Peter, I have tested this workbench myself. In fact, I now have two of those. One of which had the same Problem - the holes are too tight. The other workbench was fine. There is a solution for that. Axminster Tools sells a "UJK Parf System Reamer for 20mm Holes". It costs about 27 EUR (something around 20 GBP). Also there is a combined Reamer and Chamfer tool, which I bought. This solved the problem. Since the MDF top is not moisture resistant anyways it makes sense to buy a reamer, at least in my opinion. Hope this helps. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. Yes, I have a 10MW Plus member in Germany that had the same thing - his first one was too tight, for his UJK Parf dogs, the second purchased a few days later was perfect. It's the inconsistency and uncertainty that doesn't inspire confidence, lol! And thanks, I do mention the UJK and Benchdogs.co.uk reamers in the video. 👍
Interesting. Got my first from Reidl, the second one from Lefeld. Same as Spamfabrik. Maybe it's different charges? Reidl been one of the first shops here where the MWB 100 was available.
I just bought this bench on the back of this review, thanks for introducing it Peter! I'm a site carpenter and MFT newbie but I think the bench is very well made. Its extremely robust, the perimeter t-slot will be very useful and its keenly priced. The dog holes are tight, my plan is to give them a fettle with a rolled up 120g sanding pad and see how I get on with the bench for a few weeks then look at reaming or replacing the top if need be. Very often perceived problems/issue fall by the wayside in time.
Great comment thanks! Totally agree re ‘perceived’ problems but if they weren’t pointed out as potential issues you’d get a lot of unhappy people post-purchase. 👍
Honestly, if it wasn't for the bench dog mess I'd be recommending this wholeheartedly, literally that folks buy two if they have the need and the means as you could build a really impressive system with them. As it is, well, there are alternatives... 🤷♂️ 👍
Fantastic rewiev Peter, as always 👍 I own 2 of this benches. One of them, the first one, with holes VERY snug, i had to widen them with the reamer i luckily had on hand. No Problems with the second one. Clamps and edges: 7 of 8 perfect, i used a file on the 8th one, now 8/8 perfect 😊 Added some extra holes and the Benchdogs Quad Hinge. Total satisfied with my benches now! Add: The adjusrable foot is available as spare part, for those who may be interested.
Even after watching this video, I was hesitant, but still decided to buy the Metabo table. Because its the only one sold here. Besides Festool. But 255 euros is 3-4 times cheaper than the original. Glad I did. Because the dog holes are actually almost 20mm. So my UJK, Dictum and Veritas dogs sit quite easily in the holes. Maybe UK version is different from European, or the changed their drills. And to my surprise the table is much heavier than expected.
For me it looks like the Benchdogs Basic is going to represent the best value for this type of bench. Another £150 for full compatability with existing MFT type accessories is well worth it and supporting a UK manufacturer will seal the deal. Good to have you review this gear so we don't waste our money finding out 😊
Thank you Peter. It's absolutely excruciating to hear that a manufacturer has actually done the operation of drilling those 'mft' holes but got the size wrong. Even cursory research makes it very chrystal clear that it's dia 20mm on 96mm centres. Mystifying as it may be to watch manufacturer after manufacturer fail the bench test, as a 'lucky' Parf Guide owner, for similar money I'm making benches and accessories sometimes from scrap for free. It's probably as quick to make a top as it is to procure this and sort it out with the reamer. These cheaper benches just don't make sense at the moment. Very, very bizarre.
at least you can ream them out, better too small than too large. id like these benches to be a little larger, allowing you to cross cut a standard cabinet size for example. but 200 quid is a reasonable price i suppose. i like the benchdogs one but it costs a lot more.
Getting a reamer seems to be an absolute must when getting this thing. I would hate to not use my bench dogs, fence, etc. Which actually cost more than this nifty table.
I wonder whether using a reamer would keep the center of the hole in exactly the same spot and therefore would the grid of holes still be at the required 90 degree angles? Anyone experience with that?
Hi Peter, First off, fantastic review! You really provided a lot of valuable insights. However, I noticed that there seems to be some confusion around the bore diameters. According to the Metabo website, the stated diameter is 20 mm, so it might be worth double-checking with Metabo to see if your table could be out of spec, as some have suggested. Given the influence your reviews have, especially on people who may not have double-checked the manufacturer's specifications, it would be great to clear up this point. This way, we can ensure the table's reputation isn't affected by any uncertainty, especially considering its value at this price point. Again, excellent review!
Thanks, but the undersized dog holes is not an odd, isolated 'out of spec' incident. As I say in the video, the 10MinuteWorkshop Plus membership is a decent size and spread across the UK and EU, and there are many Metabo bench owners within the members, some with more than one. About half of these benches members own are displaying this issue, and both the benches I've had were the same. There are other RUclipsrs who have found the same problem - early bench-owner @spanfabrik in Germany did a '7 quick fixes for your Metabo bench' video, including a jig for reaming out the dog holes with a forstner bit. I agree that the uncertainty is problematic, especially for anyone considering a purchase - will you get a 'good one' or not - but here's where we seem to disagree about my role in this; I don't work for Metabo, it's not my job to be their unpaid PR dept. I bought this bench genuinely hoping that it would be 'the one' that you could build a reasonably-priced system around, but unfortunately it falls short. There is more to be said about this bench, and some fairly straightforward fixes for the top and improvements that can be made overall, but I'm holding off on those for now, just on the off chance that I have some kind of dialogue with Metabo. We'll see. 🤷♂️ 👍
I have one of these (they have been sold out for months now so I can consider myself rather lucky) and I mostly agree. It sometimes requires an amount of "love" to get clamps and/or bench dogs where you want them but it all works with my unit. I suspect that over time it might all loosen a bit and turn out just fine. And to be fair, all of the MFT-specific products I have (mostly Bessey clamps of various types) do go in and out, just not very easily. Overall I really like it because it really is quite sturdy, especially considering the price and that it folds down to a pretty small size. Without a dedicated workshop space to build a permanent solution and without woodworking generating any income, this is just about the happiest medium for my case.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I found the smaller diameter of the VARIO-BENCH dogs fit into the too-small-holes. But its a "nice" example that while things can be produced (and copied) very cheap in China attention to the detail often is missing and it might be worth to buy from European manufacturers who actually produce in Europe and ensure better quality. A well made MFT can work for centuries - in that time frame a few € or $ saved won't play a big role for many of us I would guess.
It was funny to hear your criticise the extra holes as my immediate reaction on seeing them was "gosh, that would be useful!" 😂 I do a lot of scenic carpentry, so I've made 15° and 30° jigs for those cuts, but it would be nice to have it integrated into the table. The dog holes are a complete deal breaker, though. staggering, as it would have been such an attractive purchase otherwise.
😂 Ha! Well there you go - I’ve never used them but good to hear you’d find the handy! When you say ‘scenic carpentry’ is that theatrical sets, that sort of thing? Just curious, thanks! Yes, the dog hole thing is a mystery, with a whole load of ramifications eg if you reamed them out would you void the warranty? 🤔🤷♂️
Very true. Also, the fact that they're advertised as 20mm makes me slightly concerned that the rest of the layout isn't wholly accurate... Yes, I do theatre sets and occasionally events stuff. Last year, for instance, I did a castle with a whole load of semi-hexagonal steps.
check out the Vario-Bench and you get all angles you can ask for and a perfect fit between the holes and the bench dogs. Would be interested in that use case as well
Great review as always. Maybe Ralf at Benchdogs could do some 3/4inch dogs, save rhe messing around with a reamer. Or see what's available for the Kreg work benches, they are 3/4inch. Perhaps Metabo will realise their error and the Mk 2 version will have 20mm holes!
Thanks Peter, a pleasure as always, it does make you wonder what they're playing at, surely this can't be that difficult, generally speaking it does look fairly goos though, it will be interesting to see how the budget Excel model measures up ! I've been working on a couple of homemade folding trestles and an old wardrobe door, this summer so something like this could be very useful if they get it right !
After visiting Benchdog Tools and getting a demo of a excellent albeit expensive product, I guess other solutions appear to come up short. But you do make a good point for the holes not following the standard 20mm. I wonder what kind of product designer would lead the development of a product like this and totally ignore that simple thing. I wonder how if you could revisit your backyard mft solution, but using extrusions to build one yourself, custom you your needs/available space. Always looking forward to Friday mornings to see what you're up to. thanks Peter!
Thanks! Honestly we're talking very fine tolerances for the dog holes, so my guess would be poor QC rather than any malicious arrogance, and hopefully we'll be able to resolve the issue. As for the back yard MFT, I'd be very surprised if you could buy the extrusion and fittings needed for the same price as this Metabo. 👍
Good review, I just picked up 2 at Toolfair Sandown Park for £160 each. The Metabo man said the holes were a 20mm tight fit so maybe there’s an issue with quality control?! For the price I got them I won’t complain, just waiting for delivery 🚚 😊
That's a very good price - hard to complain at that. 👍 Yes, definitely a QC issue re the dog holes - there's a follow-on video (MFT Makeovers - ruclips.net/video/jsYrR3zWcEs/видео.html) where I've spoken to Metabo and changed the tops on this and the cheap Excel bench. 👍
Hello Peter - I bought the Metabo MFT from D&M tools who contacted Metabo Germany for me with the issues you identified. I’ve copied Metabo’s response below (I think they may be referring to your video but I’m not sure)- “On the first video you see that a lot of accessories that are made just a hair under 20 mm fit perfectly. For the UJK Benchdog you can simply use the supplied benchdogs to make it fit (twist in and out several times). But in the second video you than see what happens to benchdogs that have for example 19,9 mm in diameter.They go from perfect tight fit to little wobble (first hole in video not widened). The longer you use the table the more this will happen.’ D&M conclude by saying “Basically, they have made them very snug for a reason. With a few times using the table holes the accessories will fit better and maintain a higher tolerance.” Thanks and thanks for a great channel.
Thanks for that. I'm having discussions with Metabo UK at the moment as well and have had a word-for-word identical response. I'm afraid I think it's PR spin on a poor QC.
thank you for the video. nearly pulled the trigger on this one. seems like festool mft 3 is the only viable option out there despite the exorbitant costs.
I did a follow-on video recently; it’s a decent bench but there are some QC issues with the tops - you may get a good one, you may get a tight one - but these can be resolved by reaming the top out or replacing it. But it’s still a bench made to a budget. The Benchdogs MFT that I looked at when I visited the factory a few weeks back is coming along soon - mine arrives this week - so that’s a viable alternative if you’re after a quality portable bench and don’t mind spending the money. 👍
Thank you Peter. i think for now, I'll stick with the Bora Centipede and worktop I already have, and customize that for what I need. Side extrusions for clamping are a definite must, so glad to see Metabo included that. The non-standard size dog holes, though, at that price, is a non-starter. Seems like Metabo maybe got their tooling wrong for the dog holes? Hopefully they can fix that major issue and then the Metabo goes to the top of my list.
Yep. Incompetence: "we had no idea bench dogs were a thing..." or Arrogance: "we know exactly what we're doing but we don't make a bench dog so those paying customers can sort it out themselves..." Fortunately it is pretty trivial to sort out, but I really don't think paying customers should have to do that. 🤷♂️
I think 19mm is the original dog hole standard, but Festool championed the 20mm size. Who knows - a lot of the US and Canadian stuff is 19mm dog holes it seems. Rutlands sell 19mm bench dogs as well if anyone needs some (and isn't invested in 20mm like most of us!).
@@10MinuteWorkshopThe spec on Metabo's website claims 20mm dog holes, so it looks like they intended to be compatible. Seems more likely to be a manufacturing error and poor QC than arrogance. Still doesn't excuse it though.
@@somerandomusrname It might be a very tight tolerance that's the issue! An interference fit is no good. The hole needs to be about 20.3mm to fit a 20mm dog
Excellent balanced review as usual, Peter. How frustrating to have something so nearly great for the price but let down by such silly oversights/design choices. Good news for Benchdogs though; makes it easier to justify spending a bit more for their bench with none of these issues.
Cheers Eddy! Yes, we'll see; there are probably a couple of dozen of these benches amongst 10MW Plus members and they all have the same issue, but maybe it'll be fixed in a later run? 🤷♂️
Hi Peter, good and honest review on this MFT workbench, I don't think you are nit picking it's a shame as you said that your own bench dogs won't fit this MFT top. It looks a solid workbench, cant wait to see the next review, as always a great video Take care
Thank heavens for videos like this. At first I was excited to see such a useful looking MFT style bench for £200. But with the crazy dog hole sizing, I really can’t see the point. To me it is little more than - as Peter says - a paste table with holes in” - and I certainly can’t justify £200 on that :(
I am more than happy with my Wolfcraft table I purchased after your previous email, and this video endorses my choice, in my opinion anyway. I dont have the issues you experinced and if you add the plastic feet on the wolfcraft table it too stands on its side or end.
Glad to hear it. As I said in my video on that bench, relying on plastic add-ons to make it stand up is a poor design, and the lack of clamp-compatible extrusion - both the t-slot and the curved extrusion - was a deal breaker for me, even before we get to the bench top. But if it works for you then that's great - as I say in this video I think it's a better made bench than the Metabo, and I much prefer the legs on the wolfcraft. 👍
The holes have been tight on my Metabo table as well. I had to get the UJK chamfer&reamer and drill every single hole to get a functional table. I think it's a mistake in production and maybe Metabo already realized this, stopped/changed production and that is one of the reasons the table is hard to get at the moment. Metabo offers/will offer an replacement top, I read/heard somewhere. Other stuff you did not mention in your negative section: The feet fold out mechanism is somewhat easier with the Wolfcraft and looks even more easy with the Benchdogs. Locking every single leg with these fold outs is quite anoying and on mine they do not fit well - like your quality control part about the plastic corners. Hence, a hassle every time setting the table up. Adjusting the wiggle seems to be easier with the Metabo & Wolfcraft (I think I prefere the Wolfcraft here) compared to the Benchdogs metal feet idea. When drilling the holes of the Benchdog hinge jig, be aware that you will (probably) drill into/through the metal frame. You don't have to though, because the dogs are not going that far in! I routered the tabletop so that the jig sits flush. Then you have to drill through, but also the last O-Ring than sticks out underneath. This is not optimal of course. Also, if you do not want to detach the hinge every time, the table cannot be placed on the long sides anymore. This makes folding the legs very hard. Plastic feet sliding into the t-slot, like the Wolfcraft has, would help with that. I don't get what you do with the Wolfcraft. When you use the plastic feet mentioned above on the side, it stands just fine. Compared to the Wolfcraft the Metabo table has one bigger advantage: It is a lot slimmer when folded together. Thus, storing in tight spaces or under a bed is easier. On the other hand the Wolfcraft can be used with clamps on a bigger workbench or the floor. This is not really practical with the Metabo, I think. Since I am not totally happy with the Metabo either, I really would like to see a detailed video of the differences of the Benchdogs Basic vs Normal/Premium version from you. I saw the list, but some of the points I just don't understand (maybe a language thing...).
Some nifty features but I would disagree with your assessment of being a great bench with the holes being sub 20mm. I would like to try a 3/4" dog. I do enjoy your videos. Straight to the point and always just the pertinent stuff.
Yeah, I'm baffled by the hole size. Reminds me of the Bora Centipede MFT top I bought (then returned), thinking it was a reasonably economical way to get started, but the holes were neither exactly 3/4" OR 20mm. Incomprehensible.
Thanks you for the announced video! Really a shame that the holes are not 20mm as advertised. That is a nogo. So the product has not been fully thought through, I had hoped for a finished MFT with minor compromises for a good price.
Yep. I can only look at the product I've bought of course, but there are probably a couple of dozen of these bencxhes amongst 10MW Plus members and they all have the same issue. 🤷♂️
If you ream the holes, how do you ensure the centres remain on size. You'd have to make small pins to use until you had enough holes at 20mm to complete the rest.
An excellent video Peter, many thanks. I was almost ready to buy until you outlined the issues. I really hope they will fix them and you do a follow up. The dog hole size is odd. Were they aiming for the 3/4" (19mm) standard that they use in USA?
Thanks! Yes, you're not the first person to say this, and I think it's a huge mis-step from Metabo. No, definitely not 3/4", they actually state "20mm holes on 96mm centres" - they got one part right, lol! 🤷♂️ 😂
Peter, would be interesting to see if you could make your own aluminium extruded frame to place a regular mft top onto. This appears to be all that is really needed. Although I imagine the extrusions wouldnt be the cheapest to get something robust enough. Essentially a DIY version of the benchdogs mft top. The metabo nearly hit it, as the all round extrusion is the critical element to add jigs/guides/etc
Thanks Peter - great video with honest reviews as always. If I was to spend £20 and ream the 12:48 holes do you ou reckon the table is worth the price? Ken from Southport UK
Thanks! It’s a really tough one tbh Ken. I’m trying to find out if reaming out the dog holes voids the warranty, as that would be a major factor of course. I’m trying to get the Excel bench video out for Friday btw. 👍
I’ve been waiting for this video for a while. Was hoping for a good review but the short comings are disappointing. Now I await the Excel review because you can get them here in Ireland for €80 with free shipping. Hurry up😅
Great video, great series but I'm no nearer knowing which mft option to buy🤣 Peter, just wondering if the reamer self-centring, otherwise surely it would be a difficult task to maintain the accuracy of original dog hole pattern, if that makes sense?
Sorry about that! 😂 The reamer is self-centring, but the big issues that I can’t check the existing holes for square as you can’t get benchdogs in there! I’m having some turned so they’ll fit, then I’ll be looking into whether to ream the existing too or replace it. 👍
Replacement top for Metabo MFT bench has arrived. It is MRMDF but I wondered if I can use a clear finish on it? As my workshop gets very cold and damp over winter months...
I've always used a clear lacquer on MRMDF without any issues; use an old benchdog or piece of 20mm plastic conduit to clear out the dog holes before it dries though - don't as me how I learned that... 😬
Thanks Peter. Is the mdf top removeable just by taking out the screws in the brackets? I was wondering then if you add your own mdf top with the correct hole sizing it might be a bit more useful. Such a crazy thing for them to do. I was very tempted at the start of your video but no way now after seeing this hole sizing mess.
Yes, absolutely the top is swappable - you just need to be aware of the difference in size, again it’s a good thing that it’s slightly smaller than the standard MFT top. 👍
Thank you very much for the video 👍. Now I'm waiting for the presentation of the Vevor table. I wonder if it is possible to connect Metabo and Vevor together
Strange that they would get the hole size wrong. They are known for making quality tools. The spec on their website says 20mm / 25/32". I used a 25/32" foam cutter to make "20mm" holes in a foam insert for one of my systainers. My calculator says that 25/32" is ~19.84 mm. Would that be enough to be the issue?
This has got me wondering if I can simply attach an MFT top to my ancient Black and Decker fingertrap. Err... Workmate. Doable, but there are questions. What about access to the middle holes? Would it be stable enough? How big can it be? That sort of thing. No doubt someone has already done it, but I'll give it a few more days thinking about it before checking them out. The vast majority of the time a good solution has evolved over time, but if you look it up straight away there's a tendency to think that's the only way, when there might be a better one.
I'd love to see/hear/read a response from Metabo specifically about why their holes are undersized. I'm guessing they'd say that with the constant putting in and taking out of the bench dogs that the holes are bound to get bigger and to leave them undersized gives the holes extended life. But, that seems weak. Anyway, thanks for the video.
I think it’s just quality control - the tolerances are very fine between a good fit vs too loose and too tight. And I’d like to see/hear that response too! 😂👍
Are the holes spaced properly and square? That's the key question I have. The size can be fixed easily (yes, it's a hassle, but better snug than loose).
I was wondering if that particular table was made for the American market? Don't they typically use 3/4" dog holes which are 19.05mm thus a bit smaller? Although the box mentions 22.1 "Kg", maybe they put it in the wrong box ;)
I would hazard a guess that its not the best quality of mdf and has suffered from a kittle swelling which has nade the holes tighter? I made my own mft table top with the ujk jig and used some basic mdf from wickes, some of the holes on that have tightened up.. Id recommend to anyone buyung ine of these to seal the mdf, even letting it run down into the holes and then reaming them.
Shame about the shortcomings, at this price point it would have been right for me as a keen DIYer . Benchdogs for me is the one that stands out. Even as a DIYer I’ve invested in a lot of Benchdogs products. At my new home my workshop is more difficult to work from (terraced garden) therefore a portable MFT would be ideal. Great review and was waiting for this. Thanks Peter 👍🏻 regards Mike
I bet that the tolerances are just too tight. I bet it's an oversight. When Marius Hornberger made an mft you have to slightly oversize the hole to fit a 20mm dog hole. For £200 it's a fixer upper. One upside is that it seems sturdier than the festool mft. I think some wheels on this would have been helpful. I made my own table but honestly this seems tempting as an all in one for he van.
I put it down to poor QC (AKA incompetence) rather than anything maliciously arrogant, but the fact remains that many people have these benches where the dog holes are too small for standard bench dogs. At £200 it's cheap enough to be tempting, but also costly enough to expect to be better than it is. But yes, swap the top out for a 'proper' MFT top and you'll have a great portable bench that's still less than half the price of an MFT Basic. Tempting... 🤷♂️ 👍
Interesting product. There are a lot of these about now. I wouldn't buy the UJK personally, I have a UJK top and it was badly cupped out of the box, as were lal of the ones in the Axminster store when I was looking at them one day. The small dog holes would be a dealbreaker for me though - yes you can enlarge them, but not to CNC accuracy levels. Are those holes imperial 3/4 inches (19.5 mm) by any chance? Some of the Chinese OEMs make 19 mm dogs, so perhaps the top is designed to fit those. Metabo's quality control is all over the place, my father bought their site saw only to later find that they'd designed it using a completely inappropriate fine-pitch screw thread for the blade rise mechanism. They did at least produce a set of revised parts and supply them for free, but you had to completely strip the saw down to fit it which was not an easy task, and if you didn't happen across the issue on RUclips and forums you'd never know it was an issue - and a somewhat dangerous one at that. We also share an HC260 planer thicknesser which has needed a lot of work to get it to perform well, including completely rebuilding the guard safety switch mechanisms which were incorrectly assembled from the factory. It seems the best way to get an MFT on the 'cheap' is still to build one - though the benchdogs one I'm sure is fantastic albeit at a price. When I have to replace my MFT top again it will be a benchdogs top.
Thanks! No, they’re not imperial measurements; on closer inspection the holes are actually tapered towards the bottom! No idea what they were thinking, but it appears to be a deliberate approach. 🤷♂️👍
I do mention the 20mm reamer from UJK and Benchdogs in the video - though will almost certainly invalidate any warranty by using them, so pretty sure the under-sizing it isn’t by design. 👍
I've just received my mwb 100 bench and don't have that problem with the dogholes. My parf dogs fit just fine, so metabo may have fixed the problem in their second batch of benches or just upped their quality control.
Well that's good to know, but in all honesty - and assuming you're in the UK - the benches only landed here and started shipping late June, so I'd be very surprised if anyone was getting 2nd gen / 2nd batch benches yet. A 10MW Plus member in Germany was the first person I know to get one in May and his Parf Dogs fitted *very* tightly - he needed a set of grips to remove them - but a second one he bought a couple of days later had the same problem as mine. My guess would be poor QC overall, rather than batch variations. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'm not in the UK, but in mainland Europe. I received my second bench today and in this one my parf dogs fit very, very tightly. About 10 strokes up and down with rolled up piece of sandpaper seems to fix it, so I'm not sending it back. QC seems to be a bit sketchy indeed. What I do like is that it is more stable (racking) than a festool MFT and it can be height adjusted. And the price of course (paid less than 490 euro for 2 incl. shipping).
Hi Peter, according to the user manual, the holes shall have a diameter of 20 mm (25/32 inch). Do you get a bad sample as before with the non working feet?
The holes are actually tapered - a little under 20mm at the top, less than that at the bottom. In the 10MW Plus membership we have a couple of dozen of these benches across many different countries, and they're all reporting the same problem. The leg on my first one was a manufacturing fault, the second one is fine, biut both have the dog hole issue.
Random questions…… Could the dog-hole diameter be a manufacturing error, rather than a conscious design decision? And if you ream out each hole, would they definitely still be aligned? 👊🏼
Yes, absolutely it could be an error as the toleerances are so fine - lack of QC would come under 'incompetence' in my book. And that's the question isn't it? Can you guarantee perpendicualr-ness if you're using a hand drill and a reamer. 🤷♂️
It is a miss, the hole diameter being a stand out, but the legs look cheap and nasty. No doubt it is a tricky balance between quality/stability and weight.
Have you asked Metabo to comment on the hole size? Perhaps the MRF top has been affected when in storage ànd holes have somehow shrunk. Alternatively the holes could have been manufactured incorrectly - particularly as the Metabo accessories did not fit.
@@10MinuteWorkshop OK, but there is still the possibility that holes were made wrong (rather than specified incorrectly). It is possible Metabo has had tooling issues - however no excuse for bad QC.
The hole size issue is extremely weird given Metabo are a German company and so this is obviously built on metric sizes so if a standard 20mm bench dog doesn’t fit, what size did they make those holes to? Is it possible that they have used 3/4” for the US market which would be 19.05mm plus some tolerance, which might explain why the slightly undersized ones with the o-rings almost fitted.
No, they’re not 3/4”. They actually seem to be tapered - I’m expecting some bore gauges today so I can measure accurately, but they look like a hair under 20mm at the top and a fair bit less than that at the bottom. Very odd. 🤷♂️
My guess is that the holes were drilled when moisture content was too high. During manufacture and shipping the table top dried and shrunk! So even if it went through “quality control” they would not spot the issue. Only a guess ….
Wow those undersized holes are shocking. Love my team green one - my sense is all the things under that Metabo are also really fiddly. I want a multi-function *bench* - not a thing that’s multi-function at a bunch of things besides being a mft.
My workshop is like a kiln so that won't wash. Also there's a couple of dozen of these amongst the 10MW Plus members, across several countries, and they all have the same problem. 🤷♂️
What size is the dog hole, how far off is it from the advertised size? It seems that all problems can be easily fixed with some quality control but I guess that is my problem with most of my purchases that are geared to save me a few dollars.
There's no 'advertised size' for the holes - anyone can make them whatever size they choose, but the defacto standard is a 20mm hole on 96mm centres,and they only got one of those right. 🤷♂️
Great bench. Maybe just don’t buy it online but go to a shop and test the dog holes… then you don’t have to put in the extra work and buy the extra tool…
OK, I own the MFT, decided to add the Benchdogs version when it launches so I won't be buying this one. Just not in the market. BUT. For the person that does not mind (and probably expects to for budget items) fuss or "improve" something while saving a buck this might be just the ticket. There are some things I like: e.g. the straight legs.If I could I'd merge the design the MFT and Benchdog bench (with maybe a feature or two from Dashboard) - and charge for it - rather than go cheap. Now if Metabo comes out with V2 or bis, and addresses the QC problems they would have something.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I would recommend the UJK one though. At least I do not see the point in having a seperate reamer and champfer when UJK offers both in one tool?
I've got two of these, for 199€ each. Yeah the holes were not exact. But Ive got the reamer chamfer and bit from UJK. Now they are perfect. The plastic corner pieces are really annoying and stupid. Also you cannot clamp on the t track in 90 degrees to the top. That was a real bummer for me
could you do a little video on that reamer. i would like to see how it works out for accuracy of the holes alignment and how the edge holds up reaming that many holes
just a guess but wondering if Metabo did 2 production runs on the tops & there was a mix up ? - and some of you Euro guys got tops that were meant for the North American market ? comments indicate some of the holes fit 20mm dogs fine - and others not. Imperial measurement system here is by far more prominent - so it would make sense that they'd market a 3/4 in hole system here?
It’s a nice idea, but there’s been no US availability announced as yet, and the Metabo website states the holes are 20/96mm standard so all things considered I think it’s just a QC issue. 🤷♂️👍
Does anyone in the comments happen to know if the Excel plunge saw works with the new style Evolution rail? I've read that it's the same saw as the Parkside so I suppose it should...
Excel, Parkside, Lumberjack etc.. are all the Einhell pattern saw, and they work well on the new G2 Evo rails. I did a video on the evolution saw and rails a couple of weeks ago, and I refer to this specifically. 👍
I wonder if the bench is shipped from china, and the MDF doesn't really like the sea travel, which leads to the holes swelling and the dogs no longer fitting.
Nope. My workshop is like a kiln, and the first one was in there for weeks. The 10MW Plus members have a couple of dozen of these between them and in several countries and they all have the problem. Dog holes also taper from the top to the bottom, very strange.
![Backyard, DIY MFT on a Budget [video 490]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xIi-I04ocVM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Backyard, DIY MFT on a Budget [video 490]](/img/tr.png)
![My £80 Mini-me MFT [video 581]](/img/1.gif)
Peter, I have tested this workbench myself. In fact, I now have two of those. One of which had the same Problem - the holes are too tight. The other workbench was fine.
There is a solution for that. Axminster Tools sells a "UJK Parf System Reamer for 20mm Holes". It costs about 27 EUR (something around 20 GBP). Also there is a combined Reamer and Chamfer tool, which I bought. This solved the problem. Since the MDF top is not moisture resistant anyways it makes sense to buy a reamer, at least in my opinion.
Hope this helps. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. Yes, I have a 10MW Plus member in Germany that had the same thing - his first one was too tight, for his UJK Parf dogs, the second purchased a few days later was perfect. It's the inconsistency and uncertainty that doesn't inspire confidence, lol! And thanks, I do mention the UJK and Benchdogs.co.uk reamers in the video. 👍
Have to hope it was a bad batch? Not ideal but as long as it's sorted now...
Interesting.
Got my first from Reidl, the second one from Lefeld.
Same as Spamfabrik. Maybe it's different charges? Reidl been one of the first shops here where the MWB 100 was available.
Well done Peter, you have helped many people making a costly decision.
Thanks! 👍
I just bought this bench on the back of this review, thanks for introducing it Peter!
I'm a site carpenter and MFT newbie but I think the bench is very well made. Its extremely robust, the perimeter t-slot will be very useful and its keenly priced.
The dog holes are tight, my plan is to give them a fettle with a rolled up 120g sanding pad and see how I get on with the bench for a few weeks then look at reaming or replacing the top if need be. Very often perceived problems/issue fall by the wayside in time.
Great comment thanks! Totally agree re ‘perceived’ problems but if they weren’t pointed out as potential issues you’d get a lot of unhappy people post-purchase. 👍
I certainly hope that Metabo is watching or is aware of the shortcomings and makes the changes... cause its a good looking system!
Honestly, if it wasn't for the bench dog mess I'd be recommending this wholeheartedly, literally that folks buy two if they have the need and the means as you could build a really impressive system with them. As it is, well, there are alternatives... 🤷♂️ 👍
Fantastic rewiev Peter, as always 👍
I own 2 of this benches. One of them, the first one, with holes VERY snug, i had to widen them with the reamer i luckily had on hand.
No Problems with the second one.
Clamps and edges: 7 of 8 perfect, i used a file on the 8th one, now 8/8 perfect 😊
Added some extra holes and the Benchdogs Quad Hinge.
Total satisfied with my benches now!
Add: The adjusrable foot is available as spare part, for those who may be interested.
Thanks Michael! 👍
That's even more depressing. At least if all of them came with too small holes, you'd know that was what you were going to have to deal with.
Wow. I’m glad I saw this one. I was considering this table, and I’d have had no way to know the holes are not standard.
I was waiting for this video, very few reviews on youtube about it, thanks for the video!
Thanks!
Even after watching this video, I was hesitant, but still decided to buy the Metabo table. Because its the only one sold here. Besides Festool. But 255 euros is 3-4 times cheaper than the original. Glad I did. Because the dog holes are actually almost 20mm. So my UJK, Dictum and Veritas dogs sit quite easily in the holes. Maybe UK version is different from European, or the changed their drills. And to my surprise the table is much heavier than expected.
more recent video here - I Transform 2 ‘MFT’ Benches With 1 Easy Upgrade! [video 587]
ruclips.net/video/jsYrR3zWcEs/видео.html
For me it looks like the Benchdogs Basic is going to represent the best value for this type of bench.
Another £150 for full compatability with existing MFT type accessories is well worth it and supporting a UK manufacturer will seal the deal.
Good to have you review this gear so we don't waste our money finding out 😊
Yep. I had high hopes for this as a budget option, but as you say there’s a few too many uncertainties with it.
Thank you Peter. It's absolutely excruciating to hear that a manufacturer has actually done the operation of drilling those 'mft' holes but got the size wrong. Even cursory research makes it very chrystal clear that it's dia 20mm on 96mm centres. Mystifying as it may be to watch manufacturer after manufacturer fail the bench test, as a 'lucky' Parf Guide owner, for similar money I'm making benches and accessories sometimes from scrap for free. It's probably as quick to make a top as it is to procure this and sort it out with the reamer. These cheaper benches just don't make sense at the moment. Very, very bizarre.
at least you can ream them out, better too small than too large. id like these benches to be a little larger, allowing you to cross cut a standard cabinet size for example. but 200 quid is a reasonable price i suppose. i like the benchdogs one but it costs a lot more.
Getting a reamer seems to be an absolute must when getting this thing.
I would hate to not use my bench dogs, fence, etc. Which actually cost more than this nifty table.
Exactly! 👍
What is a reamer if I might ask?
EDIT: Ah, sorry. It's in the video!
@@namulit a tapered drill or bit use to make holes bigger. There's one recommended in the video
@@planespeaking Link in the description, too! 👍
I wonder whether using a reamer would keep the center of the hole in exactly the same spot and therefore would the grid of holes still be at the required 90 degree angles? Anyone experience with that?
Hi Peter,
First off, fantastic review! You really provided a lot of valuable insights.
However, I noticed that there seems to be some confusion around the bore diameters. According to the Metabo website, the stated diameter is 20 mm, so it might be worth double-checking with Metabo to see if your table could be out of spec, as some have suggested.
Given the influence your reviews have, especially on people who may not have double-checked the manufacturer's specifications, it would be great to clear up this point. This way, we can ensure the table's reputation isn't affected by any uncertainty, especially considering its value at this price point.
Again, excellent review!
Thanks, but the undersized dog holes is not an odd, isolated 'out of spec' incident. As I say in the video, the 10MinuteWorkshop Plus membership is a decent size and spread across the UK and EU, and there are many Metabo bench owners within the members, some with more than one. About half of these benches members own are displaying this issue, and both the benches I've had were the same. There are other RUclipsrs who have found the same problem - early bench-owner @spanfabrik in Germany did a '7 quick fixes for your Metabo bench' video, including a jig for reaming out the dog holes with a forstner bit.
I agree that the uncertainty is problematic, especially for anyone considering a purchase - will you get a 'good one' or not - but here's where we seem to disagree about my role in this; I don't work for Metabo, it's not my job to be their unpaid PR dept. I bought this bench genuinely hoping that it would be 'the one' that you could build a reasonably-priced system around, but unfortunately it falls short.
There is more to be said about this bench, and some fairly straightforward fixes for the top and improvements that can be made overall, but I'm holding off on those for now, just on the off chance that I have some kind of dialogue with Metabo. We'll see. 🤷♂️ 👍
I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Excel bench. Two for the price of one Metabo is very tempting.
I have one of these (they have been sold out for months now so I can consider myself rather lucky) and I mostly agree. It sometimes requires an amount of "love" to get clamps and/or bench dogs where you want them but it all works with my unit. I suspect that over time it might all loosen a bit and turn out just fine. And to be fair, all of the MFT-specific products I have (mostly Bessey clamps of various types) do go in and out, just not very easily.
Overall I really like it because it really is quite sturdy, especially considering the price and that it folds down to a pretty small size. Without a dedicated workshop space to build a permanent solution and without woodworking generating any income, this is just about the happiest medium for my case.
just an aside... very nice installation at 10:17!
Thanks you; my last install as a fitted furniture guy. 👍
Great video. Not 20mm. Wow. I am speechless.
Thanks. They are *supposed* to be 20mm according to the website. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop wow. That makes it worse. Much worse.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I found the smaller diameter of the VARIO-BENCH dogs fit into the too-small-holes. But its a "nice" example that while things can be produced (and copied) very cheap in China attention to the detail often is missing and it might be worth to buy from European manufacturers who actually produce in Europe and ensure better quality. A well made MFT can work for centuries - in that time frame a few € or $ saved won't play a big role for many of us I would guess.
It was funny to hear your criticise the extra holes as my immediate reaction on seeing them was "gosh, that would be useful!" 😂 I do a lot of scenic carpentry, so I've made 15° and 30° jigs for those cuts, but it would be nice to have it integrated into the table.
The dog holes are a complete deal breaker, though. staggering, as it would have been such an attractive purchase otherwise.
😂 Ha! Well there you go - I’ve never used them but good to hear you’d find the handy! When you say ‘scenic carpentry’ is that theatrical sets, that sort of thing? Just curious, thanks! Yes, the dog hole thing is a mystery, with a whole load of ramifications eg if you reamed them out would you void the warranty? 🤔🤷♂️
Very true. Also, the fact that they're advertised as 20mm makes me slightly concerned that the rest of the layout isn't wholly accurate...
Yes, I do theatre sets and occasionally events stuff. Last year, for instance, I did a castle with a whole load of semi-hexagonal steps.
check out the Vario-Bench and you get all angles you can ask for and a perfect fit between the holes and the bench dogs. Would be interested in that use case as well
Great review as always. Maybe Ralf at Benchdogs could do some 3/4inch dogs, save rhe messing around with a reamer. Or see what's available for the Kreg work benches, they are 3/4inch. Perhaps Metabo will realise their error and the Mk 2 version will have 20mm holes!
Thanks Peter, a pleasure as always, it does make you wonder what they're playing at, surely this can't be that difficult, generally speaking it does look fairly goos though, it will be interesting to see how the budget Excel model measures up !
I've been working on a couple of homemade folding trestles and an old wardrobe door, this summer so something like this could be very useful if they get it right !
After visiting Benchdog Tools and getting a demo of a excellent albeit expensive product, I guess other solutions appear to come up short. But you do make a good point for the holes not following the standard 20mm. I wonder what kind of product designer would lead the development of a product like this and totally ignore that simple thing. I wonder how if you could revisit your backyard mft solution, but using extrusions to build one yourself, custom you your needs/available space. Always looking forward to Friday mornings to see what you're up to. thanks Peter!
Thanks! Honestly we're talking very fine tolerances for the dog holes, so my guess would be poor QC rather than any malicious arrogance, and hopefully we'll be able to resolve the issue. As for the back yard MFT, I'd be very surprised if you could buy the extrusion and fittings needed for the same price as this Metabo. 👍
Good review, I just picked up 2 at Toolfair Sandown Park for £160 each. The Metabo man said the holes were a 20mm tight fit so maybe there’s an issue with quality control?! For the price I got them I won’t complain, just waiting for delivery 🚚 😊
That's a very good price - hard to complain at that. 👍 Yes, definitely a QC issue re the dog holes - there's a follow-on video (MFT Makeovers - ruclips.net/video/jsYrR3zWcEs/видео.html) where I've spoken to Metabo and changed the tops on this and the cheap Excel bench. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshopThanks for the reply Peter, I’ll check out the other video! 👍🏼😉
Think I'll have to keep making my own
Cheeers for sharing Peter.
Hello Peter - I bought the Metabo MFT from D&M tools who contacted Metabo Germany for me with the issues you identified. I’ve copied Metabo’s response below (I think they may be referring to your video but I’m not sure)-
“On the first video you see that a lot of accessories that are made just a hair under 20 mm fit perfectly. For the UJK Benchdog you can simply use the supplied benchdogs to make it fit (twist in and out several times). But in the second video you than see what happens to benchdogs that have for example 19,9 mm in diameter.They go from perfect tight fit to little wobble (first hole in video not widened). The longer you use the table the more this will happen.’
D&M conclude by saying “Basically, they have made them very snug for a reason. With a few times using the table holes the accessories will fit better and maintain a higher tolerance.”
Thanks and thanks for a great channel.
Thanks for that. I'm having discussions with Metabo UK at the moment as well and have had a word-for-word identical response. I'm afraid I think it's PR spin on a poor QC.
thank you for the video. nearly pulled the trigger on this one. seems like festool mft 3 is the only viable option out there despite the exorbitant costs.
I did a follow-on video recently; it’s a decent bench but there are some QC issues with the tops - you may get a good one, you may get a tight one - but these can be resolved by reaming the top out or replacing it. But it’s still a bench made to a budget. The Benchdogs MFT that I looked at when I visited the factory a few weeks back is coming along soon - mine arrives this week - so that’s a viable alternative if you’re after a quality portable bench and don’t mind spending the money. 👍
Thank you Peter. i think for now, I'll stick with the Bora Centipede and worktop I already have, and customize that for what I need. Side extrusions for clamping are a definite must, so glad to see Metabo included that. The non-standard size dog holes, though, at that price, is a non-starter. Seems like Metabo maybe got their tooling wrong for the dog holes? Hopefully they can fix that major issue and then the Metabo goes to the top of my list.
I know a few folks with more than one, some are good, others not. I think it’s just a quality control issue as the tolerances are so fine. 🤷♂️👍
That hole size thing seems to be a _massive_ error of judgement
Yep. Incompetence: "we had no idea bench dogs were a thing..." or Arrogance: "we know exactly what we're doing but we don't make a bench dog so those paying customers can sort it out themselves..." Fortunately it is pretty trivial to sort out, but I really don't think paying customers should have to do that. 🤷♂️
It’ll be purchased by people starting out who will buy bench dogs that don’t fit. Very frustrating.
I think 19mm is the original dog hole standard, but Festool championed the 20mm size. Who knows - a lot of the US and Canadian stuff is 19mm dog holes it seems. Rutlands sell 19mm bench dogs as well if anyone needs some (and isn't invested in 20mm like most of us!).
@@10MinuteWorkshopThe spec on Metabo's website claims 20mm dog holes, so it looks like they intended to be compatible. Seems more likely to be a manufacturing error and poor QC than arrogance. Still doesn't excuse it though.
@@somerandomusrname It might be a very tight tolerance that's the issue! An interference fit is no good. The hole needs to be about 20.3mm to fit a 20mm dog
Can't wait to see the video on the vevor workbench
It’s coming, should be out Friday! 👍🤞
@@10MinuteWorkshop awesome! Thanks for the content.
Excellent balanced review as usual, Peter. How frustrating to have something so nearly great for the price but let down by such silly oversights/design choices.
Good news for Benchdogs though; makes it easier to justify spending a bit more for their bench with none of these issues.
Cheers Eddy! Yes, we'll see; there are probably a couple of dozen of these benches amongst 10MW Plus members and they all have the same issue, but maybe it'll be fixed in a later run? 🤷♂️
I have 2 cheap trestles, that have a cut out for 2by material to run along them and chuck a mft over the top of it.
Hi Peter, good and honest review on this MFT workbench, I don't think you are nit picking it's a shame as you said that your own bench dogs won't fit this MFT top. It looks a solid workbench, cant wait to see the next review, as always a great video Take care
Thanks Shaun! 👍
Thank heavens for videos like this. At first I was excited to see such a useful looking MFT style bench for £200.
But with the crazy dog hole sizing, I really can’t see the point. To me it is little more than - as Peter says - a paste table with holes in” - and I certainly can’t justify £200 on that :(
Thanks. Honestly, it’s a great bench; at £200 it’s cheap enough to be really tempting, but expensive enough that it should be better.👍
Peter, Thank you so much. Very helpfull video... Again.👍
I am more than happy with my Wolfcraft table I purchased after your previous email, and this video endorses my choice, in my opinion anyway. I dont have the issues you experinced and if you add the plastic feet on the wolfcraft table it too stands on its side or end.
Glad to hear it. As I said in my video on that bench, relying on plastic add-ons to make it stand up is a poor design, and the lack of clamp-compatible extrusion - both the t-slot and the curved extrusion - was a deal breaker for me, even before we get to the bench top. But if it works for you then that's great - as I say in this video I think it's a better made bench than the Metabo, and I much prefer the legs on the wolfcraft. 👍
Thanks for the review on the table
The holes have been tight on my Metabo table as well. I had to get the UJK chamfer&reamer and drill every single hole to get a functional table. I think it's a mistake in production and maybe Metabo already realized this, stopped/changed production and that is one of the reasons the table is hard to get at the moment.
Metabo offers/will offer an replacement top, I read/heard somewhere. Other stuff you did not mention in your negative section:
The feet fold out mechanism is somewhat easier with the Wolfcraft and looks even more easy with the Benchdogs. Locking every single leg with these fold outs is quite anoying and on mine they do not fit well - like your quality control part about the plastic corners. Hence, a hassle every time setting the table up.
Adjusting the wiggle seems to be easier with the Metabo & Wolfcraft (I think I prefere the Wolfcraft here) compared to the Benchdogs metal feet idea.
When drilling the holes of the Benchdog hinge jig, be aware that you will (probably) drill into/through the metal frame. You don't have to though, because the dogs are not going that far in! I routered the tabletop so that the jig sits flush. Then you have to drill through, but also the last O-Ring than sticks out underneath. This is not optimal of course. Also, if you do not want to detach the hinge every time, the table cannot be placed on the long sides anymore. This makes folding the legs very hard. Plastic feet sliding into the t-slot, like the Wolfcraft has, would help with that.
I don't get what you do with the Wolfcraft. When you use the plastic feet mentioned above on the side, it stands just fine.
Compared to the Wolfcraft the Metabo table has one bigger advantage: It is a lot slimmer when folded together. Thus, storing in tight spaces or under a bed is easier. On the other hand the Wolfcraft can be used with clamps on a bigger workbench or the floor. This is not really practical with the Metabo, I think.
Since I am not totally happy with the Metabo either, I really would like to see a detailed video of the differences of the Benchdogs Basic vs Normal/Premium version from you. I saw the list, but some of the points I just don't understand (maybe a language thing...).
Thanks for your review. Don`t know what happened to Metabo to use these holes....
The tolerances are very tight on dog-holes, and my guess would be they just got the wrong side of them. 🤷♂️👍
Some nifty features but I would disagree with your assessment of being a great bench with the holes being sub 20mm. I would like to try a 3/4" dog. I do enjoy your videos. Straight to the point and always just the pertinent stuff.
As I say it’s a great bench *BUT* know what you’re getting into…👍 And thanks!
Yeah, I'm baffled by the hole size. Reminds me of the Bora Centipede MFT top I bought (then returned), thinking it was a reasonably economical way to get started, but the holes were neither exactly 3/4" OR 20mm. Incomprehensible.
Yep, baffling. 🤷♂️
Thanks you for the announced video!
Really a shame that the holes are not 20mm as advertised. That is a nogo.
So the product has not been fully thought through, I had hoped for a finished MFT with minor compromises for a good price.
Yep. I can only look at the product I've bought of course, but there are probably a couple of dozen of these bencxhes amongst 10MW Plus members and they all have the same issue. 🤷♂️
If you ream the holes, how do you ensure the centres remain on size. You'd have to make small pins to use until you had enough holes at 20mm to complete the rest.
Thank you for your valuable Opinions, Advices and Tests ..!! NEVERTHELESS.. 12.50 minutes ARE NOT 10 minute Workshop !!! LOL.
An excellent video Peter, many thanks. I was almost ready to buy until you outlined the issues. I really hope they will fix them and you do a follow up. The dog hole size is odd. Were they aiming for the 3/4" (19mm) standard that they use in USA?
Thanks! Yes, you're not the first person to say this, and I think it's a huge mis-step from Metabo. No, definitely not 3/4", they actually state "20mm holes on 96mm centres" - they got one part right, lol! 🤷♂️ 😂
Peter, would be interesting to see if you could make your own aluminium extruded frame to place a regular mft top onto. This appears to be all that is really needed. Although I imagine the extrusions wouldnt be the cheapest to get something robust enough. Essentially a DIY version of the benchdogs mft top. The metabo nearly hit it, as the all round extrusion is the critical element to add jigs/guides/etc
The extrusion can end up copsting as much as the entire Metabo bench. 🤷♂️
Thanks Peter - great video with honest reviews as always.
If I was to spend £20 and ream the 12:48 holes do you ou reckon the table is worth the price?
Ken from Southport UK
Thanks! It’s a really tough one tbh Ken. I’m trying to find out if reaming out the dog holes voids the warranty, as that would be a major factor of course. I’m trying to get the Excel bench video out for Friday btw. 👍
Can it be adjusted to the same height as an MFT or CMS, 90 cm I think it is? Would be a nice multi function outfeed table for the CMS with saw.
I’ve been waiting for this video for a while. Was hoping for a good review but the short comings are disappointing. Now I await the Excel review because you can get them here in Ireland for €80 with free shipping. Hurry up😅
The Metabo is a great bench but a shame about the top. 🤷♂️ 👍
Great video, great series but I'm no nearer knowing which mft option to buy🤣
Peter, just wondering if the reamer self-centring, otherwise surely it would be a difficult task to maintain the accuracy of original dog hole pattern, if that makes sense?
Sorry about that! 😂 The reamer is self-centring, but the big issues that I can’t check the existing holes for square as you can’t get benchdogs in there! I’m having some turned so they’ll fit, then I’ll be looking into whether to ream the existing too or replace it. 👍
Replacement top for Metabo MFT bench has arrived. It is MRMDF but I wondered if I can use a clear finish on it? As my workshop gets very cold and damp over winter months...
I've always used a clear lacquer on MRMDF without any issues; use an old benchdog or piece of 20mm plastic conduit to clear out the dog holes before it dries though - don't as me how I learned that... 😬
Thanks Peter. Is the mdf top removeable just by taking out the screws in the brackets? I was wondering then if you add your own mdf top with the correct hole sizing it might be a bit more useful. Such a crazy thing for them to do. I was very tempted at the start of your video but no way now after seeing this hole sizing mess.
Yes, absolutely the top is swappable - you just need to be aware of the difference in size, again it’s a good thing that it’s slightly smaller than the standard MFT top. 👍
Thank you very much for the video 👍. Now I'm waiting for the presentation of the Vevor table. I wonder if it is possible to connect Metabo and Vevor together
I'll get to it as soon as I can; they are different sizes though, and the Vevor/excel doesn't have a t-slot in the extrusion.
@@10MinuteWorkshop There is no t track but maybe it can be connected 👍
"...and see how it stands up." I see what you did there!
😉
It would be interesting to know whether those are 3/4 inch holes. It's the "other" standard hole size.
Definitely not 3/4" 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop really weird, thanks for the response
Fantastic review, Peter! Thanks!!! 😃
Really interesting bench indeed! Looking forward to the next review!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too! 👍
Strange that they would get the hole size wrong. They are known for making quality tools. The spec on their website says 20mm / 25/32". I used a 25/32" foam cutter to make "20mm" holes in a foam insert for one of my systainers. My calculator says that 25/32" is ~19.84 mm. Would that be enough to be the issue?
No, the holes actually taper - wider at the top, narrower at the bottom. Weird. 🤷♂️
So are the holes U.S 3/4" style or just badly milled 20mm?
Definitely not imperial, and they actually taper from top to bottom, so very nicely milled, just not in a size that anyone wants. 🤷♂️
This has got me wondering if I can simply attach an MFT top to my ancient Black and Decker fingertrap. Err... Workmate. Doable, but there are questions. What about access to the middle holes? Would it be stable enough? How big can it be? That sort of thing. No doubt someone has already done it, but I'll give it a few more days thinking about it before checking them out. The vast majority of the time a good solution has evolved over time, but if you look it up straight away there's a tendency to think that's the only way, when there might be a better one.
I'd love to see/hear/read a response from Metabo specifically about why their holes are undersized. I'm guessing they'd say that with the constant putting in and taking out of the bench dogs that the holes are bound to get bigger and to leave them undersized gives the holes extended life. But, that seems weak. Anyway, thanks for the video.
I think it’s just quality control - the tolerances are very fine between a good fit vs too loose and too tight. And I’d like to see/hear that response too! 😂👍
Rein - raus....
Ich musste meinen Benchdog mit der Wasserpumpenzange rausziehen. Dabei ging der soooooo schwer gar nicht rein.
Are the holes spaced properly and square? That's the key question I have. The size can be fixed easily (yes, it's a hassle, but better snug than loose).
Well, that the problem isn't it? I'll never know until I can get bench dogs in there. 🤷♂️
I was just thinking of buying one of them. Now not so sure any longer. The problem with the size of the holes is really a big bummer.
It’s a great shame if you want to use Benchdogs or fence dogs. If it’s just for clamping then it’s excellent for the money. 👍
I was wondering if that particular table was made for the American market? Don't they typically use 3/4" dog holes which are 19.05mm thus a bit smaller? Although the box mentions 22.1 "Kg", maybe they put it in the wrong box ;)
No, definitely not imperial. 👍
I would hazard a guess that its not the best quality of mdf and has suffered from a kittle swelling which has nade the holes tighter? I made my own mft table top with the ujk jig and used some basic mdf from wickes, some of the holes on that have tightened up..
Id recommend to anyone buyung ine of these to seal the mdf, even letting it run down into the holes and then reaming them.
Shame about the shortcomings, at this price point it would have been right for me as a keen DIYer . Benchdogs for me is the one that stands out. Even as a DIYer I’ve invested in a lot of Benchdogs products. At my new home my workshop is more difficult to work from (terraced garden) therefore a portable MFT would be ideal. Great review and was waiting for this. Thanks Peter 👍🏻 regards Mike
Thanks Mike. This is a great bench, but clearly ‘built to a price’ and the dog hole situation just a mess, albeit easily resolved. 🤷♂️👍
I bet that the tolerances are just too tight. I bet it's an oversight. When Marius Hornberger made an mft you have to slightly oversize the hole to fit a 20mm dog hole. For £200 it's a fixer upper. One upside is that it seems sturdier than the festool mft.
I think some wheels on this would have been helpful.
I made my own table but honestly this seems tempting as an all in one for he van.
I put it down to poor QC (AKA incompetence) rather than anything maliciously arrogant, but the fact remains that many people have these benches where the dog holes are too small for standard bench dogs. At £200 it's cheap enough to be tempting, but also costly enough to expect to be better than it is. But yes, swap the top out for a 'proper' MFT top and you'll have a great portable bench that's still less than half the price of an MFT Basic. Tempting... 🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop It would be interesting to see whether Metabo rectify the error. Perhaps you could (or I could) email them?
@@planespeaking One of the 10MW Plus members has already started that process, so we'll see how it goes. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop excellent. I will look out for an update
Interesting product. There are a lot of these about now. I wouldn't buy the UJK personally, I have a UJK top and it was badly cupped out of the box, as were lal of the ones in the Axminster store when I was looking at them one day. The small dog holes would be a dealbreaker for me though - yes you can enlarge them, but not to CNC accuracy levels. Are those holes imperial 3/4 inches (19.5 mm) by any chance? Some of the Chinese OEMs make 19 mm dogs, so perhaps the top is designed to fit those. Metabo's quality control is all over the place, my father bought their site saw only to later find that they'd designed it using a completely inappropriate fine-pitch screw thread for the blade rise mechanism. They did at least produce a set of revised parts and supply them for free, but you had to completely strip the saw down to fit it which was not an easy task, and if you didn't happen across the issue on RUclips and forums you'd never know it was an issue - and a somewhat dangerous one at that. We also share an HC260 planer thicknesser which has needed a lot of work to get it to perform well, including completely rebuilding the guard safety switch mechanisms which were incorrectly assembled from the factory. It seems the best way to get an MFT on the 'cheap' is still to build one - though the benchdogs one I'm sure is fantastic albeit at a price. When I have to replace my MFT top again it will be a benchdogs top.
Thanks! No, they’re not imperial measurements; on closer inspection the holes are actually tapered towards the bottom! No idea what they were thinking, but it appears to be a deliberate approach. 🤷♂️👍
I hope Pro Trade have still got my Metabo MFT that I still need to collect after buying it online almost month ago. 😂
Thanks for sharing.
Is there a 20mm ream for dogs? Is the logic make it smaller so it can be fitted by the user?
I do mention the 20mm reamer from UJK and Benchdogs in the video - though will almost certainly invalidate any warranty by using them, so pretty sure the under-sizing it isn’t by design. 👍
I've just received my mwb 100 bench and don't have that problem with the dogholes. My parf dogs fit just fine, so metabo may have fixed the problem in their second batch of benches or just upped their quality control.
Well that's good to know, but in all honesty - and assuming you're in the UK - the benches only landed here and started shipping late June, so I'd be very surprised if anyone was getting 2nd gen / 2nd batch benches yet. A 10MW Plus member in Germany was the first person I know to get one in May and his Parf Dogs fitted *very* tightly - he needed a set of grips to remove them - but a second one he bought a couple of days later had the same problem as mine. My guess would be poor QC overall, rather than batch variations. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'm not in the UK, but in mainland Europe. I received my second bench today and in this one my parf dogs fit very, very tightly. About 10 strokes up and down with rolled up piece of sandpaper seems to fix it, so I'm not sending it back. QC seems to be a bit sketchy indeed. What I do like is that it is more stable (racking) than a festool MFT and it can be height adjusted. And the price of course (paid less than 490 euro for 2 incl. shipping).
Hi Peter,
according to the user manual, the holes shall have a diameter of 20 mm (25/32 inch).
Do you get a bad sample as before with the non working feet?
The holes are actually tapered - a little under 20mm at the top, less than that at the bottom. In the 10MW Plus membership we have a couple of dozen of these benches across many different countries, and they're all reporting the same problem. The leg on my first one was a manufacturing fault, the second one is fine, biut both have the dog hole issue.
Random questions……
Could the dog-hole diameter be a manufacturing error, rather than a conscious design decision?
And if you ream out each hole, would they definitely still be aligned? 👊🏼
Yes, absolutely it could be an error as the toleerances are so fine - lack of QC would come under 'incompetence' in my book. And that's the question isn't it? Can you guarantee perpendicualr-ness if you're using a hand drill and a reamer. 🤷♂️
Do you have Bora in the UK? Would love to see a review of the 2x4 Centipede and table top (20mm/96mm) that I bought.
Yes we do; I don't like MFT tops on separate legs, personally, so it's not something I'd want to spend time on. 👍
It is a miss, the hole diameter being a stand out, but the legs look cheap and nasty. No doubt it is a tricky balance between quality/stability and weight.
Have you asked Metabo to comment on the hole size?
Perhaps the MRF top has been affected when in storage ànd holes have somehow shrunk.
Alternatively the holes could have been manufactured incorrectly - particularly as the Metabo accessories did not fit.
If the MDF had shrunk I’m pretty sure the holes would have got bigger? 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop OK, but there is still the possibility that holes were made wrong (rather than specified incorrectly).
It is possible Metabo has had tooling issues - however no excuse for bad QC.
The hole size issue is extremely weird given Metabo are a German company and so this is obviously built on metric sizes so if a standard 20mm bench dog doesn’t fit, what size did they make those holes to? Is it possible that they have used 3/4” for the US market which would be 19.05mm plus some tolerance, which might explain why the slightly undersized ones with the o-rings almost fitted.
No, they’re not 3/4”. They actually seem to be tapered - I’m expecting some bore gauges today so I can measure accurately, but they look like a hair under 20mm at the top and a fair bit less than that at the bottom. Very odd. 🤷♂️
My guess is that the holes were drilled when moisture content was too high. During manufacture and shipping the table top dried and shrunk! So even if it went through “quality control” they would not spot the issue. Only a guess ….
If the top shrank, then the holes would be bigger, no? 🤷♂️👍
Mmmh. Probably. Perhaps you should put it outside in the sun😂
Are the holes close enough to size that you could you ream them out with the UJK reamer?
Or the Benchdogs, as I mention in the video. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Missed that 😂 sorry!
Wow those undersized holes are shocking.
Love my team green one - my sense is all the things under that Metabo are also really fiddly. I want a multi-function *bench* - not a thing that’s multi-function at a bunch of things besides being a mft.
Will Metabo say the holes are small due to the humidity levels in your workshop?
My workshop is like a kiln so that won't wash. Also there's a couple of dozen of these amongst the 10MW Plus members, across several countries, and they all have the same problem. 🤷♂️
Is it possible they drilled 3/4" holes instead of 20mm?
Nope, not 3/4” either. 🤷♂️
I prefer the lighter of the 2 diy ones you made a while ago,rather than the bought ones for a mobile mft, and value
Yep, good to have the choice, and mine were definitely made for the situations I found myself working in. 👍
What size is the dog hole, how far off is it from the advertised size? It seems that all problems can be easily fixed with some quality control but I guess that is my problem with most of my purchases that are geared to save me a few dollars.
There's no 'advertised size' for the holes - anyone can make them whatever size they choose, but the defacto standard is a 20mm hole on 96mm centres,and they only got one of those right. 🤷♂️
I find that these mdf top bench tops need to be sealed with a couple of coats of wipe on varnish to waterproof them
I need a less flammable bench so im going with a welding bench and when i need to cut would im just gonna put a 6mm waste board down
I bet someone didn't set their CNC offsets rignt resulting in the narrow holes, lack of quality control didn't catch the problem.
You may be right, and they may have fixed the issue, but there's a lot of Metabo bench owners who have to deal with this themselves now. 🤷♂️
Great bench. Maybe just don’t buy it online but go to a shop and test the dog holes… then you don’t have to put in the extra work and buy the extra tool…
Or buy online at a reputable reseller and agree with them that they’ll check it or that you can send back if the holes are too tight.
Are the dog holes 3/4-inch?
Nope, definitely not 3/4" 🤷♂️
OK, I own the MFT, decided to add the Benchdogs version when it launches so I won't be buying this one. Just not in the market. BUT. For the person that does not mind (and probably expects to for budget items) fuss or "improve" something while saving a buck this might be just the ticket. There are some things I like: e.g. the straight legs.If I could I'd merge the design the MFT and Benchdog bench (with maybe a feature or two from Dashboard) - and charge for it - rather than go cheap. Now if Metabo comes out with V2 or bis, and addresses the QC problems they would have something.
i wonder if the UJK Parf System Reamer would sort the holes on this?
I refer to it and the Benchdogs reamer specifically in the video! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop damn, must have missed that, sorry!
@@10MinuteWorkshop I would recommend the UJK one though. At least I do not see the point in having a seperate reamer and champfer when UJK offers both in one tool?
I've got two of these, for 199€ each. Yeah the holes were not exact. But Ive got the reamer chamfer and bit from UJK. Now they are perfect. The plastic corner pieces are really annoying and stupid. Also you cannot clamp on the t track in 90 degrees to the top. That was a real bummer for me
It's a great bench, just needs a little more attention. 👍
could you do a little video on that reamer. i would like to see how it works out for accuracy of the holes alignment and how the edge holds up reaming that many holes
I’ll be covering that, yes. 👍
just a guess but wondering if Metabo did 2 production runs on the tops & there was a mix up ? - and some of you Euro guys got tops that were meant for the North American market ? comments indicate some of the holes fit 20mm dogs fine - and others not. Imperial measurement system here is by far more prominent - so it would make sense that they'd market a 3/4 in hole system here?
It’s a nice idea, but there’s been no US availability announced as yet, and the Metabo website states the holes are 20/96mm standard so all things considered I think it’s just a QC issue. 🤷♂️👍
Are they 3/4 bench dogs
Nope.
Does anyone in the comments happen to know if the Excel plunge saw works with the new style Evolution rail? I've read that it's the same saw as the Parkside so I suppose it should...
Excel, Parkside, Lumberjack etc.. are all the Einhell pattern saw, and they work well on the new G2 Evo rails. I did a video on the evolution saw and rails a couple of weeks ago, and I refer to this specifically. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Many thanks!
isn't the idea of the "angular holes" not just taken from the Vario-Bench and then badly but cheaply copied in China? Great job Metabo!
Well, at least the Metabo holes are on 96mm centres… 👍
I wonder if the bench is shipped from china, and the MDF doesn't really like the sea travel, which leads to the holes swelling and the dogs no longer fitting.
Nope. My workshop is like a kiln, and the first one was in there for weeks. The 10MW Plus members have a couple of dozen of these between them and in several countries and they all have the problem. Dog holes also taper from the top to the bottom, very strange.
What a shame to simply not use standard hole sizing, because it's a decent bench for the price otherwise. :(
Pretty sure it's a cock-up rather than a conspiracy - hope to find out more soon.👍
FYI, Not available in the states for all your USA subscribers.
Not yet, anyway… 👍
Really really shot themselves in the foot with the hole sizes.
Seems a mis-step for sure. 🤷♂️👍
I'm guessing that Metabo have aimed this bench at the US market and their 3/4 (19mm) holes.
Nope, definitely not 3/4"; the manual says 20mm holes on 96mm centres.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Well, I have checked the spec sheet and you're correct, how do you mess something up like that?
Eaven the us market is now adopting the festool system as all accessories companies are going metric