BIG differences!!! Mega 2023 Super Light Motor Test!
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- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2022
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COMPLETE RUNDOWN of these motors! Including a Drag Race, Noise Test and MORE! Fazua Ride 60 and TQ HPR50 are the HOTTEST lightweight ebike motor systems for 2023. In this video I give a complete rundown of both these motors for lightweight electric mountain bikes!
This video provides an in depth review of the Fazua Ride 60 and TQ HPR 50.
Bike such as the Transition Relay, Pivot Shuttle SL, Haibike Lyke, Focus Jam2 SL use the Fazua Ride 60.
Trek Fuel EXe uses the TQ, as well as Simplon Rapcon Pmax and BMC Fourstroke AMP also use the TQ HPR50
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To add - the motors are near silent on descents - barely any noticeable rattles (especially compared with Shimano / Bosch)
Also, TQ responded to a small number users experiencing noises. Here’s what they said:
Hey Rob! Just wanted to give you a quick heads up regarding the noise discussions
We are currently working on this topic. It has no influence on the motor’s performance or durability and seams to be no more than a peculiarity of one of the sprag clutches of our motor.
If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seams that the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise. The forces in such a scenario are however extremely low and do not put any mentionable wear on the internals of the motor.
From everything we know and all the 1000s of field testing kilometers we have already done this issue is nothing to worry about.
Nevertheless the low noise is one of our strongest USPs and we are working on a solution. We believe that some tweaks in the motor controller algorithm could reduce or even completely remove this noise. Our goal is to roll out a software update before the end of this year.
I was just about to ask about rattles and descending noise.
When you bang the top tube on the haibike it sounds a bit rattly, is that just the bike or that display?
I was already thinking about a shuttle SL and now I'm pretty much sold.
Love the production quality 👍
what about having beeps with various pitch ? THAT would be useful !, but a bit more expensive, i think some of those components have fixed pitch.
@@nitraM321 wholy wreck, you come on strong fella. Rob might knee'd to listen before you go full ham I'd say 🦵
@@nitraM321 so long as it's a fairly consistent approach who cares? It's his knees and if you look at 17:28 his saddle is up?
It’s actually a technique I use on steep climbs. If I had the seat 3-4cm higher the bike would have looped out on that climb. I’m tall, long saddle height creates a slack seat angle and places my weight over the rear wheel. Dropped saddle when climbing counteracts this and keeps gravity low, whilst providing a steeper effective seat angle. It’s MUCH easier for me to climb with low seat.
Ps- Knees are fine from squatting and deadlifting enough over the years to build strength in legs
Great review Rob, one thing I have noticed over the years of reviewing, nobody seems to talk about the expected lifespan of the motors, loss of power or increased noise over time, I mean how many KMs can we expect to have in useful life before rebuilding/refurbishing, and do the companies ever talk about that. I know it "Depends" on usage power settings , etc but same goes for batteries, how many full charge cycles can we expect to get, battery useful life vs motor useful life, which one usually needs full replacement first? High dollar stuff, it would be nice to at least have a ballpark time frame in mind.
who knew Haibike could make an attractive bicycle!
Lol I thought it was Mérida.
My 2018 nduro looks fantastic. It get s more looks sitting outside of the bike shop where I work than any other product in the shop.
Great video mate, great to see that the tech is moving along to lighter systems. Awesome to see how far you’ve come since you started the channel, keep it up matey 🎉
Both of these bikes are beautiful. Things are happening very quickly in the world of ebikes, incredible progress in the last few years. The great looking enclosed motors have very little exposed surface area for cooling capacity. They could tend to be wonderfully compact heatsinks.
Excellent vid!! Personally, waiting to see what Spesh do next with their SL range of bikes. Love my Levo SL ( semi-jokingly stands for Slow and Loud) but there's room for improvement in the motor, and the bar has been set higher...
Great report Rob! Made me decide to keep my new Pivot shuttle sl. I needed the input to convince me I was being too picky. Hopefully Fazua with continue to work on their software and improve the few things that bother me. It would be really nice to have a more intuitive display. As of right now, there's no odometer that records distance, except a trip meter that resets when you don't want it to. And like you mentioned, the ring control could use and upgrade. I do prefer buttons.
Great review Rob. With bikes this £££ you're absolutely right to be super critical on quality of materials, construction, performance and design. 👍
Great, honest, detailed test rob, you really do a thorough none biased test, bikes are too expensive, but if you've got it, why not, trek looks the best in my view.
Really well done video and review. This feels much more "real/honest" than the same kinds of reviews on other channels. Very impressed with your content. It's all the information I wanted to hear but ironically, I STILL can't decide if lightweight or full fat is right for me.
Hi Rob, great content as usual. I really like those new lightweight motors. BUT what I really like about my analog bike is that it has almost no plastic. With ebikes, there's much more plastic and components that will not age well. So actually I like the fact that Fazua has the option to NOT have a display (currently exploited by none) and to NOT have an external charging port (currently exploited by Focus). Do you know if the TQ has also that option?
Per usual, excellent and timely real-world comparison as these two motor companies are hot and innovative...and pricey-worth-it l!🍻
Super review as always Rob!
I don't care how fast the bike is up a hill, just as long as it provides enough power for me to make it. I tried the Trek yesterday, and coming from a full power bike (Decoy) I was concerned it wasn't going be enough power up a steep hill. I tried a steep climb and even at the mid power setting was plenty. I'd consider myself "medium fit" if that matters. As far as the noise...yes it made more noise than my normal bike, but I don't think other trail users would notice if you didn't tell them it was an e-MTB. The level of noise was way lower than that person you see that obviously hasn't lubed their chain in months. Great video. I'm now leaning heavily to the Trek and bumping up the fork to 160mm.
power and performance are equal..meanwhile besides Orbeia I see no mfrs providing an additional battery pack for longer rides...Ill stay away from these and keep my Orbea, with the additional battery pack option and capability
Downside is the battery. 360 is really 240wh compared to all other systems out there
@@lutomson3496 Trek offers a booster battery, and their version of how it's integrated is awesome. On other ebikes, the booster charges the main which is where all their power is drawn. That means the booster has to be on from the beginning of the ride and you also can't just run on the booster. In the trek, the bike draws from the booster first until it's empty before it draws from the main battery. That means if you are at the bike park and the main battery runs low, you can cruise by the car and pick up the booster. You can also run off the booster by its self. That means you could fly with the bike and just the booster as it is small enough to be allowed on planes. No one has commented on how Fazua will handle this as their booster will not come out until next spring.
@@tonyrobinson1623 Problem is the motor is a energy hog so your battery range is 75% other light weight bikes. With an Orbea Rise or Fazua or Specialized SL, you can do a lot more elevation using boost
Blacque Jaque Shellacque....I too came from a full power bike and I bought the Trek. I was worried the bike would not be enough power for a "medium fit" rider. I've ridden very steep and technical climbs and there is plenty of power. I also bumped up the front travel to 160 and I absolutely love how the bike handles.
❤- Been looking forward to this one!
Good video, now we need a test for super heavy motors like the m620
Thanks, great video! It would have been nice to see full powered ebike as a comparison reference like your Trek Rail. Maybe you have some video about it. Going to search your videos... LOL. How about Orbea Rise vs. these guys.
Tank you for the comparison Rob. It’s surprising the lack of Fazua info or reviews.
Do you know something about the problems of the TQ during hotter days? Some users reported the motor stop working in that conditions
Great video, many thanks!
Nice test.
I like these light E-MTBs. Look great and are great to drive. I drive an Orbea Rise myself.
For a new bike, the Fazua would be my favorite.
But: Your advertising reminds me of the film "soylent green" - who takes something like that voluntarily?
To me Fazua is the leader of light bike's.
I hope to change my actual bike to some new with the Fazua 60, with best balance between power ,battery and obviously range.
I Love the Ring display its so neat
Full power for me due to heart condition, saying that these new low power light bikes are awesome
Rob, as always: perfect video !! How does the power of the Fazua feel in comparison to the Shimano EP 8 RS in the Orbea Rise ?
An insightful and well thought out analysis.
Both nice. I'd prefer the fast engagement, nice controls and stealth look over more slightly power. Now I hope this gets more mainstream and cheaper. :). I'd prefer even lighter batteries that are easy to change and carry 1-2 spare ones in backpack. One more reason for the TQ being closer to what I need. But Fazua 60 looks like having better chance to become more ubiquitous.
At he moment, the TQ is contractually limited to Trek, at least in the US. When that expires, I expect many more companies will use it.
17:04 had exactly the same experience when I test drove the Trek. Was also breathless for a second or two. Not sure if 8100 bucks spend in stealth and lightness is worth the additional pedaling.. no idea what to buy now. Great review Rob, thanks for the detailed review and the great quality content!
Hi Rob, hoe would you compare the Fazua 60 to an Ep8? Sure que Ep8 should be more punchy, but on long regular climb, mine always seem to phase back to a « apparent » 250w average output after a few second of constant torque.
When looking at the torque gauge on the display of the ep8, it also seems to not gove the full 85 nm when you have a constant pedal input at 80-90 rpm cadence.
So i wonder if in the end, both will deliver the same average power of 250 watt.
Thanks for your answer
Hi Rob, love your videos! I need some advice. I have a Commencal meta power with a Shimano e8000 motor. I want to change the chainring from 34t to 32t is this just a straight forward swap or will it screw up the motors program? I don’t see how it would but I’m getting mixed opinions.
Thx Steve
TQ with 70 nm would be a perfect sweet spot for me
Forget the torque ... the wattage is the important metric! 60rpm~6rad/s .... means max. 300W (50nm x 6rad/s) you get only 50Nm when u paddle slower than 60prm ... that's quiet slow. When he paddles 120prm in the video uphill he got only 25Nm 😉
Here in Switzerland, the second-hand marketplace is full of these low-powered E-bikes with very low KM's, in the mountains, they just don't have enough grunt.
Agree. Work in a bike shop in Austria and its a hard sell. Just too weak for our environment.
did you do this climb on a full fat emtb ? i wonder what would be the time, comparing to these two...
Makes me wonder, if one has got a bike with an older version of the Fazua, say the Fazua 50 Evation, would it be possible to upgrade to this newer model?
Really appreciate your work Rob, we can always count on you for a fair & comprehensive appraisal.
I realize that they're targeted for a different market segment but without riding them it's difficult to put performance into the proper perspective. Can I ask your opinion on how these bikes climb in comparison to a Levo 2.x?
Good test 👌. Will maybe buy one next season .
Thanks for the review Rob, amazing comparison. I have got a Cube Stereo Hybrid 140TM of 22, with the latest bosch system, no complain but i really think this motor technology is the future. If bosch does not come up quickly with a similar motor they will be out of business soon...
I would like to see a comparison of the TQ HPR50 and the MAHLE Ebikemotion X35 on road bikes.
Rob, I've got an important question. If you put the fazua in the fastest mode, which mode is it most comparable to in a full fat ebike? emtb? tour?
Which light weight enduro style ebikes would you suggest for a USA consumer?
Rob, excellent video. The real winner here are us. The bikes are so good, choices, choices!
Considering how chunky Santa Cruz frames have become, there’s so much empty space to hide things. I find it super cool that eventually you might be unable to tell at all
i'm loving the TQ, I can maybe hold out for another 3-4 years before e-MTB's are just too good a deal to pass up on. Waiting for the price to come down a bit still
Great video. I've been waiting to buy a new bike for one of these motors to hit a frame that I like. On the subject of displays, I really don't care. I'd rather the motor companies produce a good Garmin, Wahoo, ... app integration than spend the money on a half-a$$ed screen on the bike itself. If you do a follow-up could you look at 1. the unpowered resistance of the motors and 2. the incorporated power meters in the units. Also, it seems like you could run an oval chainring on the TQ. Is that right? Cheers.
Thanks for the great video and comparison
Was very curious about the new Fazua's motor, but only up to the point when figured out it's not removable anymore!
IMHO its absolutely pointless, cause if you don't need a flexibility of removing the motor and battery (like in the previous version),
why bother at all? Just take a well-known, high-performance Bosch CX
Great comparison. Personally waiting for TQ to improve its power and range ever so slightly. A quiet motor is my top requirement. I do have one suggestion and it was mentioned during the test, IMO the rear tires should be the same for this type of comparison. Cheers
I would love to know how steep (% gradient) the climb is at about time 17:00. I'm trying to get an idea of assist level. My reference is a .48 mile 13.4% climb that starts at about 9500 feet to 9900 feet that is a local climb done on an unassisted mountain bike. I'm 70 and have never ridden an ebike, and it's time to get one!
Thanks a lot for that interesting video. I've had a FF kenevo and then a Kenevo SL. Loved the latter for the DHs. Didn't like the lack of power and the noise on the uphills. Had my eyes on the new Ghost Path Riot with the Fazua, since this seems to have the best price, parts, weight, power ratio. 😂 But somehow I'm not fully convinced when it comes to that fazua. Still considering the fuel exe. But it doesn't have any more power than the KSL, it's just much quieter. And it's not any lighter, considering the KSL is equipped with 38s and X2 etc.. your Enduro Exe is probably just short of 20kgs..?
Rode the trek and it was so good
Great Review!
How much motor resitence do get when pedaling on your own? Do they differ (Fazua/TQ)?
I think the goal for a light Emtb is, that you can pedal like a normal (14-15.5kg) Trail/Enduro Bike, but gives you the benefit
to overcome some steep section, without your heart rate going to explode.
I know, if you train more, you get better. But many of us, dont have the time for this. I also own two bikes (old Canyon NERVE, and a Rocky Mountain Powerplay).
The Canyonwill be replaced by a Trek slash 7. So i will have a 15.5kg enduro mtb with no motor. I think I can climb with this bike 1200-1600m. The problem is, when there are steep
sections included, its going to be very painfull or you have to take the walk of shame. At this time, the motor should come in handy to overcome those steep climbs.
Therefore, i wouldn´t call a 19 - 20 kg Ebike a light EMTB. But 15-16kg EMTB are rare and very expensive.
I like the look and feel of the Trek. But the affordable version (about 6500 EUR) weighs 19.5kg. Thats a bit to much for pedaling uphill without motor.
So having a 20kg ebike, you always need some assistance (uphill), just to overcome the weight penalty of your Bike.
Ithink more or less only on shallow climbs an level roads, it makes sense to pedal without motor with a 20kg ebike.
No reason to have mantain 2 bikes, when there are bikes whit the forzua motor (nox for example) that let you take out the motor and battery leaving you whit a 15.2 Kgs "normal" bike.
very informative ! thx for that ! ; )
Great comparison! I like the look of the TQ but still cannot make sense of the low power high $$$$ e-bikes.
It’s like with everything, weight - power - range you can only pick too.
Get the Stark Varg 60 or 80 hp for $1399. Ye ha
Would like to know your time on the climb on your custom rail!
what gripes are those ? look nice and comfy
Great comparison, thank you but I will keep my Trek Fuel e :)
how respectively is the drag with the motor turned off?
Good news for the Fazua
Fazua seems to have found the secret Voodoo magic for the lightweight future. I imagine the next gen with 80 nm and bit lighter.
no, i think the TQ is a LOT better !!, it's a lot smaller, so, more room to grow, and that reduction in size is also a reduction in complexity, i don't think there is a better motor right now, but they should make it in 50, 75, 100, 125 nm versions (or something like that)
@@nitraM321 Hopefully fazua gets much better in the Future, since they should have now more money to develop. They are now owned by Porsche, which recently bought Fazua.
@@nitraM321 TQ is not efficient so 360wh of battery is really closer to 250wh. Many Former owners of SL or Rise owners doing 3000’ on those bikes and only 2000-2200 on the Trek.
For me the Treks ability to run just on the range extender and the fact its 160Wh means I can travel on aircraft to holiday destinations
Great video thanks mate. I want to mention though that no one is testing road or fitness e-bikes. Why? There are a lot of people interested in those bikes. There are so many new ones but no reviews.
Good comparison. Those bikes look amazing. I guess the question is how does that lighter fazua bike climb compared to a full weight ep8 bike?
i have an ep8 in my 17 kilo bike, full power, 85 nm, why choose ?
@@nitraM321 choices, curiosity. I have an e8000 in my decoy so i could guage that fazua v ep8 comparison in regards to mine
Would have been interesting if you had also tested and compared with a full-power bike. Otherwise, a very good video. Thanks Rob
SOOOOO as a TREK fan I am earring back to the full-on Rail ... lots of power and double sexy looking - for a MTB that is
The new Rail with the giant battery looks huge. They should have left the battery alone and just added a range extender option for when you want a big day.
Waiting for the new specialized sl motor
Great video Rob
How are these bike to pedal when they run out of battery?
And is it possible to connect to a Garmin to the Trek bike?
Yes works really well with Garmin. It picked up power data from the motor (rider power) as well as other data. It works great!
forget Garmin they make awful products, get a quadlock and use a phone
Hi Rob. Can I ask what you have on your Max next to the lens? I ride with one too, Stuntman and all. But can’t figure out what you got there.
Just a mic cover to stop wind noise!
Hi Rob, what is the make and model of the glasses you use seen in this video? They look really good
100% Glendale 👍👍
Thanks! 😁 love your content, keep up the great work.
good job! would be nice to add video chapters
These two bikes look super modern and forward looking, with great aesthetics. Love the direction things are going with this category.
But that Trek is in a class of its own!
Agreed!
Pricepointwise ...
Hi Rob,
maybe you can help me out with Fazua motor system because bike dealers can't. I want to buy a bike with that system but I would like to run the cable connecting the ring controller and the system inside my carbon (one up components) handlebar. Do you (or anyone else) know if I can disconnect this cable from the ring controller or the frame to run it through the tiny hole in the handlebar (just like you do in EP8 system)? I looked at it in the shop and it seemed to me that the cable is attached to the ring and the frame without any plug in/out options. What do you think?
glad manufacture is going the right path , important to be light ,2nd inconspicuous so u can ride your ebike anywhere . trek design is better integration look of an acoustic bike . vs the thick over size chunky down tube . I would prefer less /smaller battery than a big one & heavy bike .Anywhere the whole idea riding like a regular MTB with a boost ,not a motor bike for a race to the top!
Rob, general look at the connectors - please?! Some are really high grade (like Bosch) others - not so much.
Can you retro fit motors?
How is the integration with cycle computers like garmin?
On the TQ it’s great, Fazua didn’t work yet but they plan to introduce it.
what stem and bars are you using on the trek? thanks
Bergtec 50mm rise bar and Nukeproof horizon 35mm stem
Always love Rob's videos, but this one oddly omits the benchmark (Orbea Rise M series with EP8-RS ~ 42 lb) for context against the new lightweight eMTBs. Rise works well for those who'd pick a proven/reliable platform over the "paid-beta" motors (rough starts on TQ50 and Fazua 60 so far - so buying launch-year products is for the rich as these products are still being debugged.) At $7K+ USD for decent spec, it's reasonable to expect reliable, nimble bikes delivering a great overall user experience - including the display (Shimano EM800 is great on my M10), tune-able app support, an meaningful range extender options. Vid does a GREAT job showing the ~ 6 sec improvement going from a 50 Nm to 60 Nm motor can provide. I did similar on a Rise rental before I purchased mine - I used eTube app to set Profile 2's trail to 50 Nm and Boost at 60 Nm, allowing me to toggle between TQ50 torque (50 Nm) and full EP8-RS torque (60 Nm) as I challenged some climbs in Post Canyon. That extra 10 Nm was a meaningful difference, especially midway up the climb. EP8-RS is reasonably quiet/stealthy and does have the EP8's coasting clatter over bumps, but that's a reasonable tradeoff as it's not a reliability issue / "audibly cosmetic." Rode the EXe and loved the silence - but it wasn't quiet enough to make up for the delta in torque. My context includes larger eMTBs too - traded a 85 Nm Gen4 Bosch's diesel-like low-cadence torque in a Rail 9.8 GX to get the Rise M10's 9 lb measured lighter weight and nicer equipment spec (Fox, Shimano, etc.) I'm admittedly biased after extensive primary & secondary research before deciding on Rise M vs. EXe vs. waiting for 2023s, but every ride on the Rise is the most fun I've had on a bike.
I had the Rise in the full powered motor test vid, along with the SL motor from Specialized and covered timed test, integration etc - but agree would have been good to include it here 👍
Since Rob's reviews ~ Top Gears beauty/writing/knowledge, hoping he'll compare the Fuel EXe, Lyke, Shuttle SL, Rise Mx, Siryon, Relay, Levo SL (old 35Nm vs. new) and other '23s. Keep up the great work.
@@RobRidesEMTB Welcome your thoughts on flash-tuning the EP8-RS from 60 Nm to 70-80 Nm range (but no change to speed limits, so still Class 1). Wish Shimano/Orbea would enable that upgrade like Tesla does its "Acceleration Boost" (drops 0-60 from 4.8 sec to 4.3 for $2K via OTA update).
Similar to Carroll Shelby putting V8s into AC (thus the AC Cobra 289) and likely voids powertrain warranty, but it might be an interesting upgrade path for owners who miss 85 Nm and eventually decide to self-insure the motor and battery in exchange for amazing power-to-weight (42 lb bike w/75 Nm seems like a future sweet spot w/360 WHr or 45 lb with 612 WHr incl range extender - still a compelling proposition).
@@stantaur no flash anything needed, all you need is an app, easy, or so i heard, i would NEVER have deristricted the max speed, (50km?) and max torque (85?) on my bike the first day,, ever ! but some people did, and they are very happy, and still managed to go to Naples on that bike from Paris, just saying,
What is very interesting to me (and I feel I am the only one?) Is how those bikes ride without the motor on or even with the battery removed. I am looking into an ebike to try to compensate for my lost fitness. A scenario on which I am riding the bike switched off and I only turn it on when my breath is flat out, or another scenario where I ride my really short local trail with little elevation without the battery (uphill and downhill) or even you use this bike even if you get a shuttle service somehow is of huge importance to me eye's, so I would really like to know how these bikes feel without the battery.
Fazua sounds like Bafang M820, I wonder how the power support would compare...
You didn’t mention the best feature of the TQ - the built in power meter which shows both the watts you are providing and the watts the motor is providing.
The range difference + power is worth going Fazua to me.
Whilst the displays do appear to give "an exact percentage of battery use", you'll find that they are only in 10 to 20 percent increments, so the reality is that, no matter what display you have, it's only a guess as to how much battery you have left. This ain't precision science, only approximately.
Puzzled a bit. Thought tq is engaged wit Hai bike. They are almost in the same village in germany.😮
Rob, how do these motors feel compared to the specialized SL Mahle motors? I know you’ve done a few miles on the SLs
I’d also be interested in this as I’m looking to possibly get a kenevo sl in the next few months
Fazua more punch / power. TQ quite close in power to SL. Both incredibly quiet when climbing under power compared to SL. Next year I’ll have a full on group test.
The missing info for me is range. I ride long rides in relatively low power settings, so this category of bike is ideal. The range I get out of the Levo SL is amazing. I worry that the trend for higher power light motors will mean we'll lose the efficiency of a bike tuned to grind out miles at low watts/nM.
You know your stuff mate
Hey Rob, any plans to mullet the Fuel? I’m debating trying it out on mine, but figured if you had plans I’m sure you’d make a video on it!
What about the rattling when going down a hill? It wasn't in the test.
No perceived rattle on either motors.
Can we please have a TQ HPR85 at the size of the 50! I'd be totally fine with carrying one or two spare 360 batteries.
Would LOVE to see an upsized TQ motor! TQ90 💪
Work on how to increase the percentage of its self charging capacity.
How is the noise on downhills? Orbea Rise is pretty rattly, so are the older bikes, how are theses new engines? (sorry if I missed that)
Both are near silent
@@RobRidesEMTB is the ep801 RS rise any quieter than the old? Does anyone know KG/lb difference in alloy vs carbon Rise?
So batteries are really small if you have 700m elevation for TQ and 1300m for fazua. My first gen Santa Cruz Heckler has shimano 8000 motor and 504ah battery and riding mostly on ECO mid 70%, trail mid 20% and turbo mid 10% i can reach 1200-1300m elevation. This is ok for most rides but for full day ride i reallywould need 720-900ah battery, so if i can charge it i take charger with me if not, second 504ah battery. Those bikes a nice, but not practical
Why you were climbing with your saddle so low? That is going to severely limit your own output which will affect the motor output and the results.
please compare the Haibike to the Orbea Rise
U shud also include the Forestal Bafang LightWeight pedal assist motor into this!
no
Trek should Approach LG for their old Flip Wine phones to see if they have any old new stock of the OLED screens that are about same size as a Bosch
They both seem a bit too niche. Time will tell especially, when it comes to reliability.
Hope you are planning on riding either of these for 10,000 km or so to give us a real life long term test. Cheers!
The too bright LED-Problem will be fixed with an Update. The top tube integrated LED bar is equipped with a light sensor which accidentally was deactivated by a Software bug. It already works right now but only checks the brightness when switching the system on. So in case you ride from brightness to darkness you face exactly the problem Rob was realizing - you are getting blinded. Opposite problem you are getting faced when riding from darkness to brightness - you barely can see the LEDs. System off/on would fix the problem in such a situation but better let's wait for the update and everything will be smoothly automatically handled by software in future 🤘😎
Great intel! Thanks for sharing.
Concerning the display on the Trek, I wouldn't want an OLED display on the bike, as they are prone to burn in and are not very light strong. You get strong contrasts and deep blacks, but they are not great for outside use. I'd rather have a backlit e-ink display. No need of colours, but easy to read in direct sunlight and at a glance without overload of information. Less is more.
Rob, could you discover for us the routing of the dropper cable, and how easy or difficult it might be to make seat height adjustments while also keeping the cable housing from binding or the cable itself from being pulled from the bottom of the post? Does either bike use a “shadow loop” down inside the frame like the specialized bikes, to provide a degree of excess cable slack when needed? Also, battery is a 3 syllable word, not two.
Specialized had the integration game on lock years ago. Everyone else is just playing catch up.
You don't want an OLED display, that would be awful. OLED displays are dim and when driven at even a moderately high level of brightness will quickly develop screen burn in issues with static screen elements like all of an ebike screen.
What you want is a LCD display, which can be bright, high resolution, and doesn't suffer from screen burn in.
It would put that price even higher if they were ti design an OLED fornit that was thick enough to with stand the constant vibrations and heavy landings! A very old Flip phone from early 2000s LG had a front OLED screen it was one the first OLED alot ar E waste being recycled on RUclips EWaste channel but thats the kind of solid old style that would work for the absolute brutality riding!
TQ motor on a XC or "DC" bike has my interest....BMC? wilier urta hybrid??? hmm.....35 lbs....hmmm...trek using top fuel and TQ???