Removing Output Tubes to Reduce Power Marshall JCM2000 DSL
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2018
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The Marshall Amp document I read back in the 1980s from a 1970's magazine said to pull the outside valves. Which I have done & had zero problems with.
Actually, you're NOT cutting the wattage in half because the tubes are running at about +450-470 volts on the plates... by comparison, a DSL50 (or any post-1974 50 watt) is running about +390-400 volts on the plates. So you're really only lowering the watts to about 70-80 watts. If you're going to use this trick make sure you rotate your tubes on a regular basis, so they wear evenly. I usually pull the two outside tubes and run the two inside tubes, but you can run it either way. And, always remember to set your ohms impedance correctly.; 4ohms for an 8ohm load, 8ohms for a 16ohm load.
Upwards mismatch shouldn't be that big of a deal if I don't change my amp impedance right? For plexi stye amp.
I have done that with a Peavey classic 20 with 2 EL 84s. Removing the 1st power tube made it sound crunchier. After 20+ years still running fine.
Great video, helpful to many who May need to perform and don't have spares!Thanks for sharing brother!Sounds pretty Damngood!
Leon - With the high price of output tubes these days, I think it's a great idea, thanks!!
Great Video Thanks!! Very informative. I have a JCM800 2203 100Watts...I'm gonna try this out.
Picked up a Bugera PS1 Passive 100 watt power attenuator for my JCM 2000 DSL 100watt and it works perfect for all my shows. Big or small! You can really crank the amp and use the PS1 as a master volume.
Sounds good. Even through my laptop speakers it is just how you described it.
I used to run my jcm 800 with the outside pair removed and halved the load never had any problems, blank off the valve basses so crud can't get in the sockets, brilliant tone very brown
Awesome test! I tried this a few years ago and found that the 50 watt mode had more grunt. Forgot about the 8ohm thing though so the low end felt weak especially in clean mode :/
running a outside pair of 6L6 removed for yrs, with and without a variac....easy to get smooth gritty blistering output and whean you roll off the guitar volume it cleans up very nice..Les Paul with an orange drop in the circuit. works well and does not tear the front rows faces off. A pair of shure micros and the to the board to get wide mono output so good wide output across the audience, then crank it up....
For years I never thought of buying a JCM 2000... bias drift and all the drama. But after your videos and some recent research I'm almost pulling the trigger on a DSL 50 (2008). I don't need one by any means... but I always thought of this amp. Btw, for me your videos are top grade and you are such a cool dude. All the best man, keep up the good work!
Thanks Valter. The DSL is a really fun amp, and with a little bit of maintenance it should keep you happy for years. I've been playing this one for over 12 years now.
I have an early 98 200 dsl 100 model. Started having the bias drift issue. I Got a new revision pcb board from Marshall and it’s been brilliant. No problems at all now. Bias been rock steady. Sounds incredible with the upgraded plexi spec output tranny and choke.
I used to do this with my old Rivera K100. I'd take the outer two power valves out and then crank the amp and have something in the effects loop so I could use the level control on the effects loop as a master volume
Worked great and the tone was big and fat
I'd love to play one of those amps!
Well I'm doing this tomorrow. Wish me luck
Edit: done did it and holy shit it's awesome
I just tried with laney vh100r, loved the result. Leon, are you using jcm2000 with 2 tubes now? Today? Or just for the tests? Thanks a lot :)
Both sound awesome! Would be interesting to experiment with this concept for recording double track rhythm guitars. One w all tubes n the other w 2 like you demonstrated. Any takes or thoughts on that idea?
That would be a fun way to get a consistent double but with slight variations. I like it.
Great video as always!
I'm really in a middle of picking a new DSL100HR or going for the good old UK made JCM2000 ( not sure if the 100W or 50W ), what do you suggest? sound and build wise and of course those master volumes? I mainly gonna use it at home so are they that important? It looks to me that the JCM2000 got that premium build look and the DSL100HR a bit cheaper look to it. Maybe I shall ask would you replace one of yours for a new HR version?
Would love to hear your opinion
There's not going to be a huge difference between a 50W and or 100W head if they have the same basic circuit. A 100W amp will be apx 3db louder than the 50W model.
Can you do this with the new DSL100HR?
Leon Todd, I have the Marshall DSL100HR where you can drop the power down by 50%, will this effect that?
Designer for vintage modern 2466 100watt says not to do it with that amp due to B+ voltage rising and stressing remaining valves leading to possible arc-over or reducing valve life, maybe the same for the DSL? needs investigating before permanent removal I would suggest.
I imagine that's also the case.
Because you're down two tubes that would otherwise be drawing current, all voltages in the amp go up slightly, B+, filaments, etc. Ideal thing to do is run it with 4 tubes and test some voltages, pull 2 and then use variac to bring them down, but that's usually unnecessary, it's not like the voltages double when you pull 2 tubes, it's pretty marginal and usually no prob
Bottom line, the lesson learned was: Get a 50 watts amp 😂. They are way easier to crank hahaha.
Hahaha exactly!
Not really... A 50W head will only be apx 3db quieter than its 100W counterpart... A 10W head would be 1/2 as loud as its 100W counterpart
You have the bigger 100 watt transformers, if you get the 100 and pull the tubes.
@@puddynuts I am sorry, I didn´t understand, what?
I was listening to your song Rust it's pretty cool! do you have it recorded and mixed on a pro studio or home studio?
We recorded it at my friend Troy Nababan's studio here in Perth. However our previous album, which he also recorded, was mostly recorded at my place and mixed at his home studio. Drums on Rust were done in a pretty small room but Troy is such a pro he made it sound great.
So did you say that you volume matched the amp before and after? I expected a noticeable volume drop but didn't hear it. How much more master volume did you need to get the same volume with two tubes?
I normalised the volumes in post. There was around a 3-6dB drop in volume, but I also wanted to evaluate any tonal differences and that is only valid at the same listening volume. It's probably 2-3 notches on the master volume; I found running the amp at 4 with 4 tubes was really pushing the load, but I could get it around 6 with the tubes pulled.
I think four tubes sounds better. Maybe beefier and tighter.
Does anyone know if you can do this with the TSL60? which only has two match power tubes.
That won't work
i wish you woulda shown the removal of the tubes. I was always under the impression you removed the 2 outer tubes
Either set works but it has to be the inner two or the outer two, I remove the inner two cause I think it creates less heat.
If you do this trick, will you always have to change the impedance?
I’m thinking of doing this to a Hiwatt clone and a JCM800 clone, and i’m just wondering if i’ll need to do it to both amps
Yes
Why? people run mismatched impedance all the time. As long as it's not too great of a mismatch.@@LeonTodd
Great!! ImI
Leon.
Pickups in your guitar??
Thanks mate. I'm using a P90/Humbucker combo by this guy www.martinasmith.com.au/pickups.html
Can this be done in a LANEY GH100L?
Should work fine
Thanks.
Dont get me wrong..I love your style and your videos but tried this yesterday with my brand new DSL 100. It sounded great for about 30 minutes and then it started popping and crackling and now it will not work! I did is exactly as you suggested and put it on 4 ohms for an 8 Ω cabinet running only the 2 outer tubes.... now it does not work at all and makes a crackling sound. I do not suggest doing this!! I'm really upset 😔 I notice this when I pressed the TONE SHIFT BUTTON IN ...and then the volume dropped and that's when the crackling started and now it will not work.😟 If there is anyway you can suggest how to fix it, please help!!
Todd I've noticed that you have replied to everyone's comment but mine. I'm only asking for your help. Robertwp71@gmail.com please
@@robertpundt4291 check the fuse
This is a jcm 2000 dsl 100 not one of the newer made dsl 100 from Vietnam
Don’t you still have your friends DSL50? You should compare the DSL100 on two tubes to that.
It's coming :D
Awesome. Thanks
I can't really tell from this test but when I've done it myself I've notice 4 tubes were better to my ears. More and deeper bass, less mids bolder breoader frequency respose. Who can afford tubes now though I might switch to 50 watts or just vsts. *shakes head*
Just use an attenuator
Attenuators make the tone worse and they can be risky
2:08 4:58
negligible difference.