Thank you for sharing this, I'm just getting into brewing and as I go I see people making references to capturing yeast strains and using wild caught yeast, etc and it all seemed too technical and overwhelming to understand but this series really explains it in detail and in a way that's easy to grasp.
Love the vids! So when I want to get some Lactobacillus or Pediococcus from, lets say a commercial beer, do I culture single colonies and the look in the microscope? Would be nice with a video showing how to capture pedio and lacto. Again thank you for the videos and your blog. Regards Per
Per Karlsson There are various ways to ID lacto and pedio, but a scope would be an easy route. There are enrichment methods you can use as well; I posted a couple of blog posts about this for yeast, but similar methods (e.g. addition of a mycotic) could be used for lacto and pedio: suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/05/purifying-yeast-from-infected-cultures.html suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/05/purifying-yeast-from-infected-cultures_8.html
@@SuiGenerisBrewing I have some Espe kveik which seems to be infected by bacteria (the stout was great first few weeks, then began souring in bottles and overcarbing - across the batch) and some chlorone dioxide incoming. Will wash the yeast and report back.
Yes it would. Hence why I have an entire video series on using a microscope in the home brewery: ruclips.net/p/PLZ3Z2428mCTq2khVS8YIz0QTr9PA_HZmM That said, you cannot identify yeast (species or genus) solely by microscopy.
Thanks so much! Any hints on how to buy a microscope (400x, 800x etc)? Any other helpful aspects about microscopes? Light source etc? Thanks again. You already really helped me.
The magnification you need depends on your purpose. The total magnification of a microscope is determined by multiplying the magnification of the eye piece by the mag of the objective - i.e. a 10X eye piece (properly called the occular) and a 60x objective would be a 600X microscope. For counting yeast you need as low as 400X; for looking at morphology 600X is the minimum and 1000x is ideal. But when getting into 100X objective lenses you also want to look for lenses with good NA's (numerical apatures); below a NA of 0.5 or so a 100X lens will give you no more detail than a 60X or even 40X lens. A nice feature, but expensive, is phase contrast optics. This enhances the contrast in the images, making smaller features (including bacteria) much easier to see.
Good descriptions on colony morphology. This works well for lambic and sour beers but I would recommend isolating your colonies and using a light microscope to further determine whether it’s yeast or bacteria if trying to get a pure wild strain of S. cerevisiae
Thanks for the vids! I've been searching for a couple years for a style of beer that my wife actually likes. Turns out she liked a sweet & fruity lambic a friend brought over. So I want to brew a lambic for her using wild yeast collected from the backyard, but there isn't a lot of easy to understand info out there for the layman on how to safely harvest wild yeast. These videos have done just that. Next up is the Home Yeast Lab Made Easy video and hopefully some tasty homebrew down the road. Thanks again!
Ester Grant if you let the beer ferment for at least a month (preferably 2 or 3) the risk is minimal - keep in mind this is how yeast was aquired for 1000's of years. That said, there are companies that will do species ID if you want it.
Actually, I do know it is S. aureus as I performed a 16S sequence on it. Not too surprising it is there - we study S. aureus in my lab, so I'm likely covered in the stuff...
Sui Generis Brewing that is also a good way to confirm it. But molecular biology isn't exactly available to everyone. And there are more bacteria with yellow colonies, S. aureus is a very common one though.
+Goran Milosevic You cannot, based only on colony morphology. If you've harvested the yeast from a completely fermented beer that is at least a month old, the chance of their being e. coli is pretty small. Of course, with a microscope you can tell bacteria apart from yeast quite easily (bacteria are tiny in comparison). If you lack a microscope about all you can do is do a ferment test, using wort pre-adjusted to a pH of 4.5 , and if possible, containing about 2% alcohol/volume. This will suppress e. coli (and many other bacteria), while still allowing yeast to ferment. ~2 weeks later, check attenuation (with a refractometer) and smell the ferment - if it has a >60% decrease in attenuation, and smells 'yeasty' (bacteria will tend to smell like vomit, faeces, and other unpleasant things) you should be good-to-go.
+Sui Generis Brewing So if I culture wild yeast from fruit, dipping it into the wort and waiting to finish fermentation, and after that streak it on selective media like potato-sucrose agar, should I expect bacteria free growth?
+Goran Milosevic Potato-sucrose isn't selective; none-the-less, if you wait for a wild ferment to finish fermentation (i.e. let it go at least a month) there should be a low risk of plating out anything dangerous. You will likely still have some bacteria, however, such as lactobacillous and pediococcus, as these organisms thrive in wild ferments.
Thank you for sharing this, I'm just getting into brewing and as I go I see people making references to capturing yeast strains and using wild caught yeast, etc and it all seemed too technical and overwhelming to understand but this series really explains it in detail and in a way that's easy to grasp.
Thanks!
Another excellent video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
This is super good stuff for the amateur yeast wrangler! Thanks so much, Sui, and please keep these videos coming!
Thanx!
Love the vids! So when I want to get some Lactobacillus or Pediococcus from, lets say a commercial beer, do I culture single colonies and the look in the microscope? Would be nice with a video showing how to capture pedio and lacto. Again thank you for the videos and your blog.
Regards Per
Per Karlsson There are various ways to ID lacto and pedio, but a scope would be an easy route. There are enrichment methods you can use as well; I posted a couple of blog posts about this for yeast, but similar methods (e.g. addition of a mycotic) could be used for lacto and pedio:
suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/05/purifying-yeast-from-infected-cultures.html
suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/05/purifying-yeast-from-infected-cultures_8.html
Ok, so scope it is then.
Thanks
+Per Karlsson Du kan ta dem från filmjölk eller yoghurt lika gärna.
What about chlorine dioxide (water purifier) for killing off bacteria from captured wild yeast/bacteria mix?
It has been done commercially, but I've never tried the method myself.
@@SuiGenerisBrewing
I have some Espe kveik which seems to be infected by bacteria (the stout was great first few weeks, then began souring in bottles and overcarbing - across the batch) and some chlorone dioxide incoming. Will wash the yeast and report back.
Umbonate latin for "tit"?
please don't stop producing this I am learning miles from you
A MICROSCOPE WOULD BE OF GREAT HELP TO BETTER IDENTIFY THE YEAST THAT YOU WANT TO ISOLATE AMD HARVEST. 🤔
Yes it would. Hence why I have an entire video series on using a microscope in the home brewery: ruclips.net/p/PLZ3Z2428mCTq2khVS8YIz0QTr9PA_HZmM
That said, you cannot identify yeast (species or genus) solely by microscopy.
You are an endless fountain of wonderful knowledge!
can i really do this by eye? or do i need a microscope?
By eye works just fine. A microscope can help with ID, but otherwise doesn't add anything.
@@SuiGenerisBrewing i sent you an email about a TV series. Though my email migh just get into spam filters. can you check and holler me?
@@SuiGenerisBrewing I did ! I just sent again but you can holler me at 4169988025 or text me
nice
Thanks so much! Any hints on how to buy a microscope (400x, 800x etc)? Any other helpful aspects about microscopes? Light source etc? Thanks again. You already really helped me.
The magnification you need depends on your purpose. The total magnification of a microscope is determined by multiplying the magnification of the eye piece by the mag of the objective - i.e. a 10X eye piece (properly called the occular) and a 60x objective would be a 600X microscope.
For counting yeast you need as low as 400X; for looking at morphology 600X is the minimum and 1000x is ideal. But when getting into 100X objective lenses you also want to look for lenses with good NA's (numerical apatures); below a NA of 0.5 or so a 100X lens will give you no more detail than a 60X or even 40X lens.
A nice feature, but expensive, is phase contrast optics. This enhances the contrast in the images, making smaller features (including bacteria) much easier to see.
Thank you for the third video. I was looking forward to see it :)
Seems interesting 7 years ago though
And still going!
Good descriptions on colony morphology. This works well for lambic and sour beers but I would recommend isolating your colonies and using a light microscope to further determine whether it’s yeast or bacteria if trying to get a pure wild strain of S. cerevisiae
Thanks for the interesting content!
Thanks for the vids! I've been searching for a couple years for a style of beer that my wife actually likes. Turns out she liked a sweet & fruity lambic a friend brought over. So I want to brew a lambic for her using wild yeast collected from the backyard, but there isn't a lot of easy to understand info out there for the layman on how to safely harvest wild yeast. These videos have done just that. Next up is the Home Yeast Lab Made Easy video and hopefully some tasty homebrew down the road. Thanks again!
This is awesome! Makes me want to go back to school to finish my bio degree. Thank you very much for this awesome tutorial.
Awsome channel! I subscribed!
Great video, thanks
these videos are fantastic. Subscribed.
Agreed, these are fantastic and thank you!
are there tests you can get to confirm that an organism isnt pathogenic? because this seems like something that you really need an experienced eye for
Ester Grant if you let the beer ferment for at least a month (preferably 2 or 3) the risk is minimal - keep in mind this is how yeast was aquired for 1000's of years.
That said, there are companies that will do species ID if you want it.
Wow, this is gold for me.
You don't know if it's S. aureus until you plate it on blood agar. If there is a translucent ring around the kolonie you know it S. Aureus
Actually, I do know it is S. aureus as I performed a 16S sequence on it. Not too surprising it is there - we study S. aureus in my lab, so I'm likely covered in the stuff...
Sui Generis Brewing that is also a good way to confirm it. But molecular biology isn't exactly available to everyone. And there are more bacteria with yellow colonies, S. aureus is a very common one though.
Help about supper attenuated fermentation
How to distinguish E.Coli from S.Cervisae? They are both white-transparent and regularly shaped.
+Goran Milosevic You cannot, based only on colony morphology. If you've harvested the yeast from a completely fermented beer that is at least a month old, the chance of their being e. coli is pretty small. Of course, with a microscope you can tell bacteria apart from yeast quite easily (bacteria are tiny in comparison).
If you lack a microscope about all you can do is do a ferment test, using wort pre-adjusted to a pH of 4.5 , and if possible, containing about 2% alcohol/volume. This will suppress e. coli (and many other bacteria), while still allowing yeast to ferment. ~2 weeks later, check attenuation (with a refractometer) and smell the ferment - if it has a >60% decrease in attenuation, and smells 'yeasty' (bacteria will tend to smell like vomit, faeces, and other unpleasant things) you should be good-to-go.
+Sui Generis Brewing So if I culture wild yeast from fruit, dipping it into the wort and waiting to finish fermentation, and after that streak it on selective media like potato-sucrose agar, should I expect bacteria free growth?
+Goran Milosevic Potato-sucrose isn't selective; none-the-less, if you wait for a wild ferment to finish fermentation (i.e. let it go at least a month) there should be a low risk of plating out anything dangerous. You will likely still have some bacteria, however, such as lactobacillous and pediococcus, as these organisms thrive in wild ferments.
thanks for your time and please finish at least this series