It would be interesting to do the experiment with one container with water only, no substrate, to get an idea of just how much difference having substrate makes in a tank.
Correct, this would be the real control. According to the this experiment the control was not really bad compared to the best performer. Since the control was low I don't think we can conclude the gravel really helped.
well im doing this currently and i have not had a problem and i have a fish in it for two months no wTer change and fake plants and not problems at all only algae extremly green water from one small mollie in a 36 gallon tank and filter and feed every now and than
See, this is the kind of thing I want to see more of in the aquarium community. People testing things. In a more scientific way than just "I've been doing x, and I've had great results!" or "I tried x and everything died". Anecdotal one-offs without control groups are meaningless for studying biology questions. This video is awesome, and makes me re-think substrate depth. liked and favorited.
You are brilliant Jay! Why do you have only 2k subs? I binge-watched all you videos today and I am here to stay. Keep doing videos and keep spreading the knowledge and 200k subs won't be long away Jay. Start a Patreon, I need to buy you a coffee!
Hey Jay, that’s good work here. Your experiment is not flawed at all. We can all agree that anaerobic bacteria is going to process nitrates effectively in all four of these containers, the hypothesis should be wrapped around what depths of substrate will provide the MOST STABLE conditions in the water column. Your findings indicate deeper is indeed better, but at what point is depth optimal, considering nobody wants to display a glass box full of wet rocks. The last tank we established this past year has a deep gravel bed with an under gravel filter. We are returning to the UGF after abandoning the concept decades ago. We rationalized that UGF systems lost there effectiveness when we started pushing them with power heads. The power heads actually push too much water and prevent anaerobic zones all together. Well duh, that was what we were shooting for at the time, with the thinking anaerobic zones were bad for the tank. With a slow flow, we are using the gravel more effectively, presumably aerobic and anaerobic zones establish themselves voluntarily and chaotically as debris accumulates and breaks down in ever changing zones in the substrate. We have also overcome the issue of a slow flow UGF from becoming compacted with debris by the simple introduction of snails to the system, and creating opportunities for them to enter/leave and move about the entire system unobstructed. The ultimate prize is “How STABLE a system can we create?”. We don’t want no fragile system. We don’t want no false control. No dark stark chasm in the glass room. Creatures, leave our fish alone!
Exactly what I was thinking! I'm going to turn off my power heads on my UGF. Back in the day my UGF was powered by an air pump and I barely did water changes yet my nitrates were always close to zero. Now I have 2 power heads on my UGF & my nitrates are through the roof.. With lots of water changes!
I'm late to the conversation, but I had powerheads on my ugf in a 100 gallon tank and it worked just fine. I didn't completely cover the bottom with a ugf though. I used 2 plates that could maybe cover a 20 or 30 gallon tank. I also used the reverse flow on the powerhead and I never had any problems. My substrate was always around 3 1\2- 4 1\2 inches. A little higher in back.
The experimental tanks are so unlike for example 10 gallon tanks with filtration, fish, water flow, and oxygenation to name just a few. As a Biologist I would argue that no conclusions can be reached from this experiment.
It's possible the water was able to pass through the gravel substrate a little easier, as slow as it may be , allowing for better contact with the nitrate and bacteria. These are excellent videos!!! Thank you so much for making them!!!
A substrate should not be a homogeneous substance. Gardeners have known for generations that you need channels for nutrients to flow through to get to the roots. It's the same principle here, bacteria can only feed if they get the dirty water. It didn't matter if the sand had a billion times the surface area for bacteria to grow, they weren't going to grow if they couldn't feed. Mixing different size particles in a substrate creates channels that will allow water to flow through more easily. Smaller bits, like fine sand, give surface area for the bacteria to grow on while larger bits, like gravel, space things out so that it doesn't become compacted and block flow.
Great series. Ive actually developed a deep multi layered substrate system which ive had for 2 years, consisting of various layers including foam, alfa grog, gravel, activated carbon, tetra complete substrate with an UGF running on only half of the tank using an FX6 to pull the water upto a 36 chamber trickle tower filled with various media including Biohome and a separate sun sun with a pre filter on the other half of the tank. The tank holds 800 litres of water and is heavily planted with a strong flow out and calm flow in. I found the key was giving enough time for the plants, critters and bacteria to get fully established, so a full cycle and anoxic zones can be established. Then I first introduced hundreds of snails after about 2 months making sure i massively over fed. Then I slowly introduced shrimp and fish for the tank, allowing each species to fully establish and breed and/or scatter eggs before introducing more species, so the tank could be as self sufficient as possible, ie pea pufffers & dwarf loaches to control the snail/shrimp population, very dense planting for cover, combination of bristlenose, siamese algae eaters and otto's to control different types of algae & eggs, angel's, rainbows, gubby, molly, so there are extra fry and egg scattering to just helps the tank have a self contained minor food supply. The tank is more or less bulletproof at this stage and I don't change more than 20% water per week, I mainly top water up due to evaporation and only clean the pre filters /fine pads once a week. Patience is key.
@Captain Kidd ye I agree it is overkill but it took years of experimenting to get create the nearest thing to a self sufficient tank, I could get. As I got busier lifestyle changed with kids. A system like this has helped teach the kids about all kinds of things like an eco system and not just pretty fish in a box. They've learnt about multiple different filtration systems, plants, snail, shrimp etc. Now when we go to aquariums or zoo's with aquatic sections, we're looking at those environments and identifying so much more than the average kid at a zoo. When you're working to create something like that and experimenting, it helps untangle your mind by figuring out solutions for creating a better habitat for the inhabitants of the aquatic world we create.
Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic, so the gravel probably did best because the larger particles allowed for water to still circulate through the medium and provide oxygen to the bacteria. Oxygen availability decreased as the sand got deeper, preventing the entire surface area from being a suitable environment for the bacteria, so there was less bacteria in the deep sand despite it having a much greater surface area.
I love this study. Thank you for being so scientific, thoughtful, and meticulous with your experiment. As for why gravel was the best performer, it’s because gravel has far more air space between components than sand. The bacteria concerned in the nitrogen cycle are aerobic, meaning they need air for metabolism.
With sand you may need air pump for slightly more oxygen for better result. He didn't have air pump, that why gravel was better. Am I right or wrong? Please correct me thanks.
@@CoolNumber1 Yeah, you're right, an air pump would indeed improve the results of the sand one, but that wasn't a part of the experiment. Ideally you would use gravel AND an air pump.
Your videos are outstanding and your explanations very clear. Thank you. I'm sorry this comment and question come almost two years later, but I just began reading on the subject of deep substrates. If I have understood correctly, your results contradict other deep substrate theories which claim that gravel will not work because oxygenated water will circulate freely, reaching the bottom of the substate creating an aerobic environment. In your case, the gravel even seems relatively large, from 1 to 2 cm. If gravel works, it would avoid the worries many have that sand compresses and does not allow for any circulation. Personally, I have several bags of gravel hanging around which I could use--- it is called Permatill, a kiln-baked expanded slate rock with considerable surface area, similar in size to the gravel you used in experiment, but with porous surface. I had planned to use it as an aquaponics media, but decided to go with hydroponics, instead. Do you think I can use this successfully as a deep substrate? Thanks and keep up the good work.
Once concluded, any long term experiment can reveal its advantages and flaws depending on how one looks at it. Your data shows there are differences. Very interesting none the less.
I think the gravel performed better likely because the water could move easier through the media. The effect can be super charged by adding a little flow to the water and even more by adding a plenum under the substrate. Doing so might show that gravel doesn't do as good only because of too much oxygen flowing through it.
This is really excellent content. Thank you for this. You did say: 'I would do it differently if I could do it again.' Hope that you do (or have.) I'll look for it. This is really first rate content. Thank you for all your efforts.
Love your experiment. Watch or look up father fish ,, he’s been doing deep substrates for over 20 years. He’s 80 now and swears by it. Not keen on over feeding either,, well worth checking out. I’ve sent him the link to this video,, Thank you for taking the time to do this experiment. Interesting stuff. 🙏🐠🐟
You need a small airstone in each water column, one air pump with a 4 way splitter, and like you said, larger/taller containers, but thank you for this cool experiment!
Thank you for conducting this experiment. The concept of a deep substrate is something I have come across recently and I am glad to see more evidence in favour for it.
Great experiment Jay - us aquarists always seem to have lots of ideas, but very few folks go out of their way to put them to the test. Wouldn't it be nice if there was an Aquarium Testing Institute for doing larger-scale experiments like this? 😅 I'd like to see this done with larger tanks that have some water movement, with a few extra tanks - one just water, and one with the usual 1" of gravel that most hobbyists seem to prefer. I'd theorize that the gravel here performed best because there was more flow permitted within the substrate and a greater volume of available water. Of course, who has the time, space, or tanks for that? 😂
Maybe with the bigger gaps between the gravel vs fine sand there would be some movement caused by the escaping gas that caused the flow of "fresher" Nitrate laden water to flow down into the Oxygen deprived zone and thus allowed for better conversion there. As in the mixing is not pronounced to disturb the Oxygen deprived zone but enough to allow "fresh" exchange to happen.
Try listening to the masked aquarist podcast. He experimented a lot with a deep substrates and found they definitely worked for removing nitrates, but crashed after about a year. I have read similar results from people who have tried miracle mud and Fiji mud in saltwater aquariums. I think the bed just becomes clogged and water / nitrates can’t pass into the anaerobic layer. I think that’s why the miracle mud guy says to replace the mud bed yearly. You probably know this already, but You also have to be careful with sulfates in your tank. If nitrates become very low, sulfates will be utilized by the facultative anaerobic bacteria and produce hydrogen sulfide gas. You’ll know when that happens due to the rotten egg smell. Also, how have you been measuring nitrate levels? Which test kit? I’ve found the LaMotte test kit very helpful as the API liquid test kit becomes difficult past 20 ppm.
I think one thing you found here with the gravel is, the stones themselves are able to have anoxic zones. Likely in each stone even the ones on top. One issue with deep sand/soil beds is moving carbon/nitrate in and out of the bed itself. Gravel doesn't have this problem as much, as there is space around each stone for transport.
Right, DEEP gravel with some dirt on the bottom if you like. Sand caps might even hinder the process. I mix sand and gravel, but am rethinking the deep sand cap thing.
How about aerating the water above the substrate with an air stone? Wouldn't that eliminate the issue of that water turning anoxic? You can get a relativity cheap air pump and a manifold to split it for all the bottles. Also, not sure if I missed it but shouldn't you have a control with no substrate?
I think the best way to test this is long term, say over at least a 12 month period. Some argue that a deep substrate is a time bomb, not because of the gasing but because it can only take so much until you get problems. Also I could be way off but I believe the gravel does better because it doesn't compact like sand, it let's more oxygen in but at an extremely slow rate, slow enough to still have the bacteria you want to get rid of nitrates.
I have contacted numerous proponents of the anoxic deep bed substrates and no one has been able to explain the physics behind the process. Having nitrates in the aquarium water (above the deep substrate), how do the nitrates circulate down deep and through the substrate to where the anoxic bacteria convert nitrates to nitrogen gas? Even if there is some small level of water circulation deep within the bed, I don't believe the anoxic bacteria will have access to the majority of the nitrates in solution above the substrate in the aquarium water?
I’m considering doing this experiment....I am raising a batch of baby bettas, and I saw an Aquarium Co-op video a while ago about the guy in San Francisco who has a whole store of no-water-change tanks. He also keeps his bettas in tall cups with deep substrate and doesn’t change their water either. Since I’m going to have 30-50 jars, I might do this with a few of them. Of course I wouldn’t be able to let them have spikes and just ride it out, because the betta would be in jeopardy, but I hope to see if I can at least not have to do water changes daily as many breeders do. I would also give each one a fast growing plant in their jar. Maybe at the same time find out what plant works best in the jars to keep it balanced.
Thank you Jay for putting this experiment on RUclips. Have you come up with any theory’s why the gravel substrate worked so well? Could the spaces between gravel particles allow for a greater depth of anoxic zone? My present aquariums have quite shallow substrates and have always suffered a slight nitrate problem, previously I had an aquarium with a very deep substrate at the back and I was often told that I must be doing the nitrate test wrong when I mentioned I was getting 0 nitrate results. Have got a couple of nano tanks fitted with a plenum and results are so far so good (although bioload is very small at present). Any thoughts on the use of a plenum (Kevin Novak series)? Really enjoyed your series on the nitrogen cycle, your explanation helped a lot.
@@Jaysaquarium Plenums IMO are unnecessary with deep substrate. Again "plenums" are not found in the ponds and lakes that we're trying to simulate. Right? Fat cat Novak got told to help keep the "equipment is necessary" idea alive IMO. All the big filter companies stand to lose a lot of money as Walstadt type methods become popular. Heaters will always be in demand.
wow I got so many recommendations to do no substrate tanks because it's easier to keep it clean, your experiments just shows me that it's exactly the opposite :O
you need a Dissolved oxygen meter and keep the water Dissolved oxygen ideal for fish. it's easy to create an anoxic/anaerobic condition if aquarium life doesn't need to be sustained.
@Jay's aquarium Hello, have you run the experiment with pumping oxygen into the tanks so they don't get lack of oxygen? I just found this channel - you make very nice experiments. You are giving me a very new perspective into aquarium keeping.
Well done. The thing with the scientific method is that the results have to be repeatable. I would like to see you run the same experiment again with bigger containers. At the $1 dollar store I can get plastic canisters that are about twice the size of the bottles you're using. They're a good bit taller in relation to their width so that might help with the shallow water problem and give readings closer to what you'd get in an aquarium. I have a theory why the gravel works better. Sand crystals don't have much surface area in relation to the length of their edges. Gravels do. The extra surface area gives more places for bacteria to latch onto and grow. Something that might work even better is crushed lava rock or scoria. It's very porous as well as having a larger grain size. Not only would bacteria be inside in the lava rock, but it would be inside as well. Please do more of these experiments. This is fascinating stuff.
I think you should do it. Do it for yourself and record and post the results. Why wait for Jay? I did it. My result after approximately 3 months, 20g tank, 5 adult Guppies, a shit ton of fry, Duckweed, Stem plants, Crypts other plants, 2 to 4 inches of gravel mixed with crushed coral AND DIRT! I just now 9.22.2019 measured the parameters all are perfect!! ZERO NITRATES!! ZILCH, NONE....NO DETECTABLE NITRATES IN THE TANK AS OF TODAY!!! OMG! And I fed the tank today before the test. This is big!
@@blimblumbollumblumb Ummm...if there's repeats in the first experiment that means it's repeatable. Then you can keep doing more variations of the same experiment as much as you like.
Very interesting expiirement. Do you think the gravel tank would still perform well with more water in it? It looks to be about 80% substrate and 20% water. Do you think that ratio was the reason for the low nitrates or is the depth of the gravel the reason.
Hi Jay: Is gravel vacuuming detrimental to building productive substrate? I vacuum (I have pea size gravel) each time I perform a water change on my 180 gallon. I’ve always had issues with high nitrate levels between 40-80ppm. In theory, should I see lower nitrate levels if I continue water changes without gravel vacuuming? My aquarium consists of lightly stocked blood parrot cichlids, barbs, and clown loaches. Thank you for producing this informative video.
That's exactly what father fish is telling everyone. I spent years fighting high nitrates. Now with a deep substrate, my nitrates went from 80 or more ppm to 20.
everything in my walstad tank was perfect. plants growing, no cloudiness, no smelly water but the PH would drop every day. the solution? deep substrate lol.
I’ve just set up a father fish dirted tank and I’m fighting high ammonia and nitrates atm. Been one week and my plants are melting 😞 I previously had gravel with just few yabbies before deciding to do a dirted tank. Zero ammonia zero nitrites and safe nitrate levels, ph around 7. I’ve just set up a dirted tank, 1in of soil and 2-3in sand cap. I have a few rocks and a log from a nearby stream which I plan to source my rainbow trout from once the tank cycles. I’ve also bought a heap of plants from my local aquarium shop (ambulia, rotundifolia, Val’s and swords). My problem atm is the plants are melting and others are slowly dying. I was able to keep 70% of exisiting water and just top up with tap water. Since the change Ph is pushing from 7 to now 7.5, ammonia is through the roof, nitrites still remain zero and nitrates are pushing to a level of needing a water change. My tap water ammonia is through roof with zero nitrites and nitrates. Currently I’m dosing with prime and stability but the ammonia doesn’t want to come any lower than 0.50ppm. Even the roots hanging from frogbit floating on top have melted away. Is there anything you can think of to suggest I approach. Just not sure why plants are having such a hard time. I realise that the dying plants may be contributing to ammonia but it’s started spiking after 24 hrs of set up. Thanks mate.
So nice to see you Jay. Hope you are well. Thank you for your time and energy. I so look forward to your videos. I am experimenting with deep bed substrates with plants below and above the water line thanks to you. Please don't work too hard if you can help it. Work less, play more. :) Not sure if this applies but...Happy early Chinese New Year...the year of the Pig will bring you prosperity and abundance.
It's a good experiment however it doesn't include other factors, mediums as what happens in flowing streams. ..perhaps if plants and simulation of 'gentle' water flow may be just right to create a ' no complete water change's? Most hobbyist will be happy maintaining an aquarium with just topping up water as it evaporates via aeration process?
Great video on how sand beds work to remove nitrates. Have you ever thought about using a large reactor (like a saltwater calcium reactor) and just filling it with sand or media and using that as a sand bed? I'm wondering if this would have the same effect.
i feel like feeding once a week was more ideal for greating a big enough biofilter to be efficient. considering most ammonia comes out the gills i think its an unrealistic comparison.
The purpose of this experiment was to look at denitrification of nitrate, not ammonia. Whilst ammonia is one of the first breakdown products of proteolysis, it is fairly quickly converted to nitrite, and then this is more slowly oxidized to nitrate. Not many flake foods immediately release NO3 on immersion. The proteins in them must first be broken down to proteoses, then peptones, polypeptides, peptides and amino acids. This requires a suite of decomposing bacteria that do the job in 8 - 12 hours. The amino acids must then be broken down themselves, eventually to ammonia. The nitrification process then kicks in. Nitrate is the persistent nitrogenous component that builds up, post-nitrification, that, following plant uptake, must be removed to keep the aquarium water in a healthy condition. Jay was looking into one of the alternatives to regular water changes, and he did a good job.
Interesting information and thanks for taking the time to do this experiment. Although I'm not sure this really tells us much other than SOME bacteria exists that consume nitrates. You should have tested amonia, nitrite and nitrate each time to see if each tank was on a level playing field. I.e if nitrite was high then it could mean there is not enough aerobic bacteria. This means that there is not enough nitrate being produced from that initial conversion... resulting in skewed data which tells us nothing about how substrate converts nitrate...rather that not enough time has passed to produced the bacteria necessary to even create nitrate...I hope that makes sense...
Hi i like the knowledge youve shared in this video, i have a question regarding the deep subtrate, if i combine the use of the sand and the gravel in my denitrification tank, which material should i put to the bottom of the denitrification tank? Should that be sand-gravel or gravel-sand?
Ok. I have learned that deeper substrate will help with the stabilization of nitrates. But how much ? If I have a 150 gallon aquarium with cichlids, how much should I keep the sand? 4, 6 or 8inches ?
You're right about experience, no better way to valid (or not) an hypothesis. What about liquids as input instead of food? Direct amonia, others with direct nitrates. How did you mesure nitrates? At least 2 different test set/provider..? Well done, looking for next exp ;)
Great video Jay-love your work. I do have two questions: 1) What type of sand were you using? Specifically the grain size. 2) Same for the gravel: do you know the approximate or averaged size? From the end of your video it looked to be varied but I’d be grateful if you could share. Thanks!
Check out Dr. Kevin Novak's videos on how putting a plenum with very slow moving water can change everything. He also explains why the sand turns black.
Thanks for the experiment. Very helpfull...comparing you findings on sand vs gravel both 12 cm deep...theorizing the gravel can let water reach the anoxic bottom much easier even though less contact Surface in comparison with more surface contact using sand...would you advise combining both gravel and sand? And if so..in what order?...
what you "build" here is a kind of diffusion filter, if you want to use a deep substrate in a fishtank with plants and animals then you should ho for different layers, lowest one should be volcanic mineral (big surface for bacteria, keeps the water flow), then gravel or soil above it, and at the top smaller gravel or powder soil.
Great experiment. Do you think the results will be different if the containers are much bigger like 1000 gallons or you reckon it will be according to scale? Also, what is the size of each gravel?
I have a 15 gallon tank with single discus and i have seachem matrix on top filter with a big sponge on the inlet of power head...i cant buy any plants Bcoz the place i live is a village and no lfs selling plants here... I can't do deep sand bed Bcoz the tank is to small for 4inches of sand, what is my best bet to reduce nitrates? I'm thinking of turning on the light for 12 hrs to increase algae growth which will eat nitrates... Would that work?
Isn’t the total volume of water quite different from bottle to bottle due to the varying depths of the substrate? Seeing as you used the same mass of food per bottle and didn’t control for different water volume, it seems more appropriate that you calculate the total mass of nitrate rather than the concentration of nitrate week to week.
Great Experiment, Sir... i’ve learned so much from this video.. Keep up the good work...😊👍🏿 There’s something that i’ve been wondering about for quite sometime now... Since we need bacteria to denitrify NO3 in the water, and the substrate alone can do this even without a functioning filter, would it help if we added Bio Balls in the substrate?.. will that help in Denitrifying the tank?..
You also need to consider what carbon source your facultative anaerobic bacteria are using. The fish food you used probably provided a good source of carbon, maybe? Many people find they need to dose with ethanol in deep sand beds to get the desired denitrification they’re looking for. Also, You may get different results with this experiment if you just supply nitrate directly by adding potassium nitrate. I’m guessing your ammonia and nitrite levels were exponential the first couple of months using bacteria only to process the flake food. This could also have an effect on your nitrate results as you may have had fluctuations in your Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrobacter and Nitrococcus bacteria populations. You may have been nitrate limited due to the amount of ammonia and nitrite being processed. It might be a good idea to plot ammonia and nitrite levels along with the nitrate levels in your graph to get a better understanding as to why/ how your nitrate levels are fluctuating. This would give you better conclusions on what kind of denitrification is going on in each substrate. Thanks for the discussion on this though and I appreciate your video and work. I have been experimenting with anaerobic gravel beds and carbon sources myself.
fish food provided the carbon. I considered experimenting with nitrate directly but decided that using fish food would better simulate real tank conditions.
Really cool stuff. The only problem I hear about deep substrate is anaerobic bacteria. Then if the pockets of the anaerobic bacteria build up over time then get released, then it could kill the fish. What is your view on this?
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It would be interesting to do the experiment with one container with water only, no substrate, to get an idea of just how much difference having substrate makes in a tank.
Correct, this would be the real control. According to the this experiment the control was not really bad compared to the best performer. Since the control was low I don't think we can conclude the gravel really helped.
instablaster.
well im doing this currently and i have not had a problem and i have a fish in it for two months no wTer change and fake plants and not problems at all only algae extremly green water from one small mollie in a 36 gallon tank and filter and feed every now and than
It makes all the difference in the world. Want to make a wager on it? :)
See, this is the kind of thing I want to see more of in the aquarium community. People testing things. In a more scientific way than just "I've been doing x, and I've had great results!" or "I tried x and everything died". Anecdotal one-offs without control groups are meaningless for studying biology questions. This video is awesome, and makes me re-think substrate depth. liked and favorited.
You are brilliant Jay! Why do you have only 2k subs? I binge-watched all you videos today and I am here to stay. Keep doing videos and keep spreading the knowledge and 200k subs won't be long away Jay. Start a Patreon, I need to buy you a coffee!
Gravel performed better however, sand on a planted aquarium delivers nutrients to plants that lower even more the nitrite levels .
Hey Jay, that’s good work here. Your experiment is not flawed at all. We can all agree that anaerobic bacteria is going to process nitrates effectively in all four of these containers, the hypothesis should be wrapped around what depths of substrate will provide the MOST STABLE conditions in the water column. Your findings indicate deeper is indeed better, but at what point is depth optimal, considering nobody wants to display a glass box full of wet rocks.
The last tank we established this past year has a deep gravel bed with an under gravel filter. We are returning to the UGF after abandoning the concept decades ago. We rationalized that UGF systems lost there effectiveness when we started pushing them with power heads. The power heads actually push too much water and prevent anaerobic zones all together. Well duh, that was what we were shooting for at the time, with the thinking anaerobic zones were bad for the tank. With a slow flow, we are using the gravel more effectively, presumably aerobic and anaerobic zones establish themselves voluntarily and chaotically as debris accumulates and breaks down in ever changing zones in the substrate. We have also overcome the issue of a slow flow UGF from becoming compacted with debris by the simple introduction of snails to the system, and creating opportunities for them to enter/leave and move about the entire system unobstructed.
The ultimate prize is “How STABLE a system can we create?”.
We don’t want no fragile system. We don’t want no false control. No dark stark chasm in the glass room. Creatures, leave our fish alone!
Exactly what I was thinking! I'm going to turn off my power heads on my UGF. Back in the day my UGF was powered by an air pump and I barely did water changes yet my nitrates were always close to zero. Now I have 2 power heads on my UGF & my nitrates are through the roof.. With lots of water changes!
yes that is indeed a good question that should be worked out by experimentation
I'm late to the conversation, but I had powerheads on my ugf in a 100 gallon tank and it worked just fine.
I didn't completely cover the bottom with a ugf though.
I used 2 plates that could maybe cover a 20 or 30 gallon tank.
I also used the reverse flow on the powerhead and I never had any problems.
My substrate was always around 3 1\2- 4 1\2 inches.
A little higher in back.
I just stopped to say that last paragraph is everything.
We are all just lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year…. 😊
The experimental tanks are so unlike for example 10 gallon tanks with filtration, fish, water flow, and oxygenation to name just a few. As a Biologist I would argue that no conclusions can be reached from this experiment.
I rarely subscribe to any channels but I just did so for yours. Excellent content.
It's possible the water was able to pass through the gravel substrate a little easier, as slow as it may be , allowing for better contact with the nitrate and bacteria.
These are excellent videos!!!
Thank you so much for making them!!!
That could very well be the case.
yes that was my theory as well
@@Jaysaquarium
I believe the sand will start to out perform the gravel as the water circulations increases.
A substrate should not be a homogeneous substance. Gardeners have known for generations that you need channels for nutrients to flow through to get to the roots. It's the same principle here, bacteria can only feed if they get the dirty water. It didn't matter if the sand had a billion times the surface area for bacteria to grow, they weren't going to grow if they couldn't feed. Mixing different size particles in a substrate creates channels that will allow water to flow through more easily. Smaller bits, like fine sand, give surface area for the bacteria to grow on while larger bits, like gravel, space things out so that it doesn't become compacted and block flow.
this IS the case, better waterflow with gravel
I wish I found you three years ago. Now I’m binge watching!
Wow, this is great! So essentially, a no filter set up would work best with a very deep substrate. I am going to guve this a try. THANKS JAY!
Great series. Ive actually developed a deep multi layered substrate system which ive had for 2 years, consisting of various layers including foam, alfa grog, gravel, activated carbon, tetra complete substrate with an UGF running on only half of the tank using an FX6 to pull the water upto a 36 chamber trickle tower filled with various media including Biohome and a separate sun sun with a pre filter on the other half of the tank. The tank holds 800 litres of water and is heavily planted with a strong flow out and calm flow in. I found the key was giving enough time for the plants, critters and bacteria to get fully established, so a full cycle and anoxic zones can be established. Then I first introduced hundreds of snails after about 2 months making sure i massively over fed. Then I slowly introduced shrimp and fish for the tank, allowing each species to fully establish and breed and/or scatter eggs before introducing more species, so the tank could be as self sufficient as possible, ie pea pufffers & dwarf loaches to control the snail/shrimp population, very dense planting for cover, combination of bristlenose, siamese algae eaters and otto's to control different types of algae & eggs, angel's, rainbows, gubby, molly, so there are extra fry and egg scattering to just helps the tank have a self contained minor food supply. The tank is more or less bulletproof at this stage and I don't change more than 20% water per week, I mainly top water up due to evaporation and only clean the pre filters /fine pads once a week. Patience is key.
sounds like an impressive setup
@Captain Kidd ye I agree it is overkill but it took years of experimenting to get create the nearest thing to a self sufficient tank, I could get.
As I got busier lifestyle changed with kids. A system like this has helped teach the kids about all kinds of things like an eco system and not just pretty fish in a box.
They've learnt about multiple different filtration systems, plants, snail, shrimp etc.
Now when we go to aquariums or zoo's with aquatic sections, we're looking at those environments and identifying so much more than the average kid at a zoo.
When you're working to create something like that and experimenting, it helps untangle your mind by figuring out solutions for creating a better habitat for the inhabitants of the aquatic world we create.
Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic, so the gravel probably did best because the larger particles allowed for water to still circulate through the medium and provide oxygen to the bacteria. Oxygen availability decreased as the sand got deeper, preventing the entire surface area from being a suitable environment for the bacteria, so there was less bacteria in the deep sand despite it having a much greater surface area.
I love this study. Thank you for being so scientific, thoughtful, and meticulous with your experiment. As for why gravel was the best performer, it’s because gravel has far more air space between components than sand. The bacteria concerned in the nitrogen cycle are aerobic, meaning they need air for metabolism.
With sand you may need air pump for slightly more oxygen for better result. He didn't have air pump, that why gravel was better. Am I right or wrong? Please correct me thanks.
@@CoolNumber1 Yeah, you're right, an air pump would indeed improve the results of the sand one, but that wasn't a part of the experiment. Ideally you would use gravel AND an air pump.
Your videos are outstanding and your explanations very clear. Thank you. I'm sorry this comment and question come almost two years later, but I just began reading on the subject of deep substrates. If I have understood correctly, your results contradict other deep substrate theories which claim that gravel will not work because oxygenated water will circulate freely, reaching the bottom of the substate creating an aerobic environment. In your case, the gravel even seems relatively large, from 1 to 2 cm. If gravel works, it would avoid the worries many have that sand compresses and does not allow for any circulation. Personally, I have several bags of gravel hanging around which I could use--- it is called Permatill, a kiln-baked expanded slate rock with considerable surface area, similar in size to the gravel you used in experiment, but with porous surface. I had planned to use it as an aquaponics media, but decided to go with hydroponics, instead. Do you think I can use this successfully as a deep substrate? Thanks and keep up the good work.
Once concluded, any long term experiment can reveal its advantages and flaws depending on how one looks at it. Your data shows there are differences. Very interesting none the less.
I think the gravel performed better likely because the water could move easier through the media. The effect can be super charged by adding a little flow to the water and even more by adding a plenum under the substrate. Doing so might show that gravel doesn't do as good only because of too much oxygen flowing through it.
Your video extremely amazing. I am very thankful for your experiments and lessons. I learn a lot. Thank you
Jay you are a god send
The gravel can exchange gas more nicely so it doesn't gets anoxic so its the best performance
This is really excellent content. Thank you for this.
You did say: 'I would do it differently if I could do it again.'
Hope that you do (or have.) I'll look for it.
This is really first rate content. Thank you for all your efforts.
This is very well done. Good job and thank you.
Another underrated channel... so sad
TRUE
Absolutely
This guy is genius!
Absolutely. Calm and clear.
easy experiment with an unexpected result.
thumbs up for the idea and realisation!
Jay, wow. Thanks for taking one for the team and sciencing this! Been on my mind forever. Thanks dude
Extremely interesting! I'm loving your videos and experiments keep them coming please! I'm learning so much!
Its you who surprised us. Thanks for sharing the experiment.
I loved your videos on Filters
Love your experiment. Watch or look up father fish ,, he’s been doing deep substrates for over 20 years. He’s 80 now and swears by it. Not keen on over feeding either,, well worth checking out.
I’ve sent him the link to this video,,
Thank you for taking the time to do this experiment. Interesting stuff. 🙏🐠🐟
I've been doing deep substrate since the early 90s.
This was common knowledge back then.
also for this experiment to be relevant you need flow i think itd be worth recreating the experiment with airstones
Do ponds and lakes have flow? Water moves on it's own.
You need a small airstone in each water column, one air pump with a 4 way splitter, and like you said, larger/taller containers, but thank you for this cool experiment!
I LOVE what you teach me, Jay! Thank you for helping me better understand my hobby. 🐠
Thank you for conducting this experiment. The concept of a deep substrate is something I have come across recently and I am glad to see more evidence in favour for it.
Deep substrate was a common practice in the 90s and before.
I have always had at least 3 inches of substrate in any tank.
Great experiment Jay - us aquarists always seem to have lots of ideas, but very few folks go out of their way to put them to the test. Wouldn't it be nice if there was an Aquarium Testing Institute for doing larger-scale experiments like this? 😅
I'd like to see this done with larger tanks that have some water movement, with a few extra tanks - one just water, and one with the usual 1" of gravel that most hobbyists seem to prefer. I'd theorize that the gravel here performed best because there was more flow permitted within the substrate and a greater volume of available water. Of course, who has the time, space, or tanks for that? 😂
Sounds like projects for the future
Just found your videos and am really enjoying them.
should control have no substrate?
This is awesome. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Love love love your video. Appreciate the time you spent to measure and test those parameters. Big fan here.
Nice vid. I have a 12g with 4 inch of coarse substrate which stays clear than a 30g with fine. It was a puzzle. Now I'm know. Keep posting!
Your videos are quality learning material. Very good! Thank you!
Maybe with the bigger gaps between the gravel vs fine sand there would be some movement caused by the escaping gas that caused the flow of "fresher" Nitrate laden water to flow down into the Oxygen deprived zone and thus allowed for better conversion there. As in the mixing is not pronounced to disturb the Oxygen deprived zone but enough to allow "fresh" exchange to happen.
Try listening to the masked aquarist podcast. He experimented a lot with a deep substrates and found they definitely worked for removing nitrates, but crashed after about a year. I have read similar results from people who have tried miracle mud and Fiji mud in saltwater aquariums. I think the bed just becomes clogged and water / nitrates can’t pass into the anaerobic layer. I think that’s why the miracle mud guy says to replace the mud bed yearly. You probably know this already, but You also have to be careful with sulfates in your tank. If nitrates become very low, sulfates will be utilized by the facultative anaerobic bacteria and produce hydrogen sulfide gas. You’ll know when that happens due to the rotten egg smell. Also, how have you been measuring nitrate levels? Which test kit? I’ve found the LaMotte test kit very helpful as the API liquid test kit becomes difficult past 20 ppm.
Loving the experiments, keep up the good work buddy!
I think one thing you found here with the gravel is, the stones themselves are able to have anoxic zones. Likely in each stone even the ones on top. One issue with deep sand/soil beds is moving carbon/nitrate in and out of the bed itself. Gravel doesn't have this problem as much, as there is space around each stone for transport.
Right, DEEP gravel with some dirt on the bottom if you like. Sand caps might even hinder the process. I mix sand and gravel, but am rethinking the deep sand cap thing.
How about aerating the water above the substrate with an air stone? Wouldn't that eliminate the issue of that water turning anoxic? You can get a relativity cheap air pump and a manifold to split it for all the bottles. Also, not sure if I missed it but shouldn't you have a control with no substrate?
I have a similar experiment like that runnung already. will share results in a few months
I think the best way to test this is long term, say over at least a 12 month period. Some argue that a deep substrate is a time bomb, not because of the gasing but because it can only take so much until you get problems. Also I could be way off but I believe the gravel does better because it doesn't compact like sand, it let's more oxygen in but at an extremely slow rate, slow enough to still have the bacteria you want to get rid of nitrates.
I have multiple long term experiments on the channel check them out. Im also almost done with one experiment that lasted months
Excellent experiment & interesting results - TFS.
BTW; (6:40) I think the gravel might work better b/c it has better flow-through.
wonderful exps. please post more like these. greatly appreciated. thanks.
Nice job Jay as always.
Awesome content, thank you for taking the time to document this experiment
I have contacted numerous proponents of the anoxic deep bed substrates and no one has been able to explain the physics behind the process. Having nitrates in the aquarium water (above the deep substrate), how do the nitrates circulate down deep and through the substrate to where the anoxic bacteria convert nitrates to nitrogen gas? Even if there is some small level of water circulation deep within the bed, I don't believe the anoxic bacteria will have access to the majority of the nitrates in solution above the substrate in the aquarium water?
Great jobb! 👏👏👏👏
Your doing good work + these types of exparements take lots of time. Good job
I wonder if the gravel acted as loose plenum
Probably.
What as out dosing nitrates from a bottle for the test. Eliminates the ammonia part of the test
Great experiment
Any ideas as to why gravel performs so well. Heck of a job you did, I love these videos.
I'd like to think it's because the water can actually pass through the gravel
I’m considering doing this experiment....I am raising a batch of baby bettas, and I saw an Aquarium Co-op video a while ago about the guy in San Francisco who has a whole store of no-water-change tanks. He also keeps his bettas in tall cups with deep substrate and doesn’t change their water either. Since I’m going to have 30-50 jars, I might do this with a few of them. Of course I wouldn’t be able to let them have spikes and just ride it out, because the betta would be in jeopardy, but I hope to see if I can at least not have to do water changes daily as many breeders do. I would also give each one a fast growing plant in their jar. Maybe at the same time find out what plant works best in the jars to keep it balanced.
Sounds good
U r my fav bro.. planning to setup my fisrt nano planted tank.. pls keep making new videos...
Thank you Jay for putting this experiment on RUclips. Have you come up with any theory’s why the gravel substrate worked so well? Could the spaces between gravel particles allow for a greater depth of anoxic zone?
My present aquariums have quite shallow substrates and have always suffered a slight nitrate problem, previously I had an aquarium with a very deep substrate at the back and I was often told that I must be doing the nitrate test wrong when I mentioned I was getting 0 nitrate results.
Have got a couple of nano tanks fitted with a plenum and results are so far so good (although bioload is very small at present). Any thoughts on the use of a plenum (Kevin Novak series)?
Really enjoyed your series on the nitrogen cycle, your explanation helped a lot.
I think the gravel had better cifculation of water. jus a theory
@@Jaysaquarium Plenums IMO are unnecessary with deep substrate. Again "plenums" are not found in the ponds and lakes that we're trying to simulate. Right? Fat cat Novak got told to help keep the "equipment is necessary" idea alive IMO. All the big filter companies stand to lose a lot of money as Walstadt type methods become popular. Heaters will always be in demand.
We got told so we shouldn't have been too surprised. Happy for sure.
I wonder if the amount of water is diluting the food more for a lower reading
wow I got so many recommendations to do no substrate tanks because it's easier to keep it clean, your experiments just shows me that it's exactly the opposite :O
you need a Dissolved oxygen meter and keep the water Dissolved oxygen ideal for fish. it's easy to create an anoxic/anaerobic condition if aquarium life doesn't need to be sustained.
@Jay's aquarium Hello, have you run the experiment with pumping oxygen into the tanks so they don't get lack of oxygen? I just found this channel - you make very nice experiments. You are giving me a very new perspective into aquarium keeping.
Well done. The thing with the scientific method is that the results have to be repeatable. I would like to see you run the same experiment again with bigger containers. At the $1 dollar store I can get plastic canisters that are about twice the size of the bottles you're using. They're a good bit taller in relation to their width so that might help with the shallow water problem and give readings closer to what you'd get in an aquarium.
I have a theory why the gravel works better. Sand crystals don't have much surface area in relation to the length of their edges. Gravels do. The extra surface area gives more places for bacteria to latch onto and grow. Something that might work even better is crushed lava rock or scoria. It's very porous as well as having a larger grain size. Not only would bacteria be inside in the lava rock, but it would be inside as well.
Please do more of these experiments. This is fascinating stuff.
I think you should do it. Do it for yourself and record and post the results. Why wait for Jay? I did it. My result after approximately 3 months, 20g tank, 5 adult Guppies, a shit ton of fry, Duckweed, Stem plants, Crypts other plants, 2 to 4 inches of gravel mixed with crushed coral AND DIRT! I just now 9.22.2019 measured the parameters all are perfect!! ZERO NITRATES!! ZILCH, NONE....NO DETECTABLE NITRATES IN THE TANK AS OF TODAY!!! OMG! And I fed the tank today before the test. This is big!
Technically doesn't need to be repeatable if there's enough repeats in the first experiment.
@@blimblumbollumblumb Ummm...if there's repeats in the first experiment that means it's repeatable. Then you can keep doing more variations of the same experiment as much as you like.
Very interesting expiirement. Do you think the gravel tank would still perform well with more water in it? It looks to be about 80% substrate and 20% water. Do you think that ratio was the reason for the low nitrates or is the depth of the gravel the reason.
Hi Jay: Is gravel vacuuming detrimental to building productive substrate? I vacuum (I have pea size gravel) each time I perform a water change on my 180 gallon. I’ve always had issues with high nitrate levels between 40-80ppm. In theory, should I see lower nitrate levels if I continue water changes without gravel vacuuming? My aquarium consists of lightly stocked blood parrot cichlids, barbs, and clown loaches. Thank you for producing this informative video.
not sure if vacuuming is the problem, but worth a try not vacuuming.
That's exactly what father fish is telling everyone. I spent years fighting high nitrates. Now with a deep substrate, my nitrates went from 80 or more ppm to 20.
everything in my walstad tank was perfect. plants growing, no cloudiness, no smelly water but the PH would drop every day. the solution? deep substrate lol.
I’ve just set up a father fish dirted tank and I’m fighting high ammonia and nitrates atm. Been one week and my plants are melting 😞
I previously had gravel with just few yabbies before deciding to do a dirted tank. Zero ammonia zero nitrites and safe nitrate levels, ph around 7.
I’ve just set up a dirted tank, 1in of soil and 2-3in sand cap. I have a few rocks and a log from a nearby stream which I plan to source my rainbow trout from once the tank cycles. I’ve also bought a heap of plants from my local aquarium shop (ambulia, rotundifolia, Val’s and swords). My problem atm is the plants are melting and others are slowly dying. I was able to keep 70% of exisiting water and just top up with tap water. Since the change Ph is pushing from 7 to now 7.5, ammonia is through the roof, nitrites still remain zero and nitrates are pushing to a level of needing a water change. My tap water ammonia is through roof with zero nitrites and nitrates. Currently I’m dosing with prime and stability but the ammonia doesn’t want to come any lower than 0.50ppm. Even the roots hanging from frogbit floating on top have melted away. Is there anything you can think of to suggest I approach. Just not sure why plants are having such a hard time. I realise that the dying plants may be contributing to ammonia but it’s started spiking after 24 hrs of set up. Thanks mate.
To get an accurate test result you would still have to maintain equal volumes of water inside of the test containers. Love the Idea!
So nice to see you Jay. Hope you are well. Thank you for your time and energy. I so look forward to your videos. I am experimenting with deep bed substrates with plants below and above the water line thanks to you. Please don't work too hard if you can help it. Work less, play more. :) Not sure if this applies but...Happy early Chinese New Year...the year of the Pig will bring you prosperity and abundance.
It's a good experiment however it doesn't include other factors, mediums as what happens in flowing streams. ..perhaps if plants and simulation of 'gentle' water flow may be just right to create a ' no complete water change's? Most hobbyist will be happy maintaining an aquarium with just topping up water as it evaporates via aeration process?
Hidden gem of youtube...
Great video on how sand beds work to remove nitrates. Have you ever thought about using a large reactor (like a saltwater calcium reactor) and just filling it with sand or media and using that as a sand bed? I'm wondering if this would have the same effect.
Havnt tried something like that. Wouldnt there be too much oxygen in the reactor?
i feel like feeding once a week was more ideal for greating a big enough biofilter to be efficient. considering most ammonia comes out the gills i think its an unrealistic comparison.
The purpose of this experiment was to look at denitrification of nitrate, not ammonia. Whilst ammonia is one of the first breakdown products of proteolysis, it is fairly quickly converted to nitrite, and then this is more slowly oxidized to nitrate. Not many flake foods immediately release NO3 on immersion. The proteins in them must first be broken down to proteoses, then peptones, polypeptides, peptides and amino acids. This requires a suite of decomposing bacteria that do the job in 8 - 12 hours. The amino acids must then be broken down themselves, eventually to ammonia. The nitrification process then kicks in. Nitrate is the persistent nitrogenous component that builds up, post-nitrification, that, following plant uptake, must be removed to keep the aquarium water in a healthy condition.
Jay was looking into one of the alternatives to regular water changes, and he did a good job.
Interesting ✌️ thanks for sharing
Interesting information and thanks for taking the time to do this experiment.
Although I'm not sure this really tells us much other than SOME bacteria exists that consume nitrates.
You should have tested amonia, nitrite and nitrate each time to see if each tank was on a level playing field.
I.e if nitrite was high then it could mean there is not enough aerobic bacteria. This means that there is not enough nitrate being produced from that initial conversion... resulting in skewed data which tells us nothing about how substrate converts nitrate...rather that not enough time has passed to produced the bacteria necessary to even create nitrate...I hope that makes sense...
Hi i like the knowledge youve shared in this video, i have a question regarding the deep subtrate, if i combine the use of the sand and the gravel in my denitrification tank, which material should i put to the bottom of the denitrification tank? Should that be sand-gravel or gravel-sand?
no evidence to support either, but the difference would be trivial.
Ok. I have learned that deeper substrate will help with the stabilization of nitrates. But how much ? If I have a 150 gallon aquarium with cichlids, how much should I keep the sand? 4, 6 or 8inches ?
Excellent video. You got yourself another sub.
You're right about experience, no better way to valid (or not) an hypothesis. What about liquids as input instead of food? Direct amonia, others with direct nitrates. How did you mesure nitrates? At least 2 different test set/provider..? Well done, looking for next exp ;)
Great video Jay-love your work. I do have two questions:
1) What type of sand were you using? Specifically the grain size.
2) Same for the gravel: do you know the approximate or averaged size? From the end of your video it looked to be varied but I’d be grateful if you could share.
Thanks!
gravel is about 1.5~2cm. The sand is river sand that I gathered locally. can't provide exact dimensions.
Jay's aquarium Thank you!
That was a very good video, well done Jay. Thanks for your time in doing this experiment! Can you please add a bottle of red clay to your experiment?
Check out Dr. Kevin Novak's videos on how putting a plenum with very slow moving water can change everything. He also explains why the sand turns black.
Thanks for the experiment. Very helpfull...comparing you findings on sand vs gravel both 12 cm deep...theorizing the gravel can let water reach the anoxic bottom much easier even though less contact Surface in comparison with more surface contact using sand...would you advise combining both gravel and sand? And if so..in what order?...
Thats a great question.. I would like to know answer so i can incorporate it in my turtle tank
Could it be the algae cosume the nitrate? I guess a combination of fine sand at the bottom and gravel on top will solve
what you "build" here is a kind of diffusion filter, if you want to use a deep substrate in a fishtank with plants and animals then you should ho for different layers, lowest one should be volcanic mineral (big surface for bacteria, keeps the water flow), then gravel or soil above it, and at the top smaller gravel or powder soil.
no
@@Jaysaquarium yes
Did you add the same amount of water in all four bottles?
Father Fish advocates deep substrate.
wow! amazing! keep it up!
Great experiment. Do you think the results will be different if the containers are much bigger like 1000 gallons or you reckon it will be according to scale? Also, what is the size of each gravel?
should scale to a bigger tank. gravel was about 2cm sized
I know you were testing for nitrate but what was the ammonia ppm I would assume it was high
I have a 15 gallon tank with single discus and i have seachem matrix on top filter with a big sponge on the inlet of power head...i cant buy any plants Bcoz the place i live is a village and no lfs selling plants here... I can't do deep sand bed Bcoz the tank is to small for 4inches of sand, what is my best bet to reduce nitrates? I'm thinking of turning on the light for 12 hrs to increase algae growth which will eat nitrates... Would that work?
I think the gravel worked best because it was very low oxygen, not no oxygen. Have you ever tried a plenum?
No.
@@Jaysaquarium Try one.
Isn’t the total volume of water quite different from bottle to bottle due to the varying depths of the substrate? Seeing as you used the same mass of food per bottle and didn’t control for different water volume, it seems more appropriate that you calculate the total mass of nitrate rather than the concentration of nitrate week to week.
Great Experiment, Sir... i’ve learned so much from this video..
Keep up the good work...😊👍🏿
There’s something that i’ve been wondering about for quite sometime now... Since we need bacteria to denitrify NO3 in the water, and the substrate alone can do this even without a functioning filter, would it help if we added Bio Balls in the substrate?.. will that help in Denitrifying the tank?..
I feel like the water cant pass through the fine sand as effectively as the gravel.
You also need to consider what carbon source your facultative anaerobic bacteria are using. The fish food you used probably provided a good source of carbon, maybe? Many people find they need to dose with ethanol in deep sand beds to get the desired denitrification they’re looking for. Also, You may get different results with this experiment if you just supply nitrate directly by adding potassium nitrate. I’m guessing your ammonia and nitrite levels were exponential the first couple of months using bacteria only to process the flake food. This could also have an effect on your nitrate results as you may have had fluctuations in your Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrobacter and Nitrococcus bacteria populations. You may have been nitrate limited due to the amount of ammonia and nitrite being processed. It might be a good idea to plot ammonia and nitrite levels along with the nitrate levels in your graph to get a better understanding as to why/ how your nitrate levels are fluctuating. This would give you better conclusions on what kind of denitrification is going on in each substrate. Thanks for the discussion on this though and I appreciate your video and work. I have been experimenting with anaerobic gravel beds and carbon sources myself.
fish food provided the carbon. I considered experimenting with nitrate directly but decided that using fish food would better simulate real tank conditions.
What bacteria are you using that is known to have this species for complete nitrification
Really cool stuff. The only problem I hear about deep substrate is anaerobic bacteria. Then if the pockets of the anaerobic bacteria build up over time then get released, then it could kill the fish. What is your view on this?
Total myth. Made a vid about it already
@@Jaysaquarium Thx, will check it out
such a great experiment! what do you think if we put bucket filled with gravel in side the sump? will it works?
that should help yes.