I love these videos. Subject matter is interesting, as are the photos that accompany it. Narrator has clear diction, pronunciation is spot on. 1 complaint. I wish they were 2-3 hours long! xx Thank you Steve xx
I really like the fact that with a few exceptions I’ve never heard of these murders or the perpetrators. Another grim and brutal story beautifully presented . Thank you Steve …
Yet another great case Steve, well done on these awful murders but it seems justice was served. Those were the days when judges had the title "justice" and deserved it, now they still have the title but unable to carry out what they stand for. RIP to the dear victim.
Thanks for another great upload. I believe Eltof attoned for his sins in his service. I doubt he was involved in the actual murder. Look forward to the next one Steve.
Thanks Steve for another excellent video of the justified sentence of George Ball . His partner in crime Mr E. May have escaped the hangman , the terror of fighting on the front in WWI probably made him wish for a calm death instead of what the typical WWI soldier faced. Have a great day!
Great presentation as always beautifully related. Ball was correctly found guilty which his confession to the Bishop of Liverpool confirms. I looked at the Commonwealth War Graves website where details of where all WW1 fallen are buried or commemorated on a memorial are recorded. . There is no record of Samuel Angeles Eltoft. Did he enlist and die under another name perhaps not wishing upon enlisting to reveal his real name and infamous past?
@@nicolad8822 Well researched. As I said, had he died it would have been recorded on the CWWG website. Maybe he got it put it about "unofficially" that he had died so he could live his life postwar without being remembered for his part on the murder. Perhaps he lived on with a changed name? We shall never know!
was only thinking during the video..."That`s one heck of a way to avoid WW1!!"....then u revealed the lad was sent to the trenches and killed in action.I think it was a tall order for them to expect the body to have been washed out to sea,....from a canal...so many things that would stop its progress....another fascinating episode Steve...Thank you
Another excellent account, Steve, many thanks. If Eltoft had actually played a greater part in the murder, why didn’t Ball say so? After all, Eltoft had had no hesitation in implicating Ball. The money found in Eltoft’s bedroom could have been saved or given to him. On the other hand, why didn’t Eltoft immediately go to the police after the murder, rather than helping Ball dispose of the body? Perhaps he did get off lightly.
Imagine Ball being stupid enough to go to a football match a few days after the murder! Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box. Disguise or not, he almost certainly would have been recognised by someone, which indeed he was! Eltoft, hard to know how much he was involved, but his defence must have made a strong case because there was little mercy back then!!
Great episode Steve. Poor lady murdered in such a brutal way by employees to whom she had given a secure living. Eltoft should certainly have been glad to have had his life spared and just accepted his sentence. Was it ever established that the money concealed in his room was the proceeds of the robbery or his own personal savings from his wages?
Was not able to be present for the live show. Just now listened. Concluded that Ball was certainly guilty. Think the sentence for Elliot was correct. Not persuaded he was KIA in WWI. Do consider justice was done.
Was the money forced on Eltoft by Ball ? Taken in the confusion of the moment and then, fearful of how it would implicate him, undecided of what to do with it, simply hidden ? Still very young, scared and wanting decisions taken out of his hands he may well have been coerced by his mother and others into appealing the sentence.. we'll never know. Interesting article seen on the newspaper clip at 13:00.. an early announcement of what became Shackleton's famous attempt at a Trans-Antarctic expedition, still then labelled the 'Stackhouse expedition'.
It was a heinous crime as most murders are. Sounds like the jury did a good job as well as the Judge. I feel that a green Eltoft was maybe a bit scared of Ball, & didn't want to suffer the same fate. I would have been shocked if he was sent to be hanged. His sentence was just enough to let him know that not coming forward, he could have shared Ball's sentence.
I have just checked with the Commonwealth War Graves website and there is no record of S.A Eltoft - there are 4 Eltoft's but all were killed later - 1917 & 1919
It looks like Elltoft did survive the war. There is a pension record which fits. Quite difficult to read, but Kings Liverpool Regiment, father’s name the same, date of enlistment coincides with his prison release in Feb 1917, described as an apprentice carpenter, his Dad’s occupation. He had been in France as a Platoon Gunner and was suffering with “disorderly action of the heart”, some discussion on what that means but seems a mostly psychological condition caused by stress and fatigue rather than an obvious problem with the heart, though he reports he was gassed too. Can’t find him post war for now though his mother’s burial record says Elltoft otherwise Johnson, her maiden name, so maybe he used that. The Angeles as his middle name comes from his father working in Los Angeles in the 1880s, he was even naturalised, but obviously returned.
Once again your extra bit of research is most appreciated. Thanks :) I only had the Liverpool Echo as my source that he was KIA and as they repeated it through the decades I assumed it must have been correct....
My first thought was that the 'accomplice was spared the Western Front with his four year sentence only for Steve to say a few moments later that he was released early to fight and indeed died in, presumably, France.
Even if Eltoft was as guilty as Ball, I don't mind how things worked out. If Eltoft hadn't been in France when the artillery round blew him to pieces, then some other young English man would have been standing in the same spot. Thus the judge's mercy saved someone else from becoming just another casualty in bloody and stupid war.
I think, in all fairness, justice was done. The killer may well have given the young man some cash. (We will never know). But that was not proven in court, nor was any mention made via Police interview of the cash stolen. ie "How much did you steal?" "What did you do with the money?" Pretty basic questions the Police should have asked. I would say the young man escaped the noose by way of Police incompetence!
At the end of your video you say that the guy who got off with hard labour didn't appeal because a retrial, after money was found in his house, could have resulted in the death penalty if he'd been convicted. I thought that the double jeapardy law ( where you can retry a person twice for the same crime if compelling new evidence comes to light) was only changed recently after the Stephen Lawrence murder.
@@nicky29031977 as he hadn't been found not guilty the double jeopardy rule would not apply. Being convicted his sentence could be reviewed and he legal representative felt that if it went to retrial it was possible he could have been convicted of murder and hanged. Hence he decided to drop the appeal
Does Eltoft's conviction of accessory after the fact prevent him from being tried later as a joint perpetrator or the charge can be upgraded anyway but his appeal withdrawal is just to avoid further attention into the case ?
Interestingly, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's database does not show that Samuel Eltoft died in military service during WWI. Did he perhaps serve under an alias?
@@braintransplantdonor we discussed this in the comments yesterday. Eltoft could have changed his name or the repeated references in the Liverpool Echo of him later killed in action were incorrct
@@JohnDavies-cn3ro if he got conscripted he would have had no choice but to go. And by 1916 they were desperate for fighting men so a criminal record would not have mattered at all.
Are we sure about the death in action? A search of the Commonwealth War Graves website shows four of "Eltoft" for 1914-1919, none of them named Samuel or Angeles.
@@camberweller I couldn't find any confirmation either but it was reported in several articles Liverpool newspapers from the 1930s to the 90s. Maybe he changed his name?
@@thehangmansrecord2860 - Quite possibly. I'd imagine that his name was notorious, even for that pre-mass-media era. You're an experienced and skilled researcher, so you would have already considered the possibility that one reporter in the 1930s got it wrong and then it was repeated onward. But there's not much one can do about that, unfortunately. Thanks again.
@@matthewspicer1068- Interesting. I don’t have access to either, so thank you. Doesn’t the National Archives search for ww1 soldiers default out to Ancestry?
@@camberweller Ancestry and FMP are a mass of information - I find with names that are slightly unusual like this one, I just search everything they cover .... but yes if u go TNA search and the entry is in those sites (A & FMP) it tells u .... Matthew:)
Do we have any idea how much money was in the bedknob? Was it a token amount, or had they gone halfers? Would be interesting to know, though he didn’t last that much longer anyway.
I had read about this case before. The account indicated that Ball was the principal instigator and Eltoft an unwilling accessory but Steve's presentation certainly makes it appear that the younger man was far more complicit than circumstances before the trial would suggest.
@@Joodles22 His appeal could have given rise to a retrial whereas if he served the sentence imposed by the court he most likely would not be placed on trial again for the same crime.
@@dp-sr1fd as noted in another comment I could find no record of him being killed and relied on accounts from the local papers in later years saying he was killed at the front. Perhaps he did change his name?
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Quite possible, may he rest in peace and anonymity. As for the money found in the bedstead we will never know I suppose, but he may have been given it in an effort to keep him quiet. He may have been too scared to spend it or keep it on his person.
Eltoft suffered the punishments of penal servitude. God knows what they do to a young man like that. I bet he wished he had been hanged. And then sent out to serve in the war in the trenches. His accomplice had the easy way out. I’ll bet the two were more complicit than they let on and that Ball took the blame to protect his young friend. Desperate times in those years. The promise of money by stealing must have been very tempting. No doubt the victim discovered the crime and told them she couldn’t keep quiet so they murdered her. Or perhaps the motive was sexual and they were complicit in their depravity and tried to make robbery the significant factor. We shall never know. Their confessions have gone the way of the wind buried in unmarked graves with no one to mourn them
Thanks Steve. Harrowing but beautifully put together. Well done.
A grim tale, but justice was done. Please keep unearthing these forgotten crimes.
Liverpool is a very different place today - cleaner, as your photos show, but with probably a worse criminal undercurrent.
Fine episode.
Port cities have always had an undercurrent?
St.Helens is cleaner but there is only 1 growth industry here.Going rougher if that's possible!
I love these videos. Subject matter is interesting, as are the photos that accompany it. Narrator has clear diction, pronunciation is spot on. 1 complaint. I wish they were 2-3 hours long! xx Thank you Steve xx
@@Glamrockqueen the last one was 35 mins and someone complained it was too long :)
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Seriously?! Miserable so n so's! Do you do a podcast?
@@Glamrockqueen yes I've got some up on Spotify but will be sorting and updating when time allows
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Bostin' I look forward to listening to them xx
@@Glamrockqueen Bostin :)
I can hardly believe that Eltoft appealled his four years sentence he was lucky he wasn't hanged alongside his pal. Another great case thanks Steve.
Hi steve. Just sat down with a beer to enjoy this . Always love your episodes mate.
Once again Steve, your research and excellent commatery on the past horrible crime s, puts the human touch interest so vivid
I really like the fact that with a few exceptions I’ve never heard of these murders or the perpetrators. Another grim and brutal story beautifully presented . Thank you Steve …
Excellent series, more suited to Netflix than YT. Thanks for another gem Steve
Another interesting episode. As usual well researched and informative.
Thanks Steve 👍
Another good episode . Thank-you
Another great episode....definitely guilty as charged. Keep up the good work. X
Well presented, thank you Steve.
ANOTHER WONDERFUL EPISODE
For sure
Amazing yet again Steve with a good follow-up story... keep em coming bro and Thank you for all of your research and effort... Blessed Be !
Enjoying with my morning coffee 🌞
Yet another great case Steve, well done on these awful murders but it seems justice was served.
Those were the days when judges had the title "justice" and deserved it, now they still have the title but unable to carry out what they stand for. RIP to the dear victim.
Thanks for another great upload. I believe Eltof attoned for his sins in his service. I doubt he was involved in the actual murder. Look forward to the next one Steve.
brilliant well done Steve
Saw you on and all documentary about capital punishment. Fascinating
Thank you Steve, superb as always!
Well done as usual.
Thanks Steve for another excellent video of the justified sentence of George Ball . His partner in crime Mr E. May have escaped the hangman , the terror of fighting on the front in WWI probably made him wish for a calm death instead of what the typical WWI soldier faced.
Have a great day!
Equally guilty id say Steve. In effect they did away with the lad by realising him early to go to the trenches. A sad sorry tale indeed.
Yet another good one Steve
New subscriber here! Interesting and well told!
@@sandic3892 welcome and thank you
Great presentation as always beautifully related. Ball was correctly found guilty which his confession to the Bishop of Liverpool confirms. I looked at the Commonwealth War Graves website where details of where all WW1 fallen are buried or commemorated on a memorial are recorded. . There is no record of Samuel Angeles Eltoft. Did he enlist and die under another name perhaps not wishing upon enlisting to reveal his real name and infamous past?
I found what I think is a pension record for him, he survived the war.
@@nicolad8822 Well researched. As I said, had he died it would have been recorded on the CWWG website. Maybe he got it put it about "unofficially" that he had died so he could live his life postwar without being remembered for his part on the murder. Perhaps he lived on with a changed name? We shall never know!
Never in his wildest dreams, when in the condemned cell, did Ball think that people will be discussing this 110 years later.
Thanks
Thank you
was only thinking during the video..."That`s one heck of a way to avoid WW1!!"....then u revealed the lad was sent to the trenches and killed in action.I think it was a tall order for them to expect the body to have been washed out to sea,....from a canal...so many things that would stop its progress....another fascinating episode Steve...Thank you
Sorry I missed this live.
Excellent
either way he was dead. I suppose an "honorable death" in war was less awkward for his folks
Yes the ignominy of having a son who had been hanged for murder must have been a heavy burden for parents and surviving family members.
At least he sought to atone for his crime. What a waste of lives, all for little or nothing.
Great one Steve. Wish I could stand you a cold Aussie Beer! Cheers. Mike
Another excellent account, Steve, many thanks. If Eltoft had actually played a greater part in the murder, why didn’t Ball say so? After all, Eltoft had had no hesitation in implicating Ball. The money found in Eltoft’s bedroom could have been saved or given to him.
On the other hand, why didn’t Eltoft immediately go to the police after the murder, rather than helping Ball dispose of the body? Perhaps he did get off lightly.
Good evening all !!!
Imagine Ball being stupid enough to go to a football match a few days after the murder! Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box. Disguise or not, he almost certainly would have been recognised by someone, which indeed he was! Eltoft, hard to know how much he was involved, but his defence must have made a strong case because there was little mercy back then!!
Great episode Steve. Poor lady murdered in such a brutal way by employees to whom she had given a secure living. Eltoft should certainly have been glad to have had his life spared and just accepted his sentence. Was it ever established that the money concealed in his room was the proceeds of the robbery or his own personal savings from his wages?
@@jameshogan6142 almost certainly from the crime
Was not able to be present for the live show. Just now listened. Concluded that Ball was certainly guilty. Think the sentence for Elliot was correct. Not persuaded he was KIA in WWI. Do consider justice was done.
Was the money forced on Eltoft by Ball ? Taken in the confusion of the moment and then, fearful of how it would implicate him, undecided of what to do with it, simply hidden ? Still very young, scared and wanting decisions taken out of his hands he may well have been coerced by his mother and others into appealing the sentence.. we'll never know.
Interesting article seen on the newspaper clip at 13:00.. an early announcement of what became Shackleton's famous attempt at a Trans-Antarctic expedition, still then labelled the 'Stackhouse expedition'.
It was a heinous crime as most murders are. Sounds like the jury did a good job as well as the Judge. I feel that a green Eltoft was maybe a bit scared of Ball, & didn't want to suffer the same fate. I would have been shocked if he was sent to be hanged. His sentence was just enough to let him know that not coming forward, he could have shared Ball's sentence.
So the younger guy had a bigger part in the crime ,then was let on ,,that's just wrong,,,I guess karma caught up with him in France
good story..partner in Crime..the most infamous pair Browne and kennedy...
@@davidstewart4825 coming soon
I have just checked with the Commonwealth War Graves website and there is no record of S.A Eltoft - there are 4 Eltoft's but all were killed later - 1917 & 1919
It looks like Elltoft did survive the war. There is a pension record which fits. Quite difficult to read, but Kings Liverpool Regiment, father’s name the same, date of enlistment coincides with his prison release in Feb 1917, described as an apprentice carpenter, his Dad’s occupation. He had been in France as a Platoon Gunner and was suffering with “disorderly action of the heart”, some discussion on what that means but seems a mostly psychological condition caused by stress and fatigue rather than an obvious problem with the heart, though he reports he was gassed too. Can’t find him post war for now though his mother’s burial record says Elltoft otherwise Johnson, her maiden name, so maybe he used that. The Angeles as his middle name comes from his father working in Los Angeles in the 1880s, he was even naturalised, but obviously returned.
Once again your extra bit of research is most appreciated. Thanks :) I only had the Liverpool Echo as my source that he was KIA and as they repeated it through the decades I assumed it must have been correct....
@@thehangmansrecord2860Not saying I’m for sure correct, but it is quite an unusual name and no sign of him on the War Graves website.
@@nicolad8822 .... plus I could find no record of him on Ancestry or FMP after the murder .... Matthew:)
My first thought was that the 'accomplice was spared the Western Front with his four year sentence only for Steve to say a few moments later that he was released early to fight and indeed died in, presumably, France.
Got me shandy and me Jeffrey, I'm ready 👍🏼
Always enjoy your videos and content Steve. Might purchase your books next
@@richardsnow7299 you won't be disappointed :)
@thehangmansrecord2860 I know Steve they are probably as good as the videos. How long did it take you to write them?
Even if Eltoft was as guilty as Ball, I don't mind how things worked out. If Eltoft hadn't been in France when the artillery round blew him to pieces, then some other young English man would have been standing in the same spot. Thus the judge's mercy saved someone else from becoming just another casualty in bloody and stupid war.
I think, in all fairness, justice was done. The killer may well have given the young man
some cash. (We will never know). But that was not proven in court, nor was any
mention made via Police interview of the cash stolen. ie "How much did you steal?"
"What did you do with the money?"
Pretty basic questions the Police should have asked. I would say the young man
escaped the noose by way of Police incompetence!
At the end of your video you say that the guy who got off with hard labour didn't appeal because a retrial, after money was found in his house, could have resulted in the death penalty if he'd been convicted. I thought that the double jeapardy law ( where you can retry a person twice for the same crime if compelling new evidence comes to light) was only changed recently after the Stephen Lawrence murder.
@@nicky29031977 as he hadn't been found not guilty the double jeopardy rule would not apply. Being convicted his sentence could be reviewed and he legal representative felt that if it went to retrial it was possible he could have been convicted of murder and hanged. Hence he decided to drop the appeal
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Thanks for the clarification.
Does Eltoft's conviction of accessory after the fact prevent him from being tried later as a joint perpetrator or the charge can be upgraded anyway but his appeal withdrawal is just to avoid further attention into the case ?
@@nd-mind he could have had his sentence increased and even hanged if they believed he had taken the money during the murder
Interestingly, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's database does not show that Samuel Eltoft died in military service during WWI. Did he perhaps serve under an alias?
@@braintransplantdonor we discussed this in the comments yesterday. Eltoft could have changed his name or the repeated references in the Liverpool Echo of him later killed in action were incorrct
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Just out of curiosity here - would the army have accepted him had they known of his conviction?
@@JohnDavies-cn3ro if he got conscripted he would have had no choice but to go. And by 1916 they were desperate for fighting men so a criminal record would not have mattered at all.
Are we sure about the death in action? A search of the Commonwealth War Graves website shows four of "Eltoft" for 1914-1919, none of them named Samuel or Angeles.
@@camberweller I couldn't find any confirmation either but it was reported in several articles Liverpool newspapers from the 1930s to the 90s. Maybe he changed his name?
@@thehangmansrecord2860 - Quite possibly. I'd imagine that his name was notorious, even for that pre-mass-media era. You're an experienced and skilled researcher, so you would have already considered the possibility that one reporter in the 1930s got it wrong and then it was repeated onward. But there's not much one can do about that, unfortunately. Thanks again.
@@camberweller .... in fact Samuel Angelas (or es at end doesn't) come up on FMP or Ancestry at all, except in newspaper reports .... Matthew:)
@@matthewspicer1068- Interesting. I don’t have access to either, so thank you. Doesn’t the National Archives search for ww1 soldiers default out to Ancestry?
@@camberweller Ancestry and FMP are a mass of information - I find with names that are slightly unusual like this one, I just search everything they cover .... but yes if u go TNA search and the entry is in those sites (A & FMP) it tells u .... Matthew:)
Justice ultimately was served on Eltoft at the hands of a German soldier. He knew what he was doing.
Do we have any idea how much money was in the bedknob? Was it a token amount, or had they gone halfers? Would be interesting to know, though he didn’t last that much longer anyway.
it was enough to suggest it was the profit of crime and not his own savings
I had read about this case before. The account indicated that Ball was the principal instigator and Eltoft an unwilling accessory but Steve's presentation certainly makes it appear that the younger man was far more complicit than circumstances before the trial would suggest.
@@jameshogan6142 absolutely. I wonder if he would have been retried in later decades? Or if they’d just let it go now too?
@@Joodles22 His appeal could have given rise to a retrial whereas if he served the sentence imposed by the court he most likely would not be placed on trial again for the same crime.
Any idea when and where he was killed. I suppose he must be on a memorial somewhere.
@@dp-sr1fd as noted in another comment I could find no record of him being killed and relied on accounts from the local papers in later years saying he was killed at the front. Perhaps he did change his name?
@@thehangmansrecord2860 Quite possible, may he rest in peace and anonymity. As for the money found in the bedstead we will never know I suppose, but he may have been given it in an effort to keep him quiet. He may have been too scared to spend it or keep it on his person.
Eltoft suffered the punishments of penal servitude. God knows what they do to a young man like that. I bet he wished he had been hanged. And then sent out to serve in the war in the trenches. His accomplice had the easy way out. I’ll bet the two were more complicit than they let on and that Ball took the blame to protect his young friend. Desperate times in those years. The promise of money by stealing must have been very tempting. No doubt the victim discovered the crime and told them she couldn’t keep quiet so they murdered her. Or perhaps the motive was sexual and they were complicit in their depravity and tried to make robbery the significant factor. We shall never know. Their confessions have gone the way of the wind buried in unmarked graves with no one to mourn them
right verdict but eltoft got a result
Just a sad story of how things can go wrong in the blink of an eye. All that as the world moved towards war 😒
He got hung, for Everton playing Chelsea 🤔
Have you done anything on spies hanged during the World Wars ?
@@fraseredk7433 I have researched them all for my various books, the video is in production for later in the series
@@thehangmansrecord2860 tks Steve
:)