+T.I.N Mateus Yes neither can I. And if you check my channel you will see I am a DX7 devotee. And while I wouldnt put this above the original 6 op monster. For a 4 op synth and user friendly interface. It really makes the wonderful sound of FM accessable to a wider audience. and I applaud that.
Is the feedback amount also affected by the operatr's envelope , like on the original dx synths . So we can go from saw to sine with a decaying envelope .? Itwold be a huge miss , if they disn't get that right .
Why do you say that no FM was involved in this demo? I thought you could not go more FM than having an oscillator being frequency modulated by itself! (correct me if I am wrong)
As we understand the Reface DX, the feedback parameter does not cause self-modulation, but it is a way to shape the wave seamlessly between sine, saw and square, thus recreating some of the functionality of other FM synths such as the TX81Z which had other waves than sine available for FM. With the original DX7, feedback was implemented differently.
From the Reface DX manual, it seems that it is actually real FM feedback being implemented in the synth architecture (not some different kind waveshaping technique as you are suggesting): "Waveforms can be changed by feeding some of the signal generated by an operator back through that operator". And if you go on reading you will find more info. It actually makes a lot of sense, as FM functionalities are already there in the firmware, why not use them for this kind of waveshaping purposes? So I really think it's wrong to say that no FM was involved in the demo ;) Anyways, great demo and lovely tune!
Thanks for pointing it out, it is indeed described that way in the manual! What threw me off is that it does not behave (nor sound) like the original DX7 feedback, and AFAIK it is tricky to achieve this kind of waveshaping with just FM. This warrants an update of the description, and possibly a follow-up with an oscilloscope :) Thanks!
Thank you for citing me in the updated video description, I am flattered ^^ I would like to investigate further as well...if you really make another video about this please give me a shout!
Too bad the feedback implementation is pre amplitude envelope . In other words , the envelope will have no effect on the feedback amount . In the dx series ( only + feedback ) the feedback is post amp.envelope . Adjusting the operator envelope ,fast decaying , will also affect the feedback amount ....so the operator will go from saw ---> to sine . Sadly this is.not possible on the reface . I am still gonna hold on to my nord modular g1 , which can do everything the reface does , including negative feedback for the square wave ...which is bassicaly the powered output of the operator back into itself =square wave . Real negatve feedback ( inversed ) is just an inverted saw ..
Thanks for the comment, agree that they have simplified feedback in a sense on the Reface DX, but we think they just tried to make it more intuitive or easier to use than the "old" feedback, which was notoriously tricky to get "right", but was also quite powerful in its own way. The NM1 is also a wonderful instrument!
And NM1 was also in a whole another price category (still running at something like 500-700$ 2nd hand) than Reface systems are. Just saying. ;) But man, can't argue how much I salivated after those back in the days.
I understand your disappointment, but at the same time I don't see this as a real weakness...it's simply a different architecture, and it still makes sense to have the feedback loop before the gain envelope in the signal chain...of course it depends on the sound you want to achieve. With the Reface, you can still shift smoothly from saw to sine: you simply avoid using feedback for this purpose and you just need an extra operator (well, I agree that this is not ideal as the synth provides only 4 operators)
Man, again a great video! Really good demo, Yamaha should hire you. :)
This is realy what I was looking for.
Still can't believe how good this synth sounds,Instantly new ideas pop up in my mind for going and using it to record my new album.
+T.I.N Mateus
Yes neither can I. And if you check my channel you will see I am a DX7 devotee. And while I wouldnt put this above the original 6 op monster. For a 4 op synth and user friendly interface. It really makes the wonderful sound of FM accessable to a wider audience. and I applaud that.
Really helpful. Thank you.
Is the feedback amount also affected by the operatr's envelope , like on the original dx synths .
So we can go from saw to sine with a decaying envelope .?
Itwold be a huge miss , if they disn't get that right .
luv it
Why do you say that no FM was involved in this demo? I thought you could not go more FM than having an oscillator being frequency modulated by itself! (correct me if I am wrong)
As we understand the Reface DX, the feedback parameter does not cause self-modulation, but it is a way to shape the wave seamlessly between sine, saw and square, thus recreating some of the functionality of other FM synths such as the TX81Z which had other waves than sine available for FM. With the original DX7, feedback was implemented differently.
From the Reface DX manual, it seems that it is actually real FM feedback being implemented in the synth architecture (not some different kind waveshaping technique as you are suggesting): "Waveforms can be changed by feeding some of the signal generated by an operator back through that operator". And if you go on reading you will find more info. It actually makes a lot of sense, as FM functionalities are already there in the firmware, why not use them for this kind of waveshaping purposes? So I really think it's wrong to say that no FM was involved in the demo ;) Anyways, great demo and lovely tune!
Thanks for pointing it out, it is indeed described that way in the manual! What threw me off is that it does not behave (nor sound) like the original DX7 feedback, and AFAIK it is tricky to achieve this kind of waveshaping with just FM. This warrants an update of the description, and possibly a follow-up with an oscilloscope :) Thanks!
Thank you for citing me in the updated video description, I am flattered ^^ I would like to investigate further as well...if you really make another video about this please give me a shout!
What sequencer?
Too bad the feedback implementation is pre amplitude envelope .
In other words , the envelope will have no effect on the feedback amount .
In the dx series ( only + feedback ) the feedback is post amp.envelope .
Adjusting the operator envelope ,fast decaying , will also affect the feedback amount ....so the operator will go from saw ---> to sine .
Sadly this is.not possible on the reface .
I am still gonna hold on to my nord modular g1 , which can do everything the reface does , including negative feedback for the square wave ...which is bassicaly the powered output of the operator back into itself =square wave .
Real negatve feedback ( inversed ) is just an inverted saw ..
Thanks for the comment, agree that they have simplified feedback in a sense on the Reface DX, but we think they just tried to make it more intuitive or easier to use than the "old" feedback, which was notoriously tricky to get "right", but was also quite powerful in its own way. The NM1 is also a wonderful instrument!
And NM1 was also in a whole another price category (still running at something like 500-700$ 2nd hand) than Reface systems are. Just saying. ;) But man, can't argue how much I salivated after those back in the days.
I understand your disappointment, but at the same time I don't see this as a real weakness...it's simply a different architecture, and it still makes sense to have the feedback loop before the gain envelope in the signal chain...of course it depends on the sound you want to achieve. With the Reface, you can still shift smoothly from saw to sine: you simply avoid using feedback for this purpose and you just need an extra operator (well, I agree that this is not ideal as the synth provides only 4 operators)