SaltEMike Reacts to Summit1g Quitting Star Citizen
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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I saw Summit playing Star Citizen last night. Saying he's done with Star Citizen, then coming back to play again ?.........that makes him an official Citizen now. Welcome to the verse o7
He literally said he's coming back more aggressive with 4.0 -- only reason he stopped playing last night was because he couldn't find anyone to tuck on their ships and his usual spots weren't well populated, so he switched to Sea of Thieves to do the same thing he was doing in Star Citizen in Sea of Thieves.
I almost rage quit on the 9th Overdrive Initiative Delivery attempt.
@@Billy-bc8pk yeah he went from sea of thieves to space of thieves vice versa. on his way to be the best pirate of both worlds
LOL... O7
@@vik12D Lol. Yeah... But you got your F7A MKII? And it was an epic feeling at the end... the bugs are a feature... it makes for an entirely new feeling of accomplishment, right?
I'm not a fan of funneling pve players into killboxes so the pirates dont get bored. If thats the move then call it star pirate, not star citizen.
So the point of Star Citizen for me is: Don't force me into gameplay I don't want to be in. Star Citizen should be a sandbox where you, the player, decide what to do next. This means if you want to go pirate, then there must be enough victims. If you want to go chilling, then there must be enough retreat to do that without bothering about pirates. This is a split that can only be made using NPC AI. And we will get there with the NPC/PC ratio of 9/1 that will eventually happen. If there are no players available to be victims, then NPC AI will spawn instead and you can pirate them. You will not even see the difference. The NPC AI needs to get ramped up to populate the system / universe really soon, until that happens the game is not a game but an empty sandbox.
Easiest way to avoid sitting for hours just to pirate is don't pirate.
@3:22 Frankly, the "be an asshole" game loop isn't disincentivized _enough._
...and it shouldn't be either. There should be a counter to it that rewards the player very well. You get rewarded far too much for committing crimes, as it's easier to get money that way and then just 'clear' your criminal status using a fucking USB drive. It's so stupid.
lol, he didn't even quit. He said he was going to take a break until 4.0 after playing for 12 hours a day, every day, for a month.
He’s doing what all long term backers are doing. We play the new stuff and then wait until the next patch. I’m waiting for physicalized cargo, I’ll play it out and then wait for 4.0 and engineering and pyro. Rinse and repeat. It will be like that until it’s a finished game, which it isn’t even close to yet. It’s an alpha and will be for some time to come.
"he didn't quit the game, he's just not playing it for an indefinite amount of time" 😂
They all say that they Quit ... Just like Grumpy Eye ...
@@StuartGT That's... not quitting. Quitting means you're done with something. Literal dictionary definition: "To leave, usually permanently."
Breaking for a few months until the next big content patch isn't quitting. and it's something pretty much every gamer has done with every game.
@@cthree87 Yep, pretty much what I do as well. I hop in every 4-6 months, play like crazy for a few months and mess with all the new stuff, then break for another 4-6 months.
6:58 "piracy hubs" - yea, imagine you have 30% chance that your cargo mission will be pirated along with your investments worth of days of gameplay. What a perspective.
No kidding, what a take. This was painful to listen to. And you spend hours grinding just to have a "pvp'er" grief you. You come back and kill them and they go to jail for 20 min that they can serve while logging out and playing rust. The consequences for lawful players is millions of credits and hours of gameplay lost and griefers get a slap on the hand.
You say I want to grind in peace and Mike is like shut up, your stupid, I wanna pvp so let me grief you or go play Zelda
@@mbrooks842exactly, this would be the quickest way to disincentivize peaceful professions like mining and specifically trading.
That's why you prepare yourself, hire crew/play with friends. If you go into a high risk area without being prepared and get your ass handed to you, it's on you.
@@Kim-ug4fy What is risk for pirates here? Where is the balance? Why some players should "prepare themself, gather crew and friends" and still risk cargo worth of several days of grind while other players risk like 4hours in Klescher and have a chance to get profit worth of several days of grind? Would you agree to spend as much time in Klescher as was spent on grinding that cargo? Like several days, a week of active hand mining, not just sleeping it over in your bed.
Yesterday I did ROC mining, for 3 hours, just for "fun". One hour of futile surface pinging, two server disconnects with claiming both ROC and Cutlas loosing all cargo. Two server crashes where I had to bed logoff because ROC stopped functioning. Overall in 3hours my profit was about 200k. I imagine some heehoo streamer pirated me "for fun" - I'd probaly make a vow not to pay CIG a penny until they get GOTY somwhere in 2035.
@@Kim-ug4fy For some reason my previous comment is hidden.
Instead I'll give you an example. Last week I had an entertainment. I took 890j and half an hour rammed duper's C2s at A18 spaceport. I destroed like 6-7 C2 with cargo apparently, probably the cost of cargo was several millions, may be tens of millions . I got to Klescher, had 500k of fines and 6hrs of sentence. I spent 1 minute there. I wrote in chat to a guy who trade merits, paid him 72k, he sent me merits and I got out. This is legitimate game mechanic! This is level of risk for piracy.
"Prepare yourself" gosh.
9:04 - What to do if you want PvP? Do a couple missions that get you a high crimestat and wait for the players who take your bounty. You're red. You get all the PvP you want. They get your marker and come to you.
I've seen summit rage about games that are fully functional let alone this mess. Was a miracle he lasted more than a day
Just goes to show that there isn’t really anything else quite like SC out on the market rn, jank and all.
I think any of you that haven't ever sailed or been on a ship before need to take a good hard look at how much 'waiting' was actually involved in real piracy.
Do you think pirates just raid ships back to back to back? They'd go sometimes months without seeing another target. Sometimes over a year.
Waiting is part of 'springing a trap' and piracy. Crying about having to wait is ridiculous. If you aren't willing to wait to get lucky, then ask CIG to put in a steady back -to back stream of PvE ships coming to a station that you can just 'raid' as you like.
But where's the fun in simply having piracy be a 'conveyor belt' of available ships to raid? Where's the strategy in where to be, where's the reward in waiting and actually striking gold? If gold is in every strike, where's the hunt?
Waiting is fine. Piracy SHOULD take time. If it was a guaranteed loop, every chad and his brother would be pirates and not a single player would ever haul cargo again.
it's missing a fun pve experience, or a consistent way to get pvp like jumptown was
pyro will probably do both of those, hopefully
I mean I get what you're saying but there's a middle ground.
@@VuDude17 the problem with games is that they need to minimize timeframes since people don't have as much time as in real life, which is hard when going for a realistic and immersive experience
@ironwar8501 I understand what you're saying but, I don't believe every game on the market needs to cater to people with quote on quote "don't have as much time". Sure video games can probably cut some fat here and there to optimize time to task but minimize? No. If you're on that much of a squeeze for time, you as a consumer probably should realize two things. Perhaps immersive video games that require a heavy time investment aren't for me and I should find another game or two maybe I don't have the luxury in life to enjoy video games as much as I used to. A game for everyone is a game for noone.
@@VuDude17 I love that you quote arrowhead, and I agree with you, but I also want star citizen to have as many players as possible to make an even more epic universe, but I guess that'll have to be a dream
99% of SC players quit. Then come back a year later only to be disappointed by the lack of progress and quit again.
Yep, our discord is a turn style of new players.
Definitely seem like accurate very scientific calculations there. Good to know that you've got exact figures. Thanks for the info.
That's me in a nutshell lmao
@@IIITangentIII He took that whole "pull statistics out of nowhere" thing to heart.
Oh, it’s Magic the Gathering 😂
so mike makes a living out for streaming SC. 99% of his audience plays SC. and he calls all SC players idiots? wtf dude maybe should go back to casino and dealing cards
Nah I’m good…
He’s right though
If single players are in Stanton and PvP only players in Pyro…how are the PvPers standing around??? If they all want PvP then that’s the reward…If they are not non-stop fighting each other then it tells me they only want to target players who want to play it safer.
You're right. They don't want a fight, they want a target. They can go play Arena Commander and get guaranteed PvP content all day long.
This is just the rant of the ganking community whining that they can't track down helpless players. If they get what they want, those non-combat players will quit. "Nobody is doing it" is what will happen if it's so easy to track down players.
So the game will only be good when there is an endless supply of player cargo and mining ships to attack?
Îf only there were NPC ships which could be pirated too
That is the only fix for the loop, not more players.
There will be. People don't read or follow development. BUT, what it comes down to is getting better at figuring out trade routes and ways to pirate. I am quite good at it. But the point of the game is not piracy. If it was, then it would be called Space Pirates. Camping a space station is just not realistic anyway. If piracy was so easy, then everyone would do it. People just can't get it through their thick skulls that there is something MUCH bigger being created here. Not only that, but it's still in an early alpha phase. I love it when people bitch about it all. It just goes to show who the whiny bitches are who don't have the mental acuity to follow the development and then be able to understand and appreciate what has gone into creating this vast, hand crafted world. Notice how the people bitching have no idea what goes into creating a game with so many moving parts. If you want a simple game for a simple mind, go play PUBG... and I'm referring to the whiny streamers and players that are constantly shitting on other people's life's work while they only have the skill to whine on video about a game and exploit it.
LoL Stalking players to attack is all about waiting or creating ambush spaces. CIG is not going to do the work for you.
I have no idea who that guy is, oh well. As for learning other parts of the game, just doing weekly dogfight training with my org, doing orbital drills and becoming a better pilot really changed the game for me. FPS is a great part. I started doing mostly just MOLE mining, then started branching out and there really is a lot of gameplay now. I started in 2016 and in 2024 Id rather play Star Citizen than Elite Dangerous or Eve, etc.
Summit1g is the OG. Streaming wouldnt be where it is without his early contributions
@@McMTG100% every single streamer knows who summit is. He is one of the OGs. Super cool dude too
@@McMTGand we still dont care or know who he is.
Fps is bad in Star Citizen. NPCs barely respond most of the time.
I feel exactly the same way and totally agree. Glad you're enjoying it
As for piracy, please try to catch this. Your pirating, others don't want to be pirates, they want a chill relaxed hour or two flying around in an (alpha) game, so they avoid pirates and take a couple extra steps to stay out of pirate known areas/interdiction lanes and a few credits loss by going to less profitable cargo routes.
That equated to less available opportunities to pirate. The large amount of casual solo players are either not running game loops that provide easy meat for pirates or because they don't want to be easy meat while running cargo in ships pirates target learn the common practices of pirates to reduce likelihood of contact with pirates.
Few times I run freight/ore/cargo, I don't land if there is a spotter at the pickup, and I dogleg into the delivery location to avoid snaring.
Hearing "I wanna be a pirate and take your stuff! Make it easier for me!" Means one thing. Those not wanting to be pirated are better at it than pirates are at being pirates.
I mean yeah in a game called Star CITIZEN I would imagine that you're gonna have more to do if you act like a law abiding CITIZEN and do regular work, what a shock.
"I'm so angry that victims don't just constantly fall into my lap every five kilometers" Hopefully what he's wishing for will come true if CIG gets around to populating the Verse with wandering NPC ships waiting to be poached.
I dropped in on his streams a couple of times and saw exactly what I expected; typical tourist calling what they're doing piracy, and calling people out for stream sniping (classic summit), when what he was doing was typical seal clubbing - hunting miners on Yela, no "your money or your life", no REAL piracy, just straight squadding up in fighters and shooting anything that moves, and getting salty when people came to defend them.
I'd say that they should try playing on servers with the REAL pirates, but they'd just call hax/sniping and swap servers, because most of the real pirates have been honing their craft in this game for years.
RMC should not be purchasable, period! Doing legit salvage is nearly impossible because the market is saturated with C2 RMC traders.
Jesus christ this again. People duping is what's making RMC a pain to sell, not it being a tradeable commodity. In no universe is it impossible to have RMC also be a tradeable commodity. It worked perfectly fine before the dupe exploit so can we stop trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Also Salvagers are also using the dupe exploit. CIG need to fix the ACTUAL problem, not paper over it.
Hey it's buzz lol. I've been able to pretty consistently sell at grim, but you take about a 2k cut per box for doing so
tbh its the dupe glitch that causes this more than anything else, selling rmc wasnt nearly as hard before
@@daren5393 I’ve had more luck selling at scrapyards where the supers can’t dupe.
Freelancer was my first game online that I got to play. I loved playing that game. The largest reasons I get excited about the potential of star citizen are mostly tied to the fun I had on freelancer.
Me as well
still do discovery :) its free
"Muh pvp"
When will PVP players understand that +90% of people dont want to pvp ? No PVP focused MMO ever made a success...
PVP players need to lower their expectations.
They all say that they Quit ... Just like Grumpy Eye ...
i always anticipated players would sit in the middle of the main routes between planets and stations with an interdictor and jump you there. so i already jump at angles and never directly to my location to avoid crossing a well travelled path. jump to a different target, then abort and plot another jump, etc
Summit just follows the money..
This is the most brain dead comment in the entire world, summit has created most of the gaming metas with soda on twitch…he’s never followed he’s led.
@@saltemikereacts that's the perfect face to make for summit
the problem is there are some pvpers that dont even want pvp they want to kill pve players. they dont want a real fight they just want a win. it doesnt take many of them to ruin the game for everyone else.
EvE has a really robust scanning system which lets you find stuff, people and all kinds of goodies. good scanners are key to any good pvp/pve
As other ppl mentioned, I have no idea who this guy is. Still, I'm happy he's calling all the shit out.
CIG has hundreds of devs working on cool ships, while the game is still shit.
I'd rather have 10 ships and a game to play, than 150 ships and a mere tech demo
by using the words tech demo youre allowing them to get away with what they are doing, its an alpha GAME. a tech demo doesnt have what this game has
@@michaelstevens230 yup glad someone has the sense to see that
have you played the game recently? its pretty good in its current form. I would say its several levels over a "tech demo". a tech demo would have been the hanger modules from 10 years ago where you could just run around and look at your jpegs. lol
@@fakiirification exaaaactly, cant even call it a playable demo anymore, there are gameplay loops. now, whether they are cohesive and finished is another story but they are certainly there
@@michaelstevens230 who's definition of a demo are you following. there is no industry standard for what a Demo can entail. Please provide me with proof of the rules on how the term demo can be used. And random youtube videos of someone explaining what someone else in their discord or social circle told them does not count nor does some random reddit post or subreddit.
Having all players clumped together in a “hub” is the exact opposite of what CIG is trying to do with server meshing. I think a lot of these complaints will go away once we have +800 person servers.
unironically once more people are forced into playing together... I have a strong feeling, the people who've claimed they want more PvP will be some of the first to walk away.
"be carful what you wish for, you might just get it"
To sum up this video... Star Citizen lacks fully realized Game Loops which you'd think that CIG would have focused on but instead of doing that, they decided to focus on Developing SQ42.
Or, they decided to dedicate most of their devs into making beautiful ships. Then you got a nice looking ship, but there's nothing to do.
They were obligated to ship the single player game from the Gofundme then ship the PU alongside it.
And selling ships, Marketing team are the developers.
They focus on one thing only and that's creating more ships and re-doing old ships so they can continue to sell them to people to make money to fund 'development', rinse repeat. We're never getting fully realized gameplay loops as long as they need to make money to keep development going.
@@KarnageKollectiblesthe game is barely functional with fifty players per server, so what they’ve been working on for nine years was server meshing so that you can have over a thousand people per server. So yes, they’re selling ships to keep the money coming in for server meshing. If that’s a success not only will you see twenty times more players, but the “obvious” game loops will last long enough to be completed (without crashing). I bought a vulture in game last week and went on 11 runs, and I could only complete 3 of them because of the game glitching out.
I think one of the biggest issues is that SC wants to cater to too many different audiences. It wants to cater to miners who just wanna chill, listen to music, and make money. It also wants to cater to cargo haulers, bounty hunters, PVP, PVE, role play, multi-crew, and about a dozen other different play styles. They want to give players who want to be safe from pirates a way to do so, but they also want to give pirates a way to pirate, and those two polar opposites don't make sense, because then a player just doing trading has to CHOOSE to be more vulnerable to pirates by not using the methods CIG implemented for players to avoid pirates. You can't do absolutely everything at once and appeal to absolutely all players all at once, and that is the core issue.
He'll come crawling back. They always do...
This dude doesn´t realize that most MMO players play solo (most of the time) and pve, also traders, miners and salvagers have goten wiser to avoid pirate encounters ;)
Edit: also from the looks of his desktop, it looks like this dude mostly plays some fast pased competitive shooters, nothing to do with star citizen, well maybe in arena commander you can get some of those types of gameplay. But i hope everyone get their favourite gampley loop
he did play pubg, which is the fastest pace of a slow pace genre of survivals, like rust, arma, ark and dayz, the millenial prequel of fortnite xd
DIDNT HE QUIT STAR CITIZEN 5 TIMES ALREADY?!
Pyro jump gate camping will bring about armistice (and should) because they spent years developing these assets and if it is abused that hard then nobody will go anymore. It is other MMO‘s that have major jump points like that put in safeguards around that stuff so they can propagate the area with players..
Yes because the peaceful players only exist top be pirated, they dont get to play the game
Nobody said any of that
One day, all the Pvpers will realize CIG is doing this on purpose.
„After Server Meshing and after a lot of work after Server Meshing…“
Exactly that is the time I’m considering to come back to this game🤷♂️
Why the heck does anybody think the pirating route is valuable when you have a max 100 people on a server I mean it's silly cuz everybody else is spread out doing their own thing cuz they're just got trying to play for an hour or two and they don't have 8 hours to sit around and wait for something when there's 10,000 people on a server maybe then they're going to get lucky around any trade port but that's what they're choosing also just like I might choose to just go in a cave in mind for 2 hours or do a rock mining or maybe some trading of anything but their choice is to wait around for pirating it's not anybody's fault that they don't happen to have somebody coming to that particular trade port and if I didn't want to be pirated maybe I choose to not go and go to that fancy trade port where I know all the pirates are going to be sitting out there waiting to kill me and take my s*** so no I'll go into a less traveled one so I can enjoy my game time I don't care about the pirates if the pirates want to live that life it's a life of long-term boredom potentially so be it have fun I hope they enjoy doing it doesn't mean the game has to accommodate that at the expense of everyone else so I don't want him to make pirating easier for them they should have patience or they should go get another job and then only pirate when they feel like it
My only problem with summit playing games in alpha or beta is he treats them like they are finished games. He will yell about things not working completely perfect. I also think he thought tucking in Star Citizen was going to be as easy as it is in the much smaller game Sea of Thieves.
CIG needs to introduce NPC convoys to the verse (tier 1). Let these convoys move between planets with various skill levels. They don’t have to be linked to the economy initially nor do they need to have a ton of cargo on them. Just something to test out the mechanic. Space ships and ground vehicle convoys I’m talking.
This narcissist thinks that miners and cargo runners should want pirates to nullify their last 8 hours of investment so that he can spend 39 minutes stealing from them? And then he calls that interacting with other players?
I dont understand why I would ever do those jobs if you have a 25% chance to lose all your investment and have wasted your time. This is a PvE game. It always has been. There is the possibility of PvP, but its not a PvP game
Summit got better in a few weeks than saltemike achieved in years 😂
Everything that Summit said was completely based. Good on him for sticking with it as long as he did
On the issue of pirating, it shouldn't be easy, and idiots should be the victims of it the majority of time ... and if you want to nab the smarter players, then think smarter yourself. Last thing, in just the last 2 days I saw plenty of pirating being streamed. The guy is a bit of a hype jock.
"Who told him the content was there?" --- I've been hearing this one same line from the copium addicts since 2015: "The game already gives us so much content for our money, we would be happy if development stopped today."
A good way to get people transporting goods on a regular basis. Keep rare ore price the same. Increase the cost to process it dramatically. Still have places that are cheaper to process certain ore. Have it like half the cost so you are way more likely to take it to the certain place. Increase the price for processed Ore and the place to sell it on the opposite side of the system from where it's cheap. Example if you process it at most expensive and sell at cheapest make it so you would make as much as selling the ore. Process at best and sell at worst make just ok amount maybe double ore price. Process at cheapest and sell at highest make 6 times ore cost. Not sure the exact numbers but I hope you all get it.
You could dramatically increase the price and make it so you get less ore from each rock so a prospector might have to mine 3 spots to fill up.
Something wrong with people who only pirate. Just the same in real life.
The reward of Jumptown could be Reputation with some Org. Should be a recurrent mission, a mixed PVPE mission granted by opposing NPC factions/Orgs so Players have to confront themselves on behalf of these Orgs. That's a good motivation for Players to go there.
24:20
Pyro... if they do what they say they are going to do... will make it the PVP area that all the PVP'ers SAY they want.
Do they really want a place with no armistice zones? Hard to say. But what I can say is that I really do hope SC delivers on that. Even if it is short lived. I really do think it is an experiment they do need to have.
Allow players to actually be such $#!+bags to everyone that even the outlaw gangs start shooting at you.
If that ISN'T the result of rep in pyro then CIG can rest assured that the Orgs themselves will take matters into their own hands and simply start KOS lists and take over entire servers.
Then it will be up to CIG to design server meshing in such a way that regions can't be monopolized.
But in the current plan, I don't think there will be many, if any, actual armistice zones in Pyro. And that will lead to mandatory PVP.
Dude just wants to be able to do sea of thieves in space
comm array should give player locations if hacked maybe
and it should send a player a ping that the comm array have accesed location
then pirrate could decide where or who they want on that planet and the player on the planet have a decision of going home or staying
The tier 2 server meshing, dynamic server meshing, really is the key though. That's the point at which there is only one server that is ghost hollow, and every player who goes to ghost hollow gets dynamically shifted to that one ghost hollow server, in the event that maybe more then 200 people go to ghost hollow at one time then a second ghost hollow server has to get spun up, but you know what the people on that first server and going to be having a hell of a time.
He has hit the point where he has realized he either has to make the content to play in the game (make your own fun), or wait a few years for it to come out from CIG. It's the SC Singularity. His streams were amazing for sure though.
I think meshing could have different instances of high population areas but combine moons into one instance that everyone that is there is in. Early iterations of meshing, IMO, could make it so that everyone that is outside of cities/meetups is in the same instance.
The roads to high value comodities should be the dangerous paths, not the routes to a trade hub. Realistically, a trade hub's highest routes would be the highest protected things apart from the hub itself.
Watched him play Sea of thieves today.
He did say he liked Star Citizen, but it needs more gameplay.
Which isn't exactly breaking any minds.
Trying to find ways to funnel PvE players into fights with PvP players is a good way to get PvE players to quit the game and never come back, and it's already difficult enough for PvP players to find people to pirate in the first place. It's not even putting a bandaid on a bullet wound so much as trying to cover up a bullet wound by shooting it several more time hoping the extra lead will stop the bleeding.
If CIG actually follows lore with the Aaron Halo belt gateways, we will get an informal trade route. Hopefully will see it when jump gates are in. Since that us essentially what they are.
So basically Summit rants because he is not able to easily ruin other player's game. Too bad. Like CIG stated, it is a PVE game, where PVP can occur.
If you were to camp that station. If it's that far out it means the bonus is based off distance from other areas and if you have multiple players youcan close on that area and cut off all travel routes.
As far as piracy goes, this is why having functional AI will be critical as the space is so large you need it to work to fill the space because players should be smeared out early on. He said he wanted a 9 to 1 ratio of artificial intelligence to human players.
We are not even supposed to the difference between the two so you cannot purposely target human players that can lead to eventual trolling
Scanning, Exploration, and Data need to be implemented in a big way for piracy to actually work.
"explorer" pirates will go out and find large mining operations, sell or provide the data to orgs or individual pirates, who can then do their pvp thing.
This is why ships like the terrapin exist - effectively stealth recon.
Complaining about it now is almost as dumb as complaining that the Science loop doesn't feel good because all we can do is "scan" for research purposes in a couple contracts.
EDIT: Later in the video you're discussing PVP opportunities in Pyro - It's entirely possible that people who are associated with a particular faction will get rep for killing players of another faction.
If early days WoW showed us anything it's that all people need is a place to fight and a ladder to climb and that's it. PvP will happen if CIG implements faction associated PvP.
PvP needs its own loop, pit missions out where you’re expected to encounter other people who are willing to PvP.
They just need a high risk, high reward, low security zone to attract traders and miners for the pirate guys to have fun with.
@19:00 I feel attacked as I watch this playing riftbreaker and strip-mining an entire planet and running out of room to silo millions of units of resources...
Oh my, a variety streamer changes game, who knew this would happen!
I'd love nothing more than SC in single player.
I hate it's an MMO, but what else are we gonna do? Starfield? Yeah right. Elite? Elite sucks and isn't anything like SC. Show me a single player game where you can mine, salvage, cargo haul, get out and walk around, etc with the level of detail that SC is and I'll go play that.
I won't hold my breath though. I hate this "gO pLaY sOmEtHiNg eLsE" argument because there *isn't* anything else.
you know how you easily find pvp?
make a quantum snare between two planets
His opinion is fine and true from an outsider looking into SC as a game and be puzzled a bit. SaltEMike really understands what SC has to do to become the MMO of space sims. It has to be filled with players and running into each others. You have to get the tools to scan and find signals of things you want to do in your favorite gameplay routes. A bounter hunter needs a way to hunt, shocking right? Camping with 100 players doesn't make sense.
Anyone who bashes a game in Alpha has zero ground to stand on, also pledging to Star Citizen is to show your support for gaming and the tech required to go into it.
I don't think there's many of us that expected him to put in this much time into the game anyway. I thought he was going to end it after two or three days. I'm a big fan of this project, and a backer since day one, but his concerns are of course valid (especially for him as a streamer who's dependent on PvP encounters to make sandbox content).
Eve has a very well established risk reward system. Until there is critical mass in SC servers there is very little risk reward game loops
This is why 1.0.0 launch CANNOT be multiple servers/shards/whatever.. or glorified 500-1000 player PU’s we have now. People will just jump servers to avoid content. It has to be one universe like Eve, and it has to be much more than 5 systems for everyone to saturate and be able to fight over.
If they launch with a glorified PU system like it has now, it will fail miserably with no hope of redemption, ever.
46:15 YES! Let us mine/salvage in peace and not require an escort until we are ready to go back to the station. Then we can call in our buddy, who's been doing ship bounties or whatever, and he comes with us. Perfect. Everyone has something to do, and the escorts aren't sitting around super bored 90% of the time.
Dudes got a point. There isnt much to do atm in the game from a streamers perspective. His audience wants murder and mayhem, his viewership grows with salty messages from his victims, they want the PVP. But the game doesn't do much to facilitate that, so without a large org that can host events (Which isnt the kind of pvp that most viewers want to see), there isnt much in the game that facilitates aggressive play.
However, part of his problem is that he is PURELY a pvp player. He's not terribly interested in pve, and as the Devs have confirmed, Star Citizen is NOT a pvp game. Its a pve game with pvp elements, which is different. If you engage a pve game that allows pvp from the perspective of pvp only, you are losing out on the majority of the game. And he DOES approach these games (like Sea of Thieves) from the perspective of pvp only. He's even gone so far as to actively target and criticize players that try to avoid pvp in these games.
The other problem is assuming he could milk SC for content as a streamer when its in development and hasn't actually fleshed out the gameplay beyond surface level engagement.
Mike doesn't seem to understand EvE... It doesn't have have 'Highways' for cargo... it's the opposite. Eve is all about creativity in hauling cargo - not making it Simple Button dumb for pirates to gank you. In Eve we have Jump Freighters which can actually bypass jump gates. We have covert ships that are immune to warp scramblers. We have cloaking ships that don't show up on radar or visually. Eve is a master class in game theory.
One of the defining things in EVE is the fact players find ways to break 'rules' such as: killing players in High Sec space, outside stations or gates. But, like you said SaltE: EVE players are all on one server and until SC gets onto one, unified server the numbers will not be there for slating PvP thirst.
Someone should have told him, "It's Alpha"
There is a ton of people on either side of the PVE or PVP curtain. We are all for PVPVE servers. However if they force trade lanes, we believe it would really push the pure PVE players over the edge as being able to jump random is the only loop chance they have, and we need them to keep the verse alive.
We PVP some weekends and its not impossible to find people, it does take some time to find them though, feels like they want insta gratification BF COD ability to find players to get the PVP gratification
Forcing everyone who doesn't want to pvp into pvp is a dead game. When they leave, there are only the pirates left.
If we had AI that was more functional than a bag of hammers he might have npc ships to pirate. I wonder if pirates would be happy with npc ships to pirate.
Im sorry but pirates should have to actually work and put effort into pirating, not simply camping at places and complaining they don't see anyone. Pirates should be setting up interdiction fields along well known QT routes and then hope its not a ship (or two) they can't take on. Then again i don't play this for the PvP so I really cannot sympathize. Its summits own fault he's sitting around bored, not CiG. The content is there, I cleared a Kopian den cave on Hurston and had a blast doing it...those caves are huge then went and did VHRT's and borded the ships for their cargo and loaded it onto my Connie and sold it. I haven't even been into a Distribution center yet. The content is what you make it, CIG gives us a huge sandbox to literally use our imagination in.
well.. he was warned repeatedly this wasn't a game yet, and his attitude was: "you have to work for the content"... lol
"no one does that" what? the absolutely most basic day one cargo hauler lesson? No, i cant be the only hauler who prefers not to get hit....
he has a point with catching ppl, if you played eve, you know you never JUST warp to the next gate, but i agree with you, with 100 player servers you just don't have enough traders moving on a certain route
Concerning the Freelancer argument: I am not sure if it maybe is an artistic license problem. And I sooo agree with you there Mike! That would solve so many problems. We still were able to quantum away from the Tradelanes and find our own ways... It really is kind of a no brainer... But it would not be 6Ds of freedom... probably. They probably hope to have the Jumproutes all going approximately through the same spots. Maybe thats why they wanted to put that big ass Tollstation between Arc Corp and Hurston. A place where everyone has to come through...
He will be back one day when his grandkids tell him the game is 90% complete.
As an Eve player Star Citizen is a very strange experience.
I´ve tried it on and off for the past 5 years, proud owner of an Avenger Titan.
The first thing that became apparent in SC for me was how empty and devoid of purpose it is. EVE is a point and click game, but the ammount of gameplay, things to explore and Org. Gameplay (Corporations/Alliances ) is huge to a point, where you dont play the game, you log in to the world and live it, you just choose how.
Star Citizen on the other hand is breath taking beautiful game, that immerses you where ever you look and gives you zero purpose to be in it.
One could use the its "still a tech demo" to excuse for it, however the total silence about what the game will have or not as gameplay, for me, shatters that argument.
If in ten years you still cant commint to say what the gameplay really is, then im gonna assume that you dont know.
What makes people play EVE for ever is really because its a game that gives you purpose, and that shit is powerful. Havent played a game that comes even close to it in that regard, nor am i demanding that level in SC.
In EVE i´ve been a miner, Hauler, Tackle pilot, Sub. Cap. pilot, Capital pilot, Scanner (my favorite), Gate Camper, Pirate, Fleet Commander , i´ve been in Npc faction wars, massive alliances Null sec wars, you name it over the last 10 years... All in a massive social framework.
Outside of combat in Star Citizen after ten years... you carry boxes.
Sorry let me correct it, you STILL carry boxes.
Everyone is asking where is exploration gameplay, the manufacturing gameplay, org. Stuff... etc.
I just want to know WHAT is going to be that gameplay, and the fact the answer is still BOXES......
PS, EVE Tip for that low sec mining! . EVE is about Situational awareness, have your ship pre-aligned to a warp point, Keep spamming the scanner, have safespots scatterd in the sys, see whos is in local and look at their Killboards, look at EVE MAP before entering a SYSTEM see how many ships have been detroyed last hour, the list could go on.
But the best one is try not to fly alone! :P
At this point i think to CIG the crashing and wasted time is considered gameplay. Spending an hour loading up a ship only to have the server crash , two times just today… i did one salvage mission all day and that ended in a crash… lost ships, forced to file claims and wait 3-20 minutes… im so fuking annoyed with this game while at the same time wanting to enjoy it
This games a fkn carnival and we are all the clowns.... 🤡
Literally carnival guests come in get food poisoning and leave to never come back but they paid so who cares
I think the root of most of the "non-consensual pvp" as people like to call it is a lack of consequence for those actions. In Eve Online you can be attacked anywhere; but it comes at a price. If you want to try to blow up my ship as I leave the main trade hub in the whole game, you better bring the guns to do it. You only have 4 seconds before the cops warp in, target lock everyone in range (involved or not), and alpha the aggressor off the field. If you killed me before they killed you, you can come back and scoop the loot or have a friend do it for you. Ultimately, you decide whether the cost of the ships you used to kill me, was worth what I drop as loot; cuz you're losing that ship. There are real consequences in Eve. In SC, you just kill then go hack and everything is peachy.
Because of this system, star gates between systems are heavily camped. Pirates scan ships as they come through the gate and then determine whether to shoot, or wait for the next. Its not just a murder hobo rampage, its much more strategic. This would however require more than 1 system in SC though, which is another problem adding to this.
If the thought of the police fucking your shit up is not to your liking, there should be systems where the police won't come save you. Then, the onus of responsibility falls on the person who goes out there and not on those who wish to pirate. SC has to make it profitable for people to go to those systems with little to no Advocacy presence, otherwise the pirates will be in the same situation Summit is complaining about. There must be risk and reward BOTH WAYS not just for the law abiding and not just for the lawless.
IMO money is plentiful enough that with the addition of server meshing, a player services system should be added to protect money and cargo haulers for a % of the cargo sale. Everything should have risk, but if you're making 8mil UEC off a run, you should have to pay a couple of people to protect you.
Same old arguments (which are all founded in truth) with the same old results, server meshing and quantum (no static economy and probability volumes)
What happened to security post koreah, wasn't that supposed to be a funnel for PvP?
Yep...its there but again they dont support the GAME part, they just keep building tech and the oppourtunity to start doing something...but never do anything.
@@saltemikereacts I agree, all I'm thinking is they've got the mechanics and most likely understand the brief, perhaps they just need someone creative or to take a couple of risks
Haven't been playing this game since 2021, just returned to try this out again. It's kind of funny that every complain I hear now is EXACTLY the same I heard in 2021. I mean, we're still waiting on Pyro and server meshing, holy f
Can't wait to see rep system with virtual npc, there will be less random pirates, but more professional pirates.
Starfield PvP comment was funny, But, I find players. Even when I don't want to, I find players.
Summit's honeymoon period must be over.