Thanks for this video. It helped me determine I was working either with a dead cable or the wrong cable at a friends house which is new construction. After not getting any tone or signal I looked more closely at the panel in the garage and noticed 3 more cat-5 cables had been stuff up inside the top of the cabinet. After pulling those back out of the sheet rock all went well.
I like the wet finger method with turning up the volume of the probe and placed close to the ear. Guess the high resistance of the human body and some inductive/capacitive coupling does the trick. Innovation of an experienced technician.
Ron, Thank you for the detailed yet concise explanation. I got the XQ-350 which works great (so far) but was very cheap. Instructions on the "fall out manual" are pretty looking but nearly useless (and sometimes mislabeled). Though the probe is pretty easy to figure out, you made it clear and brought out some good tips. And interoperation of probes and receivers is a bonus tip only gotten from an experienced tech. I also noticed the use of one signal wire was better for tracing twisted pair but was not sure I was "doing it right". Now I know. I also noticed cross talk and you confirmed what I guessed, so now I dont need to worry about finding a short between wires. With experience, I imagine I will learn to distinguish short from cross talk. Your product is more expensive but obviously better made. Mine is VERY cheap plastic, manual is POOR and falls out of "pocket" in the pretty nice holster. It works surprisingly well (sensitive) for a cheapy. Hope it does not die early like many cheapies. Thats the trade off we make. Now that I am retired, I cant look at the stuff I used to work with. Anyway, Thank you Nice tutorial.
Very Nice, 19 years in the field and still enjoy learning new tricks. Another cool trick is if you have to find a cable plugged into a network switch you can use pins 7,8 tone and you’ll find your cable. Saved me on many jobs.
I needed Internet proof to backup my argument that toners and probes don't work through a wall. You directly answered that. Thanks. But, I'm really commenting to say that this is one of the best how-to videos I've seen on RUclips. The only thing I learned was about the wet finger/probe to the ear idea. But I kept watching because you know the tool so well. I wasn't sure what else I might learn. You covered pretty much every negative aspect of the tool there is as well as ways to get around it. Great job. I'm going to watch some more of your videos to see what other tips I might pick up.
I remember nearly a decade ago, as a rookie CATV installer...trying to tone out a line...I was holding every single line in my left hand, and letting one go at a time to probe them.... of course the one line I needed was lighting up my entire body so it seemed that every single line was toning out. I chuckle at it these days, I've seen it happen with trainees plenty of times.
I love how open and honest you are about everything, and how you don't try making some statement about "proprietary" _____________ (fill in the blank). Subscribing.
Amazing video. I wanna sk about what if I wanna tone the neutral and ground wires at my home. Do i need to trum the power off from the electrical panel?
@@RonKipperDatacomm1 That's right: I have a bunch of wires that were poorly labelled by the builder. I've struggled with identifying them with my ohm meter. Time to get serious with a tone and probe!
i work for dish network and if we didnt have cable toners some jobs would either take a lot longer to trace cables or sometimes even impossible. One time when i was a travel tech i was sent to orlando for 2 weeks and my toner fell out of my tool pouch somewhere at a job and didnt realize it till the next day when i really really needed it. Luckily i was able to use my super sat buddy satellite meter and a power inserter for a 44 switch. I went to each room and i connected the power inserter to the cable jack then went to the junction box and connected one cable at a time to the bottom port on the meter until the red power light lit up telling me that the coax cable has power coming thru it. It can be a very very slow process especially if its a huge house but its a nice trick to know about to use as a backup incase u lose ur toner lol
***** i agree, i had a phone guy come into an office where i worked, he set up some new phones in a sea of wires near the d mark. It was the best tool i ever found left behind from a kimf teck. Now you can buy them any where but, 15 years ago hard to find, i use it to trace all sorts of circuits and correct messes from bad contractors
Ron, thanks so much for this video. It's very helpful. I have one Cat6 cable in my server room that is putting out a REALLY loud buzz when I put the toner against it. In fact, the buzz is louder than the power cables of any equipment nearby. I'm assuming this means that a device (in this case a linksys router) is leaking power down a data cable. Have you run into this before? Any solutions? Thanks, Rick
Hi Ron, I work in a telephone exchange and I have never used such devices! And I want to ask you: Is the tone produced by that device is different from the regular tone found on a phone line so it will make a unique sound on the probe (tracker)? In other shape, Can the Probe detect the pair with the tone produced by the device between other lines?
We started outsourcing our IT work about 8 years ago when our IT guy moved on to another company. Every now and then I'll have to get in to his old toolbox to find something and this toner and probe was in there. I've never seen one, had no idea what it was. 15 minutes ago it was a mystery. Now I feel like I could use one of these like a pro...once I find a couple of 9v batteries that is.
barleywells I would try and make a homemade adapter using RCA plugs with a small piece of cable handing out of it that separates the center conductor and the shielding that you can connect the alligator clips to. Good luck with the tracing. Ron
Hi Ron...Great video - very informative/ educational!! All of the cables run underground (at some point) so, I wonder if perhaps we should be looking at 'Cable Tracers' instead?? A point you raise in your video.
The cheapest way is with the tone and probe like the one I show in the video. They can get you close to the cable you are looking for. We do sell cable tracers but they are over $1000.
The commoning issue is why you should use olde style 66 blocks, or in the UK, Krone 237 disconnection modules... allows you to isolate a cable (or multiple cables) without having to faff about disconnecting wires
If you have a 120v circuit that has been tripped at the breaker, but you cant tell which breaker it is in the panel, can you send a tone down the black wire and then use the probe at the panel to find the right one? (since the neutrals and grounds are all connected) I know that there are circuit breaker tracers, but the circuit has to be live to use them.
+Kenny Bender Kenny most tracers will trace live or dead circuits at least ours does here is a link ruclips.net/video/CqOVXwxfHDw/видео.html are not cheap though. You should be able to use the T&P though I would verify the circuit is off with a tester first but it should work. The toner should be used only on dead circuits. If you like give me a call 815-341-3537. Ron
toning out phone and data cables definatly looks like it can be wayyyy more complicating than toning out coax. Ive always wondered how the phone company techs figure out which wires to use out at the telecom pedestals and sometimes ive even seen them have to go down the street to i guess big junction boxes to connect the pedestal closest to the customer. Ive looked inside of them and there are soooo many color coded wires but there are many of them the same color so i have no clue how they can know which is which. Very interesting, im actually trying to get on with at&t to get some experience in that field and hopefuly move onto a phone company like windstream
10:20 (toning a data port that's connected to a switch/router) I have a Greenlee 701K-G/6A set, and toning a connected cable *does* work. The reason it normally doesn't work is because the RJ11/RJ45 coming out of the toner applies tone to pins 4 & 5, which are twisted together. When I made a custom connector splitting them onto different pairs, I got a definitive response on a cable connected to a switch (Dlink DGS-1024D). I similarly got a tone on a cable connected to my ADSL router (a TP link), except in this case the tone bled through to all of the other cables connected to it. I assume this will be the same case with your Ideal tone & probes, so I think it just depends on which switch you use. Some will work, some won't.
My problem 2 wires twisted together 30 feet long one wire is cut not shorted TONER detector will show both wires as good at the end of wires both wires will beep but one wire was cut TONE SIGNAL will be transfered to the bad wire that was twisted with good one USELESS TOOL LEARN the hard way
If a water line burried over 5ft deep has a tracer tape, will a Stationmaster Pro locate it? (Marketed for irrigation work) I would put the signal on the tracer tape and just clamp the common wire to a ground (screwdriver jammed into the dirt)
Can these be used for wiring on cars? Restoring a classic car and need to fix a few things. I live near a 100,000 watt Country music station's transmitter tower. Will I hear music if I get one of these?
Yes you can use it for tracing wires in a car keep in mind both end of the wire should be open or not connected to something else and you may hear some music! Ron
Michael you can put a tone on anything made of metal and make sure the power is off as it can damage the toner. The probe is meant to find the other end of a cable not for tracing behind walls but it may give you some indication of where the wire goes. Good luck Ron
So you said no AC voltage on the lines but then you also said that both ends really need to be open, other than the connected toner. So, really no voltage AC or DC, both ends open, or the toner will be shorted out and no tone. Am I understanding that correctly? I appreciate the tip. about using different pairs on a cat 5 that could help but my issue is usually with existing phone lines, not being able to trace them because they have phone signal.
Stephen yes you are the toner works best with both ends opened and no voltage present. If you attach the toner to a pair that is terminated into some type of equipment it will probably short the toner and you loose the tone. Hope that helps Ron
ohhnight, just tried it thx. I have a question regarding if the unit is defective or not. I'll hold it on a wire in the same spot and sometimes its louder but sometimes its a softer sound. Is that a bad speaker or something? Is that something I should return it over? exchange for another one?
Those toners typically have several different types of tones they will produce. The idea is you can use two toners set to different tones and trace both with the probe. Try holding the tone button down and usually it will cycle through the different tones it will make. Good luck Ron
JC saw this online hope it helps Ron The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around 48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office. This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts.
Hello do you know how to trace and pin point where the short is in a wire with test light or multimeter?I found how to find the circuit but cant find info on how to actual trace the short down other then buying this tool
Finding a short can be tricky a TDR can give you distances to a short and we do sell the Suretrace circuit tracer for finding a short but that can be expensive. I don't think a multimeter will do you much good. Good luck Ron
it depends on your level of experience you see, a Multimeter can help you ..... ONLY IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO KNOW - The length of the cable - The Resistance per meter then you can measure the circuit resistance and conclude the approx distance to fault BUT, THAT'S REALLY GOING OVERBOARD an easier method, Like ron said is T.D.R. (Time domain Reflectometry) basically a meter that uses the concept of SPEED = DISTANCE OVER TIME (Basic Physics) and with the knowledge of Velocity of Propogation through a wire and ASSUMING YOU SET THE WIRE GUAGE UP CORRECTLY . it will tell you the approx distance to the fault , be it open or short I use a FLUKE TS54-TDR for this purpose, it's really good and has served me well for years another thing you can do DEPENDING ON THE CABLE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT Let's assume it's a Cat5e UTP cable Ensure you have no voltage on the line put a tone on one end Follow the cable with your want until the tone dies in saying that....... if the cable is damaged at some point and that damage causes a short, You ain't gonna get jack shit for a tone even if the other end is open circuit but re your question tools like this do not tell you how to do everything it's more like this ...... when you buy a voltage regulator from jaycar. it doesn't come with wiring instructions, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO KNOW HOW TO WIRE IT UP Based on your fundamentsl electronics knowledge or technical knowledge Just like a Multimeter doesn't tell you how to check the voltage of a car battery but the manual does tell you how to put it into V DC Mode so... your toner manual is not going to answer your question YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW TO USE A TONER BEFORE YOU BUY IT if you don't know, you shouldn't be doing this kind of work in the end though, it's not hard to figure out, but... Toning and tracing cables TAKES IMAGINATION AND you draw on your experience and knowledge to apply the tone in certain situations Example...... Let's say i have a fluke TS54-TDR which has a basic tone function in it, just like any toner EXCEPT this one has exact pair identification which means if i short the 2 wires that the tone is on the tone will change Now. let's say i also have a Teletech loop a line , which can tone through Telecomms voltage , but the other meter can't, but the loop a line does not have exact pair ID but it can control an Oscillator to remotely open circuit or close circuit and allow me to test resistance now... let's say i tone a cable from one end with the TS54 TDR and i get tone up to a point. i then go to the other end (say the pit in the street) and i put on the loop a line because i have a spare toner Now 1. if i go back to the mid point, on one end i should get the tone from the TS54 and on the other wire i should get another tone from the loop a line 2. if i was to join the 2 wires I WOULD GET A COMBINATION OF BOTH TONES ON 1 WIRE, hence knowing im on the correct wire how is this useful well... if the tone from the loop a line was just induced from a close by wire WHEN I CONNECTED THEM I WOULD NOT GET BOTH TONES SO... DO YOU SEE it's about thinking outside of the box and knowing what your equipment can do and how you can use it in many scenario's USE YOUR IMAGINATION but until you get experienced YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A TDR METER
Hi Cupid the tone and probe can trace any type of cable as long as it is not live or have an active circuit. Just make sure to disconnect both ends of the cable. If you are just trying to find a breaker look at IDEAL's 61-532 or 61-534. Have fun Ron
I had some issues with the wide range of wire probes in the market. Especially from many of the China brands that is saturated on the market with a price half or as near as fluke with tones of neat feature. But here's the difference , majority china brands are able to detect tones if the connectors were not plugged into the ports. However, if the connectors were connected into the port of the device, this china probe tools weren't able to detect any tones generated from the tone generator. Even it does, it's too faint too hear which is a huge problem if the cables were tied together. I won't be able to check which is the right cable. As i know, fluke is more like a precision professional tool but with a sharp price tag. The price tag pretty much adhere accordingly to price vs features. I'm not sure if this product of Fluke pro3000 had such issues of unable to detect the wires if it happens to be plugged into the port of the device. Need your advise. THanks.
+Darkskies Vincor If you plug the tone generator into a port of an active switch or at the outlet. The switch effectively shorts the toner and you will get no tone or very little. That is true with any of the tone generator. Both ends of a cable need to open to trace the cable. Hope that helps. Ron
Edward Walker Ed no you cannot it will either lose the signal completely or bled into everything. As a general rule both ends of a cable need to be open with nothing attached to them to trace.Godd luck
Ron Kipper Datacomm I think we have a miscommunication going on here. You state in the Video to watch another video that goes more in depth that you already made. This video is from 4 years ago. I am on a phone so I can't search and I don't want to scroll through 4 years of videos to see the one video you told me to go watch. You would get a lot more views if you included a hyperlink to your suggested video in the description of this video as well as reply to my message. Are we on the same bandwidth now?
OK sorry for the confusion the links are in an annotation at about 4:30 in the video but here they are.IDEAL Tone and Proberuclips.net/video/0uUw70652cU/видео.html TraceToneruclips.net/video/xelz8zJOh0E/видео.html that helpsRon
Ron - thanks for the video. I am a jackass homeowner and trying to sort out what the ding-a-ling installer did at my house. Bought the Toner/Probe unit from Klein. I thought that if I plugged in the RJ jack on the tone generator into the wall that a tone would be generated back to the panel, then I would identify all the jacks around the house. Problem is - nothing is being generated into the jack from the tone generator. Does the male jack from the tone generator make a tone that I can take the probe into the panel and find the tone and identify the wire. What am I doing wrong? P.S. Have even done the above on known jack outlets and wires at the panel and it isn't working.
Doug I am not sure which toner and probe you have but I would turn on the toner and check the probe is picking up the signal before inserting the toner into the outlet. If you insert the toner in the outlet and you lose the signal there is a short somewhere that is canceling the signal the toner generates. Or if the other end of the cable is connected to something it can be shorting the tone too. Both end of the cable need to be open when tracing the cable. Hope that helps Ron
I have used toners for years. I want to thank you for showing the tips that you gave. I learned a lot!!! Ignore the detractors, they're trolls. One question - do you find it harder to trace Cat6 vs Cat5 in the walls....or should I buy a better toner?
Hey Andy good to hear from you. The tone and probe are really good if you know where both ends of a cable are but not so good trying to trace in walls. Cat 6 may be harder due to more twisting in the cable. To avoid that use two wires not twisted together to apply the tone to. The probe will get you kind of close behind the wall but not exactly. We do sell cable tracers but they start at about $900 and do a good job of tracing in walls. Good luck with the cable Ron
Thanks I'll try that next time it comes up. As for the people saying 8 minutes wasted or bla bla, either they don't work in the industry or they are idiots. Yes, it takes 2 seconds to learn how to tone, your tips show HOW TO REALLY TONE.
Hi andy, if i can contribute some insight from my extensive experience.... Cat 6 vs 5e or 5 because i'm guessing when you say Cat 5, You're talking about 5e. ok, first of all Understand the cable construction, it's U.T.P. No shielding , but uses natural shielding in the form of twists per metre so ... you have that to overcome as Ron said Next, you can't just say HOW DO I TRACE A UTP CABLE IN A WALL what sort of wall ??? Fibro, Concrete, Brick, Double Brick, timber cladded ?? etc.. let's first put aside that you generall wouldn't trace the cable in the wall to begin with YOU COULD EXPLORE THIS OPTION Get yourself a stuff finder that has the ability to detect assetts like Power cable, and... MAKE SURE IT HAS A SCREEN that displays what it is seeing Meaning..... some stud finder just beep at you and display 1 LED for a stud or beam (which basically works on a concept of measurement of density in a wall) then another for LED if power cables are detected , which works on a concept of detection of induction of an electromagnetic field, basically a glorified volt stick but.. doing it this way , you are not going to find UTP cables in a wall, i mean.. maybe.. but.. i wouldn't trust it however, if you have a visual screen you can identify what is detected BASED ON IT'S SHAPE and a 3 core power cable will look significantly different to a UTP Cable that you're trying to find or... You could spend a bit more and buy an assett detector which again... Detects differences in density in a wall. ARE THEY ACCURATE....... FUCK NO but, if you had a screen , it helps a lot Now.. the way toning works is Optimally you want to tone at the ends of the pairs You DO NOT want to have a short circuit You DO NOT want to be toning through a network switch because every port on the switch will beep at you you DO NOT want to be toning through a splitter you DO NOT want to be toning through ACTIVE DEVICES so... When talking about a standard tone generator , You want a cable run that is OPEN CIRCUIT and NOT ENERGIZED if this is the case, you can tone the cable at the ends or ALONG THE CABLE AND THROUGH THE SHEATH... if you use a long sweeping motion Keep in mind, You are not going to get the tone through an RG-6 Cable because of the tri or Quad shielding , whatever the case may be but you can get the tone on the ends of the cable but in the case of UTP Cat 5 or 6 or even as low as Cat 2 you can tone straight through the sheath, BUT AGAIN... USE LONG 1 METRE OR HALF METER SWEEPING MOTION UP AND DOWN THE CABLE TO GET IT RIGHT Now... if you want to tone through an energized line, DEPENDING ON THE ENERGY LEVEL, BUT.. i'm referring to telecommunications network voltage, here in sydney it's generally around the 50V DC to 60V DC you do have toners that will do that Tone generators are generally referred to as F SETS not to be confused with LOOP A LINE by Teletech a Loop a line with tone through an energized line, if you really need it to it's rated by teletech up to 200V on Telecommunications network Voltage, realistically with ISDN you are going to get a max of 115V DC but most are way lower than that now. this is not fool proof either because if you're toning a telephone cable.. so... Cat 2 or Cat 3 and its' a 60m segment, you probably won't hear any tone until you get to the other end of the cable in saying that, if the cable is 30m or less you'll very likely get something of a tone straight through the sheath, but it might be faint THEN... it's a question of is the cable fucked more specifically ... is the cable old or does it have high resistance, because if it does YOU WILL NOT GET THAT TONE but.. if it's a new cable run, you're probably going to be ok The traditional way to use these tone gens and wands is go to your patch panel, put the tone on the cable you want go around to the wall points and tone them out you might even go into the ceiling space and tone them out but you are VERY VERY VERY RARELY GOING TO TONE THROUGH A WALL and... Why would you need to as well if you tone on one end and in the ceiling space and on the other end, you can logically conclude the path of the cable without having to tone through a wall Hope that helps you feel free to ask questions i've been doing this for a very long time with various cables in all sorts of fucked up scenario's and i always got it through
+Richard Cowtails Richard sorry I did not respond sooner however later is better than never. Yes any conductor can be traced as long as no power is present with them. Better units will survive AC if they make contact with the toner and can trace wires typically out to 5-6000 feet.
@@greygoosemafia i understand this is 4 years old but it might help others with your question, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS.... Ohms Law Volts x Amps = Watts and Watts is Power so let's say you have a cordless drill for example 15 V drill with 2 Ah (Amp Hours) IT MEANS...... 15 x 2 =30 so... Your drill can output a max of 30 Watts of Power per hour so... NOW PAY ATTENTION some people argue more Volts is better in a drill NOT EXACTLY so... if we have an 18V Drill but its also 1Ah then 18 x 1 = 18 watts so the drill with 15V ACTUALLY HAS MORE POWER got that ok so for your MECHANIC APPLICATION you need to identify HOW MUCH POWER YOU ARE GOING TO BE WORKIGN WITH Example, I'm in Telecomms i know i will never exceed TNV (Telecommunications Network Voltage) which is no more than 120V and maybe a few hundred mA at best this is why i know that any toner i pickup will either not tone out due to voltage on the line or will tone out because it supports toning through TNV but, it won't blow up in my hand because they are generally rated to 200V at TNV Now. if you go stick that on 240V mains at 10 Amps you're going to fuck your toner big time , it might even be dangerous and cause you injury so 240V x 10 A = 2400 Watts of Power got it... so you need something that has enough protection circuitry that is going to withstand THAT POWER / THAT AMOUNT OF WATTS so step 1, Identify what level of power you need to withstand while toning, but as a general rule , you shouldn't be toning over energized lines anyway. because the other question is, even if your meter survives it , IS THE TONE GOING TO GET THROUGH, you need to consider the resistance on the wire and the level of energy in the wire vs the amplitude of the tone itself Most tone put out around 4V -12V at best Most are 4 to6 Volts
Hi Ron... Not sure what happened to my last comment - I had written alot more information but, it seems to have vanished!! We are attempting to trace various data cables running to a 'CCTV hub' room from 6 PTZ cameras and (approx) 15 P.I.Rs which activate the cameras whenever a P.I.R is 'tripped'. The cables run various lengths (as far as 60 metres) and are buried underground. We have tried various tone/ probe generators but, when scanning the cables at the CCTV hub room (where they are all 'grouped together'), we are unable to identify any individual cable. Based on your comments in the video, I wonder if we need a 'cable tracer' instead of a tone/ probe generator?? If 'Ideal Industries' offer a suitable piece of equipment, we would be very interested in learning more.
Jason the tone and probe should work remember when tracing both ends of the cables you are tracing both ends must be open or not connected to any equipment. We do offer cable tracers but they can be expensive look fore the SureTrace 61-957 hope that helps Ron
Hi again Ron....thanks for your reply and my apologies for not responding sooner! We have tried your suggestion regarding cables being disconnected at both ends but, this is difficult to be certain (as the circuitry we are trying to trace is very complex - Well, to us it is!!). We would happily purchase the unit you suggest IF we could be certain it would accurately do what we require. I would like to send you a photo to illustrate the main circuit board(s) to which all the various wires connect too BUT, I cannot see how to do so (through RUclips). Would you be able to provide a link such that I can send this detail through to you please? Having just searched 'the web', it looks like I can contact you through 'Linked In'. Please confirm and I will send the details to you. Warm Regards...'j.
Hey Southern Rebel the toner is used to generate a signal on the wire that the probe can detect somewhere else throughout the length of the wire. Basically an old phone tech's way of tracing phone wires. It can be used on about any type of metal and is probably the cheapest way to locate a cable. Have fun Ron
I am trying to learn how to use the unit I have, but I didn't learn much from this video. Sorry, but I would have liked to see you use it to check out some wiring actually connected and tested on one end, after the other end is checked with the probe.
Hi Sidney you make a great point I should make a new video that more clearly shows using the T&P. Just need to find the time to do so. Apprecaite the comment. Ron
Hi. Good info. You say that the probe doesn't like an AC signal, but certainly the tone being generated is an AC signal. You mean, I suppose, that the probe doesn't like any AC signal other than the one being generated by the toner. I'm not trying to be pedantic, I just want to make sure I understand. My question is whether the use of a toner/probe could ever damage equipment. It's meant to be used on an open circuit, as you say, but the whole point is that you don't know exactly where the cable you're testing goes. Do I need to unplug every appliance in my house before tracing a ground line, for example, or can I assume that the load presented by the appliance is "close enough" to an open circuit? I guess what I'm really asking is whether, in your experience, any piece of equipment (other than the probe itself) has ever been damaged through improper use.
Marc Mongeon Marc good to hear from you. What I meant was the toner could be damaged by normal 120V AC signals. I am not aware of the toner itself causing any damage to existing circuits. It is just a 9 volt DC battery generating the signal. If you are using the toner to trace electrical cables in the home then yes all appliances may have some effect on the signal that is being sent. It works best on open circuits. If you are trying to trace cables in walls we do make other tracers and circuit breaker finders that work pretty well for that. Take CareRon
+Ron Kipper Datacomm This is what I was looking for. I am trying to find out where the wires to a non-working switch in both bathrooms, in the house I bought recently, go too? The thing is, my wire checker goes crazy noisy when close to the wire. The light switch is next to it. You would think it is for a fan, but no fan. One bathroom had a fan removed, but in the attic, it looks like it just goes to the breaker box. The one wire with a junction is for the lights. There is power to the other switch, yet nothing happens. Anyways, my question is answered. NO! I cannot connect it to a live wire. Guess I have to shut every circuit breaker to off. This house, built in 1960, doesn't even have a main breaker. Scary to work on the breakers. I had to put in a 240V outlet for my air compressor. Really scary when the screw driver slips and arcs in the middle of the night.
+shark70007000 Dude please be safe out there! Call a Pro if you need one. I feel your pain I had a house about the same age and what a pain to remodel basically had to rip out all the old wiring but got it done. Good luck on the house.Ron
@@shark70007000 it's buzzing because there is voltage on the line you are testing Disconnect the power and test the lines again and BE REALLY FUCKING CAREFUL ok
You talked way too much. You should of plug it in and use it. Instead of playing around with the tool like using it on your drywall metal piece. Just because you talk about coaxial wires, Romex. Where are the examples. I own the Klein so now I'm looking for a real how to use video and tips. Didn't like video at all.
Hey Salvador you sound like my wife! Sorry I don't show actual examples I have always said tracing cable is a little bit of an art form it takes some practice and knowing what you can do with a tone and probe which is the cheapest way to trace a wire. I do have another video you might look at but again I don't show actually using it but will think about trying to do a video along those lines ruclips.net/video/7yeOoArTALo/видео.html Thanks for the feedback. Ron
Excellent video! Great out of the box, innovate ideas like using a the toner to find out where your fish tape is in a wall.
Eric I like the pic on the top of your channel. Looks great Ron
Great tips! I just ordered the Fluke tone and probe kit from Amazon.
Thanks for this video. It helped me determine I was working either with a dead cable or the wrong cable at a friends house which is new construction. After not getting any tone or signal I looked more closely at the panel in the garage and noticed 3 more cat-5 cables had been stuff up inside the top of the cabinet. After pulling those back out of the sheet rock all went well.
ClearSmashDrop Hey thanks for watching the channel! I am glad you where able to use the info tracing cables is always a pain to do.Take CareRon
I like the wet finger method with turning up the volume of the probe and placed close to the ear. Guess the high resistance of the human body and some inductive/capacitive coupling does the trick. Innovation of an experienced technician.
N Tag yep not bsure who I got that tip from but it is a good one Ron
This was a really helpful video. I needed a refresher on toners and probes for a job interview. (Only used a toner twice a while back)
Ron, that idea about using the toner on your metal fish tape is genius!
Thanks just one of many tips I have gotten from guys in the field. Take care.Ron
The tricks in the video worked for me. Thanks for putting this together.
+Tom Northenscold Tom glad to hear it. Most of them have been given to me by guys in the field. Use them well. Ron
Awesome Video !! thank you for some great tips I never knew
Nate glad to help out thanks for being out there. Ron
Great Ron! You gave me very value troubleshooting tips. Cheers Alex from Brazil!
Hi Alex I have always wanted to travel to Brazil thanks for watching
Ron, Thank you for the detailed yet concise explanation. I got the XQ-350 which works great (so far) but was very cheap. Instructions on the "fall out manual" are pretty looking but nearly useless (and sometimes mislabeled). Though the probe is pretty easy to figure out, you made it clear and brought out some good tips. And interoperation of probes and receivers is a bonus tip only gotten from an experienced tech.
I also noticed the use of one signal wire was better for tracing twisted pair but was not sure I was "doing it right". Now I know. I also noticed cross talk and you confirmed what I guessed, so now I dont need to worry about finding a short between wires. With experience, I imagine I will learn to distinguish short from cross talk.
Your product is more expensive but obviously better made. Mine is VERY cheap plastic, manual is POOR and falls out of "pocket" in the pretty nice holster. It works surprisingly well (sensitive) for a cheapy. Hope it does not die early like many cheapies. Thats the trade off we make. Now that I am retired, I cant look at the stuff I used to work with.
Anyway, Thank you Nice tutorial.
Very Nice, 19 years in the field and still enjoy learning new tricks. Another cool trick is if you have to find a cable plugged into a network switch you can use pins 7,8 tone and you’ll find your cable. Saved me on many jobs.
That is a good one I will add it to my list of tricks. Thanks Ron
I needed Internet proof to backup my argument that toners and probes don't work through a wall. You directly answered that. Thanks. But, I'm really commenting to say that this is one of the best how-to videos I've seen on RUclips. The only thing I learned was about the wet finger/probe to the ear idea. But I kept watching because you know the tool so well. I wasn't sure what else I might learn. You covered pretty much every negative aspect of the tool there is as well as ways to get around it. Great job. I'm going to watch some more of your videos to see what other tips I might pick up.
Tripp thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! Thanks for taking the time. Ron
Thank you for the information! Was helpful!
Glad to help you out have fun Ron
Your advise was really helpful!
Glad you can use the info.Ron
Thanks so much. Helped a ton.
Very good! Ron
I remember nearly a decade ago, as a rookie CATV installer...trying to tone out a line...I was holding every single line in my left hand, and letting one go at a time to probe them.... of course the one line I needed was lighting up my entire body so it seemed that every single line was toning out. I chuckle at it these days, I've seen it happen with trainees plenty of times.
LOL..yeah it's fun to fuck with newbies LOL
hey... you only live once
Thanks for detailed tutorial!
I love how open and honest you are about everything, and how you don't try making some statement about "proprietary" _____________ (fill in the blank). Subscribing.
Bu Jin good to hear from you! Appreciate you being out there. Ron
Good tips, thank you.
Stay safe, Joe Z
Hi Joe same to you! have fun Ron
Very good info....
Amazing video. I wanna sk about what if I wanna tone the neutral and ground wires at my home. Do i need to trum the power off from the electrical panel?
Great vid. Thanks for the info!
Ray you have been busy! I assume you are trying to trace a circuit using the tone and probe hope the videois help Ron
@@RonKipperDatacomm1 That's right: I have a bunch of wires that were poorly labelled by the builder. I've struggled with identifying them with my ohm meter. Time to get serious with a tone and probe!
Thanks really helpful.
Hi Josh I have another video in my Industry Tips playlist for some tips on how to use them. Ron
That is some good advice I do sprinkler work what do u . have that can find electric sprinkler valves in the ground
Thanks a lot.
Please post links to purchase the device(s) in the videos so we can purchase them right away.
i work for dish network and if we didnt have cable toners some jobs would either take a lot longer to trace cables or sometimes even impossible. One time when i was a travel tech i was sent to orlando for 2 weeks and my toner fell out of my tool pouch somewhere at a job and didnt realize it till the next day when i really really needed it. Luckily i was able to use my super sat buddy satellite meter and a power inserter for a 44 switch. I went to each room and i connected the power inserter to the cable jack then went to the junction box and connected one cable at a time to the bottom port on the meter until the red power light lit up telling me that the coax cable has power coming thru it. It can be a very very slow process especially if its a huge house but its a nice trick to know about to use as a backup incase u lose ur toner lol
***** i agree, i had a phone guy come into an office where i worked, he set up some new phones in a sea of wires near the d mark. It was the best tool i ever found left behind from a kimf teck. Now you can buy them any where but, 15 years ago hard to find, i use it to trace all sorts of circuits and correct messes from bad contractors
Ron, thanks so much for this video. It's very helpful.
I have one Cat6 cable in my server room that is putting out a REALLY loud buzz when I put the toner against it. In fact, the buzz is louder than the power cables of any equipment nearby. I'm assuming this means that a device (in this case a linksys router) is leaking power down a data cable. Have you run into this before? Any solutions?
Thanks,
Rick
Hi Ron, I work in a telephone exchange and I have never used such devices! And I want to ask you: Is the tone produced by that device is different from the regular tone found on a phone line so it will make a unique sound on the probe (tracker)? In other shape, Can the Probe detect the pair with the tone produced by the device between other lines?
We started outsourcing our IT work about 8 years ago when our IT guy moved on to another company. Every now and then I'll have to get in to his old toolbox to find something and this toner and probe was in there. I've never seen one, had no idea what it was. 15 minutes ago it was a mystery. Now I feel like I could use one of these like a pro...once I find a couple of 9v batteries that is.
Hey Bryan good to hear ypou can use the info good luck tracing those lines man Ron
Very helpful video. I am trying to trace audio cables with RCA puts on either end. How do I connect the clips to the RCA jack?
Sorry, "puts" should "jacks"
barleywells I would try and make a homemade adapter using RCA plugs with a small piece of cable handing out of it that separates the center conductor and the shielding that you can connect the alligator clips to. Good luck with the tracing. Ron
Hi Ron...Great video - very informative/ educational!!
All of the cables run underground (at some point) so, I wonder if perhaps we should be looking at 'Cable Tracers' instead?? A point you raise in your video.
Jason like I said the tone and probe should work. Ron
What’s the best tracer to locate low voltage buried in the drywall
The cheapest way is with the tone and probe like the one I show in the video. They can get you close to the cable you are looking for. We do sell cable tracers but they are over $1000.
The commoning issue is why you should use olde style 66 blocks, or in the UK, Krone 237 disconnection modules... allows you to isolate a cable (or multiple cables) without having to faff about disconnecting wires
66 Blocks? that is olde style...........
If you have a 120v circuit that has been tripped at the breaker, but you cant tell which breaker it is in the panel, can you send a tone down the black wire and then use the probe at the panel to find the right one? (since the neutrals and grounds are all connected) I know that there are circuit breaker tracers, but the circuit has to be live to use them.
+Kenny Bender Kenny most tracers will trace live or dead circuits at least ours does here is a link ruclips.net/video/CqOVXwxfHDw/видео.html are not cheap though. You should be able to use the T&P though I would verify the circuit is off with a tester first but it should work. The toner should be used only on dead circuits. If you like give me a call 815-341-3537. Ron
toning out phone and data cables definatly looks like it can be wayyyy more complicating than toning out coax. Ive always wondered how the phone company techs figure out which wires to use out at the telecom pedestals and sometimes ive even seen them have to go down the street to i guess big junction boxes to connect the pedestal closest to the customer. Ive looked inside of them and there are soooo many color coded wires but there are many of them the same color so i have no clue how they can know which is which. Very interesting, im actually trying to get on with at&t to get some experience in that field and hopefuly move onto a phone company like windstream
10:20 (toning a data port that's connected to a switch/router)
I have a Greenlee 701K-G/6A set, and toning a connected cable *does* work. The reason it normally doesn't work is because the RJ11/RJ45 coming out of the toner applies tone to pins 4 & 5, which are twisted together. When I made a custom connector splitting them onto different pairs, I got a definitive response on a cable connected to a switch (Dlink DGS-1024D). I similarly got a tone on a cable connected to my ADSL router (a TP link), except in this case the tone bled through to all of the other cables connected to it.
I assume this will be the same case with your Ideal tone & probes, so I think it just depends on which switch you use. Some will work, some won't.
anon746912 Hey Thanks I will have to give it a try. I appreciate the feedback.Take CareRon
My problem
2 wires twisted together 30 feet long
one wire is cut not shorted
TONER detector will show both wires as good at the end of wires both wires will beep
but one wire was cut
TONE SIGNAL will be transfered to the bad wire that was twisted with good one
USELESS TOOL
LEARN the hard way
@@geoeconomics3067 Important to have the right tool for the right job.
If a water line burried over 5ft deep has a tracer tape, will a Stationmaster Pro locate it? (Marketed for irrigation work) I would put the signal on the tracer tape and just clamp the common wire to a ground (screwdriver jammed into the dirt)
I am not sure never heard of the tracer you mention Ron
Can these be used for wiring on cars? Restoring a classic car and need to fix a few things.
I live near a 100,000 watt Country music station's transmitter tower. Will I hear music if I get one of these?
Yes you can use it for tracing wires in a car keep in mind both end of the wire should be open or not connected to something else and you may hear some music! Ron
So when I shut off the power to an electric circuit, I can essentially tone out some high voltage wires?
Michael you can put a tone on anything made of metal and make sure the power is off as it can damage the toner. The probe is meant to find the other end of a cable not for tracing behind walls but it may give you some indication of where the wire goes. Good luck Ron
Thx. I had an idea that I could do that.
So you said no AC voltage on the lines but then you also said that both ends really need to be open, other than the connected toner. So, really no voltage AC or DC, both ends open, or the toner will be shorted out and no tone. Am I understanding that correctly? I appreciate the tip. about using different pairs on a cat 5 that could help but my issue is usually with existing phone lines, not being able to trace them because they have phone signal.
Stephen yes you are the toner works best with both ends opened and no voltage present. If you attach the toner to a pair that is terminated into some type of equipment it will probably short the toner and you loose the tone. Hope that helps Ron
i'll definitely adopt the wet-willy technique (when the customer is not watching) Thanks!!!
Hey Jon yes it is a good tip! Ron
I bought the fluke pro 3000. how do I use the cont setting? does that mean continuity?
Yes it does mean continuity. Using the alligator clips if the circuit has continuity the light on the toner should light up. Good luck Ron
ohhnight, just tried it thx. I have a question regarding if the unit is defective or not. I'll hold it on a wire in the same spot and sometimes its louder but sometimes its a softer sound. Is that a bad speaker or something? Is that something I should return it over? exchange for another one?
Those toners typically have several different types of tones they will produce. The idea is you can use two toners set to different tones and trace both with the probe. Try holding the tone button down and usually it will cycle through the different tones it will make. Good luck Ron
Is there any way to determine line strength from a phone jack using a multimeter? Is so, what what be a good value coming off that line? Thks..jc
JC saw this online hope it helps Ron
The POTS phone line, with all phones on-hook, should measure around 48 volts DC. Taking a phone off-hook creates a DC signal path across the pair, which is detected as loop current back at the central office. This drops the voltage measured at the phone down to about 3 to 9 volts.
@@RonKipperDatacomm1 Thanks Ron..jc
Hello do you know how to trace and pin point where the short is in a wire with test light or multimeter?I found how to find the circuit but cant find info on how to actual trace the short down other then buying this tool
Finding a short can be tricky a TDR can give you distances to a short and we do sell the Suretrace circuit tracer for finding a short but that can be expensive. I don't think a multimeter will do you much good. Good luck Ron
it depends on your level of experience
you see, a Multimeter can help you ..... ONLY IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO KNOW
- The length of the cable
- The Resistance per meter
then you can measure the circuit resistance and conclude the approx distance to fault
BUT, THAT'S REALLY GOING OVERBOARD
an easier method, Like ron said is T.D.R. (Time domain Reflectometry)
basically a meter that uses the concept of SPEED = DISTANCE OVER TIME (Basic Physics) and with the knowledge of Velocity of Propogation through a wire and ASSUMING YOU SET THE WIRE GUAGE UP CORRECTLY . it will tell you the approx distance to the fault , be it open or short
I use a FLUKE TS54-TDR for this purpose, it's really good and has served me well for years
another thing you can do DEPENDING ON THE CABLE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
Let's assume it's a Cat5e UTP cable
Ensure you have no voltage on the line
put a tone on one end
Follow the cable with your want until the tone dies
in saying that.......
if the cable is damaged at some point and that damage causes a short, You ain't gonna get jack shit for a tone even if the other end is open circuit
but re your question
tools like this do not tell you how to do everything
it's more like this ......
when you buy a voltage regulator from jaycar. it doesn't come with wiring instructions, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO KNOW HOW TO WIRE IT UP Based on your fundamentsl electronics knowledge or technical knowledge
Just like a Multimeter doesn't tell you how to check the voltage of a car battery but the manual does tell you how to put it into V DC Mode
so... your toner manual is not going to answer your question
YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW TO USE A TONER BEFORE YOU BUY IT
if you don't know, you shouldn't be doing this kind of work
in the end though, it's not hard to figure out, but... Toning and tracing cables TAKES IMAGINATION AND you draw on your experience and knowledge to apply the tone in certain situations
Example......
Let's say i have a fluke TS54-TDR which has a basic tone function in it, just like any toner EXCEPT this one has exact pair identification which means if i short the 2 wires that the tone is on the tone will change
Now. let's say i also have a Teletech loop a line , which can tone through Telecomms voltage , but the other meter can't, but the loop a line does not have exact pair ID but it can control an Oscillator to remotely open circuit or close circuit and allow me to test resistance
now... let's say i tone a cable from one end with the TS54 TDR and i get tone up to a point.
i then go to the other end (say the pit in the street) and i put on the loop a line because i have a spare toner
Now
1. if i go back to the mid point, on one end i should get the tone from the TS54 and on the other wire i should get another tone from the loop a line
2. if i was to join the 2 wires I WOULD GET A COMBINATION OF BOTH TONES ON 1 WIRE, hence knowing im on the correct wire
how is this useful
well... if the tone from the loop a line was just induced from a close by wire
WHEN I CONNECTED THEM I WOULD NOT GET BOTH TONES
SO... DO YOU SEE
it's about thinking outside of the box and knowing what your equipment can do and how you can use it in many scenario's
USE YOUR IMAGINATION
but until you get experienced YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A TDR METER
Would this be good to trace a homes AC lines? Them being off, of course. Is there a more appropriate tool?
Hi Cupid the tone and probe can trace any type of cable as long as it is not live or have an active circuit. Just make sure to disconnect both ends of the cable. If you are just trying to find a breaker look at IDEAL's 61-532 or 61-534. Have fun Ron
@@RonKipperDatacomm1 Thank you!
I had some issues with the wide range of wire probes in the market. Especially from many of the China brands that is saturated on the market with a price half or as near as fluke with tones of neat feature. But here's the difference , majority china brands are able to detect tones if the connectors were not plugged into the ports. However, if the connectors were connected into the port of the device, this china probe tools weren't able to detect any tones generated from the tone generator. Even it does, it's too faint too hear which is a huge problem if the cables were tied together. I won't be able to check which is the right cable. As i know, fluke is more like a precision professional tool but with a sharp price tag. The price tag pretty much adhere accordingly to price vs features. I'm not sure if this product of Fluke pro3000 had such issues of unable to detect the wires if it happens to be plugged into the port of the device. Need your advise. THanks.
+Darkskies Vincor If you plug the tone generator into a port of an active switch or at the outlet. The switch effectively shorts the toner and you will get no tone or very little. That is true with any of the tone generator. Both ends of a cable need to open to trace the cable. Hope that helps. Ron
can you trace a line through a coax cable splitter? In other words does tone go through a coax splitter?
Edward Walker Ed no you cannot it will either lose the signal completely or bled into everything. As a general rule both ends of a cable need to be open with nothing attached to them to trace.Godd luck
Thanks!
How about a hyperlink to the videos you mentioned in the description as well as this message? Thank you.
Thanks for the input and a good idea. Just need to find the time.............Ron
Ron Kipper Datacomm Now seems like as good a time as any. Do you need a Roundtuit?
OK Done at 4:28 in the video. Thanks for the motivation.......Ron
Ron Kipper Datacomm I think we have a miscommunication going on here. You state in the Video to watch another video that goes more in depth that you already made. This video is from 4 years ago. I am on a phone so I can't search and I don't want to scroll through 4 years of videos to see the one video you told me to go watch.
You would get a lot more views if you included a hyperlink to your suggested video in the description of this video as well as reply to my message. Are we on the same bandwidth now?
OK sorry for the confusion the links are in an annotation at about 4:30 in the video but here they are.IDEAL Tone and Proberuclips.net/video/0uUw70652cU/видео.html TraceToneruclips.net/video/xelz8zJOh0E/видео.html that helpsRon
Ron - thanks for the video. I am a jackass homeowner and trying to sort out what the ding-a-ling installer did at my house. Bought the Toner/Probe unit from Klein. I thought that if I plugged in the RJ jack on the tone generator into the wall that a tone would be generated back to the panel, then I would identify all the jacks around the house. Problem is - nothing is being generated into the jack from the tone generator. Does the male jack from the tone generator make a tone that I can take the probe into the panel and find the tone and identify the wire. What am I doing wrong? P.S. Have even done the above on known jack outlets and wires at the panel and it isn't working.
Doug I am not sure which toner and probe you have but I would turn on the toner and check the probe is picking up the signal before inserting the toner into the outlet. If you insert the toner in the outlet and you lose the signal there is a short somewhere that is canceling the signal the toner generates. Or if the other end of the cable is connected to something it can be shorting the tone too. Both end of the cable need to be open when tracing the cable. Hope that helps Ron
I have used toners for years. I want to thank you for showing the tips that you gave. I learned a lot!!! Ignore the detractors, they're trolls. One question - do you find it harder to trace Cat6 vs Cat5 in the walls....or should I buy a better toner?
Hey Andy good to hear from you. The tone and probe are really good if you know where both ends of a cable are but not so good trying to trace in walls. Cat 6 may be harder due to more twisting in the cable. To avoid that use two wires not twisted together to apply the tone to. The probe will get you kind of close behind the wall but not exactly. We do sell cable tracers but they start at about $900 and do a good job of tracing in walls. Good luck with the cable Ron
Thanks I'll try that next time it comes up. As for the people saying 8 minutes wasted or bla bla, either they don't work in the industry or they are idiots. Yes, it takes 2 seconds to learn how to tone, your tips show HOW TO REALLY TONE.
I tell people tracing wires is a little bit of an art form. Takes practice to get good at it. Take care Ron
Hi andy, if i can contribute some insight from my extensive experience....
Cat 6 vs 5e or 5 because i'm guessing when you say Cat 5, You're talking about 5e.
ok, first of all Understand the cable construction, it's U.T.P. No shielding , but uses natural shielding in the form of twists per metre so ... you have that to overcome as Ron said
Next, you can't just say HOW DO I TRACE A UTP CABLE IN A WALL
what sort of wall ???
Fibro, Concrete, Brick, Double Brick, timber cladded ?? etc..
let's first put aside that you generall wouldn't trace the cable in the wall to begin with
YOU COULD EXPLORE THIS OPTION
Get yourself a stuff finder that has the ability to detect assetts like Power cable, and... MAKE SURE IT HAS A SCREEN that displays what it is seeing
Meaning..... some stud finder just beep at you and display 1 LED for a stud or beam (which basically works on a concept of measurement of density in a wall)
then another for LED if power cables are detected , which works on a concept of detection of induction of an electromagnetic field, basically a glorified volt stick
but.. doing it this way , you are not going to find UTP cables in a wall, i mean.. maybe.. but.. i wouldn't trust it
however, if you have a visual screen you can identify what is detected BASED ON IT'S SHAPE
and a 3 core power cable will look significantly different to a UTP Cable that you're trying to find
or... You could spend a bit more and buy an assett detector which again... Detects differences in density in a wall.
ARE THEY ACCURATE....... FUCK NO
but, if you had a screen , it helps a lot
Now.. the way toning works is
Optimally you want to tone at the ends of the pairs
You DO NOT want to have a short circuit
You DO NOT want to be toning through a network switch because every port on the switch will beep at you
you DO NOT want to be toning through a splitter
you DO NOT want to be toning through ACTIVE DEVICES
so... When talking about a standard tone generator , You want a cable run that is
OPEN CIRCUIT and
NOT ENERGIZED
if this is the case, you can tone the cable at the ends
or
ALONG THE CABLE AND THROUGH THE SHEATH... if you use a long sweeping motion
Keep in mind, You are not going to get the tone through an RG-6 Cable because of the tri or Quad shielding , whatever the case may be
but you can get the tone on the ends of the cable
but in the case of UTP Cat 5 or 6 or even as low as Cat 2 you can tone straight through the sheath, BUT AGAIN... USE LONG 1 METRE OR HALF METER SWEEPING MOTION UP AND DOWN THE CABLE TO GET IT RIGHT
Now... if you want to tone through an energized line, DEPENDING ON THE ENERGY LEVEL,
BUT.. i'm referring to telecommunications network voltage, here in sydney it's generally around the 50V DC to 60V DC
you do have toners that will do that
Tone generators are generally referred to as F SETS
not to be confused with LOOP A LINE by Teletech
a Loop a line with tone through an energized line, if you really need it to
it's rated by teletech up to 200V on Telecommunications network Voltage, realistically with ISDN you are going to get a max of 115V DC but most are way lower than that
now. this is not fool proof either because if you're toning a telephone cable.. so... Cat 2 or Cat 3 and its' a 60m segment, you probably won't hear any tone until you get to the other end of the cable
in saying that, if the cable is 30m or less you'll very likely get something of a tone straight through the sheath, but it might be faint
THEN... it's a question of is the cable fucked
more specifically ... is the cable old or does it have high resistance, because if it does YOU WILL NOT GET THAT TONE
but.. if it's a new cable run, you're probably going to be ok
The traditional way to use these tone gens and wands is
go to your patch panel, put the tone on the cable you want
go around to the wall points and tone them out
you might even go into the ceiling space and tone them out
but you are VERY VERY VERY RARELY GOING TO TONE THROUGH A WALL
and... Why would you need to as well
if you tone on one end and in the ceiling space and on the other end, you can logically conclude the path of the cable without having to tone through a wall
Hope that helps you
feel free to ask questions
i've been doing this for a very long time with various cables in all sorts of fucked up scenario's and i always got it through
@@RonKipperDatacomm1
it is indeed
and
it does indeed
LOL
iam a leacture of ICT at ruco good for this i understudy you thanks
inachukua mda mwingi kupanch
Elias Mbangwa
Elias Mbangwa Hey Good to hear from you. Thanks for watching!Ron
Im in the market for purchasing a professional product. Can you use this on a/c and d/c? just no current?
+Richard Cowtails Richard sorry I did not respond sooner however later is better than never. Yes any conductor can be traced as long as no power is present with them. Better units will survive AC if they make contact with the toner and can trace wires typically out to 5-6000 feet.
+Ron Kipper Datacomm thinking more for a mechanic application
@@greygoosemafia
i understand this is 4 years old but it might help others
with your question, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS....
Ohms Law
Volts x Amps = Watts
and
Watts is Power
so let's say you have a cordless drill for example
15 V drill with 2 Ah (Amp Hours)
IT MEANS......
15 x 2 =30
so... Your drill can output a max of 30 Watts of Power per hour
so... NOW PAY ATTENTION
some people argue more Volts is better in a drill
NOT EXACTLY
so... if we have an 18V Drill but its also 1Ah
then
18 x 1 = 18 watts so the drill with 15V ACTUALLY HAS MORE POWER
got that
ok
so for your MECHANIC APPLICATION you need to identify HOW MUCH POWER YOU ARE GOING TO BE WORKIGN WITH
Example, I'm in Telecomms i know i will never exceed TNV (Telecommunications Network Voltage) which is no more than 120V and maybe a few hundred mA at best
this is why i know that any toner i pickup will either not tone out due to voltage on the line or will tone out because it supports toning through TNV
but, it won't blow up in my hand because they are generally rated to 200V at TNV
Now. if you go stick that on 240V mains at 10 Amps you're going to fuck your toner big time , it might even be dangerous and cause you injury
so 240V x 10 A = 2400 Watts of Power
got it...
so you need something that has enough protection circuitry that is going to withstand THAT POWER / THAT AMOUNT OF WATTS
so step 1, Identify what level of power you need to withstand while toning,
but as a general rule , you shouldn't be toning over energized lines anyway.
because the other question is, even if your meter survives it , IS THE TONE GOING TO GET THROUGH,
you need to consider the resistance on the wire and the level of energy in the wire vs the amplitude of the tone itself
Most tone put out around 4V -12V at best Most are 4 to6 Volts
Hi Ron... Not sure what happened to my last comment - I had written alot more information but, it seems to have vanished!!
We are attempting to trace various data cables running to a 'CCTV hub' room from 6 PTZ cameras and (approx) 15 P.I.Rs which activate the cameras whenever a P.I.R is 'tripped'.
The cables run various lengths (as far as 60 metres) and are buried underground. We have tried various tone/ probe generators but, when scanning the cables at the CCTV hub room (where they are all 'grouped together'), we are unable to identify any individual cable.
Based on your comments in the video, I wonder if we need a 'cable tracer' instead of a tone/ probe generator??
If 'Ideal Industries' offer a suitable piece of equipment, we would be very interested in learning more.
Jason the tone and probe should work remember when tracing both ends of the cables you are tracing both ends must be open or not connected to any equipment. We do offer cable tracers but they can be expensive look fore the SureTrace 61-957 hope that helps Ron
Hi again Ron....thanks for your reply and my apologies for not responding sooner! We have tried your suggestion regarding cables being disconnected at both ends but, this is difficult to be certain (as the circuitry we are trying to trace is very complex - Well, to us it is!!). We would happily purchase the unit you suggest IF we could be certain it would accurately do what we require. I would like to send you a photo to illustrate the main circuit board(s) to which all the various wires connect too BUT, I cannot see how to do so (through RUclips). Would you be able to provide a link such that I can send this detail through to you please? Having just searched 'the web', it looks like I can contact you through 'Linked In'. Please confirm and I will send the details to you. Warm Regards...'j.
So if the tone goes off it’s a short ?
Yes if you short the toner the sound goes away! Ron
How long of wire can you tone?
I have traced pairs in a cable over 9Km.
Weeble Wobble who that is pretty far! Thanks for the feedback Ron
it is just an AM radio transmitter / receiver.
Yes toners and probes have been around a long time now but are still probably the cheapest way to trace a wire. Ron
What is the main function of it ? Can't a simple wire finder do the trick ?
Hey Southern Rebel the toner is used to generate a signal on the wire that the probe can detect somewhere else throughout the length of the wire. Basically an old phone tech's way of tracing phone wires. It can be used on about any type of metal and is probably the cheapest way to locate a cable. Have fun Ron
I am trying to learn how to use the unit I have, but I didn't learn much from this video. Sorry, but I would have liked to see you use it to check out some wiring actually connected and tested on one end, after the other end is checked with the probe.
Hi Sidney you make a great point I should make a new video that more clearly shows using the T&P. Just need to find the time to do so. Apprecaite the comment. Ron
interesting
Hey Mathew hope you got something out of it. Ron
I mean wire run...can you go over 300 Ft.?
Anthony phone guys have used these to trace wires over 5000 feet. Kind of depends on how strong the battery is. Hope that helps
Ron
Thanks for the reply!
Hi. Good info. You say that the probe doesn't like an AC signal, but certainly the tone being generated is an AC signal. You mean, I suppose, that the probe doesn't like any AC signal other than the one being generated by the toner. I'm not trying to be pedantic, I just want to make sure I understand. My question is whether the use of a toner/probe could ever damage equipment. It's meant to be used on an open circuit, as you say, but the whole point is that you don't know exactly where the cable you're testing goes. Do I need to unplug every appliance in my house before tracing a ground line, for example, or can I assume that the load presented by the appliance is "close enough" to an open circuit? I guess what I'm really asking is whether, in your experience, any piece of equipment (other than the probe itself) has ever been damaged through improper use.
Marc Mongeon Marc good to hear from you. What I meant was the toner could be damaged by normal 120V AC signals. I am not aware of the toner itself causing any damage to existing circuits. It is just a 9 volt DC battery generating the signal. If you are using the toner to trace electrical cables in the home then yes all appliances may have some effect on the signal that is being sent. It works best on open circuits. If you are trying to trace cables in walls we do make other tracers and circuit breaker finders that work pretty well for that. Take CareRon
+Ron Kipper Datacomm This is what I was looking for. I am trying to find out where the wires to a non-working switch in both bathrooms, in the house I bought recently, go too? The thing is, my wire checker goes crazy noisy when close to the wire. The light switch is next to it. You would think it is for a fan, but no fan. One bathroom had a fan removed, but in the attic, it looks like it just goes to the breaker box. The one wire with a junction is for the lights. There is power to the other switch, yet nothing happens. Anyways, my question is answered. NO! I cannot connect it to a live wire. Guess I have to shut every circuit breaker to off. This house, built in 1960, doesn't even have a main breaker. Scary to work on the breakers. I had to put in a 240V outlet for my air compressor. Really scary when the screw driver slips and arcs in the middle of the night.
+shark70007000 Dude please be safe out there! Call a Pro if you need one. I feel your pain I had a house about the same age and what a pain to remodel basically had to rip out all the old wiring but got it done. Good luck on the house.Ron
@@shark70007000
it's buzzing because there is voltage on the line you are testing
Disconnect the power and test the lines again
and BE REALLY FUCKING CAREFUL ok
A god
Hey have fun Ron
time takes but although it gooh
When someone doesn't understand you just can't fix stupid!
Hey dude not sure if I can help you Ron
Action help more than too much talking
Ricardo you sound like my wife...............Ron
bla bla bla bla bla!.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!
You talked way too much. You should of plug it in and use it. Instead of playing around with the tool like using it on your drywall metal piece. Just because you talk about coaxial wires, Romex. Where are the examples. I own the Klein so now I'm looking for a real how to use video and tips. Didn't like video at all.
Hey Salvador you sound like my wife! Sorry I don't show actual examples I have always said tracing cable is a little bit of an art form it takes some practice and knowing what you can do with a tone and probe which is the cheapest way to trace a wire. I do have another video you might look at but again I don't show actually using it but will think about trying to do a video along those lines
ruclips.net/video/7yeOoArTALo/видео.html
Thanks for the feedback.
Ron
@@RonKipperDatacomm1 Wow, Ron! U seem like u have some experience, dealin w/crazy ppl...