Hi everyone! This was one of the technically hardest and most time consuming videos to produce, and I hope you enjoy the end result as much as we do. I think its probably one of the best we've put out. We don't have a sponsor for this one so the income is very uncertain, and its been a lean few months, so if you are able to spare anything to support the development of videos like this then it would be greatly appreciated www.patreon.com/historigraph
Hi...super minor note/correction...at :06 into the video, the narration identifies the plane from which the rocket was fired as an "A-4 Phantom"...but the Phantom was the F-4...the A-4 was the Skyhawk. It only matters a little bit because BOTH aircraft were on board the Forrestal, so the precise identification is needed to keep them straight, and I only mention it because I know you folks set such a high standard and want to hear from your audience if you do not get anything 100 percent correct...as long as we are constructive about it.👍
Hey@@iKvetch558 thanks for the comment - yes a couple of people have pointed that out. Annoyed with myself that I didn't catch a misspeak in the script before releasing. Sadly nothing I can do to correct now- but yes I am as frustrated as anyone
I watched your animated documentary, The Fight to Save the USS Forrestal. My name is Kenneth V. Killmeyer. I was a crew member aboard USS FORRESTAL on July 29, 1967. I am the Historian of the USS FORRESTAL Association, Inc. I wrote the book "FIRE FIRE FIRE ON THE FLIGHT DECK AFT, THIS IS NOT A DRILL." Before I wrote my book, I assisted Gregory Freeman with information to write his book "Sailors to the End." I enjoyed your documentary. Sincerely, Kenneth V. Killmeyer
My husband was on board the Forrestal when this all happened. His job required him to remain below decks at his post. This was the best documentary I have seen about the Forestall, and it helps me better understand what happened and how terrifying it had to have been for everyone on board.
Thus will sound weird coming from a total stranger but if he has or develops prostate cancer make sure he claims it with the VA - presumed Agent Orange / service related. I got 100%, abut $3,600 a month (and free rx's) (Oriskany and Coral Sea)
We still watch the original Navy training video developed about the USS Forrestal in boot camp. It serves as a chilling reminder of why every single sailor is firstly a firefighter and secondly a sailor. Edit: The US Navy, I mean. One can easily pass through boot camp without knowing how to tie a square knot or use communications equipment, but one will almost certainly have their graduation delayed or halted entirely for failure to demonstrate proficiency in firefighting.
@@historigraph That's interesting. In the US Navy, every sailor is required to watch the same footage used in this video (specifically, we watch the film "Trial by Fire: A Carrier Fights For Life") depicting the Forrestal incident, which acts as a "primer" of sorts before conducting a few days of firefighting training. One of the most important notes in the film is that, back then, no one really took strict procedures seriously. As you mentioned, it is likely that many safety pins in firing mechanisms were removed to save time. On top of this, only specialized sailors learned firefighting instead of all sailors, and firefighting equipment - both permanently installed and personnel-donned - was not as well maintained as they are now. Sailors who shouldn't have been on the flight deck in the first place were present and many of those who were actually working there were wearing little-to-no safety equipment. The Forrestal was definitely a huge turning point in naval protocols as this severity of fire incident could have occurred on any ship at that time, especially a forward-deployed carrier conducting sortees such as the Forrestal.
@@AURELlONS0L, I was in Basic Training ("boot camp") back in 1984 and still, to this day, remember that film and the lessons taught & learned from firefighting training. Your comment is spot on.
I remember watching it in boot. After the DC Chief replayed the 1st explosion and said that he was here train us to see that and still run in after to save the ship because underway we don't get to call a fire dept to come and help.
@@historigraph I don't know if you follow fellow RUclipsr The Mighty Jingles, served in the RN during GW1. He does a Mingles With Jingles video weekly, basically him rambling on about stuff including his RN service. I've heard him stress that EVERYONE on board has at least basic fire fighting / damage control training.
One thing the USN has always done well is learn hard lessons when it needs to. While every sailor killed or injured on the Forrestal is a tragedy, the fact it meant the USN relearned the WWII doctrine of the entire crew being the damage control team has probably saved countless lives; from the smallest mishap to major incidents (The USS Samuel B Roberts heroic damage control efforts springs to mind).
The USN learned a lot of very hard lessons during WW2 and it will be damned if they want to relearn them again. But time is never kind to lessons and procedures and sometimes It takes another tragedy like this to act as a shock to the system
@@alexdrockhound9497 You could consider that to be yet another achievement in damage prevention and damage control. Unfortunately the faulty torpedoes only mitigated damage to enemy ships.
Ex-Forrestal sailor here...I did the last 2 operational deployments in 1989-90 & 1991. Not only did I get firefighting training in boot camp, I got additional training due to being assigned to the aviation side of the US Navy. Reporting to Forrestal was humbling, especially when I saw the huge plaque that hung in Hangar Bay 1, commemorating those that had given their lives that day. I still recall going back aft to the Post Office on board, and noting that the deck was warped. When I asked about that, I was told that the Navy was never going to fix that as it would be too costly and it was a small reminder of what had happened. I had no idea that part of the problem was due to old ordinance - the Navy training films only talked about the rocket firing, the devastation. the heroics of those that fought the fires, and the sadness of those that were killed in that tragic accident. Not many know this, but in 1989 while in port a sailor deliberately set a fire in one of the flight deck elevator shafts in the hopes of being able to stay in port a little longer. That fire caused several million dollars worth of damage and the 6-month deployment was delayed by about 3 weeks while repairs were made - the rest of the task force headed out on deployment on schedule.
@@jeffbenton6183 He was caught before we even did repairs and left port. However, on the day before we were due to leave port after the repairs were completed, a local news station was interviewing a different sailor. This sailor said he didn't think we were ready to leave but the Captain was pushing us to leave as we were already behind schedule. PSA: as a regular sailor, you don't EVER make those claims, and certainly not to news stations. The next day, after we left the pier, the Captain bellowed out over the 1MC (the speaker system that goes to every space on the ship) that he wanted THAT guy in his office in < 10 minutes, alone or with help, and he didn't care how many flights of stairs that guys fell UP on the way there. 🤣
This story is told to every sailor in bootcamp, and every single sailor is supposed to learn the difference between using different chemicals on different fires
I served in V3 div from 89-92. The 89 deployment I arrived onboard a cod as soon as the FID got to the Mediterranean. I always knew the deployment was delayed but didn’t know why.
I went to boot in '87 at Great Mistakes and we did not do fire fighting training. I was EPO - I would have been responsible for those grades and making sure everyone was ready for the test. I do not recall any PT that involved fire fighting. We had to demonstrate basic seamanship, but it was like a single day and it was on a fake ship. No fire fighting. I was Aviation. I ended up taking a class on 32nd street before my first workup. I basically couldn't go to sea until I finished that training.
It was only the fact they were on the deck and far above the waterline that saved the ship. It was all of the fuel that was the bigger danger. The bombs opened a big hole for tons of burning fuel to pour down into the bowels of the ship.
The thing that saved thw ship was the purpose if the bombs. They were high explosive, meant to deal damage to a infantry position, not a carrier flight Deck
My grandmother's brother was a sailor aboard Forrestal when this occurred. He didn't talk much about his service(because aside from this fire it "wasn't very eventful, being a deckhand during the Vietnam War was like being a worker ant in summer" as he said), but did talk about the fire a little. He wasn't on the deck when it occurred but rushed up when the bombs started going off, and helped with the firefighting. Thanks for the great video Historigraph, amazing quality as usual.
My grandfather was a radioman on the USS Bonhomme Richard at that time and vividly remembers dispatching helicopters and destroyers to go assist in the containment of the fire on the Forrestal. RIP to all the sailors who lost their lives.
The ability of the navy to control fires on ships has always amazed me. Maybe it's just personal ignorance of their capabilities but the fact they were able to keep the ship seaworthy and continue operating it even with all their mistakes is crazy to me
@@ryanbarrows2592 there were not a small number of lessons that we forgot however. One of the primary differences between US and Japanese damage control in WWII was that the majority of US sailors were sufficiently proficient to assist in fighting a fire. While it wasn't to the extent of today where everyone receives dedicated training, people knew where the equipment was stored, who to look to for instruction, and most of the equipment had pictorial instructions right on it for how to use it in the event no specialized damage control team members were present. It was also very typical for ordinary sailors, including officers, to participate in damage control team drills and so while the training wasn't formal one could say a lot of personnel were 'trained'.
@@historigraphIn fairness, before the tri-service designation system in 1962 the Navy Phantoms were known as A-4s as well 😅😅 the US designation system for ya.
@@adder3597 What is your source for that? The A-4 Skyhawk was already in use. There would be no reason to put an air superiority fighter into the ground attack category…and give it the number of an already serving aircraft
She was derisively known as the USS Forestfire when I went through Navy Boot in '80. You had to be able to float, swim and evade burn damage in the water as well as basic fire-fighting skills if you wanted to graduate on time and not be set-back a week or more from your company.
@@jasonirwin4631, With the state of the fleet some sources are reporting recently it's reassuring to know some important things _aren't_ being neglected
I went through RTC Orlando in '78. One of our Company Commanders got orders to the Forrestal after he left RTC. I was ship's company in AIMD on the Saratoga, and he recognized me on the pier and called out to me when we were both at Mayport. I saw on one of the Forrestal's cruise books where he made BTC while he was on board.
Perfect example of the Swiss Cheese Model where the disaster wasn't caused by a single point of failure but a variety of factors that, if any were not present, wouldn't have spiraled into a disaster.
Swiss Cheese mostly made by desk sailing admirals in safe jobs far from action. Those expired best before date bombs using badly aging volatile explosive and misstored to literally pre cook them to ignite from possibly even minor force should have never been sent to fleet.
I was an aviation ordnancemen and this was really cool to watch. Ive been through so much of this training aboard a carrier. It was cool how you involved the crew that gave it all and reconized them for the heros they are.
Well done to all involved producing this one. Excellent review of a very tragic and horrible situation. During my Navy career '69 to '92 we studied this disaster over and over to emphasize the importance of damage control shipboard. Firefighting schools (I attended two of them over 21 years) put folks in actual fires and taught the proper firefighting techniques to minimize casualties and damage - there are few things more inspirational than standing on gratings in a very narrow enclosed space with fuel oil burning directly beneath your feet. As the old saying goes, "Every Marine a rifleman.", also the truth, "Every sailor a firefighter.".
The USAs Military legacy and tradition was all for naught, all those who sacrificed are disrespected by our current administration. We no longer have a country if this contines.
As somebody who was taught about this accident in U.S. Navy boot camp and studied it again at firefighting school for the Navy, thank you for covering this event and your dedication to details. You actually taught me a few things about the events leading up to the accident. Thankfully I never had to use my training for anything serious, but I was glad I was prepared because you just never know what could happen on an aircraft carrier.
As a young sailor in boot camp in 1978, the videos we saw of this made a lasting impression, as i'm sure they still do today. I served with a man that was trapped below decks by the fire. There were several men trapped that all believed they would die that day. It haunted him still, after all those years.
While the disaster on the Forrestal was well before my time, I have a very close friend who was on deck that day. He was one of the many sailors who ended up having to jump into the ocean after being trapped by the fire, but he was able to pull a wounded Skyhawk pilot out of his plane before he was burned alive. Years later he met that pilot again and learned that he still had scars on both legs where my friend had cut him out of his harness so that he could pull him out of the cockpit. Scars or not, he was still pretty damn grateful for what my friend did that day!
The fire on the forestal is still used to show what NOT to do in case of a fire onboard. The fire did about 1/10th the damage that the excessive use of water did. Now, Every member of the Canadian Navy is trained to fight fires.
I was the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Officer on the USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31), one of the 2 other CVAs on Yankee Station when this “accident ” happened. All the CVAs, and CO’s were in “competition” to get as many sorties of the deck as possible. This “accident” happened because the CO approved removing the arming pins before the aircraft arrived on the catapults. None of the other CVA CO’s approved this dangerous action. The result, the worst possible disaster ever on an aircraft carrier to date.”
This angle was brought up during the investigation and was dismissed as a theory. There was nothing to support this actually even happend. It was all sailor hearsay.
Yep that sounds like CO decision for sure. Also why would you try to slow down the carrier when you got an active fire on deck?!,, one thing at a time stop dividing your attention and the crews’ attention.
@@Yora21But that's exactly why you have multiple layers of safety. A single point of failure will inevitably lead to disaster via human error/mechanical failure at some point.
Once again blowing us all away with this incredible insight into this tragedy. Ive said this once before and I'll say it again, you are the best history channel on YT. There aren't many channels whose videos I actually rewatch and return to.
I was onboard a British Royal Navy frigate out in he Far East at the time and we visited Olongapo after this incident and passed Forestall , moored up , as we sailed in . It was a very sad poignant sight . RIP all you brave fellow mariners .
If I remember correctly from another documentary on this incident, they were able to pin down exactly when the missile launched from a flash reflection off the glass around the PLAT camera. A little bit of interesting forensics helped figure out exactly what happened.
My fire training chief in boot camp was in GSE and moving aircraft during the fire. Saw his chief blown in half during one of the explosions. He made us take our training very seriously.
I remember reading somewhere the ordinance officer was so concerned with how degraded the bombs were that they kept them on the flight deck because they didn’t want them potentially going off in the bomb magazine. They also were concerned the shock of carrier takeoff might set the old bombs off.
@@bob80q you missed the second part of age and improper storage. They were stored in open air Quonset huts at Subic Bay for years. The ordnance office at Subic Bay apparently refused to transfer the bombs until given a written order absolving the detachment of wrongdoing if something happened with the bombs. Part of that was why the bombs were stored in the bomb farm and not internally.
@@bob80q, The supply officer at the land ammunition depot who was ordered to transfer the bombs wrote that they were significantly corroded and that there was a visible residue on the exterior of the main bomb casing that indicated that the explosive inside had severely degraded and that some of the severely degraded explosive had oozed past some of the joints and fasteners on the exterior of the casing. The aircraft carrier's lead ordnance personnel immediately complained and issued numerous warnings about the bombs when they first saw the bombs being brought onboard, but safety was ignored because "reasons".
We were taught about the Forrestal, the fire, and the lessons learned from it during the firefighting and damage control portions of Navy basic training. A few things are often left out: below decks, the fire was hell. You could not be certain which decks were still stable enough to walk on, or which hatches, when opened, would bring oxygen into a hidden part of the fire, turning the compartment you were standing in into a fireball. Thick, black smoke entirely obscured vision in passageways around the fire, making it difficult to know where you were, where you were going, or if the fire had spread behind the screen of smoke. Many crew fought the fire without sufficient PPE, as regulations were laxly enforced and many crew just weren't trained in firefighting and damage control they way they are today. When you're in a confined space with a fire, the surfaces can reflect the heat back, making it feel much, _much_ hotter. You have no escape: you're in a room with the fire, and going outside means going into the ocean. It is do or die.
When you go through navy boot camp, they show the original video and why this happened and why there are strict rules. When the Missile missfired, everyone went to go fight the fire, which was a class Bravo fire or fire involving oil so water did nothing, most of the crew used water to try to hose down the fire, but when those that had the fire training responded to the fire they used AFFF to choke out the fire, but the crew didnt know so they would just keep washing away the foam. Some jets had to be pushed into the Sea because they became Class Delta fires which makes the metals combustible, this is called Jettison. Alot of the crew didnt have proper equipment to fight fire. Some were shirtless, some wore just a Tshirt. Because of this, They make Recruits Take this class as a mandatory class.
I went to the Farrier school every year I was on active duty. They drilled, and drilled, and drilled everything into our heads and taught us well. To this day I still remember 95% of what I was taught. The mantra was simple. Learn or burn, baby. Learn or burn.
every time i see this guy post. idc what im doing i drop it and watch it. ive been paid to watch 95% of his content so far. Watching at work is great. lmfao Keep it up.
I just got paid to watch this video as well, lol.(Well, I got paid while watching it, not paid to watch it.) I'm usually very happy to watch them for free, so this is an absolute win haha.
As much as I love your battle and campaign videos, I really love these videos you do on individual incidents in painstaking detail. Keep up the good work.
Originally, I was going to comment that you were wrong to say some had no fire fighting experience, since all USN sailors are qualified firefighters. You can’t get out of boot camp without passing that part of your training. I served on The Independence, a Forrestal Class carrier, and it just occurred to me that this fire is probably the reason we had that training in the first place. They really drilled the four classifications of fire and the different approach to fighting each one. That must have a lot to do with the issues they had with foam and water. Thanks for the great work on this video
This shipboard fire / disaster is trained on regularly and because of it, major changes to damage control practices and training requirements occurred. It sadly claimed many lives, and improvements were borne in blood.
All those who served in the Navy know well how delicate fires aboard ships are... That's why now EVERYBODY in the Navy needs to know about firefighting and be prepared to fight a fire at any time, no matter their role on the ship.
My grandfather was one of the firefighting specialist who was blown up by one of the bombs and almost died but was saved when one of his friends rushed in and dragged him out of the fire
My grandfather was on this ship, I remember going to the reunion in Washington DC when I was little. I never truly knew what he went through but because of your documentary I do and I’m so grateful to be here.
My co-worker’s a Damage Controlman served onboard the USS New Orleans (LPH-11) from 1991-1993. During boot camp and MOS training he watch the accident footage. One particular moment he saw in the footage still haunts him to this day. Below deck there were 5 or more Sailors rolling bombs off the deck by hand dumping them to the ocean trying to prevent things from getting worse each bomb weighed about 900lbs, later on he described a huge blinding flash of light appeared and after that those 5+ Sailors disappeared and he ment disappeared as in Vaporized.
I haven’t watched you for a good amount of time and this video popped into my recommended I decided to click on it and in the first 10 seconds I was already sucked into the video thanks for this great experience and keep up the good work :)
U.S.N. Retired, '75-'95. The black-and-white plat-camera and other footage were shown in boot-camp (RTC San Diego for me) as part of the damage-control training, the film was titled "Learn or burn". Some of the chiefs that were doing the training lecture had been there, or knew someone who had been. If anything was taken deadly serious, THIS was it! I did a stint attached to the air dep't on a CVN, and to say that DC/Firefighting was taken seriously is an understatement. Well done on the video.
Absolutely. I served in 05-09 and I remember being stunned at the footage we were shown about this accident and how seriously DC and firefighting training had to be because of it.
The map of all the people plus the real camera footage made for a very entertaining and informative video. I can’t imagine how much time and effort it took to make it all. Many thanks. I also appreciated the list of those involved in the disaster and the short moment of silence for them. It really emphasizes the fact that these are more than numbers, they are people. If you ask me, all the hard work for this video payed off.
A good friend of my dad and I served on board the Forrestal when the fire broke out. He told me the story and I could barely believe it. I mean, I did, but it was so large I was just surprised. Now seeing this I have a better understanding and appreciation for him.
Welcome back Historigraph, it is always good to see your videos and a well done to the animation, the quality has greatly improved since the early years when I have found your channel.
Thank you for producing this video. I was a motion picture camera In-Country and was assigned to shoot stock footage of Forrestal and her Air Group in combat operations. This was to be released to the civilian news media. As such, I was in Forrestal's COD aircraft waiting to fly out to the ship. It took a long time before we took off and when we had returned to the Operations Building, I asked the pilot what was happening. He replied, "I don't know - something is happening on the ship!" What was happening was the disaster which I missed out on in the time it would have taken to fly out to the ship!
I attended a Maritime Academy. And in the late 1980's, video of the Forrestal fire, was day one of fire fighter training, which they never stopped beating into us. Thirty five years later, and that training is still holding strong.
Very well done presentation. I was Naval Aviation for 21 years. This incident is used as a teaching tool for every Sailor that joins the Navy. In Aviation, every member of the crew on that deck is now firefighting qualified. It's a skill that is periodically reviewed and renewed, and is a skill we hope to never need to use.
heroic indeed ...but the tragedy here is that they were unaware that the bombs were old and where about to explode much earlier than they were able to anticipate
OP your hard work in preparing this documentary really shows, it is first-class. Lots of people make YT documentaries, not all of them can make them interesting, as this one is! Thanks, please make lots more esp on Vietnam air war, maybe even on Brown water navy in Vietnam too. There are thousands of topics re Vietnam war to explore, I can't imagine you will ever run out of them!
Sure looked like him. A visit to his Wikipedia page confirms it and notes that he was shot down three months later after receiving shrapnel wounds from one of the exploding bombs and then volunteering to fly off the Oriskany when he recovered enough to return to duty.
What an extraordinary story! Ordinance can be just as dangerous to its own side when handled improperly. I'm recalling the tendency of British battlecruisers at Jutland to blow up because their crews were bypassing safety measures to be able to maintain their rate of fire.
Thank you for this video. I was on the USS Bon Homme Richard CVA-31 and we were one of the first ships to arrive to help with that fire. I was Damage Control at the time. When you can step off a helo and hear your shoe souls hiss, it worries you. It was long hours until it was under control one deck above the bomb bay. Several jets had to be pushed off the flight deck to save the ship. Too many died or were injured.
You have done a great job of telling the story of the fire on board the USS Forrestal. This sort of thing is what social media should be used for (as opposed to videos of the Cardassians or almost anything else.) At the 7 second mark, the audio says that a rocket from an "A-4 Phantom" was launched. I think that should be an "F-4 Phantom." I wondered whether I should say anything about this mistake, b/c the video constitutes a lot of good work in which you got many things right. Alas there is only so much that can be put into a video. I remembered reading about some sailors that were trapped below decks during the fire. I remembered reading about other sailors that evacuated their posts before the fire got them, but they turned on the ship's fire suppression system(s) as they evacuated, there-by hindering the fire's progression. I also remembered that some of the inexperienced fire fighters realized that the ship had an oxygen generator that had to be protected from the fire, otherwise the oxygen generator would have caught fire and burned through a few decks of the ship. Great job - once again.
5:28. Yes, that's the same John McCain who would later be Representative then Senator from Arizona, 1983-2018. He also unsuccessfully ran for President in 2000 and 2008.
I was waiting for when someone would bring up this bullshit. McCain was on the opposite side of the F-4 in an A-4. He did not have any Zuni rockets. And NO he didn't to a "hot start". A**hole.
See i find this is one of the more interesting ones you have done, because you have the video to back up what you're saying which really adds an extra element to it all
This brought many memories from serving on a US Fast Attack Submarine. We ran fire and flood drills several times a week when boat not on station, even when tied to the peir. Fires are one of the most feared casualties on a submarine. Anyone that walked into the fire to put it out are far braver than I.
My grandfather was on the forrestal when it caught fire. He told me if he had not been cleaning the bathrooms he would’ve died in the explosion which blew right through where he would’ve been sleeping. His friends unfortunately were engulfed in the explosion and all of them passed away.
Fantastic video! You always do such a solid job, the animations really help visualize what's going on, especially in those situations when live video is either not available or unclear. One super minor nitpick for you, at 1:41, the ammunition ship is AE 19, USS Diamond Head. Named after the famous extinct volcanic crater in Hawaii, it was part of a long tradition of naming US Navy ammunition ships after volcanoes.
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 AE-11 Mount Hood unfortunately lived up to name.. "Mount Hood had been anchored in about 114 feet (35 m) of water. The initial explosion caused flame and smoke to shoot up from amidships to more than masthead height. Within seconds, the bulk of her cargo detonated with a more intense explosion. Mushrooming smoke rose to 7,000 ft (2,100 m), obscuring the ship and the surrounding area for a radius of approximately 500 yd (460 m). Mount Hood's former position was revealed by a trench in the ocean floor 300 ft (91 m) long, 50 ft (15 m) wide, and 30-40 ft (9-12 m) deep.The largest remaining piece of the hull was found in the trench and measured no bigger than 16 by 10 ft (5 by 3 m). No other remains of Mount Hood were found except fragments of metal which had struck other ships in the harbor... Even at a distance of 4,600 yards (4,200 m) from the ship the force of the explosion knocked Wallace and most of his men from their feet..."
I spent five years on the FID and my division officer was there the day that happened. My GQ station was on the hanger deck, and I, like every sailor, spent hours waiting around. As I did, I would look at the big, bronze plaque on the bulkhead on the forward starboard side. I read all the names many times. After the Forrestal was turned into razor blades, I often wondered what happened to that plaque.
I attended firefighting school in Navy boot camp, 1975. The then-unedited training film “Trial by Fire” that was shown us was absolutely terrifying… Strangely, the cause of the errant Zuni launch was then attributed to ‘stray voltage’… 19 years later I discovered that my wife’s father was on CVA59 that day, likely as a cook in the forward wardroom, away from most of the carnage. Still, he said he thought they were all going to die that day…
I remember in a documentary one of the huge concerns during the fire was that there were liquid oxygen tanks that could have gone up during the fire on the decks below where the fire was burning. They were *EXTREMELY* lucky those did not explode, because if they had gone off the resulting massive explosion would have forced the abandonment of the carrier itself.
@@NM-wd7kx - rewatch the video. Any bomb would have exploded in a similar set of circumstances. There are countless incidents where ordinance of any type cooks off in a fire. Research what happened to both the USS Oriskany & USS Enterprise. Both had fires start with different types of ordinance, and massive fires started. In the case of the USS Oriskany, it was a magnesium flare that two “kids” were playing with. Documentaries like this cause people to jump to conclusions without the full facts. As for using “WWII era bombs”, it was not limited to the U.S. Navy, as it was common during that period (1966 - 1967) that the USAF, USMC, and the VNAF used the same “WWII era bombs” - it was a result of DOD procurement & funding by the U.S. Congress.
@@NM-wd7kxBut they were running out of bombs. Like the narrator says, they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel. But if you still have a job to carry out then you gotta make due with what you've got. It was just a rough situation overall, it wasn't anyone's fault in particular.
Thank you. More harrowing What a guy the fireman tuned out to be, fretting over his comrades' safety. It seems the Navy relapsed into their superstitions and shunned the Captain. I hope the man was not overwhelmed by grief and abandonment.
It's thought he was deliberately trying to cool the bombs with his handheld fire extinguisher because he knew what a risk they were and was trying to buy time....
A USS Forrestal video was mandatory training when I was in naval boot camp in the 90s. It was a grainy, real-time, black and white video showing the deck fire. This would be a great update for sailors these days!
The change in safety proceedures were not approved or known of by CAPT Belig. By the way, the "bomb shortage" was officially denied. Also, Dave Dollarhide flew a privately owned A-4 up until very recently. There is a book called "Sailors To The End" that details the Forrestal Fire. The U.S. Navy's firefighting school is named after Chief Ferrier. And today, all sailors are also firefighters...
Overall very good video but there was one mistake . VF11 aircraft 110 is the aircraft that had the rocket cook off. Initially the investigation thought it was the port pod that the rocket fired from. Further and later investigation showed that it was the starboard rocket pod that was the one that the rocket left from. The reason I'm commenting on this is because I was aboard the Forresall .Add lost 44 of my ship mates in the fire.
Hi everyone! This was one of the technically hardest and most time consuming videos to produce, and I hope you enjoy the end result as much as we do. I think its probably one of the best we've put out. We don't have a sponsor for this one so the income is very uncertain, and its been a lean few months, so if you are able to spare anything to support the development of videos like this then it would be greatly appreciated www.patreon.com/historigraph
Hi...super minor note/correction...at :06 into the video, the narration identifies the plane from which the rocket was fired as an "A-4 Phantom"...but the Phantom was the F-4...the A-4 was the Skyhawk. It only matters a little bit because BOTH aircraft were on board the Forrestal, so the precise identification is needed to keep them straight, and I only mention it because I know you folks set such a high standard and want to hear from your audience if you do not get anything 100 percent correct...as long as we are constructive about it.👍
Hey@@iKvetch558 thanks for the comment - yes a couple of people have pointed that out. Annoyed with myself that I didn't catch a misspeak in the script before releasing. Sadly nothing I can do to correct now- but yes I am as frustrated as anyone
Absolutely worth it, fantastic video!
@@historigraph I blame the US Navy for having A-4 and F-4 on board at the same time. LOL
I watched your animated documentary, The Fight to Save the USS Forrestal.
My name is Kenneth V. Killmeyer. I was a crew member aboard USS FORRESTAL on July 29, 1967. I am the Historian of the USS FORRESTAL Association, Inc. I wrote the book "FIRE FIRE FIRE ON THE FLIGHT DECK AFT, THIS IS NOT A DRILL." Before I wrote my book, I assisted Gregory Freeman with information to write his book "Sailors to the End."
I enjoyed your documentary.
Sincerely,
Kenneth V. Killmeyer
somebody in the comments recommended sailors to the end as a read!
🫡
I've read both books.
I wonder if you knew a chief Graves..can't remember his first name..we were in the same "heavy" squadron in key west
Hi Ken, thanks for your comment
My husband was on board the Forrestal when this all happened. His job required him to remain below decks at his post. This was the best documentary I have seen about the Forestall, and it helps me better understand what happened and how terrifying it had to have been for everyone on board.
May Our Sweet Lord keep you both close..
I reccommend a book called "Sailors To The End".
If you don't mind me asking what is his name
I'm a Submarine Veteran and I proudly salute your husband.
Thus will sound weird coming from a total stranger but if he has or develops prostate cancer make sure he claims it with the VA - presumed Agent Orange / service related. I got 100%, abut $3,600 a month (and free rx's) (Oriskany and Coral Sea)
We still watch the original Navy training video developed about the USS Forrestal in boot camp. It serves as a chilling reminder of why every single sailor is firstly a firefighter and secondly a sailor.
Edit: The US Navy, I mean. One can easily pass through boot camp without knowing how to tie a square knot or use communications equipment, but one will almost certainly have their graduation delayed or halted entirely for failure to demonstrate proficiency in firefighting.
Yeah- interestingly my dad saw that same video during his time in the RN, so its significance really crossed borders
@@historigraph That's interesting. In the US Navy, every sailor is required to watch the same footage used in this video (specifically, we watch the film "Trial by Fire: A Carrier Fights For Life") depicting the Forrestal incident, which acts as a "primer" of sorts before conducting a few days of firefighting training. One of the most important notes in the film is that, back then, no one really took strict procedures seriously. As you mentioned, it is likely that many safety pins in firing mechanisms were removed to save time. On top of this, only specialized sailors learned firefighting instead of all sailors, and firefighting equipment - both permanently installed and personnel-donned - was not as well maintained as they are now. Sailors who shouldn't have been on the flight deck in the first place were present and many of those who were actually working there were wearing little-to-no safety equipment. The Forrestal was definitely a huge turning point in naval protocols as this severity of fire incident could have occurred on any ship at that time, especially a forward-deployed carrier conducting sortees such as the Forrestal.
@@AURELlONS0L, I was in Basic Training ("boot camp") back in 1984 and still, to this day, remember that film and the lessons taught & learned from firefighting training.
Your comment is spot on.
I remember watching it in boot. After the DC Chief replayed the 1st explosion and said that he was here train us to see that and still run in after to save the ship because underway we don't get to call a fire dept to come and help.
@@historigraph I don't know if you follow fellow RUclipsr The Mighty Jingles, served in the RN during GW1. He does a Mingles With Jingles video weekly, basically him rambling on about stuff including his RN service. I've heard him stress that EVERYONE on board has at least basic fire fighting / damage control training.
One thing the USN has always done well is learn hard lessons when it needs to. While every sailor killed or injured on the Forrestal is a tragedy, the fact it meant the USN relearned the WWII doctrine of the entire crew being the damage control team has probably saved countless lives; from the smallest mishap to major incidents (The USS Samuel B Roberts heroic damage control efforts springs to mind).
The USN learned a lot of very hard lessons during WW2 and it will be damned if they want to relearn them again. But time is never kind to lessons and procedures and sometimes It takes another tragedy like this to act as a shock to the system
And the USS Stark as well...
except with that torpedo in WWII. it took them AGES to fix that mess.
@@alexdrockhound9497 Ah the good ole Bureau of Ordinance. Every Sailors worst enemy
@@alexdrockhound9497 You could consider that to be yet another achievement in damage prevention and damage control. Unfortunately the faulty torpedoes only mitigated damage to enemy ships.
Ex-Forrestal sailor here...I did the last 2 operational deployments in 1989-90 & 1991. Not only did I get firefighting training in boot camp, I got additional training due to being assigned to the aviation side of the US Navy. Reporting to Forrestal was humbling, especially when I saw the huge plaque that hung in Hangar Bay 1, commemorating those that had given their lives that day. I still recall going back aft to the Post Office on board, and noting that the deck was warped. When I asked about that, I was told that the Navy was never going to fix that as it would be too costly and it was a small reminder of what had happened.
I had no idea that part of the problem was due to old ordinance - the Navy training films only talked about the rocket firing, the devastation. the heroics of those that fought the fires, and the sadness of those that were killed in that tragic accident.
Not many know this, but in 1989 while in port a sailor deliberately set a fire in one of the flight deck elevator shafts in the hopes of being able to stay in port a little longer. That fire caused several million dollars worth of damage and the 6-month deployment was delayed by about 3 weeks while repairs were made - the rest of the task force headed out on deployment on schedule.
What happened to the other sailor in '89? When did they catch him?
@@jeffbenton6183 He was caught before we even did repairs and left port. However, on the day before we were due to leave port after the repairs were completed, a local news station was interviewing a different sailor. This sailor said he didn't think we were ready to leave but the Captain was pushing us to leave as we were already behind schedule. PSA: as a regular sailor, you don't EVER make those claims, and certainly not to news stations. The next day, after we left the pier, the Captain bellowed out over the 1MC (the speaker system that goes to every space on the ship) that he wanted THAT guy in his office in < 10 minutes, alone or with help, and he didn't care how many flights of stairs that guys fell UP on the way there. 🤣
This story is told to every sailor in bootcamp, and every single sailor is supposed to learn the difference between using different chemicals on different fires
I served in V3 div from 89-92. The 89 deployment I arrived onboard a cod as soon as the FID got to the Mediterranean. I always knew the deployment was delayed but didn’t know why.
I went to boot in '87 at Great Mistakes and we did not do fire fighting training. I was EPO - I would have been responsible for those grades and making sure everyone was ready for the test. I do not recall any PT that involved fire fighting. We had to demonstrate basic seamanship, but it was like a single day and it was on a fake ship. No fire fighting. I was Aviation. I ended up taking a class on 32nd street before my first workup. I basically couldn't go to sea until I finished that training.
The fact that the forrestal was still floating after 9 1000 pound bombs exploded on it is truly insane
It shows how well built they are.
if yall don't mind I'm going with the ghost of CV-6 gave the ship the strength to take it
“I don’t hear no bell!”
-Forrestal
It was only the fact they were on the deck and far above the waterline that saved the ship. It was all of the fuel that was the bigger danger. The bombs opened a big hole for tons of burning fuel to pour down into the bowels of the ship.
The thing that saved thw ship was the purpose if the bombs. They were high explosive, meant to deal damage to a infantry position, not a carrier flight Deck
My grandmother's brother was a sailor aboard Forrestal when this occurred. He didn't talk much about his service(because aside from this fire it "wasn't very eventful, being a deckhand during the Vietnam War was like being a worker ant in summer" as he said), but did talk about the fire a little. He wasn't on the deck when it occurred but rushed up when the bombs started going off, and helped with the firefighting.
Thanks for the great video Historigraph, amazing quality as usual.
taste of their own medicine!!text-green-game-over
My grandfather was a radioman on the USS Bonhomme Richard at that time and vividly remembers dispatching helicopters and destroyers to go assist in the containment of the fire on the Forrestal. RIP to all the sailors who lost their lives.
@@dejuren1367karma?
@@dejuren1367 Real classy, bud
The ability of the navy to control fires on ships has always amazed me. Maybe it's just personal ignorance of their capabilities but the fact they were able to keep the ship seaworthy and continue operating it even with all their mistakes is crazy to me
You can do a *lot* when your life literally depends on it :-)
I mean... When you have nowhere to run and you cannot escape the fire, the only chance you have is trying to fight it.
Also speaks of bulletproof construction in the 1st place
@@outofturn331 Yeah, they learned a lot in WW2
@@ryanbarrows2592 there were not a small number of lessons that we forgot however. One of the primary differences between US and Japanese damage control in WWII was that the majority of US sailors were sufficiently proficient to assist in fighting a fire. While it wasn't to the extent of today where everyone receives dedicated training, people knew where the equipment was stored, who to look to for instruction, and most of the equipment had pictorial instructions right on it for how to use it in the event no specialized damage control team members were present. It was also very typical for ordinary sailors, including officers, to participate in damage control team drills and so while the training wasn't formal one could say a lot of personnel were 'trained'.
The A-4 is the Skyhawk, the Phantom is the F-4.
Ahh that is an annoying thing not to have caught in post. Misspoke while recording the script
Don’t sweat it, you’re great!
@@historigraphIn fairness, before the tri-service designation system in 1962 the Navy Phantoms were known as A-4s as well 😅😅 the US designation system for ya.
@@adder3597 What is your source for that? The A-4 Skyhawk was already in use. There would be no reason to put an air superiority fighter into the ground attack category…and give it the number of an already serving aircraft
@@rich7787source is the 1922 and 1962 designation systems
That video was absolutely riveting, and the roll of honour at the end was classy. That crew did some job in saving the ship.
Peering back into US Naval casualty history is a wonderful source of reflection and insight. Super well done. I'd love to see more stuff like this.
Thanks for the support :)
There's a strong code that the rules and standards are written in blood, this is a great example.
@@broworm1That's also said about aviation (not that this isn't aviation, it is, but with regards to commercial aviation).
@@bikeny yes! And same for the silent service i guess. The guys below the waves
She was derisively known as the USS Forestfire when I went through Navy Boot in '80. You had to be able to float, swim and evade burn damage in the water as well as basic fire-fighting skills if you wanted to graduate on time and not be set-back a week or more from your company.
I graduated from Boot camp in 2012 and the swim and damage control requirements still haven't changed.
@@jasonirwin4631,
With the state of the fleet some sources are reporting recently it's reassuring to know some important things _aren't_ being neglected
I went through RTC Orlando in '78. One of our Company Commanders got orders to the Forrestal after he left RTC. I was ship's company in AIMD on the Saratoga, and he recognized me on the pier and called out to me when we were both at Mayport. I saw on one of the Forrestal's cruise books where he made BTC while he was on board.
Perfect example of the Swiss Cheese Model where the disaster wasn't caused by a single point of failure but a variety of factors that, if any were not present, wouldn't have spiraled into a disaster.
Swiss Cheese mostly made by desk sailing admirals in safe jobs far from action.
Those expired best before date bombs using badly aging volatile explosive and misstored to literally pre cook them to ignite from possibly even minor force should have never been sent to fleet.
Great video. Accidents like the fire on the Forrestal reminds us that war is dangerous, even those who may have a "safe" posting are in harms way.
Work related accidents tend to be, when your work is WAR
I was an aviation ordnancemen and this was really cool to watch. Ive been through so much of this training aboard a carrier. It was cool how you involved the crew that gave it all and reconized them for the heros they are.
Well done to all involved producing this one. Excellent review of a very tragic and horrible situation. During my Navy career '69 to '92 we studied this disaster over and over to emphasize the importance of damage control shipboard. Firefighting schools (I attended two of them over 21 years) put folks in actual fires and taught the proper firefighting techniques to minimize casualties and damage - there are few things more inspirational than standing on gratings in a very narrow enclosed space with fuel oil burning directly beneath your feet. As the old saying goes, "Every Marine a rifleman.", also the truth, "Every sailor a firefighter.".
The USAs Military legacy and tradition was all for naught, all those who sacrificed are disrespected by our current administration. We no longer have a country if this contines.
As somebody who was taught about this accident in U.S. Navy boot camp and studied it again at firefighting school for the Navy, thank you for covering this event and your dedication to details. You actually taught me a few things about the events leading up to the accident. Thankfully I never had to use my training for anything serious, but I was glad I was prepared because you just never know what could happen on an aircraft carrier.
As a young sailor in boot camp in 1978, the videos we saw of this made a lasting impression, as i'm sure they still do today. I served with a man that was trapped below decks by the fire. There were several men trapped that all believed they would die that day. It haunted him still, after all those years.
"Boot camp?" I thought sailors wore tennis shoes
I went through RTC Orlando in '78. I was there 05May through 05JUL.
@@bobmarlowe3390 Great Lakes, July - September
My aunt's husband never knew his father. He was on deck that day. He was a hero. Chief Farrier, and his son later served on Forrestal.
While the disaster on the Forrestal was well before my time, I have a very close friend who was on deck that day. He was one of the many sailors who ended up having to jump into the ocean after being trapped by the fire, but he was able to pull a wounded Skyhawk pilot out of his plane before he was burned alive. Years later he met that pilot again and learned that he still had scars on both legs where my friend had cut him out of his harness so that he could pull him out of the cockpit. Scars or not, he was still pretty damn grateful for what my friend did that day!
Your friend was an ahole there to kill innocent Vietnamese civilians.
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
The fire on the forestal is still used to show what NOT to do in case of a fire onboard. The fire did about 1/10th the damage that the excessive use of water did. Now, Every member of the Canadian Navy is trained to fight fires.
I was the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Officer on the USS Bon Homme Richard (CVA-31), one of the 2 other CVAs on Yankee Station when this “accident ” happened. All the CVAs, and CO’s were in “competition” to get as many sorties of the deck as possible. This “accident” happened because the CO approved removing the arming pins before the aircraft arrived on the catapults. None of the other CVA CO’s approved this dangerous action. The result, the worst possible disaster ever on an aircraft carrier to date.”
This angle was brought up during the investigation and was dismissed as a theory. There was nothing to support this actually even happend. It was all sailor hearsay.
holy crap. That was a major f up.
As a Brit EOD officer there’s definitely an issue when people go off reservation with approved drills…
Yep that sounds like CO decision for sure. Also why would you try to slow down the carrier when you got an active fire on deck?!,, one thing at a time stop dividing your attention and the crews’ attention.
I didn't know that USS Bon Homme Richard was there, vaguely ironic...
It's amazing how removing some safety-pins to safe time can end up having a similar impact as a full-scale enemy attack.
Removing the pin alone would have done nothing.
Also connecting the cable to the missile at the same time is where it becomes truly negligent.
@@Yora21But that's exactly why you have multiple layers of safety. A single point of failure will inevitably lead to disaster via human error/mechanical failure at some point.
@@Yora21 The pin's there for a reason, someone will connect it up at somepoint....
Thank you for all your hard work producing such a first class documentary.
Once again blowing us all away with this incredible insight into this tragedy.
Ive said this once before and I'll say it again, you are the best history channel on YT. There aren't many channels whose videos I actually rewatch and return to.
I was onboard a British Royal Navy frigate out in he Far East at the time and we visited Olongapo after this incident and passed Forestall , moored up , as we sailed in . It was a very sad poignant sight . RIP all you brave fellow mariners .
The firefighting school being named after Farrier is so bittersweet. That courageous man knew his duty and was the first to run to the fire.
A respectful, tender and highly informative documentary piece about a little known disaster - excellent work. Thank you.
If I remember correctly from another documentary on this incident, they were able to pin down exactly when the missile launched from a flash reflection off the glass around the PLAT camera. A little bit of interesting forensics helped figure out exactly what happened.
My fire training chief in boot camp was in GSE and moving aircraft during the fire. Saw his chief blown in half during one of the explosions. He made us take our training very seriously.
I remember reading somewhere the ordinance officer was so concerned with how degraded the bombs were that they kept them on the flight deck because they didn’t want them potentially going off in the bomb magazine. They also were concerned the shock of carrier takeoff might set the old bombs off.
'Degraded bombs'??? WTF??
@@bob80q yeah, the composition B was breaking down due to age and decades of improper storage. He mentioned that in the video.
@@adamalton2436 that ordinance wasn't decades old, SOME of it might have been from the Korean War but most was newly manufactured.
@@bob80q you missed the second part of age and improper storage. They were stored in open air Quonset huts at Subic Bay for years. The ordnance office at Subic Bay apparently refused to transfer the bombs until given a written order absolving the detachment of wrongdoing if something happened with the bombs. Part of that was why the bombs were stored in the bomb farm and not internally.
@@bob80q,
The supply officer at the land ammunition depot who was ordered to transfer the bombs wrote that they were significantly corroded and that there was a visible residue on the exterior of the main bomb casing that indicated that the explosive inside had severely degraded and that some of the severely degraded explosive had oozed past some of the joints and fasteners on the exterior of the casing. The aircraft carrier's lead ordnance personnel immediately complained and issued numerous warnings about the bombs when they first saw the bombs being brought onboard, but safety was ignored because "reasons".
We were taught about the Forrestal, the fire, and the lessons learned from it during the firefighting and damage control portions of Navy basic training. A few things are often left out: below decks, the fire was hell. You could not be certain which decks were still stable enough to walk on, or which hatches, when opened, would bring oxygen into a hidden part of the fire, turning the compartment you were standing in into a fireball. Thick, black smoke entirely obscured vision in passageways around the fire, making it difficult to know where you were, where you were going, or if the fire had spread behind the screen of smoke. Many crew fought the fire without sufficient PPE, as regulations were laxly enforced and many crew just weren't trained in firefighting and damage control they way they are today. When you're in a confined space with a fire, the surfaces can reflect the heat back, making it feel much, _much_ hotter. You have no escape: you're in a room with the fire, and going outside means going into the ocean. It is do or die.
When you go through navy boot camp, they show the original video and why this happened and why there are strict rules. When the Missile missfired, everyone went to go fight the fire, which was a class Bravo fire or fire involving oil so water did nothing, most of the crew used water to try to hose down the fire, but when those that had the fire training responded to the fire they used AFFF to choke out the fire, but the crew didnt know so they would just keep washing away the foam. Some jets had to be pushed into the Sea because they became Class Delta fires which makes the metals combustible, this is called Jettison. Alot of the crew didnt have proper equipment to fight fire. Some were shirtless, some wore just a Tshirt. Because of this, They make Recruits Take this class as a mandatory class.
I went to the Farrier school every year I was on active duty. They drilled, and drilled, and drilled everything into our heads and taught us well. To this day I still remember 95% of what I was taught.
The mantra was simple. Learn or burn, baby. Learn or burn.
every time i see this guy post. idc what im doing i drop it and watch it. ive been paid to watch 95% of his content so far. Watching at work is great. lmfao Keep it up.
You get paid to watch this stuff? Pray tell how, sounds better than what I do for a living 🙂
I just got paid to watch this video as well, lol.(Well, I got paid while watching it, not paid to watch it.) I'm usually very happy to watch them for free, so this is an absolute win haha.
I'm just 6 seconds into the video and I heard an A4 phantom but the subtitles corrected you. congrats subtitles👏👍
As much as I love your battle and campaign videos, I really love these videos you do on individual incidents in painstaking detail. Keep up the good work.
Originally, I was going to comment that you were wrong to say some had no fire fighting experience, since all USN sailors are qualified firefighters. You can’t get out of boot camp without passing that part of your training. I served on The Independence, a Forrestal Class carrier, and it just occurred to me that this fire is probably the reason we had that training in the first place. They really drilled the four classifications of fire and the different approach to fighting each one. That must have a lot to do with the issues they had with foam and water.
Thanks for the great work on this video
Yep the Forrestal fire was massively influential in bringing in this level of firefighting training in not only the US Navy but others too
In navy boot camp when we learn firefighting, which is mandatory for everyone now they teach us heavily about the Forrestal.
This shipboard fire / disaster is trained on regularly and because of it, major changes to damage control practices and training requirements occurred. It sadly claimed many lives, and improvements were borne in blood.
All those who served in the Navy know well how delicate fires aboard ships are... That's why now EVERYBODY in the Navy needs to know about firefighting and be prepared to fight a fire at any time, no matter their role on the ship.
My grandfather was one of the firefighting specialist who was blown up by one of the bombs and almost died but was saved when one of his friends rushed in and dragged him out of the fire
Very informative and brought honor to those lost that day and to those who served. Well done.
My grandfather was on this ship, I remember going to the reunion in Washington DC when I was little. I never truly knew what he went through but because of your documentary I do and I’m so grateful to be here.
The Phantom is an F4,not an A4,the rocket hit the A4. Great video!
Yeah just seen another comment saying the same. I must've have misspoken while recording the script and then not picked it up in post
@@historigraph That is pretty much what I figured...you folks are so precise, it could only have been a minor error/misspeaking.😁
@@historigraph Been there done that myself! i absolutely love your content and wish you continued success!
Always a good day when Historigraph posts a new video.
Thanks for the support!
My co-worker’s a Damage Controlman served onboard the USS New Orleans (LPH-11) from 1991-1993. During boot camp and MOS training he watch the accident footage. One particular moment he saw in the footage still haunts him to this day. Below deck there were 5 or more Sailors rolling bombs off the deck by hand dumping them to the ocean trying to prevent things from getting worse each bomb weighed about 900lbs, later on he described a huge blinding flash of light appeared and after that those 5+ Sailors disappeared and he ment disappeared as in Vaporized.
The navy still shows the same video they have also added a video about the USS Cole.
The Forrestal fire is required viewing for Navy personnel for training. What to do and perhaps more importantly, what not to do.
I haven’t watched you for a good amount of time and this video popped into my recommended I decided to click on it and in the first 10 seconds I was already sucked into the video thanks for this great experience and keep up the good work :)
U.S.N. Retired, '75-'95. The black-and-white plat-camera and other footage were shown in boot-camp (RTC San Diego for me) as part of the damage-control training, the film was titled "Learn or burn". Some of the chiefs that were doing the training lecture had been there, or knew someone who had been. If anything was taken deadly serious, THIS was it! I did a stint attached to the air dep't on a CVN, and to say that DC/Firefighting was taken seriously is an understatement. Well done on the video.
Absolutely. I served in 05-09 and I remember being stunned at the footage we were shown about this accident and how seriously DC and firefighting training had to be because of it.
This is one of the lesser covered topics of naval history but it is so underrated. What a tragedy
The map of all the people plus the real camera footage made for a very entertaining and informative video. I can’t imagine how much time and effort it took to make it all. Many thanks.
I also appreciated the list of those involved in the disaster and the short moment of silence for them. It really emphasizes the fact that these are more than numbers, they are people.
If you ask me, all the hard work for this video payed off.
This is tragic but very informative, I normally am not interested in naval history but you somehow always make it very interesting
A good friend of my dad and I served on board the Forrestal when the fire broke out. He told me the story and I could barely believe it. I mean, I did, but it was so large I was just surprised. Now seeing this I have a better understanding and appreciation for him.
Welcome back Historigraph, it is always good to see your videos and a well done to the animation, the quality has greatly improved since the early years when I have found your channel.
Thank you for producing this video. I was a motion picture camera In-Country and was assigned to shoot stock footage of Forrestal and her Air Group in combat operations. This was to be released to the civilian news media. As such, I was in Forrestal's COD aircraft waiting to fly out to the ship. It took a long time before we took off and when we had returned to the Operations Building, I asked the pilot what was happening. He replied, "I don't know - something is happening on the ship!"
What was happening was the disaster which I missed out on in the time it would have taken to fly out to the ship!
NIce video. A miracle of bravery and determination.
I attended a Maritime Academy. And in the late 1980's, video of the Forrestal fire, was day one of fire fighter training, which they never stopped beating into us. Thirty five years later, and that training is still holding strong.
I was on her sister ship USS Saratoga CV-60.
The "ForresrFire" incident became an instant training film for the rest of the fleet.
I was on the Sara in '79 & '80.
Very well done presentation. I was Naval Aviation for 21 years. This incident is used as a teaching tool for every Sailor that joins the Navy. In Aviation, every member of the crew on that deck is now firefighting qualified. It's a skill that is periodically reviewed and renewed, and is a skill we hope to never need to use.
Indescribable respect for those fire fighters who ran towards the fire and fought to keep the bombs from cooking off.
heroic indeed ...but the tragedy here is that they were unaware that the bombs were old and where about to explode much earlier than they were able to anticipate
OP your hard work in preparing this documentary really shows, it is first-class. Lots of people make YT documentaries, not all of them can make them interesting, as this one is! Thanks, please make lots more esp on Vietnam air war, maybe even on Brown water navy in Vietnam too. There are thousands of topics re Vietnam war to explore, I can't imagine you will ever run out of them!
Just going to point out that it is THAT John McCain who's plane was hit by the initial Zuni rocket
Sure looked like him. A visit to his Wikipedia page confirms it and notes that he was shot down three months later after receiving shrapnel wounds from one of the exploding bombs and then volunteering to fly off the Oriskany when he recovered enough to return to duty.
Yes and he was NOT responsible for starting the fire which an amazing number of Trump people spread.
Incorrect. The A-4E next to McCain's was hit by the Zuni not his.
@@AA-xo9uwI just watched two documentaries that said it was John McCain plane that was hit.
@@sforza209 Those are incorrect. The official record and McCain's own later statements reflect the the Zuni hitting the plane next to McCain's.
Your animation is top-notch story telling. Excellent work!
My late grandfather left the Navy in’67. He told me had he stayed in, he’d been assigned to Forrestal.
The details like aircrafts number and positions of the crewmembers were incredible !
What an extraordinary story! Ordinance can be just as dangerous to its own side when handled improperly. I'm recalling the tendency of British battlecruisers at Jutland to blow up because their crews were bypassing safety measures to be able to maintain their rate of fire.
Thanks so much for your support! Just to let you know I think you may have done a duplicate comment
@@historigraph My pleasure! Ooo, yes, sorry. I'll see if I can fix it.
Thank you for this video. I was on the USS Bon Homme Richard CVA-31 and we were one of the first ships to arrive to help with that fire. I was Damage Control at the time. When you can step off a helo and hear your shoe souls hiss, it worries you. It was long hours until it was under control one deck above the bomb bay. Several jets had to be pushed off the flight deck to save the ship. Too many died or were injured.
Excellent video as always, you're by far one of my favorite channels on the platform
Very good presentation! Btw, for anyone interested, that three-digit identifier used by Navy aircraft is called a modex.
You have done a great job of telling the story of the fire on board the USS Forrestal. This sort of thing is what social media should be used for (as opposed to videos of the Cardassians or almost anything else.) At the 7 second mark, the audio says that a rocket from an "A-4 Phantom" was launched. I think that should be an "F-4 Phantom." I wondered whether I should say anything about this mistake, b/c the video constitutes a lot of good work in which you got many things right. Alas there is only so much that can be put into a video. I remembered reading about some sailors that were trapped below decks during the fire. I remembered reading about other sailors that evacuated their posts before the fire got them, but they turned on the ship's fire suppression system(s) as they evacuated, there-by hindering the fire's progression. I also remembered that some of the inexperienced fire fighters realized that the ship had an oxygen generator that had to be protected from the fire, otherwise the oxygen generator would have caught fire and burned through a few decks of the ship. Great job - once again.
5:28. Yes, that's the same John McCain who would later be Representative then Senator from Arizona, 1983-2018. He also unsuccessfully ran for President in 2000 and 2008.
ah, thank you. I was wondering. Hadn't had a chance to research.
I was waiting for when someone would bring up this bullshit. McCain was on the opposite side of the F-4 in an A-4. He did not have any Zuni rockets. And NO he didn't to a "hot start". A**hole.
Loved that guy. Great man!
And a POW for 6 years.
He was a fuck up his whole life. Graduated at the bottom of the Naval Academy.
See i find this is one of the more interesting ones you have done, because you have the video to back up what you're saying which really adds an extra element to it all
Everybody just, ignore the guy who got slapped in the face by a rocket
This brought many memories from serving on a US Fast Attack Submarine. We ran fire and flood drills several times a week when boat not on station, even when tied to the peir. Fires are one of the most feared casualties on a submarine. Anyone that walked into the fire to put it out are far braver than I.
My grandfather was on the forrestal when it caught fire. He told me if he had not been cleaning the bathrooms he would’ve died in the explosion which blew right through where he would’ve been sleeping. His friends unfortunately were engulfed in the explosion and all of them passed away.
Videos like these are the future of storytelling! Fantastic job.
Fantastic video! You always do such a solid job, the animations really help visualize what's going on, especially in those situations when live video is either not available or unclear. One super minor nitpick for you, at 1:41, the ammunition ship is AE 19, USS Diamond Head. Named after the famous extinct volcanic crater in Hawaii, it was part of a long tradition of naming US Navy ammunition ships after volcanoes.
Make sense, these things are indeed burn like volcanos.
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 AE-11 Mount Hood unfortunately lived up to name..
"Mount Hood had been anchored in about 114 feet (35 m) of water. The initial explosion caused flame and smoke to shoot up from amidships to more than masthead height. Within seconds, the bulk of her cargo detonated with a more intense explosion. Mushrooming smoke rose to 7,000 ft (2,100 m), obscuring the ship and the surrounding area for a radius of approximately 500 yd (460 m). Mount Hood's former position was revealed by a trench in the ocean floor 300 ft (91 m) long, 50 ft (15 m) wide, and 30-40 ft (9-12 m) deep.The largest remaining piece of the hull was found in the trench and measured no bigger than 16 by 10 ft (5 by 3 m). No other remains of Mount Hood were found except fragments of metal which had struck other ships in the harbor...
Even at a distance of 4,600 yards (4,200 m) from the ship the force of the explosion knocked Wallace and most of his men from their feet..."
Excellent video and definitely one of your best. Thank you for uploading and all the research that went into this.
I spent five years on the FID and my division officer was there the day that happened. My GQ station was on the hanger deck, and I, like every sailor, spent hours waiting around. As I did, I would look at the big, bronze plaque on the bulkhead on the forward starboard side. I read all the names many times. After the Forrestal was turned into razor blades, I often wondered what happened to that plaque.
I have read Sailors to the End five or six times and you have done a brilliant job of translating this to video format! Incredible video!
I attended firefighting school in Navy boot camp, 1975. The then-unedited training film “Trial by Fire” that was shown us was absolutely terrifying…
Strangely, the cause of the errant Zuni launch was then attributed to ‘stray voltage’…
19 years later I discovered that my wife’s father was on CVA59 that day, likely as a cook in the forward wardroom, away from most of the carnage. Still, he said he thought they were all going to die that day…
Part of the 7 day, release and control check, inspection now is to check for stray voltage.
@@TheDalhuckI should have stated more accurately that the cause was attributed to a malfunctioning stray voltage tester…
It was stray voltage - from the switch over from external to internal power. But the consequences of the lack of safety pin and connection...
Outstanding documentary, as usual. 💛🇬🇧
I remember in a documentary one of the huge concerns during the fire was that there were liquid oxygen tanks that could have gone up during the fire on the decks below where the fire was burning. They were *EXTREMELY* lucky those did not explode, because if they had gone off the resulting massive explosion would have forced the abandonment of the carrier itself.
Please cover the battle of Kohima! The most untalked about major British success of WW2. Thank you and carry on doing incredible work!
Strange how McCain got the blame for this for SO long.
Now this is a unique topic, great video!
This event was drilled into all of us who served on carriers. Flight crew, or ships company we all knew of this fateful day and what it cost.
I've never seen your channel before and saw pieces of this on tiktok, so I followed it back to here. GREAT video!
When top brass were at fault, blame the officer on deck.
How are “…top brass…” responsible?
@@JDFloydthey sent old bombs that weren't fit for service
@@NM-wd7kx - rewatch the video. Any bomb would have exploded in a similar set of circumstances. There are countless incidents where ordinance of any type cooks off in a fire. Research what happened to both the USS Oriskany & USS Enterprise. Both had fires start with different types of ordinance, and massive fires started. In the case of the USS Oriskany, it was a magnesium flare that two “kids” were playing with. Documentaries like this cause people to jump to conclusions without the full facts. As for using “WWII era bombs”, it was not limited to the U.S. Navy, as it was common during that period (1966 - 1967) that the USAF, USMC, and the VNAF used the same “WWII era bombs” - it was a result of DOD procurement & funding by the U.S. Congress.
@@NM-wd7kxBut they were running out of bombs. Like the narrator says, they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel. But if you still have a job to carry out then you gotta make due with what you've got. It was just a rough situation overall, it wasn't anyone's fault in particular.
It was the fault of anyone who accepted the bombs for service. Many people were concerned but nobody spoke up.
I don't normally comment, but I really enjoy your work and hope the algorithm helps you out.
Thank you. More harrowing
What a guy the fireman tuned out to be, fretting over his comrades' safety.
It seems the Navy relapsed into their superstitions and shunned the Captain. I hope the man was not overwhelmed by grief and abandonment.
It's thought he was deliberately trying to cool the bombs with his handheld fire extinguisher because he knew what a risk they were and was trying to buy time....
@@tomriley5790 that makes both sense and my hair point skyward.
A USS Forrestal video was mandatory training when I was in naval boot camp in the 90s. It was a grainy, real-time, black and white video showing the deck fire. This would be a great update for sailors these days!
The change in safety proceedures were not approved or known of by CAPT Belig.
By the way, the "bomb shortage" was officially denied.
Also, Dave Dollarhide flew a privately owned A-4 up until very recently.
There is a book called "Sailors To The End" that details the Forrestal Fire.
The U.S. Navy's firefighting school is named after Chief Ferrier.
And today, all sailors are also firefighters...
Overall very good video but there was one mistake . VF11 aircraft 110 is the aircraft that had the rocket cook off. Initially the investigation thought it was the port pod that the rocket fired from. Further and later investigation showed that it was the starboard rocket pod that was the one that the rocket left from. The reason I'm commenting on this is because I was aboard the Forresall .Add lost 44 of my ship mates in the fire.
Source I read said port side hence the depiction. Of course it could have been mistaken - just explaining why we visualised it that way
Excellent quality video, superb animations and great, clear narration.
John McCain was a total badass
Yes the disinformation campaign waged by Trump supporters was despicable
He served honourably and faced many hardships.
Excellent narrative and analysis with a superb animation, - subscribed.