It still ran, but I destroyed the upper bearing. People think this is the same pump as the n54, it's not, not even close.
LoL! These routinely fail at 60K! BMW FORUMS ARE FULL OF THREADS OF HOW UNRELIABLE THESE ELECTRIC WATER PUMPS ARE
Long story short, These ones don’t, the n54 pumps were by in large, the problem child.
Short story long, I’ve confirmed that with a few BMW techs including searching the forums myself. The plastic ones commonly found on the n54 were smoldering piles of garbage and made by continental, the forums are flooded with posts about them, some were ringers and could go 200k, but many failed before then. There was a pump that looks similar to this, but is much lower flow, the CWA200, that was used on the N51/N52/N52N. Didn’t do much research into that pump because I really wasn’t interested in the lower flow rate. The CWA400 pump, which is what this is, has been largely very reliable, and is found on the n20. Both the CWA200 and CWA400 are made by pierburg While it’s the newest of the pumps, some people have already been putting 100k+ miles on them without issue. I bought the one for my truck with 52k miles, and I’ve put probably another 18k on it since. I’m not worried, but, with how cheap they were on eBay, I bought a spare just in case.
I have 197.000 miles on my BMW, original water pump. Check your information, thoroughly, before bashing people.
I was wondering if you could run one of those high flow BMW pumps with Terminator, one quick search and I immediately find this video. Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to show this.
Anytime!
You're my Saving Grace right now I am currently switching to a rear-mounted radiator setup. I wasn't trying to spend $1,500 so thank you
i literally was just looking at this pump and i really appreciate your groundwork on this pump. I have megasquirt so ill be ordering this pump and returning the BBC pump and running this instead.
This is awesome dude. Definitely going to switch to this pump when I go electric.
The N20 engine in the UK at least uses part number ending in 715 which is the CWA200
Interesting, it's definitely the 400 here.
My 2013 BMW uses the 400.
Thank you for the great video. I wanted to use this pump in a daily driver so heater is needed. It's there Reason the thermostat can be ran in the original location on the LS water pump? Thank you for the help.
Ahmad
@@boostnhoe yes and no. You would need to replicate coolant flow EXACTLY the way the LS water pump does it. Essentially suck coolant from the front side casting and discharge to the rear half of the pump, a dividing plate would need to be installed where the pump impeller used to be.
Any idea if the ebay /amazon whatever clones are still good?
Great instructional video. Be interesting to see if the 32 mm freeze plug and the water pump would like a .039 press fit?
Can’t remember what other people have used, I just shaved an aluminum hole saw punch out on the belt sander until a 4lb sledge could stick it in. Freeze plug would be preferable IMO.
Can you remember what watt resistor you used
So how do you wire using it on a drag car?
Very helpful! The only video I found that gives this information. Thank you
Well done. Thx for posting this
Just found your channel.
Can you go more in detail on gutting the stock pump, running a heater core, and running this pump?
I'm doing a build where i have the LS3 pump, but now have to mount the radiator in the bed of this 1958 Apache truck. Twin turbo. I don't know if this stock mechanical pump will work with the rear mount radiator.
Find me on Instagram and message me, I can help you better that way. Same handle
Great work!!! Can I use this pump without PWM at 95 100 %. ? If so how do I hook it up
Yes, feed the signal wire 12v
Great in depth video, will the pump run without an activation time delay?
Yes, if you provide 12v+ to the signal wire it will go straight to 95%
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Not completely bypassed, but using pwm like you have without an activation time delay. My ecu doesn't have activation time delay, but i think i can work my way around it with some conditions such as 0 rpm and time greater than 0.1 sec.
@@linkems just wake it up using 50% duty @150hz as your base speed. That would properly wake it up, I can try without the time delay tomorrow and see what it does
I had a look at the pwm info on this pump as well as watching another video and it seems that anything above 13% duty will be enough to operate the pump. I don't think the activation time delay on your ecu has any effect on the pumps operation. How has your pump been going? still running good?
@@linkems it was running great until I gave her some muriatic acid. Destroyed the upper bearing lol. Was still spinning, just noisy. Replaced with another $50 pump that had 119k on it and it's been great.
Great video! Picked mine up for $75 on eBay used. One thing, you HAVE TO USE 1k ohm resistor or else this will not have correct voltage.
You need a pull-up resistor, period. 1k, 5k,10k, etc. Doesn't matter as long as the pump works. It will not work any differently so long as pump sees a pwm signal. Too much resistor, pwm isn't visible to the pump, too little resistor, you unnecessarily draw too much current generating the pwm signal and risk damaging the Holley output driver. So no, it does not HAVE to be a 1k ohm resistor.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Data on the pump says it has a pull up resistor built in, so what prevents the pwm of the holley driver from working with it??
Christos you read that wrong, the signal has a 10kohm pull down resistor built in.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers Ah yes you are correct! Thank you. But even then as you say, as long as a pwm is present the pump will function properly?? The pull down is needed only in case of pwm output malfunction or disconnect right?
@@christos8189 the pull-up resistor that you add is to create the needed 12V+ to the pwm signal. The termx can only pwm to ground. If you don't use a pull-up resistor, nothing is providing positive voltage, so no duty cycle is detected by the pump. No voltage present, pump is off.
Conversely, a 12V signal is seen as 100% duty cycle. With no pwm signal provided (again, we are using a pull up resistor here) the pump sees 100% duty cycle, which puts the pump at 95% rated speed. The output table uses values inverse to conventional wisdom, because you are pwm'ing to ground. 20% duty in Holley is really 80% duty to the pump.
You are the man! Nice video!
Would this setup be be suitable for a supercharged sbc stroker used as a daily driver?
No reason it wouldn’t work. Mine has been great. I carry a spare used pump on long trips just in case it fails but I don’t worry much about it otherwise. If you are asking if it’s “enough pump” for your combo, the answer is yes
Awesome! Thanks for the quick response. I was researching Davies Craig kits and ran across your video. Super informative. I run Holley's HP ecm and am already using it to control my pwm cooling fans so I was stoked to see this. $400+ vs $100, no brainer. Thanks again.
gotti1034 no problem, you’ll love it.
Thanks for the video. Cool stuff. How do you think this pump would work for a closed loop air to water intercooler system? I haven't looked up Bosch pump specs to compare, but clearly 40mm ports flow multiple times more than 19. But perhaps the restrictions of an AWIC system might not be an ideal use case?
Do you know if the pump can be mounted in the vertical position? with the suction pointed down?
You can mount it however you want, as long as you get all the air out of the system.
I want to run this pump on a 2.3 Ford engine for street and drag racing. Can I eliminate the thermostat completely and control engine temperature on the street with with my Holley PWM output.
Yes, but just understand that the temp control is going to be bouncy.
How does this installation change with Holley dominator? Is the pull-up resistor avoided if we use pwm+ and the black wire instead of the red wire for signal? Sorry I just barely understand it yet.
Yeah just use pwm + and it will work. Also, pump speed will follow duty cycle instead of working inversely.
With PWM+ on a Dominator will I need the pull up resistor? I don’t understand pull up resistors.
Excellent information. Thank you.
do you know why the table is inverse? i saw same thing running ecumaster black.
ECU master probably does the same thing that Holly does and pulse's ground. If you use a pull-up resistor whether it's internal or external and pulse ground the signal sent to the computer will look inverse to the table output.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers ok makes sense. yes ecumaster pulsed ground
58gpm WOW
brisbonvq at 8psi no less
By any chance would you happen to know the in/out port sizes?
1.5" on both
Super video. What motor setup are you cooling with it?
Twin turbo lq4 with a forged bottom end. Still daily driving it with this setup, still on the same pump, even added a thermostat to the setup for winter driving.
Any links for the pump? All I am finding are 300 plus and new. Which models and years they on?
Look up, what year BMWs had the N20 engine.
Where did you find the pump for $100, did you source a used one?
Used, eBay, I’ve bought 3 so far, all between 55 and 60. Used the ball ever Motorsports pigtail which cost $20
@@scrapmetal_sleepers what kind of milage are you picking them up at and about what milage would you estimate they last?
josh butcher one was 55k, 75k and 110k. They should last 200k or more IMO. From bmw techs I’ve heard from, they rarely ever replace this style. They do a lot of the earlier style ones though. Fcp also sells them new for 274 with a lifetime warranty. Honestly it’s not a bad deal at All.
Has anyone had success with running this pump at max for an extended amount of time, a few hours at a time?
I accidentally flashed over my tune with one that didn't have the pin mapped and it was in emergency mode for an hour. Never had an issue.
@@scrapmetal_sleepers I feel like my F3r procharged big block chevy with rear mount radiator will need to run at max speed to keep it cool.
@@TheRealChuckStefanski not likely. 50-75% is most likely all you'll need unless the rear rad is undersized. What's the core size?
15x28 with oem contour fans on it.
@@TheRealChuckStefanski if that's the core size, it will work alright, never used the contour fans myself, but if they flow well, you probably just need the transportation of BTU's and the cwa400 will deliver
How many cfms? Thats important
Water pumps aren't rated in CFM! LOL
I was under the impression that this pump did not need PWM control
Not needed if you don't want speed control. Kind of a waste of power to have it on kill all the time though. It pulls nearly 40 amps
~6 mins in and I'm already a fan. Just like a radiator that you don't want to gush (see what I did there?)... I've got more hardcore gearhead information in 6 mins (more than I spend on my GF) than in an entire video elseware. It's like there is a knowledgeable rodder down the street who is willing to share GR8T advice. Ok, gushed a little. Anyhoot. This is a SUB worthy video. And I may even SUB, Un-SUB and SUB again to make sure it went through. As for the
LOL at everyone commenting on these failing at 50kish miles. How many hot rods ever see 50k miles 😀
For real. Most don't even fail until well after 100k. My truck ran a 170k used unit for 3 years before I killed it with pool acid lol. It still ran, but I destroyed the upper bearing. People think this is the same pump as the n54, it's not, not even close.
Lmao these fail under 50k miles. All of them OEM and aftermarket
I have a 2013 BMW N20 with 197,000 miles on it. Still original water pump!