.303" Lee-Enfield No.4 in Service Rifle (b) Configuration (centre bedded by Alfred J Parker)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2020
- A discussion around the Lee-Enfield No.4 rifle in Service Rifle (b) configuration, centre bedded by Alfred J Parker of Birmingham. An earlier extra vid of this rifle being shot is here: • EXTRA VIDEO: Target SR...
SR(b) was the forerunner of British/Commonwealth Target Rifle, fired with the .303 British and Commonwealth service rifles of the day. Externally, aside from a mid sling swivel and target sights, they're standard. However, various internal perfections were permitted, after experiments running from late 1952 to early 1953 with various alternative methods of stocking-up. Centre bedding had been applied in India to refurbished No.4 rifles, and it was trialled, leading to its adoption for NRA competitions at Bisley and elsewhere, although the British army didn't adopt it itself.
Canadian maintenance manual: drive.google.com/file/d/1YjHV...
Patreon: / blokeontherange
Teespring: teespring.com/stores/bloke-on...
Facebook: / blokeontherange 
Спорт
![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Music Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This explains a lot about my own rifle. I bought a longbranch no4 mk1* that has a parker hale sight on it, a wobbly barrel, T sniper style cheek rest and a suspiciously crisp trigger. It groups off the shelf ammo in ways people keep telling me are impossible. I was very perplexed as to how it came to be as it is. Great video!
Now you know! :)
My first shot was at 3 years old with a #1mk3, dad held it and i pulled the trigger, have been a fan of them ever since. I started competing in full bore in the early 90's, by then most of the #3's and #4's had given way to stuff like Omark's but the few older gents still ran 303's, fantastic to watch their skill, after the 1996 drama's 303's came back big in service rifle.
The historic pressure bedding of rifles, both sporting and military, is a fascinating subject. Thank you!
This video makes me sad. Why? Back in the late '90s, I bought a new (still wrapped) 1954 Canadian Enfield. I loved this rifle! It lived up to it's reputation for having a butter smooth, quick bolt action right out of the wrapper!
I produced replica factory performance reloads for it so that the sight markings would be true.
First time hunting, and holding dead on, I took a big bodied doe with it at 180-185 yards. It had a stunning affect, killing the deer instantly with a perfect heart/lung shot.
Sadly, this rifle was stolen along with many other firearms while I was out of the country on a trip.
I only owned it for a couple years, and never had the opportunity to develope new loads or to fit a rear patridge sight :(
Thank you for this episode!
Baaaaaaaarstarrrrrrrrds
If the rifle was not locked in a gunsafe, no sympathy.
@@mattimatkalainen Well Matti, it was. A family member carelessly gave the combination to a friend.
I gave them the combo so that they could go shooting while I was on a trip to S. America.
@@uralbob1 So you know who stole it but did not get it back?!
@@mattimatkalainen Quit being a troll. Grow up. Be a decent human being.
Never apologize for going on about Lee Enfield rifles. You’re videos are most excellent!
The ultimate catch in this caper is that the rifles were tuned to ONE, count them, ONE type of ammo; The mighty Mk7 .303 cartridge.
Change that ammo and just about everything done to the rifles goes straight out the window.
In particular, start fooling around with slower-burning powders and slinky, boat-tailed bullets (assuming you can FIND .312" VLD projectiles at the corner gun shop), and all semblance of original grouping and trajectory ill vanish completely.
Furthermore, the Mk 7 bullet is an OPEN-based design with a relatively light jacket and is supposed to "bump-up" at the base when kicked up the backside by the ignition of the relatively fast-burning bundle of Cordite. I mention "bumping up" because of the wonderfully British relationship between the bullet and the bore and groove dimensions.
The .303 bit refers to the nominal diameter of the BORE, BEFORE rifling. According to the original factory drawings I have seen, the (mostly) five grooves, cut with a single-tooth "hook" cutter, could be UP TO 0.008" deep, measured from BORE diameter. Thus, if you had a new barrel with a .304" BORE (still within tolerances), and maximum allowable depth grooves, your "groove" diameter could run to .320" and still meet "Mil Spec). All this whilst firing a bullet no larger in nominal diameter than .312". Yes, bullets DO, bump up" but not always perfectly concentrically. I suspect the operating theory dated from the Minie ball and the 1853 Enfield muzzle-loader. A nominally "bore-sized" bullet that was relatively easy to ram down even a fouled barrel, with a thin "skirt" as a base extension. When the black Powder charge went off, it blew the soft lead skirt out into the rifling grooves, sealing the bore and thus optimizing the use of the propellant gases. The clean skirt would also scrape a bit of the fouling from the previous shot out of the way, making it possible to fire a lot more shots before the barrel was seriously gunked up.
Historically, military ordnance systems have tended put serious effort into developing a cartridge with specific performance characteristics and THEN, develop the rifle, etc. to perform optimally and CONSISTENTLY with the chosen ammo. Your army might have a million rifles, but in their service life they may easily consume, between themselves, tens of billions of rounds of ONE type of ammo. The list of "changes" to the (SMLE) rifle brought about by the change from Mk Vl to Mk Vll ammo is interesting. That ammo change also necessitated that EVERY .303 calibre machine-gun had to have its sighting equipment and firing tables revised and then there were all the range templates drawn up on the earlier, lower-velocity, "rainbow" trajectoried ammo.
Sport shooters do it the other way around, much to the delight of manufacturers of barrels and reloading components and gadgets.
Of course, Bruce you are absolutely correct when you say that Enfield rifling was designed for a flat, open based Spitzer bullet that would obturate to fit the rifling upon firing. The problem is, today those types of bullets are virtually non-existent along with surplus MkVII ammunition. For years Greek HXP ammunition was available for us Service Rifle competitors but that has dried up too. We've been forced to reload what .311" or .312" bullets we can find online or in local gun stores of which there are numerous varieties, especially here in the U.S. Fortunately, good accuracy can be had with both closed flat base and boat-tail spitzer bullets. I have worked up accurate loads with the 174gr. Sierra Match King, the 150gr. LeHigh solid target, the 150gr. Hornady SST, and the 180 gr. Sierra Pro Hunter, some of which are in the 1 MOA range which is better than the standard rifle was expected to shoot with service ammunition. Necessity is the Mother of Invention as we all know so making do with what bullets are available has forced us to shoot what we can find.
idk, my no4 shoots 7.62x54r fmjbt pulled bullet rather well
My dad gave me a sporterized 303 m4n1 1945. I had to clean the bore a lot and oil the wood. Tried grouping and it was kinda terrible. After watching your videos and any I could find on RUclips I figured it needed to be bedded better. So I shimmed it at the end of the forstock and put a hose clamp...I know a hose clamp but you know what it shoots amazing at 200y now. Thanks for the great content. The gun is 76 years old and still bagging deer and moose with federal 180gr power shok sp/bm
I love my Enfield, cheers from across the pond. Great channel and content!
Exploring the gun with the Bloke. What not to like!?
Oh I love guns like this. So neat! Appreciate the vids
You are a brave man pulling that gem down, but being careful of course. I just love shooting the old SMLE, my No3 Mk1 HT (1946 Lithgow) with Pattern 1918 Scope especially. Still Waiting for my local range to re-open next month.
Great video as usual.
Awesome video, when pulling off my upper handguard on my no 5 to look for the lightening cuts I noticed a brown paper like substance on the handguard where it's retained, didn't know what it was but after seeing your rifles paper on the same spots now I do, thanks!
you know we love a good lee video!
Every time I watch one of these videos, I want an Enfield (again).
Great video. Being a high power shooter here in the US I'd love to see more videos on competition there in the UK.
Not sorry, your not sorry, great stuff keep it coming!
Thank you!
Great video. Very informative and interesting. Thank you sir.
Français svp merci
Thank you Bloke, I have the same setup on my No4 and have always wondered why it was done this way. Mine appears to have been put together by Parker hale as it has a PH sight, almost exactly the same as yours but without the ability to screw in a lens.
It does however have the same rough action appearance , and to my untrained eye ,may have a fully floated barrel. Though on futher in spection, it has a middle bearing :)
As always, I enjoy your Enfield videos.
Joyous. Thanks very much. ♦️
Thank you for leading me over to this video, im restoring a genuine sporterized savage 1941 NO4MK1T and theres no way I can properly muzzle bed the gun at the moment so I'm just going to center bed it until I can find a replacement forend for it to get fixed properly
We need more of this! Hopefully this is not the only episode. You need to talk about the other No4 you have as well and how to set it up for accuracy.
The other No.4 in .303 I have is conventionally stocked-up and has had nothing done to it at all.
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks for the reply, but will you make an episode on how to set up the No4 or SMLE for accuracy?
I'm not a gunsmith so cannot impart any decent knowledge on that front other than the basic stock corrections, sorry.
Never be sorry for delivering Enfield content!!
Very interesting and educational as always! If you have the time, we'd love to see if she still groups.
Cheers,
Jacob
Oh, I'm sure she will, cos there was nothing terrible going on under there that was disturbed.
I've owned a Canadian No4 Mk2 and a 2A, both excellent rifles.
Thank you so much for this video! I immediately ordered the book you showed from AbeBooks, since good literature on accurizing Enfields is nearly impossible to find, here in Germany... However, I do want to keep winning competitions with my two No4s and my post-war production SMLE (made in the 1950s from a 1918 receiver for some foreign gov. contract which apparently never materialised) -- I very much favor them over any other "ol' warhorse".
Very informative. Rememder being advise....never take your Enfield out of the would unless you have to. Now I know why....gremlins. Very cool rifle...really nice sights. I also liked the historic pictures.
Don't take any rifle metalwork out of the wood unless you really have to. Not just an Enfield thing.
Thanks for showing this. My mk2 needs fettling as it's not sitting securely on the drawers. It's in the original military set up rather than centre supported.
India bed and then free float the rest of the barrel on a sporter stock and it works really good. I got my bullets bullseye at 200yards using a scoped no4mk1 .
Thank you.
I have a Fulton regulated No4 Mk1.
It is centre bedded, ie midway between the the action and first barrel band.
This is achieved with a shim. The action is bedded using what appears to be dark hardwood shims.
The rifle is 1 moa capable, not bad for something from 1944.👍
Gives me ideas on how to bed a rifle .!
I have a Longbranch no4 mk1* that I'm actually thinking about trying to "restore" to original configuration. It's in a "sporter" stock and shoots fine, but I want that beautiful, full wood stock.
Also, just picked up a matching 1945 Lithgow SMLE in good condition. Eager to see how she dose at the range.
So did the rifle shoot differently after dissembling it? (The angered Gremlins)
God I love an Enfield. Have done ever since they bruised my shoulder in cadets lol
Very interesting. What about the L42A1 and the L39A1? Was the heavier barrel fully free floated or was there a contact point? How much more accurate were these than the rifles on your table? On average? Thanks you have the best information on Enfields of anybody.
Bought a nr4 mark 2 for my birthday last year, still waiting for the license. This lockdown is seriously messing with my life.
Thank you for unstocking the rifle for us.
If you could do a video on how the stock fitting was done, that would be really great. I've got a No. 4 Mk2 (Savage made) which has had the stock bubba'ed (everything ahead of the middle band gone). I wonder if there's any hope of re-bedding it with the remaining stock using this center-bedding method.
Yes, you could probably put a card or veneer shim in there, build it up with a wood block insert, or if you want to go modern, you could use bedding compound.
would have loved to see u shoot it after disassemblying it to see if any differences in yr grouping
It probably won't, particularly cos the stock wasn't especially tight on there. But it's one of those "no good can come of it" operations
Great video! I Must say though, my Lee Enfield OCD kicked in when I saw the barrel band on backwards. The screw heads should be on the left hand side of the rifle (like the rear trigger guard screw and front sight protector screw).
That's how it came to me...
@@BlokeontheRange Just thought I'd mention it. It's truly an informative video! I have a Long Branch CNo7 that was centre bedded by an armourer long ago, a great shooter.
Hopefully taking the wood off hasn't upset the gremlins too much and the old girl still shoots ok. Interesting paper shims!
10:43 I wasn't expecting to see the bolt handle move when the trigger was pulled. Is that normal on standard versions as well?
It's normal on all of them when there's no cartridge in the chamber.
cool video. This was all new to me. You will have to let us know if you made the gremlins angry.
I had a rifle that I had center bedded according to a Canadian manual that was intended to make rifles competitive at Bisley. The muzzle and throat erosion were minimal so I figured it was a good candidate. She shot 8-9 MOA beforehand and 5-6 MOA afterwards. Anecdotal, I know, but it does seem to work. However, some rifles are just dogs.
To be honest that one there sounds like a bit of a dog...
I got mine down to 2 moa and its a sporter.
I have a rifle with a 21 inch barrel and its a norinco jw 105. Im thinking of bedding the rear tang , and the recoil block on each side , and maybe a cwnter bed or india for a 3rd spot for better harmonics. Would it work do you think?
Sorry, I have no idea...
Will you ever show your full collection of guns?
The interesting pieces, over time yes :)
Well it looks like Ill have to be the one to say it. Why did you leave out the paper packer from the rear of the top hand guard after making such a point of not wanting to upset the beding of the rifle? Surely even that affects how tightly the wood work clamps up on the barrel? The late era Aussie no1 {ww2 manufacture} the top and bottom wood in the hand guard made contact with each other and the extra downwards pressure would affect the upwards barrel pressure? Or in fact this has sailed above my head at an unattainable height?
Cheers
All the paper shims went back in. They aren't part of the bedding though, they're just to stop the handguards rattling. The No.1 bedding works totally differently btw...
@@BlokeontheRange at 18:28 to me it looked like it was sitting on the table directly in front of you. No dramas
"Now, that was not what I was expecting to find at all...." Wouldn't be Bloke on the Range if...... Brits waxing poetic about compensating whip. Americans' eyes glazing over...
My dinner went cool because I watched the video.
I have a no 4 Mk j........any help on what this rifle is?? I can not find anything on it.
No.4 Mk.I where "I" is a roman numeral "1"...
If the gremlins were angered, I hear that an offering of Gin and Tonic followed by a rousing round or two of God save the Queen is the proper ritual. Or hours of assembly/disassembly, shimming and possibly cursing. Cheers. Thanks for the video.
Hi Mike, what about the handguard packing?
That's an SMLE thing, not a No.4 thing :)
Should I try my no4 mk2 without the cork packing then? 😃 i bought it completely free floated, then I center bedded to 11lbs as wrote in the Canadian bedding manual & enfield accurizing book they suggested to cork the handguard. What do you think about it?
Dunno, never tried it, and Fulton / AJP only centre bedded them. Where did you put the top packing? I've seen 1 light barrel .308 centre bedded / packed with card but I don't know how it shoots.
@@BlokeontheRange i packed it with 2mm cork painted with oil and fine powdered graphite just over the center bearing, well I have bad eye sight, so the further I have shoot it is 200mt, it groups 10 rounds in the 8cm 10 ring of the 11 bis target.
So I think about 2/3 moa, maybe in the hands of a better shooter it can do better 😊
how dos service rifle work now that no one can own a SA80 ? is service rifle now shot with not service rifles ?
What was Service Rifle (b) is now "Target Rifle". You've also got Historic Service Rifle and Civilian Service Rifle, which are more recent and more dynamic disciplines:
HSR: ruclips.net/video/6gjfVGa9yWQ/видео.html
CSR: ruclips.net/video/KoF83f30mIk/видео.html
I had a no4 mk2 recicer with the barrel and its tip was blown off. Sold it for 10$ with full wood stocks but no moving parts, stripped of all parts. This guy who i sold it to put a 308 barrel on and bolt ,magazine , scope moun t , scope , its missing the safety right now and he put it in a 1 piece stock. It looks like a newer rifle. I think ill buy it back from him once it s shooting.
Why did the free floated barrel result in accuracy problems?
Because the barrel is a bit whippy when unsupported.
probably because the barrel was too thin
The barrels would move when they heated up. When the rifles were built, there were areas in the fore stock that kept pressure on key points of the barrel to minimize movement as the relatively thin barrel got hot.
This is why many modern rifles have "bull" barrels. They don't warp with heat.
No, it's just literally that lighter, whippier barrels need support to damp down their natural vibrations, whereas thicker barrels can self-support adequately. Barrel heating is another question entirely, although a related one.
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks for the reply
Someone get that man decent set of turnscrews !
Andy McClements . . . just a friendly reminder that Lee Enfield rifles have the screw heads on the left side. Bloke needs to flip those bands around.
I’m terrified of disturbing the gremlins of the stock in my rifle.
Notification gang
Huzzah!!!
Enfield rules
Mauser drools
Mine is one of the Lithgow W W II SMLE's so I guess none of this would have been done?
No. If that had been set up for serious target shooting it would have been packed up front.
I have a Lithgow no3, magazine sling swivel, central sight, apparently rebarrelled
But I don’t know enough about the SMLEs in general
Anyways off to c&rsenal
I don't know how anyone could perceive this fascinating video as 'boring'. I own three Lee Enfield civilian target rifles, the newest one being a No.1 MkIII regulated by Fulton and Son of Bisley. The other two are a M.L.E. and a C.L.L.E. It's obvious a lot of research and effort has gone into accurizing the various marks of Lee Enfields over the years with the addition of up pressure and in the case of my SMLE, down pressure by the addition of an extra barrel band 2/3 of the way down the barrel. I'd love to disassemble the No.1 but I'm afraid of two things: that I may awake the gremlins as you so eloquently put it and never, ever re-attain the accuracy of the rifle and the other is that during the regulation process some gunsmiths used asbestos mats to achieve the up pressure on the barrel. If there is any possibility that asbestos was used on my rifle, that is one 'Gremlin' I definitely don't want to awake.
Late night blokey😀
Sorry might be MK L.....old eyes
I have an _Alf.J.Parker_ No4........a 1949 Maltby. As far as I can tell, apart from stamping his name on the receiver,possibly blueing the action (with little or no surface polishing), fitting TZ4.47 rear sights, a PH front tunnel and putting the odd vaneer shim under the upper wood, old Alf did nothing whatsoever to the rifle that Maltby hadn't already done. And,unsurprisingly, it shoots no better than an issue No4. No doubt there was as much, if not more, chatter and utter BS flying around Bisley amongst the chattering classes about "stocking" and "headspace" back in the days of Service A and B as there is now about Enfields. I suppose one could look at the stocking of the L42A1 and look how that is stocked and consider it the final word on "stocking"
Interesting! Nobody talked about headspace though, that's a particularly US obsession :)
The lack of block is a let down NgL.
My ex enfield :emo: At 4min you are reading, and reading is cheating Sir! 😂
I like apples
One wonders at times how any of these fussy little guns survive when they dislike their metal being removed from the wood so. How does one clean such guns when you can't get under the barrel lest you incur the wrath of gremlins? Did the British really have that much faith in their underbarrel grease that they didn't feel the need to regularly pull the stock off?
Soldiers were not allowed to take the wood out of the metal, it was an armourer's tast. Same in most armies with bolt-action rifles - my US arsenal refurbed M1917 had its screws staked for this very reason. And most rifles will suffer from wear if it's done frequently, which is why so many M1 Garands are loose in the stock and don't shoot for toffee as a result.
Why the obsession with taking the metal out of the wood to clean under it? Seems to be an American thing, possibly as a result of the M1 Garand and M14 where it had to be done to strip the rifle at all.
Now, if you want to talk about "fussy little guns" that go wrong if you look at them, have a look some time at accurised M14/M1A/M1 rifles ;)
@@BlokeontheRange Oh so true. I should have qualified more that I don't think only Lee rifles are so fussy. It is just a wonder at times how any of the old wood-and-steel military rifles don't rust to death under the barrels more considering how touchy many designs are about being disassembled and the frequency with which soldiers can and do get dust and water in their stocks during service. A real testament to the art of bluing and other arcane practices that keep that pesky iron oxide under control. Also makes one appreciate the simple virtues of free-floated barrels all the more.
@@BlokeontheRange The difference between an bolt action and a self loader should be pretty clear. One has to remove the barreled action on a self loader to clean the powder fouling out of it. Bolt guns don't get this fouling.
The Lee Enfields are not fussy little guns, and neither are Garands. However, removing the stock to clean the rifle is a uniquely American...thing. Which is why you can pick up a surplus M1, M1903, M1917 or M14 that isn't caked with dirt, vegetable matter, and rust below the stockline. Unlike every Mauser, Mosin, SKS, or Lee Enfield I have ever bought.
Wut? Sorry, but you might like to reconsider that. You don't have to take the barrelled action out of an SVT40, MAS 49/56, SKS, SAFN-49 or similar. In fact, you can't do it easily at all, it's an armourer's job, sometimes even requiring special tools (to prevent soldiers trying it when bored). M1's and M14's need to be taken out of the stock simply to remove the bolt and op rod, which can be done with all the others without separating wood and metal, and is probably where this obsession with separating wood and metal comes from.
thx, i was scared you would ruin your rifle, should have known better
You are right, that is a nasty rifle. Tell you what, I'll take it off your hands, and save you the embarrassment. Now excuse me as I watch your video a second time.