Did you ever hear the tragedy of Price Gougeis the Greedy? I thought not… it’s not a story Gaben would tell you, it’s a sith legend. Price Gougeis was a business man, so covetous and so miserly, he could sell anyone anything. The only thing he feared was losing his money, which eventually, of course, he did. He raised the prices too much, then his customers stopped buying his games. Ironic, he could sell anything, but not at any price.
Great point about the pricing bell curve. To add to this. The CA perspective is likely that even if they lose 50% of their sales on this DLC, they will still make more money with the 2.5x price increase than if they had kept it at $10. 100 sales at $10 is $1000, 50 sales at $25 is $1250
Great point from a money stand point, however how it comes across is that they don’t care if their fans like or get to experience there content, they are just locking it off from so many people just for the sake of siphoning more money which makes their fans feel bad about it. Even the people with the money can’t be satisfied from the dozens of bugs and half finished content in these recents dlcs, love your content btw
@@onappap Well as said in the preface of the video, what we see is the sales department effect. You can be sure those in customer satisfaction are grumbling, maybe even more than most players. Companies like this are a maze of group and personal interests. What companies as a whole do is try to find that sweetspot between reputation for further sales, and cash-flow in current ones. You could see them slightly backtrack in a couple years to reaquire some good will from the player base, at which point the power will be in the customer service department, and then go back in again with a money focus a bit later, giving the reins again to sales. It's always shifting back and forth to a slight degree.
Something everyone seem to have missed too is why CA hard stopped making race DLC after the Vampire Coast DLC (outside of the mandatory Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs) when they could (and should) have pumped out 1 or 2 more races DLC for TWW2 (mainly Araby and Amazons, which could have occupied the center of TWW2 map) and why they will never do another race DLC from now on: Making a race DLC cost them a lot, LOT more than making a lord pack, but will at best bring them the same amount of money than said lord pack (if that, a lot of people end up skipping race packs but will take lord packs because they add units to the races they already play). This is the exact same reasoning that is now making them crank up the price of DLC: spend the minimum and price it the maximum.
I doubt that CA doesn’t care at all about number of sales. Even if they jack up prices that only is patchwork. If you have 1000x10 sales, then that goes to a 500x20 sales, that trend is more likely to keep going down in future instalments unless the 20 dollar DLC is more than worth the money. Less saturation mean people are less interested in the product. If you go to a forum and the only post you see are people saying they skipped a DLC then very few would buy it regardless. When the good will runs out then you have to make a better product with a more than fair value to have any chance in making your money back.
The business school term for what you were talking about price levels is “price discrimination”. Like you said, it’s about trying to sell to every customer possible by selling to them at the highest price they’re willing to pay.
@@t4stingo yeah, yeah, nothing wrong with stealing from rich corporations right? Honestly stupid unless your broke and work yet you can’t experience the videogame any other way.
Something weird is going on at CA. In the recent video they put out about the Changeling, they mention preordering the DLC three times. I've never seen that happen in any of CA's previous DLC walkthrough videos. There must be new management at CA or Sega.
they might want to push their deal with GW to either make a TW with 40k or Age of Sigmar or to include other content into this game. Warhammer 3 still makes money and they don't have much more warhammer fantasy content to create new DLC from.
@@blodstainer I was thinking about this and, given all they're creating with Kislev and Cathay, I could honestly see them looking into potential new daemons/chaos units. Now they've definitely got realestate to include further specialized marauders and beastmen into the chaos factions but I'd love to see them create further units and even new daemons with GW. With the combination of Old World, AoS, 40K, and Horus Heresy, you'd have such a massive market for new daemons, especially given how old a lot of the sculpts are
Definitely! There are so many games I have yet to play or finish... Cyberpunk, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Jagged Alliance 3, X4 newest DLC, finish jedi fallen order and play second one, . . . I could NEVER play Warhammer again and still have a maxed gaming "calendar"... Never mind my other hobbies like motorcycles, paragliding and so on...
@@Jagrofeswhen it comes to pricing, Legend has always had level headed takes with his DLC reviews. Giving his honest opinion on value. One of my favorite things about his channel
This happened recently with War Thunder. They kept price gauging, and ignoring player feedback to the point they have lost all the good will they had. Fortunately, they realized they are destroying their business, and turned around, put up feedback poll, for people to write whatever, collected everything they could, and put up a road map to gett their game back on track, and so far, for the last 2 months, they are sticking to their plan, with outstanding results from the playerbase and in sales.
2 steps forward, one step back approach. They will just wait and drip feed more monetization practices to boil the frog that is the vast majority of their playerbase. Look what happened to Call of Duty and Battlefront.
Funny thing is free to play players don't like that. If free to play players leave your pay to win players follow eventually. They are just killing the game slowly. I remember thinking about joining back war thunder, then i realised what they changed and decided to stay away. Same happen with some of my friends. I used to recomend that game a lot. Not anymore
The same won't happen to Total War, CA has been overpricing its DLCs for years now and people simply keep on buying whatever they sell, so they'll just keep doing this and the crying and moaning from Total War players will die in a few weeks, if not days.
@@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou Honestly i can see him enjoying a little of that good old barrel-mancing and cheese whole encounters. The things you can pull off in that game are hilarious.
You know, listening to this reminded me of TotalBiscuit. He left a huge hole in critical gaming analysis, and I'm glad that you have and are willing to share the same level of critique and sensibility regarding this corner of the industry. Thanks Legend
@@GoldSpangledBananaBoyI think as much as he was that, his abrasiveness was better directed than the gaming community as a whole can manage. He knew enough about the industry to understand when and where things could be changed through advocacy. Sometimes things will upset gamers even if it's not something that a company can't be faulted for. TB was good at acknowledging when that was true and good at calling out when it was bullshit. It made it a lot easier for the community as a whole to direct their anger towards things that could be changed. I think TB deserves a lot of credit for raising the standards for PC ports. Without a figure like that, it feels like the gaming community has a lot of anger but really doesn't have a good way to put that anger to use.
TB said something and it holds true today: "Please, and I'm not telling you what to do w/ your money, but please. Don't preorder video games." He is gone but his wisdom lives on.
Yes, got those vibes as well. The industry isn't the same without him, but makes me really happy to see those occasional people that still hold his ideology
R.I.P it felt especially bad when people were celebrating his death and learning that people you called associates and friends were doing It to the point it makes your political awakening of the fact that good politics ≠ good person. A few respectable people actually apologized and explained why it was wrong to even remotely compare him to someone as evil as fucking Margret Thatcher. Honestly I learned to choose proper friend groups from that experience and TotalBiscuit actually made me a better person.
I agree with you 100% on the "good will" point in the video. It seems to be a trend these days that bigger companies every now and then just decide to cash out on the good will that they have gained and it's actually really annoying. Sure it's good for the profits short term, sometimes even long term. But Baldurs Gate is a great example of what can happen when a company respects customers. Me and six of my friends bought the game simply because we all heard so many good things about it. None of us would have bought it, no matter how much marketing was behind it, but when people whos opinions we value say good things about something, we believe them. I will not be buying any more Total War games or DLC on day one, only when they are on sale and the base game is in a much better state. I've bought every single DLC and Total War game for the past 8 years on day 1. I know I'm just one person, but I have friends who've said the same and I haven't heard anyone say one good thing about CA or Total War games for years and I work in the industry. Their good will is running on fumes at this point, I'm waiting to see what their response is once that well is dry.
Exactly why so many publishers want Larian right now, their good will, to use it to cash in on short term profit. Look at Blizzard as another example that's been cashing in on their good will and nostagia for over a decade now, and it still works despite it's been going over the edge multiple times and losing tons of fans for exploiting their willingness to consume their products they love. It's really sad that when greed takes over, all they see is consumers willing to spend more money than usual based on trust and attachment to a company for previous deeds or any form of attachment needs, rather than feeling like they should continue working on that trust and not take advantage of it.
@@prinstyrio0 I do not think at all, that with Blizzard it is working. They simply switched from a large player base to a small pool filled with whales. I think many of the WoW players are also just a bit addicted at this point, some of them seriously cannot put down the game, even though Blizz is for sure trying everything to do the opposite. Hearthstone is the only Blizzard game, that I would say has good quality besides WoW: Classic (which is pretty much the past work of Blizz, not a new product, although I heard the dragon expansion is good).
A thing you have to understand is that the gaming industry is simply too big at this point. It does not matter if some of the few who actually pay attention start talking about how they're not buying from x and how they're absolutely doomed. Diablo 4 came out and made a fucking load of money in sales despite blizzard, for months and months and even years at this point failing as a company, relentlessly pissing people off and acting purely and utterly on a profit-over-everything mindset. Why? Because there's a gigantic consumer base of people who 1. do not value their own money because they have too much 2. simply do not give a shit and would buy a game from literallyhitler®if it means they can consoom something for a few hours and move on to the next thing 3. people outside of the, all things considered, small bubble of the internet that is people actually deep enough into the hobby to pay attention in the first place and 4. a new generation of kids who dont know or care about anything and simply buy whatever looks cool to them You can argue that total war is a more niche thing and can lose customers more easily until it's really in trouble, but there's a lot of people who famously do not have object permanence and WILL forget about any and all drama the moment it leaves their focus unless reminded of it. Unless they have such a colossal series of fuck ups in a relative short amount of time it won't matter.
It is a positive feedback loop, or a slippery slope. Once a company establishes that they can disrespect their customers, they will try to take as much ground as possible. They will reach a point where they must apologise and change, or go out of business with no further damage caused. At least that can happen, the IR-A-S, not so much
@@Inventor2yeah but your paying for a faction it would make sense that they'd have similar abilities that's the point that's like telling someone all skaven factions are the same because they have food and undercities stupid point
nowhere near everything new. every campaign mechanic was reskin of existing mechanics , like caravans and slaves and using "a resource" to rush building . and units too ,only a few are actually new units. it is not bad dlc but it sure was overpriced for amount of work they did (NOT) put into it .
Such a shame CA doesn’t work with modders and community of historical titles even though there are great projects like DEI and upcoming Age of Bronze campaign which are doing better job than official devs. And it’s not me having nostalgia 'bout "good old days", it’s them missing profit from exclusion of new players and not listening to feedback from current historical player base. CA is a big company nowadays and really has resources to implement cooperation with community and rewards for cool fan projects. Thanks for this explanation, Legend.
frrrrrrrr, DEI is the only thing that has made me sink months and months into a single campaign and the modders are so helpful! asked many questions in the past and theyve always been providing links and fixes as well as information on what they plan to do next. wish they could make their own spin off lol
@@eternallyscreaming169, I’ve even heard that mod developer had to buy multiple copies of the game because of problems with mod implementation or smth though it may be an exaggeration.
I live in the U.K. and don’t have a lot of disposable cash because I’m poor. I live in Cardiff with my partner and everything is going up in price and everything is extortionate (my flat is about £900 a month and was the ONLY ONE which didn’t have ungodly amounts of mould, cracks or water marks and bulges in it which landlords and estates agents say ‘it’s not black mould so it’s not a health risk it’s fine’ and these were ONLY £5 less a month) and I’ve just had to leave my minimum wage job to luckily find another with even a few more hours and this is getting common. (I have a degree and plenty of qualifications it’s just there is nothing available work wise and I’ve worked retail, warehouse work, district council contract management, software companies etc.) I know another store in the company I’m with lost 6 people last week because money but the problem is in the U.K. at least everything is going up in price and people just allow it. I was somewhat defending the price yesterday as I view it from the average dev position who I know is underpaid and over worked but sleeping on it I realised that allowing this to happen is literally what’s causing all the issues in the U.K. that impacts those I was looking to defend and allowing people to starve. It’s unacceptable and we need to do something but obviously the ones who can choose a DLC over a meal can’t comprehend it. I hope the outrage caused by this might actually make an impact as even sotek is speaking out about it who is normally positive like myself. (Sorry this is a rambling mess I’m very tired and about to go to work, I hope you get my point the situation is just tiring and upsetting, you can barely afford minimal leisure time nowadays unless you’re working 50+ hours or earning £30k+) People must not be ashamed about being poor, we’re poor because stuff like this happens and we’re too scared to admit we’re struggling. We’re poor because companies exploit us NOT because you’re lazy or haven’t worked hard and your voice needs to be heard and don’t let those who tell your otherwise belittle or demean you the world was built on the backs of us and it’s about time we realised that. Again sorry about the rambling mess I hope this and the million edits I made make sense.
@@charlesman8722yeah if you’re poor the last thing you need to complain about is the dlc price of a video game when you can’t afford a place that isn’t trash when you’re supposedly splitting it with a, partner? I guess wife or w/e
Yeah, well, this whole idea of poor people are lazy is probably at the top of the idiocy by idiotic excuses for human beings, and I really pity whoever thinks saying this makes any kind of sense. That said, I still think that this rage about the price is a bit premature, since we still haven't seen everything that it's going to offer.
Great Video but slight disagreement on one point: If everyone in both armies is 10% slower it advantages the ranged units because they have more time to shoot. Every change even if equally applied will help specific unit types.
Yeah, I disagree with this point too. Also, heavily armored units will struggle if it’s rainy due to their weight and muddy areas which gives lighter troops an advantage. The mud will also effect chariots. So army build variety will be important. Regional recruitment is going to play a heavy role too. Egyptians will do fine in the desert but the Hittites will struggle being that their troops are heavily armored.
Yep, also delays concentrating spread out forces can be significant. Still last LoTW videos I watched he just showed cheesy cavalry tactics and couldn't be bothered to use pre-Marian reform Roman units calling them garbage despite the fact that they could be used effectively, if coordinated by maneuvering in battle.
I grew up on Medieval 2 and I loved the game to death, when I got older and was able to get back into the newer entries of the series, getting Shogun 2 and then working backwards to Empire and Napoleon. All games that I had a lot of fun with (Though Empire was painfully jank more often than not), then I saw Rome 2 happen and how people received it, and I stepped back. I was watching the series for a while, but it seemed to be going down a path away from the older games that between quality issues changes in the games fundamentally that left me alienated. I got Warhammer when it came out but I realized that the fantasy total war games just weren't going to be something I could enjoy, so I went back to just idly watching Total War as it went on. It's been sad watching it progress and get worse both content wise and money farming wise. Nowadays I just hope someone can make a game similar enough that CA feels like they have real direct competition, and that either they'll get their act together or be superseded by someone else. Or perhaps the even more unrealistic option that people avoid their products so much they're forced to change how they operate.
@@williamchristy9463 I couldn't really enjoy the way the gameplay in Warhammer felt, it's hard to put into words exactly, at least in a concise manner without going back and playing it again but it just didn't feel good to me. I'm one of the old TW fans that just can't follow the series into its new form ig. That and though the base game has a decent amount of factions and units, I can't say I was much a fan of the DLC cycle even when it was more substantial for less than what they're trying to pull now
Legend, I feel like there's also the issue of apathy cost. Which is basically that the longer it stays at that higher price, the less people are going to care enough to buy it when it eventually does go on sale. Most individual players are only really interested in one Lord or faction in a given pack. If they are priced out for 6 months to a year, then that's plenty of time for that interest to dull and fade and be replaced with apathy. Cause people aren't gonna just sit still and wait for a sale, they're going to play other games, and the games that they're playing are the ones that they'll buy content for, not games they haven't touched in a year cause it's become too expensive. They might revisit it much later if things are on sale for like 80% but not in the near term.
My grandfather would always say, "If you wait long enough you won't want it anymore", which is very apt here. When the Chaos Dwarfs DLC came out I was really busy with life, so couldn't play it and thus didn't buy it. It has since gone on sale, but I no longer feel excited to play it, so have still not bought it, despite having the time to play it. Now I have moved onto other games. I suspect that I will also skip this new DLC for the foreseeable too, as even with a 50% sale it will not interest me in playing Warhammer 3 again with all of the bugs and issues the game still has.
6months down the line more review of the DLC have come about. If they are negative and the game is still fill with bugs then the incentive to come back to this game and invest into it is even less. also now people are excited to invest into this since its brand new and exciting, so if they value this dlc at 15$ that excitement might make them want to overpay a bit to maybe 20$. but in 6months when this is no longer new, you might have a problem even in convincing them to pay that 15$ and will need to lower it down to 10$ to buy it. so you don't necessarily make money by this strategy.
real talk, I was considering buying all 3 total war warhammer games this christmas I might just not, considering how everyone that plays the game seems to agree the latest dlcs have been overpriced
Thats what im doing. At this point im waiting for the whole package including DLC to be around 40 bucks. If I have to wait 3 years for a G2A key fine, but im definitely not paying these insane prices. Would rather play another game/support less egregious devs. This monetization is becoming intense and it wouldnt surprise me if this new era is only in its infancy. Could easily see them start selling unit skins or even individual RoR's for 99 cents.
For me, when I bought the Chaos Dwarves, whilst the price for that was steeper than what DLCs were before I felt it was ultimately worth it because I was having fun with a brand new race with all new units and mechanics and also at that time there was no other game out there that was keeping me occupied. The difference here is that its a lord pack for existing races, I will have to see what changes these races are going to receive, how their unique mechanics will play (and these arent necessarily fun mechanics, Nakai and Markus proved that for WH2) and how much impact the new units are. But the other main difference is now I do have other games to keep me busy. I am having a blast with Baldur's Gate 3 and very soon Starfield will come out. Its far easier a decision this time round for me to skip this lord pack until later when there is a sale or something.
I'm the exact same. I love the chorfs and for a whole new roster it felt worth it. Now with Baldurs gate and starfield I'll probably just skip on warhammer 3 for a while
Same, no WH3 DLC till my main launch gripes with WH3 are fixed, and they still aren't. Happy to watch Legend from time to time & follow the game, but nah man, there's more games being made every year. Hooded Horse publisher makes a lot of titles to scratch that strategy itch.
Same. I bought full DLC for WH2, but not a single one for WH3. Surely CA is not "immoral" to increas price, but I have my own justice and I simply vote by not buying these DLC and not play WH3. Plus, there is a new FromSoftware game on the horizon this month with a honest price. People like me don't complain about the greed, they simply walk away.
i just dont get it man. i got into wh2 like 6 months before wh3, ive been playing wh3 for hundreds of hours and love it! what is the problem? i just havent seen any yet
As much as I hate to say it warhammer 3 is so damn good now especially the chaos DLC. I hate rewarding a sucky company and I NEVER preorder but the DLCs have been quite good.
I always love when legend takes on the broader issue in this very niche community I found myself in over the past five years. I bought Medieval two total war shogun two total war and empire, total war off of a sale one year, and then got into Warhammer two as Warhammer three was coming out, and it’s been nothing but tumultuous ever since. And I appreciate that legend is here contextualizing it.
As much as people like to focus in the Dollars and Euro pricing, they are so many other regional prices that got it waaay worse. In Argentina, this DLC already is HALF the price of the base game, and is more expensive than Chaos Dwarfs for some reason. In Reddit, I've seen so many other countries like Turkey and countries in Eastern Europe that got the same treatment.
The only thing worse than the regional pricing is the absolute geniuses in first world countries saying that the regional pricing is fine because "well thats only x$ USD, thats really cheap!". not understanding that different countries have completely different economies, average wages, costs of living etc.
@@luxie8097 thats a more complex problem than you think. If the pricing isnt Universal there are pepole who Will buy it in Argentine or turkey steam shop Just by using vpn.
For me, I think the issue is the fact that fact we’re getting the same amount of stuff for a lord pack for WH2, but split across 3 factions. Edit: Legend, you’re an amazing human being for explaining this stuff. Hopefully CA will listen to you.
It's the same amount of units per faction as The Queen and the Crone gave the High Elves (Alarielle, , Handmaiden Hero, Sisters of Avelorn, Shadow Warriors) and Dark Elves (Hellebron, Sorceress Lord, Sisters of Slaughter, Doomfire Warlocks, Kharybdiss). The Prophet and the Warlock added 13 new LLs, Lords and units, the same amount of units total, with the Lizardmen taking the majority. The price is still steep, I agree, but it's not any different from the WH2 Lord Packs.
@@Tzilandino it’s not, each faction gets 4 new units with one of them receiving a LH instead of a generic lord or hero. And this is before we find out if Tzaangors or any of the others have more variants
@@alfasolmega4458 If you like Skaven (or want to play them) the DLC lets you play as Ikit Claw, one of the best Skaven lords by a mile whose army specializes in weapon teams and artillery with unique ways to improve them. The other half is a Skink lizardmen lord which is also quite good but I think Ikit is the main selling point, you can easily find videos on Legend's channel of him using Ikit to see if it is something you want.
I think this price would be a lot more acceptable to me if it meant they were going to put more attention in to maintaining the game, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It looks like every time there is a DLC or an update that, while there will be bug fixes, there will be new bugs and a whole host of issues that we will just have to deal with until the next major DLC/update. It was the same with Warhammer 2 but at least they weren't charging this much.
100% agreed. I am only interested in the Cathay and Kislev lords from this pack, and even still I would be willing to pay this price if I saw that CA was actually working on fixing the bugs in the game rather than just adding new ones every time they add new content.
Its the worst for pvp players. Theyre already dont get basically anything, might not even buy the DLC - or forced to, to get access to the current, most busted units... either way, they WILL have to contend with the op/bugged units of XY patch for 4-6 months. Stuff like Grail Knights last patch completely ruined the meta, as did strong lords in the past like Grom or Taurox.
@@Pedro-zu3uq Is WH3 not running well? Last i played I could burn out about 15 turns before I could do 5 turns in WH2 cause it takes a week to run through turns in the old game cause it runs poorly
The thing I hate the most about CA DLC is that they are broken and OP when they are released, and then just before the next DLC comes out they are "re-balanced" into uselessness. I am just so done with it.
This kind of in fighting has always been in thing in almost every community, and it obviously solves nothing. As if lower prices would some how harm the ego of these people that protect anti consumer behavior but the best thing to do; and I have said it relentlessly, is to just not buy the product. If the product doesn't offer a good value don't buy it, mostly during the time it will be coming out, we will be only 30 days away from starfield if that's something you are interested in. You can always pick up the dlc later on sale.
@@lightworker2956 Well that's a separate discussion, even though it might some what correlate with the price hike, we just lack some info that would solely put this up to inflation. It's also a digital good, which inflation would only affect man hours and infrastructure, and we just lack this information.
that solves nothing tho did you not watch the video? they will get your money eventually when it goes on sale while also getting the money from the big spenders all according to plan
@@rodrikofharlaw6848 not reasonable, MORE reasonable THAN steam discussions. This conveys how terrible steam discussions are if you already think reddit is bad
Reddit got to much censorship, where steam leaves it more unfiltered. Hence the more toxicity. But I wouldn't trade that, for what people are truly feeling. I'd rather get the whole truth, no matter how toxic it is.
The thing about the total war series is that there is no real competitor for CA to be afraid of. CA knows that people will pay more because they need their fix of the genre.
Not true. People will just play the old games that are constantly on sale, they are self cannabilizing themselves into the dirt. It's working now, but how about 10 years from now when no one can afford video games or DLC because of going through a constant decline in the USD having a recession? It will destroy them eventually.
@@nicwolf1370 Paradox is as greedy as CA ...yeah I play Stellaris and CK3 , those DLCs prices can really be crazy. And not sure they even add more than those WH3 ones ...
I wish every community had a legend of total war. In the current state of the world we could all use a little more empathy. Video games are supposed to be fun, these communities are built around sharing fun and/or meaningful experiences with one another. Be kind to one another even when angry at a given situation.
My major annoyance is that the DLC covers 3 different races. I only play a couple of the races, and it helped on DLC because I could ignore the DLC that didn't cover the races I liked. They were already doing 2. From their perspective they are "increasing" the number of DLCs I would buy on top of making my pay more for each. From mine, they are reducing the percentage of the DLC I even want while increasing the price. Which Is why I wont be buying.
They've not beefed it up more, they give you only about 4 units per race, which may be overpowered but aren`t enough. it just doesn't seem interesting to me, and it isn't worth 35 dollars
You know what.. I'm actually super impressed with the reason and logic you applied here. I know you've had an extremely rough relationship with CA and it can be very stress inducing - but you've actually explained this in a really calm and smart way. Doesn't seem to be much bias or rage at all, just hitting the key points and peeling back the curtain. Personally, I'm not so bummed out by the price - I'm more upset at the lack of Hag Lore, lack of Generic Lord for Kislev, Generic Hero for Cathay, and lack of both for Tzeentch. Beyond that, I'm certain I'll still get my moneys worth from playtime. I would've just been nice if they'd matched the content per faction that previous DLC had hit.
They need to start selling lords individually because unlike a faction pack a lord pack will often include factions you aren't interested in playing. From this perspective lord packs are even worse value unless you are someone who plays every faction in the game.
@@obi-wan3916 Well to be fair they did alright so far. I didn't want Eltharion when I got Grom, but Eltharion actually made me play the high elves for the first time. Really cool guy.
This one does seem weird. It looks like a lot of cool stuff will be added but it seems like they had all the stuff being released just "laying around" so they took a shotgun approach which is not something they do very often. At least not with Warhammer. "Weird but ok" is my opinion so far.
You’re 100% correct on the good-will side of things. I only bought 3K on a heavy sale and honestly barely touched it since then. Never touched Troy, never will. Hell, I didn’t even know Pharaoh was in the making. That’s how little I care about CA’s new shit. I got Rome 2, am happy with that.
Legend, great video and really well said. I havent bought any CA stuff in over 2 years. Partly I don't have a lot of time, but also the mod communities are great. There are so many great mods which overhaul the game, e.g divide et impera, RTR imperium surrectum amongst others. I don't know the stats on mod Downloads, but would be great to see the profile of the modding communities raised ( appreciate this wouldbe a tough sell to CA, as it would reduce their profits. It's sad so many total war youtubers have disappeared from a few years ago. I love the franchise, and got into it from Time Commanders on the BBC in the UK, not long after RTW1 was released.
@@hohenzollern6025 WH3 recently got Nagash just so you know, if you already have everything for it I'd highly recommend, the modteam put a hell of a lot of work into it with a ton of new and improved mechanics, can't praise em enough
Watching CA pissing away their goodwill is like watching an drug-addicted family member piss away their life. You just want to shake them and say "why the hell are you making these terrible choices??" But you know it just won't make any difference.... They need to really get on top of the bugs among the other issues. Thanks Legend for this video tho!
I'd use another analogy. CA is the dealer and the customers are the junkies who keep throwing them money against their better judgement. Yeah they'll lose some of them but they've tapped into a core of addicts who will keep giving them money no matter what so they'll ride this to the end. By the time Total War Warhammer runs out of steam (which could be a long time coming) it'll be someone else's problem, they'll have made enough. The company is made of individuals after all not people who stay there forever.
Warhammer pretty much ruined the franchise. You have these donks willing to buy every dlc and CA knows they don't have to improve their engine. Either they have a brand new engine that's amazing in the pipeline or they know they're at the end of the line and are milking as much money as they can before the Total War name is killed off.
Whats funny is they dont see the short term gain, long term loss effect that will clearly take place here. Surely they may come out in the green in the end, but their respect and integrity have been tanking ever since Rome 2. They more than likely dont care anymore.
especially after warhammer 3 is just much weaker as a game then 2. The fix they promised for chaos and the 4 chaos factions also require a DLC even though they are the main part of a full price game
Well said, Legend. Thanks for giving an insight into the business aspect of the price hike, too, it's always interesting to see the behind-the-scenes of stuff like that. It's a real shame that CA decided to go this route with DLC for Warhammer, but hopefully enough people get sick of it in time that they can go back to the pricing models in WH2.
For the Chaos Dwarfs, I do somewhat understand the pricing, as we got a lot of content, more in my opinion, than any other previous DLC, so I believe that was justified. The same price for 3 legendary lords from existing races is wild. With the chaos dwarfs, we got 31 new units, an extensive system for the chaos dwarfs, and much more. With this new legendary lord pack, we are getting 11 new units, and legendary lords that will follow an system we already have, maybe slightly deviating from it. None the less, this is one of the worst priced DLCs from a content perspective, but I'm gonna have to see it in game before coming to a conclusion, definitely not pre-ordering it.
@@blaat44 Like I said, that maybe the case, we'll have to wait to see how it plays. The chaos dwarf lords do play differently, and even if they didn't, we still got around 3x the amount of units we're gonna get in the the shadows of change DLC
I'm curious how Chaos Dwarfs offered more content than ANY other dlc, considering Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast both have significantly more unique mechanics and more varied playstyles. Not saying the CD dlc was misspriced (I actually think it was a fair price considering inflation) and a fine dlc overall. I'm just wondering what you are basing that thought on. Because almost all their mechanics are straight up yoinked from other factions.
@@theStamax tbh I do agree with you, the Tomb Kings is probably imo the most value DLC, I absolutely love it. Vampire coast is cool, but also had a lot of "stolen" mechanics, such as the raise dead, and their coves are similar to skaven under-cities, but with tomb kings, its understandable.
*Space Skyrim be like:* _"Hey Them/They, you're finally conscious! You were trying to cross that Galaxy Gate, right? Same as us (the space rebels) & that spaceship thief over there."_
For me Legend is spot on regarding affordability vs value. Many of us can spend 30 bucks without batting an eye, yet when we compare what we are getting versus the many disregarded bugs and lackluster mechanics that get ignored, spending that 30 dollars on CA development has a very bitter taste compared to 15-20 bucks on an indie developer DLC that has way less content. For a game like say, Deep Rock Galactic, which has seen an incredible jump in popularity, I'll gladly spend 50 bucks on skins just to support the game. The money isn't worth what I'm getting but I don't care. I've bought every DLC for Warhammer 1 and 2 and I never really felt either ripped off or regretful. Nor did I regret preordering 3 and I've enjoyed my time with the Ogre Kingdoms in spite of the very barebones contracts and wobbly camp mechanics. Yet after 600 game 3 hours, I haven't had even a tiny bit of motivation to buy Chaos Dwarves or Shadows of Change. Warriors of Chaos was good value to me and I'm happy with it. The rest has me so hesitant, that even on sale I'm wary of buying in the future.
Legend you made a good point about goodwill. I think it applies to Warhammer 2 because then goodwill was important as CA knew 3 was coming and goodwill was valuable to help it sell well. Now there will no Warhammer 4 so the value of goodwill decreases and CA are incentivsed to favour aggressive pricing to squeeze consumers as much as possible at the end of this series' lifecycle. And whatever new fantasy game they release next can be marketed as transformative to distance itself from the badwill gained by heavily monetizing Warhammer 3. Kinda shown in how the badwill from the historical total war community never bled through into Warhammer 2. Also its been so refreshing to play a feature complete game in BG3. No locked content. No season pass. No premium cosmetics that look way better than anything else in the game. If you choose to upload any content of the game I'd enjoy watching how you approach a CRPG like it.
I'm not sure that argument holds water. It would work if WH3 was nearing the end of its life but there's still a lot of possible content for them to mine. There are at least 2 major race packs left for Ind and Keresh not to mention a hoard of characters for both old and new races. They easily have enough content available for a dozen more DLCs. That's a lot of money to piss away for the sake of a quick buck right now.
@@sr71silverYes and no. You're right that it may seem a little early, but you're wrong in the sense that you think they still have a lot of content to milk and they don't need to be so aggressive right now. They will be aggressive from now and UNTIL they milk all the potentially available content. It's a good strategy. Release the DLCs at stupid prices, milk the ones who are willing to buy them, then once that wave dies off, release ever increasing sales on each DLCs until all the people who want it end up buying it, at their various levels of money spending willingness. Next sale will be 25-40% off. On Christmas they'll drop it down to 60% off. Beyond that, fuck knows. People will still buy it, just at different times and different prices. They'll use WH3 to gauge and possibly abuse as much monetary gain as they can, especially until the game gets pirated and they notice huge sale drops. They might backpedal a bit at that point, but they'll overall use WH3 as a cash cow for their next title. Could be they'll rebuild pharaoh, could be they'll work on something else.
Honestly. They should do what War Thunders' playerbase did. - Review bomb it into oblivion so it doesn't reach the eyes of new consumers. A few weeks later, the game released updates which is making it far more of a user friendly experience, and reduction in money-grubbing behaviours. - It actually works as a concept. People who tell you it doesn't are wrong.
The goodwill and word of mouth was super on point for me personally. I used to be a "historical mark" when it come to TW but toward the end of WH2 I've heard so many positive things about it (many of which was from you) that it got me back in and I bought every TWWH products since. Another point I want to make is that people in small markets like me cant use many market sites like Instant gaming because the code are not supported in our region so we have to wait for official Steam sales for DLCs. Relative prices are also a bit higher in our countries compared to US and UK since the exchange rate and price level are not in our favors. This aggressive price strategy would discourage players in other smaller regions than most from buying future products.
@@guilhermetheodoro5759 thank you for pointing that out, I might have missed it or did not know how to properly use it, definitely try looking harder next time.
Get global keys? You could be on the moon and still get a global key. This comment doesn't make sense except for the price conversions. Those have been terrible forever and I wouldn't expect it to get better when they can keep milking you guys at 0 loss to their company. Only loss is their respect but clearly they dont care if they're respected.
23:47 one thing I have not often seen is why other RUclipsrs aren’t meant honing the fact that sales would better if they confirmed that Mesopotamia is coming. You can’t have a ultimate Bronze Age experience without Mesopotamia! Feels like I’m the only one screaming into the wind about it.
Hey Legend, just wanted to say I really appreciate the change in tone from some of your early vids. You have become such a great and awesome guy and I fully enjoy your content now. Discussions like theese are very important and I just wanted to say good job and thank you. Have a good one mate.
You're 100% right about Pharaoh. Not that I wouldn't play it if it's good. But I've been burned too much by historical games since ToB. And was really disappointed how they fumbled 3 kingdoms DLC (whoever decided to do 8 princes as the first DLC should be fired)
As someone who isn't a stranger to DLCs being both high in quantity and price (Paradox enjoyer here), CA just cannot justify £20 for this DLC. Now granted, I thought £20 for Chaos Dwarfs (Which I'm yet to buy) *might* be justifiable. It's an entirely new race with entirely new units and mechanics, and honestly, I wish it was reasonably priced because their playstyle is one I enjoy the most (Heavy emphasis on artillery, magic, etc). I understand that companies have to charge more nowadays because inflation, at least in the UK, has increased a lot, so they need to charge more to make a profit. But as you said, charging £20 for a DLC that adds 3 legendary lords to factions that already exist with a select few new units completely shreds their image. The base game was £50, which was steep enough as it is. Shadows of Change + Chaos Dwarves = 80% of the base game already. There will always be the select few people who have money they can throw at these DLCs because they're financially doing well in life, and kudos to them. But as someone who works part-time and has just finished university, some months I cannot afford to drop £20 on a singular DLC. Now I don't have any experience in sales, only retail (xdd), but I feel like maintaining a good image and charging low enough to be appealing to the mass, but high enough to still make a profit, is so much better than charging an extreme amount. At least with a company like paradox, who are notorious for their DLCs, actually have ways around their mass amount of DLC,. that being the subscription service. I still use this for EU4. TLDR: We should all not pre order this DLC or any DLC at this price UNLESS we get both high quality and quantity. Screaming and crying about the price but then still buying it makes no sense. CA, like every other company, sees the world through money, not ethics. Take their money away, and maybe, just maybe, we might see a change. Tho since the prices are decided by a select few driven soley by profit, it's unlikely.
They would make more money if they charged less for a digital product tbf. High prices put people off low prices more people buy even the ones less interested
One little nitpick here, video game companies don't need to charge more "because of inflation". They're not having to source more expensive materials in order to make their product so there is no reason why their operating costs would have gone up. They're simply greedy, full stop.
@@Ravengagepvl They are having to source more expensive materials (part replacements and upgrades, office supplies, etc.), but not on such a big scale. They're also having to pay their employees more because everything else is inflated. It's not *all* greed.
Great video. People need to know about all these marketing techniques to avoid making mistakes. It's also good to hear that other RUclipsrs on the inside are starting to push back to. (I warned CA many times they have a revolt on the horizon - did they listen? Of course not)
I am in the camp you talked about with Pharaoh. I want the game, I'm reaaally interested in it actually. But I'm not buying it till release day *at best* partially because of this but also bc of the recent failure in bug fixes and game maintenance.
This price was a final straw for me. The problem is, I'm not living in first-world countries. When the price was raised for my region for the base game I didn't like it, but still, because I loved Total War and I knew I would spend a lot of time in this game, I bought it even though I didn't like the price. The next step with pricing was chaos dwarfs DLC which doubled their price on total war DLC in my region compared to DLC for 1 and 2 games. I hated it but still, because I loved the game I bought it but it was like the final price that I could give for a DLC. And now they've doubled the price for every DLC again. I can't pay for it and if I could I wouldn't. It's just disgusting to ask this price for one DLC, which is nearly equivalented to Baldur's Gate 3 (again, in my region, I can't say for the others) and I really doubt that it will bring me the same joy as BG3 is doing it right now. Total War games still don't have a text localization for my region but still, they're doubling the price (they did it twice). Well, I better play another game that can bring me the same or better experience (BG3, Hogwarts Legacy, Elden ring for instance) for the same amount of money they're asking for one DLC that brings us only 3 factions with no 4 LL like it was before. It's not worth the price for my region at all, and I really doubt that there will be a lot of people here who will buy it. With this, I'm done with Total War games until the price is changed. But I still will watch your videos because I really like your content, doesn't matter if is it Total War or other games that you play on the channel. Love you, Legends
Throughout TWW2 I bought every single dlc on release. (started halfway through TWW1's cycle) I can easily afford it. TWW3 simply hasn't been worth my time, I haven't played it since before Chaos Dwarfs, which is the first DLC I didn't buy on release. To be interested I need to hear that the game's in a good working state again like TWW2 was. Until then I can enjoy other games like BG3.
@kristofmolnar7106 yeah me too. Not that I couldnt afford the 6 extra euros, rather than not supporting that pricing policy. Also when compared to the khemri dlc, chaos dwarves have less to offer (3 vs 4 legendary lords, entirely new unit roaster).
I really wouldn't mind the price hike if they invested more into the game. There are a lot of issues, yes, there have been some fixes since the launch of the game, but there's still plenty to fix. Many faction to bring up to speed. Content to be added. I don't mind the price hike if we get a longer live cycle for W3. But give more resources to it. Make a custodian team.
Insane pricing. And Baldurs Gate 3 has hundreds of hours of playtime, quality and quantity content, no extra costs. And it has an actual fun campaign to play. Remember how fun the main campaign from TW3 is? Creative Assembly gets too high on their horse.
baldur's gate has very limited amount of playable characters to be made naked. warhammer 3 offers entire armies. there is no comparison in quality and quantity.
@@tarnyowl6068 The prologue was the best part. The descent into madness from the protagonist of the prologue was really good. The siege mechanics and the grindy chaos gate mechanic broke the fun in the original campaign for me. An ogre playthrough was fun though. I own every dlc of total warhammer. i will buy this next dlc. but still 25 € for 2 lords is really pushing it.
@@xiaopewpew Your are a true gentleman/gentlewoman/whatever you identify as. I do not think that the amount of naked, fuckable characters are a good metric to rate a roleplaying game on. BG3 is not a hentai game. The main campaign of TWH3 is not fun. How many people are playing it again? Everyone is playing Immortal Empires. And that campaign you did only get if you owned all 3 games. That is like 60 € times three. 180 € to have fun with the games you paid for. If that is not price gouging, then what is in your eyes? If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get the full experience, then BG3 is the better more cost-effective game, it will have no extra DLC and comes as a fun experience out of the box. And yes you can compare a tactical roleplaying game to a wargame. They have the same origins. D&D was a wargame at the beginning. The BG3 has well though out mechanics, TWH3 is a messy piece of garbage with unbalanced units, and each time a DLC gets released suddenly all the new units are super op to make the peopel buy it. The units and models are superb and it is fun to fight fantasy armies in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. Do not get me wrong, i am still a fan and own every last game and dlc of the series. But the greed/business practice of CA is really pushing the limits of respectfull attitude towards their loyal customer base. I like the TW series but hey they are really pushing it with 25€ for 2 Lords. What is next? TWH 2 and 3 were glorified race packs with 4 races too, and a shitty campaign tagged on it. The only playable thing is the big immortal empires campaign. Did they even patch the Chaos Gate Campaign. Did they change the siege mechanics that are completely nonsensical, gamey, frustrating, time consuming and not fun to play after x times. I just want to have fun battles, not a wag-a-mole capture the flag mini-game. Have fun.
For me, the biggest problem with CA is not the prices or content quality, it was putting Troy on Epic exclusivity for a year. Which meant even if they gave it away for free it was basically DOA. Still, Pharaoh is back on steam so I guess they learned something from that diabolical.
The mechanics for the changling keeps me hopeful the other 2 faction are just as unique and complex that they hopefully justify the price point, but the lack of units will make that really hard to justify $25.
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael Agreed. Cant believe people even try to justify this. Shows how far the gaming generations have changed mindsets. Quite frankly theres nothing we can do anymore. All these companies are gonna cash out and make even more profit. The "hopefuls" will hop on board with no qualms.
@@arcticdream4905 yeah idk even way back when I was younger I learned after battlefront to never pre-order a game, only made an exception once for battlefield 1 but since then I have been proven right time and again to wait for launch and watch several reviews. Cyper77, No mans sky, fallout 76, bfv, 2042, 95% of the recent COD games. I just never pre-order anymore and wait for reviews.
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael hey just wanted to say you convinced me to refuse. honestly, I paid $22 for the Vortx beast because I have expendable income but I’ll take the side of the people as the community seems really upset and I can wait for a sale.
I am one of those people who would absolutely recommend BG 3 to you Legend. As both a fan of RPGs and tactical games, it is an amazing mix of the two. There are so many ways you can be creative with any given situation to get an advantage on your enemies in combat. It is pretty incredible and really entertaining.
It's quite interesting seeing people still think business greed is divorced from morality, when the concept itself at best rides the line by its very nature. Profit for profits sake is a moral failing, greed being a deadly sin does not come with an asterisk that says "unless you're a business."
1. Don't preorder 2. Wait and see 3. Only buy when DLC in sale 4. Write angry reddit posts and comments everywhere on how crazy expensive it is 5. Enjoy the DLC later
Its way to expensive, but we are not at the level of paradox yet. Atleast the warhammer dlcs has been good with lots of content while paradox dlc are usually just small updates
Paradox DLC are worth the price, and they usually accompany updates to the game itself that you don't have to pay for. And besides : you don't "need" DLC to have fun on their game, it's perfectly serviceable by itself. CA released Warhammer 3 half finished and is making us pay for the missing parts piece by piece.
@@CataStudies They are not. I have always used Paradox DLC practices as example of bad DLC practices. The fact that CA somehow manages to be even worse. Means that people from CA should go to jail. Not that we start accepting Paradoxes DLC practices.
@@MrJustCallMeJames I dunno, I've spent a lot of money on Stellaris and I think it's all been more than worth it given the time I've gotten out of that game
Shadows of Shortchange lol. I am glad to see a side pushing for empathy. Getting tired of seeing communities tear at each other, even though that's pretty much inevitable lol
You can tell how bad the good will is with CA because it crossed everyone’s mind that if we didn’t buy this dlc when it came out, they might axe WHIII. Once you think logically, you know it probably won’t happen because one dlc didn’t sell but it’s still crossing your mind.
1. Nobody gets 100 hours out of a race pack DLC. You cant count the base game mechanics (98% of what you're playing) in the price of the DLC: 2. You're forgetting one major thing. This is virtual software with unlimited stock and zero production cost for the company. This is not a physical product that needs manpower and factory upkeep per unit produced, nor any shipping costs. Raising the price is only going to lower the sales even more. True profits are made by volume sales, not few-but-expensive sales. That's why McDonalds are making more money than Gucci.
@@LordVader1094the most pronounced sentiment I associate with the TWW series now is overwhelming disappointment. CA stood at the precipice of immortal greatness, and we were ready to carry them on our backs. And as they marched from TWW2 to TWW3, they sold their souls to some golden capitalist calf and their games began to fester and rot from the inside out.
WH1 was reasonable / middling at worst but not superb, though they went into 3 with arguable one of the biggest W's being WH2 and it's DLC content + pricing only to immediately shit the bed regarding DLC policy again.
If you pre order this there's nothing stopping CA from constantly increasing the price of the next DLC to the point where it's almost the same price as the full game
Except its not going to increase again. The price increase from 20 -> 25 is a general inflation increase. One we haven't seen since the mid 2000's. And with that in mind, its not too bad all things considered
@@alextros3549 What are you smoking to think it only went from 20 to 25? We had CoC last year for 16 and in WH1 we had Lordpacks for 7,5. Last time I checked we aren’t living in Venezuela, where 300% inflation in 7 years actually happens.
So true, Valheim offers so much more than this dlc, how can anyone justify what is essentially a glorified cosmetic pack for that kind of price? It is ludicrous.
I've been thinking about something I saw when Warhammer 3 first came out, and when people were upset about the QA issues, there were people in that subreddit begging people not to boycott the game/upcoming DLC - in fear of Warhammer 3 being abandoned before we got to see a fully finished immortal empires. They pointed at 3 kingdoms and said it was abandoned due to criticism and poor sales. Whether that's true or whether CA would actually abandon warhammer total war, I was interested in your thoughts on that take. I still see it in the community often.
Honestly, if people boycotting a game over unaddressed grievances are enough to pull the plug on the game entirely, it’s probably for the best. Some things aren’t meant to be and it’ll only make things worse to try and force it.
These are both things I've thought in response to this. If anything else I find this whole thing really interesting. The TW games were effectively set up as a long term investment between CA and the players and seeing the way both are responding to it over time should be informative for anyone trying this in the future. Then again, all this reminds me of drama in a lot of early access titles I've seen, but just scaled up and over multiple titles, so bad business practice is not **that** interesting...
@@TheNetherlandDwarf At this point CA is looking at companies such as Paradox and wondering why they aren't cashing in as well. 50 copies of the DLC at $25 makes 1250, 100 copies at $10 only makes $1000. They're cashing in on the Warhammer mega-fans. Clear as day.
I have bought every DLC for TWW, TWW2, and TWW3 at launch. With Chorfs I was starting to think it was getting a bit over priced and found it cheaper on a legitimate 3rd party, but this new DLC is beyond what I believe is reasonable. I currently have not played enough of TTW3, there is so much content so I may pick it up in a year or so. I am not sure I will bother with any other CA game in the future.
A very solid video. For my part, I am in a rough financial situation so I couldn't pre-order even if I wanted to. But... even if I was doing fine? I'd be letting this sit on the shelf for the moment. That price seems like a little much for me, and there are far too many other things competing for my time these days.
Huh I wasn't a big fan in the past due to you being strong worded but you seem genuinely kinder and happier. I'm glad for you and am now subscribed. Thank for sharing your view on the situation, it was most insightful.
If you like strategy and tactics then you’ll prob love BG3. Larian has perfected turn-based combat. Once you understand the system, the ways you can approach combat become limitless
Were it not for this video, I wouldn't have even known about this DLC. Stopped keeping track after the Chaos Dwarves. Might pick this up from a CD key website if it ever hits -75%.
its just insane to ask for 22€ for a Lord Pack (or any DLC). 3 Campaigns and maybe 10 new Models. It feels like they work 3 days a week and ask for a full salary .
Imagine when some good mods add more and with the same level of quality(or almost same). One day CA will sell us legendary lord only for a such price like they set for this dlc🤣
In some cases its not a case of purchasing a promise if you preorder. If your happy with the track record of the products, then you buying something you feel is worth while. In CA's case, I have mostly been happy with the content. The high price you reference due to the investment does not effect the normal gamer/player, they still pay what is asked and what the company does with that money is up to them.
Never, under any circumstances, to pay 1 full 1 month job salary would be normal for me for ANY game. And thats almost how much full TTW pack with all games and dlcs costs. P. S. Also their move to make WoC a DLC race RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE GAME was super disgusting! The race was the key important for ttw1 and was already prepared! And somehow they have cut off the content from the game abd closed it behind paywall. To plan and create DLC BEFORE game release is disguating!
25:33 I know that this is a hyper-specific comment, but I would say bows do have massive impact in Shogun 2. Not because they are particularly devastating units, but archers shape the battlefield a lot. If a side lacks archers in Shogun 2, the other can pick off entire units without being touched (whether there are trees or not matters a lot, and the skill of the units matter too, Bow Samurai are so much more effective than Bow Ashigaru), or using the threat of that, forcing the enemy to attack one's defensive position.
I have always turned my head at the warhammer dlc prices. I was used to how they did dlc pricing for rome 2 and attila. So the jump in warhammer just made me wait for sales. And as each game has gone on, the dlc feels like its gotten more expensive. And this latest stuff is just way too much for me. So i will just continue to do what i have done and wait for large sales, typically when they do the 66% or more prices.
This is seriously outrageous. They are just trying to see how far they can go with us. Bungie did the same with destiny and to me this just shows they don't give an F about the player base. It's not immoral but it's clearly a bad thing.
I felt like Chaos Dwarfs was too expensive, it was like 35 bucks here in Canada. That one ended up being pretty good IMO, so in the end it was worth the money. A lord pack will never be able to reach that kind of value though, I will only buy this DLC when it goes on sale
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Price Gougeis the Greedy? I thought not… it’s not a story Gaben would tell you, it’s a sith legend. Price Gougeis was a business man, so covetous and so miserly, he could sell anyone anything. The only thing he feared was losing his money, which eventually, of course, he did. He raised the prices too much, then his customers stopped buying his games. Ironic, he could sell anything, but not at any price.
this is my favourite comment
ROFL
Like or not, not reality.
I love these tragedy stories, I hope they're still in 1000 years popular.
love it but dont wanna break 420 likes
That might be the hardest disaster battle Legend has to face
Ahhh, forgetting WH3 launch? :-)
@@KanKazable CA was definitely cheesing him with the review.
Seems unwinnable tbh
HAHAHAHAAHHA this comment is pure gold
Regional prices in australia are insane
Great point about the pricing bell curve. To add to this. The CA perspective is likely that even if they lose 50% of their sales on this DLC, they will still make more money with the 2.5x price increase than if they had kept it at $10. 100 sales at $10 is $1000, 50 sales at $25 is $1250
Great point from a money stand point, however how it comes across is that they don’t care if their fans like or get to experience there content, they are just locking it off from so many people just for the sake of siphoning more money which makes their fans feel bad about it. Even the people with the money can’t be satisfied from the dozens of bugs and half finished content in these recents dlcs, love your content btw
@@onappap Well as said in the preface of the video, what we see is the sales department effect. You can be sure those in customer satisfaction are grumbling, maybe even more than most players. Companies like this are a maze of group and personal interests. What companies as a whole do is try to find that sweetspot between reputation for further sales, and cash-flow in current ones. You could see them slightly backtrack in a couple years to reaquire some good will from the player base, at which point the power will be in the customer service department, and then go back in again with a money focus a bit later, giving the reins again to sales. It's always shifting back and forth to a slight degree.
They have truly learned the GW pricing model.
Something everyone seem to have missed too is why CA hard stopped making race DLC after the Vampire Coast DLC (outside of the mandatory Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs) when they could (and should) have pumped out 1 or 2 more races DLC for TWW2 (mainly Araby and Amazons, which could have occupied the center of TWW2 map) and why they will never do another race DLC from now on:
Making a race DLC cost them a lot, LOT more than making a lord pack, but will at best bring them the same amount of money than said lord pack (if that, a lot of people end up skipping race packs but will take lord packs because they add units to the races they already play).
This is the exact same reasoning that is now making them crank up the price of DLC: spend the minimum and price it the maximum.
I doubt that CA doesn’t care at all about number of sales. Even if they jack up prices that only is patchwork.
If you have 1000x10 sales, then that goes to a 500x20 sales, that trend is more likely to keep going down in future instalments unless the 20 dollar DLC is more than worth the money.
Less saturation mean people are less interested in the product. If you go to a forum and the only post you see are people saying they skipped a DLC then very few would buy it regardless. When the good will runs out then you have to make a better product with a more than fair value to have any chance in making your money back.
The business school term for what you were talking about price levels is “price discrimination”. Like you said, it’s about trying to sell to every customer possible by selling to them at the highest price they’re willing to pay.
With less content like ordered KFC dinner plate with one chicken and one chilli sauce but still charge you dinner plate price, would you accept?
@@Daiciyomon_4594Its called high culinary,high price just for who made this 1 wing.
Which is why piracy is morally correct.
Very good point, thank you
@@t4stingo yeah, yeah, nothing wrong with stealing from rich corporations right? Honestly stupid unless your broke and work yet you can’t experience the videogame any other way.
Something weird is going on at CA. In the recent video they put out about the Changeling, they mention preordering the DLC three times. I've never seen that happen in any of CA's previous DLC walkthrough videos.
There must be new management at CA or Sega.
you vill consume ze product
get excited for next product
dont ask questions
they might want to push their deal with GW to either make a TW with 40k or Age of Sigmar or to include other content into this game.
Warhammer 3 still makes money and they don't have much more warhammer fantasy content to create new DLC from.
@@blodstainer I was thinking about this and, given all they're creating with Kislev and Cathay, I could honestly see them looking into potential new daemons/chaos units. Now they've definitely got realestate to include further specialized marauders and beastmen into the chaos factions but I'd love to see them create further units and even new daemons with GW. With the combination of Old World, AoS, 40K, and Horus Heresy, you'd have such a massive market for new daemons, especially given how old a lot of the sculpts are
I still haven't bought Chaos Dwarvesnl, and Hashut's Hellbulls are my bloodbowl team!!
@@karl5175fpbp
I reckon this will be the first DLC I don’t pick up, it’s just not really worth it at that price with Baldurs Gate just out and Starfield soon
Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty too. Seems there are a lot of good releases which respect our wallet more.
Dude that's my thought exactly!
Definitely! There are so many games I have yet to play or finish... Cyberpunk, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Jagged Alliance 3, X4 newest DLC, finish jedi fallen order and play second one, . . . I could NEVER play Warhammer again and still have a maxed gaming "calendar"... Never mind my other hobbies like motorcycles, paragliding and so on...
You should really try out a game called Aliens: Dark Descent if you have not tried it. It was one of the biggest surprises I have had so far.
I wouldn't buy starfield on release, this year had too many bad releases on pc
The price caused a literall total war among the community
*electric guitar riff from cinematics is heard*
Nice comment, sir.
@@jarus7618 bro this debate might as well be a total war trailer. It's amazing
Total War? more like a war against CA. Total War will be all vs all...
@@ricardoceballos5567 yes very le epic
I can't believe how many people are defending the price.
Good job on presenting a level-headed position as a pillar of the community.
Feels out of place for legend to give such a level headed take.
Good character development.
@@Jagrofeswhen it comes to pricing, Legend has always had level headed takes with his DLC reviews. Giving his honest opinion on value. One of my favorite things about his channel
This happened recently with War Thunder. They kept price gauging, and ignoring player feedback to the point they have lost all the good will they had. Fortunately, they realized they are destroying their business, and turned around, put up feedback poll, for people to write whatever, collected everything they could, and put up a road map to gett their game back on track, and so far, for the last 2 months, they are sticking to their plan, with outstanding results from the playerbase and in sales.
2 steps forward, one step back approach. They will just wait and drip feed more monetization practices to boil the frog that is the vast majority of their playerbase. Look what happened to Call of Duty and Battlefront.
Funny thing is free to play players don't like that. If free to play players leave your pay to win players follow eventually. They are just killing the game slowly. I remember thinking about joining back war thunder, then i realised what they changed and decided to stay away. Same happen with some of my friends. I used to recomend that game a lot. Not anymore
The same won't happen to Total War, CA has been overpricing its DLCs for years now and people simply keep on buying whatever they sell, so they'll just keep doing this and the crying and moaning from Total War players will die in a few weeks, if not days.
Warthunder fan here as well. The review bomb really did help the community
Well look at that, a road map that was actually followed. Sounds like cap to me, but I don't play WT so I wouldn't know.
So glad you and your wife are going to try baldurs gate 3. I've loved larian for awhile now and I'm happy to see their success around this game.
Imagine the cheese and creativity he can pull off
@@Erehart Oh i would really like to see that :)
i cant wait i already beat it with dark urge lol legend might not like turn base combat lol
@@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou Honestly i can see him enjoying a little of that good old barrel-mancing and cheese whole encounters. The things you can pull off in that game are hilarious.
I'm glad too because maybe then he'll know what actual value in a video game is like.
You know, listening to this reminded me of TotalBiscuit. He left a huge hole in critical gaming analysis, and I'm glad that you have and are willing to share the same level of critique and sensibility regarding this corner of the industry. Thanks Legend
TB was abrasive, dickish, and unabashedly forward. A shame we don't have someone like that with as much reach anymore. Miss'em.
@@GoldSpangledBananaBoyI think as much as he was that, his abrasiveness was better directed than the gaming community as a whole can manage. He knew enough about the industry to understand when and where things could be changed through advocacy. Sometimes things will upset gamers even if it's not something that a company can't be faulted for. TB was good at acknowledging when that was true and good at calling out when it was bullshit. It made it a lot easier for the community as a whole to direct their anger towards things that could be changed. I think TB deserves a lot of credit for raising the standards for PC ports. Without a figure like that, it feels like the gaming community has a lot of anger but really doesn't have a good way to put that anger to use.
TB said something and it holds true today: "Please, and I'm not telling you what to do w/ your money, but please. Don't preorder video games." He is gone but his wisdom lives on.
Yes, got those vibes as well. The industry isn't the same without him, but makes me really happy to see those occasional people that still hold his ideology
R.I.P it felt especially bad when people were celebrating his death and learning that people you called associates and friends were doing It to the point it makes your political awakening of the fact that good politics ≠ good person.
A few respectable people actually apologized and explained why it was wrong to even remotely compare him to someone as evil as fucking Margret Thatcher.
Honestly I learned to choose proper friend groups from that experience and TotalBiscuit actually made me a better person.
I agree with you 100% on the "good will" point in the video. It seems to be a trend these days that bigger companies every now and then just decide to cash out on the good will that they have gained and it's actually really annoying. Sure it's good for the profits short term, sometimes even long term. But Baldurs Gate is a great example of what can happen when a company respects customers. Me and six of my friends bought the game simply because we all heard so many good things about it. None of us would have bought it, no matter how much marketing was behind it, but when people whos opinions we value say good things about something, we believe them. I will not be buying any more Total War games or DLC on day one, only when they are on sale and the base game is in a much better state. I've bought every single DLC and Total War game for the past 8 years on day 1. I know I'm just one person, but I have friends who've said the same and I haven't heard anyone say one good thing about CA or Total War games for years and I work in the industry. Their good will is running on fumes at this point, I'm waiting to see what their response is once that well is dry.
I'm most likely going to buy BG3 again on PS5
Exactly why so many publishers want Larian right now, their good will, to use it to cash in on short term profit. Look at Blizzard as another example that's been cashing in on their good will and nostagia for over a decade now, and it still works despite it's been going over the edge multiple times and losing tons of fans for exploiting their willingness to consume their products they love.
It's really sad that when greed takes over, all they see is consumers willing to spend more money than usual based on trust and attachment to a company for previous deeds or any form of attachment needs, rather than feeling like they should continue working on that trust and not take advantage of it.
@@prinstyrio0 I do not think at all, that with Blizzard it is working. They simply switched from a large player base to a small pool filled with whales. I think many of the WoW players are also just a bit addicted at this point, some of them seriously cannot put down the game, even though Blizz is for sure trying everything to do the opposite.
Hearthstone is the only Blizzard game, that I would say has good quality besides WoW: Classic (which is pretty much the past work of Blizz, not a new product, although I heard the dragon expansion is good).
A thing you have to understand is that the gaming industry is simply too big at this point. It does not matter if some of the few who actually pay attention start talking about how they're not buying from x and how they're absolutely doomed.
Diablo 4 came out and made a fucking load of money in sales despite blizzard, for months and months and even years at this point failing as a company, relentlessly pissing people off and acting purely and utterly on a profit-over-everything mindset.
Why? Because there's a gigantic consumer base of people who 1. do not value their own money because they have too much 2. simply do not give a shit and would buy a game from literallyhitler®if it means they can consoom something for a few hours and move on to the next thing 3. people outside of the, all things considered, small bubble of the internet that is people actually deep enough into the hobby to pay attention in the first place and 4. a new generation of kids who dont know or care about anything and simply buy whatever looks cool to them
You can argue that total war is a more niche thing and can lose customers more easily until it's really in trouble, but there's a lot of people who famously do not have object permanence and WILL forget about any and all drama the moment it leaves their focus unless reminded of it. Unless they have such a colossal series of fuck ups in a relative short amount of time it won't matter.
It is a positive feedback loop, or a slippery slope. Once a company establishes that they can disrespect their customers, they will try to take as much ground as possible. They will reach a point where they must apologise and change, or go out of business with no further damage caused. At least that can happen, the IR-A-S, not so much
I will definitely buy this DLC..... at 50% sale.
Thats the spirit
In my opinion wait until 75%
Yeah, even at 50% it will barely reach the price, that it should and would have been with the typical discounts.
@@erikvannik5208So far none od the DLC, even Tw wh1 were lower than 50%
Sail the high seas. Much better
At least with chaos dwarves, EVERYTHING was new, so it was at least a little reasonable…
Sure everything was new but the 3 lords have no unique mechanics at all making every campaign feel the same.
@@Inventor2yeah but your paying for a faction it would make sense that they'd have similar abilities that's the point that's like telling someone all skaven factions are the same because they have food and undercities stupid point
@@djoctavio1234 At least they made some skaven factions have unique mechanics (Skryre lab and eshin assassins)
nowhere near everything new. every campaign mechanic was reskin of existing mechanics , like caravans and slaves and using "a resource" to rush building . and units too ,only a few are actually new units. it is not bad dlc but it sure was overpriced for amount of work they did (NOT) put into it .
@@SilentHotdog28yes, they added that through different DLCs.
Such a shame CA doesn’t work with modders and community of historical titles even though there are great projects like DEI and upcoming Age of Bronze campaign which are doing better job than official devs. And it’s not me having nostalgia 'bout "good old days", it’s them missing profit from exclusion of new players and not listening to feedback from current historical player base. CA is a big company nowadays and really has resources to implement cooperation with community and rewards for cool fan projects.
Thanks for this explanation, Legend.
frrrrrrrr, DEI is the only thing that has made me sink months and months into a single campaign and the modders are so helpful! asked many questions in the past and theyve always been providing links and fixes as well as information on what they plan to do next. wish they could make their own spin off lol
@@eternallyscreaming169, I’ve even heard that mod developer had to buy multiple copies of the game because of problems with mod implementation or smth though it may be an exaggeration.
After all your exceptionally well argued points, that "Shadows of (short)Change" comment got a genuine laugh out of me. Great vid.
couldnt agree more
22:10 “Get your wife’s boyfriend to get you a switch” I died at this line
I live in the U.K. and don’t have a lot of disposable cash because I’m poor. I live in Cardiff with my partner and everything is going up in price and everything is extortionate (my flat is about £900 a month and was the ONLY ONE which didn’t have ungodly amounts of mould, cracks or water marks and bulges in it which landlords and estates agents say ‘it’s not black mould so it’s not a health risk it’s fine’ and these were ONLY £5 less a month) and I’ve just had to leave my minimum wage job to luckily find another with even a few more hours and this is getting common. (I have a degree and plenty of qualifications it’s just there is nothing available work wise and I’ve worked retail, warehouse work, district council contract management, software companies etc.) I know another store in the company I’m with lost 6 people last week because money but the problem is in the U.K. at least everything is going up in price and people just allow it. I was somewhat defending the price yesterday as I view it from the average dev position who I know is underpaid and over worked but sleeping on it I realised that allowing this to happen is literally what’s causing all the issues in the U.K. that impacts those I was looking to defend and allowing people to starve. It’s unacceptable and we need to do something but obviously the ones who can choose a DLC over a meal can’t comprehend it. I hope the outrage caused by this might actually make an impact as even sotek is speaking out about it who is normally positive like myself. (Sorry this is a rambling mess I’m very tired and about to go to work, I hope you get my point the situation is just tiring and upsetting, you can barely afford minimal leisure time nowadays unless you’re working 50+ hours or earning £30k+)
People must not be ashamed about being poor, we’re poor because stuff like this happens and we’re too scared to admit we’re struggling. We’re poor because companies exploit us NOT because you’re lazy or haven’t worked hard and your voice needs to be heard and don’t let those who tell your otherwise belittle or demean you the world was built on the backs of us and it’s about time we realised that.
Again sorry about the rambling mess I hope this and the million edits I made make sense.
Keep grinding brother, WR11 here.
@@Pattrickro was born and raised in Worcestershire (Worcester myself) only moved to Cardiff within the last year! Same to you man
Join the communists viva le revolution bro
@@charlesman8722yeah if you’re poor the last thing you need to complain about is the dlc price
of a video game when you can’t afford a place that isn’t trash when you’re supposedly splitting it with a, partner? I guess wife
or w/e
Yeah, well, this whole idea of poor people are lazy is probably at the top of the idiocy by idiotic excuses for human beings, and I really pity whoever thinks saying this makes any kind of sense.
That said, I still think that this rage about the price is a bit premature, since we still haven't seen everything that it's going to offer.
Great Video but slight disagreement on one point: If everyone in both armies is 10% slower it advantages the ranged units because they have more time to shoot. Every change even if equally applied will help specific unit types.
Yeah, I disagree with this point too. Also, heavily armored units will struggle if it’s rainy due to their weight and muddy areas which gives lighter troops an advantage. The mud will also effect chariots. So army build variety will be important. Regional recruitment is going to play a heavy role too. Egyptians will do fine in the desert but the Hittites will struggle being that their troops are heavily armored.
Yep, also delays concentrating spread out forces can be significant.
Still last LoTW videos I watched he just showed cheesy cavalry tactics and couldn't be bothered to use pre-Marian reform Roman units calling them garbage despite the fact that they could be used effectively, if coordinated by maneuvering in battle.
I grew up on Medieval 2 and I loved the game to death, when I got older and was able to get back into the newer entries of the series, getting Shogun 2 and then working backwards to Empire and Napoleon. All games that I had a lot of fun with (Though Empire was painfully jank more often than not), then I saw Rome 2 happen and how people received it, and I stepped back. I was watching the series for a while, but it seemed to be going down a path away from the older games that between quality issues changes in the games fundamentally that left me alienated. I got Warhammer when it came out but I realized that the fantasy total war games just weren't going to be something I could enjoy, so I went back to just idly watching Total War as it went on. It's been sad watching it progress and get worse both content wise and money farming wise. Nowadays I just hope someone can make a game similar enough that CA feels like they have real direct competition, and that either they'll get their act together or be superseded by someone else. Or perhaps the even more unrealistic option that people avoid their products so much they're forced to change how they operate.
I just autoresolve in Empire, and have alot of fun that way... XD
That's sad. The warhammer games are probably the best Total wars since Medieval 2, just in terms of faction variety.
@@williamchristy9463 I couldn't really enjoy the way the gameplay in Warhammer felt, it's hard to put into words exactly, at least in a concise manner without going back and playing it again but it just didn't feel good to me. I'm one of the old TW fans that just can't follow the series into its new form ig. That and though the base game has a decent amount of factions and units, I can't say I was much a fan of the DLC cycle even when it was more substantial for less than what they're trying to pull now
Legend, I feel like there's also the issue of apathy cost. Which is basically that the longer it stays at that higher price, the less people are going to care enough to buy it when it eventually does go on sale. Most individual players are only really interested in one Lord or faction in a given pack. If they are priced out for 6 months to a year, then that's plenty of time for that interest to dull and fade and be replaced with apathy. Cause people aren't gonna just sit still and wait for a sale, they're going to play other games, and the games that they're playing are the ones that they'll buy content for, not games they haven't touched in a year cause it's become too expensive. They might revisit it much later if things are on sale for like 80% but not in the near term.
Yes for me the only reason would be to get the tzentch patch to make it hopefuly fun...
My grandfather would always say, "If you wait long enough you won't want it anymore", which is very apt here. When the Chaos Dwarfs DLC came out I was really busy with life, so couldn't play it and thus didn't buy it. It has since gone on sale, but I no longer feel excited to play it, so have still not bought it, despite having the time to play it. Now I have moved onto other games.
I suspect that I will also skip this new DLC for the foreseeable too, as even with a 50% sale it will not interest me in playing Warhammer 3 again with all of the bugs and issues the game still has.
6months down the line more review of the DLC have come about. If they are negative and the game is still fill with bugs then the incentive to come back to this game and invest into it is even less.
also now people are excited to invest into this since its brand new and exciting, so if they value this dlc at 15$ that excitement might make them want to overpay a bit to maybe 20$. but in 6months when this is no longer new, you might have a problem even in convincing them to pay that 15$ and will need to lower it down to 10$ to buy it. so you don't necessarily make money by this strategy.
real talk, I was considering buying all 3 total war warhammer games this christmas
I might just not, considering how everyone that plays the game seems to agree the latest dlcs have been overpriced
Thats what im doing. At this point im waiting for the whole package including DLC to be around 40 bucks. If I have to wait 3 years for a G2A key fine, but im definitely not paying these insane prices. Would rather play another game/support less egregious devs. This monetization is becoming intense and it wouldnt surprise me if this new era is only in its infancy. Could easily see them start selling unit skins or even individual RoR's for 99 cents.
For me, when I bought the Chaos Dwarves, whilst the price for that was steeper than what DLCs were before I felt it was ultimately worth it because I was having fun with a brand new race with all new units and mechanics and also at that time there was no other game out there that was keeping me occupied. The difference here is that its a lord pack for existing races, I will have to see what changes these races are going to receive, how their unique mechanics will play (and these arent necessarily fun mechanics, Nakai and Markus proved that for WH2) and how much impact the new units are. But the other main difference is now I do have other games to keep me busy. I am having a blast with Baldur's Gate 3 and very soon Starfield will come out. Its far easier a decision this time round for me to skip this lord pack until later when there is a sale or something.
I'm the exact same. I love the chorfs and for a whole new roster it felt worth it. Now with Baldurs gate and starfield I'll probably just skip on warhammer 3 for a while
@@Masquerade1200 same thing for me but instead its gonna be nonstop payday 3
You supported their decision, this is the consequences.
I'm still waiting for a 50% off.
Yep same
It's too expensive for a Third Worlder like me :,(
Skill issue
@@itnotmeitu3896 lol
Just sell a kidney
@kristofmolnar7106 they don't usually ask when buying dw
How about I just sell myself to slavery to some white men in Europe? Seems like a good solution to me.
Thank you so much for explaining something that I've believed for a long time now.
I've clocked >2000 hrs on WH2 yet on WH3 it's
Same, no WH3 DLC till my main launch gripes with WH3 are fixed, and they still aren't. Happy to watch Legend from time to time & follow the game, but nah man, there's more games being made every year. Hooded Horse publisher makes a lot of titles to scratch that strategy itch.
Same. I bought full DLC for WH2, but not a single one for WH3. Surely CA is not "immoral" to increas price, but I have my own justice and I simply vote by not buying these DLC and not play WH3. Plus, there is a new FromSoftware game on the horizon this month with a honest price. People like me don't complain about the greed, they simply walk away.
Wild exact same games here i went back to lol
i just dont get it man. i got into wh2 like 6 months before wh3, ive been playing wh3 for hundreds of hours and love it! what is the problem? i just havent seen any yet
As much as I hate to say it warhammer 3 is so damn good now especially the chaos DLC. I hate rewarding a sucky company and I NEVER preorder but the DLCs have been quite good.
I always love when legend takes on the broader issue in this very niche community I found myself in over the past five years. I bought Medieval two total war shogun two total war and empire, total war off of a sale one year, and then got into Warhammer two as Warhammer three was coming out, and it’s been nothing but tumultuous ever since. And I appreciate that legend is here contextualizing it.
As much as people like to focus in the Dollars and Euro pricing, they are so many other regional prices that got it waaay worse. In Argentina, this DLC already is HALF the price of the base game, and is more expensive than Chaos Dwarfs for some reason. In Reddit, I've seen so many other countries like Turkey and countries in Eastern Europe that got the same treatment.
Hi, google dlc unlocker and get it free.
The only thing worse than the regional pricing is the absolute geniuses in first world countries saying that the regional pricing is fine because "well thats only x$ USD, thats really cheap!". not understanding that different countries have completely different economies, average wages, costs of living etc.
@@luxie8097 thats a more complex problem than you think. If the pricing isnt Universal there are pepole who Will buy it in Argentine or turkey steam shop Just by using vpn.
I Brazil the price is absurd, Just tô compare, minimal wage here os 1091reais and only the base game is 250Reais (1Dolar= 4,90reais)
@@KrolPawiSteam has countermeasures against that.
For me, I think the issue is the fact that fact we’re getting the same amount of stuff for a lord pack for WH2, but split across 3 factions.
Edit: Legend, you’re an amazing human being for explaining this stuff. Hopefully CA will listen to you.
It's the same amount of units per faction as The Queen and the Crone gave the High Elves (Alarielle, , Handmaiden Hero, Sisters of Avelorn, Shadow Warriors) and Dark Elves (Hellebron, Sorceress Lord, Sisters of Slaughter, Doomfire Warlocks, Kharybdiss). The Prophet and the Warlock added 13 new LLs, Lords and units, the same amount of units total, with the Lizardmen taking the majority.
The price is still steep, I agree, but it's not any different from the WH2 Lord Packs.
@@Tzilandino it’s not, each faction gets 4 new units with one of them receiving a LH instead of a generic lord or hero. And this is before we find out if Tzaangors or any of the others have more variants
@@Tzilandialthough yes the prophet and the warlock is a strange anomaly
@@Ton0_oTonA new tw player here, is The Prophet and The Warlock worth it? Only have the third game
@@alfasolmega4458 If you like Skaven (or want to play them) the DLC lets you play as Ikit Claw, one of the best Skaven lords by a mile whose army specializes in weapon teams and artillery with unique ways to improve them. The other half is a Skink lizardmen lord which is also quite good but I think Ikit is the main selling point, you can easily find videos on Legend's channel of him using Ikit to see if it is something you want.
I think this price would be a lot more acceptable to me if it meant they were going to put more attention in to maintaining the game, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It looks like every time there is a DLC or an update that, while there will be bug fixes, there will be new bugs and a whole host of issues that we will just have to deal with until the next major DLC/update. It was the same with Warhammer 2 but at least they weren't charging this much.
100% agreed. I am only interested in the Cathay and Kislev lords from this pack, and even still I would be willing to pay this price if I saw that CA was actually working on fixing the bugs in the game rather than just adding new ones every time they add new content.
Agree.
If this was DLC for Warhammer 2, I'd seriously consider it
Warhammer 3 still doesn't run as well as 2, it's still a mess, so no.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 This for me is the worst of all, one year later and Warhammer 2 still runs better.
Its the worst for pvp players. Theyre already dont get basically anything, might not even buy the DLC - or forced to, to get access to the current, most busted units... either way, they WILL have to contend with the op/bugged units of XY patch for 4-6 months. Stuff like Grail Knights last patch completely ruined the meta, as did strong lords in the past like Grom or Taurox.
@@Pedro-zu3uq Is WH3 not running well? Last i played I could burn out about 15 turns before I could do 5 turns in WH2 cause it takes a week to run through turns in the old game cause it runs poorly
The thing I hate the most about CA DLC is that they are broken and OP when they are released, and then just before the next DLC comes out they are "re-balanced" into uselessness. I am just so done with it.
Is this from a singleplayer standpoint? Chaos Dwarfs is the second strongest faction in the game, post nerf.
That sounds like CoD Warzone
It really is sad to think where CA was 20 years ago and where they ended up now. They've fumbled the bag so hard.
This kind of in fighting has always been in thing in almost every community, and it obviously solves nothing. As if lower prices would some how harm the ego of these people that protect anti consumer behavior but the best thing to do; and I have said it relentlessly, is to just not buy the product. If the product doesn't offer a good value don't buy it, mostly during the time it will be coming out, we will be only 30 days away from starfield if that's something you are interested in. You can always pick up the dlc later on sale.
Yeah, given the insanely high rate of actual inflation (which is more than what the government admits), this price hike might not be that crazy.
@@lightworker2956 Well that's a separate discussion, even though it might some what correlate with the price hike, we just lack some info that would solely put this up to inflation. It's also a digital good, which inflation would only affect man hours and infrastructure, and we just lack this information.
that solves nothing tho did you not watch the video? they will get your money eventually when it goes on sale while also getting the money from the big spenders all according to plan
@@lightworker2956 inflation doesn't affect a digitally distributed product whatsoever.
At least CA releases games that people want. Pretty sure Starfield is going straight to the ps2 bargain bin.
"The Reddit is a lot more reasonable" if that isn't a daming indictment of the Steam discussion forum I don't know what is
Reddit a wasteland of free thought and you call it reasonable.
@@rodrikofharlaw6848 not reasonable, MORE reasonable THAN steam discussions. This conveys how terrible steam discussions are if you already think reddit is bad
@@emilemerian3740 Steam is still better. A little more hostile but grow some skin you circle jerkers.
Reddit got to much censorship, where steam leaves it more unfiltered. Hence the more toxicity. But I wouldn't trade that, for what people are truly feeling. I'd rather get the whole truth, no matter how toxic it is.
@@mathiaspedersen7171 These people fear truth that goes against their narratives and programing.
The problem for me is also exchange, 25 USD might not seem much, but in my country, that is about 100, which utterly ridiculous.
Aee you a fellow malaysian resident lol
Regional pricing should be addressed.
25 for a dlc is quite a lot. nowadays AA studios make complete games for that price.
even british are whining while a game cost like 5 subway tickets lol 🤣
Same, DLC's costing R$100 + are way too expensive.
The thing about the total war series is that there is no real competitor for CA to be afraid of. CA knows that people will pay more because they need their fix of the genre.
Eh I just play HOI4 these days. They might not be competing for this niche but they're definitely competing for player interest
Not true. People will just play the old games that are constantly on sale, they are self cannabilizing themselves into the dirt. It's working now, but how about 10 years from now when no one can afford video games or DLC because of going through a constant decline in the USD having a recession? It will destroy them eventually.
@@robertsteiner4696 if the recession gets that bad I think video games are the least of our concerns
@@nicwolf1370 Paradox is as greedy as CA ...yeah I play Stellaris and CK3 , those DLCs prices can really be crazy. And not sure they even add more than those WH3 ones ...
I wish every community had a legend of total war. In the current state of the world we could all use a little more empathy. Video games are supposed to be fun, these communities are built around sharing fun and/or meaningful experiences with one another. Be kind to one another even when angry at a given situation.
My major annoyance is that the DLC covers 3 different races. I only play a couple of the races, and it helped on DLC because I could ignore the DLC that didn't cover the races I liked. They were already doing 2. From their perspective they are "increasing" the number of DLCs I would buy on top of making my pay more for each. From mine, they are reducing the percentage of the DLC I even want while increasing the price. Which Is why I wont be buying.
@@charlesman8722sometimes less is more
@@charlesman8722 They could sell them separately at a lower price instead of selling a bundle of 3 that many only want 1 of.
They've not beefed it up more, they give you only about 4 units per race, which may be overpowered but aren`t enough. it just doesn't seem interesting to me, and it isn't worth 35 dollars
@@charlesman8722 beefed up but with a commensurate price increase
@@albertotejedorgauna I though it was 25
You know what.. I'm actually super impressed with the reason and logic you applied here. I know you've had an extremely rough relationship with CA and it can be very stress inducing - but you've actually explained this in a really calm and smart way. Doesn't seem to be much bias or rage at all, just hitting the key points and peeling back the curtain.
Personally, I'm not so bummed out by the price - I'm more upset at the lack of Hag Lore, lack of Generic Lord for Kislev, Generic Hero for Cathay, and lack of both for Tzeentch. Beyond that, I'm certain I'll still get my moneys worth from playtime. I would've just been nice if they'd matched the content per faction that previous DLC had hit.
Honestly from my pov all of this gets covered by mods anyways (bless them they make incredible work)
They need to start selling lords individually because unlike a faction pack a lord pack will often include factions you aren't interested in playing. From this perspective lord packs are even worse value unless you are someone who plays every faction in the game.
@@obi-wan3916
It's probably on purpose sadly
@@obi-wan3916 Well to be fair they did alright so far. I didn't want Eltharion when I got Grom, but Eltharion actually made me play the high elves for the first time. Really cool guy.
This one does seem weird. It looks like a lot of cool stuff will be added but it seems like they had all the stuff being released just "laying around" so they took a shotgun approach which is not something they do very often. At least not with Warhammer.
"Weird but ok" is my opinion so far.
You’re 100% correct on the good-will side of things. I only bought 3K on a heavy sale and honestly barely touched it since then. Never touched Troy, never will. Hell, I didn’t even know Pharaoh was in the making. That’s how little I care about CA’s new shit. I got Rome 2, am happy with that.
Legend, great video and really well said. I havent bought any CA stuff in over 2 years. Partly I don't have a lot of time, but also the mod communities are great. There are so many great mods which overhaul the game, e.g divide et impera, RTR imperium surrectum amongst others. I don't know the stats on mod Downloads, but would be great to see the profile of the modding communities raised ( appreciate this wouldbe a tough sell to CA, as it would reduce their profits. It's sad so many total war youtubers have disappeared from a few years ago. I love the franchise, and got into it from Time Commanders on the BBC in the UK, not long after RTW1 was released.
@@hohenzollern6025 WH3 recently got Nagash just so you know, if you already have everything for it I'd highly recommend, the modteam put a hell of a lot of work into it with a ton of new and improved mechanics, can't praise em enough
Really solid video Legend! Completely Agree!
Watching CA pissing away their goodwill is like watching an drug-addicted family member piss away their life. You just want to shake them and say "why the hell are you making these terrible choices??" But you know it just won't make any difference.... They need to really get on top of the bugs among the other issues. Thanks Legend for this video tho!
I'd use another analogy. CA is the dealer and the customers are the junkies who keep throwing them money against their better judgement. Yeah they'll lose some of them but they've tapped into a core of addicts who will keep giving them money no matter what so they'll ride this to the end. By the time Total War Warhammer runs out of steam (which could be a long time coming) it'll be someone else's problem, they'll have made enough. The company is made of individuals after all not people who stay there forever.
Warhammer pretty much ruined the franchise. You have these donks willing to buy every dlc and CA knows they don't have to improve their engine. Either they have a brand new engine that's amazing in the pipeline or they know they're at the end of the line and are milking as much money as they can before the Total War name is killed off.
Whats funny is they dont see the short term gain, long term loss effect that will clearly take place here. Surely they may come out in the green in the end, but their respect and integrity have been tanking ever since Rome 2. They more than likely dont care anymore.
The real "Fatshark Game Enjoyer" experience as well
especially after warhammer 3 is just much weaker as a game then 2. The fix they promised for chaos and the 4 chaos factions also require a DLC even though they are the main part of a full price game
Well said, Legend. Thanks for giving an insight into the business aspect of the price hike, too, it's always interesting to see the behind-the-scenes of stuff like that.
It's a real shame that CA decided to go this route with DLC for Warhammer, but hopefully enough people get sick of it in time that they can go back to the pricing models in WH2.
For the Chaos Dwarfs, I do somewhat understand the pricing, as we got a lot of content, more in my opinion, than any other previous DLC, so I believe that was justified. The same price for 3 legendary lords from existing races is wild. With the chaos dwarfs, we got 31 new units, an extensive system for the chaos dwarfs, and much more. With this new legendary lord pack, we are getting 11 new units, and legendary lords that will follow an system we already have, maybe slightly deviating from it. None the less, this is one of the worst priced DLCs from a content perspective, but I'm gonna have to see it in game before coming to a conclusion, definitely not pre-ordering it.
We got 3 lords with the exact same playstyle while this DLC seems to have actual unique faction mechanics.
@@blaat44 Like I said, that maybe the case, we'll have to wait to see how it plays. The chaos dwarf lords do play differently, and even if they didn't, we still got around 3x the amount of units we're gonna get in the the shadows of change DLC
I'm curious how Chaos Dwarfs offered more content than ANY other dlc, considering Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast both have significantly more unique mechanics and more varied playstyles. Not saying the CD dlc was misspriced (I actually think it was a fair price considering inflation) and a fine dlc overall. I'm just wondering what you are basing that thought on. Because almost all their mechanics are straight up yoinked from other factions.
@@theStamax tbh I do agree with you, the Tomb Kings is probably imo the most value DLC, I absolutely love it. Vampire coast is cool, but also had a lot of "stolen" mechanics, such as the raise dead, and their coves are similar to skaven under-cities, but with tomb kings, its understandable.
@@Frederatorryou know that skaven stole the undercity mechanic from pirate coves, not the other way around?
*Space Skyrim be like:*
_"Hey Them/They, you're finally conscious! You were trying to cross that Galaxy Gate, right? Same as us (the space rebels) & that spaceship thief over there."_
For me Legend is spot on regarding affordability vs value. Many of us can spend 30 bucks without batting an eye, yet when we compare what we are getting versus the many disregarded bugs and lackluster mechanics that get ignored, spending that 30 dollars on CA development has a very bitter taste compared to 15-20 bucks on an indie developer DLC that has way less content. For a game like say, Deep Rock Galactic, which has seen an incredible jump in popularity, I'll gladly spend 50 bucks on skins just to support the game. The money isn't worth what I'm getting but I don't care. I've bought every DLC for Warhammer 1 and 2 and I never really felt either ripped off or regretful. Nor did I regret preordering 3 and I've enjoyed my time with the Ogre Kingdoms in spite of the very barebones contracts and wobbly camp mechanics. Yet after 600 game 3 hours, I haven't had even a tiny bit of motivation to buy Chaos Dwarves or Shadows of Change. Warriors of Chaos was good value to me and I'm happy with it. The rest has me so hesitant, that even on sale I'm wary of buying in the future.
Legend telling me to get my wife's boyfriend to buy me a switch is all I have ever needed in life
Do your wifes bf one better and get the dlc for free, google dlc unlocker. Fuck CA
Legend you made a good point about goodwill. I think it applies to Warhammer 2 because then goodwill was important as CA knew 3 was coming and goodwill was valuable to help it sell well. Now there will no Warhammer 4 so the value of goodwill decreases and CA are incentivsed to favour aggressive pricing to squeeze consumers as much as possible at the end of this series' lifecycle. And whatever new fantasy game they release next can be marketed as transformative to distance itself from the badwill gained by heavily monetizing Warhammer 3. Kinda shown in how the badwill from the historical total war community never bled through into Warhammer 2.
Also its been so refreshing to play a feature complete game in BG3. No locked content. No season pass. No premium cosmetics that look way better than anything else in the game. If you choose to upload any content of the game I'd enjoy watching how you approach a CRPG like it.
I'm not sure that argument holds water. It would work if WH3 was nearing the end of its life but there's still a lot of possible content for them to mine. There are at least 2 major race packs left for Ind and Keresh not to mention a hoard of characters for both old and new races. They easily have enough content available for a dozen more DLCs. That's a lot of money to piss away for the sake of a quick buck right now.
@@sr71silverYes and no.
You're right that it may seem a little early, but you're wrong in the sense that you think they still have a lot of content to milk and they don't need to be so aggressive right now.
They will be aggressive from now and UNTIL they milk all the potentially available content.
It's a good strategy. Release the DLCs at stupid prices, milk the ones who are willing to buy them, then once that wave dies off, release ever increasing sales on each DLCs until all the people who want it end up buying it, at their various levels of money spending willingness.
Next sale will be 25-40% off. On Christmas they'll drop it down to 60% off. Beyond that, fuck knows.
People will still buy it, just at different times and different prices.
They'll use WH3 to gauge and possibly abuse as much monetary gain as they can, especially until the game gets pirated and they notice huge sale drops. They might backpedal a bit at that point, but they'll overall use WH3 as a cash cow for their next title. Could be they'll rebuild pharaoh, could be they'll work on something else.
Honestly. They should do what War Thunders' playerbase did. - Review bomb it into oblivion so it doesn't reach the eyes of new consumers.
A few weeks later, the game released updates which is making it far more of a user friendly experience, and reduction in money-grubbing behaviours. - It actually works as a concept.
People who tell you it doesn't are wrong.
@@sr71silver I mean, I wouldn't be overenthusiastic about getting Ind/Khuresh. Those are both pretty remote possibilities.
@@josephrohrbach1588 so was Cathay at one point.
The goodwill and word of mouth was super on point for me personally. I used to be a "historical mark" when it come to TW but toward the end of WH2 I've heard so many positive things about it (many of which was from you) that it got me back in and I bought every TWWH products since.
Another point I want to make is that people in small markets like me cant use many market sites like Instant gaming because the code are not supported in our region so we have to wait for official Steam sales for DLCs. Relative prices are also a bit higher in our countries compared to US and UK since the exchange rate and price level are not in our favors. This aggressive price strategy would discourage players in other smaller regions than most from buying future products.
can't you use global keys?
A lor pf places seel global keys, and is rare that they didn't work.
@@guilhermetheodoro5759 thank you for pointing that out, I might have missed it or did not know how to properly use it, definitely try looking harder next time.
What region are u in
Get global keys? You could be on the moon and still get a global key. This comment doesn't make sense except for the price conversions. Those have been terrible forever and I wouldn't expect it to get better when they can keep milking you guys at 0 loss to their company. Only loss is their respect but clearly they dont care if they're respected.
23:47 one thing I have not often seen is why other RUclipsrs aren’t meant honing the fact that sales would better if they confirmed that Mesopotamia is coming. You can’t have a ultimate Bronze Age experience without Mesopotamia! Feels like I’m the only one screaming into the wind about it.
Yes, if it will be only Egypt and some parts of Anatolia it will be very boring.
Never thought about incremental price decreasing to cover all consumer brackets over time, makes a lot of sense.
There's no justification for it, even if there is an "explanation" for it. It should be 15$, not 25$.
Don't buy it, don't preorder.
Say who? I want a 7900 xtx and the 4090 for 10€ But sadly inflation hits everyone and i have to pay those 1200€ or 1800€.
@@cristianfatu2088That's not an argument. You're reaching hard.
@@cristianfatu2088do you really have to? You can just not buy it. Buying entertainment products isn't exactly a survival necessity.
@@cristianfatu2088 You don't have to you are just addicted manchild that can't control urges.
@@cristianfatu2088 bro what are you talking about?
Hey Legend, just wanted to say I really appreciate the change in tone from some of your early vids. You have become such a great and awesome guy and I fully enjoy your content now. Discussions like theese are very important and I just wanted to say good job and thank you. Have a good one mate.
It’s so much better than 5 years ago. He sounds a lot less stressed as well. Props to him!
You're 100% right about Pharaoh. Not that I wouldn't play it if it's good. But I've been burned too much by historical games since ToB. And was really disappointed how they fumbled 3 kingdoms DLC (whoever decided to do 8 princes as the first DLC should be fired)
22:12 "Get your wife's boyfriend to buy you a switch" I spit out my drink, rofl.
"They might not have ten hours a day to play video games, they might have two hours a week."
I feel so called out right now.
As someone who isn't a stranger to DLCs being both high in quantity and price (Paradox enjoyer here), CA just cannot justify £20 for this DLC.
Now granted, I thought £20 for Chaos Dwarfs (Which I'm yet to buy) *might* be justifiable. It's an entirely new race with entirely new units and mechanics, and honestly, I wish it was reasonably priced because their playstyle is one I enjoy the most (Heavy emphasis on artillery, magic, etc).
I understand that companies have to charge more nowadays because inflation, at least in the UK, has increased a lot, so they need to charge more to make a profit.
But as you said, charging £20 for a DLC that adds 3 legendary lords to factions that already exist with a select few new units completely shreds their image. The base game was £50, which was steep enough as it is. Shadows of Change + Chaos Dwarves = 80% of the base game already. There will always be the select few people who have money they can throw at these DLCs because they're financially doing well in life, and kudos to them. But as someone who works part-time and has just finished university, some months I cannot afford to drop £20 on a singular DLC.
Now I don't have any experience in sales, only retail (xdd), but I feel like maintaining a good image and charging low enough to be appealing to the mass, but high enough to still make a profit, is so much better than charging an extreme amount. At least with a company like paradox, who are notorious for their DLCs, actually have ways around their mass amount of DLC,. that being the subscription service. I still use this for EU4.
TLDR: We should all not pre order this DLC or any DLC at this price UNLESS we get both high quality and quantity. Screaming and crying about the price but then still buying it makes no sense.
CA, like every other company, sees the world through money, not ethics. Take their money away, and maybe, just maybe, we might see a change. Tho since the prices are decided by a select few driven soley by profit, it's unlikely.
With people electing evil scum,
Inflation is up every where unfortunately.
They would make more money if they charged less for a digital product tbf. High prices put people off low prices more people buy even the ones less interested
One little nitpick here, video game companies don't need to charge more "because of inflation". They're not having to source more expensive materials in order to make their product so there is no reason why their operating costs would have gone up. They're simply greedy, full stop.
@@Ravengagepvl They are having to source more expensive materials (part replacements and upgrades, office supplies, etc.), but not on such a big scale. They're also having to pay their employees more because everything else is inflated. It's not *all* greed.
Don't buy it. If you buy it at that price, you've participated in setting the price.
I buy it bcs It’s 16$ on my region. Also i work my ass for that money and already anticipated this kind of prices
Great video. People need to know about all these marketing techniques to avoid making mistakes.
It's also good to hear that other RUclipsrs on the inside are starting to push back to. (I warned CA many times they have a revolt on the horizon - did they listen? Of course not)
Holy shit it's pajama man
The Fez speaks the Truth !!!
I am in the camp you talked about with Pharaoh. I want the game, I'm reaaally interested in it actually. But I'm not buying it till release day *at best* partially because of this but also bc of the recent failure in bug fixes and game maintenance.
When bootsucking REDDIT recognizes devs are taking advantage of them, you know it's pretty severe.
This price was a final straw for me. The problem is, I'm not living in first-world countries. When the price was raised for my region for the base game I didn't like it, but still, because I loved Total War and I knew I would spend a lot of time in this game, I bought it even though I didn't like the price. The next step with pricing was chaos dwarfs DLC which doubled their price on total war DLC in my region compared to DLC for 1 and 2 games. I hated it but still, because I loved the game I bought it but it was like the final price that I could give for a DLC. And now they've doubled the price for every DLC again. I can't pay for it and if I could I wouldn't. It's just disgusting to ask this price for one DLC, which is nearly equivalented to Baldur's Gate 3 (again, in my region, I can't say for the others) and I really doubt that it will bring me the same joy as BG3 is doing it right now. Total War games still don't have a text localization for my region but still, they're doubling the price (they did it twice). Well, I better play another game that can bring me the same or better experience (BG3, Hogwarts Legacy, Elden ring for instance) for the same amount of money they're asking for one DLC that brings us only 3 factions with no 4 LL like it was before. It's not worth the price for my region at all, and I really doubt that there will be a lot of people here who will buy it. With this, I'm done with Total War games until the price is changed. But I still will watch your videos because I really like your content, doesn't matter if is it Total War or other games that you play on the channel. Love you, Legends
What region
Sucks to live in your region
Throughout TWW2 I bought every single dlc on release. (started halfway through TWW1's cycle) I can easily afford it.
TWW3 simply hasn't been worth my time, I haven't played it since before Chaos Dwarfs, which is the first DLC I didn't buy on release.
To be interested I need to hear that the game's in a good working state again like TWW2 was. Until then I can enjoy other games like BG3.
@kristofmolnar7106 yeah me too. Not that I couldnt afford the 6 extra euros, rather than not supporting that pricing policy. Also when compared to the khemri dlc, chaos dwarves have less to offer (3 vs 4 legendary lords, entirely new unit roaster).
I really wouldn't mind the price hike if they invested more into the game. There are a lot of issues, yes, there have been some fixes since the launch of the game, but there's still plenty to fix. Many faction to bring up to speed. Content to be added. I don't mind the price hike if we get a longer live cycle for W3. But give more resources to it. Make a custodian team.
And the AI is still a bloody mess. It's a shame, especially in battles.
the problem is by increasing prices they only showcase their intention to milk the product as fast as they can before finally quitting working on it
Insane pricing. And Baldurs Gate 3 has hundreds of hours of playtime, quality and quantity content, no extra costs. And it has an actual fun campaign to play. Remember how fun the main campaign from TW3 is? Creative Assembly gets too high on their horse.
Tbf WH3 prologue with the guys slow turn to chaos filled with voice lines and cutscenes was amazing and made me super excited to play the game.
baldur's gate has very limited amount of playable characters to be made naked. warhammer 3 offers entire armies. there is no comparison in quality and quantity.
@@tarnyowl6068 The prologue was the best part. The descent into madness from the protagonist of the prologue was really good. The siege mechanics and the grindy chaos gate mechanic broke the fun in the original campaign for me. An ogre playthrough was fun though. I own every dlc of total warhammer. i will buy this next dlc. but still 25 € for 2 lords is really pushing it.
@@xiaopewpew Your are a true gentleman/gentlewoman/whatever you identify as. I do not think that the amount of naked, fuckable characters are a good metric to rate a roleplaying game on. BG3 is not a hentai game.
The main campaign of TWH3 is not fun. How many people are playing it again? Everyone is playing Immortal Empires. And that campaign you did only get if you owned all 3 games. That is like 60 € times three. 180 € to have fun with the games you paid for. If that is not price gouging, then what is in your eyes? If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get the full experience, then BG3 is the better more cost-effective game, it will have no extra DLC and comes as a fun experience out of the box. And yes you can compare a tactical roleplaying game to a wargame. They have the same origins. D&D was a wargame at the beginning. The BG3 has well though out mechanics, TWH3 is a messy piece of garbage with unbalanced units, and each time a DLC gets released suddenly all the new units are super op to make the peopel buy it. The units and models are superb and it is fun to fight fantasy armies in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. Do not get me wrong, i am still a fan and own every last game and dlc of the series. But the greed/business practice of CA is really pushing the limits of respectfull attitude towards their loyal customer base.
I like the TW series but hey they are really pushing it with 25€ for 2 Lords. What is next? TWH 2 and 3 were glorified race packs with 4 races too, and a shitty campaign tagged on it. The only playable thing is the big immortal empires campaign. Did they even patch the Chaos Gate Campaign. Did they change the siege mechanics that are completely nonsensical, gamey, frustrating, time consuming and not fun to play after x times. I just want to have fun battles, not a wag-a-mole capture the flag mini-game.
Have fun.
such quality that the animations during the conversations look like something from mass effect 1
For me, the biggest problem with CA is not the prices or content quality, it was putting Troy on Epic exclusivity for a year. Which meant even if they gave it away for free it was basically DOA. Still, Pharaoh is back on steam so I guess they learned something from that diabolical.
I dunno if they learned anytihng, I just dont think Epic is doing the aggressive exclusivity push anymore
The mechanics for the changling keeps me hopeful the other 2 faction are just as unique and complex that they hopefully justify the price point, but the lack of units will make that really hard to justify $25.
You are insane to be "hopeful" imo. Naïve is more like it. It's just green cathay. Cathay doesn't even get its missing heros lmfao
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael Agreed. Cant believe people even try to justify this. Shows how far the gaming generations have changed mindsets. Quite frankly theres nothing we can do anymore. All these companies are gonna cash out and make even more profit. The "hopefuls" will hop on board with no qualms.
@@arcticdream4905 yeah idk even way back when I was younger I learned after battlefront to never pre-order a game, only made an exception once for battlefield 1 but since then I have been proven right time and again to wait for launch and watch several reviews. Cyper77, No mans sky, fallout 76, bfv, 2042, 95% of the recent COD games. I just never pre-order anymore and wait for reviews.
It's going to be the same as before, with one faction getting all the fun toys, and the others getting squat.
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael hey just wanted to say you convinced me to refuse. honestly, I paid $22 for the Vortx beast because I have expendable income but I’ll take the side of the people as the community seems really upset and I can wait for a sale.
I am one of those people who would absolutely recommend BG 3 to you Legend. As both a fan of RPGs and tactical games, it is an amazing mix of the two. There are so many ways you can be creative with any given situation to get an advantage on your enemies in combat. It is pretty incredible and really entertaining.
Shadows of short change 😁👌🏻
It's quite interesting seeing people still think business greed is divorced from morality, when the concept itself at best rides the line by its very nature. Profit for profits sake is a moral failing, greed being a deadly sin does not come with an asterisk that says "unless you're a business."
1. Don't preorder
2. Wait and see
3. Only buy when DLC in sale
4. Write angry reddit posts and comments everywhere on how crazy expensive it is
5. Enjoy the DLC later
That's insane. For me this DLC costs almost the same amount as the base game. Even Paradox DLC policy is better.
Paradox DLCs from my experience at least are somewhat worth the price.
Its way to expensive, but we are not at the level of paradox yet. Atleast the warhammer dlcs has been good with lots of content while paradox dlc are usually just small updates
Paradox DLC are worth the price, and they usually accompany updates to the game itself that you don't have to pay for. And besides : you don't "need" DLC to have fun on their game, it's perfectly serviceable by itself.
CA released Warhammer 3 half finished and is making us pay for the missing parts piece by piece.
@@CataStudies They are not. I have always used Paradox DLC practices as example of bad DLC practices. The fact that CA somehow manages to be even worse. Means that people from CA should go to jail. Not that we start accepting Paradoxes DLC practices.
@@MrJustCallMeJames
I dunno, I've spent a lot of money on Stellaris and I think it's all been more than worth it given the time I've gotten out of that game
Shadows of Shortchange lol.
I am glad to see a side pushing for empathy. Getting tired of seeing communities tear at each other, even though that's pretty much inevitable lol
You can tell how bad the good will is with CA because it crossed everyone’s mind that if we didn’t buy this dlc when it came out, they might axe WHIII. Once you think logically, you know it probably won’t happen because one dlc didn’t sell but it’s still crossing your mind.
1. Nobody gets 100 hours out of a race pack DLC.
You cant count the base game mechanics (98% of what you're playing) in the price of the DLC:
2. You're forgetting one major thing. This is virtual software with unlimited stock and zero production cost for the company.
This is not a physical product that needs manpower and factory upkeep per unit produced, nor any shipping costs.
Raising the price is only going to lower the sales even more.
True profits are made by volume sales, not few-but-expensive sales.
That's why McDonalds are making more money than Gucci.
The job they've done at completely fumbling this trilogy is truly impressive
Seriously. It's crazy how they went from WH2 to this disaster of a finale to the trilogy.
@@LordVader1094the most pronounced sentiment I associate with the TWW series now is overwhelming disappointment. CA stood at the precipice of immortal greatness, and we were ready to carry them on our backs. And as they marched from TWW2 to TWW3, they sold their souls to some golden capitalist calf and their games began to fester and rot from the inside out.
I think it’s crazy to say they fumbled the warhammer trilogy. Just ignoring everything other than the negatives
@@fishlasers2925 TWWH has been around for a ridiculously long time, there's plenty of opportunity for CA to recover
WH1 was reasonable / middling at worst but not superb, though they went into 3 with arguable one of the biggest W's being WH2 and it's DLC content + pricing only to immediately shit the bed regarding DLC policy again.
If you pre order this there's nothing stopping CA from constantly increasing the price of the next DLC to the point where it's almost the same price as the full game
Except its not going to increase again. The price increase from 20 -> 25 is a general inflation increase. One we haven't seen since the mid 2000's. And with that in mind, its not too bad all things considered
@@alextros3549 25 rounded up is 30. That's a 50% price increase for less content.
@@alextros3549 What are you smoking to think it only went from 20 to 25?
We had CoC last year for 16 and in WH1 we had Lordpacks for 7,5.
Last time I checked we aren’t living in Venezuela, where 300% inflation in 7 years actually happens.
@@alextros3549 posts $25/£20 DLC like it's normal. Laughable.
@@AleXoEx0 You posting about that without reading, that's laughable too.
When you see entire games like Valheim competitively priced, raised eyebrows are warranted.
So true, Valheim offers so much more than this dlc, how can anyone justify what is essentially a glorified cosmetic pack for that kind of price? It is ludicrous.
I've been thinking about something I saw when Warhammer 3 first came out, and when people were upset about the QA issues, there were people in that subreddit begging people not to boycott the game/upcoming DLC - in fear of Warhammer 3 being abandoned before we got to see a fully finished immortal empires. They pointed at 3 kingdoms and said it was abandoned due to criticism and poor sales. Whether that's true or whether CA would actually abandon warhammer total war, I was interested in your thoughts on that take. I still see it in the community often.
Games are usually pulled over poor financials. However, its more likely they're abandoning the historical community at large.
Honestly, if people boycotting a game over unaddressed grievances are enough to pull the plug on the game entirely, it’s probably for the best. Some things aren’t meant to be and it’ll only make things worse to try and force it.
These are both things I've thought in response to this. If anything else I find this whole thing really interesting. The TW games were effectively set up as a long term investment between CA and the players and seeing the way both are responding to it over time should be informative for anyone trying this in the future. Then again, all this reminds me of drama in a lot of early access titles I've seen, but just scaled up and over multiple titles, so bad business practice is not **that** interesting...
@@TheNetherlandDwarf At this point CA is looking at companies such as Paradox and wondering why they aren't cashing in as well. 50 copies of the DLC at $25 makes 1250, 100 copies at $10 only makes $1000. They're cashing in on the Warhammer mega-fans. Clear as day.
I have bought every DLC for TWW, TWW2, and TWW3 at launch. With Chorfs I was starting to think it was getting a bit over priced and found it cheaper on a legitimate 3rd party, but this new DLC is beyond what I believe is reasonable. I currently have not played enough of TTW3, there is so much content so I may pick it up in a year or so. I am not sure I will bother with any other CA game in the future.
A very solid video. For my part, I am in a rough financial situation so I couldn't pre-order even if I wanted to. But... even if I was doing fine? I'd be letting this sit on the shelf for the moment. That price seems like a little much for me, and there are far too many other things competing for my time these days.
Lmao "shadows of short change" it really do be like that.
Huh I wasn't a big fan in the past due to you being strong worded but you seem genuinely kinder and happier. I'm glad for you and am now subscribed. Thank for sharing your view on the situation, it was most insightful.
I still have his Shogun 2 Oda campaign in my playlist and he sounded like an edgy teenager haha
If you like strategy and tactics then you’ll prob love BG3. Larian has perfected turn-based combat. Once you understand the system, the ways you can approach combat become limitless
Were it not for this video, I wouldn't have even known about this DLC. Stopped keeping track after the Chaos Dwarves. Might pick this up from a CD key website if it ever hits -75%.
I love how you leave the messy tangent at the end of the video for us loyal subscribers
its just insane to ask for 22€ for a Lord Pack (or any DLC). 3 Campaigns and maybe 10 new Models. It feels like they work 3 days a week and ask for a full salary .
Imagine when some good mods add more and with the same level of quality(or almost same).
One day CA will sell us legendary lord only for a such price like they set for this dlc🤣
In some cases its not a case of purchasing a promise if you preorder. If your happy with the track record of the products, then you buying something you feel is worth while. In CA's case, I have mostly been happy with the content. The high price you reference due to the investment does not effect the normal gamer/player, they still pay what is asked and what the company does with that money is up to them.
not only a legend of war but a legend in the community
Never, under any circumstances, to pay 1 full 1 month job salary would be normal for me for ANY game. And thats almost how much full TTW pack with all games and dlcs costs.
P. S. Also their move to make WoC a DLC race RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE GAME was super disgusting! The race was the key important for ttw1 and was already prepared! And somehow they have cut off the content from the game abd closed it behind paywall. To plan and create DLC BEFORE game release is disguating!
25:33 I know that this is a hyper-specific comment, but I would say bows do have massive impact in Shogun 2. Not because they are particularly devastating units, but archers shape the battlefield a lot. If a side lacks archers in Shogun 2, the other can pick off entire units without being touched (whether there are trees or not matters a lot, and the skill of the units matter too, Bow Samurai are so much more effective than Bow Ashigaru), or using the threat of that, forcing the enemy to attack one's defensive position.
Total War Warhammer becoming as expensive as Warhammer Fantasy itself
I would love to see a coop of baulders gate 3 on the channel that would be amazing
As an early-ish Legend subscriber, I am still flabbergasted by him somehow being a voice of reason within the community at this stage...
Honestly, I didn't even know they released Total War Pharaoh.
We will always come back to your channel that's for sure legend
I have always turned my head at the warhammer dlc prices. I was used to how they did dlc pricing for rome 2 and attila. So the jump in warhammer just made me wait for sales. And as each game has gone on, the dlc feels like its gotten more expensive. And this latest stuff is just way too much for me. So i will just continue to do what i have done and wait for large sales, typically when they do the 66% or more prices.
This is seriously outrageous. They are just trying to see how far they can go with us. Bungie did the same with destiny and to me this just shows they don't give an F about the player base. It's not immoral but it's clearly a bad thing.
I aint paying that much just for CA to break the game with more bugs lmao.
Aint buying until at least 50% off.
11:40 feels like you're really onto something.
I felt like Chaos Dwarfs was too expensive, it was like 35 bucks here in Canada. That one ended up being pretty good IMO, so in the end it was worth the money. A lord pack will never be able to reach that kind of value though, I will only buy this DLC when it goes on sale