I've never described anything as wholesome before, but I can't think of a better word for your videos lately. They're wholesome. Not flashy, loud, begging for clicks, just normal conversation that happens to be educational. Kind of reminds of Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood, but this is Mr. Beattie's Network
I wish I could star this comment. Wholesome is an excellent way to describe them. Dylan’s videos are the antidote to the brash, loud, obnoxious and uninformed opinions that dominate the space (I’m thinking about Theo et al). We need them!
I just subscribed simply because of how he removes all the fluff out of the topic. That is gold in an age where everyone is trying to show how clever they are and how much they know, all with a lot of emotion, and more energy that would put a politician to shame.
The Web really demonstrated the power of open standards and cross-company collaboration. Instead of every big tech company baking its own fragile solution, such as Flash, Java Applets etc., many stakeholders work together on a common solution that allows to solve their problems just well enough. These solutions are guaranteed to be maintained well and survive long.
It still took someone powerful enough to put their foot down (due to Jobs’ own ulterior motives) and drag the industry kicking into the 21st century of open standards
Absolutely *love* the history presentations. As someone whose primary education was in the physical sciences, seeing how a field grew and evolved vastly helps my own understanding of why certain technologies, patterns, frameworks, and so on were invented. They needed to solve (what were then) new problems. This is a great "brown bag" (lunch) style of talk with just enough detail to really learn something and research after where interest directs. Looking forward to the next one!
I, too, started on the web in the 90s (a bit later than you, 1995). This is an awesome, memory provoking, but also just super well constructed, historical survey. Thanks!
I recently started building an with django, with rendering on the server side, no front-end at all. This is a really great intro to all the available technology and its capabilities
and now, with HTMX, moving back to server side rendering and embracing the html markup as the actual state, and nearing unblocking wasm bottlenecks like dom access and standalone support, we are approaching something that will remix the boundaries yet again.
So I genuinely considered whether HTMX should be in the video, but in the end the patterns I chose were the ones that I consider to be the paradigm shifts in web architecture enabled by new APIs and browser capabilities: they all allowed us to do things which were previously impossible, or at least extremely difficult. You could get something a bit like XMLHttpRequest by using hidden IFRAMES, or using JavaScript to load images from particular URLs with payload data in the query string, but it wasn't easy and it was incredibly fragile. You could emulate socket connections using long-lived AJAX requests - send the request, wait thirty seconds, if you don't get anything back, the request times out so you send another one - but again, it was nothing like as easy or well-supported as the WebSockets API. I think HTMX is an extremely well-designed framework, but fundamentally I think it's just very good syntactic abstractions on top of client-side JavaScript, DOM manipulation and HTTP requests. We *could* have had HTMX in 2010 - all the building blocks were already there, we just hadn't really figured out the best way to put them together yet. It's an excellent framework but it solves the equivalent set of problems as jQuery/prototype/scriptaculous. (This is the part where somebody replies with "well actually... " and calls out some particular feature of HTMX which is only possible using WebSockets/WASM... but you get the idea. 😉)
@@DylanBeattie The other thing that should probably be on here is the sort of Next.JS hybrid approach of serverside + client side rendering using the same programming language....
This HTMX hype bullshit is getting out of hand, HTMX is merely a framework that does client side fetching nothing else, it's almost like fucking JQuery, i didn't change shit
@@tahamohammedi5898what you say has some truth. Indeed, many of us built our own HTMX like functions on top of JQuery. However, the hype behind HTMX is easy to understand when viewed through the lens of a younger developer who has only ever known SPA. To them, HTMX is a miraculous breath of fresh air. Many developers, especially the younger ones, are locked into the SPA mindset, not knowing there’s another way. 99% of websites and applications do not need to be, and indeed, should not be an SPA. I am glad HTMX is here for it changes this mindset of “SPA is the default”.
Can't remember the first time I saw one of your conferences and ended up looking you up because of it, I think it was the one about SMTP, ever since, it's been worth it!! Thank you for your time and efforts, your content is amazing and valuable.
It's worth noting that wasm isn't native code in the strict sense, it's run inside a virtual machine in a similar way to java - It's bytecode that a browser converts to native instructions on the fly. It's still much faster than JavaScript because it is parsed and run through optimisations beforehand and does not use a garbage collector. Those are all great things but it is not real assembly or machine code because it is CPU agnostic and requires extra steps before it can be run on all computers which has a performance penalty in exchange for portability, unopinionated standardisation and ease of implementation. It's an important distinction which I wish the dev team made
I remember disabling JavaScript on my browser back in the days for security reasons, now the only place I can not find JavaScript is on my laundry basket!
I still remember my first job as a 'web master' a century ago, using static html and bunch of animated gifs to show information in pages. coded with ms frontpage and later macromedia Dreamweaver.
Totally forgot about the “webmaster” title! I wasn’t a dev at the time but I feel like you’d see notes referencing the webmaster throughout the site “error: please contact the webmaster”
I like the videos talking about web related stuff. I want to get a better understanding the web technologies better and going through the history helps in getting an overview. Thanks for uploading!
I also wrote my first web page in 1992, but didn't really get into it until 1995. "Internet dinosaur" is very accurate! Edit: This is a brilliant channel! Thanks for bringing back those great memories in visual format!
I’m a cyber security and computer science double major, and this was an excellent excellent video. I learned a lot and also reinforced some things I wasn’t 100% sure about.
This is a good rundown of what transpired with the web for the last few decades. I dabbled in this industry in early 2010 when PHP was all the rage. I built a few CRUD websites with the WAMP stack and it was fun for a while. Now, I have skipped this *web sockets* wave and I am trying to jump back on to the *WASM* wagon. Wish me luck!
I fucking love the way you tell the story. Right about 10:22, I found myself laughing because you just emplained notifications like I'm five, but I've been building web applications for the past 5 years lol 😂😂
Great video! And very relatable. 2 years ago I got my first web dev job with just my personal blog on my CV. I made it as a React SPA with Django backend. Now I'm redoing the same blog to now be a server side generated web app. I guess in 3 years time I'll rewrite it again, either a Wasm SPA or static HTML.
I can’t imagine how much of a game changer AJAX calls were for the web. I’m so glad I didn’t have to go through the IE days of web dev tho, I’ve heard so many horror stories.
I've been doing this whole web dev thing for a long time and even with that I learned so much. The explanation of WASM was particularly useful for me. You got a new subscriber!
Well done. Thank you for a very cohesive and overarching explanation of web delivery technologies up to now. It definitely rounded out my understanding and filled a few holes.
We've also essentially moved from dumb terminals in the '70s to smart terminals now, with everything essentially running as a web app or something cloud-based. The idea of actually running software on that massively powerful machine in front of you has become antiquated.
In the 90s I found I could create an XML object dynamically and it acted very much like Ajax. Ajax just formalized a practice that was already posssible.
WebSockets were really just an technological evolution from long polling and Comet. Similar to how fetch was a better XMLHttpRequest. Should have mentioned those, too imo.
Post SPA world, there's this new kid called Svelte which does a hybrid of server side rendering and browser side JS/DOM rendering. I hope you'll talk about that in one of your videos in future,
What exactly new in that? Server side renders baseplate, js employs ajax to fetch fresh data and show it to user. We have been doing it for at least 20 years now.
@@yaroslavpanych2067 One could extend the same argument for SPA too. Nothing new in that. We had ajax before SPAs became popular. Svelte gives the best of both worlds - fast first time load (server side rendering) and client side rendering.
Damn, I remember being a kid and seeing Ajax being born. I tried to learn it, but it was too much for my brain. I didn't even speak english all that well so it made it harder to learn, but people were hyped as f
I agree with most of what you say, except maybe with the idea that WebAssembly is also a good way to solve problems, and I also have issues with Single Page Apps for similar reasons. The main question for me is how they compare to custom protocols. In my view, if you want to have a native app, you should have a native app, not a website. The real issue here is that many internet access points pointlessly limit the ports that can be used, which does nothing to security (as any malware can run over port 8080, and port scanning could be blocked in different ways), but makes it more difficult to create new protocols for new application like it was more standard before. Idk if this completely coincides, but I do find it strange that so many applications tried to be websites, when really I do not see the benefit, at around the time ports started to be blocked off more, it would be interesting to see a historical rundown of that (like when chats moved from protocols like XMPP to website clients).
My preferred architecture today is htmx and web components (compiled out of Svelte). Web components make the browser know how to render things, but the server still sends html so the browser doesn’t have to interpret JSON. Some heuristics: If the server will make a complex JSON object, it’s not much worse on the server to format it as html instead. Meanwhile on the client, the data is in html already, so it doesn’t have to work as hard to know how to display it. And then, web components enable this to not live strictly in vanilla html.
Steve Jobs killing the plugin did wonders for my income for a little while... various mates who had been doing Flash for years noticing their works-of-art didn't work on the coolest-device-to-own... they really quickly needed to talk to a computer programmer... and that was me.
Nice video, interesting and informative! Regarding languages that compile to JavaScript, I like the Flutter/Dart technology, because from the same code you can obtain mobile apps and desktop apps as well. And for the web version, you don’t have to worry about the fact that JavaScript is an extremely unsafe language: you write Dart code, which is type-safe and null-safe; then the transpiler will generate the appropriate and correct JavaScript code for you. How do you rate this approach vs. Webassembly?
Where do browser extensions come in? My favorite one is Vimium. This extension adds JavaScript so that I can use Vim-like motions to navigate without using the mouse.
12:42 I know at least a dozen of sites that still employ flash, and not going to stop anytime soon. It is just too expensive to rewrite it and DEBUG to the level it was on flash!
Internet dinosaur, ha ha. Old but not obsolete, like me. Nice exposition, I stopped at AngularJS. Blazor pages seem a step backwards, interleaving code and HTML smacks of ASP pages albeit wasm runs in the browser (?). Where does HTMX fit in, will it solve the markup problem?
I'd also put mobile apps on this chart. they're available on the net, they use urls, many connect to a server, many have a web engine under the hood, UI APIs are similar, they're just not written in js. and they are kind of in between regarding dynamic loading, they are updated from time to time, but not every time you open it
@@marioprawirosudiro7301 they have, but they lacked web-like infrastructure app stores provide. auto-update, discoverability, the link to get them in one tap. from the user perspective it's almost the same. if in some near future both web and mobile apps would be compiled to wasm, what would be the difference? wasm can already work outside the browser. all we need is to provide required interfaces.
I've never described anything as wholesome before, but I can't think of a better word for your videos lately. They're wholesome. Not flashy, loud, begging for clicks, just normal conversation that happens to be educational. Kind of reminds of Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood, but this is Mr. Beattie's Network
I wish I could star this comment. Wholesome is an excellent way to describe them. Dylan’s videos are the antidote to the brash, loud, obnoxious and uninformed opinions that dominate the space (I’m thinking about Theo et al).
We need them!
Evolution of youtube back to just sharing cool stuff for fun. 😊
I just subscribed simply because of how he removes all the fluff out of the topic. That is gold in an age where everyone is trying to show how clever they are and how much they know, all with a lot of emotion, and more energy that would put a politician to shame.
The Web really demonstrated the power of open standards and cross-company collaboration. Instead of every big tech company baking its own fragile solution, such as Flash, Java Applets etc., many stakeholders work together on a common solution that allows to solve their problems just well enough. These solutions are guaranteed to be maintained well and survive long.
It still took someone powerful enough to put their foot down (due to Jobs’ own ulterior motives) and drag the industry kicking into the 21st century of open standards
This. Was. Great.
No fuzz, no bull. Just good, clean information. A favorite video of 2024.
Subscribed.
Love this type of content. Knowing the history of our trade is underrated.
This is fantastic. Especially for the younger among us, who have not lived through the evolution of the web…
This is magnificent. I had multiple “penny drop” moments - understanding the context of the “why?” really helps me understand.
Absolutely *love* the history presentations. As someone whose primary education was in the physical sciences, seeing how a field grew and evolved vastly helps my own understanding of why certain technologies, patterns, frameworks, and so on were invented. They needed to solve (what were then) new problems. This is a great "brown bag" (lunch) style of talk with just enough detail to really learn something and research after where interest directs. Looking forward to the next one!
I, too, started on the web in the 90s (a bit later than you, 1995). This is an awesome, memory provoking, but also just super well constructed, historical survey. Thanks!
My favorite these days is what they call "Progressive web app". Again, thank you for sharing, I loved it.
I recently started building an with django, with rendering on the server side, no front-end at all.
This is a really great intro to all the available technology and its capabilities
and now, with HTMX, moving back to server side rendering and embracing the html markup as the actual state, and nearing unblocking wasm bottlenecks like dom access and standalone support, we are approaching something that will remix the boundaries yet again.
So I genuinely considered whether HTMX should be in the video, but in the end the patterns I chose were the ones that I consider to be the paradigm shifts in web architecture enabled by new APIs and browser capabilities: they all allowed us to do things which were previously impossible, or at least extremely difficult.
You could get something a bit like XMLHttpRequest by using hidden IFRAMES, or using JavaScript to load images from particular URLs with payload data in the query string, but it wasn't easy and it was incredibly fragile. You could emulate socket connections using long-lived AJAX requests - send the request, wait thirty seconds, if you don't get anything back, the request times out so you send another one - but again, it was nothing like as easy or well-supported as the WebSockets API.
I think HTMX is an extremely well-designed framework, but fundamentally I think it's just very good syntactic abstractions on top of client-side JavaScript, DOM manipulation and HTTP requests. We *could* have had HTMX in 2010 - all the building blocks were already there, we just hadn't really figured out the best way to put them together yet. It's an excellent framework but it solves the equivalent set of problems as jQuery/prototype/scriptaculous.
(This is the part where somebody replies with "well actually... " and calls out some particular feature of HTMX which is only possible using WebSockets/WASM... but you get the idea. 😉)
@@DylanBeattie The other thing that should probably be on here is the sort of Next.JS hybrid approach of serverside + client side rendering using the same programming language....
This HTMX hype bullshit is getting out of hand, HTMX is merely a framework that does client side fetching nothing else, it's almost like fucking JQuery, i didn't change shit
He did mention GWT which did exactly this, way before (it's now dead)
@@tahamohammedi5898what you say has some truth. Indeed, many of us built our own HTMX like functions on top of JQuery.
However, the hype behind HTMX is easy to understand when viewed through the lens of a younger developer who has only ever known SPA. To them, HTMX is a miraculous breath of fresh air.
Many developers, especially the younger ones, are locked into the SPA mindset, not knowing there’s another way. 99% of websites and applications do not need to be, and indeed, should not be an SPA.
I am glad HTMX is here for it changes this mindset of “SPA is the default”.
Can't remember the first time I saw one of your conferences and ended up looking you up because of it, I think it was the one about SMTP, ever since, it's been worth it!! Thank you for your time and efforts, your content is amazing and valuable.
very, very nice presentation. I feel a bit old now, but also relaxed, because there hasn't changed soo much the last 30 years 🙂
It's worth noting that wasm isn't native code in the strict sense, it's run inside a virtual machine in a similar way to java - It's bytecode that a browser converts to native instructions on the fly. It's still much faster than JavaScript because it is parsed and run through optimisations beforehand and does not use a garbage collector.
Those are all great things but it is not real assembly or machine code because it is CPU agnostic and requires extra steps before it can be run on all computers which has a performance penalty in exchange for portability, unopinionated standardisation and ease of implementation. It's an important distinction which I wish the dev team made
I remember disabling JavaScript on my browser back in the days for security reasons, now the only place I can not find JavaScript is on my laundry basket!
I still remember my first job as a 'web master' a century ago, using static html and bunch of animated gifs to show information in pages. coded with ms frontpage and later macromedia Dreamweaver.
"Webmaster" 😂 my first title. The 90s were a wild time for web dev.
Brb updating my title on Linkedin
MS front page, wow that’s a blast from the past
Totally forgot about the “webmaster” title! I wasn’t a dev at the time but I feel like you’d see notes referencing the webmaster throughout the site “error: please contact the webmaster”
I like the videos talking about web related stuff. I want to get a better understanding the web technologies better and going through the history helps in getting an overview. Thanks for uploading!
I also wrote my first web page in 1992, but didn't really get into it until 1995.
"Internet dinosaur" is very accurate!
Edit: This is a brilliant channel! Thanks for bringing back those great memories in visual format!
Very helpful overview! Thanks!
An insightful narrative of the tumultuous evolution in web technology since the 1990s. ;)
I’m a cyber security and computer science double major, and this was an excellent excellent video. I learned a lot and also reinforced some things I wasn’t 100% sure about.
This is a good rundown of what transpired with the web for the last few decades. I dabbled in this industry in early 2010 when PHP was all the rage. I built a few CRUD websites with the WAMP stack and it was fun for a while. Now, I have skipped this *web sockets* wave and I am trying to jump back on to the *WASM* wagon. Wish me luck!
Thank you for your nice presentation. Perfectly done! 👍🏻👍🏻
I fucking love the way you tell the story. Right about 10:22, I found myself laughing because you just emplained notifications like I'm five, but I've been building web applications for the past 5 years lol 😂😂
Absolutely spectacular overview!
Great video! And very relatable. 2 years ago I got my first web dev job with just my personal blog on my CV. I made it as a React SPA with Django backend. Now I'm redoing the same blog to now be a server side generated web app. I guess in 3 years time I'll rewrite it again, either a Wasm SPA or static HTML.
Whatta great way of helping us understand!
To be honest Dylan can make any dry topic sound like the most interesting thing ever. Always a fascinating talk.
This was a great video, very entertaining and very informative!
You really desrve more likes. Really enjoyed video. Thank you...
Excellent presentation.
I can’t imagine how much of a game changer AJAX calls were for the web. I’m so glad I didn’t have to go through the IE days of web dev tho, I’ve heard so many horror stories.
love these bites of history
I've been doing this whole web dev thing for a long time and even with that I learned so much. The explanation of WASM was particularly useful for me. You got a new subscriber!
Excellent overview. Wish I had this video when I was teaching at a web dev bootcamp.
Well done. Thank you for a very cohesive and overarching explanation of web delivery technologies up to now. It definitely rounded out my understanding and filled a few holes.
Amazing content! I would have loved to see PWA in that timeline though 🙃
Brilliant work you`ve made
We've also essentially moved from dumb terminals in the '70s to smart terminals now, with everything essentially running as a web app or something cloud-based. The idea of actually running software on that massively powerful machine in front of you has become antiquated.
Great content, thank you!
Great video, Dylan. Yet somehow my major takeaway was just how I old must be ;)
12:00 thanks a lot for this video. many a times, the story of past, if shared in proper way, can do wonders to increase ur understanding of things.
That was awesome. Thx
Your are inspiring!! I had a big aha Moment.
It gives me as a young Programmer i much better understanding of the web in gernal. Thanks.
Can't wait to the primeagen take on this.
oh sweet always seen videos of you talking in conferences didnt realize you had a channel
Gran charla!
Y explicado de una manera muy didáctica!
Grandes recuerdos de flash y Dreamweaver!
In the 90s I found I could create an XML object dynamically and it acted very much like Ajax. Ajax just formalized a practice that was already posssible.
Great video might revive applets just to make people mad
Great video! I still use classic asp
Before Ajax I had send the Data for the JavaScript App by generating Inline-Scripts containing the Serverdata..
This was great
WebSockets were really just an technological evolution from long polling and Comet. Similar to how fetch was a better XMLHttpRequest. Should have mentioned those, too imo.
Fetch is not better, it is just other, and most likely nih-crap.
Thank you.
And I thought I had been a web dev 😅 Thanks for filling some gaps! 😊
well done
EventSource was a funny stepping stone to WS.
Nothing about Perl/CGI? That's what I used for my first "web app". I like your vids.
Pop filter needed for that particular microphone placement
Very loud on headphones
Missing your talks, Dylan 👍
Post SPA world, there's this new kid called Svelte which does a hybrid of server side rendering and browser side JS/DOM rendering. I hope you'll talk about that in one of your videos in future,
Kinda like JSF and the like, only a million times better.
What exactly new in that? Server side renders baseplate, js employs ajax to fetch fresh data and show it to user. We have been doing it for at least 20 years now.
@@yaroslavpanych2067 One could extend the same argument for SPA too. Nothing new in that. We had ajax before SPAs became popular.
Svelte gives the best of both worlds - fast first time load (server side rendering) and client side rendering.
Wow, awesome seeing all those stages in a graph. And good to see wasm, the big brother of java applets
Damn, I remember being a kid and seeing Ajax being born. I tried to learn it, but it was too much for my brain. I didn't even speak english all that well so it made it harder to learn, but people were hyped as f
I agree with most of what you say, except maybe with the idea that WebAssembly is also a good way to solve problems, and I also have issues with Single Page Apps for similar reasons. The main question for me is how they compare to custom protocols. In my view, if you want to have a native app, you should have a native app, not a website. The real issue here is that many internet access points pointlessly limit the ports that can be used, which does nothing to security (as any malware can run over port 8080, and port scanning could be blocked in different ways), but makes it more difficult to create new protocols for new application like it was more standard before. Idk if this completely coincides, but I do find it strange that so many applications tried to be websites, when really I do not see the benefit, at around the time ports started to be blocked off more, it would be interesting to see a historical rundown of that (like when chats moved from protocols like XMPP to website clients).
My preferred architecture today is htmx and web components (compiled out of Svelte). Web components make the browser know how to render things, but the server still sends html so the browser doesn’t have to interpret JSON.
Some heuristics: If the server will make a complex JSON object, it’s not much worse on the server to format it as html instead. Meanwhile on the client, the data is in html already, so it doesn’t have to work as hard to know how to display it. And then, web components enable this to not live strictly in vanilla html.
I'm looking forward to a browser implementation of serverless (P2P).
Steve Jobs killing the plugin did wonders for my income for a little while... various mates who had been doing Flash for years noticing their works-of-art didn't work on the coolest-device-to-own... they really quickly needed to talk to a computer programmer... and that was me.
Coolest device to own is, and always was brain. If you don't have one, or have one in abandned state, no other devices will fix that.
Very nice overview :)
The only server side renderer worth a mention was Perl!
thanks
Nice video, interesting and informative!
Regarding languages that compile to JavaScript, I like the Flutter/Dart technology, because from the same code you can obtain mobile apps and desktop apps as well.
And for the web version, you don’t have to worry about the fact that JavaScript is an extremely unsafe language: you write Dart code, which is type-safe and null-safe; then the transpiler will generate the appropriate and correct JavaScript code for you.
How do you rate this approach vs. Webassembly?
Lesson of the day: KISS
What about long polling before websockets?
Where do browser extensions come in? My favorite one is Vimium. This extension adds JavaScript so that I can use Vim-like motions to navigate without using the mouse.
12:42 I know at least a dozen of sites that still employ flash, and not going to stop anytime soon. It is just too expensive to rewrite it and DEBUG to the level it was on flash!
one axis missing is canvas / webgl / webgpu and how web apps now don't even need to be use html and the dom to display content
What a cluster fuck of insider trading and zero planning
The browser wars have just begun
Your videos are always a pleasure. I look forward to them 👍
Low-JS libraries like HTMX or Unpoly are the next evolutionary step.
I expected to see General Kenobi as a response... 10:28 😢
When will you say it was the pick time in web development?
💚
RIP Flash. The internet was fun once. And charmingly janky.
oh no they made fetch() happen
Another excellent video - Insta-subscribe :-)
Awesome video. But man I can't pin your accent. It's like British with a twist of Oz and North American
London via Nairobi, Bulawayo, Harare, Bristol, Southampton - and a whole lot of American movies and TV shows along the way. 😉
@@DylanBeattie ha, that'll do it. Really enjoying your videos btw. Just subscribed
LOL IKR!
apple fucked it all up as always. we could already have "wasm"
Internet dinosaur, ha ha.
Old but not obsolete, like me.
Nice exposition, I stopped at AngularJS. Blazor pages seem a step backwards, interleaving code and HTML smacks of ASP pages albeit wasm runs in the browser (?). Where does HTMX fit in, will it solve the markup problem?
Htmx? Will watch
Yep, started out back in 1989 (think). We're dino-bros!
HTMX?
HyperMedia HyperMedia HyperMedia HyperMedia!
I’m fucking more than twice as old as the internet was when I was born, wtf is going on
My life as a slide 😅
🙂
HTMX HTMX HTMX
You are SO MISSING long polls (actual realtime way before WebSockets).
I'd also put mobile apps on this chart. they're available on the net, they use urls, many connect to a server, many have a web engine under the hood, UI APIs are similar, they're just not written in js. and they are kind of in between regarding dynamic loading, they are updated from time to time, but not every time you open it
I don't think it's proper tbh. Client softwares have always existed, even before the web. It's a bit of a reach to put them on that chart.
@@marioprawirosudiro7301 they have, but they lacked web-like infrastructure app stores provide. auto-update, discoverability, the link to get them in one tap.
from the user perspective it's almost the same.
if in some near future both web and mobile apps would be compiled to wasm, what would be the difference?
wasm can already work outside the browser. all we need is to provide required interfaces.
Next step: v0