Before you comment: This isn't political. This isn't me bitching (follow me on Twitter if you want to see some world class bitching). In the video, repeatedly, I've clearly stated that I'm the first to be judged in vinyl collecting/producing, and that my goal is not to shame people for using vinyl, but encourage artists to reconsider it until vinyl plants even remotely consider the environmental damage and god forbid spend a few bucks to use a safer and more recyclable polymer. This is a novelty hobby in 2020, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect vinyl to be held up to the same environmental standards as virtually every other consumer product we interact with. In the 5 months since I uploaded this video, over a dozen artists (some indy, some quite notable) and 2 labels have contacted me saying that they're either scrapping or delaying vinyl releases due to these concerns. That might not be a big number, but it's 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars that vinyl manufacturers won't receive until they can offer a better solution. That is AMAZING news, why? I created this video not to shame people for collecting or releasing vinyl. Very few of us knew about these issues because very few people have researched or publicized environmental concerns. But now, those who have reacted to this either by changing their habits, or even sharing the video/information, have created actual tangible financial incentive for vinyl manufacturers to innovate and give consumers an improved, safe product. If you're a vinyl collector, artist, label, or even record shop, I hope you can see this video and the early results of it as great news. A technological upgrade in vinyl will stimulate an industry that is economically hanging on by novel threads. Peace!
Test an old record...this don't scientific at. Test a new record then Test it a week later then a month later. Why didn't you test your room that has your record collection in it? Why do non scientists post stuff like this on youtube acting like its valid? Yes plastics are creepy with chemicals but dude you're not a scientist...maybe a beat scientist but...
@@paticusmaximus12 Also needs to use a lab-evaluated meter. I've done my own tests with a lab-evaluated meter and there are literally no changes in particulate matter or TVOC when playing a record -- new or old. I could see perhaps some particulate changes if playing a particularly dirty record that was throwing dust into the air but I'm testing w/ clean records.
"The sacred thing is not the disk or the turntable, it's us music lovers taking a break from our hectic days, and just closing our eyes, relaxing, and actually listening to the music."
I spent a whole year avoiding this video because I was afraid of the truth. I was finally able to confront it today, and I want to thank you, Benn, for standing up and saying something that you knew people didn't want to hear. I didn't either, because of how much I cherish my vinyl collection, but my concern for the health of our planet eventually won and I decided it would be better to know the truth. I hope other vinyl lovers feel the same way and demand a safer material for the future of record manufacturing. Thanks again Benn, and keep on doing what you're doing. It's a real rare thing to find someone so dedicated to finding the truth in the age of "alternative facts". Stay safe!
The environmental impact is negligible. If we'd get rid of vinyls, we'd still have the same unsustainable society and way of life, only without vinyl records. Same applies to most feel-good solutions we have for the environment. The problem is a world that requires a billion cars driving around. The problem is every single household item and consumer good having global supply chains. The problem is every societal function requiring a huge amount of energy slaves. We are talking about huge, structural flaws plaguing our modern society and its most inherent functions, not a set amount of individual single issues that will magically save the planet once solved. That being said, finding a new, more sustainable material for vinyl records doesn't hurt anyone.
After going through the formats of cassettes, then CDs, then briefly thinking I wanted a vinyl collection (that took up too much space), then back to CDs....then finally digitizing my collection...let's just say that when I want a physical product from a band, it's a dang tshirt. And then I can be a walking billboard for my favorite musicians.
I’d still say get a cassette or CD. There’s Gonna be a world like The Book of Eli where digital content just won’t exist, I couldn’t imagine waking up to the internet just being gone, all my collections would cease to exist
@@arisumegoit’s a chemical that was in the news about 20-25 years ago when lots of kids’ plastic cutlery and crockery was found to leech it into foods. It’s pretty dangerous to eat, not sure if being on a CD is a problem (or even true). To me it reminds me of people who don’t want plastic water pipes due to potential leeching (reasonable) who then go on to act like PVC window frames are toxic and poisoning everyone in the building (dubious af).
Ok now this might be the first time in a while that I've been confronted with an idea that I literally never thought about, and now that I've been educated on the health risks and environmental implications of vinyl, I have no idea what to do with this information. Great video.
I found you last night re: Behringer controversy (because when there's controversy it's always recommended by youtube) but I've spent most of the morning just listening to this stuff while I go about my day. This channel is fucking cool.
Honestly the reason I buy Vinyl (not often, but sometimes), is that Vinyl covers look so much better (mostly due to size and not being plastic) than CDs. If they sold CDs in oversized Paper Covers I would gladly buy that instead.
My peepee hurts so bad right now. Just started collecting vinyl last year and have some of my granddads from the 60s. Maybe I’ll just listen to them until I die which will be soon.
The VOC meter experiment’s pretty solid but you needed to remove the turntable as a variable. If pvc off-gassing is the culprit then the meter should go off with only an LP and no turntable present. If the meter alarm is going off whenever the turntable is set on “play” then you have to address the possibility that the VOCs are being produced by the turntable itself, like from the belt or another internal component. Setting good control scenarios (meter + LP only, and meter + turntable only) would eliminate that doubt
It was the turntable. I tried this with a meter. I couldn't reproduce it with my old table but with a newer one I can reproduce it a little without a record.
I’m in the process of starting a label and artist support with my friend and this is the elephant in the room I’ve been thinking about a lot. I was only concerned about the carbon footprint associated with production and shipping, this has been quite a shock. Exceptionally eloquent argument man, you deserve respect not abuse for making such a big sacrifice. I also watched your video on Behringer, very eloquent and insightful. Thank you for being brave in your work 🙏🏻 I’ll will look for your music.
Dying because my record collection poisoned me would be such a poetic ending. But I also eat garbage and don't exercise so something else is going to kill me way before a bunch of David Bowie albums.
@@torontotonto6189 Or right next to it. I tried this and TVOCs didn't move. It was probably his new record player that he took right out the box. It was probably heating up and releasing factory chemicals which it'll eventually stop doing.
@@deniwastaken It's hard to test at home and isn't the shock factor of this particular video. There probably are detrimental environmental impacts and they should be addressed. I'd be curious how they stack up to the impacts of the devices we're putting music on. Sure you could get a ton of music on an iPhone but what horrors are inflicted on the world to create that? The servers to store and deliver that music? All the infrastructure in between? If you buy even 1 dedicated music device, how many vinyls would it take to have an equivalent environmental impact? I'd wager vinyl is barely a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things but we need proper studies to find out. This aspect of the debate is also only applicable to purchases of new vinyl as we can't change the impacts of pre-existing records.
@@deniwastaken Thats because "environmental" arguments which attack people in The US/Europe/Japan etc are entirely moot points when China and India are contributing vastly more to the environmental problem than all of them combined. If people actually cared they would focus on where it will actually matter. Reducing the impact of an already minimal part of the overall contribution is meaningless.
Optimal Media makes records from 100% recycled material (re-vinyl), and there’s also DeepGrooves and others that are trying to make the process more environmentally friendly also (avoiding heavy metals, using injection molding instead of pressing for lower energy use, etc.), not to mention environmentally friendly, recycled packaging and carbon offsets.
On the environmental side, recycling something does not necessarily make it more environmentally friendly. It partially ameliorates the original damage (arguably) but you are a) still not guaranteeing that the vinyl will be properly disposed of when the recycled version reaches its end of life and b) expending energy to create the new product. While different manufacturing materials may help in the future, it is still highly unlikely that the expenditures associated with a physical product versus a digital one can be bridged.
@@Seamalicous reusing instead of recycling, meaning second hand vinyl and second hand turntables are the way to go. ofcourse, quality is key; not all 20 year old turntables will run smoothly, but there is one brand that does. (sadly prices skyrocketed when discontinued - now resurrected with a simlar price problem ) And not to be superfluous when the argument has been used before, but it's important to note that music in the cloud is about as environmentally sane as driving an electric car on coal-electricity.
@lucky luk9 what is this magical thinking. You've seriously never seen a pile of discarded vinyls post moving? Besides, hard drives and flash drives have perfectly usable materials leftover that can be salvaged after the fact and serve far more uses than just holding a spitful of songs, vinyl records have terrible recycling potential outside of just making more vinyl records. If you really wish to avoid the cloud because you legitimately think the massive infrustracture behind it that powers the modern internet is in anyway stressed by accomodating the extremely light files that bring music to you, you can do what most people without unlimited data plans already do and just press the little "download" button that keep the songs on your device after a single stream, incredible! If you want to support the artist, just about all of them have a donation link or a digital good you can purchase to pay your dues and then you don't even have to create landfill filling, hope the advice helps
Definitely makes you think. I'm all for ditching pvc in exchange for a recyclable alternative. Side note, "arboreal" is one of the best albums of all time. Cheers!
if he's not lying & cares so much, why doesn't he have a 'link below' on how to get one of those meters? Also, his record collection is in his house also.
After watching this I bought an air quality detector and couldn’t replicate these results. I played records next to it and stacked them up in a similar way and got no increase in HCHO or TVOC or pm2.5 or pm10 it stayed within ‘good’ levels. I played old records from the 60s, 70s and 80s and recent records I even played Dopesmoker by Sleep and no increase.
If you really want the polyvinyl stank, your gonna need to listen to Mr Squarepusher and feed your vinyl weird things. Or perhaps some fucked up bong-ra riddims or some banged up industrial insanity from Alex Empire. The music must make the equipment angry, and then the poison emerges. Only breakcore is capable of warping the air. Fucked up chemistry needs fucked up beats. Hey, dont blame me, its the law.
Thanks for going out of your way to test the claims of someone trying to push his assumptions on everyone. Nearly all of the things he says in this video have viable counterarguments, such as the new IKEA table he's wafting air up from with each tester freakout. The process and preservative chemicals used in the "recycled wood product" that makes that table possible and affordable will trigger all of those alarms, but needs his record or body movement to stir the air first. I immediately suspected that this trick would be employed when he talked about sealing the room as carefully as he - actually didn't - but simply caused the air to be more or less still. Nearly every point he makes is a quick and easy debunk, and mostly using examples of everyday products that have the same criteria as his target object. The key takeaway from this video should have been, or simply included with emphasis: "Indoor air is generally unhealthy. Along with everything else in your house, vinyl records also contribute to poor air quality in your home. Ensuring that your living space has good fresh air exchange is important to respiratory and overall health. " But that's as boring as a statement from the government health agencies that he cites for clout, while pumping the volume on his bullshit cause, which only contributes to an overall reduction in the mental health of anyone willing to listen to him talk about shit he doesn't understand.
@@sircolt8184 So are the multitude of things you used to type and relay that statement. The people who assembled those things, are likely either still working with exposure-related health issues, or already dead at a young age. Yet, you don't think about these things when you consume the uncountable objects in your life. Ask yourself why you focus your energy on this one thing, and who stands to gain from your oblivious service?
@@XenonOrion Bro they’re not a haiku is a poem with the format of 5 syllables 7 syllables 5 syllables Like this: Oh, my aching back Might as well call workman’s comp It’s thrown out again
If there were considerable health risks to having old vinyl around, I would expect there to be corresponding health problems for long time record store owners (especially ones with large used inventory). Thinking about the proprietors of records in the hundreds of record stores I've stopped in across the country, the majority of the owners have been older enthusiasts who have been exposed to high concentrations of record collections for years without any significant health issues. I don't think the relatively small collection in my house is going to pose any significant health risk. Possibly placing the air quality sensor more than a few inches from the record would allow the PVOC to disperse to a more reasonable concentration. One thing left out of the video in favour of vinyl is the physical interaction with the music. The time commitment to selecting what you want to spend the next 15 to 20 minutes doing keeps me involved as a listener. When I have a playlist of endless music available, it starts to just wash over me and become part of the background. I much prefer the engagement with the music that I enjoy while playing records.
He's mostly using a really old tactic from the times of the Bible.. politicians use it all the time.. it's called fear mongering! Literally everybody before 1990 grew up with Vinyl records in their house or even in their room. I'm not debating the toxicity of Vinyl but I bet that air quality changes with just the things in the room. If you bring a plastic bottle into your house and put that meter next to it, it'll probably do the same thing. lol.
I also like that it’s physical. I don’t even need electricity to find a way to hear what’s on a record. It’s a legitimate archival medium. File formats, Chips, all that stuff changes and has its own drawbacks. I don’t think vinyl should be treated like a mass market commodity (and if you buy it from Walmart you’re kind of an asshole). I only buy records I already know I love, none of it is or ever will be trash unless I die.
I’ve worked in record stores for years, and dug through a lot of collections, and when I talked to others that did this, we all knew what it meant when you’d feel sick after looking through a lot of boxes. Is it mold? Feeling tired? It makes me wonder, but also is just a way to point out the environmental cost of manufacturing vinyl. But he doesn’t leave that out. It’s specifically addressed at the end of the video, and I agree. I also smoke, even though I know it’s bad for me. I just like the feeling.
About the test you did, there are two important variables (in my opinion) that you didn't address. First, your location (or the air monitor's) in the room relative to the turntable. I suppose the further away from the turntable you get, the more diluted the particles get in the air, and thus less of a risk. The second is the dust cover. I always have mine down while playing a record to keep dust from settling on it. But it works the other way around too: it prevents these particles from leaving. I'm quite confident that the dust cover more often than has enough static energy to hold the small particles, thus only polluting the inside of the cover. I can't argue with the fact that it would be interesting to see a propper, peer reviewed study on the subject.
I'm actually just getting into some base-level record collecting. The thing is, I don't do it out of some perception that the audio is superior. I just like the artwork and that putting on the record feels like more of an experience to add to the music. I agree that digital audio is superior, and yes, I could put on Spotify and just listen to an album all the way through, but there's something I can't quite explain that feels good about putting a record on and just sitting there, listening to the audio all the way through and having to get up to flip the disc. I don't get the people that spaz out when they hear criticisms of the format, though.
Same. And I have never held onto a digital format. Things get corrupted. Storage formats change. Licenses to digital content aren't exactly ours even when we pay for them. Vinyl I will have until I die and then can be sold to someone else or passed on. All of that said, I'm definitely down with changes made to manufacturing to make people who make and buy vinyl safer. And to make it more green. Good thing is all of that is happening. Also, very quick research reveals great counterpoints to it being harmfully toxic to listeners. For one, the monitor he uses is right by the record where concentration would be highest. Typically, you would keep a monitor for personal air safety on yourself with a main monitor mounted in the room. But it is good to know I need to not keep my face right by my player.
This video feels like an Android vs iPhone debate lol, yeah digital is technically higher spec sound but vinyl is a better experience (in my personal opinion)
I have read through a bunch of comments and here's my message to anyone freaking out about their records (but I'm just a guy on the internet not a scientist so take this with a grain of salt): First off, YOU WILL PROBABLY BE FINE. Just because your risk is increased, doesn't mean you will get it. Besides, there are so many products made of PVC chances are there are bigger risks than your vinyl collection. And if it helps put you at ease, the test he did was with an open record player that the meter was right next to. As long as you have a dust cover and don't sit over it, you won't be quite that exposed to it. There are also questions of verification when it comes to what type of meter he used, and that it could have been over-sensitive (though I can't say for sure if it was or wasn't accurate, I know practically nothing about air monitoring equipment). So don't freak out, you'll most likely be fine. That being said, the environmental impact is still a problem. These plastics are clearly not good for humans or the ecosystem, and there are many more recyclable materials that can be used. Some record companies have employed using recyclable methods. I've even seen pressings made out of recycled coke bottles. We should be fighting for a change in how records are made, because it really wouldn't be that hard to make them that way. But realistically if records were dangerous enough that you would have to worry about your own health, record store owners would be dropping dead left and right. Some of the record store owners in the comments talked about how after emptying boxes of them for too long they usually "get dizzy", which means they clearly got a hefty amount of PVC to the point of being able to feel it. Despite this, there hasn't been a boom in record store owner deaths or we would have most certainly have heard something about it. Is that bad for them? Yes of course, but if that amount of exposure doesn't kill a substantial amount of them, chances are your limited exposure won't cause enough damage to concern yourself over. So don't worry, you're ok, just try to buy less PVC and support the movement to get rid of it if you can.
@@mulangira79 when compared to usefulness and considering scale, my gut very much says no, it’s not comparable, vinyl is worse by far. Editing to add why: electronics serve way more functions for us than vinyl records, and that “value” feels pretty important to consider when discussing toxicity. Cancer treatments can be toxic, but the benefit increases the value. Also the fact that records can’t be recycled or even thrown in the trash says a lot. There’s environmental cost to making a computer, but that computer can then go on to make tons of music, or get used in a library, or at a workplace, and even with obsolescence I’d argue the computer “accomplishes” far more than the record. Not to mention electronics recycling, refurbishment, etc. With the record, it’s environmentally costly to make, remains environmentally costly throughout it’s involuntarily infinite lifespan (due to lack of disposal opportunities), and serves an EXTREMELY narrow purpose. But hey what do I know, I’m a rando with a displeasure for “whatabout x” as a distraction tactic, not an environmental scientist.
@@Feverm00n I guess the way to know what is more toxic would be to quantify how many vinyl records and record players vs. how many music playing digital consumer items and production tools make up our landfills. Im not claiming a side here I just see the logic is not exactly accurate. Both methods are inevitably toxic once they get to the landfill, but realistically how much gets to the landfill. Tech is designed with obsolescence in mind. Tech is made with the end point preconceived as being a landfill or e waste recycling (which a whole other polluted can of worms i.e. mercury and lead from circuit boards being dumped into rivers, lithium batteries etc... ).Vinyl was invented without a thought of it ever leaving the shelf.
Don't worry about it, the unit he's using for measurement is cheap and unreliable, you can find them on Amazon under different brand names but they're all mass-produced gadgets from China with no certification or calibration documentation. I've done the same test with a lab-calibrated air quality meter and there is literally no change when I place it near vinyl. I've tested new vinyl, old vinyl, there's nothing.
@@CT-ho6si I'm sure many people with large vinyl collections would appreciate if you were to publish your methodology and results on a site like Medium. 🙏
@@TehAwesomer Thanks for the comment, I've been considering making my own video -- I'm curious why you mentioned Medium, can you let me know why you prefer that site?
Thanks for this and all the time you take to get things right. You are such a rare combination of awesome things: Music, Technology, Objectivity, Science, Rational Environmental Conservation, and, feeding my Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
No objectivity. PVC is everywhere. Microscopic particles... It's all around us... As if vinyl makes a difference, cool it with the paranoia and get a life.
The reason I like vinyl is 3 fold. I like the aesthetic, the *large* album covers, the unique and distinct grooves or in some cases actual qualities of the vinyl material. Another reason is that they are uniquely tactile; go to the shelf, look for an album, pick out the album, take it out of the sleeve, put it on the table, start the table; all of it is physical and in real space in front of you. Lastly, and this plays into the previous point, it forces me to slow down; I can go on my phone and listen to any song by any artist at any moment, any playlist, and I can do that on a whim; vinyl forces me to pick a specific album from a specific artist and listen through. No song skips, nothing, just me and the time it takes to pick an album and listen to it. All of this, especially the last point, is good for my mental health, it's incredibly helpful for me. None of this is related to sound quality, or storage. Healthwise it's a calculated risk. The benefits I get from the listening experience of vinyl outweigh any perceived negatives, and I say perceived because in the case of storage I see the reduced capacity as a plus. Listening experience is so much more than just sound quality, it's everything in the way you interact with music. Why else would you go to a live show if the album is the most refined and difinitive version of the music? It's a different experience. I'm not some purist, I listen to music via phone/computer or cd vast majority of the time, but I'll put on some vinyl when I really need it.
I don't have any illusions about it sounding better. I don't think that at all. I just love owning my favorite things (I collect books and movies as well), and the interactive nature of records grounds me. I love putting a record on, flipping it, looking at artwork as it spins, watching it spin, it's an intoxicating process and makes me feel connected to people of the past who are long gone but did this all the time too. I've always known it's bad for the environment, but on this one thing, I guess I'm terribly selfish. Collecting is one of the things that makes me happiest and I'm sticking to it.
So you're one of the many people who doesn't know how to make records sound good, so that means you're not the person to listen to on this subject, not an authority, not real insight. Please don't be one more person confusing your low skill level with 'records don't sound very good'. If we're gonna be like that, then the fact is most mp3s are badly-compressed and have lots of digital artifacts, so that means 'digital music bad' since that's how most of it actually sounds. Records win again.
@jamescarter3196 He's not saying they sound bad. He's just saying they don't magically sound better. Too many people who first get into collecting records feel the need to justify their hobby on the "sound quality". Also you're assuming things about this person's setup and knowledge because you have no other arguments. Nothing they said indicates they have a poor setup. You're just assuming that because they don't blindly claim records sound better than digital audio. This implies you'd only take their argument seriously if they already agree with your position. Your argument is completely backwards. So much of the audiophile community is rotten to the core with sacred shibboleths and massive egos ballooned by monetary investment. As someone who has been a part of that toxic community, I hope you find your way out one day.
@@dank5018hear hear. I was also part of it until I dared say midrange equipment was good enough for most people. Then I got kicked out 😅 which did me a favour really.
This is honestly so cool that you tested this out, I would love to see a full fledged study on this and hopefully a movement to create environmentally friendly vinyl. If my band gets anywhere near to the size where creating vinyl is viable then I will continue your mindset, love this video and love your channel!
Fellow musician and new fan here. Damn, what a great presentation. How perfectly you stated that last bit about taking the time out of our day to listen to an album the way it's intended... sigh, I wish more people loved music in a focused manner rather than treating it like some backdrop with a "catchy beat" for their day. As for the meat and potatoes of your point... I really do hope your argument gets the attention it deserves and gains momentum with the industry. I juuuust recently started going through my dad's old vinyl collection, cleaned up and worked out the kinks on his player, and even started adding vinyl to my shopping carts online. I enjoy the experience and love having some of my favorite albums displayed in the tangible and visual means vinyl has to offer. After getting my dad's turntable up to par, I sat there and listened to records for 6 hours and loved every minute of it. Thanks again!
Vinyl is good for one thing, and one thing only: it's possible to replay it using 100% mechanical means, requiring neither electronics nor power. It's inferior in every other aspect I can think of.
I like vinyl because it’s a physical medium and it helps me connect with my music. As opposed to _buying the license_ to listen to an m4a file. Also, a lot of old music I love comes on vinyl. Russ Freeman’s Nocturnal Playground, Mint jams by Casiopea, close to the edge by Yes, My Best by Kitaro, discipline by King Crimson, all great sounding and originally mixed specifically for vinyl. Also, nothing compares to putting on Opera Sauvage and lying on the floor. dust is there sometimes, sometimes not, it’s like a little consultation that it’s a real physical representation of the music and not some nebulous file. I am a younger fellow, and have no connection to the medium nostalgia-wise. I just like it for what it is. Too bad about the part where I die
Buying digital music (not streaming) isn't buying a license though. You do get actual mp3s or wavs or flacs. Sure you're not legally allowed to distribute them to other people, but you're not really supposed to do that with vinyl either...
@@L00PdeL00P I would highly recommend CDs. I will let you be an adult, but the fact I can buy a $2 pre owned CD of an album and have its FLAC files and a physical box is astounding. Still, enjoy yourself - A former cassette collector
FWIW, you could run the video audio through Spleeter (splitter.ai) and, because the music is so quiet, almost certainly obtain (lossy compressed by RUclips) vocals without music which would (other than the lossy compresison) be of sufficient quality to sample.
The ironic thing about vinyl is how it’s become a privileged item. I’ve seen some of the rereleased vinyl of immensely popular albums and they’re priced at $38 or something ridiculous. When I was a teenager, buying a cd cost about $15-20 while buying used vinyl was anywhere between 50 cents to about $10 on the high end. A record priced at $25 was considered a fortune. While not all the vinyl was in perfect condition, a vast majority was good to VG. it was the medium for the budget music listener and it was very proletariat. Now it’s switched. As much as I like vinyl, the subscription to a music service has been a dream medium (for the most part-there are still some releases you won’t find on there) at an affordable cost. I used to dj at clubs and always preferred vinyl digital files on loud systems, but the digital files these days have vastly improved and most of the time, I can’t tell the difference if it’s a good quality file.
this is my biggest issue with it, im poor. i managed to collect a lot of great music very very cheaply, paying as much as 4$ for a record! now i cant afford to own the music, but youtube lets me listen free. remember when if you wanted to hear an album/musician you had to track down a physical copy - go to a friends house etc? the future is here.
As soon as everyone got a good quality camera on their pockets, crappy analog cameras (lomos and polaroids) became popular again just because it was more expensive. Some people enjoy the clout of throwing money at their hobbies more than the hobbies themselves.
Really appreciate this, because it's important and has a lot of truth behind it. Midway through it, I definitely was trying to figure out how to manage my modest collection. I'd love an environmentally friendly alternative if it's ever developed, but I don't know what to do with my stuff in the meantime. Some serious food for thought into the future of the "holy grail" of physical release formats. I was contemplating something similar to your handmade boxes for a release of mine, but looking back, it probably wasn't environmentally friendly either. I guess the creativity lies in the solutions of what physical care musicians can put into their art. Thanks again for the talk, Benn. Great stuff.
Very thoughtful video. I grew up during the age of vinyl and listened to thousands of hours of Music On Vinyl. I really appreciate your careful evaluation and presentation of the dangers and environmental repercussions vinyl records
Just wow! You got me thinking quite a bit and I sooo appreciate you making a stance on this and standing your ground. Absolutely inspiring and I appreciate it a lot!
I can't believe it took me as long as it did to get around to these videos. I grew up listening to The Flashbulb (I think I was about 13) and now at 25, I'm finally getting into synthesizers because of dungeon synth. These videos are top notch quality content. I never got into vinyl/records because I couldn't justify the purchase to myself, but it was a distant goal of mine, even having known some of the harsh effects on the environment. Now that I've learned about the health risks, I actually feel a bit relieved and proud to say that I don't think I'll ever buy them. MP3 v0 has been my preferred medium for music, and it's nice to have such strong encouragement to practice discipline and deny convenience for pleasure's sake, while it seems the rest of the world is twisting my arm to join the cool audiophile gang. It's also nice to embrace minimalism and watch out for my health, after spending so much time doing the exact opposite.
Thank you for presenting this information! I had no clue about how toxic the material components of vinyl are until now. I only own some vinyl records (probably around 60 to 70 albums/singles in total) and now I am really glad that I have a small apartment which has forced me into being a digital DJ that spins lossless files and 320 mp3s instead of a physical format.
Time and time again, I'll start watching one of your videos based on a premise that I don't necessarily agree with, only to come out at the end learning something extremely valuable that I was totally unaware of. I have personal issues with physical records because of the ease at which they can enable a hoarding addiction, but some of your points are far and beyond anything that I could have imagined. I love your channel and your approach to these topics!
Wow, I had no idea!! Fascinating video, thanks for sharing this information. Personally I grew up with MP3's and perfectly happy with digital myself. I have no nostalgia for vinyl and never understood what the fuss is all about. Besides, I don't have space to store everything that I listen to physically (and I listen to an awful lot) so digital is just a no-brainer. I have decent quality headphones and monitors and storage devices, and (importantly) a quiet room where I can listen undisturbed all things I am super grateful for - its taken me 15yrs to get to the position where I can have these things.
Love your videos. But parts per million matter. The risk posed by the average home vinyl collection is negligible. You will die from a home fire or slipping in the bathroom a thousand times over before you're materially affected by vinyl emissions. Unless you work in an old vinyl record storage warehouse that's constantly +100F, you're fine.
@@joshshrum2764 they're making the point that something that unlikely to happen is still far more likely to happen than you being damaged by your records
It's definitely important to understand and research the risks but not to lose perspective aswell. I think the main problem with vinyl at the moment is environmental damage rather tham the toxic chemicals. Compare those emissions to carbon monoxide from cars or even Noxides if you live in an area with low regulations. Or the amount of radiation exposure you receive while flying. Still, lead is pretty bad.
Next your going to tell me my synth is killing me! (By the way, please don’t tell me my synths are killing me because I will simply let them). This video is crazy important! Thank you thank you!
I DJ'd for three years starting around '89. I loathed lugging around records, though I love the format primarily due to the larger art-work. That said: I would NEVER go back to all the limitations of vinyl for dozens of reasons now - many of which are creative - especially if I were DJ'ing. Sooooo many better options now. Thanks for this!!
Audio quality argument: This is objectively true. Needless consumer waste argument: Couldn't agree more. Health risk argument: Your experiment does not actually test your claim (that owning vinyl records presents a measurable health risk), you are not an expert in this subject area, and making these types of claims in an era where health misinformation is so rampant is... not great! Don't mean to hate. Love the channel, but given the current climate of internet conspiracy theories causing people to do actual harm to the world (antivaxxers, 5G tower burners, US Capitol stormers), I feel obligated to call BS. I agree that it's definitely a subject that should be researched by actual scientists at some point though!
To be fair, he *did* introduce that segment by saying "I don't have a lab and I am not a scientist, but here's what I was able to do with what I have and here are the results" which is way more transparent and responsible than the problematic misinformation being spread.
@@BNLNRD He did, which is great! but there’s absolutely no scientific basis to the claim, so why make it? I see people in the comments freaking out about their vinyl records, and I could see how these sorts of things spread beyond their original source and go unchecked, get distorted, etc. If you wanted to actually determine the long term health effects of owning vinyl, you would need to look at a very large sample set of households with and without vinyl records, and determine if there is a statistically significant increase in cancer diagnoses in the households with vinyl records, while also controlling for any other variables that might affect the results. His experiment in the video does *not* test the claim, which is why I feel obligated to comment, because I think that may be lost on some folks based on the comments.
Thank you so much for covering all of this, I had so many discussions with people who would not belive me when I say the warmth of vinyl is a result of the limitations of the medium and can be reproduced on any digital file. I will add that buying records is actually good from the point of collecting and actually owning something physical. I have spent a lot of money on mp3, wav ect and I would get next to nothing for it them if I decided to stop DJing, unlike a record collection.
On the environmental side studies have proved that we emit way more co2 today with digital audio streaming than we did with vinyl when it was at its peak. The main reason for that is : the REBOUND EFFECT The more something is cheap (energetically and financially), the more we will consume of it. Sure your phone can give you acess to tons worth of records, but when people were limited phisically and financially by the cost of records they would just have a smaller collection. Then there is the longevity argument, how many hard drives can survive more than a few decades ? How many digital formats did we abandon already in audio and film ? Then there is the playback devices argument : how many times do you change your turntable, how many times did you change your smartphone ? Which one is easier to repair ? Which one requires more miniaturisation, which one will require more rare earth elements, which one will require more energy to have servers manufactured and running (in the case of streaming)...?
Good for you man! I've had the same concerns about releasing my music on vinyl... as much as it was once a dream of mine. I'm perfectly fine with people listening to my digitalized, compressed music on earbuds, um... closed back headphones.
Great video, I think it's probably a good idea to respect vinyl as an old medium. Going to a small club and watching a DJ masterfully mixing classics on vinyl will always be a joyful experience for me (god I miss those nights). There's a century of music on those discs so we should cherish the ones that already exist but moving forward I agree that digital audio makes more sense. Loosing Record Stores however is a conundrum I don't have an answer for :(
With the money you save from not buying records, you could get some UPVC windows and vinyl flooring in your kitchen. Maybe get the bathroom refitted with some new plastic pipes. In Britain in particular, PVC is incredibly common. It's basically in everyone's home, whether it contains records or not. For decades, the NHS used bags made of vinyl for storing blood. Think about that the next time your wrap your lips around a plastic bottle.
Very interesting video. To ask another question along these lines - why collect modular synths or any gear when you can create music in the box? Surely that's safer and more environmentally friendly, right?
analog synths consume less energy and lasts longer than any computer, ideally you can use one synth for ages, because repairing old stuff is easy. so no need to recycle, it is more environment friendly :) but personally I would choose analog stuff only for the sound, plugins are not even close.
@@SkinnyVampiress But you'll be using a computer regardless. You don't need to use analog synths. More environmentally friendly to use what you already have rather than consume more.
@@flower5185 I didn't expect someone will reply :) well... first, I write and record music without a computer. But I use it anyway in day to day life, but it's more than 10 years old laptop and it isn't really capable of running modern DAWs with all necessary vsti instruments.. If I was using the pc to write music, I would need an upgrade, new PC. Second - using analog synth is like playing a guitar, can't really replace it with something virtual. Having a real thing is just more inspiring and encourages you to spend more time creating new sounds, exploring sonic possibilities, etc. Instant feedback from every slight parameter tweak or even from change in room temperature, it's very sensitive and almost alive. Analog feels completely different. It is an expirience, and your music always depends on what you are doing and how. We are human beings after all.. And I am not even talking about the "analog sound" right now.
@@SkinnyVampiress I have no problem with you using physical gear. I have a couple pieces as well, I understand the appeal. I was just pointing out that analog gear, modular synths, etc are not really more environmentally friendly than using a computer.
Because I work in a specific retail environment where every day I'm bombarded by customers with nutty pseudo-scientific claims about various health threats from vague "toxins" I immediately felt my skepticism meter click to high when I started watching this video. It's not that I doubt that PVC is toxic, or that any number of things in our manufactured synthetic environment are toxic, and your experiment with the air quality meter definitely showed something, but I'm just not sure what exactly. I agree with you that I'd love to see a rigorous peer-reviewed study of what the actual short and long term health threats specifically from vinyl records are. Anyway, I have no vinyl. I lost my entire collection decades ago when I was evicted from some drug-infested flophouse, and I've never had any urge to go back to them. Digital media is just better. I do think vinyl albums and packaging are kind of cool, and as a musician I totally get the desire and need to provide something physical to actually sell to people. I totally agree with you though that there is a world of opportunity to make stuff much more original and creative than a generic vinyl disc in cheaply printed cardboard sleeve to offer as a collectible to fans. These days vinyl seems like mostly a generic hipster fetish to waste a lot of money on, and they're much more trouble than they're worth. And possibly poisonous.
@@CT-ho6siAnother commenter theorized that the meter could've been detecting off-gassing from the brand new turntable, rather than from the discs themselves.
"Digital media is just better"-- let's quit pretending the word 'digital' means 'perfect' because it's extremely-ignorant to pretend like all digital music files are 'so much better' when they aren't. The average 'digital music' sold online is not even CD quality (sometimes not even cassette quality), and a lot of CDs aren't as good as the original vinyl. There isn't a magic bullet for any of this, and the 'potential' of the digital format does not at all represent the reality of how it's actually sold--- badly compressed to the point of flatness, and with lots of digital artifacts. Digital music is solely more-convenient, but there's no reason to assert it's inherently 'better' than anything.
Benn, thank you for taking the time to bring this together. Your videos are always engaging, well-researched, and beautifully executed. However, this video is a case of half the picture being painted in oil and the other half in crayon. There is absolutely no question that CDs and digital audio have the capability of sounding better. The bottleneck is that a $200 turntable will always sound better than a $200 CD player or $200 DAC. In my experience you need to spend more money on the digital side to get the results you are talking about. This is to do with the fact that vinyl has decades of R&D behind it which has now mostly reached consumer-level. But certainly you are 100% correct here in principle and I say this as someone who has nearly 5,000 records. The other side of your argument, about the cancer-inducing properties of vinyl really spooked me. As a result I went and purchased a Temtop LKC-1000S+ air monitor and set it up in my small study in which I work which contains my record collection racked up against the walls. I played records all day with the device first at the desk where I work and then later beside the record player (see photos here: photos.app.goo.gl/VjQ4eYC2b65MxTap8 ). I could not reproduce the alarming levels which appeared in your video. I wonder if either there was something wrong with your monitor OR whether perhaps you cleaned the vinyl with lighter fluid [something I have never done]. If your video was a prank I must congratulate you on a brilliant job. And also to agree with you that the ecological impact of vinyl is definitely a topic for conversation. In the video you suggest that people might like to take their own measurements - well now someone has - so certainly I would appreciate this being a featured comment so that people who visit this page can get a more balanced picture before they start sealing their record collections in landfill sites ;-D Matthew Ingram www.woebot.com
Been actively listening to albums since about 1982, and I've never really understood the whole vinyl thing, beyond the bigger art work and cool poster inserts, which are cool.
I think it's the intentionality of it. The closing point about taking a break and so forth struck me. There's a physical interaction with the music rather than searching a file name in a digital library and listening to a single track and moving on.
It takes more effort to make them sound good, but if you like to sit down and put your head between the speakers and listen to an entire album with no distractions, records are well worth the effort. CDs are good too but sometimes the vinyl version of things actually can be better, and I'm saying this with specific examples in my collection, not from a casual 'records are always better' thing. It's not about being cool, it's about listening to music.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I started DJing in 1991 when mp3's / CD's didn't exist. I then went through the whole Serato / Pioneer CDJ800 thru to 1000 CD age, then the Mp3 stick and then finally 2 years ago I went back to vinyl. Not because I think its "cool" but because I genuinely believe it has a few up sides. a) its expensive - this makes me think 10 times if i really NEED that track or not. This had lead to my music selection being distilled in a good way - I play less generic shite that sounded good on the first listen. b) I'm a very visual person. With vinyl the cover / way the record looks instantly tells me what it is. Also I can "earmark" records i want to play 3 - 5 songs later by pulling them out slightly. Therefore in my mind I'm always thinking ahead. When I played Mp3's i came home after every gig thinking Damn, i forgot to play x,y,z etc. c) Because there is only a finite amount of records u can take to a gig you have to THINK about what u want to play before you go. As opposed to a lot of people i hear out now who always have their entire record collection with them on a stick and have stopped bothering to prepare. d) The B sides - there are SO many good tunes that I would never have bought on beatport because they only sound good on the 5th listen. B sides are a gem and u'll never have discovered them if you didn't have the record. e) You DO support the independant record labels. Cinthie who owns Beste Modus / Crystal grooves etc has thanked me personally for BUYING her stuff. it DOES make a difference. The "vinyl resurgence" is thankfully not limited to bullshit repressed of GnR's use your illusions albums. So, as you can see there are other sides to this. :)
@@tz4601 Yeah but most people don't, so that's not really a point, just like how people like to casually say 'digital is better' which would be true if it weren't for the majority of online digital music files being badly compressed and having massive digital artifacts. Lots of potential out there isn't being realized by the people who are claiming to tout its greatness.
There is nothing stopping you from printing 1 vinyl, record it back digitally, enhance the bass that were lost and release a record with the vinyl sound. Eric Valentine did this and showing it on his youtube channel :)
I had the same reaction as you to the particulates, but the formaldehyde threw me at first. Phenol formaldehyde binders are a large fraction - several percent by mass - of the chipboard table the turntable is sitting on.
One of many pieces of evidence that this dude is just trying to make money off the ignorance of the 'digital better, vinyl bad' crowd-- the know-nothings who want to feel smart for taking the easy route and pretend it's 'better'.
Dude's making clickbait, not informing people about what kind of sound they can achieve. Vinyl is difficult to deal with but the results are frequently head-and-shoulders better sound than CD, regardless of whatever numbers anybody wants to cite, as though music lovers are 'listening to the numbers' in a real sense when they're not.
@@jamescarter3196 tbf you're wrong. What you could say, alternatively, is that you enjoy the warmth associated with the noise and distortion associated with vinyl playback.
CDs are PVC as well. I'm all for re-writable MicroSD or creative minimalist thumb drives with MP3, OGG, or FLAC files. I have a sneaking feeling that all media is toxic even tape... live shows are likely even more so. Thanks for the research and videos. Please don't put that detector near any electronic instruments, guitar pedals, or computers. I'll just have to take up gardening.
Haha yeah I just got a couple of Vermona boxes and they smell like a computer from the 90's even when they're not turned. I don't think that's a good thing haha.
CDs are actually not PVC but the power cord insulation of your CD player. And that of the interconnects, the drain pipes in your basement and probably your windows and the siding on your house. This video is just scaremomgering.
Are CD collections better? Maybe In the 80s, vinyl records were replaced by CDs, which promised durability and better sound quality. CDs were made of layered polycarbonate and aluminium, which has slightly less environmental impact than PVC, and are manufactured using less materials than records. However, CDs can’t be recycled because they’re made of mixed materials that are difficult and uneconomical to separate into their component parts for recycling. CDs were also encased in fragile polycarbonate cases, which, despite being a single material, aren’t widely recycled. They also aren’t as indestructible as many people first thought, which meant many ended up in landfills.
Love the honesty and truth ^^ Been here sinse Red extensions of me ! Awesome videos man ! Computers making music reallly helped put stuff into perspective :D
I must've been asleep whilst all this was happening. I sold off all my vinyl seven or eight years ago (not a massive hardship as I hadn't even played most of it for the previous decade) before going to work overseas and vowed never to buy another piece of vinyl. I only broke that vow once, and it was to purchase a close friend's debut release. Every piece of music I've bought since then has been a digital release. I listen via streaming services too, but I still buy music that I love. I buy t-shirts, mugs, other merch I'll use day-to-day, sometimes even sheet music or whatever. But not vinyl, since hearing about the horrific impacts on the environment. What really pisses me off is that the same ridiculous nostalgia has now made it's way to cassette tapes as well. What the actual...? Cassettes sounded like absolute garbage when they first appeared, they were always just a convenience and we just put up with their shortcomings as a result. It would be very interesting to know if similarly damaging health effects are present in cassettes as with vinyl, considering that they seem to be equally impossible to recycle.
@@itdepends604 REALLY good quality compact cassette tape and noise reduction could rival CD in quality. Techmoan's "Cassettes: better than you don't remember" demonstrates this. Problem is, CDs gave you perfect quality reproduction for pennies. A CD is literally just metal pressed onto polycarbonate with a label printed on top. The tape and noise reduction Techmoan used would have been rather pricey. In fact... the reason why optical media hasn't died out completely yet is purely a function of how extremely cheap it is to press discs.
Since cassettes were made by the same petrochemical companies that thrived using by-products of the oil industry, I presume they are equally hazardous, like anything made of old plastic. On the positive side, I was a kid that grew up licking Lego bricks in a cot painted with lead paint and I'm somehow still alive, but barely.
I'm glad you've made this video. I've been a househead since the early 90s, and collected vinyl for a large part of my life, but was extremely happy to move to digital downloads from Juno, Beatport, Stompy et al. I do love my old vinyl, and wanted to release my own record someday, but now think it'd be ethically dubious at best, and I'd literally be contributing to even further damage to the environment. I wish they could make them out of something environmentally friendly (though you may be about to address that - I haven't finished the video yet!...).
I am surprised we havn't had a new material to press records into invented. Something that works the same by making a pick up vibrate. But doesn't get damaged as easy.
The mechanical principle involved in generating vibrations creates a lot of stress in the materials; that is the reason it was abandoned in favor of optical media and magnetic storage. There isn´t an economic incentive in getting back to obsolete analog storage methods except for a niche nostalgia market, thus no new developments. Even if they found a new material that could resist the mechanical stress without generating toxic particles or gases, that inherent resistance would make it a nightmare to recycle. Maybe an analod record that gets its grooves scanned by a laser with a protective caddy?
Agreed. The internet causes sticky & biased webs to form in the brain and clogs the free thinking impulse. Worse yet, the internet lives in big data centers that gobble tons of electricity to run all the servers (which in turn require giant chillers on the roof). So lame. As an IT ex-pat, I simply accept that we are a very young species, progress (whatever that might be) takes a long time, and technology in itself might just be an evolutionary dead end. If you check your human chauvinism at the door, who's to say that ants haven't found the secret to true happiness long ago.
I kinda wish we could see a resurgence of CD’s tbh. CD collections are pretty cool and probably will last you longer than Vinyl will, however I can’t confirm the 2nd part. It’ll be interesting to see how the integrity of CD’s last compared to vinyl over the course of time.
There's some concern over "disc rot" for pressed discs but it's less common than people think. CDs just as a fact of being digital have greater integrity long-term since small imperfections in the disc don't destroy the data until they become large, glaring imperfections, and at that point it's a matter of cutouts that last a couple seconds.
Digitized vinyl rips are criminally underrated, with a good player or system it's a great way to hear the vinyl experience, the texture, warmness, etc...I love my 24 bit rips of classic psychedelic music
As someone born after vinyl was a common way to listen to music, I genuinely didn't know they're commonly made from ... that. I loved to listen to vinyl at my grandparent's house when I was a kid. We had snack bowls DIYd from old records. I have fond memories of them, but I guess I won't miss them.
![Should We Hate Spotify? [An Objective View From A Professional Musician]](/img/1.gif)
Maybe the magic of vinyl was actually just us tripping on all the volatile organic compounds?
Maybe the real lsd was the records we sniffed along the way
that explains pink Floyd so much, headphones on sniffing the trippy vapours in the early 80s , shit
well, old books (that smell) can have some mould that is psychoactive (and toxic), same with printer ink, so....
Must be something else. I tried this and got no rise in TVOCs. I'm almost certain it was his new record player.
@@CliffordMiller well how come the level isn't rising when the record player is running by itself?
Before you comment:
This isn't political. This isn't me bitching (follow me on Twitter if you want to see some world class bitching). In the video, repeatedly, I've clearly stated that I'm the first to be judged in vinyl collecting/producing, and that my goal is not to shame people for using vinyl, but encourage artists to reconsider it until vinyl plants even remotely consider the environmental damage and god forbid spend a few bucks to use a safer and more recyclable polymer. This is a novelty hobby in 2020, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect vinyl to be held up to the same environmental standards as virtually every other consumer product we interact with.
In the 5 months since I uploaded this video, over a dozen artists (some indy, some quite notable) and 2 labels have contacted me saying that they're either scrapping or delaying vinyl releases due to these concerns. That might not be a big number, but it's 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars that vinyl manufacturers won't receive until they can offer a better solution. That is AMAZING news, why?
I created this video not to shame people for collecting or releasing vinyl. Very few of us knew about these issues because very few people have researched or publicized environmental concerns. But now, those who have reacted to this either by changing their habits, or even sharing the video/information, have created actual tangible financial incentive for vinyl manufacturers to innovate and give consumers an improved, safe product.
If you're a vinyl collector, artist, label, or even record shop, I hope you can see this video and the early results of it as great news. A technological upgrade in vinyl will stimulate an industry that is economically hanging on by novel threads. Peace!
Test an old record...this don't scientific at.
Test a new record then Test it a week later then a month later.
Why didn't you test your room that has your record collection in it?
Why do non scientists post stuff like this on youtube acting like its valid?
Yes plastics are creepy with chemicals but dude you're not a scientist...maybe a beat scientist but...
Could you add a bibliography for your sources for this video? I'm interested in learning more on this.
@@paticusmaximus12 Also needs to use a lab-evaluated meter. I've done my own tests with a lab-evaluated meter and there are literally no changes in particulate matter or TVOC when playing a record -- new or old. I could see perhaps some particulate changes if playing a particularly dirty record that was throwing dust into the air but I'm testing w/ clean records.
Check out Deepgrooves in the Netherlands for climate concious record manufacturing, there are people doing it, you just aren't looking for it......
@@CT-ho6si chances are, it was the new turntable. I get dizzy just by looking at those plastic monstrosities in the store.
"The sacred thing is not the disk or the turntable, it's us music lovers taking a break from our hectic days, and just closing our eyes, relaxing, and actually listening to the music."
I mean you can do that with digital files too. Just fire up foobar2000, sit back, and listen to your music without doing anything else.
@CockatooDude That's exactly what the quote is getting at.
@@runnersdialzero1244 I know that's what the quote was getting at, but it was also implying that vinyl is the only way to do it.
@@CockatooDude you're contradicting yourself in this statement
@@okordenador Yeah admittedly I am a bit. I guess I can chock it up to misunderstanding the quote.
I spent a whole year avoiding this video because I was afraid of the truth. I was finally able to confront it today, and I want to thank you, Benn, for standing up and saying something that you knew people didn't want to hear. I didn't either, because of how much I cherish my vinyl collection, but my concern for the health of our planet eventually won and I decided it would be better to know the truth. I hope other vinyl lovers feel the same way and demand a safer material for the future of record manufacturing. Thanks again Benn, and keep on doing what you're doing. It's a real rare thing to find someone so dedicated to finding the truth in the age of "alternative facts". Stay safe!
Do you have a pc?
Why "demand safer material" for vinyl instead of just moving on from it? The format has been obsolete for four decades. Enough already.
The environmental impact is negligible. If we'd get rid of vinyls, we'd still have the same unsustainable society and way of life, only without vinyl records. Same applies to most feel-good solutions we have for the environment. The problem is a world that requires a billion cars driving around. The problem is every single household item and consumer good having global supply chains. The problem is every societal function requiring a huge amount of energy slaves. We are talking about huge, structural flaws plaguing our modern society and its most inherent functions, not a set amount of individual single issues that will magically save the planet once solved.
That being said, finding a new, more sustainable material for vinyl records doesn't hurt anyone.
@@goldbullet50 Agreed. At the end of the day the entire problem is capitalism.
@@goldbullet50 Yeah so lets do nothing. Thats the answer surely.
After going through the formats of cassettes, then CDs, then briefly thinking I wanted a vinyl collection (that took up too much space), then back to CDs....then finally digitizing my collection...let's just say that when I want a physical product from a band, it's a dang tshirt. And then I can be a walking billboard for my favorite musicians.
I’d still say get a cassette or CD. There’s Gonna be a world like The Book of Eli where digital content just won’t exist, I couldn’t imagine waking up to the internet just being gone, all my collections would cease to exist
CDs are coated in BPA unfortunately
@@polaris911 what is that? why is it bad for us? couldnt find a clear answer on the internet also do you have a source for this?
@@arisumegoit’s a chemical that was in the news about 20-25 years ago when lots of kids’ plastic cutlery and crockery was found to leech it into foods. It’s pretty dangerous to eat, not sure if being on a CD is a problem (or even true).
To me it reminds me of people who don’t want plastic water pipes due to potential leeching (reasonable) who then go on to act like PVC window frames are toxic and poisoning everyone in the building (dubious af).
THIS IS THE WAY
Can't wait to watch this segment of "Hidden Killers of the 20's Home" in 80 years. if I live that long...
Meh, we won't.
Liked for you username
@@jonytubeHe has more chance than you for sure.
Ok now this might be the first time in a while that I've been confronted with an idea that I literally never thought about, and now that I've been educated on the health risks and environmental implications of vinyl, I have no idea what to do with this information. Great video.
I sleep in the room where I keep my vinyl records, and I hated this video with all of my heart. Thumbs up though.
Same here.
Hahahaha right!!!!
Yup! F’n rides ridiculous!
I just hope it's not (that) toxic while standing in shelves in it's cover.
Same... Not sure what to do now.
I found you last night re: Behringer controversy (because when there's controversy it's always recommended by youtube) but I've spent most of the morning just listening to this stuff while I go about my day. This channel is fucking cool.
You should check out his music!
Honestly the reason I buy Vinyl (not often, but sometimes), is that Vinyl covers look so much better (mostly due to size and not being plastic) than CDs. If they sold CDs in oversized Paper Covers I would gladly buy that instead.
actually Aphex Twin's new project came as a big ol' cover/popup thing with a CD inside, pretty cool
Posters could do the trick too.
I wish there was a Vinyl size poster format that artists (rather than sketchy eBay pirates) sold. They're such good looking things.
Wait, so you're telling me, I could have "Killed by David Bowie LPs" on my gravestone, and it would not be a lie?
Honestly this ain’t a bad idea!
**takes record out of mouth**
Awww man this was not a good video to watch during lunchtime...
I don’t know about you, man, but I only eat my sandwiches off CDs.
CD Bagel
My peepee hurts so bad right now. Just started collecting vinyl last year and have some of my granddads from the 60s. Maybe I’ll just listen to them until I die which will be soon.
The VOC meter experiment’s pretty solid but you needed to remove the turntable as a variable. If pvc off-gassing is the culprit then the meter should go off with only an LP and no turntable present. If the meter alarm is going off whenever the turntable is set on “play” then you have to address the possibility that the VOCs are being produced by the turntable itself, like from the belt or another internal component. Setting good control scenarios (meter + LP only, and meter + turntable only) would eliminate that doubt
It was the turntable. I tried this with a meter. I couldn't reproduce it with my old table but with a newer one I can reproduce it a little without a record.
he tested the turntable without the record, but it seems that he indeed missed the turntable playing without a record. it would be nice to test this.
why should the turntable gas, there is just a motor running...
@@qpidnyx3329 abrasion from rubber belts
@@qpidnyx3329 it's made of plastic, and has various plastic components.
I’m in the process of starting a label and artist support with my friend and this is the elephant in the room I’ve been thinking about a lot. I was only concerned about the carbon footprint associated with production and shipping, this has been quite a shock.
Exceptionally eloquent argument man, you deserve respect not abuse for making such a big sacrifice. I also watched your video on Behringer, very eloquent and insightful.
Thank you for being brave in your work 🙏🏻 I’ll will look for your music.
"Yeah, but, you're gay" *I dunno man, seems like a pretty strong argument to me*
ooh la la
(under breath) fuck they're good ...
I'd like your comment but it's at 69 so I am prohibited by law probably
Don’t hate me for saying this, but it’s because only gay, and bi people enjoy Vinyl’s.
In this grim world, it can only be an argument *against* vinyl.
Dying because my record collection poisoned me would be such a poetic ending. But I also eat garbage and don't exercise so something else is going to kill me way before a bunch of David Bowie albums.
i would say just sit further away from the player
Feel better brother
@@torontotonto6189 Or right next to it. I tried this and TVOCs didn't move. It was probably his new record player that he took right out the box. It was probably heating up and releasing factory chemicals which it'll eventually stop doing.
@@deniwastaken It's hard to test at home and isn't the shock factor of this particular video.
There probably are detrimental environmental impacts and they should be addressed. I'd be curious how they stack up to the impacts of the devices we're putting music on.
Sure you could get a ton of music on an iPhone but what horrors are inflicted on the world to create that? The servers to store and deliver that music? All the infrastructure in between?
If you buy even 1 dedicated music device, how many vinyls would it take to have an equivalent environmental impact?
I'd wager vinyl is barely a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things but we need proper studies to find out. This aspect of the debate is also only applicable to purchases of new vinyl as we can't change the impacts of pre-existing records.
@@deniwastaken Thats because "environmental" arguments which attack people in The US/Europe/Japan etc are entirely moot points when China and India are contributing vastly more to the environmental problem than all of them combined. If people actually cared they would focus on where it will actually matter. Reducing the impact of an already minimal part of the overall contribution is meaningless.
Optimal Media makes records from 100% recycled material (re-vinyl), and there’s also DeepGrooves and others that are trying to make the process more environmentally friendly also (avoiding heavy metals, using injection molding instead of pressing for lower energy use, etc.), not to mention environmentally friendly, recycled packaging and carbon offsets.
On the environmental side, recycling something does not necessarily make it more environmentally friendly. It partially ameliorates the original damage (arguably) but you are a) still not guaranteeing that the vinyl will be properly disposed of when the recycled version reaches its end of life and b) expending energy to create the new product.
While different manufacturing materials may help in the future, it is still highly unlikely that the expenditures associated with a physical product versus a digital one can be bridged.
this is awesome! thanks for sharing !
@@Seamalicous reusing instead of recycling, meaning second hand vinyl and second hand turntables are the way to go. ofcourse, quality is key; not all 20 year old turntables will run smoothly, but there is one brand that does. (sadly prices skyrocketed when discontinued - now resurrected with a simlar price problem ) And not to be superfluous when the argument has been used before, but it's important to note that music in the cloud is about as environmentally sane as driving an electric car on coal-electricity.
@@Seamalicous Also maybe recycled records are even more toxic?
@lucky luk9 what is this magical thinking. You've seriously never seen a pile of discarded vinyls post moving? Besides, hard drives and flash drives have perfectly usable materials leftover that can be salvaged after the fact and serve far more uses than just holding a spitful of songs, vinyl records have terrible recycling potential outside of just making more vinyl records.
If you really wish to avoid the cloud because you legitimately think the massive infrustracture behind it that powers the modern internet is in anyway stressed by accomodating the extremely light files that bring music to you, you can do what most people without unlimited data plans already do and just press the little "download" button that keep the songs on your device after a single stream, incredible!
If you want to support the artist, just about all of them have a donation link or a digital good you can purchase to pay your dues and then you don't even have to create landfill filling, hope the advice helps
Bro, I Iiterally have my whole collection beside my bed. YIKES
Meh, plenty people have vinyl flooring in their bedroom.
Living with plastics is part of modern life.
@@QoraxAudio Yeah plastic is everywhere :D I put my records and my vinyl player in another room instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
relax - it's fake news - will get lots of hits though i 'm sure
@@jwdewdney6757 And the round earth is fake news.
He cited scientific sources to make this video, that should be enough to prove it real.
@@QoraxAudio not all plastic is the same though.
While this Is pretty cool I’m simply built different and will not allow them to affect me
Dwight?
it's merely a skill issue
Definitely makes you think. I'm all for ditching pvc in exchange for a recyclable alternative. Side note, "arboreal" is one of the best albums of all time. Cheers!
You misspelled Kirlian Selections.
@@protoian9353 It's totally Arboreal. But both are fantastic.
@@protoian9353 You misspelled Girls Suck But You Don't
Nicholas Degges
I'm willing 2 bet Hemp could b an answer
That's exactly what I've been saying; hemp-based bioplastic is the future. Heck, hemp-based anything, really.
Yes I've played vinyl... No I didn't inhale.
Between him and those dipshits claiming roast dinner smell is poisonous, I don't know whose teeth I'd like to kick in more !!!
if he's not lying & cares so much, why doesn't he have a 'link below' on how to get one of those meters? Also, his record collection is in his house also.
Classic!!
dude thats a haiku
@@MrDustpile uhmmmmmm okayy-ish you go have fun with your cancer
Y’all just send me your records then
After watching this I bought an air quality detector and couldn’t replicate these results. I played records next to it and stacked them up in a similar way and got no increase in HCHO or TVOC or pm2.5 or pm10 it stayed within ‘good’ levels. I played old records from the 60s, 70s and 80s and recent records I even played Dopesmoker by Sleep and no increase.
Nobody could. Those air quality detectors are very unreliable.
If you really want the polyvinyl stank, your gonna need to listen to Mr Squarepusher and feed your vinyl weird things. Or perhaps some fucked up bong-ra riddims or some banged up industrial insanity from Alex Empire. The music must make the equipment angry, and then the poison emerges. Only breakcore is capable of warping the air.
Fucked up chemistry needs fucked up beats.
Hey, dont blame me, its the law.
Thanks for going out of your way to test the claims of someone trying to push his assumptions on everyone. Nearly all of the things he says in this video have viable counterarguments, such as the new IKEA table he's wafting air up from with each tester freakout. The process and preservative chemicals used in the "recycled wood product" that makes that table possible and affordable will trigger all of those alarms, but needs his record or body movement to stir the air first. I immediately suspected that this trick would be employed when he talked about sealing the room as carefully as he - actually didn't - but simply caused the air to be more or less still.
Nearly every point he makes is a quick and easy debunk, and mostly using examples of everyday products that have the same criteria as his target object.
The key takeaway from this video should have been, or simply included with emphasis: "Indoor air is generally unhealthy. Along with everything else in your house, vinyl records also contribute to poor air quality in your home. Ensuring that your living space has good fresh air exchange is important to respiratory and overall health. "
But that's as boring as a statement from the government health agencies that he cites for clout, while pumping the volume on his bullshit cause, which only contributes to an overall reduction in the mental health of anyone willing to listen to him talk about shit he doesn't understand.
Vinyl is cancerous though and horrible for the environment.
@@sircolt8184 So are the multitude of things you used to type and relay that statement. The people who assembled those things, are likely either still working with exposure-related health issues, or already dead at a young age. Yet, you don't think about these things when you consume the uncountable objects in your life. Ask yourself why you focus your energy on this one thing, and who stands to gain from your oblivious service?
(Me looking deeply into my record collections unblinking eyes while watching this video) "guess ill die then"
dude thats a haiku
@@XenonOrion nah
@@XenonOrion
Bro they’re not a haiku is a poem with the format of
5 syllables
7 syllables
5 syllables
Like this:
Oh, my aching back
Might as well call workman’s comp
It’s thrown out again
Your videos have gone into so much more deep material than I thought when I first found your channel. I love it.
If there were considerable health risks to having old vinyl around, I would expect there to be corresponding health problems for long time record store owners (especially ones with large used inventory).
Thinking about the proprietors of records in the hundreds of record stores I've stopped in across the country, the majority of the owners have been older enthusiasts who have been exposed to high concentrations of record collections for years without any significant health issues.
I don't think the relatively small collection in my house is going to pose any significant health risk. Possibly placing the air quality sensor more than a few inches from the record would allow the PVOC to disperse to a more reasonable concentration.
One thing left out of the video in favour of vinyl is the physical interaction with the music. The time commitment to selecting what you want to spend the next 15 to 20 minutes doing keeps me involved as a listener. When I have a playlist of endless music available, it starts to just wash over me and become part of the background. I much prefer the engagement with the music that I enjoy while playing records.
He's mostly using a really old tactic from the times of the Bible.. politicians use it all the time.. it's called fear mongering! Literally everybody before 1990 grew up with Vinyl records in their house or even in their room. I'm not debating the toxicity of Vinyl but I bet that air quality changes with just the things in the room. If you bring a plastic bottle into your house and put that meter next to it, it'll probably do the same thing. lol.
I also like that it’s physical. I don’t even need electricity to find a way to hear what’s on a record. It’s a legitimate archival medium. File formats, Chips, all that stuff changes and has its own drawbacks. I don’t think vinyl should be treated like a mass market commodity (and if you buy it from Walmart you’re kind of an asshole). I only buy records I already know I love, none of it is or ever will be trash unless I die.
@@AMetalheadsJourney Different kinds of plastics there..
I like this comment
I’ve worked in record stores for years, and dug through a lot of collections, and when I talked to others that did this, we all knew what it meant when you’d feel sick after looking through a lot of boxes. Is it mold? Feeling tired? It makes me wonder, but also is just a way to point out the environmental cost of manufacturing vinyl.
But he doesn’t leave that out. It’s specifically addressed at the end of the video, and I agree. I also smoke, even though I know it’s bad for me. I just like the feeling.
About the test you did, there are two important variables (in my opinion) that you didn't address. First, your location (or the air monitor's) in the room relative to the turntable. I suppose the further away from the turntable you get, the more diluted the particles get in the air, and thus less of a risk. The second is the dust cover. I always have mine down while playing a record to keep dust from settling on it. But it works the other way around too: it prevents these particles from leaving. I'm quite confident that the dust cover more often than has enough static energy to hold the small particles, thus only polluting the inside of the cover.
I can't argue with the fact that it would be interesting to see a propper, peer reviewed study on the subject.
Static aside, when you open the dust cover to change the record, a puff of more particle dense air will go straight to your face....
I'm actually just getting into some base-level record collecting. The thing is, I don't do it out of some perception that the audio is superior. I just like the artwork and that putting on the record feels like more of an experience to add to the music. I agree that digital audio is superior, and yes, I could put on Spotify and just listen to an album all the way through, but there's something I can't quite explain that feels good about putting a record on and just sitting there, listening to the audio all the way through and having to get up to flip the disc. I don't get the people that spaz out when they hear criticisms of the format, though.
Same. And I have never held onto a digital format. Things get corrupted. Storage formats change. Licenses to digital content aren't exactly ours even when we pay for them. Vinyl I will have until I die and then can be sold to someone else or passed on. All of that said, I'm definitely down with changes made to manufacturing to make people who make and buy vinyl safer. And to make it more green. Good thing is all of that is happening. Also, very quick research reveals great counterpoints to it being harmfully toxic to listeners. For one, the monitor he uses is right by the record where concentration would be highest. Typically, you would keep a monitor for personal air safety on yourself with a main monitor mounted in the room. But it is good to know I need to not keep my face right by my player.
Yes, what this guy said.
This video feels like an Android vs iPhone debate lol, yeah digital is technically higher spec sound but vinyl is a better experience (in my personal opinion)
why not just buy cds
Vinyl is merchandise nowadays.
Is vinyl the new smoking?
*vaping
@@XenonOrion How could an old thing become the newer version of a newer thing?
you haven't seen the news?
@@XenonOrion bruh. fucking nailed it.
@@enragedlemon3115 _that's old news bruh_
I have read through a bunch of comments and here's my message to anyone freaking out about their records (but I'm just a guy on the internet not a scientist so take this with a grain of salt):
First off, YOU WILL PROBABLY BE FINE. Just because your risk is increased, doesn't mean you will get it. Besides, there are so many products made of PVC chances are there are bigger risks than your vinyl collection. And if it helps put you at ease, the test he did was with an open record player that the meter was right next to. As long as you have a dust cover and don't sit over it, you won't be quite that exposed to it. There are also questions of verification when it comes to what type of meter he used, and that it could have been over-sensitive (though I can't say for sure if it was or wasn't accurate, I know practically nothing about air monitoring equipment). So don't freak out, you'll most likely be fine.
That being said, the environmental impact is still a problem. These plastics are clearly not good for humans or the ecosystem, and there are many more recyclable materials that can be used. Some record companies have employed using recyclable methods. I've even seen pressings made out of recycled coke bottles. We should be fighting for a change in how records are made, because it really wouldn't be that hard to make them that way.
But realistically if records were dangerous enough that you would have to worry about your own health, record store owners would be dropping dead left and right. Some of the record store owners in the comments talked about how after emptying boxes of them for too long they usually "get dizzy", which means they clearly got a hefty amount of PVC to the point of being able to feel it. Despite this, there hasn't been a boom in record store owner deaths or we would have most certainly have heard something about it. Is that bad for them? Yes of course, but if that amount of exposure doesn't kill a substantial amount of them, chances are your limited exposure won't cause enough damage to concern yourself over. So don't worry, you're ok, just try to buy less PVC and support the movement to get rid of it if you can.
Yeah and what about the production of and waste caused by electronics to play the digital files? Isn't that more toxic than vinyl production.
@@mulangira79 when compared to usefulness and considering scale, my gut very much says no, it’s not comparable, vinyl is worse by far.
Editing to add why: electronics serve way more functions for us than vinyl records, and that “value” feels pretty important to consider when discussing toxicity. Cancer treatments can be toxic, but the benefit increases the value. Also the fact that records can’t be recycled or even thrown in the trash says a lot. There’s environmental cost to making a computer, but that computer can then go on to make tons of music, or get used in a library, or at a workplace, and even with obsolescence I’d argue the computer “accomplishes” far more than the record. Not to mention electronics recycling, refurbishment, etc. With the record, it’s environmentally costly to make, remains environmentally costly throughout it’s involuntarily infinite lifespan (due to lack of disposal opportunities), and serves an EXTREMELY narrow purpose.
But hey what do I know, I’m a rando with a displeasure for “whatabout x” as a distraction tactic, not an environmental scientist.
@@Feverm00n I guess the way to know what is more toxic would be to quantify how many vinyl records and record players vs. how many music playing digital consumer items and production tools make up our landfills. Im not claiming a side here I just see the logic is not exactly accurate. Both methods are inevitably toxic once they get to the landfill, but realistically how much gets to the landfill. Tech is designed with obsolescence in mind. Tech is made with the end point preconceived as being a landfill or e waste recycling (which a whole other polluted can of worms i.e. mercury and lead from circuit boards being dumped into rivers, lithium batteries etc... ).Vinyl was invented without a thought of it ever leaving the shelf.
The records won't kill me as fast as the drugs and they go together so well I might as well embrace it
Vinylally someone gets it.
Vinyl records are the cigars of music; 10% Taste, 10% Source, 10% Ritual, 70% cancer.
What's up just currently having a panic attack while watching this hbu guys
Don't worry about it, the unit he's using for measurement is cheap and unreliable, you can find them on Amazon under different brand names but they're all mass-produced gadgets from China with no certification or calibration documentation. I've done the same test with a lab-calibrated air quality meter and there is literally no change when I place it near vinyl. I've tested new vinyl, old vinyl, there's nothing.
@@CT-ho6si I'm sure many people with large vinyl collections would appreciate if you were to publish your methodology and results on a site like Medium. 🙏
@@TehAwesomer Thanks for the comment, I've been considering making my own video -- I'm curious why you mentioned Medium, can you let me know why you prefer that site?
@@CT-ho6si I just meant "a blog post," if it were 2010 I would have said "Blogger." Your own video would also be good.
I saw this right after I ordered a big collection of vinyls so me tooooooooooooo
Thanks for this and all the time you take to get things right. You are such a rare combination of awesome things: Music, Technology, Objectivity, Science, Rational Environmental Conservation, and, feeding my Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
No objectivity. PVC is everywhere. Microscopic particles... It's all around us... As if vinyl makes a difference, cool it with the paranoia and get a life.
Artwork and musical art combined. Even better when the lyrics are written on the inner sleeve
The reason I like vinyl is 3 fold. I like the aesthetic, the *large* album covers, the unique and distinct grooves or in some cases actual qualities of the vinyl material. Another reason is that they are uniquely tactile; go to the shelf, look for an album, pick out the album, take it out of the sleeve, put it on the table, start the table; all of it is physical and in real space in front of you. Lastly, and this plays into the previous point, it forces me to slow down; I can go on my phone and listen to any song by any artist at any moment, any playlist, and I can do that on a whim; vinyl forces me to pick a specific album from a specific artist and listen through. No song skips, nothing, just me and the time it takes to pick an album and listen to it.
All of this, especially the last point, is good for my mental health, it's incredibly helpful for me.
None of this is related to sound quality, or storage. Healthwise it's a calculated risk. The benefits I get from the listening experience of vinyl outweigh any perceived negatives, and I say perceived because in the case of storage I see the reduced capacity as a plus. Listening experience is so much more than just sound quality, it's everything in the way you interact with music. Why else would you go to a live show if the album is the most refined and difinitive version of the music? It's a different experience.
I'm not some purist, I listen to music via phone/computer or cd vast majority of the time, but I'll put on some vinyl when I really need it.
Ben, your music is simply intoxicating.
I don't have any illusions about it sounding better. I don't think that at all. I just love owning my favorite things (I collect books and movies as well), and the interactive nature of records grounds me. I love putting a record on, flipping it, looking at artwork as it spins, watching it spin, it's an intoxicating process and makes me feel connected to people of the past who are long gone but did this all the time too. I've always known it's bad for the environment, but on this one thing, I guess I'm terribly selfish. Collecting is one of the things that makes me happiest and I'm sticking to it.
So you're one of the many people who doesn't know how to make records sound good, so that means you're not the person to listen to on this subject, not an authority, not real insight. Please don't be one more person confusing your low skill level with 'records don't sound very good'. If we're gonna be like that, then the fact is most mp3s are badly-compressed and have lots of digital artifacts, so that means 'digital music bad' since that's how most of it actually sounds. Records win again.
@jamescarter3196 He's not saying they sound bad. He's just saying they don't magically sound better. Too many people who first get into collecting records feel the need to justify their hobby on the "sound quality".
Also you're assuming things about this person's setup and knowledge because you have no other arguments. Nothing they said indicates they have a poor setup. You're just assuming that because they don't blindly claim records sound better than digital audio. This implies you'd only take their argument seriously if they already agree with your position. Your argument is completely backwards.
So much of the audiophile community is rotten to the core with sacred shibboleths and massive egos ballooned by monetary investment. As someone who has been a part of that toxic community, I hope you find your way out one day.
@@dank5018hear hear. I was also part of it until I dared say midrange equipment was good enough for most people. Then I got kicked out 😅 which did me a favour really.
Good video Benn, thanks for putting the time and effort into making it, I learned quite a bit. Shared it with a few buddies of mine, thanks!
Aright, I'll keep an oxygen tank next to my turntables until we find a solution.
This is honestly so cool that you tested this out, I would love to see a full fledged study on this and hopefully a movement to create environmentally friendly vinyl. If my band gets anywhere near to the size where creating vinyl is viable then I will continue your mindset, love this video and love your channel!
Fellow musician and new fan here. Damn, what a great presentation. How perfectly you stated that last bit about taking the time out of our day to listen to an album the way it's intended... sigh, I wish more people loved music in a focused manner rather than treating it like some backdrop with a "catchy beat" for their day.
As for the meat and potatoes of your point... I really do hope your argument gets the attention it deserves and gains momentum with the industry. I juuuust recently started going through my dad's old vinyl collection, cleaned up and worked out the kinks on his player, and even started adding vinyl to my shopping carts online. I enjoy the experience and love having some of my favorite albums displayed in the tangible and visual means vinyl has to offer. After getting my dad's turntable up to par, I sat there and listened to records for 6 hours and loved every minute of it. Thanks again!
im glad this video is 3 years old and vinyl is bigger than ever, going to buy some more right now
Am on a Benn Jordan marathon atm., i'll try to remember clicking "back" over and over again and like everything once finished. 10/1 content, thanks!
Vinyl is good for one thing, and one thing only: it's possible to replay it using 100% mechanical means, requiring neither electronics nor power. It's inferior in every other aspect I can think of.
I like vinyl because it’s a physical medium and it helps me connect with my music. As opposed to _buying the license_ to listen to an m4a file. Also, a lot of old music I love comes on vinyl. Russ Freeman’s Nocturnal Playground, Mint jams by Casiopea, close to the edge by Yes, My Best by Kitaro, discipline by King Crimson, all great sounding and originally mixed specifically for vinyl. Also, nothing compares to putting on Opera Sauvage and lying on the floor. dust is there sometimes, sometimes not, it’s like a little consultation that it’s a real physical representation of the music and not some nebulous file. I am a younger fellow, and have no connection to the medium nostalgia-wise. I just like it for what it is.
Too bad about the part where I die
Just buy cds tho
@@harper.the.confused
Imma get into cassettes instead. It’s analog. And I can listen to em on the go. Thinking about a WM EX series Walkman.
Buying digital music (not streaming) isn't buying a license though. You do get actual mp3s or wavs or flacs. Sure you're not legally allowed to distribute them to other people, but you're not really supposed to do that with vinyl either...
@@eclectic-kitty I mean, the equivalent for vinyl would be having a press and replicating your vinyl records to give away or sell cheaply
@@L00PdeL00P I would highly recommend CDs. I will let you be an adult, but the fact I can buy a $2 pre owned CD of an album and have its FLAC files and a physical box is astounding. Still, enjoy yourself
- A former cassette collector
For the folks who don't care about the quality argument, and just want to go to the environmental stuff, 7:24
Who here doesn't enjoy the sniffing of vinyl. The aroma takes me back to my kid hood.
Ben, any chance of getting the voice without the music from this so I can make techno about how vinyl is over ?
Yeah post the stems!
FWIW, you could run the video audio through Spleeter (splitter.ai) and, because the music is so quiet, almost certainly obtain (lossy compressed by RUclips) vocals without music which would (other than the lossy compresison) be of sufficient quality to sample.
Plz press on 200 white labels
@@ju9ernaut573 i hear the kids are doing VHS these days.
@@user29a I hear the kids are getting cancer from VHS. R.I.P.
The ironic thing about vinyl is how it’s become a privileged item. I’ve seen some of the rereleased vinyl of immensely popular albums and they’re priced at $38 or something ridiculous. When I was a teenager, buying a cd cost about $15-20 while buying used vinyl was anywhere between 50 cents to about $10 on the high end. A record priced at $25 was considered a fortune. While not all the vinyl was in perfect condition, a vast majority was good to VG. it was the medium for the budget music listener and it was very proletariat. Now it’s switched. As much as I like vinyl, the subscription to a music service has been a dream medium (for the most part-there are still some releases you won’t find on there) at an affordable cost. I used to dj at clubs and always preferred vinyl digital files on loud systems, but the digital files these days have vastly improved and most of the time, I can’t tell the difference if it’s a good quality file.
this is my biggest issue with it, im poor. i managed to collect a lot of great music very very cheaply, paying as much as 4$ for a record! now i cant afford to own the music, but youtube lets me listen free. remember when if you wanted to hear an album/musician you had to track down a physical copy - go to a friends house etc? the future is here.
As soon as everyone got a good quality camera on their pockets, crappy analog cameras (lomos and polaroids) became popular again just because it was more expensive. Some people enjoy the clout of throwing money at their hobbies more than the hobbies themselves.
That's why cassettes came back and why right now is the time to be thrifting CDs.
New vinyl might be 'privileged' but most of it isn't new.
Deejaying files is just not nearly as enjoyable. It's a spiritual thing, almost.
Really appreciate this, because it's important and has a lot of truth behind it. Midway through it, I definitely was trying to figure out how to manage my modest collection. I'd love an environmentally friendly alternative if it's ever developed, but I don't know what to do with my stuff in the meantime. Some serious food for thought into the future of the "holy grail" of physical release formats.
I was contemplating something similar to your handmade boxes for a release of mine, but looking back, it probably wasn't environmentally friendly either. I guess the creativity lies in the solutions of what physical care musicians can put into their art. Thanks again for the talk, Benn. Great stuff.
Very thoughtful video. I grew up during the age of vinyl and listened to thousands of hours of Music On Vinyl. I really appreciate your careful evaluation and presentation of the dangers and environmental repercussions vinyl records
Just wow! You got me thinking quite a bit and I sooo appreciate you making a stance on this and standing your ground. Absolutely inspiring and I appreciate it a lot!
I can't believe it took me as long as it did to get around to these videos. I grew up listening to The Flashbulb (I think I was about 13) and now at 25, I'm finally getting into synthesizers because of dungeon synth. These videos are top notch quality content.
I never got into vinyl/records because I couldn't justify the purchase to myself, but it was a distant goal of mine, even having known some of the harsh effects on the environment. Now that I've learned about the health risks, I actually feel a bit relieved and proud to say that I don't think I'll ever buy them.
MP3 v0 has been my preferred medium for music, and it's nice to have such strong encouragement to practice discipline and deny convenience for pleasure's sake, while it seems the rest of the world is twisting my arm to join the cool audiophile gang. It's also nice to embrace minimalism and watch out for my health, after spending so much time doing the exact opposite.
Thank you for presenting this information! I had no clue about how toxic the material components of vinyl are until now. I only own some vinyl records (probably around 60 to 70 albums/singles in total) and now I am really glad that I have a small apartment which has forced me into being a digital DJ that spins lossless files and 320 mp3s instead of a physical format.
Time and time again, I'll start watching one of your videos based on a premise that I don't necessarily agree with, only to come out at the end learning something extremely valuable that I was totally unaware of. I have personal issues with physical records because of the ease at which they can enable a hoarding addiction, but some of your points are far and beyond anything that I could have imagined. I love your channel and your approach to these topics!
Wow, I had no idea!! Fascinating video, thanks for sharing this information. Personally I grew up with MP3's and perfectly happy with digital myself. I have no nostalgia for vinyl and never understood what the fuss is all about. Besides, I don't have space to store everything that I listen to physically (and I listen to an awful lot) so digital is just a no-brainer. I have decent quality headphones and monitors and storage devices, and (importantly) a quiet room where I can listen undisturbed all things I am super grateful for - its taken me 15yrs to get to the position where I can have these things.
The constraint to not play Toxic by Britany Spears must have been agonising
'Find what you love and let it kill you.' - Kinky Friedman
Love your videos. But parts per million matter. The risk posed by the average home vinyl collection is negligible. You will die from a home fire or slipping in the bathroom a thousand times over before you're materially affected by vinyl emissions. Unless you work in an old vinyl record storage warehouse that's constantly +100F, you're fine.
How do you know?
Doesn't he address that? Isn't that the whole point of the air monitor?
What do you mean by slipping in the bathroom what does that have to do with toxins.
@@joshshrum2764 they're making the point that something that unlikely to happen is still far more likely to happen than you being damaged by your records
It's definitely important to understand and research the risks but not to lose perspective aswell. I think the main problem with vinyl at the moment is environmental damage rather tham the toxic chemicals. Compare those emissions to carbon monoxide from cars or even Noxides if you live in an area with low regulations. Or the amount of radiation exposure you receive while flying.
Still, lead is pretty bad.
Next your going to tell me my synth is killing me! (By the way, please don’t tell me my synths are killing me because I will simply let them).
This video is crazy important!
Thank you thank you!
Yep if the cases are plastic...its out gassing chemicals.
Synths are probably way worse than vinyl. No one with any sense has their hands all over their records. It's the opposite with synthesizers.
I DJ'd for three years starting around '89. I loathed lugging around records, though I love the format primarily due to the larger art-work. That said: I would NEVER go back to all the limitations of vinyl for dozens of reasons now - many of which are creative - especially if I were DJ'ing. Sooooo many better options now. Thanks for this!!
Audio quality argument: This is objectively true.
Needless consumer waste argument: Couldn't agree more.
Health risk argument: Your experiment does not actually test your claim (that owning vinyl records presents a measurable health risk), you are not an expert in this subject area, and making these types of claims in an era where health misinformation is so rampant is... not great!
Don't mean to hate. Love the channel, but given the current climate of internet conspiracy theories causing people to do actual harm to the world (antivaxxers, 5G tower burners, US Capitol stormers), I feel obligated to call BS. I agree that it's definitely a subject that should be researched by actual scientists at some point though!
To be fair, he *did* introduce that segment by saying "I don't have a lab and I am not a scientist, but here's what I was able to do with what I have and here are the results" which is way more transparent and responsible than the problematic misinformation being spread.
@@BNLNRD He did, which is great! but there’s absolutely no scientific basis to the claim, so why make it? I see people in the comments freaking out about their vinyl records, and I could see how these sorts of things spread beyond their original source and go unchecked, get distorted, etc.
If you wanted to actually determine the long term health effects of owning vinyl, you would need to look at a very large sample set of households with and without vinyl records, and determine if there is a statistically significant increase in cancer diagnoses in the households with vinyl records, while also controlling for any other variables that might affect the results.
His experiment in the video does *not* test the claim, which is why I feel obligated to comment, because I think that may be lost on some folks based on the comments.
@@Therareoccasions I tried this and got no rise in TVOCs. It was almost certainly his brand new plastic record player.
I better stop eating my vinyls
Thank you so much for covering all of this, I had so many discussions with people who would not belive me when I say the warmth of vinyl is a result of the limitations of the medium and can be reproduced on any digital file. I will add that buying records is actually good from the point of collecting and actually owning something physical. I have spent a lot of money on mp3, wav ect and I would get next to nothing for it them if I decided to stop DJing, unlike a record collection.
On the environmental side studies have proved that we emit way more co2 today with digital audio streaming than we did with vinyl when it was at its peak.
The main reason for that is : the REBOUND EFFECT
The more something is cheap (energetically and financially), the more we will consume of it. Sure your phone can give you acess to tons worth of records, but when people were limited phisically and financially by the cost of records they would just have a smaller collection.
Then there is the longevity argument, how many hard drives can survive more than a few decades ? How many digital formats did we abandon already in audio and film ?
Then there is the playback devices argument : how many times do you change your turntable, how many times did you change your smartphone ? Which one is easier to repair ? Which one requires more miniaturisation, which one will require more rare earth elements, which one will require more energy to have servers manufactured and running (in the case of streaming)...?
everyone knows reel to reel tape is where its at anyways
Edison Wax Cylinders are what the real audiophiles listen to!
Good for you man! I've had the same concerns about releasing my music on vinyl... as much as it was once a dream of mine. I'm perfectly fine with people listening to my digitalized, compressed music on earbuds, um... closed back headphones.
Great video, I think it's probably a good idea to respect vinyl as an old medium. Going to a small club and watching a DJ masterfully mixing classics on vinyl will always be a joyful experience for me (god I miss those nights). There's a century of music on those discs so we should cherish the ones that already exist but moving forward I agree that digital audio makes more sense. Loosing Record Stores however is a conundrum I don't have an answer for :(
I just bought the same meter and tested my vinyl. I got nothing.
Dope, good to know, thanks.
wow! I never knew how toxic vinyl is. I was just going to start collecting vinyl again. Not anymore. Thanks for your great videos bro
Same
@@chinering23 A collection of vinyl
With the money you save from not buying records, you could get some UPVC windows and vinyl flooring in your kitchen. Maybe get the bathroom refitted with some new plastic pipes. In Britain in particular, PVC is incredibly common. It's basically in everyone's home, whether it contains records or not. For decades, the NHS used bags made of vinyl for storing blood. Think about that the next time your wrap your lips around a plastic bottle.
Very interesting video. To ask another question along these lines - why collect modular synths or any gear when you can create music in the box? Surely that's safer and more environmentally friendly, right?
electronics components are produced completely ethically and are always recycled properly, right? ....right???
analog synths consume less energy and lasts longer than any computer, ideally you can use one synth for ages, because repairing old stuff is easy. so no need to recycle, it is more environment friendly :)
but personally I would choose analog stuff only for the sound, plugins are not even close.
@@SkinnyVampiress But you'll be using a computer regardless. You don't need to use analog synths. More environmentally friendly to use what you already have rather than consume more.
@@flower5185 I didn't expect someone will reply :) well... first, I write and record music without a computer. But I use it anyway in day to day life, but it's more than 10 years old laptop and it isn't really capable of running modern DAWs with all necessary vsti instruments.. If I was using the pc to write music, I would need an upgrade, new PC.
Second - using analog synth is like playing a guitar, can't really replace it with something virtual. Having a real thing is just more inspiring and encourages you to spend more time creating new sounds, exploring sonic possibilities, etc. Instant feedback from every slight parameter tweak or even from change in room temperature, it's very sensitive and almost alive. Analog feels completely different. It is an expirience, and your music always depends on what you are doing and how. We are human beings after all.. And I am not even talking about the "analog sound" right now.
@@SkinnyVampiress I have no problem with you using physical gear. I have a couple pieces as well, I understand the appeal. I was just pointing out that analog gear, modular synths, etc are not really more environmentally friendly than using a computer.
This is really interesting and scary at the same time. Always excellent content from you, thank you for sharing.
Because I work in a specific retail environment where every day I'm bombarded by customers with nutty pseudo-scientific claims about various health threats from vague "toxins" I immediately felt my skepticism meter click to high when I started watching this video. It's not that I doubt that PVC is toxic, or that any number of things in our manufactured synthetic environment are toxic, and your experiment with the air quality meter definitely showed something, but I'm just not sure what exactly. I agree with you that I'd love to see a rigorous peer-reviewed study of what the actual short and long term health threats specifically from vinyl records are.
Anyway, I have no vinyl. I lost my entire collection decades ago when I was evicted from some drug-infested flophouse, and I've never had any urge to go back to them. Digital media is just better. I do think vinyl albums and packaging are kind of cool, and as a musician I totally get the desire and need to provide something physical to actually sell to people. I totally agree with you though that there is a world of opportunity to make stuff much more original and creative than a generic vinyl disc in cheaply printed cardboard sleeve to offer as a collectible to fans. These days vinyl seems like mostly a generic hipster fetish to waste a lot of money on, and they're much more trouble than they're worth. And possibly poisonous.
The meter used in the video is garbage, I've tested with a lab-calibrated unit and there's nothing coming off the vinyl at all.
@@CT-ho6si Thanks bro
@@CT-ho6siAnother commenter theorized that the meter could've been detecting off-gassing from the brand new turntable, rather than from the discs themselves.
"Digital media is just better"-- let's quit pretending the word 'digital' means 'perfect' because it's extremely-ignorant to pretend like all digital music files are 'so much better' when they aren't. The average 'digital music' sold online is not even CD quality (sometimes not even cassette quality), and a lot of CDs aren't as good as the original vinyl. There isn't a magic bullet for any of this, and the 'potential' of the digital format does not at all represent the reality of how it's actually sold--- badly compressed to the point of flatness, and with lots of digital artifacts. Digital music is solely more-convenient, but there's no reason to assert it's inherently 'better' than anything.
Benn, thank you for taking the time to bring this together. Your videos are always engaging, well-researched, and beautifully executed.
However, this video is a case of half the picture being painted in oil and the other half in crayon.
There is absolutely no question that CDs and digital audio have the capability of sounding better. The bottleneck is that a $200 turntable will always sound better than a $200 CD player or $200 DAC. In my experience you need to spend more money on the digital side to get the results you are talking about. This is to do with the fact that vinyl has decades of R&D behind it which has now mostly reached consumer-level. But certainly you are 100% correct here in principle and I say this as someone who has nearly 5,000 records.
The other side of your argument, about the cancer-inducing properties of vinyl really spooked me. As a result I went and purchased a Temtop LKC-1000S+ air monitor and set it up in my small study in which I work which contains my record collection racked up against the walls. I played records all day with the device first at the desk where I work and then later beside the record player (see photos here: photos.app.goo.gl/VjQ4eYC2b65MxTap8 ). I could not reproduce the alarming levels which appeared in your video. I wonder if either there was something wrong with your monitor OR whether perhaps you cleaned the vinyl with lighter fluid [something I have never done].
If your video was a prank I must congratulate you on a brilliant job. And also to agree with you that the ecological impact of vinyl is definitely a topic for conversation. In the video you suggest that people might like to take their own measurements - well now someone has - so certainly I would appreciate this being a featured comment so that people who visit this page can get a more balanced picture before they start sealing their record collections in landfill sites ;-D
Matthew Ingram
www.woebot.com
Great blog dude, thank you for posting the link
I like this dude. He isnt afraid to speak his mind and stays true to his convictions.
Even if he has to make up pseudo-science to pretend like he's got a great point when he doesn't.
Been actively listening to albums since about 1982, and I've never really understood the whole vinyl thing, beyond the bigger art work and cool poster inserts, which are cool.
I think it's the intentionality of it. The closing point about taking a break and so forth struck me. There's a physical interaction with the music rather than searching a file name in a digital library and listening to a single track and moving on.
It takes more effort to make them sound good, but if you like to sit down and put your head between the speakers and listen to an entire album with no distractions, records are well worth the effort. CDs are good too but sometimes the vinyl version of things actually can be better, and I'm saying this with specific examples in my collection, not from a casual 'records are always better' thing. It's not about being cool, it's about listening to music.
Wow, I knew vinyl sucks but I didn't know it was so problematic.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I started DJing in 1991 when mp3's / CD's didn't exist. I then went through the whole Serato / Pioneer CDJ800 thru to 1000 CD age, then the Mp3 stick and then finally 2 years ago I went back to vinyl. Not because I think its "cool" but because I genuinely believe it has a few up sides. a) its expensive - this makes me think 10 times if i really NEED that track or not. This had lead to my music selection being distilled in a good way - I play less generic shite that sounded good on the first listen. b) I'm a very visual person. With vinyl the cover / way the record looks instantly tells me what it is. Also I can "earmark" records i want to play 3 - 5 songs later by pulling them out slightly. Therefore in my mind I'm always thinking ahead. When I played Mp3's i came home after every gig thinking Damn, i forgot to play x,y,z etc. c) Because there is only a finite amount of records u can take to a gig you have to THINK about what u want to play before you go. As opposed to a lot of people i hear out now who always have their entire record collection with them on a stick and have stopped bothering to prepare. d) The B sides - there are SO many good tunes that I would never have bought on beatport because they only sound good on the 5th listen. B sides are a gem and u'll never have discovered them if you didn't have the record. e) You DO support the independant record labels. Cinthie who owns Beste Modus / Crystal grooves etc has thanked me personally for BUYING her stuff. it DOES make a difference. The "vinyl resurgence" is thankfully not limited to bullshit repressed of GnR's use your illusions albums. So, as you can see there are other sides to this. :)
A lot of the positives you list here boil down to "being mindful about music," which is something you can make yourself do no matter the medium.
@@tz4601 Yeah but most people don't, so that's not really a point, just like how people like to casually say 'digital is better' which would be true if it weren't for the majority of online digital music files being badly compressed and having massive digital artifacts. Lots of potential out there isn't being realized by the people who are claiming to tout its greatness.
Benn, I love that you can deliver so much bad news and meticulous detail while making me laugh my ass off.
There is nothing stopping you from printing 1 vinyl, record it back digitally, enhance the bass that were lost and release a record with the vinyl sound. Eric Valentine did this and showing it on his youtube channel :)
true
Cost.
@@Mrshutter True.
I had the same reaction as you to the particulates, but the formaldehyde threw me at first.
Phenol formaldehyde binders are a large fraction - several percent by mass - of the chipboard table the turntable is sitting on.
One of many pieces of evidence that this dude is just trying to make money off the ignorance of the 'digital better, vinyl bad' crowd-- the know-nothings who want to feel smart for taking the easy route and pretend it's 'better'.
My record collection has outlasted about a half a dozen jobs, ex girlfriends, apartments, etc and will more than likely outlive me 😉
Listening to this again 3 years later I physically stopped and slowly turned my head when I heard the word "Lit"
Great video. I've been a vinyl-curious audiophile for a bit, this has helped curb the desire.
Dude's making clickbait, not informing people about what kind of sound they can achieve. Vinyl is difficult to deal with but the results are frequently head-and-shoulders better sound than CD, regardless of whatever numbers anybody wants to cite, as though music lovers are 'listening to the numbers' in a real sense when they're not.
@@jamescarter3196 tbf you're wrong. What you could say, alternatively, is that you enjoy the warmth associated with the noise and distortion associated with vinyl playback.
CDs are PVC as well. I'm all for re-writable MicroSD or creative minimalist thumb drives with MP3, OGG, or FLAC files. I have a sneaking feeling that all media is toxic even tape... live shows are likely even more so. Thanks for the research and videos. Please don't put that detector near any electronic instruments, guitar pedals, or computers. I'll just have to take up gardening.
Haha yeah I just got a couple of Vermona boxes and they smell like a computer from the 90's even when they're not turned. I don't think that's a good thing haha.
CDs are actually not PVC but the power cord insulation of your CD player. And that of the interconnects, the drain pipes in your basement and probably your windows and the siding on your house. This video is just scaremomgering.
µSD and flash drives aren't ROM, and the data that sits in them decays over time, so in practice there are not that many good solutions.
@@Deluxeta The only way of coping is to take into account the passing nature of the things of the world...
CD's are polycarbonate, you can buy records cut on polycarbonate but the needle wears them out much faster.
Poisonous pleasures toxic treasures. You bear the curse of knowing most valiantly. An open window with a fan, you're the man.
bars
I wonder how the meter dropped whemever he switched vinyl?
@ You did notice the meter returned to normal once the vinyl was removed from that table? So no, the table was fine.
@@hatch1892 I think they were joking
Are CD collections better? Maybe
In the 80s, vinyl records were replaced by CDs, which promised durability and better sound quality. CDs were made of layered polycarbonate and aluminium, which has slightly less environmental impact than PVC, and are manufactured using less materials than records. However, CDs can’t be recycled because they’re made of mixed materials that are difficult and uneconomical to separate into their component parts for recycling. CDs were also encased in fragile polycarbonate cases, which, despite being a single material, aren’t widely recycled. They also aren’t as indestructible as many people first thought, which meant many ended up in landfills.
damn that end bit about listening to music nearly brought me to tears for some reason. a powerful observation
Love the honesty and truth ^^ Been here sinse Red extensions of me ! Awesome videos man ! Computers making music reallly helped put stuff into perspective :D
@Benn could you post the links to the studies you mention regarding health hazards please?
I must've been asleep whilst all this was happening. I sold off all my vinyl seven or eight years ago (not a massive hardship as I hadn't even played most of it for the previous decade) before going to work overseas and vowed never to buy another piece of vinyl. I only broke that vow once, and it was to purchase a close friend's debut release. Every piece of music I've bought since then has been a digital release. I listen via streaming services too, but I still buy music that I love. I buy t-shirts, mugs, other merch I'll use day-to-day, sometimes even sheet music or whatever. But not vinyl, since hearing about the horrific impacts on the environment. What really pisses me off is that the same ridiculous nostalgia has now made it's way to cassette tapes as well. What the actual...? Cassettes sounded like absolute garbage when they first appeared, they were always just a convenience and we just put up with their shortcomings as a result. It would be very interesting to know if similarly damaging health effects are present in cassettes as with vinyl, considering that they seem to be equally impossible to recycle.
I good quality cassette tape and player can sound just as good as a record, at least to my ears, so is probably better then vinyl imo.
@@itdepends604 REALLY good quality compact cassette tape and noise reduction could rival CD in quality. Techmoan's "Cassettes: better than you don't remember" demonstrates this.
Problem is, CDs gave you perfect quality reproduction for pennies. A CD is literally just metal pressed onto polycarbonate with a label printed on top. The tape and noise reduction Techmoan used would have been rather pricey.
In fact... the reason why optical media hasn't died out completely yet is purely a function of how extremely cheap it is to press discs.
Since cassettes were made by the same petrochemical companies that thrived using by-products of the oil industry, I presume they are equally hazardous, like anything made of old plastic. On the positive side, I was a kid that grew up licking Lego bricks in a cot painted with lead paint and I'm somehow still alive, but barely.
I'm glad you've made this video. I've been a househead since the early 90s, and collected vinyl for a large part of my life, but was extremely happy to move to digital downloads from Juno, Beatport, Stompy et al. I do love my old vinyl, and wanted to release my own record someday, but now think it'd be ethically dubious at best, and I'd literally be contributing to even further damage to the environment. I wish they could make them out of something environmentally friendly (though you may be about to address that - I haven't finished the video yet!...).
Most eye opening documentaries I’ve ever watched. Crazy shit. Love these kinds of videos you do Benn
I am surprised we havn't had a new material to press records into invented. Something that works the same by making a pick up vibrate. But doesn't get damaged as easy.
The mechanical principle involved in generating vibrations creates a lot of stress in the materials; that is the reason it was abandoned in favor of optical media and magnetic storage. There isn´t an economic incentive in getting back to obsolete analog storage methods except for a niche nostalgia market, thus no new developments. Even if they found a new material that could resist the mechanical stress without generating toxic particles or gases, that inherent resistance would make it a nightmare to recycle. Maybe an analod record that gets its grooves scanned by a laser with a protective caddy?
You know what’s just as cancerous as vinyl?
The Internet.
I feel like killing myself due to total catastrophic breakdown of faith in humanity after reading too much cringe will get me sooner than the vinyl.
Agreed.
@@thrownstair in a literal sense, too though, seeing as how 4G and WiFi cause brain cancer
Pit wow we live in a society
Agreed. The internet causes sticky & biased webs to form in the brain and clogs the free thinking impulse. Worse yet, the internet lives in big data centers that gobble tons of electricity to run all the servers (which in turn require giant chillers on the roof). So lame.
As an IT ex-pat, I simply accept that we are a very young species, progress (whatever that might be) takes a long time, and technology in itself might just be an evolutionary dead end.
If you check your human chauvinism at the door, who's to say that ants haven't found the secret to true happiness long ago.
I kinda wish we could see a resurgence of CD’s tbh. CD collections are pretty cool and probably will last you longer than Vinyl will, however I can’t confirm the 2nd part. It’ll be interesting to see how the integrity of CD’s last compared to vinyl over the course of time.
There's some concern over "disc rot" for pressed discs but it's less common than people think. CDs just as a fact of being digital have greater integrity long-term since small imperfections in the disc don't destroy the data until they become large, glaring imperfections, and at that point it's a matter of cutouts that last a couple seconds.
Minidiscs should have been the future lol
Digitized vinyl rips are criminally underrated, with a good player or system it's a great way to hear the vinyl experience, the texture, warmness, etc...I love my 24 bit rips of classic psychedelic music
As someone born after vinyl was a common way to listen to music, I genuinely didn't know they're commonly made from ... that. I loved to listen to vinyl at my grandparent's house when I was a kid. We had snack bowls DIYd from old records. I have fond memories of them, but I guess I won't miss them.