I was so upset that all that 3dprinter videos were serious... And boring Bit this guy... He's different. He has that old fashioned English sense of humor built in . Luv ya wigga
@@NathanBuildsRobots yep Sherlock Clearly 4me. And can't judge people for improvement. You could mention that creality made this design be unable to take water-cooling hot end without replacing it all and I wish you will made your board in some kind of liquid crystal ready option as stock as it can be so I replace it in two of my printers. I can c them going in that ender 5 s1 to different direction. As they did b4 in that fully modable way, they've prove "we can produce RTP and maintenance free 4 dummies" But I believe they ment to be "do as u want" like b4 . I want to water cool hot end with cooling block and use pc components. Here I need kit. Creality ender 3 kit without radiator.... Why they don't provide only cooling block 4 water-cooling?
@@jaroslawzmuda8963 I am anti-watercooling. It looks cool, I just don't see the need for it. My 10 yr old PC is running the same noctua air cooler, stuff just lasts! I am working on some other designs for breakout boards so it's always good to hear what people are looking for.
You've got great comedic timing & editorial craft. My favorite FDM printing channel by far. The design flaw really looks like a miscommunication in house at Creality. Like the designers were overridden by someone in charge of production who was cutting some corners,
Impressive work Nathan Builds Robots ! At 11:01 we can also see the air flow pattern deflecting some of the pepper out and away from your pot containing the water. Great work with your video and information. Plus your sense of humor is great !
I noticed that there is a significant updraft. That is how all the pepper got on top of the extruder. I thought about adding an acrylic shield across the front and back, so its like a little fishbowl you can look into. But for now, its doing a fine job and actions have unforeseen consequences. my concern is the addition of those shields It might create a larger dead-zone in the center. If you look at a mathematical model of this flow, the *point* in the exact center in between the fans, has zero air velocity. You will notice some pepper chunks get stuck there. So no cooling! But its an unstable point and quickly turns into rapidly moving air when you step 0.1mm away from the exact center.
In regards to that breakout board,Haha check this out. So I went to put on a new hot end the 300c one and once I got it all together the little plug on my new thermistor was too small. After doing some research thinking I got the wrong part I eventually realized that my E3s1 has a manufacturing flaw. The thermistor connection is much bigger on my board then everything I see online and part wise, mine is more like 2.0 or 1.5m. I came to the conclusion that Creality must have got a batch of the wrong connectors and just decided to use them. This sounds like your backwards 1.25 thermistor connector its an issue with the same thing. Interestingly enough I have actually bought 2 E3s1 from the same store one is kept unopen and I wonder if it has the same story going on.
I think the non-stalling pressure front where the two fans meet is a happy accident from residual flow speed bias on each nozzle exit imparted from the non uniform exit characteristics from the centrifugal fan exits. A fair bit of thought needs to go into good ducting design. I suspect a lot of further improvement could be made.
There is always room for improvement. I studied design optimization in college. It almost like like laminar flow at 50% fan speed and turbulent at 100% Or maybe at 50% speed the air is turbulent but the water is laminar. Are there some terms i can Google to better understand the flow bias stuff?
The creality sermoon v1 has the sprite this way around and has the 4010 fan mounted underneath, just behind the hot end. Its great to see everything for sure. I might give your fans a go!
Your actually awesome Nathan, just got my modder board of you and it’s brilliant!! My S1 pro has finally turned into the machine I wanted it to be :) thank you, I also have got a K1.. it may have bad reviews but so far it’s been doing great and it’s easy to print and not worry about it, your videos are great and I love watching them
I have a tevo tarantula Pro that I modified the hot end using an all metal E3D v6 and a BMG extruder along with dual spandex and the beauty of the whole thing is is the motor is on the side attached to the extruder and the V6 hot end is directly underneath and invisible the way it ought to be. So Make a hot end where the stepper motor and the extruder are rotated 90°.
i wanna come back to this and just state that there are many remakes of the s1 apparently, the extruder (sprite) appears different like its been flipped with a front plate put on and in even newer or recent s1 I have seen like the link below for Amazon it looks like it got a complete makeover!
I like the concept of your idea - increased visibility, easier service, etc, and would like to see you take this through to a complete upgrade package for you to make available. Maybe a linear rail would be a solution for the increased offset ? Creality is probably looking at your idea and might use it in a new model when they get over having their ego's hurt. I wish you luck in finishing because your idea looks like the better product they originally "intended".
Hey Nathan, great video. I like the humor so i hope you keep doing that on your next videos 😄. About the extruder, I think its not supposed to be backwards like you said but sideways like the BMG extruders or Hemera design. The handle you press the release the pressure would look towards you that way.
I had mentioned that probably being the best compromise between the strength and visibility but edited it out. The only issue with sideways orientation is it would make adding a dual fan dual duct design more difficult, and I really wanted to try a dual fan-dual duct design on this thing.
Wheel artifacts show up on all printers that use them. People have come to think they are normal, or confuse them with extrusion inconsistencies. But if it is a straight line through the part on a specific x or y coordinate, and repeating periodically, it is due to the wheels.
Sir. Great video. You explained it in a manner where an intimidating subject such as 3d printers operation design is not longer as intimidating. You remind me of that hard working employee that sees the bosses make the dumb and inefficient decisions they do, so you took it upon yourself to do it the right way, even if it is not profitable for the company at first. Eventually, when trust is gained, profits will come.
I bought an ender 3 s1 pro a couple weeks ago. It's my first 3d printer. I have no experience before this printer, and it still felt like it was not supposed to be designed the way it turned out. It seems like it's putting way too much weight away from the gantry. I don't get these people that redesign theirs to put more weight even further out. It seems to me like doing that would make exaggerate any bumps and jostling back and forth and cause the nozzle to dig into what it's extruding. I also noted what you said about those heat fins being covered up. You don't have to be a genius to know that covering up heat fins, which are intended to bleed off heat, can't do its job. Why the hell would you design in heat fins that go nowhere? I think your right about everything.
its available now. I am offering 50% off to people affected by the first cancellation
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Well, all the marketing material shows the back side which, as you pointed out, is actually under the breakout board, and I think in your CR-10 SE review you also showed that they are now using it flipped as you did in this video, so I think you are right, they designed it to be used in that way but changed their minds for some reason 👍
21:15 thinking things through before releasing them? creality couldnt hear that comment because they were too busy laughing over the sound of money counting machines. see ender 4 and ender 7 as prime examples
I wonder how well this design would work with a stock heatbreak and two 4020 blower fans. This looks awesome! I love my modder board but will be looking forward to a video on your next one.
Nice, glad to hear the modder board is working for you! I have been looking at a lot of fans. The thing about 4020 fans is they have a wider outlet, so they are more optimized for high flow than high pressure, I think the 5015 is ideal for part cooling, but 4020 is just about as good. The big advantage of 4020 is they are much easier to design around. 4020s are roughly the same size as a stepper motor, so everything just fits together real nice. 5015 fans have a really whacky shape. It's hard to design for.
Major? I don't think so. An important one? Sure... As he stated, there are compromise in most designs. Especially how he points it out the many compromises Creality decided on here. He explained everything and why he chose his design.
Yeah but at least I bring it up :P I know its a downside but it didnt appear to make that much of a difference in the prints that I was working on. If it's on the other side of the gantry, it might interfere with the everything needs to be flipped around. Honestly it might make more sense to just put the screen on backwards and look at the printer from behind. But still you have a wheel and x extrusion blocking your view. I really want to take a close look at the Ender 5 S1 hotend. Looks interesting, and like they solve a lot of problems with the Ender 3 S1 implementation of the sprite hotend. However, from what I've seen, part visibility isn't great, which is a shame. Low hanging fruit!
Goddamnit I've had that polarity switched around fan between my S1 and CR4 and it almost fucked up my printer. It drives me nuts. Fucking Creality man...
Creality made the sprite extruder this way for one lucky creator to really deep dive into it like an investigative detective. Now if they see it maybe they'll be able to save money from creating new supply chain products! 😂
Huge fan. I just finishing of my heavyly modded ender 5. Not the stuff that everyone does.mine has 3 screw bed a true z axis floating bed and the sprite extruder modifide to keep full bed demension. I would like to show you.
I don't remember to see any discussion about where to take the air for the parts cooling of FDM printers... temperature may change a lot. I mean: Should the air have the bed temperature? Maybe, as it's supposed to be the temperature we want for the part being printed. Or should it take air from the room, colder? The part will cool better in that case... right? Cheers
It is! Started from scratch and it's what made the most sense to me. I would also consider a sideways mounted design, it would be a good compromise between visibility and strength. Only downside is dual duct part cooling would be more difficult to pull off, and I really wanted to do a good dual part cooling fan setup since people have been asking for it.
Thanks Nathan, I always enjoy your video's even when I'm decrying them! :-) I suspect you are right about the way the Sprite print head faces. I *know* you are correct about the difficulty of seeing the printing nozzle because that has always bugged me about it too. But when it comes down to it the main thing is the quality of the print output and I give credit to Creality for realising the nozzle needs to be as close to the X axis as possible and not opting for the best looking result - yay, engineering triumphs over 'the look'. The result is extremely high quality prints at the moderate speeds the printer is designed to print at. The print head is nice and narrow so you can see the nozzle from the side pretty well. My solution to faster printing is to run two printers simultaneously - I'm doing that right now. Even the cooling fan is fine for printing PLA at 50mm/sec so I don't see the need to touch the Sprite at all - I think its perfect in the context of its intended use. I'm very intrigued by your video's on high flow printing and the general buzz around printing at higher speeds using Klipper with Core XY machines on rails. But I think to explore those paths you need a different machine or dedicate your modding of a machine for one of those particular purposes - expecting one machine to fulfil all requirements is unrealistic . I also think there are technical problems with high speed printing that aren't yet fully overcome - the drawbacks of rail systems, the need for a light print head that at the moment forces you back to a bowden setup for the lightest configuration. I would like to buy an Ender 5 and play around with some of these options as I think that format of printer suits Klipper better than a bed slinger and rail conversions exist for it too. Oh and you've got a new patreon - keep up the good work and keep enjoying yourself as much as you seem to!
@@NathanBuildsRobots been thinking of klipperizing my S1. Most reviews show a 3x print speed improvement with no loss in quality - up to 150mm/s with good results, faster with worsening results
Creality, or any company for that matter, aren't going to pay for a design that is posted for free on the internet! But they are doing a fine job of designing non-optimal products for me to make content/improvements/mods on, so it's all good.
Oh yeah.. this is a doer... Im on it now... Going to love bringing back the great panaramic print view again and not worry about the original smacking me in the head while using the magnifying glass when looking at the print nozzle doing its thang!. LOL 🤣
i REALLY NEED TO DO THIS ... Great video - I've just got into 3d printing 3 weeks ago - ender 3 s1 pro , I hope to think I am right in thinking it fine for this, meaning if I get your breakout board and print ducts etc - yes ? As I've used noctua fans for modding a ps3 and ps4 and know how good they are - I think the idea is perfect and looking forward to getting it on mine.
@@NathanBuildsRobots That's weirdly accurate. Last night, I was trying to derive the idealized formula for fan speed vs. voltage since I'm running 12V fans at 24V (75% PWM duty cycle) to get more part cooling. It's absurd how much cooling you can get with a 5015 running 2x voltage.
the reversed polarity jst connectors from creality is down right evil and borderline criminal. i fried one of the fan traces on the board almost exactly as you show 24:33 but i think just one or two traces to the right of that one you show. since ive done that ive tried to search through hell and high water for a stock pcb sprite pro board but as far as i know you cant even buy just the board alone. once again, creality probably does that on purpose so you have to buy the entire extruder. which is where the criminal aspect of my rant comes in, lol. however the bright shining light in my search of the pcb is that i came across your modder board. it was like a hand given gift from an angel that pierced through the hell and high water i was stuck in and brought me back to the light. it is going to be such an excellent upgrade. thank you for what your doing for the community, we all greatly appreciate it. i just need it to be past the new year already so you can ship it to me ;]
The only thing I was confused about is why you had to cut down the heat break? What am I missing. Ordered your board so I can perform this mod on my ender 3 S1
Nathan, great work! Love what you did to an already decent printer (IMHO it's good for someone who just got into 3d printing and has no experience whatsoever and just wants to print). Will you be selling complete kits? Also is the board green or black (I want the black one to keep design matching 🖤)? And lastly, shipping to EU possible?
Yes to EU shipping, and new boards are Black and gold. The 1st edition were super-matte black, which looks really good, but the new ones are regular matte black, and have less gold accents. So less blingy but still black and gold. Right now shipping is $15-$20. I am looking for an EU distributor to bring that cost down, but it will take a couple months to set that up.
I'd like to see someone wire up a small pinhole cam to an extruder then be able to view it on the screen / Sonic pad maybe. That would be awesome. No more need for a webcam or flipping extruders around. But it's gotta be 4k ;)
This will be my first mod. I got a k1 2 months ago. Just picked up an s1 to I could do this for fun. Do you just flip it around? And that's it? Also do you have any suggestions for that trimming on the hot end you did or is it just obvious once you get to that step? Also.. Will all this work for the regular s1 because I just picked it up at microcenter for 150 tax included and didn't wanna pass it up.
i have no idea why everyone is bothering with fan mods. This printer prints best at 50/60mm/s, maybe a tiny bit more..the 4010 fan it comes with is more than you need for that. Why would you sacrifice quality and put stress on the components, just to make a point that you CAN print faster.
I have a brand new S1 Pro that hasn't printed yet, I plan to install a Sonic Pad on it and other mods right out of the gate. Is there a version of the hotend you use that uses the stock type nozzles? I have already invested in a diamond tipped nozzle and don't want to have to change to totally different nozzles than my V2 uses.
Edit: no matter what, I'll be buying your board so I can add things easier. Kinda want a volcano hotend with a CHT. I have a CHT mk8 on the stock block. Need a second fan without splicing wires and buck converters. Lol Original: How well does this cooling work for faster printing? I can't get the bow of my PLA benchys to print faster than 50mm/s, without at least starting to curl and grinding the nozzle on the last layer. I even put a desk fan, right up on the front of my print. TPU.... Ugh, I gotta print at 10mm/s. 😂😢 And I have the reindeer antler part cooling fan from printables.
My S1 Pro's extruder just died during a print. Spins smooth by hand, locks when commanded, but wont extrude or retract. Just clunks like a motor release then nothing. Motor or driver? If I could plug in another stepper I could find out but......thanks Creality
With the air shank design, how do you set x,y offset with sonic pad/klipper? Mostly trying to figure out parameters for bed level manual/auto. It tries to level out the bl touch about an inch in front of the bed.
You have to log into the web interface and change the printer.cfg file and possibly some mesh settings. It’s not too challenging, but requires a little work
Ok I think I got it. Although it appears rotating the print head removes 30 mm of print space from the back of the build plate. At least for an e3s1pro. Going to have to mess with it more
Its in the description (affiliate link) amzn.to/3g3ud26 I like these because they simplify everything and shrink it down in size. I don't think they are particularly fast, or better performing than the stock heater block, but its just the size/convenience that I like.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm thinking of getting the "Ender-3 S1/ S1 Pro High Flow Kit" for my S1 Pro. I have the Sonic Pad running Klipper behind it. What would you do if you were me? I'm a newer maker with 2 printers. My other is a Qidi X-max.
@@ErichHarder hi Erich, I mean no offense by this, but this exactly what Creality wants. For pople to buy upgrade kits through them, because of their silly non standard connectors. For the old Ender 3 printers, people can choose between a lot of different vendors because they all use standardized connectors. But now you have to buy upgrades from Creality, unless you invest in all of the soldiering and Crimping tools to adapt to their cable types. That said, their kit looks OK. I would recommend a CHT nozzle to get increased flow rates. Since you already have the S1 Pro, you already have an all- metal heatbreak. If you get their kit you will have to change your part cooling fan since the new hotend is longer.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I appreciate this. I already planned on changing my fan to a 5015 fan because having the Sonic Pad and Klipper seems to almost require it because of the higher speeds and hotter temps that I generally run due to those higher speeds. I have plenty of tools and am willing to do some modding if it means I can basically get off the teat of Creality. So you think a CHT nozzle would be a good bet??
Question. By moving the hotend towards the front I'm assuming you won't be able to utilize the full build plate? Wouldn't it move all the prints further forward and not be able to print towards the back of it?
Thats a good idea, just install the whole upper part of the machine "backwards". It would require some changes to make it work, 100% but shouldnt be that hard!
I have two noctua 4020 from the previous design, is it possible to make one thay works for that? also, if using the factory heat block would this need modification?
The wires for the factory heat block are super short, so it's hard to make it work. There might be a way to use 4020 fans. I would start from scratch with a new design instead of adapting this one
Hi I have an ender 3 s1 and I connected a fan to it and it gave off a burnt smell and now the fan doesn't work I tried to change the fan I tried the motherboard in the extruder and it still doesn't work I would be happy if you could tell me if you know what the problem could be
@@Torskel do you know of any 3d printer companies that would be a reseller for this board for EU? I have heard of 3djake, but I don't but things over there so I don't know the vendors
@@JustCreateYou It could be adapted to the stock hotend, stock side forward. I may do that when I have some time to do CAD. It would require some changes, but the main idea could be maintained.
I was thinking of building a fan duct using copper brake pipes and a manifold to direct the air close and directly to the printed filament as it lays down, can anyone think of any reason this might not work or any problems that might be encountered in this endeavour?
Andrew... You can't just open a thermodynamic can of worms like that! This will take 30 minutes to answer correctly, so I will yield to callardo1's answer. There are a few clips of such a system in my ERRF video. Main downside is they are loud as heck!
@@NathanBuildsRobots The sound wont bother me as my printers are in my workshop which is freezing in winter and too hot in summer it wasnt so bad until the energy prices went high north as I could afford to heat or cool it, I watch the first layer going down and then retreat to the comfort of the house or in summer the garden and keep an eye on them over the network
So you complain that creality locks you in. On the other hand you sell the modderboard and put the project files behind the Patreon paywall. And it worked with me. I bought the board and became a patreon. Still, same thing, wouldn't you say?
That’s the price of convenience :P Though with the modder boards, most people don’t go down the upgrade path I intended. It’s not locked down at all, you can plug whatever into it.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yeah, I think I will though. I like to see what I'm printing. I'm also sure that I will be plugging in some other stuff into the modderboard :)
Finally someone confirming that the S1 is basically an overpriced bad design. Creality started off great with the simplicity of the Ender3, but went only downhill the past years...
I think the pricing for the sprite is quite good... You can find it for $40-$60 on sale for the extruder, stepper motor, and hotend. That's quite a competitive price, and the extruder goes fast! Depending on the nozzle, it maxes out between 16mm^3/s-75mm^3/s - nothing to scoff at! That is premium performance in terms of extrusion speed. BUT where they get it wrong is the incompatibility issues that require you to buy a full $110 kit with new wires, breakout board, plus another $30 for a CR-Touch, etc. It just feels like you're getting nickle and dimed to get the full setup that actually works. If it just used all the old connectors, like the ones every other printer on the market uses, and the option to run a traditional wiring harness down the mainboard, I would absolutely recommend it as the best deals out there.
Now that the good looking side is facing forward, all you have to do is make it look good. Clean up the rats nest of cables and use a matte filament, like hatchboxes magic stone or something. And I suppose the modder board doesn't need to be on the extruder so extend the hell out of the rest of those cables and run them along the ribbon to inside the printer. Modder board uggo bro. One of the main charms of the sprite hotend was it's form factor and extreme density. And you just went and splayed it all out like a hooker on PCP. You tried taking a few steps forward but stumbled backwards and landed on your ass with this attempt at making it look better bud.
BLTOUCH lol. Should make a comparison video of BLTouch on a Ender 3 S1 Pro and also the 3DTouch. Don't you just love how the Chinese rip off patented technology and call it their own? I think it's just crazy how on their websites they'll tout the fact that they have patents because it's really easy for them to take someone else's patented tech and patent it in China. It's like hey look. Here's our open source 3D printer, but it's patented by us in China. Take that Western world!
Well, there is no global system for patents, so it sounds fair to me! I believe in the US, the patent rights belong to the inventor to create something, not the first US inventor to create it. So if a foreign inventor comes up with something, I don't think someone can patent it just because it hasn't been filed in the US yet. I don't know anything about Chinese patent law (sounds lilke an oxymoron to me)
I was so upset that all that 3dprinter videos were serious... And boring
Bit this guy...
He's different.
He has that old fashioned English sense of humor built in . Luv ya wigga
Thanks Jaroslaw, I am not trying to sell things, just entertain and show off the things I like using. Printing should be fun!
@@NathanBuildsRobots yep Sherlock
Clearly 4me.
And can't judge people for improvement.
You could mention that creality made this design be unable to take water-cooling hot end without replacing it all and I wish you will made your board in some kind of liquid crystal ready option as stock as it can be so I replace it in two of my printers.
I can c them going in that ender 5 s1 to different direction.
As they did b4 in that fully modable way, they've prove "we can produce RTP and maintenance free 4 dummies"
But I believe they ment to be "do as u want" like b4 .
I want to water cool hot end with cooling block and use pc components. Here I need kit. Creality ender 3 kit without radiator.... Why they don't provide only cooling block 4 water-cooling?
@@jaroslawzmuda8963 I am anti-watercooling. It looks cool, I just don't see the need for it. My 10 yr old PC is running the same noctua air cooler, stuff just lasts!
I am working on some other designs for breakout boards so it's always good to hear what people are looking for.
Lol more pepper, man. I love the focus on casual curiosity, that is where great ideas come from.
Sorry for the 4 minute pepper water montage, it was just so beautiful!
You've got great comedic timing & editorial craft. My favorite FDM printing channel by far. The design flaw really looks like a miscommunication in house at Creality. Like the designers were overridden by someone in charge of production who was cutting some corners,
Thank you, glad your a fan. I like fans, especially the kind that provide part cooling!
They should just copy bambulabs hotend design 😄
I was thinking just the same thing. I hope that Creality has people going trough these youtube channels and find about this video and your comment.
Impressive work Nathan Builds Robots ! At 11:01 we can also see the air flow pattern deflecting some of the pepper out and away from your pot containing the water. Great work with your video and information. Plus your sense of humor is great !
I noticed that there is a significant updraft. That is how all the pepper got on top of the extruder. I thought about adding an acrylic shield across the front and back, so its like a little fishbowl you can look into. But for now, its doing a fine job and actions have unforeseen consequences. my concern is the addition of those shields It might create a larger dead-zone in the center. If you look at a mathematical model of this flow, the *point* in the exact center in between the fans, has zero air velocity. You will notice some pepper chunks get stuck there. So no cooling! But its an unstable point and quickly turns into rapidly moving air when you step 0.1mm away from the exact center.
Best episode of CSI I’ve ever seen. YYYEEEAAAAHHHHH
Sorry there were no googly eyes, I hope you can forgive me.
In regards to that breakout board,Haha check this out. So I went to put on a new hot end the 300c one and once I got it all together the little plug on my new thermistor was too small. After doing some research thinking I got the wrong part I eventually realized that my E3s1 has a manufacturing flaw. The thermistor connection is much bigger on my board then everything I see online and part wise, mine is more like 2.0 or 1.5m. I came to the conclusion that Creality must have got a batch of the wrong connectors and just decided to use them. This sounds like your backwards 1.25 thermistor connector its an issue with the same thing. Interestingly enough I have actually bought 2 E3s1 from the same store one is kept unopen and I wonder if it has the same story going on.
My take away was to put my camera on the back side. Now I can clearly see the nozzle and all print activity!
Love the 3D Printer Mystbuster Show!
I think the non-stalling pressure front where the two fans meet is a happy accident from residual flow speed bias on each nozzle exit imparted from the non uniform exit characteristics from the centrifugal fan exits. A fair bit of thought needs to go into good ducting design. I suspect a lot of further improvement could be made.
There is always room for improvement. I studied design optimization in college.
It almost like like laminar flow at 50% fan speed and turbulent at 100%
Or maybe at 50% speed the air is turbulent but the water is laminar.
Are there some terms i can Google to better understand the flow bias stuff?
The creality sermoon v1 has the sprite this way around and has the 4010 fan mounted underneath, just behind the hot end. Its great to see everything for sure. I might give your fans a go!
Your actually awesome Nathan, just got my modder board of you and it’s brilliant!! My S1 pro has finally turned into the machine I wanted it to be :) thank you, I also have got a K1.. it may have bad reviews but so far it’s been doing great and it’s easy to print and not worry about it, your videos are great and I love watching them
Thank you!
I've been using my s1 backwards too! I just unmounted the display and physically rotated the printer around so I'm looking at the entire back lol
Nice, that would have been easier!
funniest guy on youtube hands down. you almost drowned that hotend in pepper water
I have a tevo tarantula Pro that I modified the hot end using an all metal E3D v6 and a BMG extruder along with dual spandex and the beauty of the whole thing is is the motor is on the side attached to the extruder and the V6 hot end is directly underneath and invisible the way it ought to be. So Make a hot end where the stepper motor and the extruder are rotated 90°.
I like watching the plastic lay down line by line, so the less obstructions the better!
premium content 👌 love the special agent
i wanna come back to this and just state that there are many remakes of the s1 apparently, the extruder (sprite) appears different like its been flipped with a front plate put on and in even newer or recent s1 I have seen like the link below for Amazon it looks like it got a complete makeover!
That's interesting!
I like the concept of your idea - increased visibility, easier service, etc, and would like to see you take this through to a complete upgrade package for you to make available. Maybe a linear rail would be a solution for the increased offset ? Creality is probably looking at your idea and might use it in a new model when they get over having their ego's hurt. I wish you luck in finishing because your idea looks like the better product they originally "intended".
Linear rail would be a good upgrade to go along with this
Hey Nathan, great video. I like the humor so i hope you keep doing that on your next videos 😄. About the extruder, I think its not supposed to be backwards like you said but sideways like the BMG extruders or Hemera design. The handle you press the release the pressure would look towards you that way.
I had mentioned that probably being the best compromise between the strength and visibility but edited it out.
The only issue with sideways orientation is it would make adding a dual fan dual duct design more difficult, and I really wanted to try a dual fan-dual duct design on this thing.
The deep dive on wheels sounds really interesting.
Wheel artifacts show up on all printers that use them. People have come to think they are normal, or confuse them with extrusion inconsistencies. But if it is a straight line through the part on a specific x or y coordinate, and repeating periodically, it is due to the wheels.
Sir. Great video. You explained it in a manner where an intimidating subject such as 3d printers operation design is not longer as intimidating. You remind me of that hard working employee that sees the bosses make the dumb and inefficient decisions they do, so you took it upon yourself to do it the right way, even if it is not profitable for the company at first. Eventually, when trust is gained, profits will come.
Yes, that is me in real life!
I bought an ender 3 s1 pro a couple weeks ago. It's my first 3d printer. I have no experience before this printer, and it still felt like it was not supposed to be designed the way it turned out. It seems like it's putting way too much weight away from the gantry. I don't get these people that redesign theirs to put more weight even further out. It seems to me like doing that would make exaggerate any bumps and jostling back and forth and cause the nozzle to dig into what it's extruding. I also noted what you said about those heat fins being covered up. You don't have to be a genius to know that covering up heat fins, which are intended to bleed off heat, can't do its job. Why the hell would you design in heat fins that go nowhere? I think your right about everything.
"I think your right about everything."
Mee too :P
Great video Nathan, is the modder board available internationally now, or is that in the future?
its available now. I am offering 50% off to people affected by the first cancellation
Well, all the marketing material shows the back side which, as you pointed out, is actually under the breakout board, and I think in your CR-10 SE review you also showed that they are now using it flipped as you did in this video, so I think you are right, they designed it to be used in that way but changed their minds for some reason 👍
Oh nice, I spotted a Knipex 1/6 86 05 150 or similar model of plier wrench.
Only the finest tools!
21:15 thinking things through before releasing them? creality couldnt hear that comment because they were too busy laughing over the sound of money counting machines. see ender 4 and ender 7 as prime examples
Here's one of my thoughts: When you design a 3D or maybe 4-5D printer, I'm going to buy it.
4.5D Printer coming right up!
This.
Please.
@@217RockStar217 Gotta work my way there, bit by bit. I've got a road map!
I wonder how well this design would work with a stock heatbreak and two 4020 blower fans. This looks awesome! I love my modder board but will be looking forward to a video on your next one.
Nice, glad to hear the modder board is working for you! I have been looking at a lot of fans. The thing about 4020 fans is they have a wider outlet, so they are more optimized for high flow than high pressure, I think the 5015 is ideal for part cooling, but 4020 is just about as good.
The big advantage of 4020 is they are much easier to design around. 4020s are roughly the same size as a stepper motor, so everything just fits together real nice. 5015 fans have a really whacky shape. It's hard to design for.
20:25 It's a major issue with your design imho. If you want to see the nozzle, just put it on the other side of the X gantry...
Major? I don't think so. An important one? Sure... As he stated, there are compromise in most designs. Especially how he points it out the many compromises Creality decided on here. He explained everything and why he chose his design.
Yeah but at least I bring it up :P I know its a downside but it didnt appear to make that much of a difference in the prints that I was working on.
If it's on the other side of the gantry, it might interfere with the everything needs to be flipped around. Honestly it might make more sense to just put the screen on backwards and look at the printer from behind. But still you have a wheel and x extrusion blocking your view.
I really want to take a close look at the Ender 5 S1 hotend. Looks interesting, and like they solve a lot of problems with the Ender 3 S1 implementation of the sprite hotend. However, from what I've seen, part visibility isn't great, which is a shame. Low hanging fruit!
Goddamnit I've had that polarity switched around fan between my S1 and CR4 and it almost fucked up my printer. It drives me nuts. Fucking Creality man...
Creality made the sprite extruder this way for one lucky creator to really deep dive into it like an investigative detective.
Now if they see it maybe they'll be able to save money from creating new supply chain products! 😂
They said they are going to send me an Ender 5 S1 but I'm not so sure now.... LOL
Great video, a lot of valid points. The detective look is great, very 80s. Instantly thought you had an alcohol problem and a wife cheating on you.
I wanted to do a "You're off the case. I want your badge and your gun" trope
Lol!
Huge fan. I just finishing of my heavyly modded ender 5. Not the stuff that everyone does.mine has 3 screw bed a true z axis floating bed and the sprite extruder modifide to keep full bed demension. I would like to show you.
Sounds like a great printer. Try joining the discord!
I don't remember to see any discussion about where to take the air for the parts cooling of FDM printers... temperature may change a lot. I mean: Should the air have the bed temperature? Maybe, as it's supposed to be the temperature we want for the part being printed. Or should it take air from the room, colder? The part will cool better in that case... right? Cheers
remember to always use freshly cracked pepper for your flow visualizations
I paid extra for the NASA grade precision calibrated peppercorns.
That's a totally different design 🤗👍
It is! Started from scratch and it's what made the most sense to me. I would also consider a sideways mounted design, it would be a good compromise between visibility and strength. Only downside is dual duct part cooling would be more difficult to pull off, and I really wanted to do a good dual part cooling fan setup since people have been asking for it.
Thanks Nathan, I always enjoy your video's even when I'm decrying them! :-) I suspect you are right about the way the Sprite print head faces. I *know* you are correct about the difficulty of seeing the printing nozzle because that has always bugged me about it too. But when it comes down to it the main thing is the quality of the print output and I give credit to Creality for realising the nozzle needs to be as close to the X axis as possible and not opting for the best looking result - yay, engineering triumphs over 'the look'. The result is extremely high quality prints at the moderate speeds the printer is designed to print at. The print head is nice and narrow so you can see the nozzle from the side pretty well. My solution to faster printing is to run two printers simultaneously - I'm doing that right now. Even the cooling fan is fine for printing PLA at 50mm/sec so I don't see the need to touch the Sprite at all - I think its perfect in the context of its intended use. I'm very intrigued by your video's on high flow printing and the general buzz around printing at higher speeds using Klipper with Core XY machines on rails. But I think to explore those paths you need a different machine or dedicate your modding of a machine for one of those particular purposes - expecting one machine to fulfil all requirements is unrealistic . I also think there are technical problems with high speed printing that aren't yet fully overcome - the drawbacks of rail systems, the need for a light print head that at the moment forces you back to a bowden setup for the lightest configuration. I would like to buy an Ender 5 and play around with some of these options as I think that format of printer suits Klipper better than a bed slinger and rail conversions exist for it too. Oh and you've got a new patreon - keep up the good work and keep enjoying yourself as much as you seem to!
I actually prefer the front part, it looks pretty nice to me
To each their own!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Right!
Awesome i have thought this for some time now
Great video! The duct design is impressive, would be interesting to see how fast you could print with the increased cooling performance
I think I will have to wait until I have an Ender 5 running a klipper on a corexy Sprite hotend to really find out!
@@NathanBuildsRobots did you ever get a creality sonic pad for the S1?
@@iamdmc I got a FlSun Speeder Pad. Will be a couple weeks before I get it running. but will hve a klipper review soon
@@NathanBuildsRobots been thinking of klipperizing my S1. Most reviews show a 3x print speed improvement with no loss in quality - up to 150mm/s with good results, faster with worsening results
@@iamdmc That sounds about right. I think you do loose some quality even at the 3x mark.
Another GREAT video. I hope Creality buys your design, and pays you a million dollars plus 50% of all profits for the rest of your life.
Creality, or any company for that matter, aren't going to pay for a design that is posted for free on the internet! But they are doing a fine job of designing non-optimal products for me to make content/improvements/mods on, so it's all good.
Oh yeah.. this is a doer... Im on it now... Going to love bringing back the great panaramic print view again and not worry about the original smacking me in the head while using the magnifying glass when looking at the print nozzle doing its thang!. LOL
🤣
You got this, watching the printer do its thing is half the fun!
Great detective work! I want to join your force😁
Great video! Don't get me started about Creality....
Love em or hate em, they are a very important part of where 3D printing is today!
Did I miss where you posted your fan duct model for the reversed hot end? I would like to try it out.
hah i keep my ender backwards ! I thought i was the only one
It looks so cool!
i REALLY NEED TO DO THIS ...
Great video - I've just got into 3d printing 3 weeks ago - ender 3 s1 pro , I hope to think I am right in thinking it fine for this, meaning if I get your breakout board and print ducts etc - yes ? As I've used noctua fans for modding a ps3 and ps4 and know how good they are - I think the idea is perfect and looking forward to getting it on mine.
I could watch you apply boron nitride paste all day. ;)
I ordered 1 kg of boron nitride powder from China. Epic prank video incoming?
@@NathanBuildsRobots Or you are opening an OnlyFans featuring hot, messy hBN content. :)
@@MichaelWatersJ if u make an onlyfans, it will be dedicated to flow and pressure testing fans. Noctuas, Sunons, Deltas, etc. Only Fans.
@@NathanBuildsRobots That's weirdly accurate. Last night, I was trying to derive the idealized formula for fan speed vs. voltage since I'm running 12V fans at 24V (75% PWM duty cycle) to get more part cooling. It's absurd how much cooling you can get with a 5015 running 2x voltage.
the reversed polarity jst connectors from creality is down right evil and borderline criminal. i fried one of the fan traces on the board almost exactly as you show 24:33 but i think just one or two traces to the right of that one you show. since ive done that ive tried to search through hell and high water for a stock pcb sprite pro board but as far as i know you cant even buy just the board alone. once again, creality probably does that on purpose so you have to buy the entire extruder. which is where the criminal aspect of my rant comes in, lol. however the bright shining light in my search of the pcb is that i came across your modder board. it was like a hand given gift from an angel that pierced through the hell and high water i was stuck in and brought me back to the light. it is going to be such an excellent upgrade. thank you for what your doing for the community, we all greatly appreciate it. i just need it to be past the new year already so you can ship it to me ;]
I wish you success. appropriate amount of jokes for this video I'd say 😅
The only thing I was confused about is why you had to cut down the heat break? What am I missing. Ordered your board so I can perform this mod on my ender 3 S1
Nathan, great work! Love what you did to an already decent printer (IMHO it's good for someone who just got into 3d printing and has no experience whatsoever and just wants to print).
Will you be selling complete kits?
Also is the board green or black (I want the black one to keep design matching 🖤)?
And lastly, shipping to EU possible?
Yes to EU shipping, and new boards are Black and gold.
The 1st edition were super-matte black, which looks really good, but the new ones are regular matte black, and have less gold accents. So less blingy but still black and gold.
Right now shipping is $15-$20. I am looking for an EU distributor to bring that cost down, but it will take a couple months to set that up.
@@NathanBuildsRobots sounds awesome, mate :D
Shipping is okay-ish. Still great value anyway. Looking forward to ordering ;)
Where is the pre-order for the new board? I don't see it on the website.
It's on there as the only PCB for sale, I need to make the listing more clear. I will add some pictures!
Good video!
Thank you Sanic!
I’m assuming this shroud only works with the backwards-mounted extruder?
Correct. It could be modified to work the other way around, the f3D is available on my Patreon
I'd like to see someone wire up a small pinhole cam to an extruder then be able to view it on the screen / Sonic pad maybe. That would be awesome. No more need for a webcam or flipping extruders around. But it's gotta be 4k ;)
This will be my first mod. I got a k1 2 months ago. Just picked up an s1 to I could do this for fun.
Do you just flip it around? And that's it? Also do you have any suggestions for that trimming on the hot end you did or is it just obvious once you get to that step?
Also.. Will all this work for the regular s1 because I just picked it up at microcenter for 150 tax included and didn't wanna pass it up.
i have no idea why everyone is bothering with fan mods. This printer prints best at 50/60mm/s, maybe a tiny bit more..the 4010 fan it comes with is more than you need for that. Why would you sacrifice quality and put stress on the components, just to make a point that you CAN print faster.
I have a brand new S1 Pro that hasn't printed yet, I plan to install a Sonic Pad on it and other mods right out of the gate. Is there a version of the hotend you use that uses the stock type nozzles? I have already invested in a diamond tipped nozzle and don't want to have to change to totally different nozzles than my V2 uses.
Edit: no matter what, I'll be buying your board so I can add things easier. Kinda want a volcano hotend with a CHT. I have a CHT mk8 on the stock block. Need a second fan without splicing wires and buck converters. Lol
Original: How well does this cooling work for faster printing? I can't get the bow of my PLA benchys to print faster than 50mm/s, without at least starting to curl and grinding the nozzle on the last layer. I even put a desk fan, right up on the front of my print.
TPU.... Ugh, I gotta print at 10mm/s. 😂😢
And I have the reindeer antler part cooling fan from printables.
Starting this mod today, do you have the x,y offset for the new CR touch location by chance?
Thanks!
NBR when will the second batch be ready? can i order now or should i wait?
2nd batch is in production, should ship in 2 weeks. Any new orders, and current pre-orders will be for the 2nd edition board.
My S1 Pro's extruder just died during a print. Spins smooth by hand, locks when commanded, but wont extrude or retract. Just clunks like a motor release then nothing. Motor or driver? If I could plug in another stepper I could find out but......thanks Creality
Have you tried taking it apart to inspect it got loose filament? My discord could be of help
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yes, extruder looks and feels fine. I can manually feed filament thru it like normal. Board looks fine too. I'm stuck
@@Jynxx_13 Sounds like the motor driver burned out. I would ask Creality or whoever you bought it from for a replacement mainboard
With the air shank design, how do you set x,y offset with sonic pad/klipper? Mostly trying to figure out parameters for bed level manual/auto. It tries to level out the bl touch about an inch in front of the bed.
You have to log into the web interface and change the printer.cfg file and possibly some mesh settings. It’s not too challenging, but requires a little work
Ok I think I got it. Although it appears rotating the print head removes 30 mm of print space from the back of the build plate. At least for an e3s1pro. Going to have to mess with it more
What is that heat block you've installed???? I can tell it isn't stock. I'd love to know!!! Thanks!!!
Its in the description (affiliate link)
amzn.to/3g3ud26
I like these because they simplify everything and shrink it down in size. I don't think they are particularly fast, or better performing than the stock heater block, but its just the size/convenience that I like.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm thinking of getting the "Ender-3 S1/ S1 Pro High Flow Kit" for my S1 Pro. I have the Sonic Pad running Klipper behind it. What would you do if you were me? I'm a newer maker with 2 printers. My other is a Qidi X-max.
@@ErichHarder hi Erich, I mean no offense by this, but this exactly what Creality wants. For pople to buy upgrade kits through them, because of their silly non standard connectors. For the old Ender 3 printers, people can choose between a lot of different vendors because they all use standardized connectors. But now you have to buy upgrades from Creality, unless you invest in all of the soldiering and Crimping tools to adapt to their cable types.
That said, their kit looks OK. I would recommend a CHT nozzle to get increased flow rates. Since you already have the S1 Pro, you already have an all- metal heatbreak.
If you get their kit you will have to change your part cooling fan since the new hotend is longer.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I appreciate this. I already planned on changing my fan to a 5015 fan because having the Sonic Pad and Klipper seems to almost require it because of the higher speeds and hotter temps that I generally run due to those higher speeds. I have plenty of tools and am willing to do some modding if it means I can basically get off the teat of Creality. So you think a CHT nozzle would be a good bet??
@@ErichHarder yes, all the way.
www.nathanbuildsrobots.com/testing/ender3s1
You should almost just buy a cam bus run fuor wires and be done with it 😅
That is a good idea. I would like to. It's Klipper a necessity for that setup?
@@NathanBuildsRobotsI think so That's the only way I know how to do it anyway so lol sorry I didn't respond earlier RUclips notifications suck
so many people are obsessed with the ender 3s1
Question. By moving the hotend towards the front I'm assuming you won't be able to utilize the full build plate? Wouldn't it move all the prints further forward and not be able to print towards the back of it?
I was wondering this too.
I don't. have one of these, but could you not just turn the gantry around
Thats a good idea, just install the whole upper part of the machine "backwards". It would require some changes to make it work, 100% but shouldnt be that hard!
Good, Video thank you.
Listen all y'all it's a Sabotage!! But seriously, great video!
I have two noctua 4020 from the previous design, is it possible to make one thay works for that?
also, if using the factory heat block would this need modification?
The wires for the factory heat block are super short, so it's hard to make it work.
There might be a way to use 4020 fans. I would start from scratch with a new design instead of adapting this one
ok, im in ^^ lets bash crealty while owning at least one ^^
Its the printer I love to hate
Hi I have an ender 3 s1 and I connected a fan to it and it gave off a burnt smell and now the fan doesn't work I tried to change the fan I tried the motherboard in the extruder and it still doesn't work I would be happy if you could tell me if you know what the problem could be
Would this work for the 3s1 pro as well?
Yes
Can you use PLA as a Printhead adapter? I would like to turn mine to the side for reasons.
This works with stock board ?
This concept could be adapted to work with a stock breakout board. It would just require a some more wiring and some changes to the 3d printed parts.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Ok, because you're board is a little over $60 for me in Sweden 😭
@@Torskel do you know of any 3d printer companies that would be a reseller for this board for EU? I have heard of 3djake, but I don't but things over there so I don't know the vendors
what is that jumper like thingy you tested on the stock breakout board? Mine got ripped (already ordered your board)
Not sure which component you are referring to, there are a bunch of connectors, mostly they are picoblade connectors
So how did you put the hot end fan in?
How can i obtain the fan hotend stl
Its on my Patreon for $1
www.patreon.com/posts/74506963
@@NathanBuildsRobots would this hotend fan work on the stock hotend ? And not reversed ?
@@JustCreateYou It could be adapted to the stock hotend, stock side forward. I may do that when I have some time to do CAD. It would require some changes, but the main idea could be maintained.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I would def be looking forward to that!
@@JustCreateYou the f3d files is in Patreon too, if you wanted to try the changes yourself
I was thinking of building a fan duct using copper brake pipes and a manifold to direct the air close and directly to the printed filament as it lays down, can anyone think of any reason this might not work or any problems that might be encountered in this endeavour?
Has been done a lot of times, usually in combination with a c-pap blower. It’s more commonly known as a berd air system.
Andrew... You can't just open a thermodynamic can of worms like that! This will take 30 minutes to answer correctly, so I will yield to callardo1's answer.
There are a few clips of such a system in my ERRF video. Main downside is they are loud as heck!
@@NathanBuildsRobots The sound wont bother me as my printers are in my workshop which is freezing in winter and too hot in summer it wasnt so bad until the energy prices went high north as I could afford to heat or cool it, I watch the first layer going down and then retreat to the comfort of the house or in summer the garden and keep an eye on them over the network
So you complain that creality locks you in.
On the other hand you sell the modderboard and put the project files behind the Patreon paywall.
And it worked with me. I bought the board and became a patreon.
Still, same thing, wouldn't you say?
That’s the price of convenience :P
Though with the modder boards, most people don’t go down the upgrade path I intended. It’s not locked down at all, you can plug whatever into it.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yeah, I think I will though. I like to see what I'm printing.
I'm also sure that I will be plugging in some other stuff into the modderboard :)
Finally someone confirming that the S1 is basically an overpriced bad design. Creality started off great with the simplicity of the Ender3, but went only downhill the past years...
I think the pricing for the sprite is quite good... You can find it for $40-$60 on sale for the extruder, stepper motor, and hotend. That's quite a competitive price, and the extruder goes fast! Depending on the nozzle, it maxes out between 16mm^3/s-75mm^3/s - nothing to scoff at! That is premium performance in terms of extrusion speed.
BUT where they get it wrong is the incompatibility issues that require you to buy a full $110 kit with new wires, breakout board, plus another $30 for a CR-Touch, etc. It just feels like you're getting nickle and dimed to get the full setup that actually works.
If it just used all the old connectors, like the ones every other printer on the market uses, and the option to run a traditional wiring harness down the mainboard, I would absolutely recommend it as the best deals out there.
@@NathanBuildsRobots But with leaving out the fancy proprietary stuff it could have been better and cheaper. And that goes for a lot on that printer.
@@MisterkeTube is kind of a testament to their old ender 3 design that companies are still copying it to this day!
what hotend is being used?
Now that the good looking side is facing forward, all you have to do is make it look good. Clean up the rats nest of cables and use a matte filament, like hatchboxes magic stone or something. And I suppose the modder board doesn't need to be on the extruder so extend the hell out of the rest of those cables and run them along the ribbon to inside the printer. Modder board uggo bro. One of the main charms of the sprite hotend was it's form factor and extreme density. And you just went and splayed it all out like a hooker on PCP. You tried taking a few steps forward but stumbled backwards and landed on your ass with this attempt at making it look better bud.
I'll work on it later. 3D printers are uggo in general unless fully enclosed
@@NathanBuildsRobots can't hate what ya can't see... True
HaHa. Love it!
😂👍🏻
BLTOUCH lol. Should make a comparison video of BLTouch on a Ender 3 S1 Pro and also the 3DTouch. Don't you just love how the Chinese rip off patented technology and call it their own? I think it's just crazy how on their websites they'll tout the fact that they have patents because it's really easy for them to take someone else's patented tech and patent it in China. It's like hey look. Here's our open source 3D printer, but it's patented by us in China. Take that Western world!
Well, there is no global system for patents, so it sounds fair to me!
I believe in the US, the patent rights belong to the inventor to create something, not the first US inventor to create it. So if a foreign inventor comes up with something, I don't think someone can patent it just because it hasn't been filed in the US yet.
I don't know anything about Chinese patent law (sounds lilke an oxymoron to me)
la mera neta se mira fea y no veo la mejora mas que puedes ver sin pedos