I love how about once a year the battlegrounds Devs are like "surely Mecherel will be balanced now given all the murloc and mech changes we've made, let's add it back" and they're always wrong
Don't get me wrong it's not nearly as broken as it was back when gentle megasaur was in the game (which should come back for the funny) but it's still busted
Yeah I think they recognize how broken it is but also recognize how fun it feels to get the ultimate combo with it and ultimately if people have fun then its good to have it in. I haven't been upset once about dying to a Mecherel build since they have just enough difficulty to get going. I just wish Mecherel was a little worse as a fill in card in most builds but I have no idea how they would balance for that while still keeping the build playable.
@@ChargedJosh I think the big thing is now we have leeroy which imo is one of the best designed cards in battlegrounds because it works so well against those "immovable object" style comps
If the card was "if another card and not fucking Mecharel loses Divine Shield, this card gets divine shield" becase ping pong is like a casino gameplay
Jeef at some points states that 3 mackerals goes infinite theoretically with positive probability, but no finite number of mackerels does go infinite theoretically (except I guess 2 Mackrels, of which 1 is taunted with 0 power, but I think you can't do that anymore). The issue is that there will always be 1 that is without divine shield, except in the beginning (where you have other creatures). If that one is hit/attacks, it can die. You can make situations in a battlegrounds-like setup where you would have an infinite theoretical behaviour with positive probability: If you had 3 mackerels with shield, and shields stack (like, you could have 2 or more shields and whenever you got hit you lost 1), then you had a positive probability of going infinite - each step would lose 1 on one mackeral (or it would die if it was without) and gain 1 on each other mackeral. I do not wish to go through the math (it is 3 dimensional), but it is a variant of gambler's ruin with biased coins.
@@zacnewford Yes, which is why I state "battlegrounds-like setup". The point of the first paragraph was that this infinite behaviour can't occur in battlegrounds. The point of the second was to show an example of something like the battlegrounds where it could occur.
What he meant by that was that you could beat any number of stats theoretically with three mackerels if you got lucky enough, you wouldn't be able to do this with two as there is a guarantee that one will attack without divine shield. With three there is a chance for the opponent to attack a mackerel with divine shield that isn't about to attack.
@@nukenuke4286 Ahh, I see, yes, that makes sense. It is not infinite in a theoretical sense (because the probability of it happening forever is 0), but it is true that there is a positive probability to beat any finite board with 3 but not with 2.
Came here after losing to two taunted holy mecharel full DS board while using sindorei and two 700/700+ cleaves because I couldn't find a leroy. Such a toxic card :(
Should golden the mackarel and get 5 on the board. At that point you need astronomical chance to even do damage to any of them. Like 1/1 mackarels would clear boards kinda chances.
Not really. To kill 5 (assuming all are 1/1 and with shield initially and you have no other minions), you need just 6+5+4+3+2=21 damage events (event=attack from either side) in expectation. You start with 5 all shielded: After the first event, one of them has no shield. At that point, you have 1/5 to lose the one without shield in each damage event (and as long as you do not, you end up with 4 with shield and 1 without). In expectation, that takes 5 damage events. Thus, in expectation, after 1+5=6 events you lose the first one. At that point, you have 4 shielded, and after the next damage event you have 3 shielded and 1 not shielded - the non-shielded takes 4 damage events to die in expectation and so on. This means that a single 1/21 has fair odds of beating the 5 1/1 Mackerals (it is fairly annoying to calculate the exact odds however - it is a bit below 50% I think - and I do not wish to do it right now). Edit: this is actually a bit wrong: When you have 2 shielded left and you are about to attack, it takes just 2 and a half events for one to die: You attack, and then, either they kill the one that just attacked (50% chance for 2 damage events) when they attack back or they clear the shield of the next attacker which when dies when it attacks (50% chance for 3 damage events). Conversely, if they attack, it takes 2 and 3/4 attacks for one to die (specifically, it takes them 2 damage events to kill 1 with pr. 1/2, 3 damage events w. pr. 1/4 and 4 damage events with pr. 1/4). Calculating who is likely to attack when there are just 2 Mackarls left is messy so I will not do the calculations, but clearly the expected number is then between 20.5 and 20.75. This also affects the other numbers (i.e. when you have more than 2 left) a bit, so those numbers should also be smaller, but it is quite minor: Every time they attack, they can attack either the mackeral that attacked, the next to attack or some other mackeral. The issue is that the pr. to attack the one that will attack next is 1/x where x is the number of mackerals left, while the first part suggests that this should be 1/x(1-1/x), which is slightly smaller.
I love how about once a year the battlegrounds Devs are like "surely Mecherel will be balanced now given all the murloc and mech changes we've made, let's add it back" and they're always wrong
Don't get me wrong it's not nearly as broken as it was back when gentle megasaur was in the game (which should come back for the funny) but it's still busted
CHAMELEON QUILLBOARS BEATS MECHERAL
CHAMELEON QUILLBOARS BEATS GENTLE MEGASUAR
CHAMELEON QUILLBOARS BEATS LEAPPERS
LEEROY LEEROY GLOWSACLE TOKEN
DIVINE SHIELD CLEAVE DIVINE SHIELD CLEAVE DIVINE SHIELD CLEAVE
Yeah I think they recognize how broken it is but also recognize how fun it feels to get the ultimate combo with it and ultimately if people have fun then its good to have it in. I haven't been upset once about dying to a Mecherel build since they have just enough difficulty to get going. I just wish Mecherel was a little worse as a fill in card in most builds but I have no idea how they would balance for that while still keeping the build playable.
@@ChargedJosh I think the big thing is now we have leeroy which imo is one of the best designed cards in battlegrounds because it works so well against those "immovable object" style comps
If the card was "if another card and not fucking Mecharel loses Divine Shield, this card gets divine shield"
becase ping pong is like a casino gameplay
That mech 6 drop magnetic saved the day soooo many stats when you pack with the hero power
I was wondering why pack tactics was summoning such a huge mob. That makes sense!
The odds! That one dude lost so many 50/50 hits 😂
Appreciate how the videos are edited down, beast opponents sped up etc. thanks for the games
Is there a reason the 3/3 copy of mecherel a 200/200?
Buffs from the tier 6 magnetic I believe, but I don't know 🤷♂️
Dr. Booms Monster scales based the number of magnetics used in game. This buff applies to the 3/3 clone
I learned a new mechanic today 😅
Whats the song name from 12:10 ?
Jeef at some points states that 3 mackerals goes infinite theoretically with positive probability, but no finite number of mackerels does go infinite theoretically (except I guess 2 Mackrels, of which 1 is taunted with 0 power, but I think you can't do that anymore). The issue is that there will always be 1 that is without divine shield, except in the beginning (where you have other creatures). If that one is hit/attacks, it can die.
You can make situations in a battlegrounds-like setup where you would have an infinite theoretical behaviour with positive probability: If you had 3 mackerels with shield, and shields stack (like, you could have 2 or more shields and whenever you got hit you lost 1), then you had a positive probability of going infinite - each step would lose 1 on one mackeral (or it would die if it was without) and gain 1 on each other mackeral. I do not wish to go through the math (it is 3 dimensional), but it is a variant of gambler's ruin with biased coins.
shields don’t stack
@@zacnewford Yes, which is why I state "battlegrounds-like setup". The point of the first paragraph was that this infinite behaviour can't occur in battlegrounds. The point of the second was to show an example of something like the battlegrounds where it could occur.
What he meant by that was that you could beat any number of stats theoretically with three mackerels if you got lucky enough, you wouldn't be able to do this with two as there is a guarantee that one will attack without divine shield. With three there is a chance for the opponent to attack a mackerel with divine shield that isn't about to attack.
@@nukenuke4286 Ahh, I see, yes, that makes sense. It is not infinite in a theoretical sense (because the probability of it happening forever is 0), but it is true that there is a positive probability to beat any finite board with 3 but not with 2.
@@rij9889theoretically it can go forever. and if there was multiple divine shields it would not be like battle grounds
Thx god , this abomination is on tier 6 now
"-it's in my Darwin Blood"
-Darwin
Why is the pack tactics 3/3 a big boy
Tier 6 magnetic is an aura
Jeef is a genius
Mecherel is love mecherel is life ❤
3rd place got absolutely violated by RNG
Came here after losing to two taunted holy mecharel full DS board while using sindorei and two 700/700+ cleaves because I couldn't find a leroy. Such a toxic card :(
That was some cheesy shit lol. I love it
why did he not buy Chameleon??
Should golden the mackarel and get 5 on the board. At that point you need astronomical chance to even do damage to any of them. Like 1/1 mackarels would clear boards kinda chances.
Not really. To kill 5 (assuming all are 1/1 and with shield initially and you have no other minions), you need just 6+5+4+3+2=21 damage events (event=attack from either side) in expectation. You start with 5 all shielded: After the first event, one of them has no shield. At that point, you have 1/5 to lose the one without shield in each damage event (and as long as you do not, you end up with 4 with shield and 1 without). In expectation, that takes 5 damage events. Thus, in expectation, after 1+5=6 events you lose the first one. At that point, you have 4 shielded, and after the next damage event you have 3 shielded and 1 not shielded - the non-shielded takes 4 damage events to die in expectation and so on. This means that a single 1/21 has fair odds of beating the 5 1/1 Mackerals (it is fairly annoying to calculate the exact odds however - it is a bit below 50% I think - and I do not wish to do it right now).
Edit: this is actually a bit wrong: When you have 2 shielded left and you are about to attack, it takes just 2 and a half events for one to die: You attack, and then, either they kill the one that just attacked (50% chance for 2 damage events) when they attack back or they clear the shield of the next attacker which when dies when it attacks (50% chance for 3 damage events). Conversely, if they attack, it takes 2 and 3/4 attacks for one to die (specifically, it takes them 2 damage events to kill 1 with pr. 1/2, 3 damage events w. pr. 1/4 and 4 damage events with pr. 1/4). Calculating who is likely to attack when there are just 2 Mackarls left is messy so I will not do the calculations, but clearly the expected number is then between 20.5 and 20.75.
This also affects the other numbers (i.e. when you have more than 2 left) a bit, so those numbers should also be smaller, but it is quite minor: Every time they attack, they can attack either the mackeral that attacked, the next to attack or some other mackeral. The issue is that the pr. to attack the one that will attack next is 1/x where x is the number of mackerals left, while the first part suggests that this should be 1/x(1-1/x), which is slightly smaller.
Bro rly won high elo off of greese bot and two year worth luck
After another friendly minion loses Divine Shield, gain Divine Shield.
(Three times per combat)
Either that or Tier6
Both bc t6 sucks so much compared to 5 rn
Well thankfully it nerf to tier 6 :v
Dr.booms monster maintaining stats on pact tactics is not an interaction I thought I’d see. That’s so cool.
Nobody should feel proud of themselves winning this game....
There's a part in every jeef video that is unwatchable bevause of the stupid music. Please jeef no more musac in vids