I Built a Motorbike That Actually Drives Better Than Expected...
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- In this episode we use the motorcycle suspension pieces to build a functional motorbike in Screw Drivers!
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About Screw Drivers!
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#screwdrivers #kangaming
the biggest problem with motorbikes in games like this is the fact that there's no-one sitting on the bike to shift the center of mass when turining
i guess you could put a weight and shift it from left to right with moving parts
Nah the problem is the bike doesn't turn towards the tilt like a real bike does. Weight shift does not steer a bike as much as counter steering at speed. The motoGP weight shift thing is just squeezing the absolute extreme edge of performance.
Nope ur wrong in irl if ur motorbike starts accelerating it goes straight itself
Gears, pins, gear selectors and axles have no collisions with the terrain. Engines and all other blocks do.
Yup, engines got em recently but the rest can be hung below terrain for extra balance, albeit very cheesy but I can't say i don't indulge in cheese haha ;) - WhiteDwarf
Simple solution is literally down force
Only work at high speeds
@@the_cursekid8711 Downforce only works so much because of how thin the wheels are, you would need an absurd amount of it to actually get any real stability, plus like you said it only works at high speeds, and doesnt solve the whole weight imbalance causing huge leans while turning.
@@gregorytu8357 ok you just basically argued over nothing I did say something true and you quote on agreeing with me so why so aggressive?
Some tips that came for my mind while watching:
1. Put a small electric engine on the weights
2. Front wheel width greater than back
3. Back n front steering
4. Could use the first piston to push a weight in some side when turning up, like when turning right you get the weight on right upper
5. More down force
6. Suspension on both sides (like 2 suspensions 1 wheel or 2 wheels 2 suspensions)
cant stack suspension. wheel axles are different from the other axles on the builder. even tho they look identical
disappointed tbh but fair
also unless they changed it double steering will make you drift and lose grip
New races got added in an update a couple days ago. The same update broke the wheels rotation animation in the editor 😅
So for stabilization, before this update one could dangle an engine below the ground because they had no collision. Sadly, they got collision in the last update. Fortunately it is still possible to auto-stabilize! The game only calculates center off mass once. If a vehicle loses parts it's mass will change, but the COM stays the same. Now I think you'll get where I'm going, what if you dangle a weight below the motor and break it off? You get a COM below ur contact with the ground 😊
For reference, you used to be able to dangle engines on axels because neither would collide with the floor. But like I said, sadly engines now have collisions.
Already made a motorcycle using the spinning weight 'bug'? to turn into turns but I didnt even know about THIS!
You can still do the same with axles and gears, although of course its not quite as efficient as with engines.
8:50 As you're likely already made aware, the gears never catch the terrain, as they pass through it. It's the engines that catch the terrain from time to time.
I was just reminded about a mechanism where regardless of which way you drive the input axle, the output axle will always spin the same direction. Hopefully the existance of such a mechanism makes you more comfortable with the way the gearing polarity doesnt matter in this game.
For further details, you can look up two-way to one-way rotation mechanism.
I watched some one else try and make a motorcycle a while ago and one thing that was odd but really helped was a weight up from the middle of the bike on a pole. It some how balances out the bike and helps it want to stay upright.
@@DianaTheLance Thank you. I couldn't remember how it worked exactly.
@@DianaTheLance Average kAN viewer (extremely intelligent)
If you think of a real bike, you turn the opposite direction slightly before you turn the way you want to go. It's very realistic that you fall over to the side that is opposite to your turn. I think if you want to turn right tap left, then hold right.
It is a difficult skill to master since each degree of turning would require a different amount of inital opposite direction turning.
I wonder, with perfect skill, how good bikes actually get
@snugg1escat676 Yeah, that is true it would be hard to learn, but it would be very cool if he were to learn to do that.
@@Qjimmy1 Or you can just lean into the turn like you mostly do IRL
@Qjimmy1 it would be sick. The game seems to try its best to right the vehicles, so surely it's possible to get close enough
I don't think the physics engine calculates the change in effective tire diameter so it will not handle counter steer
Kan I love your videos and you’re really good at explaining. You should make a video explaining how to start understanding gears and gear shifters, so some of us uneducated could jump into screwdrivers and make fun vehicles
To my knowledge he has, I think also with Hyce
That would be a really interesting video to watch, I agree! And the good news is, Screw Drivers is free and actually has a really decent learning curve! It's fun to learn by just messing around with the builder, I suggest giving it a go!
@@JohnJohnson-dc9yv Seconded! The game limits what parts you have access to in such a way that you can spend a bit of time figuring out how to use each thing before the next one comes along. For a free game it is really good
stepper motor got same function as controller to angle stuff
But only one direction
Love seeing your building process!
I actually just built a batmobile inspired motorcycle. Glad im just now finding help lol :(
i bet building a trophy truck style chassis with these suspensions would be really cool
Watched it 12 mins after it was published, definitely worth my time, can't wait for many more videos
So, point of interest, when moving at speed motorcycle wheels don't steer. They change direction by titling the bike and using gyroscopic precession. The front wheel never gets out of line with the bike itself.
On a bike in real life, when turning right, you have to first turn a little left and swoop back in.
But that swoop amount would depend on how harshly you're turning.
Games dont know your intent they just follow your commands and can not predict what our brains automatically calculate.
I guess if you're a really skilled driver in the game, you could teach yourself to swerve out subtily. But that would be incredibly difficult and precise on a controller
It just needs proper physics and to simulate the countersteer like you see in dedicated motorcycle racing games, the counter steer is automatic so you press left on your controller and the bars dip right before falling to the left. Check out monster energy supercross, or mxgp games, im pretty sure its also present in the motogp games but i havent played those so i cant say for sure. Its not perfect and it isnt 1:1 with reality but its a lot better than what screwdrivers shows.
Manually controlled gyro using stepper motor maybe.
Hey, kan!
U can use downforce wings on servos to change the angles of wings accordingly to keep the bike upright (for e.g. if u turn right, the right side wings tilt to generate more downforce and that reduces on the left side)
in Screwdrivers your suspension is only not glitching while it is bottomed out...
the motorcycle steering is the best for dealing with that btw
If you could use the pistons to move weight left or right, and make the bike lean into the turn beforehand.
Basic stabilization; tilt your spoilers. The game does take their angle into account, so if you make them anhedral (edges lower than center) they will naturally counter your tilt by providing more downforce on the side that tilts up.
for those wondering, the a/b/c/d/e/s/s+ classes can be checked on the build mode. when you go to analyze the vehicle, on top you can click details and it opens a mapping that shows what rank thing your vehicle gets.
One very important thing you're forgetting about motorcycles is that _the driver is an extremely important component._
You're supposed to use each suspension side on one wheel like an actual motorcycle
Only 1 suspension can connect to a wheel.
Single sided swing arms have been a thing on real motorcycles for over 40 years. That is not the issue at all. Its the lack of proper physics.
There are those fins versus the down force spoilers you could use. I think if you angle them with an always on stepper motor at maybe 30 decrees upward on either side, could help. They could work like the angled wings on some gliders that naturally keep them level. Though, you might need to use upside down spoilers instead of the fins, they rely on the change in lift as the aircraft tilts and upside down spoilers seem to give lift. So maybe give those ideas a try...
A simple vertical gyroscope should be all you need. If you can stay perfectly level via a strong enough gyro, the steering will just turn you without the bike leaning. No need for sensors or anything, that's just overcomplicating it.
Motorcycles IRL use the curved shape of the wheel to rotate the bike when in motion. Countersteering (steering opposite of the direction of the turn) is used to lean the bike over. If the game has wheels that are of conical shape (simulates the curved wheel aswell). A proper motorcycle is possible.
I love the way kAN's bike just went:
Haha freak you have some: **
Also kAN, I don't know if you have did it before or not because my brain is dumb at remembering schtuff, but can you try to make a V-engine or a radial engine with pistons in scrap mechanic?
literally the best way of doing this it by building the wheels to face each other
it'll technaly be 4 wheels instead of just 2
but it'll still have the look and feel of a motorbike
The fin aerodynamic piece might help keep strait, you can also put it on a stepper motor to angle the fin when you turn.
Wow, kAN, you did the even longer jump, off the wooden part. I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever done that. I've always just used the better angled jump to the side of the wooden part.
Question, don't know if you tried this, but are the 2 identically looking suspension pieces mirrored to help with the assymetry? Although that'd of course still leave the balancing issue
I came to the comments looking for someone saying this
why is there no scrap mechanic piston engines?
no sensors
because this is screwdrivers not scrap mechanic lol
Acts tho
Not possible due to how the game works rn
I mean why is there no videos about scarap mechanic about piston engines
Smaller wheels so that it doesn't have to tilt on giant wheels
to tilt it down kinda like a acual motorcycle if screwdriver works like
Maybe to balance, you could do a weight on two pistons and when you turn left, the left piston extends the weight out and vice-versa
Idea for you. Use the pistons shifting a weight around to act like a "rider" would when leaning into a corner.
I'm like screaming at the screen "Kan, how many motorcycles do you know of where the steering wheel is also a drive wheel? Make the back wheel the only one getting power!"
I mean they do exist, and plus why not.
I could imagine a hybrid offload bike with the front axle being e motor driven.
There is exactly ONE model of 2 wheel drive motorcycle, the rokon 2x2. Its slow, and youre really only using the front wheel drive to help pull you through shitty terrain or up hills.
@@BeefIngotits a bad concept, you dont want power going to the front because that only reduces the front tires grip and that is the LAST thing you want when riding a motorcycle, on or off road.
I know of 3 atleast
I don't doubt they exist, my point is more along the lines of "when designing your first motorcycle, don't overcomplicate it by making it 2 wheel drive also"
you can use a straight hinge with a motor and a weight and make it spin the opposite direction you are steering to act as a gyro vertically like a hat on your motorbike (note: you can map motors to a and d in build mode)( Note 2: use specifically the electric motors for this)
I feel like the motorcycle suspension could be used to make a really awesome batmobile.
Stuff that counts towards completion percentage:
All the challenges, including the ones on the other map
Unlocks like blocks, paints, and also checkpoints, on both maps
Planetary gears out back suspension? Just spitballing, but I don't think you expressly need to power the front axle. So, running power from some engines through a planetary gear into the back might give you a rear wheel drive bike with a slimmer profile.
The motorbike sus is good for making cars that take turns well. Made a 8 wheeler (2 front 2 back) and it is extremely stable and fast
you could use the pistons for adjustable downforce, like airbrakes and so on
Also because the weight was balanced at center doesn’t mean it was centers for a motor bike. Because the axels were on opposite sides of the center it wants to tilt towards the unstable corners causing the rocking
Its just a matter of time until somebody builds a piston engine in Screw Drivers
You could build a gyro on a servo, and set the server controls to match your steering. Only issue is that I don't remember if you can set a reverse comtrol to the servo
You can select a part while holding a different part to swap between parts on your vehicle a lot faster.
You could use the Pistons to shovel weights into the corner that you're trying to turn
a weight that shifts the balance as you turn. This is all you need.
i got an idea, use pistons to move downforce pieces to stabilize!
there is a verticle stabiliser you could possibly use as a tail fin
I'll be honest. Motorcycle physics are ridiculously hard to model and put in games cause when you are at speed the steering is reversed lol
There's a part that rotates depending on which input is used, so say you put a stick going upward on that, set it to something like 25 degrees and slapped on some weight to that stick, you could use that weight to tilt the bike inwards as a substitute for the rider as you turn. No idea how well this'd actually work, but can't hurt to try right?
I can't imagine how an engineer like you can't even think about using the areo pieces uside down to go further on the long jump
You cant imagine? Engineers are FAMOUS for rigid thinking.
Try having only rwd on the motorbike and keep the cg low but leave toom for tilting and suspension travel
Cg on bikes is high because of the rider, so a low cg isnt really going to help the issue. Fortnine on youtube breaksdown motorcycles and their counterintuitive riding physics/characteristics better than anyone else, if youre intetested.
you could try adding body roll to the steering with hinge connecters
Bodyroll on a bike translates to highsiding and crashing. Lateral forces compress because of the lean angle in the turn, instead of rolling the forces out of the turn. Bikes dont have bodyroll.
Other people provided great suggestions, but possibly adding extra mass to the center could also help. (has not finished watching the video)
Use a servo to transfer weight back and forth to the inside of the turn.
One of your problems kan (in terms of irl motorbikes) is that it can't lean enough. Try building your gearbox upward instead of sideways.
Another possible problem (?) Is that you are useing 2 sets of rear suspention... i dont know if that would be an issue in the game but maby if you angle the front suspention downwards towards the center of mass by using a stepper motor, so the steering wheel has more weight on it for the purposes of turning That would also give you more clearance if you didnt change the gearbox.
Also, without the weight of the driver, the bike will only ever want to straighten out, like in the videos of bikes rolling down hills.
In real life the gyroscope created by the wheels turning naturally straightens the wheels.
All to say I dont know how to fix your weight issue without a "driver"
I hope you can see what i mean and hope they help, as my chromebook cant run screwdrivers to test it...😅
Basicly, try making the front wheel closer to the center of mass (like a chopper) that's my main suggestion.👍
Love this, when is it going to be irl?Dirt rc cars and bike would be cool. I love the drift cars as well
There's also some starting points that are on top of buildings in the supersonic map
The carbon fiber wide wing mix for good propellers and wings lift
You could try to use stepper motors on the down force to sort of act like DRS in F1 to lean the bike back and forth... And as I'm typing this you said this exact idea
Raise the center of gravity slightly then try to power the axle to some weights, theoretically it would create a flywheel and give u gyro stabilization
Kan go light weight, 6 big engines and 4 gears. Build like a boxy car, with an offset gear and engine vertically if you have to.
u can use a powered axle to spin a weight to create a gyroscopic effect i tested it and it is encorporated
Vertical spoilers to create a tail fin, like a normal bike it won't stabilize until it gets some speed
Idea
If they have servos use an forward off centered weight so that when turning, the weight leans into the turn
What if you did a gravity powered gear based gyro so if it leans one way the gear comes in contact and start spinning the gyro. Same but reversed on the oposite side.
Downforce is extremely important as well as low center of gravity.
I think what you made here is a two wheeled land canoe.
Should look into how rake /angle of the front tire to see how the game handles counter steer
hope the add proper forks and stuff so you get the classic motorcycle stability, and proper conical tires so you can actually turn
I think weights are basically always the bad option in this game because aero exists and is low weight, high effectiveness.
I mean there's a reason that outside of driver weight matching real race cars don't have any weights.
i think a youtuber made a real life motorbike that looks like this and actually works
Can you mount a weight to the wheels? You could put the downforce on a servo to help you lean into the turns.
Motorcycle or not, that's just a cool design!
use two lefts and two rights and combine them together with wide wheels and make all wheels steerable
if you have downforce just turn your car upside down when jumping. i think for controllers the air control is RS
Love the videos… you should try to make an f1 car or a stock car and see if you can beat the records
you could put a weight that swings into the turns
well i havent seen motorbike with forward drive but when im done downloading im gonna try to build one. i think from desig that you should place wheel sus blocks from both sides so it will look like back suspension attachment look a like and front i would try just use for steering.... similar ones ive built in space engineers
Wheels need to be in the centre for balance lol good build tho
I believe your gearing is in reverse from what it should be, you should have the large gear right off the motor then get smaller as you go through the gears
Maybe weight on a piston countering the steering lean?
Wonder if you can use pistons or stepper motors to shift weight when you turn, acting as the rider would.
Edit: 21:47.
Take a shot every time he says "It's not bad"! lol
because of the previous video i decided to check and the game was free and gave a try ... now im making an 8x8 and reinforcing it ... goddamn it i love these sandbox style games
Counter weights on free bearing so when u turn the weight leans with you
I dont know the physic for the game so yea
Maybe try using Air control with the right stick to balance?
Use weigth in the bottom like 80% of your weitgh below your center
And the engine goes to the gearing to go to the backwheel
Real motorcycles turn mainly with leaning, steering only to align the wheels with the curvature. If you could build a gyro and place it on a hinge controlled by steering input, it should work at least somewhat.
try mapping a motor to A and D with a weight attached to make you lean into the corner
I hope they add sensors and logic
if you put extreme downforce on the tires or above then it will control it self
yoooo Genuinely sick tho. I tried and never succeeded.
Could you somehow use pistons and spoilers to help you lean into turns?
Nope, you need real motorcycle tires that arent flat in order to get proper lean angles.
I notice how wide your mass is. Try to stack it more vertically to see if you can have stability cause your mass is stacked right on the centre line. Making some vertical stabilisers, like you are plane, isn’t horrible either.
id suggest using hinges for steering...
bigger dirt tire that's what they are for bikes perfect balance