The solution for pressure control surely has to be an air reservoir with a regulator; use the bike pump to fill the reservoir (for instance a bicycle inner tube 😉) and the regulator to control pressure. It's how airbrushes work after all. Using a bike pump for this is doing the opposite of what's needed for espresso as bike pumps are high air volume devices that go to typically 150 psi, espresso needs a maximum of 20 psi and fairly low volumes. You can see this by how short a time you run the pump for in the demo. I wonder whether the valve could be used for pressure regulation instead of just a hard stop.
The X Bar seemed to have a bit more control in this regard with the paddle design to control pressure, but that one only worked with the CO2 cartridges and not the pump, so probably not that straightforward. But must admit this is above my pay grade.
@@coffeechronicler With the XBar, the CO₂ canister was essentially an overpressure reservoir that (presumably, as I have no knowledge of the product) used the paddle to regulate the supply. I suspect that there would be other issues, related to decompressing from a small, high-pressure reservoir (volumes and temperature primarily)
@@foulchild darn! you're right, I wrote "psi" when I should have written "bar". my bad. Hmmm… now my physics fails me: using a high volume (flow rate?) air pump to drive the water pressure Vs a low volume water pump to do the same. /scratches head/
Thank you for this review! Is there a membrane between the air from the compressor and the hot water, or get they in contact. My thought is, that if there is direct contact, odors or fat from the compressor will pass into the brewing water.
Thanks for the review, very interesting device! Please try with a CO2 cartridge, you will have much better pressure control and pressure stability. If you fill the chamber almost fully with hot water, you will need very small dosages of CO2, probably making around 10 shots per cartridge. There are also larger cartridges, which minimizes a bit the garbage issue.
I have received mine 2 month ago and the results are good for mixed. From one hand, it can actually produce tasty shots even without preheating. Sometimes it was starting to act a little weird with big bubbles and hiss from the portafilter with no visible reason. Same puck prep next time and turns out good. But...after 1 month of usage they've sent a letter asking to stop using the device due to a portafilter design flaw. They never stated the details and what it can cause and I was kinda ignoring this. Don't get me wrong, this is a full metal peace that feels solid so I haven't expected anything wild to happen and luckily it never had. But then the next letter reached me saying there were explosion reports and it is extremely dangerous to use the machine. Well...now we're talking XDD. They are promising to deliver a new portafilter in february, will update you guys! Still think the product has great potential and...stay safe!
Great video. Just pre-ordered based on your video. It looks fun and interesting. Was thinking about a Robot or a Flair 58, but decieded to try this out instead. Plus great price point if you pre-order.
I just received one of these today!! Maestri House sent me one to check out and test as well. The new puck screen design has a silicone sleeve that keeps the water from making direct contact with the portafilter which really seems to help with thermal stability. The metal doesn't directly touch the water now so it doesn't pull much heat from it. I still think preheating is a good idea but this makes it less of a concern. It also helps keep the water from making contact with the coffee before you start brewing like you mentioned. I do wish the air pump had more control or maybe a hold feature for those who like consistent pressure shots. I like declining pressure shots though so that actually doesn't bother me too much. Great video on this my friend!!
Some people might like the all stainless steel version for the simple reason that the silicon might still transfer something like a BPA.@@coffeechronicler
I like this because I am mountain biker and like that i can dual purpose bike pump. Can it work with a regular ( non electric) bike pump i wonder? Probably needs different valve to control pressure or storage tank. Might work with some pumps that build up pressure for poping a tubeless tire in place? Of course that would make it less portable hmm
It's worth playing around with, especially at lower pressure. At 7-9 bars you get increasingly higher flow as the puck disintegrates, and you have less water on top of the screen. So I guess it's the same reason that people intuitively ease down on flow/pressure with manual machines.
Thanks for making this review. I saw this product pop up the other day, and it also reminded me of the Xbar. It looked cool, but again, no reviews (until now), so didn't know about backing/pre-ordering. I love the fact of the WDT in the handle; How cool is that?!?! Also, like how it comes with a stand. Picopresso never had one until just recently, so its just nice that the designers thought things through ahead of time. Also, very cool with how the built in pressure profiling seems fairly similar to manual spring lever machines (which tend to be highly loved by espresso enthusiasts). Also, really like how you can release the pressure; I'm assuming this mitigates "portafilter sneeze"???
Thanks Brent! I'm a bit biased due to my involvement, but no doubt that it's a more useful device than the X Bar. The pressure release valve does prevent sneezing and works as a stop button at the same time.
Thanks for your reply! Sounds pretty great. Also forgot to mention that I like how they are taking suggestions from you and constantly working on improving the design ; like the orientation of the tube, and shower screen thing. Seems like they want to produce a quality product and not just in for a cash grab. Do you know where the manufacturing/company is based??
As far as I know, most bicycle pumps may release tiny particles of piston, rubber ring, and lubricant. These components are usually not food safe, so I have some concerns about this type of product.
Actually there isn’t really such a thing as a “food grade pump” the fda guidelines restrict usage to a oil-free compressor, with some fine filters to actually filter out the particulate floating in the surrounding air. Pretty sure most conventional bike pumps are oil-free, and that’s the major requirement here.
@@foulchild No, most conventional bike pumps are not oil-free. They often use silicone lubricant, but some of them are not food-grade. This means that the lubricant may release toxins when the pump is operated. And those oil-free pumps may use polymers to reduce friction. However, it is difficult to say if the fragments released from the polymers are food-safe or not. Therefore, it is important to use a filter to remove those fragments.
everything with moving parts uses some sort of lubricant, oil-free simply means it is not a liquid form lubricant like oil, a gel is applied that sticks to the moving parts needing lubrication. I simply stated the food safe guide via the FDA for use on compressors in food safe handling conditions. There is 100% food safe lubricant that is used for instance in espresso machines for the application of o-rings. Due to the portable size of a bike compressor you can be absolutely sure that you’re 99% more likely to come across a oil-free compressor in a household electric bike pump over a oil-based compressor which are usually not used with portable small form-factor compressors. As for pistons, I think there are at least 3 different kinds of compressor pumps and only one of them uses a piston method. Doubtful that this is the method used in a electric bike pump. Google it if you don’t want to believe me. I did some research and was happy to share my results with you.
Hello from japan. Recently i'm watching your videos, and it's very interesting!! actually, i don't know stuff like that, but you got me interested in it.😁
@@djmeri00my road bike’s tires are supposed to be at 110 PSI, which is about 7.5 bar. So I would assume 9 bar would be easily achieved by my floor pump. I have a portable hand pump that can go to 90 PSI, which is about 6.2 bar, but takes real effort to get to that.
I@@coffeechronicler I tried a manual air pump with one of my self made espresso machines, and the alternating pressure build up, and de-pressurizing that happens a bit with each pump movement, can stir up the coffee puck and that is the end of your tasty espresso... The electric air pumps have a very high rpm compared to a manual pump, but sometimes I have witnessed the 'vibrations' irritating the puck a bit.
I'd love to see a similar solution with already integrated pump, it will be so small compared to the normal espresso machines. I don't mind filling the basket with coffee and water myself.
Just to share my experience as I received mine earlier this week. Took about 4-5 failed/mediocre shots to get the hang of it during my first usage session - overall was able to make some decent espresso once I got the hang of it. But when I went back to it the next time, the pressure release valve seems to have failed (worth noting the production valve has a plastic quick release) - constant air escaping when the pump is running and I can't get any pressure. Awaiting a response from their support, hoping the part is a one-off dud (or user error), but availability of replacement parts will inform the longevity of the product.
I am so close to liking this for when the power goes out. I dont like that you cant change baskets, puck screens etc but thats part of the design i guess.
In your opinion, has the maespresso58 solved the thermal loss problems of the picopresso? They have seemed to work on their basket technology continually in this regard? Maespresso or picopresso? It's so hard to decide.
This hybrid espresso has been made famous in thai coffee scene for years back. They made one with pressurized gas too. Should look them out, unfortunately no english text and translation on most of them.
On their website they claim that preheating is not needed. Have you tried brewing without preheating to see the difference? Or is it an exaggerated claim?
They are working on a special dispersion screen/insert in the basket that could possibly change it. But with the pre-production unit I'm using you'll definitely have to preheat.
I know a couple of maverick baristas in Asia are doing this, but wouldn't really call it common. And doesn't look like X Bar is going to ship any time soon, so this is probably your best bet ;)
Looks interesting, I would love to see more details about how one sets and controls the pressure! Thank you for your great videos.
Looks super cool!!!
Thanks for the review! Asser. The preheating part is very clever!
Classic Flair Pro technique ;) Thanks for trusting me with a unit.
The solution for pressure control surely has to be an air reservoir with a regulator; use the bike pump to fill the reservoir (for instance a bicycle inner tube 😉) and the regulator to control pressure. It's how airbrushes work after all. Using a bike pump for this is doing the opposite of what's needed for espresso as bike pumps are high air volume devices that go to typically 150 psi, espresso needs a maximum of 20 psi and fairly low volumes. You can see this by how short a time you run the pump for in the demo. I wonder whether the valve could be used for pressure regulation instead of just a hard stop.
The X Bar seemed to have a bit more control in this regard with the paddle design to control pressure, but that one only worked with the CO2 cartridges and not the pump, so probably not that straightforward. But must admit this is above my pay grade.
@@coffeechronicler With the XBar, the CO₂ canister was essentially an overpressure reservoir that (presumably, as I have no knowledge of the product) used the paddle to regulate the supply. I suspect that there would be other issues, related to decompressing from a small, high-pressure reservoir (volumes and temperature primarily)
It actually seems like it would be pretty easy to just add a regulator to it though.
9 Bars converts to 130.5 pSI
@@foulchild darn! you're right, I wrote "psi" when I should have written "bar". my bad. Hmmm… now my physics fails me: using a high volume (flow rate?) air pump to drive the water pressure Vs a low volume water pump to do the same. /scratches head/
Thank you for this review! Is there a membrane between the air from the compressor and the hot water, or get they in contact. My thought is, that if there is direct contact, odors or fat from the compressor will pass into the brewing water.
Cooooool! Would make a great addition to my biking kit! Espresso on the bike trail anyone? Lol yes!
Thanks for the review, very interesting device! Please try with a CO2 cartridge, you will have much better pressure control and pressure stability. If you fill the chamber almost fully with hot water, you will need very small dosages of CO2, probably making around 10 shots per cartridge. There are also larger cartridges, which minimizes a bit the garbage issue.
I have received mine 2 month ago and the results are good for mixed. From one hand, it can actually produce tasty shots even without preheating. Sometimes it was starting to act a little weird with big bubbles and hiss from the portafilter with no visible reason. Same puck prep next time and turns out good. But...after 1 month of usage they've sent a letter asking to stop using the device due to a portafilter design flaw. They never stated the details and what it can cause and I was kinda ignoring this. Don't get me wrong, this is a full metal peace that feels solid so I haven't expected anything wild to happen and luckily it never had. But then the next letter reached me saying there were explosion reports and it is extremely dangerous to use the machine. Well...now we're talking XDD. They are promising to deliver a new portafilter in february, will update you guys! Still think the product has great potential and...stay safe!
I received mine also. I haven’t unboxed it yet. I also got the notification about the safety issue and a $50 credit.
Any updates on this?
@@MW-df2fm nope...no updates from them, february has passed, good that you reminded, will write them an email
Great video. Just pre-ordered based on your video. It looks fun and interesting. Was thinking about a Robot or a Flair 58, but decieded to try this out instead. Plus great price point if you pre-order.
Thanks Anthony, hope you have fun with it!
I just received one of these today!! Maestri House sent me one to check out and test as well. The new puck screen design has a silicone sleeve that keeps the water from making direct contact with the portafilter which really seems to help with thermal stability. The metal doesn't directly touch the water now so it doesn't pull much heat from it. I still think preheating is a good idea but this makes it less of a concern. It also helps keep the water from making contact with the coffee before you start brewing like you mentioned. I do wish the air pump had more control or maybe a hold feature for those who like consistent pressure shots. I like declining pressure shots though so that actually doesn't bother me too much. Great video on this my friend!!
Thanks Aaron. Yes, that new puck screen looks like a big help. Anything that can increase thermal stability is essential for these manual machines!
Some people might like the all stainless steel version for the simple reason that the silicon might still transfer something like a BPA.@@coffeechronicler
I like this because I am mountain biker and like that i can dual purpose bike pump. Can it work with a regular ( non electric) bike pump i wonder? Probably needs different valve to control pressure or storage tank. Might work with some pumps that build up pressure for poping a tubeless tire in place? Of course that would make it less portable hmm
Thanks for the review! Have you tried adjusting the pressure level on the pump? does it make sense to maintain the stable amount of pressure this way?
It's worth playing around with, especially at lower pressure. At 7-9 bars you get increasingly higher flow as the puck disintegrates, and you have less water on top of the screen. So I guess it's the same reason that people intuitively ease down on flow/pressure with manual machines.
thanks for the video. Is the coffee holder design similar to cafelat robot? is pre-heating really needed similar to the cafelat coffee cup holder?
Thanks for making this review. I saw this product pop up the other day, and it also reminded me of the Xbar. It looked cool, but again, no reviews (until now), so didn't know about backing/pre-ordering. I love the fact of the WDT in the handle; How cool is that?!?! Also, like how it comes with a stand. Picopresso never had one until just recently, so its just nice that the designers thought things through ahead of time. Also, very cool with how the built in pressure profiling seems fairly similar to manual spring lever machines (which tend to be highly loved by espresso enthusiasts). Also, really like how you can release the pressure; I'm assuming this mitigates "portafilter sneeze"???
Thanks Brent! I'm a bit biased due to my involvement, but no doubt that it's a more useful device than the X Bar.
The pressure release valve does prevent sneezing and works as a stop button at the same time.
Thanks for your reply!
Sounds pretty great.
Also forgot to mention that I like how they are taking suggestions from you and constantly working on improving the design ; like the orientation of the tube, and shower screen thing. Seems like they want to produce a quality product and not just in for a cash grab.
Do you know where the manufacturing/company is based??
@@brentroman Yes, think the small details and tweaking are a good sign. The company is US based with China production as far as I know.
Great to see Messi doing coffee reviews
As far as I know, most bicycle pumps may release tiny particles of piston, rubber ring, and lubricant. These components are usually not food safe, so I have some concerns about this type of product.
So, an electric air pump strictly used for installing cabinets would be the ideal product for you?!
@@maga6252 No, the ideal product is a food-safe pump or air compressor used in food and beverage manufacturing industries.
Actually there isn’t really such a thing as a “food grade pump” the fda guidelines restrict usage to a oil-free compressor, with some fine filters to actually filter out the particulate floating in the surrounding air. Pretty sure most conventional bike pumps are oil-free, and that’s the major requirement here.
@@foulchild No, most conventional bike pumps are not oil-free. They often use silicone lubricant, but some of them are not food-grade. This means that the lubricant may release toxins when the pump is operated. And those oil-free pumps may use polymers to reduce friction. However, it is difficult to say if the fragments released from the polymers are food-safe or not. Therefore, it is important to use a filter to remove those fragments.
everything with moving parts uses some sort of lubricant, oil-free simply means it is not a liquid form lubricant like oil, a gel is applied that sticks to the moving parts needing lubrication. I simply stated the food safe guide via the FDA for use on compressors in food safe handling conditions. There is 100% food safe lubricant that is used for instance in espresso machines for the application of o-rings. Due to the portable size of a bike compressor you can be absolutely sure that you’re 99% more likely to come across a oil-free compressor in a household electric bike pump over a oil-based compressor which are usually not used with portable small form-factor compressors. As for pistons, I think there are at least 3 different kinds of compressor pumps and only one of them uses a piston method. Doubtful that this is the method used in a electric bike pump. Google it if you don’t want to believe me. I did some research and was happy to share my results with you.
Hello from japan. Recently i'm watching your videos, and it's very interesting!!
actually, i don't know stuff like that, but you got me interested in it.😁
That's great to hear, thanks🙏
@@coffeechronicler
thanks for replying😊
I would love to see it in action with a manual air pump if the junctions allows it
Haven't tried that yet, but it should be possible to get a few bars with a bit of hard work!
Manual pumps for road bikes can give you even 10-12bar of pressure easily
@@djmeri00my road bike’s tires are supposed to be at 110 PSI, which is about 7.5 bar. So I would assume 9 bar would be easily achieved by my floor pump. I have a portable hand pump that can go to 90 PSI, which is about 6.2 bar, but takes real effort to get to that.
@@coreycannon4511 yes, I meant floor pumps. Once I've had a hand pump that could go beyond 7bar but it was a real excersise to achieve that :)
I@@coffeechronicler I tried a manual air pump with one of my self made espresso machines, and the alternating pressure build up, and de-pressurizing that happens a bit with each pump movement, can stir up the coffee puck and that is the end of your tasty espresso... The electric air pumps have a very high rpm compared to a manual pump, but sometimes I have witnessed the 'vibrations' irritating the puck a bit.
I'd love to see a similar solution with already integrated pump, it will be so small compared to the normal espresso machines. I don't mind filling the basket with coffee and water myself.
Well, then you might as well get a lever machine.
Just to share my experience as I received mine earlier this week. Took about 4-5 failed/mediocre shots to get the hang of it during my first usage session - overall was able to make some decent espresso once I got the hang of it.
But when I went back to it the next time, the pressure release valve seems to have failed (worth noting the production valve has a plastic quick release) - constant air escaping when the pump is running and I can't get any pressure.
Awaiting a response from their support, hoping the part is a one-off dud (or user error), but availability of replacement parts will inform the longevity of the product.
Sorry to hear that! Sounds like something that should be replaced under warranty.
I am so close to liking this for when the power goes out. I dont like that you cant change baskets, puck screens etc but thats part of the design i guess.
In your opinion, has the maespresso58 solved the thermal loss problems of the picopresso? They have seemed to work on their basket technology continually in this regard?
Maespresso or picopresso? It's so hard to decide.
This hybrid espresso has been made famous in thai coffee scene for years back. They made one with pressurized gas too. Should look them out, unfortunately no english text and translation on most of them.
How many PSI’s for 9 bars of pressure?
I’m wondering if the robot portafilter will work on this one.
It's a bit smaller and has 2 lugs vs 3 on this.
ok, this looks really fun. Given that I already have this pump, might just get it for the hell of it. xD
did exactly this lol
Hi !
Did you hear about a quite similar Korean device called 58espresso ?
What should you prefer between those two ?
Thanks
You can find information about it quite easily on the website.
They also have their RUclips channel…
Never tried it, so hard to say. But it appears to be tricky to preheat.
Please do a review of the DF64E/P and a comparison to the original df64
Planning to review the all-new revised DF64 that is set to be released in September.
This looks surprisingly sleek, huh?
I was one of the xbar baskets that never received our hard from the makers. This makes me feel like this is made by the same people
Actually it can make very good espresso
Sold out (
On their website they claim that preheating is not needed. Have you tried brewing without preheating to see the difference? Or is it an exaggerated claim?
They are working on a special dispersion screen/insert in the basket that could possibly change it. But with the pre-production unit I'm using you'll definitely have to preheat.
@@coffeechronicler Thanks for clarifying this!
Would you sell this?
For a long time people doing this... just check Staresso Mirage and the air pump cover mods
Or XBar...
I know a couple of maverick baristas in Asia are doing this, but wouldn't really call it common. And doesn't look like X Bar is going to ship any time soon, so this is probably your best bet ;)
This is really neat, but I think it is too far down the rabbit hole for me, lol.
Wait, this is not espresso forge