Why Doctor Who's First Episodes Are Disappearing
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- The original Doctor Who episodes (comprising the serial An Unearthly Child) are facing a very uncertain future on the distribution side. Here's why!
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'Let's see how bad they want them.' & 'We are not in it for the money.' sounds like VERY contradictory terms to me.
Oh yeah. It's definitely about the money, but apparently, also about his hatred for various things.
The man is a complete sleaze.
his hatred for what various things? @@kerouac.jackson
It's not for the money...
It's because he doesn't like the fact there's a Black Doctor
_Honestly I wish he was in it for the money_
@@thebobbrom7176 I was thinking this was the same guy who was having a good old fashioned boomer rant about Gatwa.
And THIS is yet another reason why it is SO short sighted to cheer on the death of physical copies of TV shows and movies in favour of streaming, as many do. Those of us who have An Unearthly Child on DVD don't have to worry.
If you haven't got it on a physical format, you haven't got it.
It's as simple as that.
Nor does anyone, really, with an internet connection. It was paid for by the people.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Itunes should have taught people that lesson.
I have it on VHS too!
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Unless you have it digitally. A good digital backup system will easily outlast any physical media.
Rule of Acquisition #29. When someone says "It's not the money," they're lying.
in this case it's accurate. He's very unhinged and all kinds of bigoted. Rants about the current state of the 'woke' BBC
I really don't think it's about the money
So bigoted and woke people don't like money?
Rules to live by...
What if they say it is for the money
Or what if it genuinely isn't the money
I just feel sorry for people who may have needed the audio visual or sign language options not available on DVD/other streamers
Great point - we should've mentioned that's one of the perks of the iPlayer drop. Very sad for people who need those options.
Clips for the unearthly child are still available for doctor who fans watched 1 earlier
I heard that they were adding audiodscription to the stories on IPlayer. Not many outside of Britain use or have access to iPlayer (as far as I know?) so it's questionable how many of us it would actually benefit anyway. I've never seen a thing in my life and have been into Doctor Who since my childhood in the late 80s. One of the reasons I liked it the show is that it's pretty easy to follow without any kind of explanation of the visuals, though of course YYMV I guess; not everyone has the same level of "media awareness" (if you can call it that) or read the novelisations like I did.
@@samronayne9821 and there are illegal site where you can find them. I won't say where to protect it lol
I feel so bad for Russel, he worked so hard to get us all of this on Iplayer and the fact that the most important episode of Doctor Who, and one of the most important episodes of a TV show ever, won't be on there is extremely heart breaking
Worked so hard? All he did was ask for it to be put on iPlayer. How exhausting for him. 🙄
@@Randy_Batswinger he's said he's been trying to get the bbc to put it on iplayer for years in multiple interviews
@@Randy_Batswingeractually not only is it all going on iPlayer. They had to work out copyright issues, they captioned everything, they added audio description, sign language
@@Randy_Batswinger Yeah, you won't have the first episodes aired of Doctor Who but according to the disrespectful Chibnall, new CANON dictates he isn't the first Doctor anyway. This exclusion makes my personal collection bigger than the BBC.
@@Randy_Batswinger it is not that easy
this video proves why you should always own the physical media watch it when you want and they can't take it away from you
There's OTHER streaming sites. I wont mention them, but lets just say you can watch ANYTHING for free ^_^
You missed the part where the writer's son said he was doing this for "vengence". He didn't elaborate on that but previously went on a very heated rant about how his dad is "rolling in his grave" over Ncuti's casting.
So hes a racist to aswell as a money grabbing twat
Oh lovely. Another racist ruins things for everyone. Sigh.
That guy sounds like gem. /s Wow.
Yet the elder Coburn wrote for a show with a female showrunner - Verity Lambert - at the helm, and the very episodes in question were directed by a Indian man (Waris Hussein). Seems rather interesting that Anthony Coburn would have been appalled at Ncuti Gatwa being The Doctor when the two very important people in getting his work to screen were people he'd presumably oppose having power over his writing.
@@generalilbis The guy's fully alt-right indoctrinated. Before this drama, all he did was post mad conspiracy theories and pick fights with anyone moderatly progressive.
I'm one of the lucky ones, I own a DVD copy of An Unearthly Child. I sure hope we don't lose more early episodes of classic Who.
I agree! Hold onto your copies Whovians! You'll need them to ensure these episodes' survival.
I was fortunate enough to find a copy of "The Beginning" box set (US edition) in a used DVD store about 15 years ago. With all that's going on recently, I have the urge to re-watch it earlier than planned - that was going to be the weekend of the actual 60th anniversary, which just happens to coencide with Thanksgiving.
I own one too. I'm glad to say.
I have the same set - got it years ago. It's still available so I may pick up another one just to be sure I have it - who knows what will happen.
I am 100% sure, the BBC won't delete that episode, they "just" locked it away and aren't allowed to broadcast it.
Luckily I also do have these episodes.
At this point I think its fair game to just pirate it.
Pirate everything.
They don’t respect consumers and don’t bother to archive old content.
I wish I could access the Pirate Bay archive but that One Piece is out of my hands.
@@GoldPrince2468 Vpn? Pirate bay is still up, no? Was some time since I checked. Allegedly checked.
@@pmsavenger
You want me to pay for a service and then pay for a VPN?
These companies go sour sooner these days; best keep them humbled.
@@GoldPrince2468 You could use the private ones, I suppose! They don't even allow vpn, and they are free. Although you need an invite, which might be trickier!
Honestly it's mad that these aren't just public domain by now anyway. Copyright is far too long.
An Unearthly Child has Susan listening to a 'transistor radio' when they were still a novelty. Also Susan predicts the decimalisation of sterling (something I can remember when the old Imperial system was ditched). It has the Doctor kind of bringing fire to the tribe - just as Prometheus stole fire from the gods to give to humankind (and mirroring the later reveal of his stealing the Tardis from Gallifrey). That this should happen on the 60th anniversary - how could Coburn's son not feel unwholesome and out of harmony with the spirit of the event?
Not to mention the grand reveal for the very first time that the police box is bigger on the inside, as well the first usage of the iconic take off sound.
Susan's prediction of decimalisation wasn't completely out of the blue, as it had been discussed before in the early 1960s.
Jesus, it's clear that throwing his dad's legacy around like a sledgehammer is the only power this man feels in his sad life. Lucky how the other early writers don't seem to have next of kin who are anywhere near this petty.
Seriously. This tiny, sad little man is just so impotent at life, that the only memorable thing he will ever do with his life is tarnish his father's legacy for Twitter upvotes.
Ironic that he's trying to destroy something that he claims his dad created
@@CyranoJones509 Verity Lambert and Sydney Newman created Doctor Who and you don't hear their estates complaining half as much as this guy does.
@@michaelball93Probably for the best: Let the BBC sort it out. They probably don't have any more control of the show than he does.
IMO, the BBC owns the property. I would advise to continue on the prior agreements with cast and crew. He can sue, but I doubt he has any documentation to back up his claims. They've been generous up to now
@@michaelball93 Lambert and Newman were directly-employed BBC staff, so their position is very different from a contract writer like Coburn.
60 years on and An Unearthly Child is still one of, if not the, best opening episodes ever!
Too bad the three following episodes of the story arc are so incredibly dull....
@@KingRandor82 indeed
It’s very sad, especially as so much Classic Who has been lost through the years. Here we have a story which actually DOES still exist but some selfish idiot wants to take away from everyone.🙄It’s once again proving the problems with streaming services when it comes to the rights to certain shows/episodes.
I am 100% sure the BBC won't delete or throw these episodes away. They're "just" locked away.
Ah well, copyright doesn't last forever and and now that we're not reliant on tapes for storage those episodes will be around a lot longer than this guy.
They havent taken anything away from anyone. They are just not giving you something extra you really want. And as another comment said further up. Some of us actully own a copy already. So no, they are not taking anything away from anyone.
@@bernds6587 Yeah i doubt they will make the same mistake twice.. We already know they have now all been transfered from nitric film to regular tape and then to digital format. So odds on, like you said they will keep the master tape and a master digital copy.
Yup only have to wait 70 years after the creators death and its all ours... @@chrispalmer7893
To borrow from another beloved British sci fi franchise, the man is being a smeghead.
I just hope someone pays him a tonne of money to get this resolved for all time.
The son says he's not in it for the money, but refuses the BBC to continue using his father's episodes because they won't make him a better deal. His actions are in opposition to his words.
I think he's trolling the BBC and has no intention of allowing the episodes on iplayer. If I had the power prevent them airing episodes I would do the same. The BBC is vile and knowing I'm doing my little bit to help kill would me happy. And that's speaking as someone who thanks to co-writing couple of minor hit songs in th 90s earns between £3000 to £4000 a year in airplay royalties from them.
Seems his Twitter account has been suspended for “unusual activity” 🤔
All this just because he's a racist who cant stand the casting of Ncuti...
He's a racist, homophobe and transphobe. Also a conspiracy theorist, spouting anti-vaxx, WEF, deepstate nonsense. I wish the BBC had told him to go forth and put them up anyway.
And a transphobe too. This really sucks.
He had a similar hissy fit around the time of the 50th Anniversary.
Is he really racist? Or is this something you're just hypothesizing. I hope Ncuti does a good job and I like the actor, but if he plays it gay all of a sudden I'm out. I might find it amusing once or twice, but if he plays the character the same as his in Sex Education I'm out, because at that point it's an entirely different show.
@@AussieAmigandr who has always been a bit fruity tbh
It really frustrates me when the family and estates of writers can dictate how the content is managed in the show. Especially when said copyright holders contribute little to the franchise as a whole.
It's the same with the Daleks. The copyright has led to a decline in quality as the contract has led to their impact being reduced with each story.
Well that's the BBCs or whomever was responsible for making the contracts back in the day with the writers.
So you expect someone to just give up their rights to something because a huge broadcasting company wants it?
@@LadyCheshire95 they shouldnt give up the rights however when theyre all on dvd why cant they just allow them to use it instead of keeping it to themselves this is why we have missing episdoes
@@teamsonicchannel4400 We have lots of missing episodes cause they were not kept properly, or were just destoyed very much on purpose by the BBC. I dont feel better for a huge company to own everything leaving creators without a cent (like what happened between Ditko and Marvel/Stan Lee). I understand as a fan taht we want all, but thats only selfishenss talking. I do hope they reach an agreement.
@@LadyCheshire95 I think the point is more that a writer of a tv episode shouldn't have the rights to dictate what is done with that episode. Writers work for the studio and their work is produced for that studio under employment agreement, or they already wrote something and the studio buys it outright, or what have you. Point is, the studio that makes the show should hold the rights to the show that they produced, not some writer who already got paid for their script.
This whole situation with the status of "An Unearthly Child" puts me in mind of a Second Doctor line from "Enemy of the World": "People spend all their time making nice things, and then other people come along and break them." Fortunately we have people in the fandom and in the show's history (past, present, and future) who are continuing to make "nice things" - people like Russell for example. We're backing a franchise (and a fandom) that's grown, evolved, and regenerated so much in the past 60 years. I have no doubt there are families who have been watching it literally for generations - it's a beautiful legacy, something to treasure.
I'm looking forward to the return of David and Catherine (and Murray Gold!) as well as the new era with Ncuti Gatwa. Bring on the new golden age.
"People spend all their time making nice things, and then other people come along and break them." Sums up Chibnall's run. Doctor Who doesn't get a cent of my money until they decanonise the Timeless Child. And that regeneration of fandom that you site, are actually the sad pittance of fandom remaining. The franchise, if not dead, is on life support with Tenant, but will likely die again with Gatwa once the shine wears off. I hope to be proven wrong, but I know they won't be able to help themselves from damaging Doctor Who further with more of their woke agenda.
@@triplejazzmusicisall1883 Yes, I have - the new series theme, Ruby’s theme, and the wonderfully bold “Fifteen”. Thanks for your kind words. Kindness is always wise, whether it’s to yourself, to others, or just in general.
let me answer this with a quote from "the face of evil", Season 14:
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."
Sadly, a timeless (no pun intended) quote.
@@AussieAmigan I think the show will surive quite nicely without your approval, but by all means continue with your tantrum...
The BBC even offered the largest amount they legally could (£20k) as per the WGGB rules.
For anyone unaware the WGGB (Writer's guild of Great Britain) is a british trade union founded in 1959 that's still active to this day. IT'S NOT AMERICAN and is significantly older than most of the unions in the US.
This illustrates the importance of owning physical copies of movies, tv shows, music, etc. At any time you can lose access to on-line versions. You may own an on-line copy but it can be taken away at any time if the hosting service is told to get rid of it. Hopefully this a wake up call to the on-line only crowd.
While i dont have a physical copy (dvd or VHS) i do have it stored digitally. We have a Nas box that has every known episode of Dr who stored on it. Even some of the ones thought missing that had to be pieced together from B roll film, on set photography, storyboard images and animation. And that Nas box has a backup nas box too. So even if we get a full hard drive crash, we still have a copy.
You don't OWN an online copy.
I think the BBC should take him to court. He wasn’t the only writer on it. Those with notes should prove they also wrote it. All he wants is to humiliate the BBC. So I hope the BBC wipes the smirk off his face.
They might well do so.
Quite so. From all reports Coburn was very much a hack writer who often had to be extensively rewritten by the Script Editors, or even on the fly in the studio because the actors found his lines laughably bad.
It's not really about the writing. He claims that Tony created the term TARDIS and something else, and hatred of the BBC as he feels like they killed him and ripped him off. However he continued to work for the BBC till his death. He didn't seem a good writer as his other stories for Who were rejected and was working on Poldark when he took a heart attack and died. The guy is a nutter, tried the same thing in 2013 and didn't get very fa4.
Shouldn't we be just a mite careful about encouraging the BBC to wipe anything when it comes to matters involving Doctor Who?
@@InvisibleAvenger I mean, one supposed reason this guy is holding the episodes of his father's scripts ransom is the guy doesn't like the fact there's a non-white actor playing The Doctor soon and claims his father is "rolling in his grave" over that fact.
The person is holding it hostage and treating fans like garbage as well. Anytime someone calls him out, he dumps on them and says they don’t matter.
He also is a holocaust denier and praises nazi germany. He also says Ncuti as The Doctor is an insult to the legacy and that it’s an insult as well that Jinx Monsoon is playing a villain.
These kinds of bigots are a real pain in the butt
@@aleatoriac7356 agreed. It will be worked out I’m sure but it’s sad how someone who is so cruel gets to hold the history of a wonderful program in their hands.
Damn, as if he wasn't unlikable enough already
@@Captain_Maeve hes a petty entitled child who hates Who fans and is doing this for spite and for money.
Wow, it's disgusting that that the rights to the very first episode of Doctor Who are in the hands of a lunatic.
It’s pretty stupid that he decided to be an arse, because An Unearthly Child is what made Doctor Who. But at least The Daleks will be there for the first story, it’s just ashame that people who are getting into Doctor Who and use BBC IPlayer to watch the episodes might be interested in what was the first episode, but the plot twist is the first story isn’t there. So it’s a pretty bad thing for everyone.
Good job Terry Nation's Estate didn't behave like this otherwise we'd all be screwed!
I love this channel but I'm quite sad about this news:(
from his twitter feed comes cross not nice person and has some bad right win views so beware maybe upsetting by doctor who writers son
Don't worry RTD can always write and film a new First Doctor Who story using David Bradley.
I remember that David Bradley died some years back but i can be wrong
2047 is when the copyright expires. All we need to dp is not end the world before then
@@The1cheesecake David Bradley is still very much alive, and long may it continue!
fuck no!!! his take on the 1st Doctor is fucking offensive
We can always advise people to watch "An Adventure In Space And Time" for suplemental info on the Hartnell years (fortunately that exists).
An Unearthly Child may well be groundbreaking and historic but the story really isn't that good, regardless of what Step Coburn might believe. What cemented Doctor Who's success was the next story, by Terry Nation, who introduced the world to the Daleks. This was a genius move despite the BBC not wanting the show to be filled with Bug Eyed Monsters. When the public at large think about the show, they mention Daleks and Cybermen, perhaps even the Master, giant maggots or Weeping Angels. Certainly the public doesn't recall cavemen and The Tribe of Gum. Step Coburn is trying to benefit from someone else's effort and talent and so far this ploy has backfired. He was offered £20k apparently, which many could only dream off but now he has nothing and the BBC has proved they can manage without these four episodes. No doubt the BBC will have consulted with their IP lawyers and will attempt to find a legal loophole- Anthony Coburn was a salaried employee of the BBC in 1963- or they might leave their cash offer on the table, waiting for Coburn jnr to run out of cash..?
No one ever seem mention Dr Who feature film has Peter Cushing playing role. Nor he was fighting Daleks in that movie. Is that not considered part Dr Who cannon?
@@paulhunter6742the two Dr Who movies from the 60's were adaptations of TV stories but were not made by the BBC. Although some Dalek props were loaned apparently, to fill out the army. Cushing played a decidedly human character who, if I recall, referred to himself as Dr Who. Bernard Cribbins and Roy Castle were already established names and drafted in to portray the action hero and/or comic relief character, depending on your point of view. Whether they are considered canon is largely up to the individual but the BBC does not own the rights to them. I think they're great and you've reminded me it's about time to rewatch both!
There are no loopholes. This system was designed to purposely make it so expensive to show repeats that it'd be cheaper to make new shows instead. The trade unions made sure they got things watertight and no writer or actor has ever lost control of their copyright to the best of my knowledge.
@@DS9TREK I would agree except in 1963 the BBC had a single tv channel; repeats weren't a necessity in order to fill the schedules and save money.
It was the Tory government of about 1959 who, wanting to make production costs for the BBC cheaper, brought in the giving of rights to stakeholders, because repeats back then were seen as a negative. Certain rights holders have always held out, as happened for other programmes made. The BBC series of Jean Paul Sartre’s Roads to Freedom novels has a history of rights holders not allowing showings. It recently had a showing on BBC4, which was the first since the 70s on tv. The programmes have no permission to be released on dvd or blu ray, despite it being a very highly rated series with some demand for release. I’d give my eye teeth for a physical release, but it probably won’t occur in my lifetime, if ever. Some people just don’t want their artistry seen. Sad.
Usually when it comes to stuff like this, defending the legacy of a beloved creation is encouraging and it's enlightening to give greedy corporations a middle finger for mishandling whoever created it in the first place. In the case of An Unearthly Child, it seems as if Stef indirectly pulls a middle finger on the majority of Whovians but his father's legacy as well.
Coburn, though, wasn't a sole creator, and he didn't even come up with the original idea. He was just asked to write a story to start the series with, even if he did inject some elements of his own.
Not " for the money" ? Yes, right!
It is ALWAYS for the money.
Worst thing about relying on streaming is that someone else can pull it from under you.
Solid physical media ? Its on your shelf for whenever you want it.
"Lets see how much they want them - but its not for the money" -.-
judging by his tweets and clear childish behaviour it seems he has nothin substantial or better going on in his life and this is his only claim to anything is that his dad cowrote 1 story for doctor who 60 years ago
Basically, some money grabbing scumbag who had LITERALLY NOTHING to do with the creation of the first 4 episodes is trying to blackmail the BBC AND Doctor Who fans so they can make some money!
Good to know!
Not right at all!
If he really cared about his father's legacy, why wipe it and make it inaccessible? Total saddo!
who wipes it? Noone. All he does is denying the BBC to broadcast it. As bad and stupid that is.
Didn't wipe anything, it's still very much around. Just killed a distribution deal he wasnt happy with. Happens all the time. Corporations tend to walk all over people because they're too powerful to stop. So many examples of this in recent creative history, it's absolutely disgusting. Disney not paying the writers of the Star Wars novels their owed royalties, DC ripping off their talent, not paying them royalties, even outright stealing IP from them in spite of signed contracts, it goes on and on in this industry.
I do not condone piracy but thank god it exists
Most people of this generation never seen Classic Dr Who episodes. Seems unfair to deprive them of pleasure. Also BBC did very little to preserve Classic episodes. Hence episodes were totally lost or incomplete. I like how animators are reconstructing those lost episodes
yeah a lot of those missing episodes had to be recreated using b roll fim, on set photography, storyboard images and animation. I have some of those episodes, they are a bit odd to watch, but at least you get to see something, rather than just listening to the audio.
I think it's sad. I have tweeted him, saying Vengeance solves nothing. I always on the anniversary watch An Unearthly Child. Just the first episode, which I think still stands out today. Delighted you got to see it Elle.
They can do what they want, I have every episode of Doctor Who, Sarah Jane, Torchwood, et-al on DVD including BOTH versions of Unearthy child, and the reconstructions of the missing episodes.
So yeah, they can include, exclude or alter anything they like and I will be completely unaffected.
The same holds true for a LOT of hard core old school "Who" fans,
Ultimately it's the collectors and the true fans of the Doctor that will keep this material from ever being lost again.
WE are the great librarians, keeping the legacy alive.
yess *high5*
what amount of data are the 26 seasons of classic who for you? Mine are 200GB. While I am (slowly) watching through these, I also collect subtitles for them aswell.
But what two versions do you mean of unearthly child?
@@bernds6587 You didn't know?
The week the Doctor Who pilot went out was also the week of the JFK Funeral, and viewership was WAY down, and so it was decided to rebroadcast.
Some say they took the opportunity to re-shoot, others say the show went out live [which I'm dubious of] and as a result the whole of "An Unearthly Child' was shot TWICE, and the canonical version is the second recording.
I have BOTH versions.
There are differences between the two, in terms of dialogue and staging, but ALSO in general performances, in the first version The Doctor was even less kindly, and Susan gave an air of being genuinely afraid of her Grandfather and what he might do.
Prior to this there were five reshoots of the Pilot [simply titled "The Pilot"] used to pitch the series, where various aspects of the show were altered BEFORE the final version was shot and broadcast.
Note the script was not re-shot in it's entirety, for the pitch version, but various scenes were altered and tested before the final shoot.The DIFFERENCE between these five re-shoots and the two first episodes is that BOTH of the first episodes were broadcast.
@@Voodoomaria Interesting, I did not know that re-broadcast with changes.
From recording to broadcast was about a month from what wikipedia says.
I suppose they did not stick to the script in a very accurate matter, and were interpreting a lot. Only slightly relevant to the pilot, but near the end of the first doctor, Mr. Hartness had a hard time remembering his lines, though, so I suppose they took what they could get
@@bernds6587 I've been a "Who" fan since my early teens, my introduction was rerun episodes if the Third Doctor, Jon Pertwee.
I think it's a better franchise than Star Trek or Star Wars.
@@Voodoomariamy introduction was with season 2 of the reboot. A friend of mine told me, if I like Scifi and also funny, I could try that..
Well, to this day I love David Tennant, and I began rewatching classic Who aswell. Currently paused somewhere around series 16, and until now my favourite Doctor is Three.
copyright laws are broken and do not serve the purpose they were intended to
Back in the day it was a collaborative effort for a script to be written, i think this guy is an arse for what he's doing
Im just so frustrated, of all years and at this specific time smacks of bitterness to me. I just feel sorry for Whovians who will miss out on seeing the first episode of our beloved show on the iplayer.
Enemy of the BBC = Ian Levine. That's who Stef Coburn is refering to.
Rumour has it Ian Levine has a number of lost episodes in his collection but is refusing to release them because he's waiting for what he calls "the right price"
@@adelucas4824 It's a rumour that has no basis in anything. Levine is an... interesting character, and it's true he has held missing episodes in the past, but they were only there if needed to negotiate for *other* missing episodes.
He certainly would never keep missing episodes from the BBC
Weird to not mention that one of Stef Coburns main motivation for this was his bigoted views on Ncuti's casting, lets not give him any undue credit and call the guy what he is- a racist
McCoy was the final Doctor. I don't consider 2005+ to be genuine Who. It's different show.
I'm a little surprised by this seeing as they showed these 4 episodes on the BBC around the time of the 50th.
Personally I only enjoyed the first episode and the other 3 were pretty boring, but it is a part of a very crucial legacy that people need to see (especially in my opinion the very first part)
I hate to say it, but if he owns the rights he owns the rights. He can do whatever he likes with them.
"Blink" may be my all-time favorite "Doctor Who" story, but "An Unearthly Child"-that very first episode, not the whole story-is still my favorite single episode. As great as the show is, it's never quite had a single twenty-five minute block as well-made as this one. I am so glad I own the DVD, just in case this never gets resolved and the Season 1 blu-ray set ends up being one key story short.
Yeah, I pretty much always skip the caveman stuff and go straight to Skaro.
Yes I agree with that 👍
"I'm not greedy, I just want more money for something I was nothing to do with creating".
This is very sad news, I have seen some of the sons tweets and they are well... Not nice t out politely. He says he has nothing against the fans then in other tweets telling them to eff off. Then there the apparent comments about ncuti & jinx which I haven't seen but I'm told are not nice at all. Also why now? His father passed away in 1977 why wait all this time?
The thing with the daleks is its a 7 episode slog fest, starts well and ends well but the middle just goes on & on. I would watch the Peter Cushing movie instead, the pacing and condensed story are better.
It’s not the biggest collection in one place. My Mac in the other room has everything including Scream of the Shalka, The Curse of Fatal Death, audio of the lost episodes, Shada, BFA, and the 1996 movie.
YOU can’t see ‘em but they’re still in one place.
It is very sad. The man is very unwell but his views are contemptible as well as his alleged plan to bequeath all rights and paperwork to the Russian Federation in the event of his death. Think he's best ignored as all he wants is attention and to cause upset.
We deliberately didn't mention him by name in this video because agreed, the less attention he gets the better.
I have disagree Harry, although I do get where you're coming from.
I am old enough to have lived through the hiatus years (notice how I made it sound like I had lived through a war - way things are going in Gaza, that may turn out to be VERY ironic choice of words) and I am familiar with how greedy the BBC are. I suspect, based on their behaviour in the past, and his own words, the BBC tried to offer him a piss poor sum for the use of episodes he holds the copyright.
Bare in mind, this is the same BBC who have proven how little respect they have for Doctor Who and there's plenty of evidence that same snobbery has been aimed at writers, producers and even owners of copyright (from countless interviews in DWM and elsewhere).
So, while he is unfairly denying Doctor Who fans the chance to see the PERFECT first ever episodes ("Unearthly Child" is a masterclass of TV), I can understand his position.
THERE IS two sides to this.
The BBC's own treatment of Doctor Who is both moronic and VERY unprofessional.
As for the Russian Federation? I seem to recall reading in DWM that more than one writer or person involved in making Doctor Who or TV (60s and 70s) were members or supporters of communism.
I think Russians as people have been demonised enough recently. The whole point of "Unearthly Child" is that the Doctor and Susan are immigrants. And, they see the 20th Century school teachers as primitives.
In that sense, the story was DECADES ahead of the times (time machine or not).
Plus, these episodes are special to Antony's Son. It's more than money. A pathetic offer to him would've been seen as a slight against his Father's memory.
Always two sides to everyone.
Peace and love,
David
@@davidaston5773 He wasn't offered a piss poor sum, The BBC offered him 20k to license the episodes but he turned it down and wanted more.
@@davidaston5773Yeah, no. Sorry.
You're not wrong about the Beeb, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I feel any kind of sympathy or righteous indignation on behalf of a racist, fascist, queer-hating scumbag; a man who - by his own admission - takes some satisfaction in the medical misfortune of his own estranged family members because he believes it proves his ridiculous antivax shyte. So spare me this "special to him" business.
There may be two sides, but it certainly isn't a 50/50 situation on where any normal person's sympathies should lie.
@davidaston5773 the guy is a raving nutjob who's been disowned by every surviving member of his family. When his own son died he complained that the person who told him (again because his son walked away from him) hung up when he went on an antivax rant.
He's also a holocaust denier, pro-nazi...
He's a scumbag who makes other scumbags look like good people.
I understand feeling you late relative did more for them than they are prepared to display. But totally killing his legacy is not the way to go.
Which is why he encourages people to share their DVDs, passing them on to other fans.
Does he own episode 1 as well or just the three following episodes? I was under the impression episode 1 was written by someone else and tweaked at the end to lead into the cavemen story. If he doesn't then just show episode 1. That's the good part of the story, the rest is actually quite dull. It really took off with the Daleks in the next story.
While an early draft was indeed written by CE Weber, it was completed (and solely credited to) by Coburn, and he is considered the sole writer of the episode, legally speaking
Makes me glad I have a DVD that has the first three DW stories, and what's left of Marco Polo.
My worries distribution wise is with the remastered Collection series. The idea that Season 1 isn’t going to include them when the concept was it containing every available episode (and animations etc being created to filled the gaps), is a worry. Hopefully there’s a contractual scenario where that boxset has already been agreed to.
I should imagine Stef will have become metabolically impaired by the time they get round to the Season 1 bluray.
@@TheValeyard92even then he appears to have legally organised it that an “enemy of the BBC” gains the rights if anything happens to him…
Step 1: Coburn holds out for more money and the streamable Who collection is incomplete.
Step 2: More fans download all of Who illegally instead and neither he nor the BBC get cash or views....
Step 3: Coburn and BBC both blame the fans for them not getting their cash/views
Actually Dr Who is deviating from storytelling and being used to promote ideas and characters that are not for a family audience anymore. You will find more writers and owners of copyright will remove their rights from the catalogue also.
What do you base that on? That sounds bloomin' fantastic to my ears.
What sort of ideas and characters
@@ethandalton6480That's a rhetorical question right?
RUclips would just censor any frank and honest response.
@@dazjackson1972 I suppose it is a rhetorical question, yes, because we all know what OP is implying, it would have just been interesting to see if they'd actually put it into words.
Judging by OPs post, any frank and honest response would likely be filled with bigotry, and as I imagine RUclips aren't that keen on that stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if it was censored.
@@ethandalton6480 Until the people controlling the discourse have a change of heart or are replaced by a new lot, who decide which opinions will be acceptable moving forward.
The guy is cutting off his nose to spite his face - ultimately, what is he winning? Nothing really except for condemnation from the fans. What a sad, bitter little man.
One does hope that the BBC still preserves the original footage / negatives / audio tracks for these four, and waits until May 2047. At which point "An Unearthly Child" should be well within the public domain, and Anthony Coburn's estate will lose all claim to the story.
The BBC have released An Unearthly Child several times. It's definitely in their archives.
The contention, such as there is, is purely with the rights to the script. Nobody has spirited away the film cans, nor any digital files that were made.
And even unofficially, anyone with the dvd or vhs could rip it and proliferate it over the Internet if they so chose.
In spite of what the Nazi filth does, it won't get properly lost.
1st of January 2048. UK law says copyright continues to the end of the year.
well they're hardly going to destroy anything. They just can't commercially exploit it
"it's not about the money."
Press X to doubt.
I think the unaired pilot was better than the reshoot of part 1 of An Unearthly Child. Among the few changes, The Doctor was a little more cranky. I know Hartnell thought it went too far, and no offense to his view of his character, but it made sense to me being that he and Susan had just recently been exiled from their home planet and ostracized by their entire race. Dealing with the traumatic emotions of that would certainly make me really irritable. Plus, it would have made his eventual warming up to Ian and Barbara even bigger character growth.
I know Carole Ann Ford was upset with the changes to her character, and she was subsequently totally wasted for a year.
Admittedly there were other legitmate issues with the original recording, namely the fact that the TARDIS doors wouldn't close properly
Not a problem for those of us who sail the seas…. Not that I would endorse that if it was actually available
It is. You should.
The guy is seriously disillusioned he was offered a seriously good deal especially considering he had zeeo part in the actual work. And also he's deluded about the work his father actually did, his father did not name the TARDIS, he was working for hire from a synopsis provided by the creative, he didn't just turn up a spec script. Also the son should have just been laughed out of court for his seriously dodgy political opinions.
So what deal was he offered?
@@davidjarkeld2333 apparently he was offered something close to or above the average annual income in UK so somewhere in the region of £28000 which is a fair price for something he did absolutely zero work for. He claims he's doing it for justice for his dead father who allegedly he had a bad relationship with so I would say he was just looking for a payday rather than any altruistic cause.
I don't really want to defend him but while £28K seems like a lot, it is very small compared the the actual value of the copyright and the potential earning capacity of the product in question. I don't think anyone would have taken that offer. As for him doing nothing to earn it, that could be applied to all forms of inheritance. Just because he didn't create something it doesn't reduce the value of an item in his possession.
@@davidjarkeld2333 an item that his father was paid for and that he only did as work for hire, he didn't have a guaranteed income for it once he had done the work, his father had agreed to the initial deal and neither he nor the BBC could have foreseen the importance of the work. If he was concerned at all about his father's work being properly regarded, he wouldn't want it to be removed from the historic place it represents. Also he has stated that he is doing this for "vengeance" against the BBC and openly posted that he thinks his dad would have hated what they have done with the character
@@TimHornenothorny Yes his father got paid, and the BBC has already earned that fee back many times over from that work. His father also negotiated to retain copyright which is always good business. Lack of forsight by those comissioning the work is their problem not his. Retaining copyright can actually guarentee an income with royalties paid on the use of a work. The son's motives or dodgy politics are not the question here. You're right when you say this is a significant historic piece of work, but from what you have said it seems more like the BBC are undervaluing it and not the son.
As I have the entire realeases on DVD/BluRay does that mean I actually have the biggest ever collection of Doctor Who in one place ... Sorry BBC lol
Very good video about a very odd situation. Thankfully these episodes exist in a variety of formats for future generations.
Luckily I own over 600 episodes of DW so I don't care about iplayer LOL
Let's be realistic it's only Episode 1 of the unearthly child which is of any interest and what fandom mostly talk about. As for the rest of the story - no great loss..
And this is, kids, why we, even if you lower your sails, you still have ready oars (paddles) for your boats. The flag is always high and proud...
When I heard that they were putting all the stuff on bbc iplayer, I was so hyped because I've never seen the classic episodes before(I know about the lost episodes). Was also hyped to watch where it all started. Hearing that the first 4 episodes won't be on there is just heartbreaking. Starting watching a series not from episode 1 just feels so weird. :(
I might go hunting for dvds in this case, to be honest.
a lot are available from "other" download sources. Some of the recreated missing episodes are only available via torrent downloading.
@@Nobby76 I've already found a 3 dvd disk box containing The Unearthly Child, The Daleks and The Edge of Destruction on Amazon so I bought it. Currently waiting for it to arrive so the crisis of not being able to see it has been averted lol. If I couldn't find any, I would've looked at the "other" sources, ye.
Just buy the DVDs, don't go 'hunting for them'.
Enthusiasts do this as soon as they are released.
Why let the authorities decide what you can watch, and when?
@@tooleyheadbang4239 I call it "hunting for them", doesn't mean I'm actually hunting in the enthusiast manner. By hunting I mean that I'm looking then buying if I can find something and if you read what I said to the other person, you'd know I already found it.
this is a very softball video, i watched this not knowing the situation and nearly ended up siding with the son, but the i went and actually researched whats been happening, the son is a psychopath who doesn't deserve a cent. Pirate the unearthly child and don't feel and about it.
Legally I doubt this will happen. Precedence is on the BBCs side. Also the courts might completely side with the BBC.
Hope they do againsed the racists
@@damienrevell7544I usually don’t like to jump straight to calling people racist, but considering how much of an issue he has with Ncuti’s casting yeah I’d say that’s pretty spot on
Personally, I’ve not seen him in anything but if RTD can give him good writing and good direction then he’ll hopefully make a good doctor, maybe the show can pick itself up after the god awful Chibnall era
@@lonewolf9578 We have to be very careful not to allow racists to convince us that the term is meaningless. Yes, it can be thrown around a little too easily, but there are plenty of genuine racists out there and in this case it's not a close call.
@@chrispalmer7893 it’s more so that people accuse people of being racist even when they didn’t actually do anything racist
It dilutes the word and makes people take actual accusations less seriously
@@lonewolf9578 Yes, that’s deeply unhelpful, but also, I suspect, much less common than claimed. As with any label, care should be taken that it is applied fairly and accurately.
Sorry, but how incredibly petty the writer's son sounds, going as far as to bequeath it to 'the enemy of the BBC'.
You don't need to worry about them becoming 'Lost Episodes" they've been on the internet so that will literally NEVER happen at this point.
And, the BBC surely won't delete the epidoes. They "just" don't have the rights to broadcast them, not to own them.
This is very much a genie that has been out of the bottle for a long time. I suspect that's part of this guy's rage - he knows that millions of us already have these episodes by one means or other. He's not hurting the BBC, he's not hurting those of us who have them, he's just preventing his father's work from being seen by new people. I'm sure Daddy would've been so proud of him...
It’s disgusting, they wanted to delete the first Doctor for years now, I recently bought the 1st doctor collection & listening to the commentary disrespectful talk about William Hartnell I was shocked. I wanted to celebrate the his character instead he got abused
Disgusting
One thing that makes me laugh (if rather bitterly) is that if this guy weren't such an idiot and didn't openly post bigotted stuff on the interent, I think he could garner some more sympathy for his cause. As it is all he's doing is pissing people off and seemingly delighted in doing so, which of course infuriates people all the more. It's a kind of sick feedback loop, and he's the feeder.
Physical Media is important, ladies and gentlemen. This is why.
Also can we talk about how Stef Coburn's biggest problem with the BBC and Doctor Who is that they cast a queer black man as the doctor?
Another argument for ensuring you have your favourite shows on physical media.
Screw this guy. They should just release it anyway. It doesn't sound like he has any real claim; all i hear about is his stupid rants on twitter or whatever. I guess the BBC must be afraid of something, and I suppose they couldn't just "take the hit" if there were legal repercussions in the future, but there were never any issues with past releases, novelisations, other representations of this story -- I think they have a good precedent to just go ahead with it regardless of what he says, though admittedly I'm no lawyer. Would be nice if they just had some "balls" and ignored him.
Of course I've seen this story many times and have a copy of it around here somewhere, and it's not really "disappearing"....but still this is a kind of gatekeeping that shouldn't be tolerated.
Of course he has a real claim. He legally owns the copyright to his dad's script. It's that simple. In all past releases Mr Coburn and BBC managed to agree a price that made both happy, but in this case they can't. That doesn't mean the BBC can act above the law. He'd sue and win.
I have every available episode on physical media up until the show destroying Chris Chibnall and Jodie Whittaker era. So 1963 - 2017 is no concern for me personally. As for 2017 onwards... I don't care. The show is dead as far as I'm concerned.
Same here!
I don't want to make this thread political but this guy who is refusing to let the Beeb air the first four episodes is a real piece of work. He has made anti-LGBTQ, racist and like islamophobic as well. He's a modern day Archie Bunker on with out the Humanity. I watched a video on this very topic and Mr. Tardis reviewed his sorted history. He posted hateful Rhetoric when Chute Gatwa was cast as the Doctor. He didn't like the fact that Jinx Monsoon was cast as a villian in the upcoming season. Mr. Tardis basically concluded this guy Grifter in part becuase this guy went is currently trying to sell a copy of an UnEArthly Child, which called The Tribe of Gumms,, on EBAY for $500. IT's a grift. He is a grifter.
Who is Achie Bunker?
@@johnp8131 A character from the old US tv series All In The Family. He was a bigoted, hateful character that was played as a stereotype of the older generations during the 1970s.
@@johnp8131 Archie Bunker was a television character on a Sit Com called All in the Family, which was based of the British Sitcom Til Death Do Us Part. He is a conservative working class guy from Queens who's married to Edith and their Daughter Gloria is married to Liberal Anti-War Activist Mike Stivic, who Archie refers to as Meathead in part because of his receeding hair line. Much of the Humor was derived from Archie arguing with Meathead over politics with Archie Being exposed, multiple times, as something of a Bigot becuase he didn't like the anti-war movement, this was during Vietnam, he hated the Civil Rights movement and he wasn't too keen on LGBTQI rights although there was a recurring Character who was a Drag Queen, whom archie accepts and the family loves.
When I was a kid, back in the 1670's, this was the Number one Show on Television here in the states. It was so successful that it spawned two Spinoffs, Maude about Archies Liberal Sister In Law and the Jefferson's about Archie's african american Neighbors, George and Weezie, who move on up to a DeLux Apartment in Manhatten. Maude spawned it's own spin-off Good Time, Starring EsterRolle Jimmy Walker. The Jeffersons also ended up running longer than All in the Family.
@@johnp8131the American version of Alf Garnet from "Till death do us part" and "In sickness and in health"
@@josephcooter5763 Wow... the 1670's what a time to be alive, you must be ancient
To be faithful to the very iconic and original "DOCTOR WHO", any television series which purports to be a faithful continuation of the original "DOCTOR WHO" should only consider White Male actors for the role of Doctor Who.
Be respectful, and don’t conflate the iconic and original "DOCTOR WHO" with unfaithful re-imaginings of the Classic "DOCTOR WHO".
It's more of a Pride parody spin-off really.
This man should know better than to mess with an entire community of fans who'll go above and beyond to protect Doctor Who.
Let's all hope this waste of oxygen is dealt with soon enough.
"Ellie you dumb, you dumb!" 😅
Side note, there's some amazing classic Who episodes in BW.
This past week Coburn has made my blood boil. His desires are for monetary gain and he’s made racist and transphobic remarks. I pray the UC remains temporarily off iPlayer while the BBC find a way to get around this.
And not that this is ideal, but he can keep the god awful caveman episodes if we can just get episode 1 back
The caveman episodes were Coburn's work anyway. The first episode was largely written by CE Webber, with Coburn making some minor tweaks to the script so that it would segué into the opening of "The Tribe of Gum".
That's why he's always calling it The Tribe of Gum..that's the part Coburn mostly did.
That said I like it myself. It's an auspicious beginning to this longgrunning and fascinating series. is it the best Who story ever? Not at all. But it's still a pretty cool piece of television.@@ftumschk
@@DamnableReverend Agreed. It's pretty middling compared to the best of Who, but it's pretty decent nonetheless.
There are definitely Who stories I like a lot less. besides, there are moments in the Tribe story that I really like, such as the leader starting to develop a kind of understanding of the as-yet alien concept of friendship, and hartnell's Doctor really having a few awesome and persuasive scenes.
@@ftumschk
I've read in a few places this may be anger towards Ncuti's casting
If true then his a racist homphobe
On a lighter note, I have an idea for a future video. Whenever I watch episodes, I tend to go 'Clara-spotting'. Maybe you would do a video about which characters could be duplicates of Clara.
I personally believe that Dodo Chaplet and Gwen Cooper were Claras.
Great idea!
Does that include Gwenyth from unquiet dead as well? Cuz that’s an interesting explanation
@@Zach90888 It does.
I bet the sales of the unearthly child dvd will probably go through the roof
As a Canadian, the idea that people watch Doctor Who on anything other than DVD is strange to me.
Sorry but the writer son is a hypocrite. Of course it's about the money because if it isn't whats the argument? It's especially galling as the copyright protection will expiry in 2047, 70 years after the creators death. With only 24 years left the properties value will diminish the nearer the expiration dates gets. The son is clearly trying to cash in before it enters the public domain, as to bequeathing it to an 'enemy' of the BBC presumably one of the commercial TV companies assuming the son's in good health they may get just as it loses any value due to its being in the public domain.
I think enemy of the BBC means Ian Lavine
The first episode and the original Theme music are classic points in time. Why are they not in the public domain for all to enjoy?
It is sad. The first episode is perhaps the most logical and factual introduction to the Doctor. An alien hiding in a junk yard while his niece studies abroad in a British high school.
I'm glad you watched the episode and hope you catch the 4th doctor, Tom Baker series. Yes "The Talons of Wang Chen" (?) is problematic today because we have progressed. It is still a good story.
Lets hope more Dr. Who is put in the public domain for all to enjoy, kind of like the other Englishman Shakespear.
I don't know how it works in the UK but in the US the thing that is entering the public domain has to have been created more than 75 years ago or something like that.
Can't do that you'd have to wait another 40 years unless this toss pot renews the copyrights.
@@PatLund70 years after death, 2047 isn't that far away.
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195he died April 1977 it goes public 2047
@@wodmarach the copyrights themselves are approaching sixty years old thusly 40 more years after the sixtieth unless the current holder shitbox renews those copyrights into public domain they go.
My hunband, who doesn't watch Doctor Who, and hears Whoculture from across the room, told me this guy should know better than to mess with Ellie Littlechild
You wouldn’t like her when she’s angry 😡
I feel sorry for people who don't own it and especially for the people who need Audio Description or Sign Language.
And I feel extra sorry for Mr Hussein who has no other surviving episodes but with this man's opinions of not white LGBTQIA+ people it's probably a bonus for him to spite him.
I also can't believe that he is acting like them giving literally the maximum amount of money is a pittance while complaining that Lineker gets paid too much while he wants them to break the rules to pay him for being born and produce a TV show with him being in control when they already rejected it when it was pitched by his dad who at least was a writer unlike him.
To be honest parts 2-4 with the cavemen are nothing much to write home about.
I hope they do the same for Disney Plus
Actually, the Daleks made Doctor Who...
I wonder if they could get around it by playing An Adventure In Space and Time. Now obviously this will give spoilers for anyone who hasn’t seen Hartnell’s era but at the same time it will show (in a round about way) the early scenes of the meeting, the Tardis console that kind of thing even if it’s in a 4th wall kind of way.
I think what Coburn is doing is seriously insane. It’s all about the money, it has nothing to do with his dad or his legacy and definitely doesn’t care about the fans. He wants the money and that’s the long and short of it.
Copyright lasts way too long. The author at the episodes is dead, the actor who played the doctor is dead, the showrunner is dead, the composer of the music is dead. None of the people arguing over this inheritance were involved in its production. And yet zombie copyright lurches on...
The director is still alive, though
still, I agree. Copyright is still far too long. Even life+50 years seems pushing it