Jesus and the Roman Empire | Gregory Aldrete and Lex Fridman
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
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The church structure began in the very beginning, just after the Day of Penecost when Christian salvation baptism first began, as a plurality of Elders and deacons in an autonomous congregation. If he's referring to the hierarchy of the Catholic church, which is not the church God through his prophets and apostles laid out, then yes that wasn't until hundreds of years later. Also the earliest converts to were not slave women, though there are examples of them in the epistles, but Jewish converts; "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile." Romans 1:16 Just wanted an honest man like yourself to have the proper information.
Quran (only scripture with 100% accuracy/preservation) says Allah is “Al-Ahad”(one/indivisible).Philosophically, It is impossible for 3 distinct perfections to exist simultaneously. Father (Perfection 1/distinct1) =Son (Perfection 2/distinct2)=idolatry.This is due to addition of two extra perfections that are Co-equal/Co-eternal&distinct with Allah(the most Exalted) and therefore “son” will always limit the “Father” , therefore rendering both limited/imperfect. Allah(perfection) is by definition infinite and cannot be limited by distinct perfection #2.(Son). Not just the Quran, but also the old/New Testament textually establish tauheed(monotheism): John 17:3. So, then why believe in trinity and associate two imaginary parts to Allah(one/indivisible/Self-Sufficient/All-Loving)? How could your love/worship be undivided/exclusive for Allah(the most Exalted) when there are two other equally unique/perfect entities to adore? The verses of bible used by trinitarians are extremely vague and require hard interpretation to extract the understanding that Father/Son/Holy Ghost are Co-equal/Co-Eternal&distinct….
@bluesky45299 just stop : your ignorance has been answered thousands of times
"We applaud the Serpent of Colonialism in breathing its last breath" Haile SelASSIE I- GOD IN FLESH
His Crucifixion bound Roman Colonialism into a dark age for a 1000 years, His Reincarnation as King end European Colonialism forever ... Praise the One who sits on King David throne
@@davidjanbaz7728 I would recommend studying chapter 112 of Quran(only 4 verses) to understand the essence of perfect/infinite entity. Remember the essence of Allah(perfection/infinity/self-sufficient/ being uncaused/indivisble) cannot be shared/experience by any creature and is exclusive to Allah(the most exalted) alone. Trinity seeks to attribute essence of Allah(one/indivisible perfection) to the Son(finite/imperfect).According to prophet muhammad(peace be upon him)The chapter 112 of Quran is considered to equate to 1/3 of Quran in its importance. 1.Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “He is Allah-One ˹and Indivisible˺; 2.Allah-the Sustainer ˹needed by all˺. 3.He has never had offspring, nor was He born. 4.And there is none comparable to Him.
The 2nd issue arises with the preservation of New Testament itself. How do I know new testment equates to gospels that were revealed to prophet jesus(peace be upon him).There is not a single manuscript(except p-52) that exists post 300 years prophet Jesus(peace be upon him). What happened in those 300 years? The manuscripts that are available are in Greek, the very language Jesus Christ did-not communicate to disciples in.
"There is no greater drama in human record than the sight of a few Christians, scorned or oppressed by a succession of emperors, bearing all trials with a fierce tenacity, multiplying quietly, building order while their enemies generated chaos, fighting the sword with the word, brutality with hope, and at last defeating the strongest state that history has known. Caesar and Christ had met in the arena, and Christ had won." -Will Durant
Beautiful
Incredible.
Praise our LORD GOD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST to the glory of GOD our FATHER. Amen.
Actually evidence that christians died in arenas is pretty vague and is probably only propaganda of Christians to make themselves martyrs.
Damn
I think he's leaving out a crucial aspect of what made Christianity so popular. Yes, it did provide for salvation and heaven - an appealing message - but what the Romans witnessed in the coliseum with regards to the torturing and killing of Christians brought great sympathy and respect for that cult. If you look at the story of Saint Euphemia she was to be eaten by a Lion but the beast wasn't feeling it that day and so the emperor ordered a gladiator to kill her. He naturally hesitated during which she grabbed his sword and committed suicide. The Romans valued courage and often saw tremendous resolve from Christians who seemed to be happy dying for their God. It was rare for a Roman to show that kind of willingness to die for, say, Jupiter or Mars.
@@paulpena5040 and then she went to hell because suicide is punished by you're soul burning for all eternity. Contradiction.
@@webavra394that’s not true. Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. We all have sinned. Her choice of suicide over a worse death is no more of a sin than anything you have done in your life. If she has accepted Jesus in her heart as lord and savior she is saved
I don't think she committed suicide. Might wanna look into this more before spewing it everywhere friend.
Furthermore, number of reported miracles witnessed by the guards during torture of martyrs is incredible...that's how it spread through the army
According to tradition, Saint Euphemia died in the arena at Chalcedon in 303 AD for refusing to offer sacrifices to Ares. She was subjected to various tortures, including the wheel, but remained steadfast in her faith. In the end, she was thrown to the beasts, including lions and a bear and died from a wound sustained from the bear. However her body wasn’t eaten by any of the animals, they refused to. She didn’t commit suicide, this is a mortal sin. But I agree that the willingness to die for Christ was massively influential, the death of St Ignatius of Antioch was incredibly impactful and the letters he wrote on the way to Rome solidified that impact for centuries.
The love of Christ is the brightest light in life.
If that makes you happy, good for you.
@@davidlynch9049look up near death experiences. They were pretty lucky to get a glimpse of the “real”
@@davidlynch9049look up near death experiences. They were pretty lucky to get a glimpse of the “real”
@davidlynch9049 it's sad that you would even feel the need to comment that. I hope you find happiness someday.
@@davidlynch9049Good for us all you mean. 😘❤️🔥
Great guest. I love historians
Christ is King
Christ is Myth
@@SgtSnausagesnobody agrees with you
King of fiction
Well, I'm the king of king of kings. I'm greater.
Amen brother!
When Christianity first arose in the world nobody called it a religion. Even the Romans called Christianity the anti-religion. For two hundred years, the Romans thought Christians were atheists. When the Christian Polycrap was being martyred, the angry Roman crowds shout out “away with the atheists!” (see the text Martyrdom of Polycarp. They made no sacrifices and had no temple dedicated to their God.
The reason why is because what Christians were saying about God was so radically different than what any religion has claimed in history. Jesus is the most anti-religious founder of any religion. Moreover, his claim to be unique son of God (which was a title reserved for Caesar-it was literally on the coins), was a direct challenge to what Rome believed in.
Hm, so the Romans recognized Christianity was horseshit. Lol. Still is.
Atheist because they refused to worship the pagan gods and offer sacrifices to them.
A direct challenge to their power
The concept of what constitutes a religion was vastly different for Romans and Jews (and later Christians and Moslems). For Christians a religion is synonymous to faith. You have to believe in something or other. For Romans faith was irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you believe in. All that matters is that you offer a tiny sacrifice every once in a while. And since the religion and the state were essentially the same, not sacrificing means questioning the authority of the state. That's the one thing the Romans couldn't tolerate.
Nowadays atheists think they themselves are atheists for 200 years
Jesus is King.
Jesus is the prophet of the Jews that’s it
@@heavyfiregaming9012Christ is King
Jesus becomes Roman God? or Roman King?
@@valentinesunday8694 according to Paul . Not God
@@heavyfiregaming9012 nothing you say holds any merit. You blaspheme and then try to quote scripture. You're a walking talking hypocrite
When he says, "What are the odds?" in response to Lex pointing out that two highly influential figures lived on earth contemporaneously (Augustus and Jesus), I'm reminded of my Astronomy class where my teacher said, "What an amazing coincidence" regarding the moon and sun both appearing nearly identical in size when viewed from the earth, despite the fact that the sun is 400 times further away. Some people just refuse to see providence.
It's true. Only the pure in heart will see God. The doubting heart will call whatever it sees "coincidence"
Wow excellent point
Einsteins been quoted, saying..Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous.
@@galaxxy09 lol
What are the odds of a particular coincidence? Small. What are the odds of coincidences occurring in general? High. Conflation of the two is the sleight of hand necessary in order to "see" providence where there is statistics.
The appeal of Christianity is that it’s true 😊
and if you were born in Pakistan, you'd say "Allah"
Well, some of the history of Christianity is true. The magic stuff, heaven and hell are entirely made up by man 🤷🏻
@@darktagmaster1861 ah right, and you would have been an atheist no matter where you were raised? I know what it’s like to mock believers. I did so most of my life. I even used lame quips like the one you used. If you want to learn the answers are there. I’ll happily provide some recommendations (beyond the Bible).
@@davidlynch9049 Maybe. I don’t think so anymore. I used to. A universe from nothing? Observable universal laws. Life from a material universe? Minds from matter? Love, justice, beauty, morality? Good and evil? Truth?!
I personally believe in objective morality more than I could ever believe in subjective preferences. That’s just me
@@darktagmaster1861 Does your atheism not derive from the western country you grew up in? I know what it is like to not believe, and fortunately now to believe. I can provide you recommendations if you would like your preconceived ideas challenged. There’s so many brilliant minds out there that make Harris / Hitchens / Dawkins look like children
Pliny was an aristocrat who witnessed the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 Anno Domini. He was friendly with one of the most brilliant Roman historians of all time, Tacitus, through his uncle, Pliny the Elder. The Younger was fiercely intelligent, and I'm willing to bet he knew a little more about Christians than he let on in his letters to Trajan... early Roman officials thought Christians were cannibals... their understanding of the Eucharist being obviously skewed... an incredibly fascinating period of Roman history... especially through the lens of Pliny's letters as an eyewitness to Vesuvius.
Fantastic interview, by the way.
His description of early Christianity is also spot on. For the most part that's likely how Christians would have met 200 years after Christ. In homes, eating together and just being together. The traditions of the church developed many years after and solidified post Roman empire. Pliny knew exactly what he was talking about. He didn't need to understand Christian doctrine to identify them as a fringe group, so what was he supposed to say that would indicate an understanding of Christians?
@@AscendedLife1 Thanks for your reply to my comment, I do appreciate it. Pliny certainly was no Nero when it came to Christians, as Pliny was not a sociopath. Those early emperors were scared of what they didn’t understand. Christ’s message fought a long battle through the Empire years and came out intact because of the conviction of those first Christians.
Pliny's letters to Tiberius? You mean to Trajan?
@ Indeed, I do… thanks for correcting me..
Christ conquered the heart of the empire that persecuted Him and His people. Beautiful.
Religion is controlling how people act , in a world of violence and anarchy, that is incredibly powerful.
Lol it was a pure political move.
@@chrisofbangkok cope
Truly poetic
Jesus conquered death the bible says and he ressurected and is still alive today. Hes just off earth rn, but he's alive like we are rn like his body because he can't die now. Hmm God can't die what do you know wonder how that works you can read the bible if you want and fond out how why etc God can't die in the sense of what most know God to be one of the qualities he's immortal. He is Jesus is alive rn like you are believe it or not he is. He is off earth in heaven which is called the secret place we don't know where that is but he is alive rn actually
Christianity wasn’t called Christianity then it was simply called by the first Christians “The Way” ☦️
Oh shit they were Mandalorians?
@@covert_ops_47 This is the way.
Yes until Antioch in Acts when they called those of the Way “Christians”. The bishop of Antioch in 110ad St. Ignatius wrote 7 letters on his way to being Martyred.
This is The Way
Makes it sound much more like a cult lol
All due respect to Gregory Aldrete, it is not correct to say this was “an act of patriotism.” Beginning with Augustus, the imperial cult in the east began to worship the emperor as a living god while he lived, and would offer sacrifices to his image after his death and apotheosis.
The Christians had accepted Christ as Lord and God and could not in good conscience render such honors to the emperor; and they were willing to die rather than doing so. If there was confusion on behalf of the state in the early days, it didn’t last long. This wasn’t a “miscommunication.” The Roman emperors were tyrants and had the power of life and death, and several chose to exercise that power in an attempt to compel obeisance. Eventually, after centuries of tyranny, the faithfulness of the martyrs and their bravery when facing the terrors of the Roman state won over millions, and even the man who would become the first Christian emperor-Constantine the Great.
My thoughts exactly. It's hard for us to fathom now in a secularized age post-Enlightenment, but literally everyone back then took worshipping and sacrificing to gods as a given. If the Emperor was the "local" deity they owed worship to, then that's what they thought they were doing. He's porting a modern mindset into people to which that way of thinking would be completely foreign.
Christianity appealed to many because it freed their minds and spirit, even if their bodies were still enslaved. It showed that under God, all have equal worth, even if not all are equal.
The Christian God asked nothing that He would not do for us, including self-sacrifice. Christ offered love and salvation as a free gift, wanting nothing in return for it to be earned. That love drove them to care for those that needed it, to love those that did not know what it was to be loved. They did all that because HE did all that first, for them, because He loved Us so.
Salvation isn’t free at all. True followers of The Way MUST do their part and fulfill their end of the bargain. It’s more like an exchange/trade ie a new covenant.
@@johnsondoeboy2772 God's grace is a free gift, "so that no man may boast". The gift of salvation is given, freely, by God. What people do with it, is up them. There is no way to earn salvation since the very notion taints the intent. The "good deeds" done during repentance and redemption are done freely out of love, not to earn or to deserve salvation since nothing one can do can earn it, no one deserves it.
budda is more free than chrisitan, why isnt it more popular?
@@jbond5834 Demographics and birth rates is a factor, of course.
Spread that Good News brother!
Christianity is at its heart a revolutionary doctrine of all being equal before god and treating others how you treat yourself. No wonder the Roman’s saw it as a threat
Sounds kind of left leaning...
The Christian bible wasn’t yet created when Constantine was emperor. Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet.
At that time Jesus was not considered God lol.
@@Stable_GeniusJesus was pretty left-wing in general, except for his teachings on morality and sin. I guess you could call that an adaptation of the Jewish Ten Commandments.
in theory... if only this was applied in practice
I appreciated the insights. It was odd that he glossed over the disgusting persecutions that early Christians faced. I don't use the word disgusting lightly. I've been learning a lot while reading Eusebius' The Early Church. Perhaps he went into more detail in the longer version though. It's also sad that people who called themselves Christ-ians turned and persecuted pagans. I'm sure thats demoralizing to anyone looking at history. It's just important not to throw the baby out with the bath water -- What Christ taught goes completely against what some people have done in the name of being a Christian. In the end, Jesus came to save us from our terrible slavery to sin -- and its eventual punishment of eternal hell. That's what its really all about. Eternal life with the One who created you and loves you so much He came down and suffered for all your wrong doing, even while you hated him.
Every propagandist says “baby killers!” You have to read from texts outside your own tradition to get a more balanced understanding.
Don’t you realize how disgusting the idea of being born as sinners is ? I’m honestly surprised by how a lot of people don’t understand what a shameful thing abrahimitic faiths are.
Any religion which failed to respect the emperor as divine was persecuted. This is mostly Jews (70 CE fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple). As he said, even the most educated Roman didn't know what a Christian was.
@@Aeternavic The word "sin" has unfortunately been corrupted over time along with the concepts that term is imbedded in, such as original sin.
I don't think anyone would argue that we are imperfect creatures inhabiting an imperfect world; translated theologically, we are sinful creatures inhabiting a sinful world. To condemn either an individual or the world for being imperfect (prone to sin, "sinful") is blatantly, well, sinful (foolish). It's unfortunate how badly so much of Christendom has missed the mark (sinned) with regard to this subject. I myself was raised in a fundamentalist household were I was told that we all deserve to go to hell because we are born sinners. It's a twisted way of thinking.
@@Aeternavicare you perfect my friend?
Christ is King! 👑
Mark 10:18:
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."
Matthew 21:11:
"The crowds answered, 'This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.'"
Luke 13:33:
"In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day-for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"
Mark 6:4:
"Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.'"
John 12:49-50:
"For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
Hebrews 3:1:
"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest."
Your own bible says otherwise 😂
Santa Claus is queen
Allah is the greatest☪️⚔️
Yes he is. Pray for these atheists in the comment section.
@@anosplayhouse1532 you pray for me. I’ll think for you
I think as a principle, a historian should not discount the spiritual reasons given by Constantine for legalizing Christianity and for later converting. To dismiss this as a part of the explanation seems more ideological than historical.
According to multiple accounts, Constantine’s mother, Helena, to whom he was very devoted, was an enthusiastic Christian. Constantine himself claimed to have seen a Christian vision of the cross before battle at Milvian Bridge, and also claimed to receive a second vision about putting the cross on his soldiers shields.
Constantine’s predecessor, Diocletian, instituted one of the most violent pogroms against Christians. So Constantine’s change in direction was quite radical, further indicating the possibility that his sudden support for the Christians and their faith was more than just cynical politics.
Since these are historical facts reported in reliable contemporary sources, they should not simply be dismissed by a historian as something only “normal” people should consider.
Very well explained. Thank you.
Love this!
As he pointed out, Constantine used the whole symbol in the sky thing before using Pagan gods. There is nothing in the historical record that shows Constantine converted for religious reasons. Your entire desire for him to do it for religious reasons is complete speculation based on what you want to believe rather than what the historical record shows. By every indication, Constantine was a political animal who was an expert in propaganda.
True, Lots of evidence that, at least the initial conversion of the Roman Empire, was a spiritual one through Constantine. His biography does show he was a conscientious man and decent ruler.
Right. Just because historic figures can lie about their motives (the same way leaders can today), doesn't mean we should assume this. The fact that Constantine provided this experience as the reason for his conversion is an important data point that one would have to disprove (which isn't really possible). You can construct an argument for why it was merely political or something, but you can't take that as the base assumption.
Jesus' conflict was not with Rome, it was with the Jews, his own people.
You’re under-reading the gospels.
@@Phreshays You're sounding a lot like a Pharisee.
@@SmokeEater509 Jesus takes a Roman word for gospel and sub-verts its usage in the Roman imperial cult, honestly, re-read the gospels and look for its political subversion (creative non-resistance) because it’s not like Jesus’ would have agreed with the PAX romana (peace through domination) model either.
@@SmokeEater509 when they say Jesus is King or the Son of God, this is a direct political challenge to Caesar.
The Romans had a big problem with Jesus.
7:45 as a historian, how could he leave out Constantine here? That played a huge impact on the growth and acceptance in the Roman Empire.
If you watch the whole podcast, he does speak of Constantine.
Ave Christus Rex ✝️🕊️
☪️💪
Jesus is alive rn
@@ahmedOsama81931 ☦Ethiopia
@@Amdatsion what ?
interesting chat. it must be mentioned that true Christianity isn't just about securing a deal for a nice afterlife. it's about realizing you are a sinner who has offended a holy God, you have no way to save yourself from sin, and only forgiveness and restoration to the Father come through Jesus Christ. the first century believers who were reconciled to Christ but brutally killed by the romans for their faith, died in the knowledge that they were forgiven and had hope for spiritual deliverance in Christ.
Mental gymnastics
Amen
Amen
In your mind, yes, but satan is your daddy.
At this early time in its history, different christian groups believed very different things. If you hopped in a time machine, you'd find a great many Christians espousing beliefs that you wouldn't accept as "true" christianity, and in some cases even consider blasphemous. I'm sure most would consider themselves true christians. There were dozens of Gospels, many of which contradicted each other.
It's only much later that the church evolved a specific structure and set a specific official canon and creed. Even that didn't prevent a permanent split among the patriarchs of the church or wars against widespread heretical factions.
The question is whether the Pharisees pledged allegiance to the Emperor deity ?
The jews under the Roman empire were given a special exemption of the ritual of offering sacrifices for the emperor, they instead said they would pray to their god (that God, capital G) for the emperor's health
They went with satan so whatever man made influence they went with it irrelevant
Roman persecution of early Christians also had a lot to do with the Jewish uprising during the first century. Thr Roman's thought that the Early Christians were another sect of Judaism, so they suppressed Early Christians along with the Jews during the rebellions. This is why Early Christians started to distance themselves from Jews.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me
"The Book of Acts" has some interesting confrontations between Paul and different Roman leaders. Modern historians claim this book should put its author, Luke (a Greek physician), ranked with the other top historians of antiquity.
Pontius Pilate found no guilt in Christ and wanted to release him but the Jews coerced him.
Only according to the Bible. There are no records of Jesus from contemporary Roman or Jewish sources.
Isn't that what they wanted? Or how would their sins be washed without crucifixion. Christians should be grateful to Jews.
@@catguy00did you watch the video?
@@catguy00 incorrect. Look up Josephus the Jewish scribe.
@@catguy00 lots of of romans wrote about him because he was a growing threat josephus, tacitus, suetonius for example
Christianity is really attractive from the perspective of a historian: "You are going to be the same as others, but you are going to be crucified and you are going to win a place in a paradise that you cannot see." On the other hand, from the same perspective Christianity was very attractive to the emperor: "hmm, I have to change the entire basis of the culture of my society, with the enormous cost and discontent that that means, so I assure my legitimacy, because surely no one else will be able to say that God chose him, I am the only intelligent being who can say that." I suspect that it is now understood why a historian usually starves to death in a non-academic medium ..
Wow man, your argument was solid until you threw the insult at the end. Not very Christian like. He’s just giving his perspective as a historian not attacking your faith.
@@gerardkiff2026
Why would the truth be an attack? Where would a historian work if not in academia? on the other hand, if your only possible workplace is academia, isolated from real life, I suspect that in the real economy you would "starve to death".
Then it is interesting how someone who does not have a real pressure, that is, to suffer the consequences in real life of the fruit of his labor, can so cheerfully throw out with such certainty such simplistic theories.
By the way that simplicity of reasoning and the certainty in his statement (let's say lack of intellectual humility), certainly constitutes an attack on the faith, since he rules out that it was the power of God that made the church grow, from a gang of ragamuffins to an organization that changed the whole world ..
Christianity by the time Constantine made it legal wasn't marginal. Many of the Roman elite were already christians. Another thing to mention is the long time of crysis Rome had experienced before its fall. Christianity probably became more appealing to the souls of common roman citizens and ruined elite in those times. Constantine making It legal was a political move. Converting himself into christiany right before his death was a personal choice.
To be fair most people in the ancient world weren’t too skeptical of supernatural things like we are today. Especially if they were a downtrodden member of society, it isn’t hard to imagine that they would be willing to die for a God that loves them and will give them eternal bliss
@@blackdynamite3288
To be fair, I suspect that the millions and millions who died in the Soviet Union and communist China believed in the here and not the hereafter and, they were willing to sacrifice themselves believing that there was no hereafter and the here was the only thing they had. Let's say that besides being a bit superstitious (albeit of a reverse polarity), they were a bit stupid, since at least the "ancients" had no evidence (we still don't) that there isn't an hereafter.
It definitely seems that it is possible to count on people's stupidity, but it seems that the "moderns" can be counted even more in that sense. In the name of science they tend to swallow anything, even extremely simplistic explanations about extremely complex human interactions ..
Also the message in the gospels about wealth not being important and being poor and suffering financially is a good thing which brings you closer to God was appealing as the majority of Roman’s were servants or low class. Even slaves and servants and women were given elevated status which was so uncommon during that time
This is the coolest classics historian ever. I want to go back to school and take his classes!
No you don't stop lying 😂
Very cool interview. I have invested a great deal of time into thinking about this topic and timeframe. I have a different perspective on parts but I thought it was important podcast!
He is wrong that Christianity was more concerned about the after life. Yes, the after life is important, but so much of Christ’s teaching said that the Kingdom of God/Kingdom was at hand and this meant that the current world is to be transformed.
There is also evidence to show that many Roman soldiers converted as well and helped the rapid spread of Christianity. Saint Sebastian being one of them.
I get why the concept of equality was threatening to Rome, but weren't the Jews already monotheistic by this time (and following the ten commandments)? Why would those two concepts have been odd or posed a new threat to the empire?
All governments have a problem when the status quo is disrupted
Because the Christian message was universal for all people and they were seeking to convert everyone. The Jews generally didn’t seek converts and kept to themselves unless they were rebelling.
There was not equal access to God in Judaism. You'd have to be a Jew, then usually only males could go into certain places and among the men only priests etc. Jesus opened the way for anyone to have direct relationship with God through living the perfect life we should have lived and dying the death we deserved for not having done that. He fulfilled the Law and freely offers forgiveness and salvation to anyone that would repent of their sins and believe in HIm. It was a universal and unconditional offer to anyone anywhere.
There were several men who aspired to be the messiah. John the Baptist was offed because his message was threatening to the status quo. Jesus effectively picked up where he left off. Some scholars theorize that Jesus was so convinced of his own divinity ( remember his own family questioned his sanity), he really thought he could go to Jerusalem on Passover and God would help him to expel the Romans. Instead the Jewish leadership had him removed as an enemy to the state and their relationship with Rome (the status quo again).
Fast forward 15-20 years, the Cult of Jesus was still very small and exclusively for Jews only. Must obey Jewish law and all that means. Paul comes along and effectively hijacks the religion from Peter and James by letting gentiles become Christians without following Jewish law. In hindsight, marketing genius or else Jesus would just be a footnote today. Paul was still a revolutionary and believed the end of the world as they knew it was close, even advising people not to bother getting married because there was no point. He was eventually imprisoned and his life ended (for trying to upset the status quo)
Go another 20 years and the First Jewish War, another crushed aspiring Messiah, and now the Second Temple and Jerusalem is methodically destroyed by the Romans. It is difficult to express today how devastating this would be to Jewish people, the epicenter of their entire faith and world is a smoldering ruin. It is not a coincidence that only then the written gospels start to be written with curious and convenient "quotes" from Jesus two generations previously about how He was the temple now. The Gospel of Mark was the earliest and written after the temple was destroyed.
There were other revolts and professed Messiahs like Simon bar Kohkba (~130 AD). But they all ended the same. Romans crushing any attempt and the leaders assuming room temperature.
Jesus was a bit of a trickster in real life - and the bible does a good job of removing some of his 'flaws' - but one of them is still in the KJV, where the roman guards catch him with a small child in the woods - naked.... the boy runs off and doesn't give an explanation - but Jesus says 'Hey - chill out guys, its not like I'm one of those child pimps or something...' which is kind of a weird thing to say - as the guards hadn't actually accused him of anything yet. Also - there are plenty of stories of Jesus not getting crucified - and living to the age of nearly 70, but lots of dieties based off of real people - were crucified in their stories. It just makes him die a hero rather than live to be a creepy old man. Lots of people do it.
2:10 *My God how little you know. Vespasian and his son Titus tried to portrait themselves as the Son of Man (Jesus) after they destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. They knew exactly what the Christians believed and expected.*
The fall of the Romans were prophetic as narrated in the book of Daniel. The statute that appeared in the King of Babylon’s dream. The mixture of clay and iron on the feet represented the Romans. The Stone that crushed the feet represented the Romans were crushed to be replaced by the eternal Empire non other than the Catholic Church based in Rome
Medea we need you more than ever!
i think I like Bart Ehrman's point best about why the Romans specifically crucified Jesus - he claimed to be King of the Jews. So they didn't like the idea of someone challenging Roman authority. Like, "Hey man. This is not the town of the Jews this is part of Rome. You wanna fight us then, well, time for you to find out about the cross, pal."... Like that.
this rings true on a visceral level, many degrees less abstracted than notions of legitimacy, theology and the like
Ancient-world Alexandrian media told feel-good, reality-inverting whoppers about violent uprisings and rebel leaders in Judea; it spread to the Roman-occupied people of North Africa and was peddled by "mystery mongers" to the Roman gutter where, as Aldrete says, it was embraced by women and slaves. It was always a propagandistic subversion. Ehrman won't go there-- but I do wonder how deeply he understands this.
Answer starts at 8:40
Gregory Aldrete is the reincarnation of Soprano’s Tony.
I love how matter of fact he says "they existed at the same time". And if my cousin's, dentist's, father-in-law's 10th great grandpa gave a verbal only account of a ghost sighting, it would carry infinitely more weight
Rome the mother of world the eternal city and the return of the imperum
She is not my mother not in eastern world which far older then rome. India first civilization created everything from medical science philosophy tonight universities to engineering agriculture. Writing system. Thats who we are
Romans did not want to crucify Jesus, the Jews demanded it. “Let his blood be on us, and our children”
For Christian history one of the best books to read is The Great Controversy. Highly recommended
This guy is a classic historian.
He assumes that ancient Christians would have the same practices as modern Christians. It is likely that Pliny had good information about the activities of the Christians that his security people had observed.
Also no reference to Gibbons.
or chimpanzees
Clearly, Plimy didn't at the time of his letter to the emporer.
The letters of Paul are dated between 48 - 65 AD. The Gospels between 67 - 110 AD. Two of the earliest Christian writers outside of the New Testament are both Bishops, Clement I, Bishop of Rome ~ 97 AD, and Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch ~ 108 AD. Their letters give a quite clear picture of what Christians in the first and second centuries believe and practice, and it's very similar to today's apostolic churches, such as the Orthodox, Catholic and Oriental churches.
Roman Empire is still around , in the form of a church..
Yep, very much alive and well.
It's still around in the form of Western Civilization.
Better answer @@ryan7864
@@ryan7864Yep, this is more accurate; the Western Civilization aka the New Rome.
lex. if you could somehow get these podcasts translated in spanish so that my parents can understand the topics? That'd be phenomenal!
Mr. Aldrete does not comprehend the Gospel when he says Christianity offers you a reward in the afterlife. There is no reward for being a "good Christian". Rather their is a free gift of grace for the unworthy people who have invited Jesus into their heart.
The people at the bottom rebelling against the selfish at the top... what a suprise
It's not true that two slave women were "leading early Christianity". Yes there were many deaconesses (which just means servant). The early church was led by the apostles and then their disciples (think Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp of Smyrna). This guy is making some bold claims
There were many female leaders such as Lydia and others.
Good clip 👍
He didn't even answer the question; what did Jesus do to get killed?
Well, if Jesus existed at all, he would've been executed simply because that's what the Romans did to people the conceived of as troublemakers. He would've been no more important in their estimation as your average troublemaker.
@@Hemingway-dq4fx"Well if Jesus existed at all" Well notwithstanding any of the supernatural elements, what makes you skeptical of his historicity?(Which with all due respect is not contested at all by even non religious historians.).
@@alexiscorral5594 not proven as a historical figure ,Jesus
@@fistfull1 "Not proven as a historical figure" Once again You don't have to be religious to see otherwise whether as Lord by the earliest Christians or as a sorcerer & blasphemer by their enemies.
@@Hemingway-dq4fxJesus the person did exist, that is a fact, any historian will tell you that the same as the one in the video. The question is was he really the son of god and did he perform miracles.
Really great for such a compression of subject.
One of the hard things to understand is that the Jewish Elders were able to explain and reach an accommodation with the Roman elites. They would have prayers to God for the emperor's health.
Why the Christians did not reach a similar accommodation is a mystery to me.
"Basically, worship another God was the sticking point"?? Jesus was born in the Jewish community...WHO WORSHIP GOD!!! Since their faith began....BEFORE the Romans!!! I love this historian on the oodcast...but this topic is not his realm of expertise.
Their problem was with praising caesar as a god.
Yeah, I was confused by that line of reasoning as well. Why didn't they just become Jewish then prior to Christianity? Both monotheistic, same God.
@@michaelmannion1963 i believe what he was referring to was the jews having an issue with acknowledging the roman emporer/caesar as a devine figure. That was the sticking point he was referring to, the jews could not accept a second god, the roman pagans could not understand why.
You've misunderstood what he's saying.
Or praising anything as God , because it's not what our creator is
legitimacy is the same reason Alexander went to Siwa in Egypt after conquering it to be sanctified by the priests, apparently
It may go over lots of your heads, but peep this... Why would a small "insignificant religion"...amongst many over a time become so prominent even Emperors wants to affiliate with it? Let that sink in.
In the bible it says to pay tax to the Caesar and fight the Babylonians. Isn't rocket science
@@GUYE-FAWKES because the emperors were the ones who made it up.
Because by the time it was made a state religion, a large section of the population was already Christian and demographics is destiny.
?
@Hacktheplanet_ Render Caesar what belongs to Caesar does not mean what it apparently means to you.
3:08 cringe.
Basically the entire religion has been warped through politics
Nah, we did it on purpose. We serve a different King.
The entire religion was created through politics lol.
Essentially, yeah, politicians know how to use anything to their advantage and will warp anything for their own personal gain. The Roman emperors saw Christianity as a popular cause that was growing amongst the commoners and slaves. They hijacked it to keep themselves alive from any brewing revolts, but to also place themselves at the top of a religious hierarchy that they created for it. After the schism, Western Rome would eventually fall along with their emperor, but the Pope would replace the head of their hierarchy for Christians in Western Europe as Catholics. In Eastern Rome, the Emperor in Constantinople remained roughly at the top of Christianity in Orthodox churches.
Despite the early Roman leaders who minted themselves as “Christians” many of them simply used this religious conversion of theirs just to keep their people in check. The apostle Paul had preached to everyone that “all men are equal in Christ,” yet the Roman leaders continued to practice slavery while using the religion to keep their slaves from turning against them.
No the entire religion has been the same since its inception
@@stevehopkins2657are you talking about Islam?
Wow, What Lex said has me thinking a little differently about Christianity. The whole conversation was deeply interesting and insightful. A lot to chew on.
Pray for discernment. These two arent speaking Gods truth
What he said about Pliny the Younger being one of the most traveled, most educated Roman’s of that day, and because he didn’t know much about Christians suggests that a lot of people didn’t is bad logic. For example, if you apply that same logic today with Muslims, a well traveled, well educated person may not know much about Islam, but that doesn’t mean that a lot of people don’t. I’m sure as high ranking Roman he had plenty of other things to worry about and maybe that suggests why he didn’t know much about Christians.
Yes that was a leap
He was comparing the movies, where every high official was obsessed with Jesus and Christianity, to the reality where many of them still didn't know much about Christians and Christianity.
@@davidlynch9049 he didn’t say that. And the movies only depict what scripture says. When the situation was brought to Herod, a high ranking official, he could care less about the situation. If Nero knew who the Christians were, which you can refer to Tacitus for proof of that, I’m sure a lot of people knew who they were. Especially after Pilate put him to death.
That’s actually a fantastic idea. For everyone to every day Start repenting of their folly and holding each other accountable and adopting new attitudes towards one another and life.
☦️
They didn’t call themselves Christians back then.. they were Israelites
Wrong. Christianity spread quickly into Gentile cities like Corinth, Ephesus and many others all over the Med. sea.
It’s cool worship you’re god. Buttt you gotta worship the god emperor 😎
all hail leto ii! second of his name, god emperor of dune
Slightly oversimplified but good to see curiosity of God in these platforms which only open more minds to the truth which is Christ and true salvation of all our brokenness
Lex was looking for "love" for the answer, instead the historian got into factual analysis.
lolol "Love. Is the answer." Fridman
0:08 LOL THIS IS THE BEST that was so funny when he said co existed Lex's face 😂😂😂 I almost busted out laughing Lex face that's funny this video was hilarious yet awesome at the same time 😂
Jesus really should have his own Netflix special by now, imagine the dad jokes.
The chosen tv series
What he’s missing about the Pliny letter is that Pliny is concerned the Temple animal sacrifices had ceased where the Christian’s moved in. And that they ate simple “innocent” food… aka plants and no animal flesh and death. Trajan asked they sacrifice an animal to the gods to repent. Watch the upcoming film Christspiracy for more about these early Nazarene/Ebionite Christians and their opposition to the temple animal sacrifices aka slaughterhouse cult.
Watch the historically accurate movie "The Life of Brian" by acclaimed historians "Monty Python" for further detail.
For all americans out there: this is a joke.
There's deaconess but not church structure?
Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew. The term “Christian” was not used until the third century.
The Christ is certainly a later title, and he wasn’t a Christian, his followers are.
Acts 11:26 says the disciples in Antioch were first called Christians. The book of Acts is thought to have been written between 70 and 90 CE.
@@vonroretz3307 It is interesting because "The Christ" (Acts 8:37) is generally thought to have been added later since the oldest manuscripts from the fourth century does not have it. But then in Acts 11 they refer to the followers as Christians.
@@jameskoutnik8213 But what is Judaism, the Mosaic covenant requires a Priesthood, sacrifice and a Temple. The jewish identity is based on a messianic teleology where in the end they rebuild the Temple and take over the world. Whats holding them back? They will only build it on what the believe is the original site which has 2 ancient mosques on it..
He was not a Jew. He is the Son of God. Christian is how you define the followers. Great non-sequiter though. Really added to the conversation.
One big flaw with the emperor choosing Christianity as a way to say God chose him and therefore the legitimate emperor is that the person would have to be emperor first before making Christianity the official religion. Also, that would mean all others would not want Christianity if they weren't the chosen or they could also say they were chosen. I don't see how this argument is even in the top 10 reasons why an emperor would choose Christianity.
Christ is Lord.
Odin is the worlds lord
@@thor.halslistop worshiping comic book characters. That’s all they are since our real God walked the earth.
@@MrMustang13 Odin still walks the earth. His son too. Your boy died on a cross, he can't help anyone
@@thor.halsli St Boniface chopped down your boys tree and that basically erased Norse mythology’s relevance lol
@Core-oh no, Randy Marsh is Lord
Did he mention Tacitus, the Roman historian who called Jesus a miracle worker?
Who was Jesus?
God. Still is.
Jew
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End"
He played bowling in the Big Lebowsky
Worlds greatest con man
Tom Holland needs to come on to discuss his book Dominion
The problem with historians like this is that they view the past through their own materialist modern eyes and don’t see the world as the ancients saw it, so they miss a lot. He also has very little knowledge of Christianity and the early church. The early Christians were not focused on the afterlife. Eternal life began in this life on earth.
“In gods eyes, we’re all equal” … well we’re still working on that 😭😫
Yeshua was a Jew, not a Christian. When they crucified yeshua the Roman’s mocked him by proclaiming him “king of the Jews.”
Yeah he was the christ
He was the Christ, the people who invented college didn't go to college but u believe college exists correct?
Who claimed that Jesus was Christian?
Jesus cannot be Christian because “Christian “ is a person who follows Jesus.
That’s just like calling Al-llah, the Arabian god, a Muslim.
@eastsideapologetics6147 we know Jesus was the Christ not a christ ian, christ meaning the one who has the anti venom or anointment for sin. Anointment meaning an- ointment, the ointment for any individuals sin like neo-sporin or any ointment, that's what christ means. We know he's the christ not a christian
Interesting side fact - there was an exemption for Jewish community on emperor "worship" (maybe from the history of experience with the Macabees vs Selucids, maybe from Herod the "great" influence - he was mates with Augustus in some ways).
So it was only when the conflict between early (Jewish) Christians & Jewish (traditional) communities lead to more distinct separating, and Christianity becoming more Gentile led, that the persecution by Rome began.
The question around how Christianity spread is still interesting in the period leading up to Constantine - if it had still been a marginal cult at that point, he would have picked another God for legitimacy (his mum's influence notwithstanding). Charitable deeds were a big part, but enduring persecution in the early days, just to do good, isn't logical. The first Christians died defending their experience of encountering a man (Yeshua / Jesus) risen from the dead, as evidence of his claims to be more than a man.
This guy knows very little about church history. The structure of the church was established by the apostles. He states in the interview that some women were deaconess, and this was before the church was established. The three orders of the church bishop, presbyter, and deacon were established after Pentecost in book of acts.
Love you Jesus ❤
Isaiah 9:6 "[...] and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Interesting. I wish Christians today kept with the original Jesus philosophy. Everyone is equal and helping the needy. The so-called trump followers today are full of hate and rage.
Don't bring politics into this. Lol.
Not all Christians vote by default for Trump. Absurd take.
They’re the Romans now
This probably isn't the most accurate way of thinking the past. The problem is that you're trying to take the religion out of religion and explain history as if religion especially Christianity, is mostly a means to consolidate power. This isn't true. For some reason, many people today wish to explain history in the perspective of today's mindset. The thing you must understand about religion and the history of humanity is that religion only becomes more real and revelant as you trace humans past further back. The further back in time you go, the more religious they were and really believed and lived by these ideas. You can absolutely track the success of humans by the evolution of their religion and how certain religions didn't provide as good as a platform as others for humanity to flourish. Those people who thought of themselves chosen really did think that. Chosen as a living representation of that current religious belief. These ideas developed over time and didn't really come about by one mans abilities to dominate. The majority of whom were ruled over were not just subjects without any reason to take serious. If these chosen ones became unrecognizable as representatives of the religion of the population, then this evolution happens within the population and new ideas of freedom stir about and when put in its proper place a new chapter of history is born. They all really believed in these religious ideas!! So does everyone else whether they admit it or not. You cannot get to the mindset of people today and pretend all that didn't come from religion. All our our ancient knowledge was developed around. We didn't just wake up yesterday and accumulated all this knowledge overnight.
✝️
Emperors using Christianity to pull out the “God said, only I can be emperor” card is crazy.
The evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed at all is worse than you think.
Why do gay liberal Jewish scholars say otherwise then?
@@autisticphaglosophy7128 Because they want you to be in the Abrahamic Matrix and worship their god
🤦♂️
Wrong. Check with historians at any Ivy League university. Read history!
I'm no historian but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Romans didn't see the sacrifices and prayers to the Emperor as "patriotism." That's putting modern thinking back into an era that it doesn't belong in.
Jesus was a myth, But so are the stories of the Torah (Old testament)
There was no Moses, there was no exodus from Egypt to the promised land
You are funny
@@Revivalism23
Moses never existed.
The Torah was written 500 BC
Before that the jews were polytheists
ruclips.net/video/7rI8x3RQUSU/видео.html
there is a lot more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the existence of Caesar
Don’t forget, Galilee was a very zealous place who had always rejected roman authority
Odin > Christ
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY KTHULHU - OUR ONE TRUE LORD AND MASTER!!!
Funny since Christ put those religions in the ground and now it’s just dorks who pretend they’re still relevant to spite the True God.
Nonsense
Odin is dead.
@@Kikiyome We get it. Your indoctrinated.
He gets ancient Christianity's understanding of the "afterlife" wrong, but the rest is fascinating and great stuff!
Christianity is not mainly about helping the poor. Christianity is about Christ - who He is and what he did. It was popular, and still is, because it offers free salvation for all who believe. It is the only religion like that (Rom 4:5 and about 150 other verses). Not hard to understand and not sure how you could miss it if you read the Bible.
Why lie and tell people there is an afterlife though? Why is that necessary?
lots of people will miss this post.
Fair comment but who can honestly say there isn't an afterlife? It's really a personal gamble to live a Christian lifestyle and hope that how you lived will be remembered by God and Jesus. That's the practical definition of faith
It all comes down to money.
Can you provide evidence for your claim that the afterlife is a lie? You wouldn't lie about that right that's not necessary?
@@NewportPíoneer27 the gamble is wether a person wants to choose to believe in God and live in a way that's acceptable to him through accurate knowledge, or choose to be their own God and adopt standards they want. Being a 'good' person is subjective to each individual and even Jesus said no one is good except God. Wether we go to heaven or live forever on a paradise earth is Jesus decision, naturally God knows who he decides to ressurect from death based on heart condition and lifestyle choices each free willed human has made in their lifetime. I'm all for living in a way our creator would expect and grateful to experience this thing we call life, I hope anyone reading this thread feels the same
Christianity came through all these tribulations, because it’s the Truth☦️🙏
And it shall come through any sick trends of our age as well❤
Spoiler alert: Jesus was a myth.
Ok then
Spoiler alert: you are the antithesis of your username
Stop lying
I was hoping they would have discussed the Councils of Nicaea and Emperor Justinian