Hey y'all! I have a correction! @danielbeckman6742 let me know that the dialogue in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker came from a codec call with the Boss and I just missed it. I'm so sorry about that!! I'm grateful for the catch tho. This is why I love putting out videos! I learn things I otherwise would have missed!
How Big Boss handle the death of The Boss after taking her life out him through self-destruction! It was hard to Big Boss to deal with The Boss's defection which was a sham but realized later he won't be used the same way. MGS4 saw him redeem himself and understood the Boss's will and sought forgiveness from his son Solid Snake; therefore, not having any animosity between them.
The Boss's loyalty to the mission was peace as a human being. Big Boss was never shot into space and saw the beauty of earth and felt how petty the human conflicts were in comparison, and wasnt old enough to survive a world war and lived long to come to terms about comrads being enemies due to politics yet. He dedicated his life to learning how to be the best soldier so his loyalty to the mission was probably being true to his identity: a soldier. Even later when he realized the Boss's backstory by PW tapes, he says he's sorry he can't accept that side of her because probably he was mostly exposed to the soldier side of the Boss, even when shown the humanitarian side while with here, he might've perceived as a spy training and never fully let his guard down; hence she is his ultimate soldier model. It's like seeing your idol in your field preaching others to be the best but turns out a recording revealed "i am tired of this field and gonna walk away", imagine the feeling of betrayal. It's a modern tragedy of "Loyalty to the mission" line was highly regarded by her peers to dedicate their lives to fulfilling what they believed was her will yet she could never fully explain what her mission was (for peace) due to the times and circumstances
BB def didn't see the beauty of the Earth from space and how inconsequential human conflicts are! Sometimes I wonder how things would have changed had he had the opportunity to go into space like the Boss. Would he have been more in alignment with her dream of seeing the world united, or would his goals just have been further twisted?
It might also be BB doesn't want to commit matricide. And the fact the boss couldn't understand that is sad but expected she didn't mention anything to Ocealot about his father and the hero he was. When you can clearly see in mgs3 Ocealot looking for a father figure
I don't think the Boss didn't understand what a hard mission BB was facing. She'd gone through the exact same thing with the Sorrow so she could relate to his position through personal experience. That's what makes the whole thing so sad. She gets it, but is still going through with her mission. It's also why she's giving BB a choice and tells him to go home
@@luffiewebster yes it's true even through the torture scene the way her face looked and she told him at the end of the torture scene run. She felt bad what she was putting snake through but she was doing her mission
@@luffiewebster I don't know if she really had any true feelings for BB. If you can't love yourself how can you love others. Theres a fine line between being a hero and being a memory. You have to be strong enough to be gentle. She took the easy way out, and help create two of the main baddies with Ocealot and BB. Please forgive my poor grammar
He was angry at the government for making his mentor do a mission that causes her to betray her country, I don't blame him for leaving, so is Big Boss truly the bad guy in this
That's the thing, really. A 'bad guy' is never just that. BB was a human being, with his own internal viewpoint. His own line of reasoning led him down the path he took, and that path just so happened to be a warped one, that warped him in turn.
I have always had a big emotional attachment to Big Boss to which many of his receuited soldiers woukd have felt and revered him. I even felt a personal betrayal by him in MGS5 to an extent. Why i enjoyed Venom Snake, flawed loyalty to an even more flawed Legend.
What a great video. I came into this video under the belief that not only had Big Boss not accepted the Boss’ death, but he’d skipped a few of the other steps in the process as well. There is no trace of the Boss’ noble will in BB’s war with Zero. Mgs4 makes it seem like BB wakes from his coma a changed man for the sake of redemption, but we don’t see him earn that. He just wakes up changed. That’s never sat well with me and as a writer, I’ve always tried to avoid things like that. However, the scene in mgs4 does show BB reaching those other stages that he’d avoided earlier in his life. One thing I think you got wrong is in Peace Walker when BB is misremembering The Boss’ words. All of the Boss’ lines are taken from Snake Eater verbatim. They’re just taken from codec conversations, not what was actually spoken during face-to-face encounters. No new Boss dialogue was written for PW.
Dang it!!!! I was so worried about this hahaha I really scoured all of the Boss' dialogue to make sure this wasn't said before, but I must have missed that codec call!!! Thanks for the correction!! I'm glad you enjoyed the vid regardless of the misinformation (now I'm the Patriots creating context around BB's story haha)! It was a really fun one to make and at the onset I also didn't think that he had accepted the Boss' death or even came close to it. I agree too that his being a changed man seems forced and unearned and I also try to avoid stuff like that in my writing... Tho the thought of BB being stuck in a coma for years trapped with his thoughts does make me think he could have come to accept her death since he had nothing he could distract himself with haha
Yes I think big boss went through depression after the bosses death. He thought of her as his own mother and a role model and when she betrayed her country and him he was so lost and confused after that and trying to make sense of it all. That's why I feel after Peace Walker when he threw away the bandana he made the conclusion the boss betrayed him and he was going to do his own thing to help forget about her. But at the end he was always grieving until the day he died.
100% BB grieved the Boss up until the day he died! It's so sad and I wish he could have found a sense of peace to live with... Things would have turned out much more different if he had, I'm sure
So, in regards to “when” BB accepted the Boss’ death I have a theory that kinda comes with that… But in order for this to work: you need to know (or follow me down this Rabbit Hole) that there ends up being THREE B.B’s (one real, two body doubles) So you end up with Ahab, Ishmael and Saladin. There’s wierd sounds in the background of the “Truth Tapes” or MGSV that hint that the real BB isn’t in Cyprus. The mechanical locking door and kids playing outside when Zero visits Jack and the doctor who speaks with Zero about the comatose Big Boss is the same one when they get pulled into an operating room just after the chopper crash in the Caribbean. B.B was there, but he never left Cyprus. He was left in a vegetative state “it’s too risky to move him” and the “other” probably was moved in order to draw attention away from the Carribean in order to trick Cypher and other powers that be to search elsewhere. The real BB never probably left, they just made Ahab and Ishmael so that people wouldn’t assume there was anything wrong and it was still the same BB and Decoy. In every metal gear game: there’s always three. Three Emmerich, Hal, Emma, and Huey Three Cyborg Ninjas- Frank, Olga and later Raiden. Three Snakes: Liquid, Solid and secretly Solidus… (there’s always the extra one we don’t find out until in the post credits sequence or some other twist reveal) if there’s two of anything- Kojima has always hidden a third. He never hides just 2, I call it Kojima’s Rule of 3.
So… if you’re with me so far (and I do have more loose ends that were left in MSSV and other things that don’t make sense left unchecked that make better sense if you factor in a third BB angle) then I’m going to roll out my theory that BB actually put down the gun LONG before MGS4… maybe coming to terms with it while he was in the Coma, but he was gonna still let Ahab and Ishmael be his right and left hands on the world stage- while he was the heart of the operation: Adopting child soldiers and war orphans under the name “Saladin” and putting his Philanthropic efforts into the part of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar- that would still for all intents and purposes look like a massive military operation… But Ishmael and Ahab would play their roles in both MSX games where they were the final bosses- so HE could live free, in retirement. Disappearing off the world stage until he knew the Patriots were gone. If he died before seeing that day come to pass, he would never have true “peace” he had to return “Zero back to Nothing” in order to see the battle reach an end. But in order to put a plan like this into motion and stuff he had to have put his past behind him years ago, hanging onto the past means he can’t do what needs to be done… right? Knowing he needs David to make the Patriots believe he and Ishmael are dead only works if you know how this ends… if you have a plan. The boss sacrifices herself, for peace. He has to know that in order to see that every piece of himself, Eli, David, George, Ahab, and Ishmael- have to lay down their life to the “cause” If that’s the plan, then you have to already have accepted the boss’ sacrifice and decision to bear that responsibility as your own. Being in denial and trying to fight your way out of it is the person who still holds the gun. He knows he’s gonna put the patriot down when he faces David, he knows that’s what he has to do… LONG before he heads to the graveyard. He goes there knowing all about Fox Die. Knowing FULL and WELL what it’s programmed for. He’s already made peace with his end… probably years ago, before he accepted Frank and Naomi into his unit… before Sniper Wolf. You don’t “just” wake up from a coma after 50 years and know all about Fox Die and the genome soldiers and everything that was conducted in your name. He may well have been partially reconstructed from Solidus and Liquid’s parts after being in a coma after the Caribbean crash. But Kojima said he was only in one Coma… meaning that it couldn’t be Ishmael OR Ahab. That would assume that one of them went back into a coma after Zanzibar or Outer Heaven which Kojima’s statement about Big Boss only ever being in one Coma doesn’t allow for- unless he was in the Caribbean for almost the entire time… even while rehabilitating, he would have time to make peace. Big Boss CQC’s David in the graveyard, but we’re lead to believe he’s only been awake from his coma for a couple hours or something… you saw how Ahab was after just waking up. A floppy little fish on the hospital floor slapping around, scrambling to keep up with Ishmael. On newly transplanted arms and legs from Liquid? Bet. He’d be lucky to move like a mannequin, let alone preforming CQC Judo. He was awake a good while. Had a lot of time to think about the plan and probably even be Snake’s XO in Op. Intrude N313 via codec. When they switched Codec Frequencies they were probably handing over the comms to the body double of the base. But the Real BB was planning the long game to draw out the patriots by making Snake take over the mantle of “ultimate soldier” someone who would succeed where Grey Fox, the best soldier Foxhound had- failed. It was orchestrated to make Snake look good so that the Patriots would direct their focus on making Snake the Pariah for their endless war after BB is supposedly defeated, who’s gonna carry that torch? Not an ACTUAL super soldier, a pawn with inferior genes. Not someone who’d go mad with power having all the perfect clone genes or the strongest recessive traits that would never emerge in natural selection. Not someone with an enormous inferiority complex determined to misconstrue your dreams of a world without borders. You hand it to the Labrador retriever. And orchestrate the entire base of operations to leave every item and keycard in the middle of the room to make his job as easy as possible while they put up a good enough fight that it looks convincing enough. “You didn’t think you got this far all by yourself?” They practically let Snake win against seemingly insurmountable odds. That’s how the inferior clone becomes the patriots icon. All according to plan. And Ocelot helping every step of the way, being a triple agent… The rule of threes. He’s always a triple agent playing a third secret angle. Right up until the end of MGS4 he held up the ruse that he was on the patriots side, pretending to be possessed by Liquid so that Snake could do what he can’t and plant a virus that would terminate SOP and destroy the Patriots Ai. And we know Ocelot knows BB is already awake because he says “I know he’s somewhere out there, laughing” he’s been watching the whole charade go down. This was BB’s plan, Ocelot has been working with him the whole time. How do you continue the “plan” when he’s in a coma for the entire portion of it- and Ocelot turns up out of the blue in Cyprus without any prior acknowledgment of being “on your side” they wouldn’t just be shooting for the same goals unless BB met Ocelot before the events of Ground Zeroes. There’s quotes from a prisoner in Camp Omega that suggest BB and Ocelot were there, interrogating him. They were in cahoots before Ground Zeroes (possibly after Peace Walker, probably due to Kaz’s involvement with setting up the meeting with Paz and Galvez and the betrayal that would feel like) the plan comes into motion when BB has Ocelot induct Ahab into Diamond dogs, but how would Ishmael have done that if he’s in the hospital the whole time? For the body double thing to work, Ishmael and Ahab have to remain side by side so nobody knows who’s who. If one disappears out to go have tea with Ocelot that would be sus. If Ocelot comes to the hospital to talk to him in private, that would draw attention. This had to be established in advance so Ocelot knows where to come find Ahab when the time is right. He just happens to be riding a horse nearby within the exact time period the ambulance crashed 2 weeks after these two no-face John Doe’s wake up? He knew. Ocelot has his hands in everything. He knows. All according to plan. The BIG plan. Ocelot knew. Boss knew. Ishmael was another puppet… he had to be. You wouldn’t put your king next to a pawn surrounded by rooms and hope your one friendly bishop turns up just in time to save you from a checkmate. Unless, of course- the people shooting up the hospital were under orders from BB and Ocelot. Just like the ones at Camp Omega? Working with Skullface… would explain why there’s Diamond Dogs crates at OKB Zero.
I was really debating between calling him Naked Snake when talking about his time in MGS3, but decided to go with BB since I was talking about him overall. I'm sorry that was confusing!
Ok I just came up with this theory and I think I might be either onto something or insane beyond comprehension. So... what if Venom let Solid Snake win on purpose? At the end of MGSV Miller says that he's going to send BB to hell in part by making Venom stronger. That makes little sense given that Venom is presumably under the command of BB above Miller after he realizes his true identity. Given that DD was likely converted into Outer Heaven since Seychelles is relatively close to where Outer Heaven was built (and where else would the Diamond Dogs go if Venom, their leader, left them) it's safe to assume Outer Heaven's forces consist mostly of former DD members. If Miller was trying to continue strengthening Venom it's safe to assume they would have stayed in contact (likely in secret) after Miller betrayed BB (probably around the time he begins his plan to make Venom stronger). We see in MGSV's ending that the backside of BB's tape says "Operation Intrude N313" indicating that Solid Snake's role in FOXHOUND and the Outer Heaven incident as a whole were (for the most part) pre-planned (as why else would BB return to the US to command FOXHOUND, the country that betrayed him). When Ocelot says that BB is leaving to build the "real" Outer Heaven he more than likely means Zanzibar, given that forming an entire country would likely take longer than simply a large fortress. Now, let's combine all of these factors. Since BB hated his clones, it's safe to assume Venom was intended to kill Snavid, and thus Venom's death likely caught BB off guard. Venom has experience dealing with the Skulls, Sahelanthropus, and is miles more experienced in CQC than Solid Snake was at the time he infiltrated Outer Heaven. Venom can dodge shots from a rail gun and other highly advanced weapons but can't dodge RC missiles fired by essentially a less experienced version of himself? Not likely. Also of note is that the US bought out the contracts of all surviving Outer Heaven mercs and turned them into the next-gen special forces under the command of Liquid in MGS1. However, why would soldiers under the command of Venom choose to follow Liquid, the man who betrayed them back in 1984? The answer I propose is that Venom told them to. Outer Heaven was under his command, and composed (in theory) by members of Diamond Dogs, who are fiercely loyal to Venom (and perhaps Venom alone, as in MGSV after the ending when some DD members salute you they'll say that they don't care who you really are or if you're the real boss, that they'd serve under you anyway). If Venom laid out his plan to them they'd definitely go for it. I'd also wager that Liquid was in on their plan too, as why else would he work with Ocelot, who was also there during his interaction with Venom and the Diamond Dogs? Miller is shown in PW to be in contact with Cipher, so I'd bet that he continued playing both sides until he died. It could even be theorized that Miller didn't actually die in MGS1 (his body being a decoy or smth idk) and he and Venom (who, if you take the rumor about cybernetic resurrection given by Kasler in MG2SS to be true) are out in hiding somewhere watching the events of the world play out. Was Liquid Ocelot planned too? As a way to control Ocelot who would be seen as the biggest threat? Who knows? I think I just dug myself a mental rabbithole of no escape, I pity all who have read far enough to see this...
I love how well thought out this is!! Unfortunately, I don't think Kaz was trying to strengthen Venom as he says he's going to train up BB's sons (aka Snavid) to take BB on... And honestly with what we know about Venom I'm also surprised Snavid was able to defeat him in MG1 haha Like Venom really did have the experience to best Snavid... And I'd never really thought about DD's serving under Liquid after meeting him as a buttcrack kid on mother base haha I feel like maybe they just didn't remember him and only knew him as Liquid. Kaz and Ocelot were keeping Eli's maybe relation to Big Boss hush hush and then tested his DNA to Venom's and found it wasn't a match, so I don't think any of them really remember Eli as BB's son. So Liquid was probably a whole new person to them...
@@luffiewebster Yeah that makes sense. I just kinda always wondered what Kaz meant when he said "The boss can go to hell. I'll make the phantom and his sons stronger to send him there." and he said he would strengthen the phantom. Thats where my weird theory stemmed from. He also says "sons" plural indicating he was also intending to assist Liquid (and maybe Solidus as he was active during that time in Africa so maybe Miller knew about him too). We know he trained Snavid but Venom, Liquid, and Solidus' lives during that time period have almost nothing known about them. Not to mention that quote by Miller is right at the end of Phantom Pain, in the spot where we usually get a teaser for a sequel, so maybe if the series continued (by that I mean not jumping into time travel nonsense with Metal Gear Survive) that's the direction it would have gone. Who knows?
Let me add an update to the theory as I think I just figured it out. In MGSV it's known that nuclear disarmament can be achieved, and it triggers a cutscene confirming that the world is rid of nukes. Of course, the world being rid of nukes conflicts majorly with the rest of the series given that MG1, MG2, MGS and so forth all explicitly state that nukes are still a thing as that's part of the big threats in those games. So in my opinion, we actually did achieve what Miller meant. By literally changing history by achieving disarmament, we do send Big Boss to hell in a way as his plans for Outer Heaven and ZL could never happen. Plus, I think it'd be really fitting that the MG series ends with a closing of the story's loop, but also the beginning of a new loop influenced by us, the players, in which the world-ending threat is removed, allowing peace to finally be achieved.
Hey y'all! I have a correction! @danielbeckman6742 let me know that the dialogue in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker came from a codec call with the Boss and I just missed it. I'm so sorry about that!! I'm grateful for the catch tho. This is why I love putting out videos! I learn things I otherwise would have missed!
I was gonna say that.
How Big Boss handle the death of The Boss after taking her life out him through self-destruction! It was hard to Big Boss to deal with The Boss's defection which was a sham but realized later he won't be used the same way. MGS4 saw him redeem himself and understood the Boss's will and sought forgiveness from his son Solid Snake; therefore, not having any animosity between them.
The Boss's loyalty to the mission was peace as a human being.
Big Boss was never shot into space and saw the beauty of earth and felt how petty the human conflicts were in comparison, and wasnt old enough to survive a world war and lived long to come to terms about comrads being enemies due to politics yet. He dedicated his life to learning how to be the best soldier so his loyalty to the mission was probably being true to his identity: a soldier. Even later when he realized the Boss's backstory by PW tapes, he says he's sorry he can't accept that side of her because probably he was mostly exposed to the soldier side of the Boss, even when shown the humanitarian side while with here, he might've perceived as a spy training and never fully let his guard down; hence she is his ultimate soldier model. It's like seeing your idol in your field preaching others to be the best but turns out a recording revealed "i am tired of this field and gonna walk away", imagine the feeling of betrayal.
It's a modern tragedy of "Loyalty to the mission" line was highly regarded by her peers to dedicate their lives to fulfilling what they believed was her will yet she could never fully explain what her mission was (for peace) due to the times and circumstances
BB def didn't see the beauty of the Earth from space and how inconsequential human conflicts are! Sometimes I wonder how things would have changed had he had the opportunity to go into space like the Boss. Would he have been more in alignment with her dream of seeing the world united, or would his goals just have been further twisted?
Third video in a row lol, this is such high quality metal gear content
It might also be BB doesn't want to commit matricide. And the fact the boss couldn't understand that is sad but expected she didn't mention anything to Ocealot about his father and the hero he was. When you can clearly see in mgs3 Ocealot looking for a father figure
Yes that's very true ocolot was looking for a father figure. That's why I feel he idolized big boss. He was looking for a role model
I don't think the Boss didn't understand what a hard mission BB was facing. She'd gone through the exact same thing with the Sorrow so she could relate to his position through personal experience. That's what makes the whole thing so sad. She gets it, but is still going through with her mission. It's also why she's giving BB a choice and tells him to go home
@@luffiewebster yes it's true even through the torture scene the way her face looked and she told him at the end of the torture scene run. She felt bad what she was putting snake through but she was doing her mission
@@luffiewebster I don't know if she really had any true feelings for BB. If you can't love yourself how can you love others. Theres a fine line between being a hero and being a memory. You have to be strong enough to be gentle. She took the easy way out, and help create two of the main baddies with Ocealot and BB. Please forgive my poor grammar
He was angry at the government for making his mentor do a mission that causes her to betray her country, I don't blame him for leaving, so is Big Boss truly the bad guy in this
I don't blame BB for leaving either, but I do blame him for making Metal Gears and hoarding nukes haha
@@luffiewebster Real. Bro got a little crazy
That's the thing, really. A 'bad guy' is never just that. BB was a human being, with his own internal viewpoint. His own line of reasoning led him down the path he took, and that path just so happened to be a warped one, that warped him in turn.
I have always had a big emotional attachment to Big Boss to which many of his receuited soldiers woukd have felt and revered him. I even felt a personal betrayal by him in MGS5 to an extent. Why i enjoyed Venom Snake, flawed loyalty to an even more flawed Legend.
I felt a personal betrayal by BB too in MGSV haha I'm still so mad at him for doing that 😂
Venom tries his very best and is also very traumatized. We love him, though
What a great video. I came into this video under the belief that not only had Big Boss not accepted the Boss’ death, but he’d skipped a few of the other steps in the process as well. There is no trace of the Boss’ noble will in BB’s war with Zero. Mgs4 makes it seem like BB wakes from his coma a changed man for the sake of redemption, but we don’t see him earn that. He just wakes up changed. That’s never sat well with me and as a writer, I’ve always tried to avoid things like that. However, the scene in mgs4 does show BB reaching those other stages that he’d avoided earlier in his life.
One thing I think you got wrong is in Peace Walker when BB is misremembering The Boss’ words. All of the Boss’ lines are taken from Snake Eater verbatim. They’re just taken from codec conversations, not what was actually spoken during face-to-face encounters. No new Boss dialogue was written for PW.
Dang it!!!! I was so worried about this hahaha I really scoured all of the Boss' dialogue to make sure this wasn't said before, but I must have missed that codec call!!! Thanks for the correction!!
I'm glad you enjoyed the vid regardless of the misinformation (now I'm the Patriots creating context around BB's story haha)! It was a really fun one to make and at the onset I also didn't think that he had accepted the Boss' death or even came close to it. I agree too that his being a changed man seems forced and unearned and I also try to avoid stuff like that in my writing... Tho the thought of BB being stuck in a coma for years trapped with his thoughts does make me think he could have come to accept her death since he had nothing he could distract himself with haha
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Yes I think big boss went through depression after the bosses death. He thought of her as his own mother and a role model and when she betrayed her country and him he was so lost and confused after that and trying to make sense of it all. That's why I feel after Peace Walker when he threw away the bandana he made the conclusion the boss betrayed him and he was going to do his own thing to help forget about her. But at the end he was always grieving until the day he died.
100% BB grieved the Boss up until the day he died! It's so sad and I wish he could have found a sense of peace to live with... Things would have turned out much more different if he had, I'm sure
@@luffiewebster for sure big boss would have been a lot more humble and more of a clear mind in what he wanted to accomplish in his career
So, in regards to “when” BB accepted the Boss’ death I have a theory that kinda comes with that…
But in order for this to work: you need to know (or follow me down this Rabbit Hole) that there ends up being THREE B.B’s (one real, two body doubles) So you end up with Ahab, Ishmael and Saladin.
There’s wierd sounds in the background of the “Truth Tapes” or MGSV that hint that the real BB isn’t in Cyprus.
The mechanical locking door and kids playing outside when Zero visits Jack and the doctor who speaks with Zero about the comatose Big Boss is the same one when they get pulled into an operating room just after the chopper crash in the Caribbean.
B.B was there, but he never left Cyprus. He was left in a vegetative state “it’s too risky to move him” and the “other” probably was moved in order to draw attention away from the Carribean in order to trick Cypher and other powers that be to search elsewhere.
The real BB never probably left, they just made Ahab and Ishmael so that people wouldn’t assume there was anything wrong and it was still the same BB and Decoy.
In every metal gear game: there’s always three.
Three Emmerich, Hal, Emma, and Huey
Three Cyborg Ninjas- Frank, Olga and later Raiden.
Three Snakes: Liquid, Solid and secretly Solidus… (there’s always the extra one we don’t find out until in the post credits sequence or some other twist reveal) if there’s two of anything- Kojima has always hidden a third. He never hides just 2, I call it Kojima’s Rule of 3.
So… if you’re with me so far (and I do have more loose ends that were left in MSSV and other things that don’t make sense left unchecked that make better sense if you factor in a third BB angle) then I’m going to roll out my theory that BB actually put down the gun LONG before MGS4… maybe coming to terms with it while he was in the Coma, but he was gonna still let Ahab and Ishmael be his right and left hands on the world stage- while he was the heart of the operation:
Adopting child soldiers and war orphans under the name “Saladin” and putting his Philanthropic efforts into the part of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar- that would still for all intents and purposes look like a massive military operation…
But Ishmael and Ahab would play their roles in both MSX games where they were the final bosses- so HE could live free, in retirement. Disappearing off the world stage until he knew the Patriots were gone.
If he died before seeing that day come to pass, he would never have true “peace” he had to return “Zero back to Nothing” in order to see the battle reach an end.
But in order to put a plan like this into motion and stuff he had to have put his past behind him years ago, hanging onto the past means he can’t do what needs to be done… right?
Knowing he needs David to make the Patriots believe he and Ishmael are dead only works if you know how this ends… if you have a plan. The boss sacrifices herself, for peace. He has to know that in order to see that every piece of himself, Eli, David, George, Ahab, and Ishmael- have to lay down their life to the “cause”
If that’s the plan, then you have to already have accepted the boss’ sacrifice and decision to bear that responsibility as your own.
Being in denial and trying to fight your way out of it is the person who still holds the gun.
He knows he’s gonna put the patriot down when he faces David, he knows that’s what he has to do… LONG before he heads to the graveyard.
He goes there knowing all about Fox Die.
Knowing FULL and WELL what it’s programmed for.
He’s already made peace with his end… probably years ago, before he accepted Frank and Naomi into his unit… before Sniper Wolf. You don’t “just” wake up from a coma after 50 years and know all about Fox Die and the genome soldiers and everything that was conducted in your name.
He may well have been partially reconstructed from Solidus and Liquid’s parts after being in a coma after the Caribbean crash. But Kojima said he was only in one Coma… meaning that it couldn’t be Ishmael OR Ahab. That would assume that one of them went back into a coma after Zanzibar or Outer Heaven which Kojima’s statement about Big Boss only ever being in one Coma doesn’t allow for- unless he was in the Caribbean for almost the entire time… even while rehabilitating, he would have time to make peace.
Big Boss CQC’s David in the graveyard, but we’re lead to believe he’s only been awake from his coma for a couple hours or something… you saw how Ahab was after just waking up. A floppy little fish on the hospital floor slapping around, scrambling to keep up with Ishmael. On newly transplanted arms and legs from Liquid?
Bet.
He’d be lucky to move like a mannequin, let alone preforming CQC Judo.
He was awake a good while.
Had a lot of time to think about the plan and probably even be Snake’s XO in Op. Intrude N313 via codec. When they switched Codec Frequencies they were probably handing over the comms to the body double of the base. But the Real BB was planning the long game to draw out the patriots by making Snake take over the mantle of “ultimate soldier” someone who would succeed where Grey Fox, the best soldier Foxhound had- failed. It was orchestrated to make Snake look good so that the Patriots would direct their focus on making Snake the Pariah for their endless war after BB is supposedly defeated, who’s gonna carry that torch? Not an ACTUAL super soldier, a pawn with inferior genes. Not someone who’d go mad with power having all the perfect clone genes or the strongest recessive traits that would never emerge in natural selection. Not someone with an enormous inferiority complex determined to misconstrue your dreams of a world without borders. You hand it to the Labrador retriever.
And orchestrate the entire base of operations to leave every item and keycard in the middle of the room to make his job as easy as possible while they put up a good enough fight that it looks convincing enough.
“You didn’t think you got this far all by yourself?”
They practically let Snake win against seemingly insurmountable odds. That’s how the inferior clone becomes the patriots icon.
All according to plan.
And Ocelot helping every step of the way, being a triple agent…
The rule of threes. He’s always a triple agent playing a third secret angle. Right up until the end of MGS4 he held up the ruse that he was on the patriots side, pretending to be possessed by Liquid so that Snake could do what he can’t and plant a virus that would terminate SOP and destroy the Patriots Ai.
And we know Ocelot knows BB is already awake because he says “I know he’s somewhere out there, laughing” he’s been watching the whole charade go down. This was BB’s plan, Ocelot has been working with him the whole time. How do you continue the “plan” when he’s in a coma for the entire portion of it- and Ocelot turns up out of the blue in Cyprus without any prior acknowledgment of being “on your side” they wouldn’t just be shooting for the same goals unless BB met Ocelot before the events of Ground Zeroes.
There’s quotes from a prisoner in Camp Omega that suggest BB and Ocelot were there, interrogating him.
They were in cahoots before Ground Zeroes (possibly after Peace Walker, probably due to Kaz’s involvement with setting up the meeting with Paz and Galvez and the betrayal that would feel like) the plan comes into motion when BB has Ocelot induct Ahab into Diamond dogs, but how would Ishmael have done that if he’s in the hospital the whole time?
For the body double thing to work, Ishmael and Ahab have to remain side by side so nobody knows who’s who.
If one disappears out to go have tea with Ocelot that would be sus. If Ocelot comes to the hospital to talk to him in private, that would draw attention.
This had to be established in advance so Ocelot knows where to come find Ahab when the time is right. He just happens to be riding a horse nearby within the exact time period the ambulance crashed 2 weeks after these two no-face John Doe’s wake up?
He knew.
Ocelot has his hands in everything. He knows. All according to plan. The BIG plan.
Ocelot knew. Boss knew. Ishmael was another puppet… he had to be. You wouldn’t put your king next to a pawn surrounded by rooms and hope your one friendly bishop turns up just in time to save you from a checkmate.
Unless, of course- the people shooting up the hospital were under orders from BB and Ocelot. Just like the ones at Camp Omega?
Working with Skullface… would explain why there’s Diamond Dogs crates at OKB Zero.
He loved her so much 😢
Big Boss. He would have been a better man if he didnt get screwed over.
Nice vid
Thank you so much!! I'm so glad you enjoyed my vid!
So konsmi dropped a trailer for mgs delta today... I lost my mind temporarily...
Yeah!!!! Did you like it?
It’s strange and confusing referencing Naked Snake as Big Boss while The Boss is still around at the same timeline and place.
I was really debating between calling him Naked Snake when talking about his time in MGS3, but decided to go with BB since I was talking about him overall. I'm sorry that was confusing!
Ok I just came up with this theory and I think I might be either onto something or insane beyond comprehension. So... what if Venom let Solid Snake win on purpose? At the end of MGSV Miller says that he's going to send BB to hell in part by making Venom stronger. That makes little sense given that Venom is presumably under the command of BB above Miller after he realizes his true identity. Given that DD was likely converted into Outer Heaven since Seychelles is relatively close to where Outer Heaven was built (and where else would the Diamond Dogs go if Venom, their leader, left them) it's safe to assume Outer Heaven's forces consist mostly of former DD members. If Miller was trying to continue strengthening Venom it's safe to assume they would have stayed in contact (likely in secret) after Miller betrayed BB (probably around the time he begins his plan to make Venom stronger). We see in MGSV's ending that the backside of BB's tape says "Operation Intrude N313" indicating that Solid Snake's role in FOXHOUND and the Outer Heaven incident as a whole were (for the most part) pre-planned (as why else would BB return to the US to command FOXHOUND, the country that betrayed him). When Ocelot says that BB is leaving to build the "real" Outer Heaven he more than likely means Zanzibar, given that forming an entire country would likely take longer than simply a large fortress.
Now, let's combine all of these factors. Since BB hated his clones, it's safe to assume Venom was intended to kill Snavid, and thus Venom's death likely caught BB off guard. Venom has experience dealing with the Skulls, Sahelanthropus, and is miles more experienced in CQC than Solid Snake was at the time he infiltrated Outer Heaven. Venom can dodge shots from a rail gun and other highly advanced weapons but can't dodge RC missiles fired by essentially a less experienced version of himself? Not likely. Also of note is that the US bought out the contracts of all surviving Outer Heaven mercs and turned them into the next-gen special forces under the command of Liquid in MGS1. However, why would soldiers under the command of Venom choose to follow Liquid, the man who betrayed them back in 1984? The answer I propose is that Venom told them to. Outer Heaven was under his command, and composed (in theory) by members of Diamond Dogs, who are fiercely loyal to Venom (and perhaps Venom alone, as in MGSV after the ending when some DD members salute you they'll say that they don't care who you really are or if you're the real boss, that they'd serve under you anyway). If Venom laid out his plan to them they'd definitely go for it. I'd also wager that Liquid was in on their plan too, as why else would he work with Ocelot, who was also there during his interaction with Venom and the Diamond Dogs? Miller is shown in PW to be in contact with Cipher, so I'd bet that he continued playing both sides until he died. It could even be theorized that Miller didn't actually die in MGS1 (his body being a decoy or smth idk) and he and Venom (who, if you take the rumor about cybernetic resurrection given by Kasler in MG2SS to be true) are out in hiding somewhere watching the events of the world play out. Was Liquid Ocelot planned too? As a way to control Ocelot who would be seen as the biggest threat? Who knows?
I think I just dug myself a mental rabbithole of no escape, I pity all who have read far enough to see this...
I love how well thought out this is!! Unfortunately, I don't think Kaz was trying to strengthen Venom as he says he's going to train up BB's sons (aka Snavid) to take BB on... And honestly with what we know about Venom I'm also surprised Snavid was able to defeat him in MG1 haha Like Venom really did have the experience to best Snavid... And I'd never really thought about DD's serving under Liquid after meeting him as a buttcrack kid on mother base haha I feel like maybe they just didn't remember him and only knew him as Liquid. Kaz and Ocelot were keeping Eli's maybe relation to Big Boss hush hush and then tested his DNA to Venom's and found it wasn't a match, so I don't think any of them really remember Eli as BB's son. So Liquid was probably a whole new person to them...
@@luffiewebster Yeah that makes sense. I just kinda always wondered what Kaz meant when he said "The boss can go to hell. I'll make the phantom and his sons stronger to send him there." and he said he would strengthen the phantom. Thats where my weird theory stemmed from. He also says "sons" plural indicating he was also intending to assist Liquid (and maybe Solidus as he was active during that time in Africa so maybe Miller knew about him too). We know he trained Snavid but Venom, Liquid, and Solidus' lives during that time period have almost nothing known about them. Not to mention that quote by Miller is right at the end of Phantom Pain, in the spot where we usually get a teaser for a sequel, so maybe if the series continued (by that I mean not jumping into time travel nonsense with Metal Gear Survive) that's the direction it would have gone. Who knows?
Let me add an update to the theory as I think I just figured it out. In MGSV it's known that nuclear disarmament can be achieved, and it triggers a cutscene confirming that the world is rid of nukes. Of course, the world being rid of nukes conflicts majorly with the rest of the series given that MG1, MG2, MGS and so forth all explicitly state that nukes are still a thing as that's part of the big threats in those games. So in my opinion, we actually did achieve what Miller meant. By literally changing history by achieving disarmament, we do send Big Boss to hell in a way as his plans for Outer Heaven and ZL could never happen. Plus, I think it'd be really fitting that the MG series ends with a closing of the story's loop, but also the beginning of a new loop influenced by us, the players, in which the world-ending threat is removed, allowing peace to finally be achieved.
BB... that's so cute 🤭
I'm going to call him that from now on
Yey! One Of Us
I just realized that b's grave just says a patriot showing how she was a silent hero in the series
Yeah! It's so sad they couldn't give her a legit grave with her name on it since she was technically a traitor...
As much as I like Venom Snake, I think if he was the same BB from the other games it would really improve the original BBs character
What do you mean? Like if BB was in V instead of Venom?
@@luffiewebster probably.
@@luffiewebster yeah
no, that doesn't work with phantom pain's story and themes
It’s imperative to accept V and his story as valid if you accept the story of MG1 and MG2