I couldn't care less what this guy says, and thats not because I love biscuit joiners. Anyone who holds a shallow piece of wood opposite a spinning joiner saw blade instead of using a clamp is a hack in my opinion, and as well the glue in the test should have been given 24hrs to cure 2 hrs is a total waste of time, also using two boards for a butt joint with clearly different grain patterns is ridiculous. This test could have been incredibly helpful if done correctly instead it is more of a testament to this mans wood working ineptitude.
why are you crying? Not everyone is a professional woodworker, we just want to have fun, it isn't our job, it's our hobby. And for someone who accasionaly builds stuff on the weekend, a biscuit joiner is the last tool I bought. They really don't add strengh. They are useful for specific stuff, and a weekend woodworker doesn't need that. Or maybe he just love to build melamine cabinet, then I get it.
@@Lazarus-aap If anyone spends 1,000 dollars on a biscuit jointer that's dumb, at that point just put a little bit more money up and get the Festool Domino which will essentially do everything a biscuit jointer will times 100 with way more accuracy and strength lol.
@@dedalliance1 Don't worry, I will not buy it! Like, at all! I don't need it! And if I ever do want to spend money on a similar tool, I will most definitely take your advice to account!! Thanks 😉
@@dedalliance1 in theory, yes... But you'd be surprised at what justifies a tool purchase as a pro woodworker. I personally own and use a Domino for my business. It's an amazing tool. But the Lomello is on my buy list because it comes with a completely different blade than other brands. It has a locking mechanism in the biscuit joint, and also the biscuits and Lomello accessories are cheaper than the Domino stuff. The Lomello can have concealed plastic clamps inside of the joint. Yes, you are correct that strength wise a Domino is superior. But sometimes it's not about overkilling strength as much as it is about cost effectiveness and utility.
Dude, my wife banned me from buying new tools until I made something. So, I made Steve's BMW - Basic Mobile Workbench. And my wife and I both are so proud of me.
I applaud you for being open minded and willing to take on advice, it reminded me of why I first subscribed to you, looking forward to more great videos
Lol open minded? He just admitted to deleting comments on people disagreeing with him. And said anyone disagreeing with him couldn’t possibly be a subscriber or here for actual information. Essentially the people disagreeing with him are people that are just surfing RUclips and happened to find this video. Yeah sounds like a real open minded individual.
@@davelowesky8054 nope, he said he deleted those that were personal attacks against him, and other regular channel viewers raised rational counterpoints in their own comments, which Steve took to heart and thus led to this video. You'd know if you actually listened lmao
@@xw6968 One things I’ve learned over 5 decades is that it’s good to have strong ideas of your own, and to base those ideas on the best available facts. Why go through life uninformed or wishywashy? For this method to work, it’s essential to be open to new information, and be willing to change your ideas if needed. I like my biscuit joiner, and use it enough to be glad I bought it. But I still watched both these videos and read quite a few of the comments to get different viewpoints and information. I also disagree with Mr Ramsey about the use of dowels, but that doesn’t make either of us wrong!
I was thinking of commenting on your first video, I figured others would say what I was thinking. I use biscuits daily in my custom shop. It's not about the strength at all. When you glue up panels it's just nice to have everything you can in your favor. Yeah calls are great, but it's hard to put calls in the middle of a table top. When you are gluing up 10-15 boards to a table top putting a biscuit every 12 or so inches you limit the amount of clamps you have to use to get a glue up that wont require hand plane work later or excess passes through a wide belt. You're right it's not a necessity style tool but it is something that will become invaluable if your woodworking progresses past the occasional glue up. One last tip, the only time I would use a biscuit for a cabinet door glue up would be if the center panel was plywood or mdf. It will align your joints well and the small amount of additional glue surface mixed with the glue surface around the center panel it makes a solid joint. If the panel were floating you really should do either a M&T or use something like a domino. After watching your videos for the past 6-7 years I am happy that you are still making videos for your subscription base as apposed to making videos for sponsors. The whole sponsorship thing that took hold about 4 years ago has really turned a lot of decent channels into nothing more than low rate infomercials.
I love that you can have an open mind and great credit for giving it another go. Love your channel I have gained a lot of knowledge from you videos. Thank you
I always love your videos and advice. Low cost project based teaching is your meat and potatoes and I really appreciate it. This video on biscuits was just gravy.
It never ceases to amaze me how the "web" audience of anything has so many people who get so worked up about twiddly little stuff! Anyone, like yourself, who puts themselves out out there in the public eye, like these channels, has my sympathy. That said, I'm glad you don't publish the real nasty crap only bc it's such a waste of time to weed through when simply trying to enjoy the content that you've put time and energy into. Kudos for having an open mind about the machine too!
Steve...I like the way you stay grounded...stay with the beginners because remember...there are always new people young and old that want to make things from wood but have no idea how to even begin. Your ways easily connect and capture attention of those who don't know terms and phrases associated with woodworking. keep up the good work and you will always have followers. I will always be one!
It takes confidence to address this after the fact and admit a changed position - we need more of this with political, religious beliefs and a whole host of other topics too - it's okay to change your minds people!
Thanks rando! Now tell me what your politics and religion are so I can adopt them for my life, because what I want the most is for you to say I demonstrated confidence and that I'm ok.
@Videogalore: Yes! Absolutely! Never thought I would read such a meaningful opinion on a RUclips about biscuit joiners! Actually, a very good example how one can come to new insights when one is open to facts. Open to other people's opinions and experiences. Listen. Think critically. Do research. Confirm facts. It might just make one a better informed, less arrogant, humble person. Thanks friend!
Yes, exactly! It is a strong mind, and a person confident in themselves, who is willing to admit to being wrong, and learning something, when presented with better evidence, more convincing evidence, supporting a different viewpoint, or conclusion. This is a sign of strength not of weakness. It is also a sign of strength and confidence in oneself to say, "I don't know,," when you actually don't know something. It is the weak-minded, the insecure, those not confident in themselves, who choose to fake knowing something, who try to act confident, and speak only in vague terms, or they try to lay down layers of doubletalk, cliches, often overly blusterous exaggerations that are strongly positive or strongly negative, they use arguments like, "slippery slope," or, "what's next," and they'll often quickly shift to attacking anyone who disagrees, often using unrelated attacks or familiar refrains, desperately trying to fool the people around them, or anyone listaing. This is also a clear and undeniable sign of dishonesty in a person . I have never been afraid to say to anyone, any of my bosses, any of my subordinates, that I don't know something, but I have always followed the admission of not knowing something, with the immediate assurance that I take responsibility and I will find out. If only our politicians we're capable of this behavior. But the corporations and big money interests that make massive bribes, I mean contributions to their campaign (bribes), would never allow it, so our politicians keep saying what they're saying, out of ignorance, or stupidity, or just being wrong, or because they're just repeating what they were told to say. And we almost never hear politicians say they don't know something, but we will hear almost constantly, politicians saying things that are completely untrue, usually loaded with b*******, as they are trying to cover up the fact that they don't know anyting about the topic or the issue about which they have just been asked. Some of them actually believe that they are fooling people, or they're getting away with something, but many of them don't operate with that delusion, they just don't care because they're going to be enriching their bank accounts and that's all that matters to them.
I have been watching your videos for a couple of years now. I really like your content. Thank you for having the guts to post a video where you show that you have a flexible mind. I understand how you came to the conclusion about biscuit joiner. I have struggled with this topic myself. I am really happy to see that when you discover new information, you will publicly state that there is more to it than you thought. It is honestly like you showed that will keep me coming back to hear and see what you have to offer. Kudos.
You definitely got me started woodworking. I still watch your basic box video every couple months. I retired in December 2021 from Urology and needed something to do. I found that terrorizing friends and relatives with cutting boards was a lot of fun. Your 1,000k workshop is now in my rear view mirror but definitely remembered and appreciated. I recently purchased my first “green brand” domino jointer to put a large walnut waterfall table together. I’ve used it for large table slabs and seem to keep using it. I’m probably lazy but the thing sure makes a lot of things easier and way more precise than I ever was before. It doesn’t fit beginning wood working but it sure is fun ! Keep the videos coming and thanks for getting me started.
I really appreciate you re-addressing this topic. Not that I wanted you to say what I THOUGHT, but that you saw the previous comments and decided to reassess. Thanks for all your vids!
Thank you for giving the biscuit joiner another shot. I have been a shop teacher for 24 years. 7 years ago I introduced my students to biscuit joints. We don't use it for everything, but for making large panels and miter joints it does a great job. I did use it To glue up plywood legs at right angles for an augmented reality sandbox.
Next to my pocket hole jig, my yellow biscuit jointer is used very much. I will never understand people who just have something negative to say about free content. I learned to do woodworking from watching PBS on Sunday nights with Norm Abram. He used a biscuit jointer a lot, and that is why I bought one, I've had it since 1995. Thanks for your hard work in producing great content Steve. Ravens v SanFran in the Superbowl. Merry Christmas to you and the family.
I inherited a biscuit joiner from my late father. I used it once on a project making an island where I had to glue up long boards of walnut. It helped align things for sure.
Hello Steve. That biscuit you used in the first shot was probably a bit to tight. Biscuits will absorb moisture from the air which is why I keep mine in a fairly airtight container. You want a little play left or right and you don’t want to scrape off the glue as it goes in. Also just as an FYI for any new users of biscuit joiners if you use biscuits to line up boards for a table top make sure you give the top a day or so to dry. The biscuits will swell when the absorb the moisture in the glue and create little humps where the biscuits are (this does not always happen). If you sand the boards to soon and those humps are there you will have little dips where each biscuit is. But if you let it dry for a day or so then sand the moisture from the glue will have been absorbed and equalized and you should not have any issues. Also Steve.... the (Red) tool for $1600.00 is not technically a biscuit joiner although you can replace the blade it comes with a smaller blade and use it as a biscuit joiner. They picture you showed uses specialized fittings for joining panels, shelves and so much more. The (red) tool company does make a biscuit joiner and is the brand that Norm Abram used in the New Yankee workshop. I believe the (red) tool company was the inventor of the biscuit joiner as well but if I am wrong about that I’m sure someone will correct me.
I appreciated your video last week. I'm on a budget and I never see any of the guys I follow RUclips use one. So... thank you for helping me make up my mind and saving me some money. 😊
Wow your manuals look really detailed. I've never expected it to look so graphical. You must have put a lot of time in them. Even the cutting list and how to cut with the least loss 🙏
Love how you listened to the comments and took the time to refine it (even if that meant trudging through vitriol I don't even want to imagine). Very open minded but still stuck to your guns and explained that it was not a useless as you thought BUT still had very little use in the "mere mortals" world, Which is what your loyal viewers want to hear about.
I will give my 2 cents also here. Yes B joiner is a specialize power tool and from what i see here they should not fit so tight (finger press), probably your biscuits got some moisture and have swollen up. But biscuits are very useful also when joining melamine particle boards, the biscuits when wet with glue, will swollen up and give a tight hold up.
Nope, I disagree, when used in particle board they swell up and either split the board or cause humps on the finished surface, same when used in MDF boards
@@colstace2560 well those humps are called telegraphing and it can happen even more in solid wood. But it can be avoided if you cut the slots in the center of your wood or cut them near the bottom rather than near the top. Any floating tenon like system or dowels (even screws) will slightly split the particle board horizontally near the slot/hole, if its of low quality board, and after many years, Particle board furniture don't last forever, you can easily see this effect when you dismantle old furniture. IMO it's not the biscuit that makes this problem but the slot cut due to moisture, because the particle board has allot air space to give in when the biscuit dries out after gluing. Also you can see in old furniture that when trying to remove the biscuit it comes off with a big piece of particle board holding tight on the center top and bottom of it. That's just my opinion of-course ... Merry Christmas my friend :)
I'm really impressed that you were listened to the comments and gave something another try! As someone who is just getting into woodworking your videos are a big help and I appreciate them. Thank you for making them!
I didn't see the comments on your other video but I've LOVED watching you over the past year since discovering you channel Dec 2018. So informative, helpful, and FUN! I didn't know a thing about woodworking 18 months ago. Today, I make (and sell!) an average of two custom projects a month. You and your channel are awesome! Thanks for the continual updates!
I was literally just watching another video of another woodworker who was saying that he loves his biscuit joiner and thought of you..... And then got this video notification during watching that. Never wrong to reconsider things 🙂
Thank you Steve, I am a Veterinarian but I like a lot woodworking, I have been learning a lot just looking at your videos. Keep on sharing your knowledge with us, mere mortals. I apologize for my orthografic mistakes.
this is one quick handy tool that you can use for a lot of things....i say that bcause i can remember of have been using it in a shop where i learnd carpenter....very mighty tool...
I have watched numerous videos on using biscuit joiners and none of them use the method that was taught to me. I worked with an extremely experienced cabinet maker that taught me to glue everything up thoroughly then dip the biscuits in water before inserting them into the slots and clamping the pieces together. The water causes the biscuit to swell as the glue dries making for an incredibly strong joint. I have used the water method for 20 years with no failures.
Also .. I was taught that you should put woodwork glue in the slot .. not just to add glue . but it expands the biscuit making the join stronger . .. I mostly use biscuits when I join 38 mm kitchen bench tops .. I couldn't get a smooth join with out them !!!
That is wrong, I bought one on eBay for $50. a Dewalt just like that one barely used. I would not pay 150 for one and it does help a lot getting planks aligned.
I now agree 100% with your revised opinion and give you props for listening to your viewers. Now everyone learned something, a credit to your core beliefs!
Hi Steve. Do not forget to “dry” your biscuits as they expand with humidity. Once dry they should be kept in an airtight box. The biscuits would probably then not be quite as tight
Love the fact that you are humble enough to admit that you may be wrong. I don't own one as I don't think I really need one. Your channel is great, ignore the haters. One of your weekend woodworkers, JB. 👍🏼
On the joiner you used there is a drop down piece that allows you to set the depth of the biscuit cut from the top face. If you use boards of different thickness it allows you to align the top of the board so you get a flat surface.
I am glad that you are prepared to re-assess your opinion. I used to be a cabinet maker in a London based workshop and have used as an employee a number of makes of biscuit jointer including an earlier iteration of the DeWalt that you demonstrated. We did have Lamello biscuit jointers and the build quality is superb but they seem to have rather rested on their laurels. The work for which biscuit jointers are most suited is assembling sheet material carcases or cabinets. In the company for whim I used to work almost everything was assembled with biscuits. One could be pretty sure of a good alignment of level and a reasonable level of strength. Biscuits are intended to be assembled with pva as the biscuits are compressed and swell in the joint due to the bloating caused by the water content of the pva giving greater mechanical strength than otherwise. The disadvantage of this is that the biscuits need to be kept well away from the surface of the joint to avoid bulges in the surface of the sheet material. Using a hammer to drive biscuits in can cause trouble as the bruising on the edge of the biscuit can hinder assembly. When using pva assembly does need to be quite swift as the swelling of the biscuits causes them to grab. Sash clamps are a good idea. Edge joining with biscuits is stronger than a rubbed joint just as a tongue and groove is as one is adding a mechanical joint. Biscuits are very poor when used as a substitute for traditional timber joints such as mortice and tenons. That is not really what they were devised for. If one does intend to assemble many carcases a biscuit jointer is a good idea and is much faster in production that dowels which are a non starter for speed and the jigs are on the whole really slow and over a long joint attaining alignment is very difficult. Most biscuit jointers have very similar fences and it has been very frustrating over the years when one has to join carcases at an angle such as under eaves. The only biscuit jointer which truly addresses this matter is the Porter Cable though there is a cheap copy branded SIP in the U.K. which is largely the same with one or two detail differences that do not affect operation in the short term. What these two offer is the ability to hook over the acute angle of the bevelled end allowing a much more positive location than other jointers which can only hook over the obtuse angle of the bevel giving a rather uncertain location. One other use that I recently had for a biscuit jointer was in producing ladder frame grounds for skirting boards. In many Victorian houses plaster is exceedingly thick and if the old skirting boards are damaged or missing then the grounds usually coma away with the boards. A good straight square set of grounds is much easier to fix to than wavy plaster or bits of timber already full of nails or screws. Why not have a bash at assembling a carcase with the good jointer that you now have and see how you get on?
I just started working with a cousin and he makes custom made kitchens and closets and he uses a biscuit joiner a lot! and quite faster, he's been in this job for about 25 years.
my point exactly. Using the biscuit jointer, you need less clamps and you have less rush during the glue up because the biscuits keep everything in place. It has become one of the tools I use very often.
Hello Steve, glad to see you’re taking a second look at biscuit joinery. Not making the comment that you’re using a metal hammer I do also to insert my biscuits. It looks like you’re pushing the biscuit in to far or you have not adjusted the tool quite right... Where if you put a centerline on your biscuit then tap it in to the centerline/mark so that way You can monitor the installation process... Then the biscuit would be centered more equally in the two slots. Which would make for a stronger joint especially on a number 20 biscuit. Good come back video ... Greg
These two videos are awesome. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond to the community, showing humility, and, ha, coming to the same conclusion.
You're the freakin best man. I've never looked forward more to giving somebody I've never met $97 for something I know nothing about. BUT! I have half of a two car garage that I need to make work!
I'm new to woodworking and shocked by all the comments for this tool. If i could do 1/8th of the projects you do, and still manage to have my work come out as beautiful as yours I would be ecstatic. Thanks for helping the new guy learn how to make a simple project better.
I bought one used when I was starting out (BUY ALL THE TOOLS!). Even though I agree with your assessment, I have to say, I really love using it. I have no idea why, it's just particularly satisfying. But then I also love drilling perfect holes with my drill press and Forstner bits, so go figure. :-)
Glad you're open-minded, Steve! The biscuit joiner has its purpose...one of those tools that collects a lot of dust until you REALLY need it. TIP: I noticed you store your biscuits in a cardboard box. Biscuits are VERY susceptible to high moisture environments - - they will swell. Store them in an airtight container with some small desiccant pouches. They will stay nice and 'thin', won't swell, and will last for years. Thank you for the video!
You're presumably allowed you're own opinion without getting lambasted by a bunch of bored keyboard warriors? Keep going Mr Ramsey, you're my hero. Most of what I know about woodworking has come from you, thank you for all your splendid efforts.
just wanted to say thank you, im a sales associate at a home depot and your videos honestly help me more for knowledge on tools than the store provided videos
Woah woah woah there. As a Home Depot employee you're not allow to actually know anything useful. Your job is to hang out and chat with other employees in the aisle, read the packaging to the customers and send customers to the other end of the store as you sneak off to the break room.
I went into Lowe's one day As I walked in a guy asked me if I needed any help I asked him where his wood screws were at He looked at me very strangely and he said "all the screws are down aisle 3 but I believe they're all made of metal " I thought he might have been joking with me but the man was completely serious
when you do a large glue up that wont fit in a planer it makes it so you can glue up two or more narrower pieces then plane them and biscuit joint the pieces you ran through the planer together for alignment. Say for a table top that way all you need to do is sand then finish.
I'm glad you posted this. Awhile back I purchased a cheap "detail" biscuit joiner at the pawn shop for about $20. It sat for a bit without use. Then I watched your video about how useless regular sized biscuit joiners are. I felt my small one must be complete garbage. I was about to ebay it starting at a penny just to get it out of my garage. Then the day before I was going to post it on eBay I found myself building a small wooden gift box to use instead of wrapping a friends gift. I decided such a small project didn't need much strength so I gave the little biscuit joiner a try on all of the joints in the entire project. It was pretty useful, but the biscuits were sloppy like your old joiner. However they held enough that I did not need many clamps or a pin nailer. For me even being a beginner I think I will keep this around for the small stuff because it is really easy to use. Also I got mine so cheap that it's not a cost issue. However being a "detail" biscuit joiner it's possible that the smaller biscuits may be hard to find some day in the future. Anyway thanks for another great video, Steve!
Woodworking sanctuary is the most appropriate term I have heard for a shop. I can be creative, productive and have peace of mind in my shop. Thanks for your honest videos.
I use my bisuit joiner for adding hardwood edging to sheet goods. The biscuits make it so that there is perfect alignment between the top of the edging and the top of the sheet. It saves a bunch of sanding and scraping.
I picked a yellow one up sometime ago. Only started using recently when I needed to make some new workshop cabinets and it made squaring up the sides so much easier. Must also say Striplox plastic biscuits take it to another level.
As a profesional electrician all I can say is that no matter what kind of joint you use in a cabinet the all break when the woodworker forgets to cut the hole for the wall plugs
I'm merely a mere mortal & woodworker, I use my biscuit joiner for large panel glue ups. 50% of the time, works every time! Seriously love the channel and the instruction. Peace... PoFoMoCo
Right on man, I recommend your channel to everyone that steps into my shop with any interest in the hobby. Love your open mindedness in redoing a video for this interesting tool! Good to know bisquits should fit tightly.
I am a beginning woodworker (about 2 years). It’s one of the first tool I have bought and it’s one that I use the most. It ensure clean, tight and solid joints. I get great results on miter joint, flat or vertical. Results would have been much different if you had made a complete frame with miter joints and biscuits, and then try to break it.
To Be Honest I didn't even Watch The other Video because as A Woodworking Contractor here in Calif. I use My old porter cable Biscuit Joiner quite Often.. for all sorts of different application mainly to align parts Together . I'm glad to see you've changed your mind a little on biscuit joiners , Good for you, but you are right it's not sometime that a beginning woodworker would really need . One last thing and I'm sure you know this , If you put THE Fence Down flat and not Up like in your Video you'll have a better chance at Keeping your parts More Flush / Flat . Thanks For All You Do .
Like you mentioned in your previous video, i had no idea what a biscuit joiner was. Just like I didn’t know what a pocket screw was 2 years ago.....but thanks to you, now I do. Thank you. ☺️
I have a book from the 80s that describes this way to use it several times in the projects, and as shown on the page they don't look half bad. Fancy even.
Very honnest video! I love the biscuit jointer to make cabinet joinery. Joining plywood hardwood or other materials go effortlessly and dont require high accuracy. They are just so fast!
for butt joints, depending on wood thickness, I use a stack of two or three biscuits, which adds considerable strength. And depending on the glue, I don't consider the joint at full strength for up to 24 hours. That would have made a big difference on the test.
Purchased a Lamello TopTen about 25 yrs ago for some crazy amount of money ... probably inspired by Norm Abrams ... and am using same tool today on a current home project. For me it's an essential tool for both the alignment benefit it offers, a huge benefit IMO, but it goes beyond that. As for the strength biscuits add to a piece ... no scientific tests here but my many casual tests over the years indicate a great deal of added strength is achieved.
Fair play to you Steve for not ignoring comments, to make a video that showed you being genuinely surprised by the effectiveness of "yellow tool company's" biscuit jointer. Kudos to you for listening and trying again a tool you had dismissed.
There are a lot of "A" Type woodworkers..........very high strung! I'm glad you ruffled some feathers! Your original video still stands and makes sense. Yes, the new joiner is better with tighter fits, but so are dowels!! Nasty comments are just crap!! Great comeback video Steve..........keep going!! DD
Thanks for posting the follow up, to me it showed dedication to getting the most practical and useful information out there and available. as an aside, I too own a biscuit joiner and I use biscuits when I need alignment with more give than a dowel pin would allow.
This was a good test. One suggestion, you should try the “Yellow Brand Blade” in your 15 year old biscuit joiner. That might make the slots tighter for your 15 year old machine. 🤔🤔
How power tools and their accuracy has changed over the years, glad you put it to the test. 2 comments on from this, either your biscuits were damp or the wrong size for the slot cut, and using a metal hammer can damage the biscuits so the edges flare out. Full respect for giving it another go.
I used my biscuit jointer to attach stretchers to table legs... I built mine 13 years ago and although people say there is no/limited strength to biscuits, the table is still solid. If I made it now I would do mortise and tenon...but it works!
It's not that there is no strength... it's just the strength they add is less than the strength the glue gives normally... so they dont add any extra strength...
@@spunkmeyer43 No, not in this case. They do add strength how I used them. I joined stretchers (end grain) to the legs (long grain). There would be zero glue strength. The biscuits became loose tenons in my table. So, your comment is not accurate. My point was people say the biscuit itself is weak. I'm saying, while they may be weak on their own, they have held up okay in my small table.
@@JayWC3333 but obviously they would add marginal strength to end grain ad glue is all but ineffective... however no one should be considering biscuits for that use...
@@spunkmeyer43We're going around in circles. In fact you're typing what I had already said above and you seem to be trying to prove you're right where it's not needed. I know the end grain glue thing already. In fact I already typed that there is zero strength for that condition above. You're preaching to the choir. My point is: when I was new in the woodworking hobby I did use biscuits for the table legs. So, I did consider them and they did work despite what everyone says. The biscuits have given more than marginal strength. Do you understand what I'm saying now?
I have a biscuit joiner I got really cheap years ago. I don't use it much. Since getting a pocket jig set-up, I have not used the joiner at all. I appreciate the videos you put out and the time it takes to do them in the professional manner you do. For me, the most efficient use of my time has been with pocket joints. Maybe a demo on PJ vs Biscuits is in order as well. Thanks again.
Old video but yay on being open to change / adjust your opinion. That's really great to see. Biscuit joiners are common here in Germany for joining parts of kitchen counters and that basically has the purpose of keeping everything in place nicely while you tighten it up by putting screws into the counter from below through the cabinet tops. You can easily replace that with a second person keeping an eye on your counter.
I'll throw in my ha'penny's worth.. As a furniture maker I find a biscuit jointer an invaluable tool for cabinet making, assembling carcasses and drawer sides for example. They create a strong bond that will not fail before the surrounding material does. I find them great for dry fitting before final glue up as the biscuits are easily removed, unlike Festool domino's which I find can damage the material when removing after a dry fit. My favourite biscuit jointer is the Elu DS140 jointer/groover. An even more versatile jointer, which operates with a scissor action rather than plunge action. I still have two of these but alas, Dewalt bought out Elu and in their wisdom discontinued the model. Biscuits are avaliable in four sizes. No. 20, No. 10, Zero and FF. With 20 being the largest and FF being the cute tiny ones.
I've watch you for the longest time, and like your show. but on the biscuit joiner don't shove the biscuit all the way in on the first wood ,. When you clamp it together it will be more even on both side. Love your show.
I agree with many of the points you made. I don't like single-use tools because I feel they're wasteful of both money and space. The one time a year I'd need to do that, I'll just use dowels. Thanks for another great video!
I also noticed that you depended solely on the biscuit alone when gluing up, that is, you didn't spread the glue on the face of the wood itself as you did the other. If done in addition to gluing the joints itself as you did the second (w/o bisc.) then I think you would have an even stronger joint.
+1 Though people often don't glue the biscuits when they are used for alignment. This may go back to some theories when they first came out here about glued biscuits telegraphing when boards were edge jointed with them. Since edge joints are 100% anyway, they came up with the idea of not gluing them, plus it makes the glue up easier if it is going to potential kick off on you before you get everything in the clamps. I have never had telegraphing myseld.
Just FYI I have been using a biscuit jointer for years and I love it and use it often. To each his own I guess I would say. I like you site and visit it often. Merry Christmas.
I have been using a biscuit joiner for 20 yrs. I bought a dewalt joiner the. And still use it today. Although I use it on a much more limited basis than I used to it still comes in handy sometimes.
In 30+ years of woodworking, the biscuit cutter has been a great tool, especially for cabinet work...llloooooong before pocket screws, and way easier than dowels.
@@michaelkraft6018 well, it's a great way to join 2 pieces of wood, but it's very ugly and requires zero skill to utilize...which is probably why it's the go to for 90% of all RUclips carpenters. Sorta like resin...everyone thinks that they're creating works of art by slathering some resin on some wood...they're not. Even after 30 years of woodworking I still do not know everything, and would never call myself a master, yet there are several RUclipsr's who refer to themselves as masters, or experts. I don't know, different mindset I guess. But for me, all my cabinetry is done with biscuits, they're just...better.
@@douglasgoldstein8990 Zero skill is precisely why I love them! I really enjoy putting things together, but I am NOT a craftsman and I do not have lots of free time to work on projects. I also have no dedicated space. So when I get started on something, it means a lot of prep in my garage and hope for good weather, work quickly and get it done. The great thing about pocket screws - no clamp up and waiting for the glue to set, and the bond is super strong. Yes, they are ugly, but you work to bury those where they can't be seen.
My biggest gripe with pocket screws, aside from the fact they can be ugly (even with the plugs). It's that 'diyers' use them for every damn thing. They're fine for a number of things, quick and easy so long as it's not showing like cabinet facing or something, maybe dresser carcasses. But I see people like oh I put together this heavy duty lumber rack or I built this entire bed frame using nothing but pocket screws. (facepalm). Hot glue is fantastic too, for attaching felt to something. Not for hanging a 55" tv on the wall. It has its limits.
I couldn't care less what this guy says, and thats not because I love biscuit joiners. Anyone who holds a shallow piece of wood opposite a spinning joiner saw blade instead of using a clamp is a hack in my opinion, and as well the glue in the test should have been given 24hrs to cure 2 hrs is a total waste of time, also using two boards for a butt joint with clearly different grain patterns is ridiculous. This test could have been incredibly helpful if done correctly instead it is more of a testament to this mans wood working ineptitude.
I think it's funny he pinned this.
@@HappyGobo He probably stuck the pin in his finger.
why are you crying? Not everyone is a professional woodworker, we just want to have fun, it isn't our job, it's our hobby. And for someone who accasionaly builds stuff on the weekend, a biscuit joiner is the last tool I bought. They really don't add strengh. They are useful for specific stuff, and a weekend woodworker doesn't need that. Or maybe he just love to build melamine cabinet, then I get it.
Damn!
🤣🤣 triggered by a biscuit
My wife liked you more when you convinced me to not buy a biscuit jointer.
Especially when you convinced yourself that you'll need the red brand, Huh?
@@Lazarus-aap If anyone spends 1,000 dollars on a biscuit jointer that's dumb, at that point just put a little bit more money up and get the Festool Domino which will essentially do everything a biscuit jointer will times 100 with way more accuracy and strength lol.
@@dedalliance1 Don't worry, I will not buy it! Like, at all! I don't need it! And if I ever do want to spend money on a similar tool, I will most definitely take your advice to account!! Thanks 😉
@@dedalliance1 in theory, yes... But you'd be surprised at what justifies a tool purchase as a pro woodworker. I personally own and use a Domino for my business. It's an amazing tool. But the Lomello is on my buy list because it comes with a completely different blade than other brands. It has a locking mechanism in the biscuit joint, and also the biscuits and Lomello accessories are cheaper than the Domino stuff. The Lomello can have concealed plastic clamps inside of the joint.
Yes, you are correct that strength wise a Domino is superior. But sometimes it's not about overkilling strength as much as it is about cost effectiveness and utility.
Dude, my wife banned me from buying new tools until I made something. So, I made Steve's BMW - Basic Mobile Workbench. And my wife and I both are so proud of me.
I applaud you for being open minded and willing to take on advice, it reminded me of why I first subscribed to you, looking forward to more great videos
Lol open minded? He just admitted to deleting comments on people disagreeing with him. And said anyone disagreeing with him couldn’t possibly be a subscriber or here for actual information. Essentially the people disagreeing with him are people that are just surfing RUclips and happened to find this video.
Yeah sounds like a real open minded individual.
@@davelowesky8054 nope, he said he deleted those that were personal attacks against him, and other regular channel viewers raised rational counterpoints in their own comments, which Steve took to heart and thus led to this video. You'd know if you actually listened lmao
I'm super impressed by your humility and willingness to revisit a strong opinion. Rare trait today. Thanks!
storiestoneil TV strange... im not sure if you have to do this if you have a own idea about things.
Agreed! No no-one has to do it. And thats what makes it cool. Making a mistake is learning. If you are too good to learn you fail.
@@xw6968 One things I’ve learned over 5 decades is that it’s good to have strong ideas of your own, and to base those ideas on the best available facts. Why go through life uninformed or wishywashy? For this method to work, it’s essential to be open to new information, and be willing to change your ideas if needed.
I like my biscuit joiner, and use it enough to be glad I bought it. But I still watched both these videos and read quite a few of the comments to get different viewpoints and information. I also disagree with Mr Ramsey about the use of dowels, but that doesn’t make either of us wrong!
I definitely have that trait figured that out with harbor freight Home Depot Chevy and waterbeds
Right?
My man said, “Aight, there might something more to it. Let’s drop $150 dollars and see.”
I really admire Ramsey! lol
I was thinking of commenting on your first video, I figured others would say what I was thinking. I use biscuits daily in my custom shop. It's not about the strength at all. When you glue up panels it's just nice to have everything you can in your favor. Yeah calls are great, but it's hard to put calls in the middle of a table top. When you are gluing up 10-15 boards to a table top putting a biscuit every 12 or so inches you limit the amount of clamps you have to use to get a glue up that wont require hand plane work later or excess passes through a wide belt. You're right it's not a necessity style tool but it is something that will become invaluable if your woodworking progresses past the occasional glue up. One last tip, the only time I would use a biscuit for a cabinet door glue up would be if the center panel was plywood or mdf. It will align your joints well and the small amount of additional glue surface mixed with the glue surface around the center panel it makes a solid joint. If the panel were floating you really should do either a M&T or use something like a domino. After watching your videos for the past 6-7 years I am happy that you are still making videos for your subscription base as apposed to making videos for sponsors. The whole sponsorship thing that took hold about 4 years ago has really turned a lot of decent channels into nothing more than low rate infomercials.
I admire how well put together this comment is lol
I love that you can have an open mind and great credit for giving it another go. Love your channel I have gained a lot of knowledge from you videos. Thank you
I always love your videos and advice. Low cost project based teaching is your meat and potatoes and I really appreciate it.
This video on biscuits was just gravy.
seems like your old one was a Limp Bizkit joiner
You can show yourself out now :)
And here I had all but forgotten that band... the turd that won’t flush.
Learning the Hard Way Nickleback?!
LMAO
Bah, ha ,ha.
Anyone got a chainsaw?
It never ceases to amaze me how the "web" audience of anything has so many people who get so worked up about twiddly little stuff! Anyone, like yourself, who puts themselves out out there in the public eye, like these channels, has my sympathy.
That said, I'm glad you don't publish the real nasty crap only bc it's such a waste of time to weed through when simply trying to enjoy the content that you've put time and energy into. Kudos for having an open mind about the machine too!
It takes a lot of courage and open mindedness to make such a video. My respect for you went up a notch.
It's called mature behaviour. Quite normal, IMO.
Steve...I like the way you stay grounded...stay with the beginners because remember...there are always new people young and old that want to make things from wood but have no idea how to even begin. Your ways easily connect and capture attention of those who don't know terms and phrases associated with woodworking. keep up the good work and you will always have followers. I will always be one!
It takes confidence to address this after the fact and admit a changed position - we need more of this with political, religious beliefs and a whole host of other topics too - it's okay to change your minds people!
Steve for president? Sure. Why not?
@happy pibble ad revenue? nope. subscriptions to his course? maybe
Thanks rando! Now tell me what your politics and religion are so I can adopt them for my life, because what I want the most is for you to say I demonstrated confidence and that I'm ok.
@Videogalore: Yes! Absolutely! Never thought I would read such a meaningful opinion on a RUclips about biscuit joiners! Actually, a very good example how one can come to new insights when one is open to facts. Open to other people's opinions and experiences. Listen. Think critically. Do research. Confirm facts. It might just make one a better informed, less arrogant, humble person.
Thanks friend!
Yes, exactly!
It is a strong mind, and a person confident in themselves, who is willing to admit to being wrong, and learning something, when presented with better evidence, more convincing evidence, supporting a different viewpoint, or conclusion. This is a sign of strength not of weakness.
It is also a sign of strength and confidence in oneself to say, "I don't know,," when you actually don't know something. It is the weak-minded, the insecure, those not confident in themselves, who choose to fake knowing something, who try to act confident, and speak only in vague terms, or they try to lay down layers of doubletalk, cliches, often overly blusterous exaggerations that are strongly positive or strongly negative, they use arguments like, "slippery slope," or, "what's next," and they'll often quickly shift to attacking anyone who disagrees, often using unrelated attacks or familiar refrains, desperately trying to fool the people around them, or anyone listaing. This is also a clear and undeniable sign of dishonesty in a person .
I have never been afraid to say to anyone, any of my bosses, any of my subordinates, that I don't know something, but I have always followed the admission of not knowing something, with the immediate assurance that I take responsibility and I will find out.
If only our politicians we're capable of this behavior. But the corporations and big money interests that make massive bribes, I mean contributions to their campaign (bribes), would never allow it, so our politicians keep saying what they're saying, out of ignorance, or stupidity, or just being wrong, or because they're just repeating what they were told to say. And we almost never hear politicians say they don't know something, but we will hear almost constantly, politicians saying things that are completely untrue, usually loaded with b*******, as they are trying to cover up the fact that they don't know anyting about the topic or the issue about which they have just been asked.
Some of them actually believe that they are fooling people, or they're getting away with something, but many of them don't operate with that delusion, they just don't care because they're going to be enriching their bank accounts and that's all that matters to them.
I have been watching your videos for a couple of years now. I really like your content. Thank you for having the guts to post a video where you show that you have a flexible mind. I understand how you came to the conclusion about biscuit joiner. I have struggled with this topic myself. I am really happy to see that when you discover new information, you will publicly state that there is more to it than you thought. It is honestly like you showed that will keep me coming back to hear and see what you have to offer. Kudos.
Found on Craigslist near San Francisco moments ago "For Sale: Barely used 20 year old Biscuit Joiner made by Sears"
Only if I need a boat anchor!
Grab it quick.... 👍
I see what you did there 😉
That's where I found mine.
J. Kelley ji
You definitely got me started woodworking. I still watch your basic box video every couple months. I retired in December 2021 from Urology and needed something to do. I found that terrorizing friends and relatives with cutting boards was a lot of fun. Your 1,000k workshop is now in my rear view mirror but definitely remembered and appreciated. I recently purchased my first “green brand” domino jointer to put a large walnut waterfall table together. I’ve used it for large table slabs and seem to keep using it. I’m probably lazy but the thing sure makes a lot of things easier and way more precise than I ever was before. It doesn’t fit beginning wood working but it sure is fun ! Keep the videos coming and thanks for getting me started.
That woodworking table looks familiar.... where have I seen that before..... geez.... oh!!! Yes! I made that workbench with your course. Love it!!
THE BMW!!!!
I made 3! Love the design!
I really appreciate you re-addressing this topic. Not that I wanted you to say what I THOUGHT, but that you saw the previous comments and decided to reassess. Thanks for all your vids!
Thank you for giving the biscuit joiner another shot. I have been a shop teacher for 24 years. 7 years ago I introduced my students to biscuit joints. We don't use it for everything, but for making large panels and miter joints it does a great job. I did use it To glue up plywood legs at right angles for an augmented reality sandbox.
Next to my pocket hole jig, my yellow biscuit jointer is used very much. I will never understand people who just have something negative to say about free content. I learned to do woodworking from watching PBS on Sunday nights with Norm Abram. He used a biscuit jointer a lot, and that is why I bought one, I've had it since 1995. Thanks for your hard work in producing great content Steve. Ravens v SanFran in the Superbowl. Merry Christmas to you and the family.
That's how I got into biscuit joinery also. I like having the ability to attach trim to tabletops or carcasses without leaving nail holes.
Dont listen to those people Steve! Your the most positive woodworking instructors I've ever seen!
Thanks for all your efforts to help!
I inherited a biscuit joiner from my late father. I used it once on a project making an island where I had to glue up long boards of walnut. It helped align things for sure.
Hello Steve. That biscuit you used in the first shot was probably a bit to tight. Biscuits will absorb moisture from the air which is why I keep mine in a fairly airtight container. You want a little play left or right and you don’t want to scrape off the glue as it goes in. Also just as an FYI for any new users of biscuit joiners if you use biscuits to line up boards for a table top make sure you give the top a day or so to dry. The biscuits will swell when the absorb the moisture in the glue and create little humps where the biscuits are (this does not always happen). If you sand the boards to soon and those humps are there you will have little dips where each biscuit is. But if you let it dry for a day or so then sand the moisture from the glue will have been absorbed and equalized and you should not have any issues.
Also Steve.... the (Red) tool for $1600.00 is not technically a biscuit joiner although you can replace the blade it comes with a smaller blade and use it as a biscuit joiner. They picture you showed uses specialized fittings for joining panels, shelves and so much more. The (red) tool company does make a biscuit joiner and is the brand that Norm Abram used in the New Yankee workshop. I believe the (red) tool company was the inventor of the biscuit joiner as well but if I am wrong about that I’m sure someone will correct me.
I appreciated your video last week. I'm on a budget and I never see any of the guys I follow RUclips use one. So... thank you for helping me make up my mind and saving me some money. 😊
They aren't necessary for nearly any task. Source: 15 years woodworking, inserted less than 20 briskets in my life.
@@knytetech7732 I love a good brisket.
Wow your manuals look really detailed. I've never expected it to look so graphical. You must have put a lot of time in them. Even the cutting list and how to cut with the least loss 🙏
The biscuit joiner is an interesting tool: It's extremely useful in a lot of ways, except for the tasks it was designed to do.
That makes no sense.
It is a jointing machine and it joints simple as that.
Love how you listened to the comments and took the time to refine it (even if that meant trudging through vitriol I don't even want to imagine). Very open minded but still stuck to your guns and explained that it was not a useless as you thought BUT still had very little use in the "mere mortals" world, Which is what your loyal viewers want to hear about.
I will give my 2 cents also here. Yes B joiner is a specialize power tool and from what i see here they should not fit so tight (finger press), probably your biscuits got some moisture and have swollen up. But biscuits are very useful also when joining melamine particle boards, the biscuits when wet with glue, will swollen up and give a tight hold up.
There is a hand crank machine to run the biscuit through to re compress it so it fits easily in the slot
@@tommoores1531 yes but this should not be the norm as presented here
@@tommoores1531 Vise?
Nope, I disagree, when used in particle board they swell up and either split the board or cause humps on the finished surface, same when used in MDF boards
@@colstace2560 well those humps are called telegraphing and it can happen even more in solid wood. But it can be avoided if you cut the slots in the center of your wood or cut them near the bottom rather than near the top. Any floating tenon like system or dowels (even screws) will slightly split the particle board horizontally near the slot/hole, if its of low quality board, and after many years, Particle board furniture don't last forever, you can easily see this effect when you dismantle old furniture. IMO it's not the biscuit that makes this problem but the slot cut due to moisture, because the particle board has allot air space to give in when the biscuit dries out after gluing. Also you can see in old furniture that when trying to remove the biscuit it comes off with a big piece of particle board holding tight on the center top and bottom of it. That's just my opinion of-course ... Merry Christmas my friend :)
I'm really impressed that you were listened to the comments and gave something another try! As someone who is just getting into woodworking your videos are a big help and I appreciate them. Thank you for making them!
Dude the halloween videos are my favorite!
lol, me too! 😁
ditto!
+++
@@SteveRamsey That, and the yearly film recommendations!
yup
I didn't see the comments on your other video but I've LOVED watching you over the past year since discovering you channel Dec 2018. So informative, helpful, and FUN! I didn't know a thing about woodworking 18 months ago. Today, I make (and sell!) an average of two custom projects a month. You and your channel are awesome! Thanks for the continual updates!
I was literally just watching another video of another woodworker who was saying that he loves his biscuit joiner and thought of you..... And then got this video notification during watching that. Never wrong to reconsider things 🙂
Bent's Woodworking?
@@peterkleiner9114 sure was
@@jakekeller4092 Lol I figured, same here. Which is why I was scratching my head at Steve's earlier biscuit-bashing video. ;-)
Thank you Steve, I am a Veterinarian but I like a lot woodworking, I have been learning a lot just looking at your videos. Keep on sharing your knowledge with us, mere mortals. I apologize for my orthografic mistakes.
Steve: "Yellow Brand Tool Company"
Stanley: "Am I joke to you?"
DeWalt=Stanley
@@patricelebrasseur5649 Dewalt = Black and Decker
www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/our-businesses/our-brands
More than you think actually.
Stanley, yes.
Patrice Le Brasseur, Black & Decker owns almost everything now...
I am glad to see Your follow up video. I ordered a biscuit joiner and hoping to find it useful.Some people swear by them. Others do not care for them.
this is one quick handy tool that you can use for a lot of things....i say that bcause i can remember of have been using it in a shop where i learnd carpenter....very mighty tool...
I have watched numerous videos on using biscuit joiners and none of them use the method that was taught to me. I worked with an extremely experienced cabinet maker that taught me to glue everything up thoroughly then dip the biscuits in water before inserting them into the slots and clamping the pieces together. The water causes the biscuit to swell as the glue dries making for an incredibly strong joint. I have used the water method for 20 years with no failures.
Also .. I was taught that you should put woodwork glue in the slot .. not just to add glue . but it expands the biscuit making the join stronger . .. I mostly use biscuits when I join 38 mm kitchen bench tops .. I couldn't get a smooth join with out them !!!
I always respect someone that is willing to change an opinion because they look into it further. Love you steve! You have taught me a lot brother.
8:44 says it all. Thank you Steve Ramsey! I appreciate how 'real' you are re woodworking for mere mortals, which is most of us.
That is wrong, I bought one on eBay for $50. a Dewalt just like that one barely used. I would not pay 150 for one and it does help a lot getting planks aligned.
I now agree 100% with your revised opinion and give you props for listening to your viewers. Now everyone learned something, a credit to your core beliefs!
Hi Steve. Do not forget to “dry” your biscuits as they expand with humidity. Once dry they should be kept in an airtight box. The biscuits would probably then not be quite as tight
Nobody likes soggy biscuits...
I always bake mine in the oven 200’ for 15 min, and lots or gravy!
Yeah the glue makes them swell !
To dry, do you just leave them sit in a shelf for a few days, or something else?
@@MixingGBP
Microwave
Love the fact that you are humble enough to admit that you may be wrong. I don't own one as I don't think I really need one. Your channel is great, ignore the haters.
One of your weekend woodworkers, JB. 👍🏼
On the joiner you used there is a drop down piece that allows you to set the depth of the biscuit cut from the top face. If you use boards of different thickness it allows you to align the top of the board so you get a flat surface.
I am glad that you are prepared to re-assess your opinion.
I used to be a cabinet maker in a London based workshop and have used as an employee a number of makes of biscuit jointer including an earlier iteration of the DeWalt that you demonstrated. We did have Lamello biscuit jointers and the build quality is superb but they seem to have rather rested on their laurels. The work for which biscuit jointers are most suited is assembling sheet material carcases or cabinets. In the company for whim I used to work almost everything was assembled with biscuits. One could be pretty sure of a good alignment of level and a reasonable level of strength.
Biscuits are intended to be assembled with pva as the biscuits are compressed and swell in the joint due to the bloating caused by the water content of the pva giving greater mechanical strength than otherwise. The disadvantage of this is that the biscuits need to be kept well away from the surface of the joint to avoid bulges in the surface of the sheet material.
Using a hammer to drive biscuits in can cause trouble as the bruising on the edge of the biscuit can hinder assembly. When using pva assembly does need to be quite swift as the swelling of the biscuits causes them to grab. Sash clamps are a good idea.
Edge joining with biscuits is stronger than a rubbed joint just as a tongue and groove is as one is adding a mechanical joint.
Biscuits are very poor when used as a substitute for traditional timber joints such as mortice and tenons. That is not really what they were devised for.
If one does intend to assemble many carcases a biscuit jointer is a good idea and is much faster in production that dowels which are a non starter for speed and the jigs are on the whole really slow and over a long joint attaining alignment is very difficult.
Most biscuit jointers have very similar fences and it has been very frustrating over the years when one has to join carcases at an angle such as under eaves. The only biscuit jointer which truly addresses this matter is the Porter Cable though there is a cheap copy branded SIP in the U.K. which is largely the same with one or two detail differences that do not affect operation in the short term. What these two offer is the ability to hook over the acute angle of the bevelled end allowing a much more positive location than other jointers which can only hook over the obtuse angle of the bevel giving a rather uncertain location.
One other use that I recently had for a biscuit jointer was in producing ladder frame grounds for skirting boards. In many Victorian houses plaster is exceedingly thick and if the old skirting boards are damaged or missing then the grounds usually coma away with the boards. A good straight square set of grounds is much easier to fix to than wavy plaster or bits of timber already full of nails or screws.
Why not have a bash at assembling a carcase with the good jointer that you now have and see how you get on?
I just started working with a cousin and he makes custom made kitchens and closets and he uses a biscuit joiner a lot!
and quite faster, he's been in this job for about 25 years.
my point exactly. Using the biscuit jointer, you need less clamps and you have less rush during the glue up because the biscuits keep everything in place. It has become one of the tools I use very often.
Im glad you enjoyed the biscuit joiner, but absolutely LOVE the begginers focus of this channel. PLEASE DONT MOVE AWAY FROM THAT!
Hello Steve, glad to see you’re taking a second look at biscuit joinery. Not making the comment that you’re using a metal hammer I do also to insert my biscuits. It looks like you’re pushing the biscuit in to far or you have not adjusted the tool quite right... Where if you put a centerline on your biscuit then tap it in to the centerline/mark so that way You can monitor the installation process... Then the biscuit would be centered more equally in the two slots. Which would make for a stronger joint especially on a number 20 biscuit. Good come back video ... Greg
A great teacher isn't afraid to learn himself. Love the show....
One of my favorite sarcastic sayings is,”everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if they’re wrong.”
@tyler stevens you stole my saying. Lol
As I often tell people, "hey, I can't make you right."
"Opinions are like a**holes - everyone has one, and everyone except mine stinks" :)
These two videos are awesome. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond to the community, showing humility, and, ha, coming to the same conclusion.
You're the freakin best man. I've never looked forward more to giving somebody I've never met $97 for something I know nothing about. BUT! I have half of a two car garage that I need to make work!
I'm new to woodworking and shocked by all the comments for this tool. If i could do 1/8th of the projects you do, and still manage to have my work come out as beautiful as yours I would be ecstatic. Thanks for helping the new guy learn how to make a simple project better.
I bought one used when I was starting out (BUY ALL THE TOOLS!). Even though I agree with your assessment, I have to say, I really love using it. I have no idea why, it's just particularly satisfying. But then I also love drilling perfect holes with my drill press and Forstner bits, so go figure. :-)
Sums up my experience as well.
Hi Steve, new wood worker here, really love the craft and wisdom you share. Thank you for all of the informative videos. Keep on being awesome!
Glad you're open-minded, Steve! The biscuit joiner has its purpose...one of those tools that collects a lot of dust until you REALLY need it. TIP: I noticed you store your biscuits in a cardboard box. Biscuits are VERY susceptible to high moisture environments - - they will swell. Store them in an airtight container with some small desiccant pouches. They will stay nice and 'thin', won't swell, and will last for years. Thank you for the video!
You're presumably allowed you're own opinion without getting lambasted by a bunch of bored keyboard warriors? Keep going Mr Ramsey, you're my hero. Most of what I know about woodworking has come from you, thank you for all your splendid efforts.
just wanted to say thank you, im a sales associate at a home depot and your videos honestly help me more for knowledge on tools than the store provided videos
Woah woah woah there. As a Home Depot employee you're not allow to actually know anything useful. Your job is to hang out and chat with other employees in the aisle, read the packaging to the customers and send customers to the other end of the store as you sneak off to the break room.
I went into Lowe's one day As I walked in a guy asked me if I needed any help
I asked him where his wood screws were at
He looked at me very strangely and he said "all the screws are down aisle 3 but I believe they're all made of metal "
I thought he might have been joking with me but the man was completely serious
I would never have known Home Depot provided any form of tool knowledge to their employees beyond where it is on the shelf.
when you do a large glue up that wont fit in a planer it makes it so you can glue up two or more narrower pieces then plane them and biscuit joint the pieces you ran through the planer together for alignment. Say for a table top that way all you need to do is sand then finish.
Done that! But used the router table to make the slots instead of the biscuit jointer.
I'm glad you posted this. Awhile back I purchased a cheap "detail" biscuit joiner at the pawn shop for about $20. It sat for a bit without use. Then I watched your video about how useless regular sized biscuit joiners are. I felt my small one must be complete garbage. I was about to ebay it starting at a penny just to get it out of my garage. Then the day before I was going to post it on eBay I found myself building a small wooden gift box to use instead of wrapping a friends gift. I decided such a small project didn't need much strength so I gave the little biscuit joiner a try on all of the joints in the entire project. It was pretty useful, but the biscuits were sloppy like your old joiner. However they held enough that I did not need many clamps or a pin nailer. For me even being a beginner I think I will keep this around for the small stuff because it is really easy to use. Also I got mine so cheap that it's not a cost issue. However being a "detail" biscuit joiner it's possible that the smaller biscuits may be hard to find some day in the future. Anyway thanks for another great video, Steve!
for the first 2 minutes I was thinking of Norm Abram "bicuiting" the sh*** out of every project, then you mention it LOL. I loved that guy.
Woodworking sanctuary is the most appropriate term I have heard for a shop. I can be creative, productive and have peace of mind in my shop. Thanks for your honest videos.
I use my bisuit joiner for adding hardwood edging to sheet goods. The biscuits make it so that there is perfect alignment between the top of the edging and the top of the sheet. It saves a bunch of sanding and scraping.
I picked a yellow one up sometime ago. Only started using recently when I needed to make some new workshop cabinets and it made squaring up the sides so much easier. Must also say Striplox plastic biscuits take it to another level.
As a profesional electrician all I can say is that no matter what kind of joint you use in a cabinet the all break when the woodworker forgets to cut the hole for the wall plugs
Or he's a smart professional and use words that all non professionals understan!
Bob Not quite, we call them plugs in the field, If i use the code terms I would be talking to myself, have a nice day
Ash Wolf Thats so funny I am form Texas trough, didn’t find any pimp to get my license...that would have been awesome
Håkan Carlsson You know how is it brother
Bob Yes i did
I'm merely a mere mortal & woodworker, I use my biscuit joiner for large panel glue ups. 50% of the time, works every time! Seriously love the channel and the instruction. Peace... PoFoMoCo
Using a metal hammer to tap in the biscuits into the slots is going to trigger a lot of people out there Steve.....
A tubular steel hammer, no less :'(
Thor hammer master race
I think that's the point lol
Could have used a mallet I guess but then the discussion would be whether Beech, or Persimmon, etc. is the proper wood ?
hahaha
I really appreciate all your videos. This one was very humble. An underrated quality. Thank you!
Norm Abbrams was my favorite shows back when inner webs were just getting going , you used to be able to explore his shop online it was kool !!!
I got to meet Norm Abrams one time and he was very friendly.
Right on man, I recommend your channel to everyone that steps into my shop with any interest in the hobby.
Love your open mindedness in redoing a video for this interesting tool! Good to know bisquits should fit tightly.
Thank you for being so open Steve. It’s rare to find someone that will be open to saying they’re wrong and testing out the alternatives.
I am a beginning woodworker (about 2 years). It’s one of the first tool I have bought and it’s one that I use the most. It ensure clean, tight and solid joints. I get great results on miter joint, flat or vertical. Results would have been much different if you had made a complete frame with miter joints and biscuits, and then try to break it.
To Be Honest I didn't even Watch The other Video because as A Woodworking Contractor here in Calif. I use My old porter cable Biscuit Joiner quite Often.. for all sorts of different application mainly to align parts Together . I'm glad to see you've changed your mind a little on biscuit joiners , Good for you, but you are right it's not sometime that a beginning woodworker would really need . One last thing and I'm sure you know this , If you put THE Fence Down flat and not Up like in your Video you'll have a better chance at Keeping your parts More Flush / Flat . Thanks For All You Do .
Like you mentioned in your previous video, i had no idea what a biscuit joiner was. Just like I didn’t know what a pocket screw was 2 years ago.....but thanks to you, now I do. Thank you. ☺️
It is also useful for joints (including butt joints) with MDF for furniture, especially when veneered.
I have a book from the 80s that describes this way to use it several times in the projects, and as shown on the page they don't look half bad. Fancy even.
Very honnest video! I love the biscuit jointer to make cabinet joinery. Joining plywood hardwood or other materials go effortlessly and dont require high accuracy. They are just so fast!
for butt joints, depending on wood thickness, I use a stack of two or three biscuits, which adds considerable strength. And depending on the glue, I don't consider the joint at full strength for up to 24 hours. That would have made a big difference on the test.
Awesome on you for taking another look at biscuit jointers. We use them all the time for aligning long runs of window sills in commercial buildings
Spent 20 minutes looking for 'funny' comments didnt find any.
Love you Steve
Purchased a Lamello TopTen about 25 yrs ago for some crazy amount of money ... probably inspired by Norm Abrams ... and am using same tool today on a current home project. For me it's an essential tool for both the alignment benefit it offers, a huge benefit IMO, but it goes beyond that. As for the strength biscuits add to a piece ... no scientific tests here but my many casual tests over the years indicate a great deal of added strength is achieved.
I liked this video. Developing conversation.
Fair play to you Steve for not ignoring comments, to make a video that showed you being genuinely surprised by the effectiveness of "yellow tool company's" biscuit jointer.
Kudos to you for listening and trying again a tool you had dismissed.
There are a lot of "A" Type woodworkers..........very high strung! I'm glad you ruffled some feathers! Your original video still stands and makes sense. Yes, the new joiner is better with tighter fits, but so are dowels!! Nasty comments are just crap!! Great comeback video Steve..........keep going!! DD
Thanks for posting the follow up, to me it showed dedication to getting the most practical and useful information out there and available. as an aside, I too own a biscuit joiner and I use biscuits when I need alignment with more give than a dowel pin would allow.
This was a good test. One suggestion, you should try the “Yellow Brand Blade” in your 15 year old biscuit joiner. That might make the slots tighter for your 15 year old machine. 🤔🤔
Thank you Steve, some of us just enjoy working with wood and are not master craftsmen - you saved me a bucket of 💰.
Is it just me or does he get younger?
Jonah Vimalathasan - could be the haircut. But learning new things is what keeps us all young. 😉
@@FirstLast-zr9cy It's the haircut !!!
He is doing good. Money and time makes u look young
I'm guessing, but do you guys realize that Steve was very sick?
More likely due to change in diet and habits, rather than money and time.
Steve found the secret to immortality but graces us mere mortals with his knowledge and wisdom... when it comes to woodworking anyway
How power tools and their accuracy has changed over the years, glad you put it to the test.
2 comments on from this, either your biscuits were damp or the wrong size for the slot cut, and using a metal hammer can damage the biscuits so the edges flare out.
Full respect for giving it another go.
I used my biscuit jointer to attach stretchers to table legs... I built mine 13 years ago and although people say there is no/limited strength to biscuits, the table is still solid. If I made it now I would do mortise and tenon...but it works!
It's not that there is no strength... it's just the strength they add is less than the strength the glue gives normally... so they dont add any extra strength...
@@spunkmeyer43 No, not in this case. They do add strength how I used them. I joined stretchers (end grain) to the legs (long grain). There would be zero glue strength. The biscuits became loose tenons in my table. So, your comment is not accurate. My point was people say the biscuit itself is weak. I'm saying, while they may be weak on their own, they have held up okay in my small table.
@@JayWC3333 but obviously they would add marginal strength to end grain ad glue is all but ineffective... however no one should be considering biscuits for that use...
@@spunkmeyer43We're going around in circles. In fact you're typing what I had already said above and you seem to be trying to prove you're right where it's not needed. I know the end grain glue thing already. In fact I already typed that there is zero strength for that condition above. You're preaching to the choir. My point is: when I was new in the woodworking hobby I did use biscuits for the table legs. So, I did consider them and they did work despite what everyone says. The biscuits have given more than marginal strength. Do you understand what I'm saying now?
@@JayWC3333 I do... and I disagree... the biscuits havent added strength.
I have a biscuit joiner I got really cheap years ago. I don't use it much. Since getting a pocket jig set-up, I have not used the joiner at all. I appreciate the videos you put out and the time it takes to do them in the professional manner you do. For me, the most efficient use of my time has been with pocket joints. Maybe a demo on PJ vs Biscuits is in order as well. Thanks again.
"Yellow brand tool company" Epic!
Old video but yay on being open to change / adjust your opinion. That's really great to see. Biscuit joiners are common here in Germany for joining parts of kitchen counters and that basically has the purpose of keeping everything in place nicely while you tighten it up by putting screws into the counter from below through the cabinet tops. You can easily replace that with a second person keeping an eye on your counter.
Great Video . Dont listen to the haters
I'll throw in my ha'penny's worth.. As a furniture maker I find a biscuit jointer an invaluable tool for cabinet making, assembling carcasses and drawer sides for example. They create a strong bond that will not fail before the surrounding material does. I find them great for dry fitting before final glue up as the biscuits are easily removed, unlike Festool domino's which I find can damage the material when removing after a dry fit.
My favourite biscuit jointer is the Elu DS140 jointer/groover. An even more versatile jointer, which operates with a scissor action rather than plunge action. I still have two of these but alas, Dewalt bought out Elu and in their wisdom discontinued the model.
Biscuits are avaliable in four sizes. No. 20, No. 10, Zero and FF.
With 20 being the largest and FF being the cute tiny ones.
I've watch you for the longest time, and like your show. but on the biscuit joiner don't shove the biscuit all the way in on the first wood ,. When you clamp it together it will be more even on both side. Love your show.
I dabble occasionally working with my tools but I kept saying “don’t put it all the way in” but I may now have to get a biscuit joiner
I agree with many of the points you made. I don't like single-use tools because I feel they're wasteful of both money and space. The one time a year I'd need to do that, I'll just use dowels.
Thanks for another great video!
I also noticed that you depended solely on the biscuit alone when gluing up, that is, you didn't spread the glue on the face of the wood itself as you did the other. If done in addition to gluing the joints itself as you did the second (w/o bisc.) then I think you would have an even stronger joint.
+1 Though people often don't glue the biscuits when they are used for alignment. This may go back to some theories when they first came out here about glued biscuits telegraphing when boards were edge jointed with them. Since edge joints are 100% anyway, they came up with the idea of not gluing them, plus it makes the glue up easier if it is going to potential kick off on you before you get everything in the clamps. I have never had telegraphing myseld.
Just FYI I have been using a biscuit jointer for years and I love it and use it often. To each his own I guess I would say. I like you site and visit it often. Merry Christmas.
Internet Troll:
Non-Scientific test: “That’s why it failed”
Scientific test: “That’s not real world”
Some people just like to complain. 😏
Philip Partain - Semper Fi!
Gary S. Semper Fi Gary!! (I just realized my phone had auto-corrected that to Spanish “siempre”. Freakin’ Siri. 😏
I have been using a biscuit joiner for 20 yrs. I bought a dewalt joiner the. And still use it today. Although I use it on a much more limited basis than I used to it still comes in handy sometimes.
In 30+ years of woodworking, the biscuit cutter has been a great tool, especially for cabinet work...llloooooong before pocket screws, and way easier than dowels.
Yes, but now that pocket joinery exists, what are your thoughts?
@@michaelkraft6018 well, it's a great way to join 2 pieces of wood, but it's very ugly and requires zero skill to utilize...which is probably why it's the go to for 90% of all RUclips carpenters. Sorta like resin...everyone thinks that they're creating works of art by slathering some resin on some wood...they're not. Even after 30 years of woodworking I still do not know everything, and would never call myself a master, yet there are several RUclipsr's who refer to themselves as masters, or experts. I don't know, different mindset I guess. But for me, all my cabinetry is done with biscuits, they're just...better.
@@douglasgoldstein8990 Zero skill is precisely why I love them! I really enjoy putting things together, but I am NOT a craftsman and I do not have lots of free time to work on projects. I also have no dedicated space. So when I get started on something, it means a lot of prep in my garage and hope for good weather, work quickly and get it done. The great thing about pocket screws - no clamp up and waiting for the glue to set, and the bond is super strong. Yes, they are ugly, but you work to bury those where they can't be seen.
@@michaelkraft6018 I hear ya, and I do respect people more for at least trying to build their own stuff, rather than just buying it pre made.
My biggest gripe with pocket screws, aside from the fact they can be ugly (even with the plugs). It's that 'diyers' use them for every damn thing. They're fine for a number of things, quick and easy so long as it's not showing like cabinet facing or something, maybe dresser carcasses. But I see people like oh I put together this heavy duty lumber rack or I built this entire bed frame using nothing but pocket screws. (facepalm). Hot glue is fantastic too, for attaching felt to something. Not for hanging a 55" tv on the wall. It has its limits.