Edit: Math corrected because I picked the wrong list to look at. Assuming that 6 out of the 13 possible sub stats (counting crit) are deemed desirable/useful: Using this method results in approximately 5.7% of echoes that you start rolling end up with double crit + at least 1 other useful stat, and 94.3% trash. So on average 17.5 echoes in order to receive one echo that passes the minimum standard. Overlord and Calamity class echoes have a 1 in 6 chance of having the main stat you want. So on average you would need to farm 105 echoes to get one good one. 3 costs have 10 main stats so on average you need to farm 175x2 of them. 1 costs only 3 main stats so 53x2. So, to get one character in minimally passable gear requires 561 echoes, on average. Nearly 10 hours of farming if you manage to get 1 drop per minute the entire time.
It's quite a bit different (unless I'm wrong). If you run the numbers through a hypergeometric calc (each new stat roll accounts for old stats already being chosen), you have a 15.2% chance of obtaining a double crit piece. Among those pieces, 83.3% of them will have 1 useful stat among the remaining 3 stats. This comes out to ~12.6% total chance. However there's a couple issues with this: there are actually 13 substats (hp/def/atk/crit x2 each, energy, basic atk, heavy atk, skill dmg, lib dmg), plus a decent % of pieces will not get rolled all the way to the end. If you correct for the 13 substat thing, you end up with about 10.1% of echoes with 60% efficiency. Extrapolating that out, it would require 60 instead of 84 (100 for elites, 30 for common). Correcting for the "stop rolling" portion is a bit more complicated, but in the end it means that you save materials but requires even more echo farming to find a good piece. Somewhere in the realm of 80-100 would be my guess (130-150 for elites and 40-50 for common). Pretty abysmal no matter how you look at it, especially considering we only get 15 guaranteed drops per week
@@latitude990 Hm. You're right, the list I was looking at didn't have Flat HP for some reason and I didn't catch the omission. However, that actually makes the odds much worse. With 6 out of 13 desirable stats, the odds of rolling a double crit + 1 echo with this method are now 5.7% instead of 7.3%. And this is accounting for the stop rolling probabilities by using ChatGPT and explaining the conditionals, then using a Monte Carlo simulation with 100,000 trials. Average required echoes is 105 4-cost, 175(x2) 3-cost, 53(x2) 1-cost, 561 total.
I haaaaaaate the echo system. This is my first Gacha game, I learnt to late that I was chewing through too many resources levelling up echoes to lvl 25 and tuning them all the way and now I've got no xp tubes and a heap of echoes to level up! I have 5 star characters I want to use but I don't have any xp tubes. This has put me in a very frustrating position.
Always level echoes uo to 5 or 10 if the first 2 stats are worthless just drop it, and there's a lot of ways to get echo xp, either from events or you buy them from the points you get from challenges (the triangle things) I didn't watch the whole video yet, if I just repeated what he said I apologize
@TakoGod69 I know what to do now, but it's too late now, and the grind is too slow and frustrating. And I don't want to start a new playthrough either coz I did put some money into this game getting characters which is fine, I've got spare cash so I don't mind putting a bit of money into the game but I'd rather just stop playing all together than scrap this account and start over. So, for now, I've stopped playing all together, and if they change the echo system, I will probably come back, but until then, I'm out.
I wouldn't keep echoes that roll energy regen and flat atk. Most dps only need 1 or 2 ER subs. My general priority for subs is crit > crit dmg >> atk% > relevant damage % >>> ER or flat atk. I prefer % atk over damage% because all the damage % stats from your gear and abilities are additive with each other, so it can hit harder diminishing returns than atk%. Tuners are the biggest roadblock to getting good echoes for an end-game player, so its important not to waste them.
I did echo overworld farming for a couple of weeks. Eventually, I got bored of it. Just doing tacet fields daily and hoping for the best. I won't check my results until two weeks later. I love this game, but I'm not planning on burning myself out with it.
exactly. This is one of the reasons why I have over 8000 tuners. And over 5000 tubes. once every 3 weeks i just take a few hours and clean out the echo inventory and try to see if i can get better substats. Also I could say I've been fortunate enough to actually get double crit on the last 2 lines recently vs before 2.0. So Im kind of cautious to just trash echoes after 1 or 2 lines if they have an offensive stat (anything other than flat HP, HP%, flat DEF, or DEF%) I don't get myself burned out over any game. I don't give a damn what it is.
He also failed to mention that you can just go into the inventory and just remove the echo and get 70% of the experience back. and 30% of the tuners back. So it would be better to do that versus merging the bad echo into another one that way you gain some resources back
@@IvoryTaurean The example you provided is exactly the reason why I'm just doing tacet fields now. Unfortunately, there's really no other method to getting tuners other than tacet fields. Receiving echos from overwrold farming is random enough as it is by itself, so you might as well kill two birds in one stone and get both echos along with tuners. As long as you have at least one fully built team. Your account will be fine, and you'll be able to focus on a second team in due time. The game isn't a race. It's more of a slow jog. Also, that's a great observation with trashing echos from the inventory instead. I'll be sure to do that from now on. Cheers for the info, mate. :)
@@darkheartrif About what? trashing echoes directly from the inventory? That's been in the game since launch. You just go into the inventory into the echo section. Select the ones that you don't want and just click remove. if they have a level, You get 70% of the experience back And 30% of the tuners back of the amount used.
Speaking of Echo efficiency, not all stat are created equal Just like how crit are better than flat atk and ER is most important until you hit the threshold in which ER is completely useless. But counting each useful substat equally is good enough until you have too much resources and try to minmax
I just got absolutely spooned for 4 double crit echoes for my Spectro Rover and built them to the point they can solo ToA in 1 hour, meanwhile it took me 2 weeks of wiping Rinascita of every damn echo on the map to get all 5 double crit echoes for my Carlotta lol. RNG is a bi#!@ Edit: Just got the 5th double crit echo for Spectrover :)
RNG fuck me over on Carlotta set, took me almost 3 weeks to get full double crit Phoebe set however is blessed by RNGod, took me two days. 10 minutes on day one with 500 tuner to get 4 echo with double crit, I got ton of echo from grinding Carlotta set and another day to get 4 cost double crit Sadly Phoebe have too much crit rate so I'm probably grinding again for crit damage piece with double atk and or basic attack damage bonus (my spectro rover reach 117% cr, 300 cd with Shorekeeper smh) I probably want at least one less crit rate roll even if I don't use SK smh
Nice video, I have two accounts tbh the main one echo rolling is really good my builds are descent and I clear all content meanwhile in the second one my luck is really bad 😅 trash echoes. Is it possible some accounts are "blessed" with echoes rolling or its only luck?
RNG stats are a pet peeve in the open world gacha games like genshin, ToF and wuwa (also NIKKE cause yeah) already been through and seems wuwa is bearable, the only thing that bugs me is the requirement of tuners to get the rng stats as well as tubes for leveling, which can be obtained obviously on tacet field and exploration... the rest is whatever your playstyle suits your needs, whether be exploration or challenges genshin and tof while lets you use excess artifacts/pieces to level up chosen items for rng chance stats, it's the repeater that drags down... imagine getting a perfect piece but the substats have that one odd out (hp and def) then it goes all there when you upgrade it like 4-5 times... so yeah, no perfect rng stats, just grinding... at least wuwa took like weeks to obtain decent double crits as substats, will take it if the other 3 are rng
In my experience, the "raise to lvl 5 first" method has a downside of an extremely high tuner usage rate. They go like popcorn if not faster. So you risk ending up with no usable echo at all, and no tuners. I've had better results when leveling the echos to lvl 10 first. If one of the first two stats is good, I roll it to +15. The reasoning behind this is - you will likely end up with some dead stats on an echo anyway. So even if one of the first two stats is useless, the echo can still turn out OK in case subsequent rolls are good. And this way you give an echo two chances at rolling good instead of just one. Saves both tuners and the grinding time.
I've been using double tuning strategies... If i don't see any CRIT on those 2 tune, I'll drop it... If i see one, I'll do one tuning, however, if there's 2 bad Substats and i only have Single CRIT roll, I'll drop as well... I've literally saved 1350 Gold tubes and 1020 Purple Tubes with 8446 Tuners... Thanks to these strategy, i have no worries on losing my gold tubes
I think this strategy works well if you're just aiming for 4/5 or 5/5 rolls. But when you get to the point where you're trying to not only get 4/5 or 5/5, but also get high value rolls. I think that's where things change. Basically it depends on if you're willing to min max. There's a huge difference between getting a good double crit echo and min maxing.
@@wobblestone3148 lol fair. It's because I've gotten to the point where I've cleared everything. So all that's left for me to do is just min max my favourite character. I won't bother doing it on other characters.
@@TheHitsukia often times I build my character enough that I started to waste my daily waveplates to tacet field so I can slowly farm gold tubes, day by day, week by week, my tubes got more bountiful... But even with that, I still do 2/5 min max cuz I'm not getting to the point that I'm becoming more greedy with my luck.
I.... optimized my data bank grind too much i was UL 31-32 and i hit 21 in data bank now i am UL 38 and data bank 23 >.> Most of the quest are over only side quest remaining. EDIT: I was around UL 39 with 7k/10k exp so i used 5 crystal solvent to reach to 10k/10k exp and UL 40 so that when i explore other chest and other stuff i can get grantee 5* echo drop rate. i was getting lots of 4* before for 1 or 3 cost ones which i found pretty bad coz i was not able to build neither my jinshi or rover, so in future if even one need to UL exp farm till 40 you can use solvent but DONT USE THEM more, save them for the character skill upgrade mats. I was in hurry to get 100% chance on 5* drop rate as it increases my optimization to build character for end game they are still lvl 70 and i have started playing about 1 week ago, So i will gradually build them and get stuff.
Honestly I would level to 10 first to see if there is a crit stat cause otherwise I will be throwing out too many echoes and especially when you start building a character to give an echo a bit more of a chance but otherwise I will use it as fodder in an instant
I find farming echos in overworld tiring and frustrating. Especially the 1 cost echos. I don't get echos adhered to the set I want. 1 cost echos also have low drop rate in tacet fields as well it seems. Is there any way I can get around this?
I'm the opposite. 1 cost echoes are the easiest ones to farm for me and get the subs that I need. Now when it comes to 3-4 cost ones... Farmed like 100~ of Sentry Construct alone for Carlotta till I got a pretty good rolled one and same thing was with the 3 costs ;dd Also for the 1 costs, you only get ATK or HP main stats so it's already wayyy easier to farm them plus you have shitloads of them in the overworld.
Throwing away an echo just because your first 1-2 stats aren't great is a sure way to dump tons of potentially good echoes and make your grind ten times longer. DO NOT throw away echoes after the first 2 stats. You won't be going for 5 perfect stats most of the time unless you love spending months on a single echo. Get double crit and if you're feeling lucky, go for a third stat as well, but DO NOT get rid of your echoes after the first two stats. Try to push at least until the 4th. It's much more efficient to consume a bit more XP than to throw a potentially good echo. If you skip everything after 1 bad stat, you're throwing away 80% of your empty echo slots for nothing. I've had echoes that started off with DEF/HP and then went into big double crit stats. A single DEF/HP stat won't ruin your echo and you have to learn to not aim for perfect 5 stats. I'm a massive tryhard and even I don't go that far. I very comfortably reach around 300% CD and 70-80% CR on my DPS characters with a comfortable amount of ATK. It's a gacha game, grinding is part of it, don't damage your earnings by trying to be efficient.
This is one of the reasons why I have over 8000 tuners. And over 5000 tubes. once every 3 weeks I just take a few hours and clean out the echo inventory and try to see if i can get better substats. Also I could say I've been fortunate enough to actually get double crit on the last 2 lines recently vs before 2.0. So like you Im kind of cautious to just trash echoes after 1 or 2 lines if they have an offensive stat (anything other than flat HP, HP%, flat DEF, or DEF% more than 10%) I never give a damn about TOA anyways so im not a try hard.
And he seemed to fail to mention that you can just go into the inventory trash. The bad echoes and get seventy percent of the experience back and thirty percent of the tuners back without having to merge a bad echo into another one That way you can get some of the resources back that you spent
It depends whether u grind echoes overworld or not. If u regularly spending time chilling grinding echoes. Yeah maybe u can rid echoes if 1-2 earlier substat is bad. Because u will run out of echoes exp and not the echoes to roll with. Thou throw echo after 1 bad substat pretty overkill TBH. Because I'm pretty sure u will run out of tuner and be stuck with tons of exp tubes that way.
@@SyrFlora I really enjoy spending my time on Wuwa and I have lots of fun collecting echoes in the overworld, but there's already enough struggles with that as well. With the introduction of 2.0, there are now echoes that are supposedly part of 5 DIFFERENT SETS. Most 1 costs are part of 3 different sets and very few ones are part of only 2. So collecting overworld echoes means not only having to get the right main stat, but also the right set out of 2-5 sets depending on the echo. There were times when I wiped the entire map clean for 1 specific echo set, and I had only around 10 echoes I could upgrade that had the right main stat and set to them - and that's also when I use the food that increases echo drop rates. I think the game has a fair share of challenges to not try and level up echoes to at least level 15-20. XP is always grindable, echoes with good stats require lots of luck. I make sure I don't waste a perfectly good echo and always push for level 25 if I see a chance for high-end double crit. If I run out of XP, I will just get it tomorrow.
Great video, i knew most of these things, but was missing some... But my main problem is the RNG. When doing tacet fields, i don't get cost 1 echoes, 1 Cost 1 drop in a 2x reward, as best, and when doing farming routes, most of the cost 1 i get are DEF/HP, and the few ones with attack get trash stats when rolling
I'm too lazy to farm overworld so just farming tacet field almost everyday. Got my Carlotta with double crit substat around 2-3 weeks of farming. If you have built most of your character, you can go +15 and see if there are no crit, just trash it. Save a lot of time. I still have plenty of tuners and tube doing this. Also don't throw away the atk 3 cost, most of the time atk 3 cost is just marginally worst than dmg%. So if your 3 cost dmg% have trash subs, just use atk 3 cost with better subs.
the huge huge huge flaw w line by line echo leveling, is it requires 4x the farming of splash echo tuning. as well, the time it takes to aquire echo exp is less than the time it takes to farm all these test echoes. all of this for a 4-6% difference in dmg. no. for people who casually play, i would raise to level 15 min, then trash. but trully you want to level to 20 so you know what you have right away. there are many echoes w dmg% early lines that are good for the unit, but this crit fishing binds you from getting them, because you trash if skill dmg or res liberation% is the 1st two lines. i cant prove this theory, but am waiting for a smarter theory crafter than me, to blow up this 1 line echo tuning theory. you need thousands of echoes to get the best lines
@@VoidEnigma not quite, if you lack echo exp for future substat gamba, it's better to destroy it and get the tubes back instantly in order to use it further if echo exp is not an issue anymore then ye, same deal
Yo Void, love the vid man. I’m currently UL65 returning. My DPS are all leveled in terms of forte, wep, and levels. My subdps tho (Yinlin, Mortefi, Zhezhi) are all very low investment. Should I get those guys to lv 80 with lv 8 skills? Or should I farm echoes first?
Thanks! Yeah, definitely get the subdps that you use to level 80, with 8 skills. Especially Yin Lin and Zhezhi, since they do a lot of damage. That way when you get the echoes, they're ready to go~
One to 3 days to finish your Carlotta? I'm one month in and still only have 2 useful echoes and I farm all her echoes to the limit every day, my RNG is just so bad.
That’s neat, but I just get my echo to level 20, tune them all at once, and dump them if I don’t get double crit subs. The next echo is gonna cost that useless 20 cost echo and 4 gold exp bars to get to 20 again, tune them, rinse and repeat till I get double crit. 4 dice rolls will increase the probability of double crit by a lot. I use a lot more resources exp mats and tuners this way, but I get the double crits faster and have to barely farm for echos. I built all my characters this way and it usually takes 2-3 days of halfhearted echo farming to have a decent echo pool to start doing it. Didn’t touch tacet field for tuner or exp mats or use any crystal solvents. The game give you a lot of exp mat and tuners. Enough not to have to bother with the headache of tuning one at a time. While your way may be more efficient on the exp and tuners, it’s not on my sanity.
Love the vid always helpful one questions should put a 4 cost cd instead since I have s1 and shore 12.5+12.5=25% cr. I’m 52 over 330 and 76-77 cr over 330 after buffs is that bad
Thanks so much! As for your question, youre actually at 77/355 with Shorekeeper, since she buffs crit damage by 25% if youre in the gold field. With S1 Carlotta, the ratio that you have now is perfectly fine! However, it would still technically be better if you changed the 4 cost to crit rate, since not critting on carlotta's liberation is a huge dps loss. If you kept the same quality of echoes, you'd be at something like 99/311 fully buffed. So you'd be guarenteed to crit. Personally, I wouldn't change it, but if you do notice that you're missing crits often, then you might want to consider it!
Unfortunately no, just tacet fields. Well, you can get them from the overworld too. If you do a ton of exploring, you can find that you have a decent haul.
@VoidEnigma okay, thanks maybe i should skip roccia then... I lost the 50/50 with roccia and at 56 pity. Having the greatest, most luckiest, loved by kurogames everrrrr. Dangit i lost like 4 of my 50/50 soo
Yup! Flat attack in Wuwa is actually pretty good. Atk % is the best, and Flat Attack is actually better than the specific substats such as "basic attack damage" because of the way the damage is calculated in Wuwa (most of the time).
I think it's better if we soon get 😂 reroll system because its really waste when some good main stats echoes get worse sub stats and have to later discard or use it on the echoes upgrade.😮 So i think its better if we get reroll 🤔 with “NEW”🆕 RESOURCES FOR REROLL JUST LIKE TUNER and than we can use this echo system efficiently. Do you agree?
Nightmare echoes are absolutely nightmare for me. Farming for xiangli and camellya from 1 month. No double crit 4 costs. But was able to build jinshi echoes from scratch in 30 min.like wtf.😂😂😂
Sucks that double crit neccisary because its the one stat combo the game refuses to give me. After months of optimal rolling there is onky one double crit on the entire account, you think im lying but i am not. Filtering by any other 2 substats. Literally ANY other combo of substats. And there are dozens of them. Filter by single crit. There are 70 to 80. Filtering by crit damage and crit rate. There is ONE.
@YoichiMutou its kinda weird cuz i rolled so much for double crit that my encore became cracked without a single crit dmg substat. Ebevery single echo is Basic+crit rate+ atk +atk% +energy/ resonance skill damage. Only one of her echos has a single dead stat. She's got 3000 atk, 50% basic bonus, 30% res skill bonus. I think 100% fusion bonus. And a pitiful 67/175 crit ratio lol
That is not smart usage of trash higher level echoes. Anything above a 5 in your system should be trashed from the inventory to get the echo xp back in the form of tubes so you can resumes leveling new ones to 5 and no further jf trash. If you keep them on the side only to level echoes you want to try raising to 25, you are slowing yourself down. And if you use them to level other echoes to anything other than 25, you'll be double-taxing anything past the multiple of 5 level you stop the echo at. Using a 10 to level a new one for instance, you would get the new one to 7, roll hp, and discard it, wasting 30% of the 2 excess levels you raised it. Repeat it a few times, and compound losses will make you xp deprived much faster.
When i just saw him making echoes into xp fodder i knew it was already horrible. its really better to recycle that rather than using it to level up a echo and i was lost when he was talking about efficiency.....
the way you evaluate your echo efficiency is kinda flawed, its assuming each substat is equal in value when the crits scale so much harder if i were to break it down in your terms, double crits would be 75% efficiency (c rate 40%, cdmg 35%) atk% and er would be 10% each, flat atk, dmg bonus and the rest would be a minuscule amount double crit is what you should realistically just aim for, that ,+1 of atk% or er is luxury and where you should probably stop, any more is just a cherry on top and incredibly unrealistic to get on 5 echoes. also i wouldnt put too much weight into the roll ranges unless you are looking for upgrades on your double crits i would personally prioritize crit rate over everything else, pieces with crit rate and er paired is very strong if you are under ER requirements double crit on about 3 echoes and meeting er requirements for your character to function is all you really need for comfortable tower clears barring massive hand issues other than that the rest is fine but kinda lacking in nuance for different progressions, playtime one would want to sink in, and small optimizations on resource spending
Yup what you said makes a lot of sense. But I guess he just wanted to simplify the math. I usually work on a dps character I like in stages. First I just get double crit on every echo. Then I replace them with attack, cr, cd. Finally, I reach the stage where I want attack,cr,cd and damage %. If I have nothing else to do, I aim for a perfect 5/5 piece lol. That's what I'm doing on my Jinhsi right now.
Trashing echo after getting 1 poor sub stat is wasteful considering how low the drop rates of echo with good main stats (i.e: ATK for cost 1, correct element bonus for cost 3, crit for cost 4). For me, i rather try 2 or 3 sub stat before deciding whether to trash the echo or continue, generally if i got at least 1 crit stat, then its good to continue levelling that echo. Reason behind this is because getting a good echo is lot harder than getting tubes/tuner, so good echo is more precious than tubes/tuner.
uhmm my Jinhsi's crit is 63.8/232....no signature-only lustrous razor - 43311 one spectro+one atk main stat on 3cost(couldn’t find good spectro damage pieces) Should I leave her the way she is or should I farm more echoes 🥲? (Have Zhezhi)
I just lost it at my Carlotta echo rolls like 20mins ago , lmao good timing 😂
I used away my echo exp yesterday.
Edit: Math corrected because I picked the wrong list to look at.
Assuming that 6 out of the 13 possible sub stats (counting crit) are deemed desirable/useful:
Using this method results in approximately 5.7% of echoes that you start rolling end up with double crit + at least 1 other useful stat, and 94.3% trash.
So on average 17.5 echoes in order to receive one echo that passes the minimum standard.
Overlord and Calamity class echoes have a 1 in 6 chance of having the main stat you want.
So on average you would need to farm 105 echoes to get one good one.
3 costs have 10 main stats so on average you need to farm 175x2 of them.
1 costs only 3 main stats so 53x2.
So, to get one character in minimally passable gear requires 561 echoes, on average.
Nearly 10 hours of farming if you manage to get 1 drop per minute the entire time.
It's quite a bit different (unless I'm wrong). If you run the numbers through a hypergeometric calc (each new stat roll accounts for old stats already being chosen), you have a 15.2% chance of obtaining a double crit piece. Among those pieces, 83.3% of them will have 1 useful stat among the remaining 3 stats. This comes out to ~12.6% total chance. However there's a couple issues with this: there are actually 13 substats (hp/def/atk/crit x2 each, energy, basic atk, heavy atk, skill dmg, lib dmg), plus a decent % of pieces will not get rolled all the way to the end.
If you correct for the 13 substat thing, you end up with about 10.1% of echoes with 60% efficiency. Extrapolating that out, it would require 60 instead of 84 (100 for elites, 30 for common). Correcting for the "stop rolling" portion is a bit more complicated, but in the end it means that you save materials but requires even more echo farming to find a good piece. Somewhere in the realm of 80-100 would be my guess (130-150 for elites and 40-50 for common).
Pretty abysmal no matter how you look at it, especially considering we only get 15 guaranteed drops per week
@@latitude990 Hm. You're right, the list I was looking at didn't have Flat HP for some reason and I didn't catch the omission. However, that actually makes the odds much worse. With 6 out of 13 desirable stats, the odds of rolling a double crit + 1 echo with this method are now 5.7% instead of 7.3%. And this is accounting for the stop rolling probabilities by using ChatGPT and explaining the conditionals, then using a Monte Carlo simulation with 100,000 trials.
Average required echoes is 105 4-cost, 175(x2) 3-cost, 53(x2) 1-cost, 561 total.
Sparkles theme is PEAK it fits everywhere
I haaaaaaate the echo system. This is my first Gacha game, I learnt to late that I was chewing through too many resources levelling up echoes to lvl 25 and tuning them all the way and now I've got no xp tubes and a heap of echoes to level up! I have 5 star characters I want to use but I don't have any xp tubes. This has put me in a very frustrating position.
Always level echoes uo to 5 or 10 if the first 2 stats are worthless just drop it, and there's a lot of ways to get echo xp, either from events or you buy them from the points you get from challenges (the triangle things)
I didn't watch the whole video yet, if I just repeated what he said I apologize
If you REALLY hate this system, try farming ascension materials on Genshin and you’ll change your mind
If you hate WuWa's Echo system, try every other system Genshit has. It's gonna send you straight into an asylum.
Not the echo system but that rng(luck)
@TakoGod69 I know what to do now, but it's too late now, and the grind is too slow and frustrating. And I don't want to start a new playthrough either coz I did put some money into this game getting characters which is fine, I've got spare cash so I don't mind putting a bit of money into the game but I'd rather just stop playing all together than scrap this account and start over.
So, for now, I've stopped playing all together, and if they change the echo system, I will probably come back, but until then, I'm out.
hey , great video but ur mic might be a lil worse than usual
Yeah... while I was editing i wasn't sure why it sounded so different...
@VoidEnigma isok
love the video and love the fact u use nier songs in every video that ive watched so far (this and the carlotta qs video)
nice video, gonna implement your strats from now on
I havent watch the vid yet but I needed this
I wouldn't keep echoes that roll energy regen and flat atk. Most dps only need 1 or 2 ER subs. My general priority for subs is crit > crit dmg >> atk% > relevant damage % >>> ER or flat atk. I prefer % atk over damage% because all the damage % stats from your gear and abilities are additive with each other, so it can hit harder diminishing returns than atk%. Tuners are the biggest roadblock to getting good echoes for an end-game player, so its important not to waste them.
I did echo overworld farming for a couple of weeks. Eventually, I got bored of it. Just doing tacet fields daily and hoping for the best. I won't check my results until two weeks later. I love this game, but I'm not planning on burning myself out with it.
exactly. This is one of the reasons why I have over 8000 tuners. And over 5000 tubes. once every 3 weeks i just take a few hours and clean out the echo inventory and try to see if i can get better substats. Also I could say I've been fortunate enough to actually get double crit on the last 2 lines recently vs before 2.0. So Im kind of cautious to just trash echoes after 1 or 2 lines if they have an offensive stat (anything other than flat HP, HP%, flat DEF, or DEF%) I don't get myself burned out over any game. I don't give a damn what it is.
He also failed to mention that you can just go into the inventory and just remove the echo and get 70% of the experience back. and 30% of the tuners back. So it would be better to do that versus merging the bad echo into another one that way you gain some resources back
@@IvoryTaurean The example you provided is exactly the reason why I'm just doing tacet fields now. Unfortunately, there's really no other method to getting tuners other than tacet fields.
Receiving echos from overwrold farming is random enough as it is by itself, so you might as well kill two birds in one stone and get both echos along with tuners. As long as you have at least one fully built team. Your account will be fine, and you'll be able to focus on a second team in due time. The game isn't a race. It's more of a slow jog.
Also, that's a great observation with trashing echos from the inventory instead. I'll be sure to do that from now on. Cheers for the info, mate. :)
@@IvoryTaureanim new how do u do that?
@@darkheartrif About what? trashing echoes directly from the inventory? That's been in the game since launch. You just go into the inventory into the echo section. Select the ones that you don't want and just click remove. if they have a level, You get 70% of the experience back And 30% of the tuners back of the amount used.
the knights always dropping is a great tip!
Speaking of Echo efficiency, not all stat are created equal
Just like how crit are better than flat atk and ER is most important until you hit the threshold in which ER is completely useless. But counting each useful substat equally is good enough until you have too much resources and try to minmax
Definitely! Just wanted to make the concept easier to digest.
I just got absolutely spooned for 4 double crit echoes for my Spectro Rover and built them to the point they can solo ToA in 1 hour, meanwhile it took me 2 weeks of wiping Rinascita of every damn echo on the map to get all 5 double crit echoes for my Carlotta lol. RNG is a bi#!@
Edit: Just got the 5th double crit echo for Spectrover :)
RNG fuck me over on Carlotta set, took me almost 3 weeks to get full double crit
Phoebe set however is blessed by RNGod, took me two days. 10 minutes on day one with 500 tuner to get 4 echo with double crit, I got ton of echo from grinding Carlotta set and another day to get 4 cost double crit
Sadly Phoebe have too much crit rate so I'm probably grinding again for crit damage piece with double atk and or basic attack damage bonus (my spectro rover reach 117% cr, 300 cd with Shorekeeper smh)
I probably want at least one less crit rate roll even if I don't use SK smh
Nice video, I have two accounts tbh the main one echo rolling is really good my builds are descent and I clear all content meanwhile in the second one my luck is really bad 😅 trash echoes. Is it possible some accounts are "blessed" with echoes rolling or its only luck?
RNG stats are a pet peeve in the open world gacha games like genshin, ToF and wuwa (also NIKKE cause yeah)
already been through and seems wuwa is bearable, the only thing that bugs me is the requirement of tuners to get the rng stats as well as tubes for leveling, which can be obtained obviously on tacet field and exploration... the rest is whatever your playstyle suits your needs, whether be exploration or challenges
genshin and tof while lets you use excess artifacts/pieces to level up chosen items for rng chance stats, it's the repeater that drags down... imagine getting a perfect piece but the substats have that one odd out (hp and def) then it goes all there when you upgrade it like 4-5 times...
so yeah, no perfect rng stats, just grinding... at least wuwa took like weeks to obtain decent double crits as substats, will take it if the other 3 are rng
In my experience, the "raise to lvl 5 first" method has a downside of an extremely high tuner usage rate. They go like popcorn if not faster. So you risk ending up with no usable echo at all, and no tuners. I've had better results when leveling the echos to lvl 10 first. If one of the first two stats is good, I roll it to +15. The reasoning behind this is - you will likely end up with some dead stats on an echo anyway. So even if one of the first two stats is useless, the echo can still turn out OK in case subsequent rolls are good. And this way you give an echo two chances at rolling good instead of just one. Saves both tuners and the grinding time.
Save this for my echo gamba later
u can discard echoes and get the exp back instead of keeping them for level up fodder
I've been using double tuning strategies...
If i don't see any CRIT on those 2 tune, I'll drop it...
If i see one, I'll do one tuning, however, if there's 2 bad Substats and i only have Single CRIT roll, I'll drop as well...
I've literally saved 1350 Gold tubes and 1020 Purple Tubes with 8446 Tuners...
Thanks to these strategy, i have no worries on losing my gold tubes
Men level 10 seems better for min maxing imma use this strat now. Im burning out of getting Hp on the first tuning
I think this strategy works well if you're just aiming for 4/5 or 5/5 rolls. But when you get to the point where you're trying to not only get 4/5 or 5/5, but also get high value rolls. I think that's where things change. Basically it depends on if you're willing to min max. There's a huge difference between getting a good double crit echo and min maxing.
@@TheHitsukia if you wanna min max so much, suit yourself. but 99.9% of people aren't gonna bother
@@wobblestone3148 lol fair. It's because I've gotten to the point where I've cleared everything. So all that's left for me to do is just min max my favourite character. I won't bother doing it on other characters.
@@TheHitsukia often times I build my character enough that I started to waste my daily waveplates to tacet field so I can slowly farm gold tubes, day by day, week by week, my tubes got more bountiful...
But even with that, I still do 2/5 min max cuz I'm not getting to the point that I'm becoming more greedy with my luck.
Btw, Overlord and Calamity dont share the same pity, so for an example: you cant kill crownless and then get the guranteed bell turtle echo.
Right, i shoulda clarified that difference
I.... optimized my data bank grind too much i was UL 31-32 and i hit 21 in data bank now i am UL 38 and data bank 23 >.> Most of the quest are over only side quest remaining.
EDIT: I was around UL 39 with 7k/10k exp so i used 5 crystal solvent to reach to 10k/10k exp and UL 40 so that when i explore other chest and other stuff i can get grantee 5* echo drop rate.
i was getting lots of 4* before for 1 or 3 cost ones which i found pretty bad coz i was not able to build neither my jinshi or rover, so in future if even one need to UL exp farm till 40 you can use solvent but DONT USE THEM more, save them for the character skill upgrade mats.
I was in hurry to get 100% chance on 5* drop rate as it increases my optimization to build character for end game they are still lvl 70 and i have started playing about 1 week ago, So i will gradually build them and get stuff.
Honestly I would level to 10 first to see if there is a crit stat cause otherwise I will be throwing out too many echoes and especially when you start building a character to give an echo a bit more of a chance but otherwise I will use it as fodder in an instant
I find farming echos in overworld tiring and frustrating. Especially the 1 cost echos. I don't get echos adhered to the set I want. 1 cost echos also have low drop rate in tacet fields as well it seems. Is there any way I can get around this?
i did them for Calcharo before now I'm just doing Tacet Fields if they are bad merge and pray for the Cost 1 😅
I'm the opposite. 1 cost echoes are the easiest ones to farm for me and get the subs that I need. Now when it comes to 3-4 cost ones... Farmed like 100~ of Sentry Construct alone for Carlotta till I got a pretty good rolled one and same thing was with the 3 costs ;dd Also for the 1 costs, you only get ATK or HP main stats so it's already wayyy easier to farm them plus you have shitloads of them in the overworld.
nice vid. what echo set and 4 cost ur using for xl yao?
Void thunder, Nightmare thundering. Crit rate if not WP CR. CDmg if WP CR
Throwing away an echo just because your first 1-2 stats aren't great is a sure way to dump tons of potentially good echoes and make your grind ten times longer. DO NOT throw away echoes after the first 2 stats. You won't be going for 5 perfect stats most of the time unless you love spending months on a single echo. Get double crit and if you're feeling lucky, go for a third stat as well, but DO NOT get rid of your echoes after the first two stats. Try to push at least until the 4th. It's much more efficient to consume a bit more XP than to throw a potentially good echo. If you skip everything after 1 bad stat, you're throwing away 80% of your empty echo slots for nothing. I've had echoes that started off with DEF/HP and then went into big double crit stats. A single DEF/HP stat won't ruin your echo and you have to learn to not aim for perfect 5 stats. I'm a massive tryhard and even I don't go that far. I very comfortably reach around 300% CD and 70-80% CR on my DPS characters with a comfortable amount of ATK. It's a gacha game, grinding is part of it, don't damage your earnings by trying to be efficient.
This is one of the reasons why I have over 8000 tuners. And over 5000 tubes. once every 3 weeks I just take a few hours and clean out the echo inventory and try to see if i can get better substats. Also I could say I've been fortunate enough to actually get double crit on the last 2 lines recently vs before 2.0. So like you Im kind of cautious to just trash echoes after 1 or 2 lines if they have an offensive stat (anything other than flat HP, HP%, flat DEF, or DEF% more than 10%) I never give a damn about TOA anyways so im not a try hard.
And he seemed to fail to mention that you can just go into the inventory trash. The bad echoes and get seventy percent of the experience back and thirty percent of the tuners back without having to merge a bad echo into another one That way you can get some of the resources back that you spent
It depends whether u grind echoes overworld or not. If u regularly spending time chilling grinding echoes. Yeah maybe u can rid echoes if 1-2 earlier substat is bad. Because u will run out of echoes exp and not the echoes to roll with. Thou throw echo after 1 bad substat pretty overkill TBH. Because I'm pretty sure u will run out of tuner and be stuck with tons of exp tubes that way.
@@SyrFlora I really enjoy spending my time on Wuwa and I have lots of fun collecting echoes in the overworld, but there's already enough struggles with that as well. With the introduction of 2.0, there are now echoes that are supposedly part of 5 DIFFERENT SETS. Most 1 costs are part of 3 different sets and very few ones are part of only 2. So collecting overworld echoes means not only having to get the right main stat, but also the right set out of 2-5 sets depending on the echo. There were times when I wiped the entire map clean for 1 specific echo set, and I had only around 10 echoes I could upgrade that had the right main stat and set to them - and that's also when I use the food that increases echo drop rates. I think the game has a fair share of challenges to not try and level up echoes to at least level 15-20. XP is always grindable, echoes with good stats require lots of luck. I make sure I don't waste a perfectly good echo and always push for level 25 if I see a chance for high-end double crit. If I run out of XP, I will just get it tomorrow.
Great video, i knew most of these things, but was missing some...
But my main problem is the RNG. When doing tacet fields, i don't get cost 1 echoes, 1 Cost 1 drop in a 2x reward, as best, and when doing farming routes, most of the cost 1 i get are DEF/HP, and the few ones with attack get trash stats when rolling
Ayo that intro 🤨
They for the very least need to acknoledge it. And fix it in the next 2 patches.
THANKK YOU FOR THIS GUIDEEEE
Your name LMFAOOOOO
I'm too lazy to farm overworld so just farming tacet field almost everyday. Got my Carlotta with double crit substat around 2-3 weeks of farming. If you have built most of your character, you can go +15 and see if there are no crit, just trash it. Save a lot of time. I still have plenty of tuners and tube doing this. Also don't throw away the atk 3 cost, most of the time atk 3 cost is just marginally worst than dmg%. So if your 3 cost dmg% have trash subs, just use atk 3 cost with better subs.
the huge huge huge flaw w line by line echo leveling, is it requires 4x the farming of splash echo tuning. as well, the time it takes to aquire echo exp is less than the time it takes to farm all these test echoes. all of this for a 4-6% difference in dmg. no. for people who casually play, i would raise to level 15 min, then trash. but trully you want to level to 20 so you know what you have right away. there are many echoes w dmg% early lines that are good for the unit, but this crit fishing binds you from getting them, because you trash if skill dmg or res liberation% is the 1st two lines. i cant prove this theory, but am waiting for a smarter theory crafter than me, to blow up this 1 line echo tuning theory. you need thousands of echoes to get the best lines
7:18 you can trash +25 echo in inventory and convert it to tubes/tuners
Yeah definitely, it's the same thing at the end of the day, cus if you feed it into another echoes, you keep the excess materials
@@VoidEnigma not quite, if you lack echo exp for future substat gamba, it's better to destroy it and get the tubes back instantly in order to use it further
if echo exp is not an issue anymore then ye, same deal
Just get lucky, bro. easy clap.
True!! XD
Yo Void, love the vid man. I’m currently UL65 returning. My DPS are all leveled in terms of forte, wep, and levels. My subdps tho (Yinlin, Mortefi, Zhezhi) are all very low investment. Should I get those guys to lv 80 with lv 8 skills? Or should I farm echoes first?
Thanks!
Yeah, definitely get the subdps that you use to level 80, with 8 skills. Especially Yin Lin and Zhezhi, since they do a lot of damage. That way when you get the echoes, they're ready to go~
@@VoidEnigma Thank you man :D Love your vids
One to 3 days to finish your Carlotta? I'm one month in and still only have 2 useful echoes and I farm all her echoes to the limit every day, my RNG is just so bad.
That’s neat, but I just get my echo to level 20, tune them all at once, and dump them if I don’t get double crit subs. The next echo is gonna cost that useless 20 cost echo and 4 gold exp bars to get to 20 again, tune them, rinse and repeat till I get double crit. 4 dice rolls will increase the probability of double crit by a lot. I use a lot more resources exp mats and tuners this way, but I get the double crits faster and have to barely farm for echos. I built all my characters this way and it usually takes 2-3 days of halfhearted echo farming to have a decent echo pool to start doing it. Didn’t touch tacet field for tuner or exp mats or use any crystal solvents. The game give you a lot of exp mat and tuners. Enough not to have to bother with the headache of tuning one at a time. While your way may be more efficient on the exp and tuners, it’s not on my sanity.
Idk where you get your tuners but mine are probably also on your acct cause i can't do that.
@@8acohahahahaha yeah same, my mate here has the runners that were supposed to go to all the other accounts
Love the vid always helpful one questions should put a 4 cost cd instead since I have s1 and shore 12.5+12.5=25% cr. I’m 52 over 330 and 76-77 cr over 330 after buffs is that bad
Thanks so much!
As for your question, youre actually at 77/355 with Shorekeeper, since she buffs crit damage by 25% if youre in the gold field. With S1 Carlotta, the ratio that you have now is perfectly fine!
However, it would still technically be better if you changed the 4 cost to crit rate, since not critting on carlotta's liberation is a huge dps loss. If you kept the same quality of echoes, you'd be at something like 99/311 fully buffed. So you'd be guarenteed to crit.
Personally, I wouldn't change it, but if you do notice that you're missing crits often, then you might want to consider it!
is there any way to farm exho exp materials other than tacet? i also bought everything from pointshop and soveignier shop as well
Unfortunately no, just tacet fields. Well, you can get them from the overworld too. If you do a ton of exploring, you can find that you have a decent haul.
What is good energy for Xiangli Yao?
Around 130% is ideal, but you can get away with 120%.
Did you get rocia?😊
I actually didnt get Roccia. I am saving for both Zani, and Brant!
@VoidEnigma okay, thanks maybe i should skip roccia then... I lost the 50/50 with roccia and at 56 pity. Having the greatest, most luckiest, loved by kurogames everrrrr. Dangit i lost like 4 of my 50/50 soo
Ok now make a video for people that already fucked up and how they can get more echo materials. Include free to play and pay to win options lol
I wish i can convert the tuners into echo exp
Is flat atk line really considered a good line ? I usually don't see it as such, still better than hp/def though
Yup! Flat attack in Wuwa is actually pretty good. Atk % is the best, and Flat Attack is actually better than the specific substats such as "basic attack damage" because of the way the damage is calculated in Wuwa (most of the time).
@VoidEnigma good to know !
I think it's better if we soon get 😂 reroll system because its really waste when some good main stats echoes get worse sub stats and have to later discard or use it on the echoes upgrade.😮
So i think its better if we get reroll 🤔 with “NEW”🆕 RESOURCES FOR REROLL JUST LIKE TUNER and than we can use this echo system efficiently.
Do you agree?
Nightmare echoes are absolutely nightmare for me. Farming for xiangli and camellya from 1 month. No double crit 4 costs. But was able to build jinshi echoes from scratch in 30 min.like wtf.😂😂😂
Sucks that double crit neccisary because its the one stat combo the game refuses to give me. After months of optimal rolling there is onky one double crit on the entire account, you think im lying but i am not.
Filtering by any other 2 substats. Literally ANY other combo of substats. And there are dozens of them. Filter by single crit. There are 70 to 80.
Filtering by crit damage and crit rate. There is ONE.
im rolling a lot of double but they have some defense and hp stats haha
just +10 an echo if it's bad, recycle them
@YoichiMutou its kinda weird cuz i rolled so much for double crit that my encore became cracked without a single crit dmg substat.
Ebevery single echo is
Basic+crit rate+ atk +atk% +energy/ resonance skill damage. Only one of her echos has a single dead stat.
She's got 3000 atk, 50% basic bonus, 30% res skill bonus. I think 100% fusion bonus. And a pitiful 67/175 crit ratio lol
That is not smart usage of trash higher level echoes. Anything above a 5 in your system should be trashed from the inventory to get the echo xp back in the form of tubes so you can resumes leveling new ones to 5 and no further jf trash. If you keep them on the side only to level echoes you want to try raising to 25, you are slowing yourself down. And if you use them to level other echoes to anything other than 25, you'll be double-taxing anything past the multiple of 5 level you stop the echo at. Using a 10 to level a new one for instance, you would get the new one to 7, roll hp, and discard it, wasting 30% of the 2 excess levels you raised it. Repeat it a few times, and compound losses will make you xp deprived much faster.
When i just saw him making echoes into xp fodder i knew it was already horrible. its really better to recycle that rather than using it to level up a echo and i was lost when he was talking about efficiency.....
Its essentially the same thing. You do save a tad bit of experience I suppose.
Wait we can fly now?
You can fly anywhere in Rinascita! Its not available in other regions, but we are hoping that it gets added in the future (sending feedback).
@VoidEnigma sob ok I was super excited there for a second but still good to know ty
I think CR/CD should be worth 30%, atk% worth 20%, and other useful substats worth 10%
Doesn't make sense for flat atk to be worth the same as crit
Definitely!! I just said it like that for simplicity.
good luck getting out of echo hell if you have garbage luck and keeps getting the lowest roll possible on sub-stats
wasting too much resource and time in tacet fields. Same with farming manually I always get trashy echoes (element paired with the wrong main stats)
wasted 2 weeks griding trashy echoes since Carlotta's release, can't min/max 4 and 3 value echoes
the way you evaluate your echo efficiency is kinda flawed, its assuming each substat is equal in value when the crits scale so much harder
if i were to break it down in your terms, double crits would be 75% efficiency (c rate 40%, cdmg 35%) atk% and er would be 10% each, flat atk, dmg bonus and the rest would be a minuscule amount
double crit is what you should realistically just aim for, that ,+1 of atk% or er is luxury and where you should probably stop, any more is just a cherry on top and incredibly unrealistic to get on 5 echoes. also i wouldnt put too much weight into the roll ranges unless you are looking for upgrades on your double crits
i would personally prioritize crit rate over everything else, pieces with crit rate and er paired is very strong if you are under ER requirements
double crit on about 3 echoes and meeting er requirements for your character to function is all you really need for comfortable tower clears barring massive hand issues
other than that the rest is fine but kinda lacking in nuance for different progressions, playtime one would want to sink in, and small optimizations on resource spending
Yup what you said makes a lot of sense. But I guess he just wanted to simplify the math. I usually work on a dps character I like in stages. First I just get double crit on every echo. Then I replace them with attack, cr, cd. Finally, I reach the stage where I want attack,cr,cd and damage %. If I have nothing else to do, I aim for a perfect 5/5 piece lol. That's what I'm doing on my Jinhsi right now.
Wait 8:30 the game has a playtime warning😂😂😂
🤣🤣 I was editing while playing, okay!!
Ima just take the L and be happy with my trash stats. Too much work for something I don't even enjoy.
the background music is kind of distracting
I used the wrong background music, my bad. I will adjust in the future.
Yo man the game told to go touch some grass
Trashing echo after getting 1 poor sub stat is wasteful considering how low the drop rates of echo with good main stats (i.e: ATK for cost 1, correct element bonus for cost 3, crit for cost 4). For me, i rather try 2 or 3 sub stat before deciding whether to trash the echo or continue, generally if i got at least 1 crit stat, then its good to continue levelling that echo. Reason behind this is because getting a good echo is lot harder than getting tubes/tuner, so good echo is more precious than tubes/tuner.
Good advice however, I roll to 25 and tuner them at 1 time. I've got all double crit on almost everyone
Lol it made me quit
😂 I would too if I minmax anything I just quit.
uhmm my Jinhsi's crit is 63.8/232....no signature-only lustrous razor - 43311 one spectro+one atk main stat on 3cost(couldn’t find good spectro damage pieces)
Should I leave her the way she is or should I farm more echoes 🥲? (Have Zhezhi)