The dark side of the solar power boom: Power Shock, Part 2 | 7.30
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2019
- About two million Australian homes and businesses have installed rooftop solar.
The money flowing into renewables, some of its from government subsidies, has meant a rush of new players in the market.
But advocates warn the industry is effectively unregulated and some customers are very unhappy.
For Part 1, click here: • The power play behind ...
For Part 3, click here: • What future-proofing A...
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Just like all reporters. Take something that’s going the right direction and finish up by making it sound like the end of the world. Aluminium, glass, silicone, lead and silver are all very recyclable and paid for items. The recycling shed at the end wouldn’t be so big without being profitable. I’d like to know of one industry in Australia that doesn’t have subsidies associated with it. Stop fear mongering and make this world sustainable.
Seems a bit unfair to talk about solar subsidies without talking about the $12 billion of subsidies that go to coal.
Probably creates a lot more local jobs, than just importing a bunch of solar panels from China or Korea, and inverters from Germany etc.
@@VenturiLife where do you think all the machinery for the mines comes from. Iv seen a whole loading terminal , convaer belt and all turn up on the back of a ship. The only job Aussies had was installing the poles in the water for the terminal to sit on.
shades2 no no no. Once established, a coal.mine and power sration is very automated and surprisingly few people are actually employed. To replace coal with renewables means a massive construction program. Jobs mate.
coal is a grid stable reliable cheap power source, solar is a niche local unstable power producer. battery systems to make it stable for 24/7 use make it very not sustainable. Any construction jobs will be very short term and low pay.
@@kercchan3307 do a bit more homework...the string of 40+ days Victoria experienced in January was let down badly by coal, given 2 coal-fired plants that were supposed to be online at the time failed to come online...if it weren't for solar, rooftop and otherwise, the grid would definitely have experienced a much larger blackout area than it did and possibly a major collapse.
A distributed grid network is the way of the future...not more poison belching coal-fired power plants.
So you think those fossil Industries didnt receive any subsidize from our tax money huh?.... Cut it all and we can see how expensive fossil fuel is!
hyou zan ren but very few people benefit from solar power!!!!
someone wants to live without electricity.
hyou zan ren , if it wasn't for coal fired power clown, the standard of living in this country would be stuffed.
The standard of living in countries like India and China have risen thanks to cheap, reliable coal. Renewable energy is a rip off and the Climate Change is the greatest con the world has seen.
@@mickmorrissey16 Your mindset lives in the last century, and you have a considerable amount of reading ahead of you. Coal has its own, prohibitive cost. Even the PRC, one of the world's biggest polluters and choke points, is moving away from coal toward solar and other alternatives because China understands the effect of what it has done with coal.
Bob Greene , I think it’s you that might need to get the books out Bob, China are going ahead with coal fired power as their solar and wind experience has been lack lustre at best.
Solar and wind simply aren’t up to it , not to mention the environmental impact these sources are having.
If we were serious we would go nuclear. But that ain’t gunna happen when Gore and his mates are too heavily invested in renewables.
I’m still yet to be convinced this CO2 emissions thing is man made.
In the mean time let’s wait for the next failed prediction.
I have had solar for 5 years now, my power bill was up around $800 / quarter or $3,200 / year, I have also bought cheap running appliances and LED lights, the system works well and has been no trouble, I am upgrading my system later this year so I can run an electric car, this should save about $2,500 in petrol and pay for the upgrade in a few years time, my last bill was $112.17 credit, guess where my next Christmas party money is coming from????? The best part is not having to find the money for power every 3 months, it really makes a difference to our daily living and we dont care how high power prices go up any more.
How much was the initial install and will the upgrade be?
Martin, Seriously ? $800/ a quarter year? Dude, time to rethink your usage and ways to reduce it. I have NEVER spent $800 in a full year for electric and I live in HOT SoCal and have a swimming pool sucking up juice all summer.
In Victoria typical prices for 6kw rooftop system are now down to $5k. Depending on usage patterns, you could typically expect to cut bills by 3/4 pretty easily. Personally I like Trina & Jinko panels and SMA & Fronius inverters for cost and reliability.
@@jasonvoss1984 Shame you don't realise there,s a panel factory in Adelaide, Support local jobs.
@@shiraz1736 thanks yes sorry I forgot to mention them. Good call.
A completely misleading title. Lack of policy cannot be termed as ' dark side' of a technology!!!
Are you kidding me? The government *cough* sorry, the taxpayers, many of whom can't afford solar paid for the bloody things. Not only does it represent a toxic waste crisis on the horizon but it also represents a wealth transfer from renters to property owners. It's the government taxing the poor to pay the middle class so they can act smug about how green they are.
Solar is crap. Panels are crap, inverters are crap , warranty is crap. Sellers are ...you know the chorus.
That is the essence of spin and propaganda
Yes, she doesn't get into problems until over halfway through, and they aren't exactly dark.
'Dark side' or rather one of dark sides, completely brushed over in this report is toxic waste. ABC being ABC "forgot" to mention that solar panel contain high levels of toxic compounds which leach out to underground waters, and yet we burying them in landfills.
Here in the USA New York, i installed twelve 275 watt panels and enphase microinverters, connectors, rails, etc. by myself at a cost of $5,500. I had it for 5 years. In addition i installed LED lights. My electric bill is now $20 a month. We never had a high bill for a 3500 square foot house. But my goal is to live big without the expense. The money i would have to earn to pay for the utility bill will be taxed before i receive it to pay the bill. Now i do not have to use taxed money to pay for my electricity, and it is used to enjoy life. Solar panels on the roof keeps heat out of the house in the hot weather, and insulates the house in the cold
They say that Solar PV is not viable in New York because it is so Cloudy. Would inform me on how many Kwh do your solar panels produce per year.
Thanks
joseph john ~late Jan - early November i produce between 10 and 17 kwh per day (of course about 5 days that month i can produce between 1 to 5 kwh per day. I actually live in the mountains of North NJ where i can see the NYC skyline - but being in NJ, first energy electric is $0.16 per kwh
I would say i produce about 350-400kwh per month. I believe in NY the con edison rate is $.25 per kwh
So that could be $100 per month for a NYer
I installed my system myself for under $6,000 and that includes the enphase enlightenManager app on my ipad where i can see how each panel and microinverter is percorming. I already had 3 microinverters go bad, and enphase accessed them from their California location found them to be defective, and overnighted me 3 replacements.
My system is obviously going to take longer to pay me back, but at $.25, my setup will have a 6 year return on investment. At $.16 i am looking at 10 years - but i expected rates to go up. I had it about 5 years now.
@@davidjames666 . Thanks for your response. What a production you're getting it means your Solar panels are very efficient.
Lets try and get rid of all subsidies for energy and see which technology wins.
Maybe we should get rid of individuals within the government with vested interests in one industry succeeding over another.
@@CoinsBand Ah yes. The Greens.
@@ibrahimsiali2419 lol. Scott Morrison literally took a lump of coal to parliament. If you're going to throw shade on the greens for vested interest, you're going to suffocate under the weight of your own hubris acknowledging the Librals' vested interest.
@@CoinsBand I wasn't denying that the Liberals do indeed have a pro-fossil fuels agenda. I mean its a circus either way.
Subsidies is the governments way of legally giving our taxes to their corporate sisters. The whole idea of taxes is to provide us with the necessities of everday things such as public transport and hospitals etc. When there sold off and then subsidized.... were paying for them twice. Our electricity was cheapuntill it got into private hands ( subsidized). If they wanted to keep 100% of the market they would keep a cheap rate.... but that's not the plan! The plan is to keep increasing the prices... so you think your saving money by going solar etc. Meanwhile solar is being subsidized from the mining to your roof , and it's all dependent on fossil fuels and your money.
So what's Green about Solar? This Docco almost paints a Toxic image , rubbish products , waste issues and more land fill. What happens to coal ash again??
Solar Panels going to landfill? Perhaps a portion of each panel is waste, but the truck shown to illulstrate that point was full of recyclable Aluminium is worth around A$1500 per ton . Glass can also be recycled. at A$30 per Ton. (Figures fact checked just now) There is no point in seperating the materials unless they were to be sold. Why else would anyone set up a business to recycle solar panels unless they were making money from it, and why arent there more businesses like it if this is such a problem? Its essentially free money!
Not to forget there is also silver in the solar panels.
Solar cells are hard to recycle as in Europe any product made needs a full life cycle plan and are creating ways to recycle them now
@@danielcockerill3761 Yes in Europe; the panels are recycled >90%; the plan for wind turbines are also getting there, only thing lacking is the glasfiber used for the wings
I'm in Bulgaria, I bought 10 X 12 volt 100 watt & 4 X 24 volt 220 watt Baird Solar Panels in London and went Completely Solar >>> No electricity Bills at all >>> Even in the winter with a 550 Watt Wind turbine, we manage successfully. But, that excludes Winter Heating unfortunately its burning Oak Logs. ( Never looked back ) While every one around me pay Huge electricity bills the equivalent to their monthly salaries !!!! >>> And salaries aren't very high here.
How many Kwh does your solar panels produce per year
@@josephjohn907 >>> Geee . . . I havent worked it out, I guess I should though. But Im so stoked that I never want for more . . . I have wired my place with the thickest wire and short runs, low wattage Halogen Dichroic lamps. Sorry I cant answer your question.
@@grahambird1570. Nice. Thanks
@Mr. P. Enis >> No, havent had time .>>>
Solar cooperatives are much cheaper then residential solar. Get a community to buy into a larger system (100 kw +), then split the energy into each investors account. A kw of large installation solar can be 1/3 the cost of residential solar.
All for solar cooperatives...great idea...only 1 itsy bitsy problem...the federal government is still in the horse and buggy era...without local, state and federal regulatory assistance, your idea is nearly dead in the water before it starts if communities try to go up against electric power companies on their own.
@@hitreset0291 If they have a battery they dont NEED the grid for practical purposes. But i dont think the people in charge will like citizens gaining that much independence, they will legislate against it. But interestingly, there was talk of leasing out poles and wires, which will be largely redundant with a big enough battery. I cant help but think Mike Baird's advisors saw this coming and let China think they leased a valueble asset. Which it is decreasingly important as battery storage increases and costs come down
@@MrWackozacko from a national security perspective, a decentralized grid makes a whole lot of sense. The trouble being a decentralized grid requires the initial support of government at all levels to get up and running...something that isn't going to happen now unfortunately.
Local Energy Cooperatives.👍👍👍
I would be happy to barter my excess solar production for some local produce.
Again...not likely to happen cuz pollies struggle with thinking outside the box.
@M Detlef pretty sure he's talking about small cooperative communities, not city-wide grid replacement.
bullshit...who pays for the poles to distribute this "cooperative'? Sounds like a body corporate style idea run by debating team captains....no thanks
I bought two solar panels in 1990. They were 55 watt panels. They were over $300 each. They are still working today. When we lose power in a thunderstorm I still have television, lights and internet. At least videos like this one won't leave me sitting in the dark.
So u had 100 watt right? So after near 30 years how much watt u generate from both?
@@rajarampatel601 one was damaged by reversed polarity about 5 years ago so I only get about 25 watts out of it. The other one still puts out close to 50 Watts. I use 4 panels that are 100 watts each for my main power and the two old panels bypass the charge regulator and are tied directly into the battery bank. There is a video of my setup somewhere on my channel if you are interested.
@@simplethings3730 oo thanks buddy , i was thinking that solar go totally waste after 25 years in sun
My television never disappears either. Do your panels still work during storms? When the sky is black clouds. Buy some more of them.
I use solar and wind power 100 percent for my house and work shed best thing ever and bore and rain for drinking being self sufficient is a great feeling.
slipryeel whoow, hypcrite, great feelings? What about all the chemicals that are put in your solar panels? Heavy metals, paints, plastics, Carbon Made concrete etc. What aboutpollution when you have .to dump your “green shit when it doesn’t work anymore? And you know how these “renewables” are made, right? Hypocrite, just say you do it for the money, then you sound honest!
@@crazyasitis1940 let thy who art without sin cast the first stone, seems to be a good analogy here!
@Chris Russell would love to know more about your system any chance of a video. (Liquid salt storage? )
@@crazyasitis1940 its a scam
the viability of many of these system is based on the idea of 'net billing', i.e. you generate enough to make your meter turn backwards and use that to either offset nights and rainy days or during parts of the year when solar output falls off. The real question is, 'what's in it for the power company?'. You ask them to back you up all the time, meaning they have to keep generating capacity on line and ready to serve at a moments notice whenever the sun goes behind a cloud or your inverter fails, are you paying for this? I expect to see a lot of utilities failing as this becomes very large in the market, I see a lot of them pulling the plug on net billing forcing folks to install equally expensive battery systems to store and ease out interruptions. A lot of folks like playing with these systems and do more than enough homework to know how to deal with them both technically and in terms of regulation, but a larger number don't and don't want to learn. What I do see is significantally high power costs and lower reliability.
Although I don't live in Australia (I live in the UK), I love my solar panels. Installed 7.5 years ago in 2011 & my power bills are almost zero (but not quite). When people slag-off solar or wind power w.r.t. limited life & landfill, they really need to double check their facts first before mouthing off. The waste of any power station at end of life is absolutely massive relative to solar. The inverters & panels in the UK are 95% recyclable. My PV panels have only lost 2% efficiency in 7.5 years & my inverter continues to function @ 97% efficiency (I am an ex-mechanical design engineer).
What is the alternative to renewable forms of energy generation? Pollution, global warming, extreme weather events, are all becoming noticeable ( in the UK spring now arrives on average 3-weeks earlier than when I was a child & we now hardly ever experience proper snowfall in winters).
The chap in the video who has gone through 3x inverters should have invested in a higher quality inverter in the first place (mine are SMA). You tend to get what you pay for in life.
Wind, solar, hydro, tidal, wave, are all part of a balanced solution, together with power storage solutions. In truth though it will be many decades before we can scrap conventional power stations altogether until the world has a truly International Power Grid. Regards to all, JohnnyK.
Positive thinking. Keep it up bro
How many Kwh does your solar panels produce per year
@@josephjohn907 Hi, to answer properly is difficult, but around 5,000 kwh pa as an average. It varies quite a bit as the UK has rather variable weather. My full data for 7-years is available for all to see on the Aussi website: PVOutput, search for JohnnyK's PV. I will attempt to answer most questions.
@@johnkay4701. Thanks for your response.
@@johnkay4701. For clarification sake how many watts of Solar panels produced the 5000 kwh.
Thanks.
You have deftly avoided giving any indication about why those panels were put into the waste stream; had they failed (very unlikely) or had they been removed because people were upgrading to new, larger, systems that weren't able to use them? I have 5 kW of panels I bought for $600 that are second hand and perfectly servicable. They're good for another 20 years yet.
where you buy them from may I ask
I'm the same, bought 2nd hand panels cheap online from an installer that was upgrading someone's system
same here, a roof full of second hand panels that were deemed too old.
it is like with the i phone, some people just want the latest and pay the price.
Be prepared for inverter failures as part of the costs and maintenance. I would like to see separate DC systems in solar homes, rather than all these energy wasting ac/dc converters heating up and wasting energy!
Yup. If solar becomes a real big thing, we can easily replace all our AC motors with DC motors. Then you can have a DC fridge, a DC air conditioner, a DC lights and fan. All our electronic are DC, they have converters to change AC to DC. We need the inverters because all readily available appliances are built to run on AC.
Hey I don't want to go back to where my car is running on a generator what's the matter with you?
We already tried all that crap. Frickin frackin Fountain Yonkers anyhow formalin mumbling Governor Gavin!!!!!!!
Solar works best in conjunction with the grid (batteries are expensive and go bad after a few years, they are also inefficient), so inverters are necessary. Mine came with a 20 year full replacement warrantee, I haven't had any problems with it so far (8 years in). Don't know why so many have the all or nothing mindset. More energy is demanded during the day, so solar is good for meeting that peak demand and lowering the burden on the local utility (coal or otherwise). The local utilities can easily forecast demand based on weather and temperature and either supply more or supply less as needed. In conjunction with solar, the demand for coal (or others) will go down, and that's a good thing - let it become the backup and nighttime energy supply.
@@gordo3582 I don't think the demand for power will ever go down, not without a lot less people. I had solar power 7 years my batteries and the system never failed me. And I only lived off of 114 Watts a 64 watt panel and a 50 watt panel. And a couple of t105 batts. But I hear what you're saying, I know what you mean. Time I was done with my system, I had $1,400 into it. It was fun learning how all this stuff went together and then it gave me power when I was done how cool is that.
this is because of crappy inverter technology which in essence is digitally based, it would be far more efficient to just use an efficient dc motor coupled to an ac generator in order to get clean ac power. Then the likelihood that something will fail is diminished, and the only maintenance that you'll have to do is change brushed over, unless of course you're using a brushless dc motor, then so long as you have clean energy going into it, and it's well maintained, it should last quite a long time.
Govt. to blame not the solar revolution .
Blame for what?
why wasnt the subsidies that coal gets mentioned? I am not against coal in the short term but its unfair to mention solar subsidies without mentioning coal .
The LNP complain when they do factual reporting, so they need to balance it out with biased opinion pieces.
Coz they get bugger all when compared to subsidies paid to renewables company’s. Most of the subsidy money paid by the Government, using taxpayer dollars, goes out of the country back to Corporate HQ’s overseas. No taxes paid, but the energy company then charges the consumer top dollar for energy supplied. So the consumer pays twice. Once through taxes and once through energy purchases. Energy suppliers are not in the least interested in saving the planet, only interested in making money. Likewise for investors in renewable projects, irrespective of their political leanings. (They are on both sides of politics.)The whole thing is a mess and the little guy, as always, gets screwed.
i don't live in australia, but the title of this video totally misleading and BS
We here in the US subsidized the oil industry by fighting a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, it cost us about 2 Trillion. How much did your solar subsidy cost?
Nice to know that green energy is made with red blood.
Power was out for more than a week in Sydney in some suburbs after a storm , I was parked on the side of the road in an rv , running aircon , microwave , and so on ,as far as dodgy companies, nearly every market is dodgy , car services, trade services and all the way up to banks and politicians and even health services, they all hide under the civil law which means you can’t call the police, you have to make a complaint and take them to court and no ones got time or the money to fight it out in court
Wow. My thinking was much the same as Trevor, but my setup didn't cost me anywhere near what his did. Last I figured, it's cost me just under $3,000. $40k seems like an awful lot to me. Then again, I don't drive a Tesla. But I've got roughly the same number of panels as he does; I have 10kwh worth of batteries - I still get a power bill, but it's about $6 a quarter. I'm extremely pleased with the system, and I did it all myself. Though I would have liked the latest Lithium batteries, I went for lead-acid AGM, which is still the most cost-effective. The batteries are 6x 12 volt 130Ah, connected in 24 volt system. Instead of paying $2000+ for the inverter, I bought one directly from China for $400. I was so impressed I bought another one as a spare. Hot water is included, with 3 panels connected directly to the water heater element, and a homemade heat pump that runs off the house power for when the dedicated panels aren't quite enough. I don't use the heat pump in summer, only winter. My house is completely off the grid, but the bathroom is still grid-connected, and I have the option of plugging in the inverter/charger when the sun disappears, but I rarely have to do this.
Oddly, I don't know of anybody around me who''s done the same thing. I found a guy on Gumtree who was selling 150-watt solar panels, traded in, for $30 each. That's what started it. I have never looked back. There are some lifestyle changes involved in living off the grid, but they are fairly minimal, and just common sense.
This program doesn't give the right impression, other than Don't let the government run your life, you will go broke. I don't get any subsidies, rebates, not anything; I just make and use my own electricity. That's how it should be imo.
"Instead of paying $2000+ for the inverter, I bought one directly from China for $400."
having no knowledge of electricity but I did try buy stuff from ebay (mostly china) and got mostly 4th grade stuff.
How do you know you got a good quality inverter?
Was it from a brand name?
@@shachar2 Not a brand name afaik, but commonly available on eBay. What's nice is that it has integrated inverter/charge controller, so you don't need any other equipment. Some external charge monitoring is nice, but it has an LCD panel that gives you a lot of info. The inverter is very good, doesn't care when air conditioners, fridges, etc. start up.
@@freddyzdead1" The inverter is very good, doesn't care when air conditioners, fridges, etc. start up." meaning that the inverter is shielded from interferences. it's usually something in the form of a metal or aluminum cover or even a foil but it's nice that they thought about it
@@shachar2 No, it means the inverter is not troubled by sudden big current increase. They are not all like that. This is the most tolerant one I've seen.
@@freddyzdead1 oh, ok
Both disassembly and and assembly of solar panels should be automated. Most things should be produced with, repair, uppgrade, disassembly and recycling in mind.
They didn’t go into the recycling of the solar panels with all their heavy metals that don’t break down and other carcinogenic elements in them.
Still better than coal
@@namikosai9466 why. Because you got told that?
Name one toxic element used in photovoltaics? Think about fuel's toxic compounds.
@@josephfigliuolo7286 I'll give you ten!
The toxic chemicals in solar panels include cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride.
We've had a 1.5kW system for the past 5 years. For 2 people it would more than halve our bills. But our house is now packed with kids and spouses so we probably save about 20% off bills so we end up with about $1000 bills once a quarter.
Hopefully next year we will get a 5kW system (they're at about $5000 now) next year. Then maybe a battery down the track.
We did our homework for the first system - getting reviews and benchmarks of panels and inverters. We'll do the same again. And get reviews of installers. This is what Google searches are designed for.
Sponsored by the Coal Authority of Australia
It's not 1970s. Solar is cheap and reliable. @@PastarBlastar
@@PastarBlastar total bs an 18kw storage is about the level needed in average household the size that tesla makes, if every household goes solar then its only industry that needs power which will then access to massive surplus capacity
The criticism is legitimate. Lot's of install bushinesses are borderline scammers. Best advice is to thoroughly "research" what brands of panels and inverters are worth their money and how to place them properly.
Admiral Byrd might be of interest to you.
Brendon noble gold star for the 2nd paragraph.
I feel sorry for the guy who it didn’t work out for. But this is what happens when your an early adopter. It’s also the case that you can be ripped off by a cheap company/installer. That’s also part of life. Do your homework go with someone you trust.
A) that's an old system
B) solar is improving all the time.
C) use Tesla - it works
D) all this whinging. It's new - do you honestly expect it to be trouble free - this is an arsehole report
Spot on. Look at how long it took for the Infernal Combustion Engine to become even a little 'efficient', decades of development, and Govt pushing. Just imagine what that timeframe will do to electric cars, busses, trucks? , aircraft? and battery development.
Happy to have my solar experience interviewed...am already into my 2nd generation after upgrade and expansion of 1st system in Jul18. Did my research. More than happy with the results (more like ecstatic)...
Sound expensive already great if you can afford it .
@@gregdean2012 The trick is to pay it off over time with the savings that you are making by going solar
@@JustAnotherBigAl pay it off that woud mean borrowing money dont want that there is enough debt in our country already if people can afford them outright good on them but to be completely green as everyone wants to be then completely cut yourself off from the power grid .
@@gregdean2012 Sounds like you don't own a car or a house if you don't like debt
Do the maths :) it's actually cheaper to buy solar than pay full price bills.
OMG< ThERE is a place that has used solar panels at junk prices??? Damn, I wanna be Australian! all those panels I saw were NOT EVEN BROKEN!!!
Perhaps I need to dig out my old solar cooker and the black plastic bag shower?
Misleading video !
Solar electricity is really productive with high quality components.
Advise ;
Buy any solar inverter which is made in Germany
(Never go for chinese brands )
Do your homework about Solar panel brands
( because all solar panels are chinese )
Following 3 solar panel brands can be recommended.
1) Trina Solar
2) Canadian Solar
3) REC Solar
i LIVE OFF GRID in the US desert southwest, I have three gas generators, and have not started them for over ten years. All solar, all the time.
Never go for chinese brands. Everything they make fails in under 40% of the time of brands made elsewhere. They put more effort into making fake things look real than they do into improving quality. They are where Japan was in 1970. Maybe in another 10-15 years they will start to focus on quality. (Of course by then the climate change will be screamingly obvious and that's going to rock our world massively as people begin to see the equator will be uninhabitable and flooding is going to render huge portions of the coastlines unsuitable for investment grade building outside of port facilities. But for today, everything is happy and sea level is only up 5"-8" since 1900 after being completely stable from 0 to 1990.)
@Chris Russell ??? I didn't delete any post. I edited the above post to include the potholer45 link.
Look- no skin off my nose. I'll be dead by the time it gets bad. If you are under 40 and not in the top 2%, you are going to suffer years of misery or worse. No skin off my nose.
Even if you got with the program, it's still too late. We are looking at a 6C increase.
@Chris Russell that was pop science magazines. There were more papers for global warming even then. You are being played for a sucker by wealthy fossil fuel people.
You guys make the same mistake that 99% of all the other people do when they post their videos on the internet, and that mistake is... the annoying back round music, or sound effects that interferes with the narration of the person that's talking. It's not necessary!!
A lack of a national plan towards renewables...gee...do you think???
Australia's government has yet to display a common sense attitude toward the UTILITIES. Previous politicians sold off government owned operations to private enterprise lock stock and barrel. Householders and business who relied on economically produced power, gas,water are now paying the highest bills in the world, meantime the idiots who 'run' the nation are are helping Contractors to make millions of dollars having being handed the UTILITIES to private enterprise. Well done Australia. Perhaps all this is a part of the plan to sell the entire nation to Red China? The latter have been nibbling away for some years now and it wont be very long before Communist China actually owns Australia.
@@terryofford4977 Hope u are wrong I can't understand why the population of a free country dont wake up and throw them bad politicans out!
If you wish to end the NEM and re-nationalise all assets, then say so. Government monopoly has its dark side, but it is arguably preferable to continual political meddling in what is supposed to be an energy trading platform for free enterprise.
we have had solar on our roof for close to 11 years and they were well installed by a reputable local company, we started with 18 panels which payed themselves off after the first 7 years and so we upgraded to 24 panels and a 7kw inverter,
This report should be titled, "The Dark Side of What Our Petroleum-Invested Owners Make Us Say On Air"
The ABC in Australia is 100% taxpayer funded and receives no revenue from any other source. The ABC does not carry commercial advertising of any sought. That is not to say that there is a guarantee of no government influence but I can assure you that there are no "petroleum invested owners" of the Australian National Broadcaster. If you are not familiar with the ABC, most Australians would describe the broadcaster as being a progressive left wing organisation. They are certainly not the mules of vested multi national entities as you are perhaps implying. It is simply not the case.
Wasn't the dark side indicating that there were countless homeowners with solar panels and useless warranties on said panels?
That's what I figured they were trying to illustrate.
@@danielz722 well yes but that's the "dark side" of buying anything from a company youre unfamiliar with especially overseas.. I just dont see how this specifically applies to solar
yep do your homework and pay for premium panels and inverter. My 3kwh system produces enough for us average 10kwh per day, and we use around 6kwh a day, all we need is a battery for storage.
Yes but it shouldnt have been un affordable before Chinese solar
Nuclear power for baseload and renewable energy for everything else
Also, more people would use grid connect solar if the feed in tariffs are not constantly being reduced (in SA they charge 40c/kWh but they only pay 2-5c/kWh for solar feed in)
Nuclear would be nice but we are too scared in this country unfortunately .And the time it would take would be ridiculous look how many years it has taken the adani coal mine to get this far blocked every step of the way .
@@gregdean2012 we need to just build the power plant and tell the public that it is a new type of power plant that uses the fundamental forces of physics to generate energy, most bogans and snowflakes wouldn't even know what that means (they are the ones that are scared of nuclear energy)
@@user-fj2tp6zf6q why would we need to dump the cooling water? It's not radioactive
Do you have any idea how an nuclear reactor actually works or is this a classic case of "diarrhea of the mouth" like most other anti nuclear power morons tend to get
I'll give you a quick explanation about how the cooling systems of most nuclear reactors actually work
The reactor core (where the nuclear fuel is) is a sealed pressure vessel that is full of "heavy water", that heavy water is purely there to transport heat from the core to the steam generation system, that heavy water is definitely radioactive, but not as much as you would think since the fuel rods are actually sealed and the uranium is not in direct contact with the water, it works like this, imagine a radiator submerged in water, the radiator is full of heavy water at several hundred degrees C which heats up the surrounding water to the point it turns to steam, this also cools down the heavy water, which in turn cools the reactor core
The water in the steam generation system is flash heated by the heat transport system and spins a turbine which is connected to a generator a d makes electricity
The steam (which is not radioactive) then passes through a condenser to turn the steam back into water to be used all over again, large pumps draw water from a large body of water like a lake or from the sea and passes it through the condenser system and then it is pumped back outside the power plant, as such the water near the power plant is usually warmer than normal and attracts a lot of fish and other aquatic life to the area, this benefits the fish themselves since they have a free source of warm water, it also benefits local fishermen and even the power plant itself (those creatures can help reduce the amount of barnacles and algae that can accumulate in the plants cooling system and therefore reduce maintenance costs and downtime)
Even if the heavy water leaks into the steam generation system, the cooling water that exits the power plant is NOT radioactive since the steam generation system is also isolated from the cooling water, you could even drink it (after boiling it to kill microbes.etc)
@@mwbgaming28 www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/21/hinkley-point-c-dreadful-deal-behind-worlds-most-expensive-power-plant Not cost effective, not proven, require massive subsidy to even be built. Waste that has a half life measure in tens of thousands of years. Yeah, genius idea. If they were what they claim the private business would be all over them and they wouldn't need tax payers to fund them. Also, some of those "morons" are university professors who study this stuff for a living. With, you know PhD's, 'n shit. Something to think about, maybe.
@@mwbgaming28 fyi during last summers heat wave in Europe: reactors in several countries (Sweden, Finland, France, Germany, ...) had to be stopped or dialed down as the cooling water became to hot. How affected they were depended on reactor type and how they get their water.
I sense the dark arts of the fossil fuel propagandists at play here.
People equipped with solar powerstations and electric cars may get transport for free. It's not acceptable neither for oil companies nor for governments. "Where are our benefits and taxes???"
I'm all for used solar panels even if they don't produce full power they can still be used in large fields.
If they were only going to go to landfill anyway, ie they were being given away for free, then yeah for sure, cover my entire roof with them, even at only 10% of their original efficiency I'd still be producing over 100% of my required electricity needs !
Landfill issue my ass.that aluminium is worth heaps and the remaining panel can be shredded to 1000th if it’s original size
Cans can be recycled but aluminium frames from solar panels cant?
They were recycling it didn't you see it in the dumpsters? They're not throwing it away it's just being hauled to a place for aluminum.
Yeah but when you factor in the energy used to make the panel, the inverter, the batteries and the cost to recycle them, do you even get the energy back out of the system that was used in the manufacture of said items?
@@iampennochio And you use this energy recovery rationale for every item manufactured in the world today?
You need to Apologise to Mr Poo
It's not the aluminum that's the problem, or the glass, , it' the 10% of the weight of a typical solar panel that's comprised of heavy metals and other nasty chemicals. The problem is worst in storm-prone areas where the panels are often shattered, with the toxins already leaching into the soil by the time anyone tries to clean it up.
I feel for Alex Smith but there is a fundamental issue with the size of the system that people have been installing. Unless you maximise the number of panels and go way over your needs you will not make a good return on your investment. We installed a 9KW system for $7.4K and so far are saving $2000 a year in our electricity bills (basically we are paying zero). So we will make our money back in 3.5 years. And that is in Melbourne. With our system in the dead of winter on a heavily overcast day we are still making 1.5KW. So what I have learnt is that people should maximise the size of their installation. Nowadays solar panels are almost nil cost after the carbon credits are taken into account.
Australia: Government subsidizes green power.
U.S.: Some regions will fine green power users to enforce government-mandated monopolies (e.g., Tennessee Valley Authority).
That man who said "Be very careful that you're not just a pawn in their way of making a lot of money." The problem he had was not in installing solar. It was the fact that he chose a company to do it that was only interested in making money and was not interested in doing a good job. When you are looking for companies to hire you have to check the quality of their work before you hire them. The mere fact that they used only a photograph and didn't check out the site in person should have rung alarm bells about dealing with them. They were the people who were at fault, not solar installations themselves. This video suggests that people paying to have solar panels installed are ripping off taxpayers because of the subsidy they get.
Why not mention the more than $5 trillion that the fossil fuel industries receive through subsidies and tax breaks every single year around the world. They also are not including the amount saved when calculating the true cost of fossil fuel use in the hospitalization and the financial and emotional costs of the deaths of over 7 million people every year around the world from PM2.5 which is created by burning fossil fuels for energy and transport. These are deaths from respiratory problems and heart attacks and strokes and they are preventable. The particulates clog up your arteries and they have even been found inside the placenta with unborn babies. Far more subsidies are paid annually to the fossil fuel companies than for solar installations and the solar power won't kill you or your loved ones.
Buy Kyocera of BP panels as the warranties will be honored down the road.
After they stop mining coal they can backfill with defunct solar panels
No... they've got this idea to spend millions of more tax dollars of turning them into lakes. Now the mining companies will save millions by not meeting the terms of their contracts, and back filling - re landscaping. Then they'll probably find that it's not suitable for drinking.... but perfect for Fraking.
The guy dealing with the old panels said that they were broken down to the component parts and recycled, and then he went on to say they would fill landfill. There's a bit of a contradiction there.
The aluminium frsme can be reused. The rest of the panel (including glass) is contaminated with lead and cadmium and will go into land fill. The toxic heavy metals will be a problem for future generations to remediate.
Australia had to stop approving new rooftop solar because the grid cant absorb any more intermittent energy. Wind turbines can be braked and locked out if they over produce energy. Solar panels cant be turned off. If the grid is being over loaded by excess solar and not enough consumption you cant stop the panels and it destabilizes the grid. Australia's big battery is supposed to help with this, but they would need dozens of such batteries to accommodate every house having roof top solar.
Solar panels making electricity during the day is the same problem as no one using electricity at night. The problem is that the grid is currently setup to have power go from the power station the the consumer. All you need to do is change the taps on the transformers so power will flow the other way without making the voltage too high. The problem is that offpeak has changed to daytime instead. The grid can certainly cope with solar it is no different than lots of people turning on their kettle at the same time.
Solar gets bad publicity because the generators make less money and they have to complain.
My Array used to support my habit, but I outgrew that dependency before its maturity.
So with all the solar what is the price of a kwhr from the grid did it go up And if so how much.
No one adds in the high maintenance. Replacing panels, battery banks, components. By the time you get payback you are reinvesting in replacement parts.
How do you connect the solar power, which is low voltage DC, to the commercial AC, typically 230 volt 50 Hz ? My understanding is that some kind of DC to AC converter has to be used, and this is an expensive device.
the best way to get an inverter is to build it out of a DC motor and an AC single phase motor. Then all you do is couple them together and just make sure that there is a capacitor bank before the DC motor and a battery bank for storage, and you will be capable of ensuring that you are always fed clean AC (unlike the digital inverters which are all square wave) and you'll have an inverter which is capable of lasting for years. Best to use old industrial motors, as they have interchangeable parts and are designed to last forever, especially when you're running them at less than maximum operating speeds.
Early adopters often get inferior products at a high price, that's normal. Efficiency will improve in leaps and bounds in the coming years but it is presently possible to be self sufficient, even contribute...
Also they recycle well. Elon will save the day:)
Imagine my surprise a large government subsidy attracting a whole lot of fly by nigh operators.
Australia has almost constant sunlight. Where I live in Houston Tx we have about 25% of the year cloudy. And lots of time partly cloudy. Still have to have the electric grid and all the generation capability going to take up the dead time. And electricity is very cheap here so it is not possible to ever break even.
its disgusting to see a warehouse full of used panels that have a potentially useful second life being smashed for scrap. At 20 to 25 years most panels will still produce 80% of their rated power so to see systems like these that are not even halfway through their lifespan being smashed up for scrap or land fill is appalling.
There is a massive market out there for these used panels and more importantly poorer countries that would appreciate items like this as treasure rather than scrap.
I am adding 20KWp at the moment using SolarEdge inverter system.
Why would I pay 9 000 dollars for 14 panels? 14 panels (100 Watts) are about 14 times 80 = 1120 dollars on ebay. Then one need (give or take) 10 truck batteries 100 Ah each (800 bucks) and an inverter (no more than 200 bucks), some cables and (if you must - I did not waste money on that) a charge controller.
If I would live in Australia and would have access to the roof (I live in an apartment house not having access to the roof) I'm pretty sure I would reach break even in less than 5 years (taking into account that both batteries and solar panels are aging and one has to add new panels and batteries permanently in order to maintain the yield). Here in Germany though it seams pretty much impossible (just not enough sun). I am living completely off grid for some 14 month now. I made some mistakes (my favorite one is to confuse plus and minus) which did cost so there is no chance that there will ever be a break even. And I only use electricity almost exclusively for the internet-rooter and the laptop. Both running on 12 volt so that there is no need for the inverter to be online. Such a frugal lifestyle like mine is certainly not for everybody. In essence: DIY Solar in Australia (if you do not care about environmental issues concerning production and disposal of solar panels)-> may be. In Germany -> quite doubtful.
And subsidies = grand larceny - period. Often there is a reason why some thingies are not profitable.
There are other types of solar energy, than rather than panels they use mirrors to heat oil and create energy, that's what is being used in high solar regions like Morocco, California and Spain, and they will last indefinetly, since you only replace the mirrors when they break.
Never see any comments regarding what happens when solar panels are producing and there is a disruption to the 'normal' service.
*If you lose power connection from the grid, you still have no power.
*Those solar panels are still producing electricity, but now it has no where to go (you lose the connection in both directions).
*The panels will increase their running temperature if they can't offload that electricity, if it's bad enough they can catch fire etc.
At least with a battery back-up there's somewhere for it to go, preventing that overheating.
the guy at 5:00 - there is no tree shade on his panels
also a BIG issue is the transfer wires MUST be correct gauge to transfer the full electric. many cheap solar companies will skimp on this and you wont get your full output.
Agree with those who point out that you have to determine that you have a reliable installer. You would not put up a windmill where the wind was blocked by trees or other buildings. Solar and wind can replace aging coal and petroleum generators to reduce reliance on carbon burning systems. Take away the coal and petroleum company producers subsidizes and see how the cost compares. Take into consideration all the resources it takes to produce petroleum and coal and the pollution left behind at each mine and drilling rig. Also consider the cost of getting coal and petroleum from the mine or well to the refinery or coal plant, then refining it and transporting it to the generation stations. Wind and solar storage and transmission cost in both money and resources are minuscule in comparison.
Where is the link to part 1
Would it be fair to say, solar pv is a newish technology that is increasing in efficiency every year, while prices decrease, spurring early adopters to upgrade their systems. That is the cause of 2nd hand panels, not failed systems that are beeing scraped. Huge difference there in cause verses effect.
Re organizing the power system in Australia sounds like it should get a little priority soon. (Perhaps PowerLedger's success will help push it in the right direction).
Buy quality panels and components otherwise you will never recover your costs !
I lost my investment in solar with one lightening strike.
I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the pile of panels piled up beside my house.
Don't put solar in lightening zones I found out the HARD WAY.
This is troublingly unfortunate experience, hoping insurance company covered damage and your able to recycle panels through bin services. I guess being on the grid is where the large corporations cover these kinds of mishaps costs we pay for in our service fees. Going off the grid we pay from our personal pocket for high maintenance costs. Hope you can restore your set up quickly all the best to you.
@@dcbeez5956
I live in central America.
No insurance on this loss.
I still have my night lights on solar.
One day I will put a kw in the yard and not one the roof.
A remedy for lightning is to put poles up with sharp metal conductors to drain off the static electrotype that causes lightning. Also steel buildings tend to not get struck much because of the sharp edge on the metal do a similar thing.
Sounds like some one is scamming you, the system doesnt work so they are blaming the lightening, This is the first time i have heard of this. The overload should burn out the electronics not the panels. get another opinion.
J Bird Exactly.
Finally an ABC that isnt scared of the public comments for once. Pack of kids
3:20 no gas powered el.plant, and no generator running on diesel at all??? nice animation, though.
People supplying there own power is a disgrace, as our government cant supply us cheap power. Why is this an issue, renewables. Wind is subsidised otherwise it would not be a viable business. Ask the power providers about power rise and how bad too much solar really is to the grid.
Probably could of saved 10 grand by buying deep cycle lead acid batteries instead of lithium ion powerwalls. Don't need great power density for something that doesn't move
Deep cycle lead battery are still the cheapest just. You need to manage the depth of the draw down. We have had led acid in remote area for about 35 years now and have had the battery last as long as 20 years and as short as 5.
Solar is a bit pricey, considering that it takes 10-20 years to recoup the investment, while wind turbines only take 6-24 months, depending on geographic location.
BUT solar is much more dependable and can be used anywhere, while wind turbines are often banned from cities, because they produce a lot of noise.
Long story short, government should definitely subsidize solar panels and storage batteries, but only from brands with a good reputation.
If you want to do it on your own, Tesla batteries seem to be the best option and any cheap solar panels with microinverters. That way groups of panels (or even every panel) have separate inverters and can function even when part of the solar array is in shade or defective.
Check prices now. Payback can be well under 4 years in Victoria.
solar power ok but i would still mine coal as a back up
The dark side of solar is it doesn't work in the dark :)
You may find Kirk Sorenson's Ted Talk very informative regarding thorium. The research that has already been done has convinced me that it may be one solution to the energy issue. Thanks, Joseph for your reply. Les
Oh my god, why is this my first time watching this? This is heartbreaking...I build solar arrays for a living. This hurts my heart at how many misconceptions are in this video....If anyone has watched this video and thought that solar actually has a "dark side" please reply to me and comment what questions you have. This is the single only topic that I would consider myself as expert at. I would be happy to answer any question about solar / renewable energy.
How many years it can last? Does it go bad after 25 years?
@@rajarampatel601 Hello, Im glad someone responded! haha. Most modules last between 25 and 30 years. Its not that they go "bad" but that they are a not close to maximum energy output as they use to be, from over the years and aging.
@@pleasedontpickonme42 so they can last over 50 years?
@@rajarampatel601 In theory, yes. Only problem with my answering that is, we have no definite answer because we don't have many panels over 50 years old.
I hope that there are better panels to buy in 50 years though.
Payback in 6 years is misleading. Notice the guy said "depending on energy prices/rates". Workday rates can be 4x higher than evening and weekend rates. If he counted the amount of money it would cost to fill his car at night and counted payback based on that amount 6 years x 4 = 24 years.
that kid in the blue shirt seems like he knows his stuff
watch out the dark arts of the fossil fuel propagandists are at work here. I've been working on a spell to get them to go away but it isn't complete.
where us part one???
Oh wow a solar ad on a video about the dark side of solar power..hmmmm
Government subsidies you to put solar on them but local power generation doesn't want them as they destablise the Power grid. The inverter technology needs to change. Big question is 'Does a residential solar installation actually benefit the environment ie environmental impact to get raw materials, manufacturing impacts, payback over life, disposal, recycling etc. Government is pushing Solar but is there better technologies ie LFTR reactors, we can replace power stations which are large cost install but over 40years have 10 fold payback. These are environmentally friendly, no waste, you wouldn't need batteries or solar. IS THERE BETTER IDEAS, REPLACE THE POWER SOURCE FOR BETTER OPTIONS, DONT OVERCOMPLEX THE POWER NETWORK.
Even with a company like Zen your warranty is very questionable
> some customers are very unhappy
many of those affected by the PV(mining...)-industries (esp. in nr. 1 procuder: China) areeven more unhappy. But "we" must have more energy ...
First of all she says more renewables helps keep power prices low (well relatively low) then she says taxpayers are subsidising renewables. So isn’t that a good thing? Would she prefer they subsidise coal (which they do as well). This is a confused opinion piece from the once independent ABC. We showed one unhappy consumer who’d been duped into a poor choice, but on average solar panels in Australia pay for themselves around the 5 year mark. If you see the cost of solar panel systems overseas you’ll realise that there is enough competition in the market to ensure retailers are not taking advantage of the subsidies as claimed by the ACCC representative. If only there was the same kind of competition among generators and wholesalers we would not be paying so much for electricity. But the ACCC can’t address that as the States have handed monopoly power over to them in legislation. Hypocrisy rules.
The guy who spent 40K on Solar Panels and batteries will never see the fruition of that investment. With very little effort on my part, I was able to ascertain what a waste of money Solar Panels were right back in 2000. I thought I would wait and see if the situation would improve, in relation to price, fundamental design and availability of after sales service. It's now 2020 and nothing has changed. There are new technologies out there for Solar Panels and I don't know why Australia has not embraced them. Now all we are left with are the annoying shonky calls from India.
People investing in solar panels are the reason why there were advancements in efficiency of solar panels. At some point drones were also bought by rich people who wanted expensive toys, but they helped the industry, same could be said for computers and a million other things. There was one guy that sold his house to buy one of the first home computers back in the day.
@@1GTX1 Solar panels have been around for decades and they are still outrageously expensive for the little power they generate.
The issue is that some of the people who install solar think that someone else will monitor and maintain it. This of course will not happen. Owners of solar systems are soley responsible for monitoring and maintaining Their Own power generation system.
Bs solar panels go to the landfill i will personally dig em up
if they do they should be recycled back into their base materials making them produces tons of carbon dioxide and uses massive amounts of nasty chemicals and electricity
@@kercchan3307 however they produce clean electricy for their entre life span and can be recycled into new panels so whats the problem i dont get it
@@iihoipoiii please do research into how electronics are made specifically how they make 99.999999999 pure silicon ingots. I used to work in a plant that made semiconductor chips from the wafers made from those ingots, we where a older facility using smaller wafers and we required 2 electric substations for our plant to operate, we received regular shipments of some of the nastiest chemicals available because they where required to make other chemicals and to make said chip sets. they where redundant safety systems for everything and if the neighbors knew the dangers of the chemicals we had to use they would have been protesting.
Of course your importing cheap Chinese panels so you are outsourcing the hazards of production along with the very likely environmental damage being done by cheap manufactures. that being said please recycles all electronic items dont landfill them.
I of course would prefer hydro electric, geothermal, and nuclear power plants. at least until fusion is available then i would dump the nuclear plants.
@@kercchan3307 How did you take OP to be the one thats burying panels in the dirt anyway?
I work in solar and i can tell you that used panels sit in the warehouse, until they can dump them somewhere as cheap as possible. The reason is that the rebate can only be claimed once against each panel, so once they are claimed they never re-use them. I havent seen any infrastructure to put the wasted panels in the hands of everyone that wants them. To get rid of them is all word of mouth at the moment.
Every irrigation pump in the remote Australian farming areas has a series of power poles going to them carrying 11KV through overhead transmissions, requiring maintenance and manpower to charge for the cost.
They can all be replaced, globally, with second hand panels sitting in installers warehouses. Countries that havent installed millions of kms of power poles and transmission lines, to power irrigation pumps, have a golden opportunity to achieve the same outcome with 1% of the cost, using western countries wasted panels.
Clumsily worded, if you dont get my drift let me know.
@@kercchan3307, Let me know of the process's required to recycle doped silica and the company that performs the task. Yes, Aluminium, steel and copper used in the process is re cycled but recycling the PV cells themselves is only talk at this stage. They are toxic landfill and nothing more.
If they used the wrong cable it could cause a system to underperform by losing power just do your homework or get a installer that has been in business for a while
As an American I would say this is a fair and balanced report, even if it doesn't answer all the questions. I was surprised to see irrelevant comments about coal subsidies.
our solar edge was down for almost a yr before an approved repair could be done
My Solar Edge has failed twice in 6 years, but both inverters were replaced within 3 weeks. Sun Gift have always provided good service.
@@richardharding9385 yeh our installer went bust took ages to find another not to mention we had no acess to our data logging and did not know it was not working untill the bills started comming again
Not every climate has the amount of sunshine hours that Australia has. So what about those of us in low sunshine climates and cold climates? Doesn’t work everywhere. I think we need to keep looking at other alternatives or improve the efficiencies of existing energy sources.
I would at least hope that each (used) Solar Panel could undergo full testing (Isc and max. voltage) before these Solar Panels enter the Landfill decision. I believe that many of these so-called "scrap" Solar Panels will still function for very many years. There will be a high percentage of these "scrap" Solar Panels that will still show 90% + of their rated output. This is because many people purchased Solar Packages a few years ago, and then ripped them off their roof - to replace with an 'upgraded' higher output Solar System. The tested (used) Solar Panels (quick 1 minute test) could flow back into a market - where the poorer people of this country could at least have some cheaper form of Solar Power for their high energy bills - at an affordable price. Sadly, we live in a world where it is easy to throw away to landfill many things that still have a service life. A small local government site positioned right next door to this huge Solar Panel Recycle Plant could bring some work and some sanity in the area of Solar Panel Reclamation. Thanks to the ABC. I had no knowledge that these problems even existed - in the scrapping of average 600 Solar Panels every day.
instead of irigation why not use tree lines??? u will save on that too
Dude who has gone through 3 inverters. Might want to spend more money to get a better inverter and perhaps check to see if the inverter is rated for the voltage of the system in use.
Night = dark side of the Earth's rotation.
My brother asked why "We are always fighting?"
Said I, " I don't seek you out, I do not desire contact with you. I don't like you. Fighting?"
"It's your fault, leave me alone, I leave you alone, no contact = no nothing
Cost one hell of a lot of money to save money.
We can and should be talking about coal. There are over 1600 coal burning power stations being built around the world. We have been sucker-punched.
Yep, we should be building more coal power plant... they are cheap and modern ones are clean.
Coal is a highly polluting means of generating power. Black coal is less polluting than brown, but neither are good. Just because other countries are building Coal stations doesn't mean we need to do so. Australia is a wealthy nation with plenty of space and sunlight to harness - I say we push renewables as utterly far as they can go before ever thinking of using fossil fuels again.
There are always good and bad companies in every business.
> There are always good and bad companies in every business
butin our (capitalFascist) $y$tem, the "good" ones are guaranteed to be quickly killed or swallowed