I think it'd be cool to have multiple Game Knights episodes on these decks. One for sure with the decks right out of the box, with face commanders, to see how well they play against each other. Then another with whichever commander they want to use, and with the deck tuned up. And I mean more tuned than these $25 builds, I'm talking normal Game Knights builds. So we could see each deck at full potential.
I imagine the main thing holding something like this back is simply the logistics of it. There’s already an INSANE amount of work and production time that goes into just the 1 episode of Game Knights.
Mikaeus the Unhallowed might be interesting... the face-down creatures have no types, which means they gain the +1/+1 boost and undying from Mikaeus, and should they die, they return face-up. It also synergizes with Volrath, who can either copy the returned creatures or remove their counters so that they can come back from the dead once more (if they aren't human, of course).
True but dying isn't being "turned face up" so you wouldn't be getting morph triggers from those creatures. Mikaeus' effect is inherently powerful, though, no denying that.
Cards to add: Leyline of Anticipation Vivien, Champion of the Wilds Alchemist's Refuge Primordial Mist Whisperwood Elemental Ugin, the Ineffable Jeskai Infiltrator Words of Wind Temur War Shaman Wilderness Reclamation
Cards to remove: Rayami, First of the Fallen Grismold, the Dreadsower Pendant of Prosperity Voice of Many Bounty of the Luxa Mire in Misery Thought Sponge Explore Scaretiller Tezzeret's Gambit
Josh and Jimmy are the masters at what they do! You’ve inspired me to start my own RUclips channel, giving my advice to new commander players. Keep up the great work!
On the whole reprint thing: the total value is a good point BUT we need reprints of cards that don't see prints *anywhere else* like command beacon. We just need cards like that every year.
Yeah it's not really so much a problem with the precons. The problem is that this is really the only commander-focused product that exists, and that the staples are escalating in value WAY faster than the occasional appearance in a masters set (now canceled?!) can undo. It's pretty transparent that they want us to all shift to brawl so we'll get on the "buying standard expansion boosters" money treadmill, but the harder they try to push that greedy, inorganic format, the more stubbornly I will resist it.
That synergy is a bit rude, so I would caution putting the brine elemental with vesuvan shapeshifter unless your playgroup doesn’t have problems with it and you are okay with being the one to lock down your playgroup.
@@Kazz1187 it's just the only clear way I can see you closing out a game with this deck. You get a lot of value but not a ton of clear win cons. Also, most people just scoop when the combo hits so it's not like you're wasting their time.
Dubi264 this deck is all drawing card value and no way to close the game. It’s a super casual deck. Anyone with a tuned deck will most likely smoke this deck esp if they run tutors
Pendant of prosperity is broken if you can steal it back from the player you give it to. It let's you take for 2, and the effect happens to you twice. So you can draw and ramp twice per turn, and twice every turn if you have seedborn muse out.
Josh Lee Kwai and Jimmy Wong you Rock and thank you for the really fun videos and the podcast. I myself have played magic for 2 years now and I'm almost done brewing my Ruric Thar Deck and Kadena Deck and thank you for the sultai commander precon and now I know how to properly upgrade my sultai deck
I would like to agree with what yoy guys said about reprints, but this set isn't a limited print run, it's PRINT TO DEMAND. If you run out of it, just print more. The problem with examples of atraxa and jeleva, is that they had an excessive amount of value compared to the other decks. You're probably gonna see something similar this year because of dockside extortionist in the jeskai one. Lets just hope they print it into the ground. Also, the card won't stay 15-20 after it gets printed into these commander decks, so its not like people can just buy it out and sell the high value card forever.
Exactly. I understand the cost to print to demand a set cause some decks do not sell as well but store like Walmart get the overflow where lgs can drop the price to encourage sales. I disagree with the $20 reprint statement cause the reprint is not going to be $20 especially for commander only reprints. Example us phyrexian tower. Besides one tier 2 deck in legacy, edh was the only place it saw play now it's a $65 card sitting at $15.
not reprinting good card because people might horde it makes no logical sense..... Even if people horde it, a large percentage of it are still sold to the public, to the people that want them. Sure that deck will probably be worth more, but that is still infinitely better than not reprinting it, where there will be 0 new copy of the card. If no one complain about the value of the deck, then WOTC will print a new commander 2018 every year. We saw an improvement this year because people complained last year. You guys can fan boy WOTC, card kingdom, ultra pro, all you want, it makes sense considering they sponsor you. But don't turn it into propaganda for the new players that might blindly follow everything you guys say. People should complain, that's how we get better product.
I think a big thing here that is ignores is the fact that there are not enough morphs in the deck to exploit Kadena's first ability. Nineteen is not enough to get a reliable engine going. That is why the first thing I'm gonna do is add more morphs. Weaver of lies, Brine Elemental and Unblinking Bleb are probebly my first choices. Dream Chisel and Obscuring Aether both reduce the cost on your morphs, so they should be auto includes.
Bring back Commander Arsenal, in the style of Spellbooks. A product which would include 15-20 reprints, 10-30 dollar range and have one foil or alternate art.
I think we need to accept that WotC caught lightning in a bottle with C16 but we're probably not seeing that good of a product again. C19 looks like the best product they've printed ignoring C16, which is a good thing, but we keep comparing everything to the monster that was C16.
Few things i notice most lists have: Wizard 'counterspell' package with morphs, mostly led by voidmage prodigy and sometimes patron wizard. Often accompanied by riptide laboratory. Equilibrium/words of wind/cloudstone curio/tidespout tyrant/crystal shard effects to rebuy morphs (and possibly abuse opponents) Flash outlets to do the above at instant speed cheating on morphing creatures, so that mana can be focused on flipping them (dream chisel, semblance anvil, ugin,cloud key, obscuring aether etc)
Mire of Misery has me all excited, especially since Gavin Verhey said that they are experimenting to give black enchantment removal in general (very powered down like mire) as a Grixis player I am all over this :D
i also picked up Winding Canyons as a flash source, it's soo important in this deck! The orrerry is on my 'to buy' list as well, but.... buget :/ However i'd say Winding Canyons is another hugely important card to add! in the same light Emergence zone is big as well. Sure it sacs itself, but can give that flash in a pinch. Solid card to add.
i think people are missing the point here you draw a card for every morph you get a 3 mana discount once each turn you pay 2 to get an extra turn why even bother? just play a land that actually generates colored mana and a second morph on your own turn! now thats a much more outstanding play
Guys, I wanted to say thank you for the great vid. I really enjoyed the small things like recapping the suggested cards in reversed order for example. Great content!
I played against a Rayami deck, the key card is Harbinger of spring which makes Rayami pro non spirits. Making it incredible hard to deal with and nearly unblock able
The only good use I see for Pendant of Prosperity is if I can steal it back with Dack Fayden or something... because then I get to draw two cards and put two lands on the field for just two mana. EDIT: also, Aminatou. Damn, this is AWESOME on her. You cast the Pendant, flicker it back under YOUR control, and the opponent might even be inclined to activate it in response to get something out of it, giving you even more goodies.
Hey @JLK and Jimmy, the date today is 07/27/2020. Yesterday, I paid $20 for this deck in its sealed package, and you're saying they printed this with (at the time) $97 worth of reprints.... This is amazing value. When I first saw your Game Knights episode where Prof played this deck, I wanted to buy this deck! Thanks for the tips on upgrades!
Surprised they didnt mention "weaver of lies", a tad high in mana cost but it allows you to refresh you morphs like an ixidron but you get to choose what yu flip and it only hits your morphs leaving your commander on line. And it has morph by itself as well
1 Leyline of Anticipation 1 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds 1 Alchemist's Refuge 1 Primordial Mist 1 Whisperwood Elemental 1 Ugin, the Ineffable 1 Jeskai Infiltrator 1 Words of Wind 1 Temur War Shaman 1 Wilderness Reclamation
On the topic of more valuable reprints, y'all brought up that they don't do it because then the finance folks come and scoop 'em all up and just sit on them for the value. My question there is, why not just print it in to the ground then? Ya know what finance folks hate? Reprints. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2018 decks were print to demand, right? And I assume these ones are as well? So they can just REPRINT if the need is there. Unless there's something I'm missing, I just don't think that's a real issue in regards to the more valuable reprint problem.
19:45 To be honest, at this point I think we need a product specifically geared towards commander were they put in much needed reprints for EDH. Jusst give the Commander's Arsenal a revisit! Choose between 15-20 cards, maybe 5 of them high value, 5 mid value and 5 who have recently shot up in price and keep printing to demand for like one year until the next in the series comes out. That way you would discourage investors to hoard it as well since it would be a non-limited product. Maybe if 15 reprints would be too many - although I don''t think they would - throw in highly played commander cards or even popular commanders. I think there would be room and there is a dire need for a prodcut like that.
I love Rayami, the vorthos side of me loves seeing Hagra in the background and I believe it was the first vampire corrupted by weakening the Hedrons hold the Eldrazi titans.
Awesome quick make-up, thanks Josh and Jimmy. I would put Vernal Equinox and Awakening for a fair, synergistic, speed-up-game experience. Kudos from Southern France.
Josh, I feel you on the family naming convention. My family all, Mom, Dad, myself, a sister, and a brother, all have first names that start with "K" Glad I'm not the only one.
This video is perfect for me, I'm getting back into Magic with this deck so having some suggested upgrades with what to take out aswell is very helpful, thank you! Looking forward to the Game Knights episode with all of the decks in action :)
I have the Kadena deck and I like it overall. I have some good plays with Grismold and so I was kind of shocked you guys recommended removing it. I was able to grow my Grismold pretty quickly especially utilizing Volrath as a copy of Grismold. Give my opponents a token then have Volrath kill one on my next turn. Then Grismold and Volrath both grow by 1. Great video though, going to try and aquire as many of the cards I don't have see how it goes with my group.
That justification from Wizards makes sense and certainly makes me feel a bit better about some cards (like Sensei’s) not being reprinted. With that said, I’d like to see Wizards then work on reprinting or even make some additional sets (not intended for beginners like commander yearly decks) that contain these commander staples.
Hold up. The argument against $20 reprints is that people would buy it too much, and hoard it? This is a printed product, is there an ink and cardboard shortage that prevents them printing more to meet that demand? That makes no sense at all.
Great edits to start with. I’m also looking for cards with activated abilities that you can sink mana into when you can’t flash stuff out. That way you can hold up mana and not waste your turn if you don’t end up using your morphs.
I just recently built Yarok, so I'm a little hesitant to build Sultai morphs as it would break my one-deck-per-color-combo rule, but she just looks so fun to play! Plus I already have Animorphs. Kadena is kind of quicker because you can throw down a free morph as soon as she comes out, but will only do that once per turn, but also brings value. Animar has to build up to three counters but then you can morph literally everything for free. More explosive, but you need more pieces to keep him going.
One thing that I have been considering on this note is creating "kits" for decks. I've been building towards Muldrotha, the Gravetide as a reanimator general, but sometimes I want to play Sultai but someone else is playing Muldrotha. If you aren't going super in depth for flavor, and the land base doesnt change much, I'd recommend having a 40-ish card sideboard that changes Yarok to like Kadena. Gives you more bang for your buck and allows you to have a wider breadth of decks.
Because it's a lot more complicated than going down the hall and pressing a big "print C19" button. Printing takes resources, the most important one being time. Wizards had to outsource to a printer that has finite machines with which to pump out cards. At some point they need to dedicate those resources to ensuring that there will be enough available for other products. It's just not realistic to think they can easily match demand if it's much more than they project.
Also, I think Wizards doesn't want what happened to Dragon's Maze, BFZ, and Conspiracy 2 when these products were printed to oblivion and the value of the boxes bottomed out immediately and many fans hated them for it at the time. There was too much product in circulation than the demand.
@@vantain20 BFZ and Dragon's Maze were garbage sets, that's why they bottomed out. Conspiracy 2 is what we want from WotC, cheap out of the gate but packed with long-term value in reprints AND new cards. That's what makes the Magic economy work.
The reprint argument goes out the window as soon as you realize you can get them at every walmart/target etc. Yes people can hoard them etc, but you will always be able to get them at msrp, where as masters sets etc dont have that same luxury. That being said I am extremely happy with this years decks
What Wizards Says: "Guys we cant reprint high end cards in these decks because then it will be impossible for people who want to play with the product to find it!" WoTC can literally print as many copies of these decks as demand will ask for, thats not a good excuse. What Wizards actually MEANS: "We cant reprint high value cards because the invester market will fall out and although we will never admit it, that would effect our bottom line, and we cant have that."
@@seanmachlan3282 What is reasonable? Wizards' excuse to not put more value in these decks? It isn't, because they control how many of them they're going to print. So if they simply doubled it in anticipation of the secondary market buying them up then it instantly kill any profiteering these hoarders might benefit from while simultaneously making the product more accessible to find/buy.
@@matthewcarroll2533 It is reasonable for a company to manage supply as they deem necessary to maintain value/demand, in an effort to maintain profits.
@@seanmachlan3282 Yeah exactly, and if you put high dollar reprints in a commander product the demand is going to naturally be very high. So, if the demand is very high, you're going to print many, many more of said product in order to meet the demand and in doing so, generate more sales. More sales means more profit and having a much larger print run also means more accessibility for the people wanting to get the product. Thus, I'm not really seeing any downside to putting in better reprints in these decks when, at the end of the day, they control the supply and the demand will always exist. Hell, it'll even be more demand with higher value reprints.
Wow guys, the deck as a built-in combo that you forgot to talk about. Brine Elemental and Vesuvan Shapeshifter is actually perma-stax on opponents' lands. I don't know if this is the first time a pre-con has that kind of game-breaking combo out of the box, but I believe it was worth mentioning.
45:38 I feel like this is exactly the type of deck where explore is good? If you're drawing a bunch of cards - which seems likely with this deck - you might end up with 2-3 lands in your hand. In that scenario rampant growth is just another ramp card that gets a land onto the battlefield, whereas explore does that while cantripping. Sure there are cases early game where explore is worse, but I think the upside for explore is there in the mid-late game.
Going to take the Pendant out of my precon and add it to Zedruu. Now I get a free card and life each upkeep even if they never activate it! Also I'm surprised you guys didn't mention Qarsi Deciever. Tap it to add a colorless to pay for Morph, cast face down cards, and turn cards face up. Maybe because it the commander has a good enough discount?
The issue I have with this morph thing, is what’s the win con? Is it simply overrun or triumph if the hoardes , or do the pickles infinite lockout? Which I’m surprised you didn’t mention . Brine elemental combos with vesuvian shapeshifter
Scroll of mystery can also allow you to manifest a morph card with a higher morph cost than casting cost you can have use it to have a cheap morph effect.
My gut reaction with Pendant of Prosperity was to blink it with something like Aminatou to get it back, but then I realized it triggers every time it EtBs, so there goes that plan. On a somehow related note, if you're going to play the deck out of the box, keep in mind that Rayami and Thought Sponge work against one another, which is another good reason to remove either/both, I guess.
I guess, you could use volrath as one of the 99 and when you play it and get to combat-step, you could put a - 1/-1 counter on kadena, Pay 1 and play 2 morphs for free and draw 2 cards?
I love videos like these because of how much they help me. At the same time, I hate videos like these because they make the price of all these cards rise.
I don't know about you guys but for me (been playing EDH for 4-ish years now, not new but not old), the thing with the reprints is that if they just won't print even just the $15-20ish staples, the format then just gets progressively more expensive over time and I think its going faster now with how big EDH is. It's depressing how a casual, non-competitive format is getting to modern-level prices with each set release. Sure, the decks this year may have $90 in reprint value but I believe reprints now should be about keeping the prices of a CASUAL format down rather than the value.
They may have 90$ in reprint value before they got revealed but they surely are way below that now. Also the € reprint value is probably at about 20-30€ prices in the US are just insane. I fully agree that they should reprint stuff like teferis protection, parallel lives (or one of the other similar ones), cyclonic rift and other stuff. They are super good cards but the biggest problem of them is that they don't get reprinted.
I actually really really like Explore (the card) just because its floor is just cycling a card, which you can't do with rampant growth and co. At the beginning of the game, it does a comparable job of ramping (just probably not fixing). Plus I'm terrible making reasonable curves in my decks so having a 2 mana ramp/draw piece that I like a lot is pretty handy for me. I also just love playing lots of lands.
I am very excited about this years Commander decks. I going to start with purchasing B/R and Jeskai, more or less for K'rrick and Elsha, plus its just good to have all these reprints.
the jeskai one feels so meh though. They put two different cards that wanted cmc 3 or less permanents in your graveyard, and there's not even 10 targets, and those permanents have no impact on your gameplan. I think it was a pretty mediocre build compared to the others
So do the morph flips count as etb effects? I’m new to commander and haven’t played in a format where morph is around. This deck looks awesome and am curious to see if Yarok, the Desecrated would work with it
The pendant can be fun in the right deck. Karn from War. And Beguiler of wills to take it back then it becomes tap 2 tap it. Growth spiral. Then growth spiral again.
print enough product to deal with hoarders and gougers? It will drop the value of the card, however, it will open up availability for new players and players who want certain cards as well.
I think it'd be cool to have multiple Game Knights episodes on these decks. One for sure with the decks right out of the box, with face commanders, to see how well they play against each other.
Then another with whichever commander they want to use, and with the deck tuned up. And I mean more tuned than these $25 builds, I'm talking normal Game Knights builds. So we could see each deck at full potential.
Agreed
I hope Jimmy and Josh see your comment because it is a really good idea 😊
I imagine the main thing holding something like this back is simply the logistics of it. There’s already an INSANE amount of work and production time that goes into just the 1 episode of Game Knights.
great idea
The first card they talk about adding is Veldalken Orrery. Yup, I'm in the right place.
Expected when the main commander says "the first creature spell you cast each turn".
@@DarkEinherjar also expected when they add the card to literally every deck they talk about
Well, to be honest, this is one of tne decks that orrery is actually synergetic
Wouldn’t be an episode of commandzone JLK without him mentioning vedalken orrery
Why not? No matter what your deck is about, being able to cast all of your spells at instant speed makes it automatically better.
Mikaeus the Unhallowed might be interesting... the face-down creatures have no types, which means they gain the +1/+1 boost and undying from Mikaeus, and should they die, they return face-up. It also synergizes with Volrath, who can either copy the returned creatures or remove their counters so that they can come back from the dead once more (if they aren't human, of course).
True but dying isn't being "turned face up" so you wouldn't be getting morph triggers from those creatures. Mikaeus' effect is inherently powerful, though, no denying that.
Man, I'm gonna need that.
Topic starts at 4:09!
Take that upvote, you deserved it!
bless you
Bless ya' xoxo
Not all heroes wear capes.
They've sold out
It's Sultai so I'm definitely going to add villainous wealth to the deck as it's one of my favourite cards
Not including Villainous Wealth in a Sultai deck is like not putting ramp in a green deck.
The new enchantment that steals a graveyard is soooooo good.
@@BloodLegaZ Hedonist's Trove is a reprint, I believe, but yep, it's fun as hell. XD
Consider "Dead Man's Chest" too on the beefiest boy on the battlefield. Best 2 Mana draw spell their is.
Villainous wealth is really good... Especially when you can cast it for X=20 or more, multiple times per turn.
clearly volrath is craig's newest infect commander
Mine too😂
Upgrades start at 23:35
Thank you kind sir
Thank you so much >.
Cards to add:
Leyline of Anticipation
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
Alchemist's Refuge
Primordial Mist
Whisperwood Elemental
Ugin, the Ineffable
Jeskai Infiltrator
Words of Wind
Temur War Shaman
Wilderness Reclamation
Cards to remove:
Rayami, First of the Fallen
Grismold, the Dreadsower
Pendant of Prosperity
Voice of Many
Bounty of the Luxa
Mire in Misery
Thought Sponge
Explore
Scaretiller
Tezzeret's Gambit
@@Eital2 you the real MVP. Thanks to you and OP.
I hope wizards releases some new morphs in upcoming sets. Would love more options
I love Jimmy's shirt. Princess Mononoke is one of my favorites.
Michael Woodyard agreed
You should invite the commanders quarters to Game Night
budget game knights ? lol
Fetch for a Bayou
Josh and Jimmy are the masters at what they do! You’ve inspired me to start my own RUclips channel, giving my advice to new commander players. Keep up the great work!
Nice channel!
Good luck
chase mckinney Thanks! I’m really confident with the message I’m putting out there!
I love the deluge of content. I hope everyone at The Command Zone is able to handle the elevated work rate. Know that we appreciate it.
Write the list in the description
ins / outs
On the whole reprint thing: the total value is a good point BUT we need reprints of cards that don't see prints *anywhere else* like command beacon. We just need cards like that every year.
Yeah it's not really so much a problem with the precons. The problem is that this is really the only commander-focused product that exists, and that the staples are escalating in value WAY faster than the occasional appearance in a masters set (now canceled?!) can undo.
It's pretty transparent that they want us to all shift to brawl so we'll get on the "buying standard expansion boosters" money treadmill, but the harder they try to push that greedy, inorganic format, the more stubbornly I will resist it.
One cool card I think is a must in the deck would be brine elemental. That card with vesuvan shapeshifter means opponents never get an untap step
Tynamo1292 that was my first thought too with this deck
Isn't it one opponent doesn't untap?
That synergy is a bit rude, so I would caution putting the brine elemental with vesuvan shapeshifter unless your playgroup doesn’t have problems with it and you are okay with being the one to lock down your playgroup.
@@Kazz1187 it's just the only clear way I can see you closing out a game with this deck. You get a lot of value but not a ton of clear win cons. Also, most people just scoop when the combo hits so it's not like you're wasting their time.
Dubi264 this deck is all drawing card value and no way to close the game. It’s a super casual deck. Anyone with a tuned deck will most likely smoke this deck esp if they run tutors
Game knights with commanders quarters when?
A game knight with quarter pennies commander decks
Hope this happens!
I think it would be awesome to have the Commander Quarters on a game knight!
Pendant of prosperity is broken if you can steal it back from the player you give it to. It let's you take for 2, and the effect happens to you twice. So you can draw and ramp twice per turn, and twice every turn if you have seedborn muse out.
Josh Lee Kwai and Jimmy Wong you Rock and thank you for the really fun videos and the podcast. I myself have played magic for 2 years now and I'm almost done brewing my Ruric Thar Deck and Kadena Deck and thank you for the sultai commander precon and now I know how to properly upgrade my sultai deck
I would like to agree with what yoy guys said about reprints, but this set isn't a limited print run, it's PRINT TO DEMAND. If you run out of it, just print more. The problem with examples of atraxa and jeleva, is that they had an excessive amount of value compared to the other decks. You're probably gonna see something similar this year because of dockside extortionist in the jeskai one. Lets just hope they print it into the ground. Also, the card won't stay 15-20 after it gets printed into these commander decks, so its not like people can just buy it out and sell the high value card forever.
Exactly. I understand the cost to print to demand a set cause some decks do not sell as well but store like Walmart get the overflow where lgs can drop the price to encourage sales. I disagree with the $20 reprint statement cause the reprint is not going to be $20 especially for commander only reprints. Example us phyrexian tower. Besides one tier 2 deck in legacy, edh was the only place it saw play now it's a $65 card sitting at $15.
Omg legit just finished watching the video game high school series and Jimmy you are amazing at acting good freaking job dude
not reprinting good card because people might horde it makes no logical sense..... Even if people horde it, a large percentage of it are still sold to the public, to the people that want them. Sure that deck will probably be worth more, but that is still infinitely better than not reprinting it, where there will be 0 new copy of the card. If no one complain about the value of the deck, then WOTC will print a new commander 2018 every year. We saw an improvement this year because people complained last year. You guys can fan boy WOTC, card kingdom, ultra pro, all you want, it makes sense considering they sponsor you. But don't turn it into propaganda for the new players that might blindly follow everything you guys say. People should complain, that's how we get better product.
amen!
The Secondary Market deserves to crash.
20:39 How about an increase in circulation, then, if that's Wizards' argument?
I think a big thing here that is ignores is the fact that there are not enough morphs in the deck to exploit Kadena's first ability. Nineteen is not enough to get a reliable engine going.
That is why the first thing I'm gonna do is add more morphs. Weaver of lies, Brine Elemental and Unblinking Bleb are probebly my first choices.
Dream Chisel and Obscuring Aether both reduce the cost on your morphs, so they should be auto includes.
Well josh, I didnt even know vedalken orrery existed before you.
What about a code that makes Lifelinker not be such a massive battery drain?
You may try to dim the display as the major part of battery drain is the display being on all the time. Hope it will help :)
I think they should make commander masters where they reprint all the great commander staples.
Bring back Commander Arsenal, in the style of Spellbooks. A product which would include 15-20 reprints, 10-30 dollar range and have one foil or alternate art.
It will be difficult because booster sets are made with draft in mind
@@nik700 Battlebond was practically a mini commander masters
@@themoakman Yes, but it also had new cards. A master set (all reprints) for a format where color identity is a thing is tricky.
@@nik700 Commander draft could be fun
When I hear "Commander products were better before" I think about how horrible Oloro and Jeleva were out of the box
THANK YOU! Seriously, I went back and looked at the old lists and I don't know what nostalgia wine these folks are drinking.
To be fair, I almost exclusively see people reference c16 and c17, which I think are both still better than c19.
I think we need to accept that WotC caught lightning in a bottle with C16 but we're probably not seeing that good of a product again. C19 looks like the best product they've printed ignoring C16, which is a good thing, but we keep comparing everything to the monster that was C16.
@@richarddilkes328 exactly. I have to explain this every year to my playgroup it's disappointing
Commander 16 with the partners too was just nutty. I don’t think it’s fair that people just compare the other products to commander 16
Few things i notice most lists have:
Wizard 'counterspell' package with morphs, mostly led by voidmage prodigy and sometimes patron wizard. Often accompanied by riptide laboratory.
Equilibrium/words of wind/cloudstone curio/tidespout tyrant/crystal shard effects to rebuy morphs (and possibly abuse opponents)
Flash outlets to do the above at instant speed
cheating on morphing creatures, so that mana can be focused on flipping them (dream chisel, semblance anvil, ugin,cloud key, obscuring aether etc)
Mire of Misery has me all excited, especially since Gavin Verhey said that they are experimenting to give black enchantment removal in general (very powered down like mire) as a Grixis player I am all over this :D
i also picked up Winding Canyons as a flash source, it's soo important in this deck! The orrerry is on my 'to buy' list as well, but.... buget :/ However i'd say Winding Canyons is another hugely important card to add! in the same light Emergence zone is big as well. Sure it sacs itself, but can give that flash in a pinch. Solid card to add.
Yes! Winding canyons, alchemist refuge, emergence zone, etc. flashing is so gooooddddd
Creature teferi and flash vivian
Teferi, mage of zhalfir is also a cheaper option
i think people are missing the point here
you draw a card for every morph
you get a 3 mana discount once each turn
you pay 2 to get an extra turn
why even bother? just play a land that actually generates colored mana and a second morph on your own turn!
now thats a much more outstanding play
What if there were card sleeves that were morphs on the back?
Or tokens
I have some I am custom ordering from Inked Gaming
I didnt know they still did custom sleeves.
I had the order from a while ago but there is also a group called lightningstoreonline that does a pretty good job with them as well
Mighty Morphin Power Ranger backs>>>
Jimmy, your shirt!!!! The Forest and all its spirits thank you for your patronage.
Guys, I wanted to say thank you for the great vid. I really enjoyed the small things like recapping the suggested cards in reversed order for example. Great content!
I played against a Rayami deck, the key card is Harbinger of spring which makes Rayami pro non spirits. Making it incredible hard to deal with and nearly unblock able
The only good use I see for Pendant of Prosperity is if I can steal it back with Dack Fayden or something... because then I get to draw two cards and put two lands on the field for just two mana.
EDIT: also, Aminatou. Damn, this is AWESOME on her. You cast the Pendant, flicker it back under YOUR control, and the opponent might even be inclined to activate it in response to get something out of it, giving you even more goodies.
Dude 2 mana put a land in play and draw a card is worth playing even without Dack Fayden
Not when your opponent decides when you get it, and they get it too.
Nvm I saw the card. I thought it did something way different so that’s a fair take
Role Reversal, Puca's Mischief, Shrewd Negotiation, Memnarch, etc.... This card could be nuts in a theft themed deck.
Yeah I thought it did something way different. That card sucks. @@DarkEinherjar
Hey @JLK and Jimmy, the date today is 07/27/2020. Yesterday, I paid $20 for this deck in its sealed package, and you're saying they printed this with (at the time) $97 worth of reprints.... This is amazing value. When I first saw your Game Knights episode where Prof played this deck, I wanted to buy this deck! Thanks for the tips on upgrades!
Aphetto Runecaster and Ixidor. Don't sleep on those old morphs
Doubt anybody's sleeping on that bro. Unless they were a noob like me
Ixidor already went from $1 to about $10 once this deck was revealed. Dream Chisel is about the same now too. a
Honestly, Guardian Project is better than Aphetto Runecaster.
Sheriff K not here, since morph creatures have no name when facedown
@@joshnelson8125 Wrong, Guardian Project only checks if they SHARE a name, and since they have no name, they never share one. ;P
Jimmy's shirt is amazing! Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite films.
Surprised they didnt mention "weaver of lies", a tad high in mana cost but it allows you to refresh you morphs like an ixidron but you get to choose what yu flip and it only hits your morphs leaving your commander on line. And it has morph by itself as well
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Primordial Mist
1 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Jeskai Infiltrator
1 Words of Wind
1 Temur War Shaman
1 Wilderness Reclamation
On the topic of more valuable reprints, y'all brought up that they don't do it because then the finance folks come and scoop 'em all up and just sit on them for the value. My question there is, why not just print it in to the ground then? Ya know what finance folks hate? Reprints. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2018 decks were print to demand, right? And I assume these ones are as well? So they can just REPRINT if the need is there.
Unless there's something I'm missing, I just don't think that's a real issue in regards to the more valuable reprint problem.
19:45 To be honest, at this point I think we need a product specifically geared towards commander were they put in much needed reprints for EDH. Jusst give the Commander's Arsenal a revisit! Choose between 15-20 cards, maybe 5 of them high value, 5 mid value and 5 who have recently shot up in price and keep printing to demand for like one year until the next in the series comes out. That way you would discourage investors to hoard it as well since it would be a non-limited product. Maybe if 15 reprints would be too many - although I don''t think they would - throw in highly played commander cards or even popular commanders.
I think there would be room and there is a dire need for a prodcut like that.
48:33 to 50:16... loved how the deck on the table briefly changed from Kadena to Anje... 👌🏼😂
I love Rayami, the vorthos side of me loves seeing Hagra in the background and I believe it was the first vampire corrupted by weakening the Hedrons hold the Eldrazi titans.
This is definitely my favorite deck in the cycle, although madness is a close second
Gavin Kelsey same though!
Awesome quick make-up, thanks Josh and Jimmy. I would put Vernal Equinox and Awakening for a fair, synergistic, speed-up-game experience. Kudos from Southern France.
I wish there was suggestions outside the budget...I really would like to see the best version of this deck that you guys can come up with
Josh, I feel you on the family naming convention. My family all, Mom, Dad, myself, a sister, and a brother, all have first names that start with "K" Glad I'm not the only one.
This video is perfect for me, I'm getting back into Magic with this deck so having some suggested upgrades with what to take out aswell is very helpful, thank you! Looking forward to the Game Knights episode with all of the decks in action :)
Something that I think would be good for these videos would be to include 4-5 non-budget upgrades.
Ugin turns our colorless bears into 1 mana bears and that sounds just great
I have the Kadena deck and I like it overall. I have some good plays with Grismold and so I was kind of shocked you guys recommended removing it. I was able to grow my Grismold pretty quickly especially utilizing Volrath as a copy of Grismold. Give my opponents a token then have Volrath kill one on my next turn. Then Grismold and Volrath both grow by 1. Great video though, going to try and aquire as many of the cards I don't have see how it goes with my group.
If you put an Elesh Norn into the new Naya deck you’d destroy the Morph deck 😂
To be fair, Elesh Norn destroys a lot of decks, not just morph ones...
please dont speak this evil into my life
Not with Secret Plans :)
Yep...
*Closes Card Kingdom*
you have made me very upset
Perfect! This was the deck I really wanted too!
That justification from Wizards makes sense and certainly makes me feel a bit better about some cards (like Sensei’s) not being reprinted. With that said, I’d like to see Wizards then work on reprinting or even make some additional sets (not intended for beginners like commander yearly decks) that contain these commander staples.
Hold up. The argument against $20 reprints is that people would buy it too much, and hoard it? This is a printed product, is there an ink and cardboard shortage that prevents them printing more to meet that demand? That makes no sense at all.
Great edits to start with. I’m also looking for cards with activated abilities that you can sink mana into when you can’t flash stuff out. That way you can hold up mana and not waste your turn if you don’t end up using your morphs.
I just recently built Yarok, so I'm a little hesitant to build Sultai morphs as it would break my one-deck-per-color-combo rule, but she just looks so fun to play! Plus I already have Animorphs.
Kadena is kind of quicker because you can throw down a free morph as soon as she comes out, but will only do that once per turn, but also brings value.
Animar has to build up to three counters but then you can morph literally everything for free. More explosive, but you need more pieces to keep him going.
One thing that I have been considering on this note is creating "kits" for decks. I've been building towards Muldrotha, the Gravetide as a reanimator general, but sometimes I want to play Sultai but someone else is playing Muldrotha.
If you aren't going super in depth for flavor, and the land base doesnt change much, I'd recommend having a 40-ish card sideboard that changes Yarok to like Kadena. Gives you more bang for your buck and allows you to have a wider breadth of decks.
Why don't they just print more product if it get's hard to find?
Because it's a lot more complicated than going down the hall and pressing a big "print C19" button. Printing takes resources, the most important one being time. Wizards had to outsource to a printer that has finite machines with which to pump out cards. At some point they need to dedicate those resources to ensuring that there will be enough available for other products. It's just not realistic to think they can easily match demand if it's much more than they project.
Also, I think Wizards doesn't want what happened to Dragon's Maze, BFZ, and Conspiracy 2 when these products were printed to oblivion and the value of the boxes bottomed out immediately and many fans hated them for it at the time. There was too much product in circulation than the demand.
Aiden Noir to be fair wizards of the coast isn’t a mom and pop shop they are incredibly wealthy.
They did actually make a change to the printing policy in C18 iirc, so the decks are printed year-round.
@@vantain20 BFZ and Dragon's Maze were garbage sets, that's why they bottomed out. Conspiracy 2 is what we want from WotC, cheap out of the gate but packed with long-term value in reprints AND new cards. That's what makes the Magic economy work.
I think Hex is a pretty bad board wipe, I'm gonna get rid of it too.
Yeah I was thinking of replacing it with Casualties of War
All is dust if you have the budget
Super excited to see the video of this series for the Jeskai deck. Hope we dont have to wait tooo long.
The reprint argument goes out the window as soon as you realize you can get them at every walmart/target etc. Yes people can hoard them etc, but you will always be able to get them at msrp, where as masters sets etc dont have that same luxury. That being said I am extremely happy with this years decks
That's ridiculous. You obviously weren't paying attention when Atraxa dropped.
@@seanmachlan3282 and then comes Commander antholigy ..
@@bendiv7999 I don't think people would be happy to (hopefully) buy it 3 years after release.
@@seanmachlan3282 how many valuable reprints were in Atraxa?
@@patriotfreak54 Did you watch this episode?
33:13 the thing about using jeskai infiltrator. You and your opponent probably use different sleeves so the shuffling is probably useless
read the card again, it sais your library
.... Seedborn is the best card in the deck? Hands down????
Havengul Lich is my auto include. You can cast morphs from your grave for 4 or even 1?
Thanks for the idea! Cheers.
I just realized volraths activated ability works with ANY KIND of counter...
This is the video I've been waiting for!
What Wizards Says: "Guys we cant reprint high end cards in these decks because then it will be impossible for people who want to play with the product to find it!"
WoTC can literally print as many copies of these decks as demand will ask for, thats not a good excuse.
What Wizards actually MEANS: "We cant reprint high value cards because the invester market will fall out and although we will never admit it, that would effect our bottom line, and we cant have that."
Yup! Pretty much spot on.
Isn't that a reasonable consideration?
@@seanmachlan3282 What is reasonable? Wizards' excuse to not put more value in these decks? It isn't, because they control how many of them they're going to print. So if they simply doubled it in anticipation of the secondary market buying them up then it instantly kill any profiteering these hoarders might benefit from while simultaneously making the product more accessible to find/buy.
@@matthewcarroll2533 It is reasonable for a company to manage supply as they deem necessary to maintain value/demand, in an effort to maintain profits.
@@seanmachlan3282 Yeah exactly, and if you put high dollar reprints in a commander product the demand is going to naturally be very high. So, if the demand is very high, you're going to print many, many more of said product in order to meet the demand and in doing so, generate more sales. More sales means more profit and having a much larger print run also means more accessibility for the people wanting to get the product. Thus, I'm not really seeing any downside to putting in better reprints in these decks when, at the end of the day, they control the supply and the demand will always exist. Hell, it'll even be more demand with higher value reprints.
Gotta love the switch between card discussion and corporate speak XD
Wow guys, the deck as a built-in combo that you forgot to talk about. Brine Elemental and Vesuvan Shapeshifter is actually perma-stax on opponents' lands. I don't know if this is the first time a pre-con has that kind of game-breaking combo out of the box, but I believe it was worth mentioning.
45:38 I feel like this is exactly the type of deck where explore is good? If you're drawing a bunch of cards - which seems likely with this deck - you might end up with 2-3 lands in your hand. In that scenario rampant growth is just another ramp card that gets a land onto the battlefield, whereas explore does that while cantripping. Sure there are cases early game where explore is worse, but I think the upside for explore is there in the mid-late game.
Can you make a text list of the cards in and out?
Agreed
Jimmy rocking the Mononoke Hime shirt. Good shit.
Going to take the Pendant out of my precon and add it to Zedruu. Now I get a free card and life each upkeep even if they never activate it!
Also I'm surprised you guys didn't mention Qarsi Deciever. Tap it to add a colorless to pay for Morph, cast face down cards, and turn cards face up. Maybe because it the commander has a good enough discount?
Great breakdown as always guys! Will all of the breakdowns be out before Gameknights or will they be weekly releases as normal?
I found a combo in the Kadena deck. Biomass Mutation, X=0. Then, Sudden Substitution, kill all your opponents creatures and take their best one.
I've been playing the Sultai deck and it's pretty fun.
YO I HAVE A J FAMILY TOO😂 I’m Julian my brothers are Jayden and Jacob, and my parents are Jamie and Johanna 😂
The issue I have with this morph thing, is what’s the win con? Is it simply overrun or triumph if the hoardes , or do the pickles infinite lockout? Which I’m surprised you didn’t mention . Brine elemental combos with vesuvian shapeshifter
I sold my Ugin the day before this deck was spoiled....
Thank god I kept my foil one! lol
*Trump voice * “This has been, by far, the worst trade deal of my life.”
Ugin literally costs the exact same now than he did when the deck was spoiled. Just buy it back.
@@87channels acutally, it got cheaper :D
Scroll of mystery can also allow you to manifest a morph card with a higher morph cost than casting cost you can have use it to have a cheap morph effect.
If only Josh's family had a "James" and a cat... then they could be the Team Rocket family. :)
That ad segway - so gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
I'm going to get this deck for the fact that I started playing in kahns block.
My gut reaction with Pendant of Prosperity was to blink it with something like Aminatou to get it back, but then I realized it triggers every time it EtBs, so there goes that plan.
On a somehow related note, if you're going to play the deck out of the box, keep in mind that Rayami and Thought Sponge work against one another, which is another good reason to remove either/both, I guess.
I like to call this deck the Funky Cold Kadena. I definitely think that you guys should have sang the Funky Col Medina in the intro.
Word!
I guess, you could use volrath as one of the 99 and when you play it and get to combat-step, you could put a - 1/-1 counter on kadena, Pay 1 and play 2 morphs for free and draw 2 cards?
Volrath copies the name as well, so you'd legend rule yourself. Plus, since reads "first morph you play" it wouldn't stack
Thanks for the great video! I’m even more excited to get the new decks.
I love videos like these because of how much they help me. At the same time, I hate videos like these because they make the price of all these cards rise.
I don't know about you guys but for me (been playing EDH for 4-ish years now, not new but not old), the thing with the reprints is that if they just won't print even just the $15-20ish staples, the format then just gets progressively more expensive over time and I think its going faster now with how big EDH is. It's depressing how a casual, non-competitive format is getting to modern-level prices with each set release. Sure, the decks this year may have $90 in reprint value but I believe reprints now should be about keeping the prices of a CASUAL format down rather than the value.
They may have 90$ in reprint value before they got revealed but they surely are way below that now.
Also the € reprint value is probably at about 20-30€ prices in the US are just insane.
I fully agree that they should reprint stuff like teferis protection, parallel lives (or one of the other similar ones), cyclonic rift and other stuff. They are super good cards but the biggest problem of them is that they don't get reprinted.
Keep singing guys! You always brighten my day!
I actually really really like Explore (the card) just because its floor is just cycling a card, which you can't do with rampant growth and co. At the beginning of the game, it does a comparable job of ramping (just probably not fixing).
Plus I'm terrible making reasonable curves in my decks so having a 2 mana ramp/draw piece that I like a lot is pretty handy for me.
I also just love playing lots of lands.
Josh Bowdish it’s not ramp because you have to have the land in your hand, if you don’t it’s a dud. Ramp is getting extra lands in your hand to play
Grismold is actually an awesome commander. I have a lot of fun with my grismold deck.
Biomancer's familiar and Training Grounds are great adds to a morph deck.
I am very excited about this years Commander decks. I going to start with purchasing B/R and Jeskai, more or less for K'rrick and Elsha, plus its just good to have all these reprints.
the jeskai one feels so meh though. They put two different cards that wanted cmc 3 or less permanents in your graveyard, and there's not even 10 targets, and those permanents have no impact on your gameplan. I think it was a pretty mediocre build compared to the others
Gotta love the Major Tom reference💕💕 keep them coming
So do the morph flips count as etb effects? I’m new to commander and haven’t played in a format where morph is around. This deck looks awesome and am curious to see if Yarok, the Desecrated would work with it
I agree with cutting the Pendant from this deck. It's absurdly great with Mairsil though. :D
The pendant can be fun in the right deck. Karn from War. And Beguiler of wills to take it back then it becomes tap 2 tap it. Growth spiral. Then growth spiral again.
print enough product to deal with hoarders and gougers? It will drop the value of the card, however, it will open up availability for new players and players who want certain cards as well.