Windows on ARM is Ready For More Powerful Hardware
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2024
- TEAM SGG PATREON / somegadgetguy I've been using a Windows on ARM tablet for months now, and the software is in GREAT shape. We really just need more powerful processors. Who do you think will be first to ship a new ARM laptop running Windows?
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#microsoft #windowsonarm #qualcomm 
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Just here to support Wondows on ARM 🎉🎉🎉
Are you saying you don't care about Juan Bagels?
Wondows is a great os
Yea Windows is great
@@richi2870 typo, i was meant to say wondows
somebody make a Linux based Wondows OS
Finally someone that supports the Windows on ARM, you've gained a new sub bud and I'll try to be a regular viewer!
I’ve put off replacing my laptop waiting for ARM on Windows to get good.
I’m so glad Apple went all in and showed how it could be done.
I also believe it HAD to be done. This needs to succeed!
I've been holding out too. Current windows laptops seem like GREAT "portable desktops", but not the best mobile computers.
@@SomeGadgetGuy I need something that I can create music on that isn’t a gaming rig. Don’t need the extra cost of a higher end GPU (and not to mention the damn thing sounding like a jet engine).
@@RyRyTheBassGuyrest of the world do so you lose
@@RyRyTheBassGuy get a mac then
@@SahilP2648 And that's the problem. They're those of us that require windows for work but need a build and chip like the Apple silicon machines so a mac is just out of the question. When Apple supports windows natively and reduces upgrade costs on ram and storage then I will buy a mac.
I think this is right up Lenovo's Alley I think they're the only company that's willing to experiment throw that dart and see where it lands so they'll be the first one that produces a device with these processors
I think that's the smart money now. I have a bet with TK that Microsoft would get there first, but now I'm not so sure...
I was just about to say Lenovo too, they even already have a pretty good ARM laptop (Thinkpad X13s) so theoretically they could just refresh that one with newer specs
THAT'S why I thought it might be Microsoft, piggybacking on the SQ3, but now I'm pretty sure I'm wrong LOL.
@@SomeGadgetGuyPanos Panay would've pitched the hell out of a Snapdragon X Elite Surface laptop to consumers.
Microsoft didn't know what to do with him.
this was my thinking as soon as you asked
Windows on ARM suffers from the same issue Microsoft Edge does. It has become a solid offering with a lot to offer, only a lot of people formed an opinion early which continues to colour their perception of the product.
Early versions of Windows on ARM was quite limited, especially before the x86 emulation was introduced. The situation has changed, and folks will need to re-evaluate. Here's hoping that exciting new hardware will entice people to give it another go.
It'll come down a LOT to marketing for sure.
Totally agree with this video, waiting for Mediatek to hop on the Windows on ARM train ASAP so that we get the performance per dollar ratio we all want
I mean, if they just put active cooling on a Dimensity 9300... That would be pretty sweet...
@@SomeGadgetGuyWe can only hope... I guess. Mediatek Kompanio chipsets are the equivalent for Chromebooks and they're being featured on some Chromebook Plus models I believe
Yup. Chrome and Android tablets too. They decent, but I don't think they've really passed by the performance of the SD865.
so as useful as booting the renegade project on a Xiaomi Pad 5 huh? Well time will tell @@SomeGadgetGuy
i’d love framework laptop with arm option
HECK YES! That would be the best company to tackle an upgradeable ARM notebook.
Well, they can just create a custom board that goes along with an rpi 5 which pins to the gpio pins. Not the best for performance but as a proof of concept till a better option comes up
You hit the nail on the head with the pricing issue. I personally think HP will release a 13" Spectre x360 to kick start the Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite wave. However, I highly doubt that they'll have affordable SKUs for sale.
OH! A first vote for HP. They absolutely could deliver in this space. The corporate side would love a fleet option too.
A Qualcomm powered 13" Spectre x360 with a 16:10 QHD OLED would be my dream laptop. If they could have a magnetically attached pen like the 2024 Intel 14" it would be the cherry on top.
Prices are always disappointing
New sub. Definitely here to support windows on arm advancement. I'm about to purchase a laptop with a core ultra processor, but may consider windows on arm in a few years following that.
Yes! I've been arm-curious for a while and I want desktop arm to pickup adoption, laptops are an area that makes so much sense, not all productivity tasks need monster processing or complex instruction sets.
The next Surface Pro is rumored to be running on ARM with X Elite. That's all I was waiting for.
I have the feeling that next Windows iterations will also be heavily focused on that and it would be great
The tablet/2 in 1 form factor is made for this
Want that real bad. Just the 9 Pro again but with a more powerful chip.
Great! when do Macs get bootcamp for windows on arm?
I don’t care too much about legacy apps, I just care about my games working on an arm processor.
I have a Surface Pro X (ARM) and the battery is amazing compared to the other Surfaces and it never gets hot!I think the Surface Go will get an ARM version, as a 4+ in spring or 5 later this year. It will increase the battery life (which is bad) and facilitate the iPad-alternative.
If Qualcomm can REALLY deliver what they promise in a system running at 30W, a Surface Go should CRUSH with that new chip.
That would be incredible 😊
I’d love to see that tablet come sooner rather than later
@gabriels.carrionvivar5060 Surface Go 4 was thought to be on ARM but MS has postponed or discontinued the more innovative Surface devices and the director of Surface division has left.
I have the same model, but I've been having a lot of inexplicable issues- there was a lot of frame drops, settings app kept crashing, and the first time i tried to factory-reset the thing it hanged! Battery life is still good tho.
After managing to factory reset only a handful of frame drops remain. I noticed it correlates to when edge appears in windows task manager. Do you know if there is a way to fix this?
Writing this from a Lumia 950 XL running Windows 11. I love Windows on ARM so much.
Quite happy so see that you will make some videos about arm laptops!
Personally, I don't feel that they have enough power to go through 3D cad and other engineer applications with the same speed as some x86 machines do
This is the first time I've been excited about PC hardware in awhile. This should be very interesting.
My guess would be Lenovo as they have a couple of Chrome OS tablets and a clamshell laptop with ARM. I also heard Google is working on an ARM version of Chrome (browser) for Windows so they must know more ARM is coming.
That was a HUGE shot in the arm for ARM. Proper Chrome support is going to be a nice perk.
I've been using a Surface Pro X for about two years. It supports x32 and x64 applications at a pretty good speed. So, there are very few Applications that don't run on Windows ARM. The issues are almost always USB hardware drivers. For example, I have a Spyder monitor calibrator. The software runs, but it won't communicate with the device and I can't find any device drivers for it.
Thank god SOMEONE is willing to stand up for windows on arm and willing to point out how most people don't care about the "backwards compatibility first!" community
does WSA work better with an ARM processor?
I was testing Windows on a Mac mini and VMware. Both operating systems communicate well with each other. 👍
What device you are using and where can I buy one?
I can't wait! I don't know why but I've always had a soft spot (or maybe a hard spot 👀) for Windows on ARM. I hope they can start taking on the M3 or at least the M2 and keep the prices reasonable.
Happy SP9 ARM user here, don't think I'll never going back. It's perfectly usable for me and battery life it's awesome
It's hilarious how many arm chair "reviewers" will just write it off.
"Not powerful enough bro. Just the way it is. Facts."
While completely missing the point of what it was built to do well.
Looking forward to have my portable gaming out pace steam deck on Windows ARM. 🤔
Definitely a believer after running running windows apps on my M1 Pro. Excited to see other high class ARM pcs hit the market.
I have been looking for a small light windows tablet for a long time. Huawei matebook e go. Seems perfect, I'm just worried about adobe apps. Would they work just like in any basic Intel Windows? I don't want high rendering but if they don't work it's a deal breaker 😔
This is dope!
Gotta ask, can you run Wii-u and RPCS3 on it? If we could get windows on the Odin 2 with it's SD8G2, that would be fantastic!
Also runs great as a virtual machine on ARM MAC machines (with Parallels).
Please make more Windows on Arm content. Specifically show casing the good. This is very interesting
Planning on it 👍
My biggest question, will samsung first release a Galaxy Book variant with the X Elite, or a Tab S10 Ultra with the X Elite
I’m trying to find out if affinity designer runs on snapdragon. I’m not looking for blazing speeds. Just able to use.
Been running Windows on Arm on my MacBook Pro for 2 years now, and for everything but games, it is very fast and responding. I think the only things we now need are a few ARM manufacturers and PC motherboards to support them and th86/x64 might have a run for its money.
Do you run it on the M1 chip?
@@ant4686 yes, base M1 on a Macbook Pro through Parallel Desktop.
I totally agree, this is going to be a good year for Windows on Arm PCs with Qualcomm's new Snapdragon X Elite processor set to launch later this year, and possibly new Windows Arm processors from NVidia, MediaTek and AMD from 2025 onwards when Microsoft / Qualcomm's Windows arm exclusivity agreement ends. I have been using a Windows Dev Kit 2023 with Qualcomm's Snapdragon 8cx gen 3 (basically a Surface Pro 9 5G in a box but with 32GB of RAM) as my daily driver for over a year. As you say, Windows 11 for arm, the number of Windows apps compiled for arm and x64 emulation has significantly improved over the past 12 months. WSL2 and Windows Subsystem for Android all work well (you can even get a 3rd party arm version which includes the Google Play Store). I've run Ableton 11 Intro Windows x64 app on my arm Dev Kit without any major issues. You can get Windows arm versions of emulators, such as Dolphin (Game Cube and Wii), aethersx2 (PS2), PPSSPP and DosBox-x. The only limitation I have found has been with some hardware drivers where there is not arm64 version and the x64 version is incompatible, such as Creative's SoundBlaster USB sound cards, which default to running as a USB to audio adaptor with limited functionality as Windows arm loads Microsoft's USB audio driver in place of Creative's hardware specific driver. The Robo & Kala Windows arm64 2 in 1 laptop is excellent value (same processor as my Dev Kit). I wanted to purchase one last year, but unfortunately, they don't currently ship outside USA.
How are 3rd party plugins running and what type of track count are you getting?
Whats the name of the 3rd party Android subsystem?
@@crussell4691 I didn't have any third-party plug-ins but would be surprised if they worked. It was a quick experiment, but it handled the demo song without issue, and that had a good mix of tracks within the Ableton Live 11 Intro constraints. Ableton Live 11 Intro is limited to 16 audio and 16 midi tracks, compared with standard and suite that are specified as "unlimited".
While on team Motorola ReadyFor, I still root for Windows on ARM. This will make those laptops last longer on their battery for sure.🤟🏽
Heck yeah. I still feel MOST folks out there would be FINE moving to a phone as their only main computer.
Can 64 bit games run at all? Or its still similar to the 845 in the ODiN that was bound to run arm stuff or ancient 32 bit games
3:57 That contrast demo between the two processor shows the Core i5 is lagging behind Arm processor significantly. 3:57 The gap between the two is surprising to me.
i own a surface duo and there is a entire github project to port windows 11 arm to the device, but there are MANY apps which does not work sadly... i use google drive to sync a lot of things between my windows devices and it does not work on arm and thats just one example
but it would be awesome to have arm processors in 2 in 1 devices to have windows or android with the switch of a button or dualboot when booting this KINDA like the new 2 in 1 from lenovo where the tablet is android and the dock windows
I am so excited for a tablet with triple boot loader windows on arm, Linux and android, infinite possibilities, specifically with the frore airjet.
Runs great on my Mac via Parallels.
the issue is they only support 11 and 11 requires patches that aren't available on ARM to be usable
I have my hopes up for Qualcolm Elite. It looked decent in the demos. The interesting thing will be price + overall battery runtime. If you can get a 1000-ish$ price tag that's similar to a MBA/P, it's very interesting, especially if RAM remains upgradeable.
No way it can reach the MBP performance at $1000....
Very excited to see what the Snapdragon X Elite brings us this year. I've long dreamed of a performant device for Windows on ARM and hopeful that 2024 is the year we see it.
Unfortunately, I think there needs to be more competition for ARM Windows compatible SoC's before we are going to see better pricing. Qualcomm hasn't seemed too interested in seriously competeing on price.
As an aside, I may be in the minority who feels that my windows laptop battery life and performance is already very good, so I have never been super excited for Windows on ARM. That's not to say anything bad about other people wanting them. More competition is always a good thing.
I hope it will be less painful than going from 9x to XP. As a kid I hated that half of my favorite games stopped working under XP.
I hope that legacy apps will get proper hardware support one day like MMD and all of its plugins
Agree the current price to performance is the main issue.
So video cards will not be needed anymore if they switch with arm as it's already integrated?
Just in entry and mid level gaming configs. A 4070 mobile will still beat that SoCs, so the high-end tier would continue being as today.
Thats good transition arm is the future for laptops .. thanks apple for for making arm processors so amazing that windows acknowledged using it now for windows laptops
"Windows on ARM" sounds alarmingly more like "Devices you don't _own"_ with MS's curiosity into a possible subscription model of Windows. We really need more Linux ARM devices. The licensing for Windows alone on ARM hardware is what makes that price-to-performance so much higher to begin with. Windows on ARM is arguably going to turn into a oversaturated market of under-performing hardware that consumers will pay higher dollar for, solely because it has Windows on it which justifies them charging more for the product. This, in turn, now opens consumer-acceptance for when normal hardware running Windows on x86_64 get a price hike, as the expensive ARM devices running Windows become the new low-end entry. Cue the market manipulation and the excuse to blame inflation.
You won't get better ARM hardware for that unless these start to succeed in the market.
And for costs, you won't find costs drop until there's better competition. The R&K is selling for $700 right now.
I want an improved version of the ASUS Zenbook Duo 2024 for Windows on ARM using the Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite. The improvement I want is for the screen to be also detachable like the keyboard. It would be great if you could do away with one of the screens, or even attach them side by side instead of one on top of the other.
I want X Elite in a NUC form factor. That looks like a no-brainer.
As a software developer, I'm looking forward on Windows ARM and potentially porting application to it.
The only unfortunate part is those devices (even the non-high-end variant) is simply too expensive on place where I live. And this is an issue because making new OS-Arch combination means the company have to dedicate time to support on porting existing application. Because no application compatibility, no demand. This ultimately is another chicken-egg problem.
Can some one tell me what that game is at 1:52 !?? The one that told you to drag n drop to build to the pipe.. I played that game when I was young, now i want to play it againbut forgot the name.
World of Goo. Now also on Netflix.
Absolutely! I have an older ARM Samsung laptop with terrible stats, only 4GB of RAM, yet with the ARM Windows 11 it's perfectly usable for just the basics. I'm surprised how snappy it is, ridiculously energy-efficient, Instant on/off always in standby like my phone. With GOOD spec'd hardware it's obvious to me that ARM Windows will be fantastic. I'm all about this 1000%!
I'll never understand why they gimped that laptop. They could've chucked a flagship phone SoC into a laptop chassis with 8-16GB and it would've been much more successful.
@@hermanwooster8944imagine snapdragon 888+ with active cooling. Its will became beast as the issue with 888+ only heat because passive cooling of phone
Is there Android upgrade for this tablet?
I have an M1 macbook air. The combination of a performant, fanless, laptop with incredible battery life is too good! Hope Windows users get to experience that with the new Qualcomm chips.
I see that G1 Soundwave on the shelf…based! He’s my fave as well.
Can you install third-party device drivers yet? I work in music and use audio interfaces and such, primarily I’m on windows and considering switching to Mac for all the CPU benefits, especially in the laptop Space. I’ve been holding out hope for better windows, laptops, and have been disappointed. Hoping that arm can solve the issues. About six months back I tried running a Windows VM on an M1 Mac and it ran surprisingly well however, a lot of software didn’t install like protools, ableton etc and none of drivers for my audio interface worked. So I’m hoping the platform becomes viable for musicians as well
THIS IS REALLY VERY,VERY MUCH INDEED COOL ASS DEMONSTRATION AS WELL AS THE VIDEO FOLKS.
I've been trying to how people. We've been in pretty good shape already.
It’s basically return to the original objective of Windows NT running on multiple architectures. Some Windows NT veterans will remembers Alpha,MIPS, and PowerPC
show me the hardwares and native apps
WSL and WSA are full fledged level 1 hypervisor VMs, with hyper-v gpu passthrough. You are literally running full linux alongside.
Yes. That's why I'm excited by these tablet PCs.
Framework?
That would be interesting
OH. Yeah. I would like that. Yes.
Even if it seems useless, never complain about options being added.
Does it have the Play Store? I ask halfway through.
I.Can't.wait. Microsoft is rumored to launch a ARM only refreshed line.
Yes surface Pro 9 arm literally costs an arm and leg with 16GB Ram being max amount. There is minisforum v3 due this year.
It's crazy that the R&K is currently $800 less than the SALE price of the Surface SQ3.
@@SomeGadgetGuy hard to get it shipped to India with shipping tax and repair will be expensive. The only reason I'm holding on to my older alienware and Lenovo is due to upgradeable parts such as SSD, screen and Ram
PREACH.....
I have been running windows on ARM inside VMs on my M1Max MBP now for some time. As a developer, having it ALL is wonderful. Patiently waiting for the likes of the old Snapdragon ARM based processor exclusivity to die in that Firey train wreck of their own making, and have a new Apple Like ARM for windows machine from someone, anyone, to come to market... Apple has a lot of self proclaimed, messiah complex faults, but they have shown the rest of the industry the way towards the light with their Apple Silicon... Love it....
Everything is true. I love windows on ARM. Still sticking to 2018 released Samsung galaxy book2 running on snapdragon 850. It’s a good tablet pc for RUclips, s-pen drawings and some excel work. Still great on battery, at least 2 days on continuos usage. And 1-2 weeks of standby or in sleep mode. I will definitely buy an x elite windows pc only if it’s made by Samsung with its exceptional displays.
Can it run x86 softwares? Other then ms office pograms.
You make a very valid point . Vast majority of consumers and even professionals should have all the apps they need. If the hardware gets to m1/m2 level performance and that stellar battery endurance. Thatd be lovely
We get that performance at a good power draw, and I think a GOOD chunk of folks will be interested in dropping X86 even before we get more developers interested in native ARM apps.
@@SomeGadgetGuy cheers to a new future for windows 🫡
I am using a Hyrican ewo tab 2 as a webdeveloper and its performance/prize/battery life is abolutly great. No comparision. Honestly i dont need more power or ram or disc space for the prize of a couple of hundred bucks more.
i wish phones just came with their own docking station and versions of apps that run like they would on a browser. i mean the hardware is there, all you need is a monitor and a keyboard and you have a basic computer.
This is the device I would buy for my wife , as she like to watch the show + she can work with MS office + WIndows 11 environment
What is req
For ARM based windows ...
Do you know if Windows on ARM will offload legacy support, or will the OS still remain polluted by things like a 30-year-old control panel interface hidden beneath years worth of bandaids?
Oh it's still windows. Improvements have been slow, but we are seeing changes to things like settings and interfaces.
I want to switch to MacOS full time. I have a Mac Pro laptop for programming and then I have my i9 13900k, 3080 gaming system. I'd love to be able to install Windows for ARM on my Macbook Pro. Apple said they are open to it and the ball is in Microsoft's court. I don't know if the exclusivity deal is over for Windows Arm yet, but I'm hoping it ends soon.
What, battery life up to 20 hours?! I really wanted this as my tablet. Unfortunately with 12.6" it is huge (who can use such a big device as tablet? After holding it in the hands for 10 minutes to watch video, you would start feeling the strain on your hands). In that sense it's more a Surface alternative than a tablet with keyboard cover.
Windows on ARM is great for lightweight laptops for office productivity but without Android apps, Chrome OS or Android tablets maybe are better options.
I want one with an unlocked bootloader and 2 NVME slots so it's possible to dual boot ChromeOS and Windows
What is ARM laptop?
Framework. I want them to do a motherboard swap with the SD x elite SoC.
Tbh what I'd want is to install Windows as a secondary OS on my Samsung Galaxy Tab S9+. It's a great tablet, almost has laptop features with the keyboard case, but it sucks that I can't program on it because there is no proper software support on Android.
I 🥰 my Robo & Kala 2-in-1. It's perfect for casual computing, and it serves double duty for my professional .NET developer work whenever I travel.
Snapdragon X Elite is going to take it to the next level, but I don't think Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 performance is bad at all. My Ryzen 9 6900HS laptop can provide marginally better performance if I don't mind extreme fan noise, power usage, and throttling, but my Robo & Kala can provide 1512 Single-Core and 6349 Multi-Core on Geekbench 6 consistently with good battery life and no fan noise.
if they get down the price per performance, arm would be amazing for developing countries
We see INCREDIBLE competition for low cost chromebooks using ARM chips. Even our mid-ranger phone chips are overkill powerful now for most people's daily compute needs.
Older Arm SOCS do have decent price to proforomance though---I was able to get an 8cx gen 2, which is about half as powerful as the newer gen 3, for about 200 bucks. It does pretty well actually, it get around a 3400 on Geekbench (MT), enough for causal browsing and media consumption. BTW, the device was a Samsung GalaxyBook go 5g.
it be great cuz it might make good handhelds with good battery life
Oh exciting times
Windows on Arm runs really, really well on Apple Silicon Macs.
I have a thinkpad x13s and love it it even runs overwatch 2 at a playable speed at low settings of course. It does get hot and the battery has to be I think at least at 5% to even power on with the charger connected. Really my only complaints
I REALLY wanted to play with one. Hoping Lenovo comes out swinging this summer.
I am also very much looking forward to what is coming this year. I had waited for this from earlier than the first Surface Pro X and finally it seems that it is going to happen. A focus on this topic would be fantastic for the future. I expect Apple Silicon parity from the new Qualcomm chips and I hope when the market also opens to NVIDIA, AMD, MediaTek we will really have fantastic competition bringing even better hardware for Windows on ARM.
I am very excited for the windows on arm. I can’t wait for them be as powerful as the Apple processors. As someone who is forced to use a thick windows laptop for work, I would like them to at least have more battery life.
Dude! Thanks for the reviewing that laptop and giving your thoughts on WoA.
As an original Window RT, I’m glad to see how the OS and it’s hardware are evolving and it’s great to see the growth.
First time in my life I hear about Robo&Kala, I looked it up and I think that's the kind of thing I need the day I'll replace my 2020 Vivobook. I like that laptop a lot (I'll probably get a lot of use out of it for a couple years), but I feel that what my needs now are more a tablet with Windows (for Godot) and a keyboard, and a pen (to draw on Krita) when I'm not at home; and my desktop/gaming pc when I'm at home. And yeah, I wanted a surface pro for years, but the prices where so outrageous. A tablet fall just a little short of my use case. And a laptop is actually not as practical/ doesn't cover as much use cases.
If we can get a powerful Windows compatible tablet with good touch screen support, with a touch screen optimized UI and apps with good UI for touchscreens, that also work well with the stylus (and if the stylus can approach Apple Pencil levels of quality) and a textured screen, I would probably buy one. Especially if it can have all of the same benefits and run Linux. At the moment though, nothing is beating Procreate with the iPad Air and Apple Pencil 2nd gen for me.
i thought that by the time Windows on arm becomes usable x86 will be more efficient, I guess i was wrong.I hope Qualcomm gets it right this year and maybe Mediatek will join the race too.
In how a lot of our apps and services are trending, I just don't see X86 reclaiming the performance per watt crown in the near future.
I don't believe that will happen anytime soon. ARM architecture can simply drop so low in TDP compared to the lowest x86 TDP on the market, that ARM is IMHO the future for mobile computing. Here's hoping that Linux takes advantage of that future market, and goes full steam ahead in the ARM direction.
What is the point of using arm chip, if the chips are 7nm.
My biggest reason for selling my surface pro x had more to do with it simply not being able to edit video and audio fast enough. The emulation was poor and it would take over an hour or more for an export. Where the M1 MacBook Air took 5 minutes tops. All other things being considered if it wasnt for that I would have stuck with my SPX. I was going to get the 9 with 5g but saw the elite came out - so im waiting for that to see what happens. IF however the iPad actually gets an OS update that makes it more useable I would happily stay there since my ecosystem is Apple products anyway.
I look forward to being able to play my pc games on my phone natively one day.
So frustrating when gamers write off mobile, instead of supporting the devs that bring over great ports. Phone GPUs are now roughly as powerful as a GTX1060, but under 10W. You'd think gamers would be getting lit up about compute power like that.
@@SomeGadgetGuy I think a lot of folks don't know about it. As I am actively interested in windows on arm for this very reason (having my PC library with me wherever I go on my phone) however there is also cost to consider and the early stage of emulation to content with.
Can someone tell me what game is the one shown in the video?