Fencing Gets Heated?! | Strasbourg 2022
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- Опубликовано: 26 фев 2022
- Shout out to Armand Rochet for filming!!!
So this was a weird match.... Matyas Szabo vs Sebastien Patrice at the 2022 Strasbourg U23 sabre
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I wanna say that @5:20 ish he speaks to his dad in Hungarian saying “what do I do, dad?” And his dad says “shake his hand and go” 😂
Ok so.
That ref was clearly not good enough (like missing the absolutely magnificent PIL or the counter parry at the end was inexcusable).
However, as a ref myself, I kinda understand. You need experience to become better, and you need to fail miserably (like this) to get this experience. Its completely unfair to the fencers, but that's the way it is. That being said, Szabo reaction was completely absurd.
Also, the french coach yelling "two attacks" was hilarious.
If you miss blatant calls like this you should be reffing at an ROC, not an international event.
FreeSzabo
Was it that absurd tho? I m nowhere near their level, but obviously i ve dealt with bad refs in some matches. And sometimes the ref not discerning between attack on prep and simultaneous frustrated the shit out of me. One of them was so bad that i ve seriously thought of starting a full on scream fight in the middle of the match. (Multiple people fencing that day complained about her reffing). I would probably go berserk if a ref missed multiple parry riposte and clear actions like that
@@ZhongXinabingchilling The anger was fully justified. The reaction of leaving the piste was absurd. That's incredibly poor sportsmanship.
Ive delt with bad refs (hell, Ive been a bad ref at some point !), but I never considered just... leaving. The ref is not good enough and you will probably loose because of their decisions ? Then bite the bullet, try to be the only light on as hard as you can, but continue the fight, out of respect for your opponent. And then go complain about the ref to whoever's in charge.
@@cptn_n3m012 it just happened that last weekend i had to deal with what i feared… believe me: I considered leaving the piste, but it was a team match and i couldn t do that to my teammates. The ref literally missed a beautiful circular parry riposte because he remained in the middle of the piste instead of following me and my opponent to the end, so he gave the point to my opponent even though it was a clear remise… and when i confronted him at the end and told him to make it less obvious when he s reffing in favour of one team he told me to bring my own ref next time…
Szabo haas every right to be angry. This is supposed to be France. The fencing capital of the world
Loving the work! This vid is great
Sorry, I know there are far more important things here but I can’t get over the fact that I swear some of the spectators/Women’s teams members are playing Minecraft.
noticed that too, thought it was hilarious
time stamps?
If a ref messes up on some tight calls in the box it's part of the game but to miss clear blade actions that are not only visible but audible, then something's wrong. That and the point in line he missed. Strange bout.
okay ngl i find it funny when the the france coach say Unplug yourself XD but yeah it seems like the ref had trouble keeping up but honestly also shouldn't there be a video also?
someone playing minecraft in the backround at 3:50 lol
The feeling of fencing with a bad ref is awful. While everyone says to just get a feel for the ref and use it to your advantage, sometimes you just can't and you have no chance of winning. It's the worst and it ruins the sport. I cant speak for outside of the US but at NACs there is a bad ref epidemic.
I’ve been reffed by people who have missed obvious actions before. Getting a clear cut parry riposte and the ref saying it was an uninterrupted attack despite hearing one clear blade action is the most confusing and infuriating thing in the world. That being said, it only ever happens with people who started fencing within the year. That counter parry and the Pris de Fere were clear enough that a blind ref could’ve called them
Dude can I go fence where you fence, I still face bad refs years into fencing, even at national competitions and college meets.
@@Caulin_ If you find bad refs everywhere you go, there might be a small chance the problem is you not actually doing what you think you are doing on the piste. Just throwing it out there.
@@archardor3392 I take videos of all my bouts at tournaments and trust me I am not the problem in most cases. Sometimes it does happen but usually then I talk with the ref after and look at the video to understand it. But the vast majority of the time the refs are the problem
Could someone explain the "it's two attacks" hit @ 7:13? To me it looks like attacks are together till the very end, where the fencer on stops and takes a step backwards before finishing his attack, whereas the fencer on the left doesn't hesitate at all. So I'd make the same call as the ref... But that's the wrong call apparently 😅 So can someone help me out here??
EDIT: I had a rewatch and I think its because the fencer on the left had their foot hit the floor before they blade hit the target, finishing his attack prematurely and making his final action a second attack, meaning he forfeits priority. Did I get it right this time Dad???
from my point of view (please take with a grain of salt I'm not a good analyst) it looked like Left fencer searched for parry 5 before hitting therefore making his first attack stop then switching to a cut for a second action.
It would've been a clear attack if fencer left just hit as footwork was great, just the action of, attack -> switch to forward parry -> switch back to an attack.
while fencer on the right had made a just-in-time direct attack which should've placed him in the right of way for that fencing time as my coach calls it.
again please if anyone else knows more I'd appreciate more opinions.
@@angusthomas2470 patrice already gave up the right of way. searching while lunging doesnt make you lose the right of way just like missing a beat while marching
although i think one could easily interpret it as an attempt to hit instead of parry
@@plat216 It does though. Its in the manual.
@@plat216 missing a beat while going forwards is losing the right of way but because the other fencer is going backwards unless they immediately attack the touch will be given attack for the attacking fencer in the start. the referees only have to announce the final action so if you are attacking and you miss a beat but continue going forward and the other fencer doesnt react and you hit each other the referee isnt going to say "Attack no, ripost no, attack touche" he will just say "attack touche"(Correct me if im wrong
So the missed beat-counter that Szabo was upset about is a pretty bad call. But the derobement on his PIL is massive so I don't think it's unreasonable to say no line, regardless of whether he's fixed the point.
I also think Patrice goes off the back on the maybe-riposte-maybe-counter-riposte hit, so it's a doubly harsh call from Szabo's perspective.
I think this is 2 bad calls and the PIL is a judgement call. Not great, not terrible.
I'm not entirely convinced that there was much difference with the early attacks on Szabo's preparation that went for Patrice vs the later one for Szabo's 12th hit (in fairness, I always feel this hit is given too much to the fencer looking for attack on prep currently) but again this is a judgement call.
The problem with being critical of poor refereeing performances is that we don't know the context. Perhaps this is a newly qualified referee, maybe coming back after a long time out due to pandemic.
World-class referees don't just appear, they have to work up to that level, which probably means making some mistakes along the way. Maybe this referee isn't ready for a world cup yet, but if we criticise them so much they quit the sport, no-one ever gets to that level.
I’m sorry but this level of reffing is inexcusable. This wouldn’t be acceptable at a regional let alone an international event. I refuse to believe that it’s just because the US has better refs cuz that’s bullshit
We need higher quality referees on events that aren’t just world cups
No video at this tournament?
Luckily this is not a major tournament. If it is, then it's definitely outraged and unacceptable
9:56 he's out of the piste before any hits are scores. Foot doesn't have to be planted in order to be called out; clear point to Szabo.
Edit: and actually when you look at the slo-mo replay, his front foot is planted behind the back line
Dramatic finish
Ok side note does Patrice wink @10:13 or am I going crazy
i just got my directors certification and i saw the PIL.
i thought i was a bad ref
I thought you cannot cross your feet in sabre?
you can’t
Only going forwards, you can doing backwards.
Another thing the referee missed is the black card. Unplugging yourself and refusing to fence, common...
???????
Why was no one called for video appeal? Probably half of the issue could be resolved through video appeal
My brother in christ there was no video
@@jadetea5834 why is there no video appeal?
@@christianalbertjahns2577because there is no camera hence no video replay hence no video review
What olympic fencing looks to me: a lot of double KO's.