Thanks for having this interview and sharing it. David Snell did some interviews with Ben Spackman on Saints Unscripted last year which covered this same topic also, in detail. It's nice also to get Steven's and Ed's take on it. You both are on the same page with Ben Spackman with regards to the history of this topic in both the Latter-day Saint faith and in Christianity in general. I think the mindset is changing gradually over time (evolving 😊) for both Latter-day Saints and other Christians as well to be more accepting of the idea of a very ancient earth and that evolution may very well have been the process God used to create life and have it evolve to the point where modern humans and other modern creatures can thrive. Like you both pointed out, in the mean time, it will take time and we need to be patient and understanding of others who hold to the traditionalist views on this topic. We also need to be patient with the fact that often they won't be very understanding of those of us who do believe in evolution. I can understand why they often feel this way, as I was in that camp a number of years ago, having grown up with the teaching that the theory of evolution was wrong and was a deception. On a side note, it is interesting that Rod Meldrum and his cousin are on opposite sides of this topic. Rod Meldrum and Dean Sessions have really doubled down on their anti-evolution stance, having even come up with a very elaborate and detailed "Universal Model", basically re-creating much of modern science to support a traditional, literalist interpretation of a young earth and global flood of Noah, such as the claim that the earth is filled with water and not molten iron and magma.
Compatible or not, evolution is based on empirical data, so I’ll go with that. Being brought up in the Church, my dad would talk about evolution as a very normal and logical thing.
I took a class on evolution at byui, I remember the packet, I wish every student would read it. I had a roommate that thought evolution was blasphemy 😂
I attended Brigham Young University-Idaho in 2003 and in my Biology 101 class, my teacher taught evolution AND talked about Adam and Eve and gave his theory, as still a member of our faith and believed in the Bible! Deseret News featured an article by those I worked in my paper with, Doctors Teghan Lucas and Maciej Henneberg on micro evolution, back in 2020, writing how it is still happening today, they favored this paper of Licas nd Henneberg over the one and totally IGNORED the one that took FOUR YEARS on the Likely Image of Joseph Smith (that in skype they said was Joseph Smith in 2019 and continued to say they believe it is in emails). Somehow this Church owned paper ignored the latter paper, published January 3, 2023 in the Anthropological Review. All I can is Satan is the Father of Lies and someone told a BIG string of them about me…
Hey @DevilsRavioli! Here's my reply to you since RUclips is glitching in that thread... Basically yes, the DNA between Adam and those who bore him would be very similar, but not the same. When God said it's time for the human species to be, He made a slight alter in Adam's DNA that made him human. While it may be possible for God to make a grown human appear out of nowhere, I don't believe that is how He did it. I believe He follows the patterns and laws of nature which means Adam would be conceived, born, and grow up to adulthood. Even Jesus was born as an infant. Why didn't He just appear with a grown human mortal body? He was following the laws of nature as I believe He probably always has. And I should also clarify that when I say, 'I believe', I'm saying that from everything I have learned in the gospel (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), in science, and what makes the most sense to me, that I feel it is very likely that the process by which God creates organic creatures includes evolution. Not that I'm absolutely certain. Also, I believe God had a hand in each, or most, alterations to DNA throughout evolution, not just Adam's (scientists call them mutations).
This was an excellent discussion and thank you for pointing out that the church has no official stance on evolution. And you described exactly what I believe - that evolution was guided by God and life began with Him planting the first seed of life and then allowing things to progress by natural laws, but it was guided and progressed by his hand in the timing and way according to God's plan for all the variety of life and beauty on the Earth. He guided it to make sure humans would come to be who are in his image. The first man born with human DNA was Adam. It also solves the chicken and egg theory - the chicken egg would have come first and laid by its predecessor that wasn't exactly the same species as the chicken, but was very close. And the order that things came to be in the Bible and temple video is essentially the same order things came to be according to evolution. And all who have human DNA are human so *all* human races are fully human. Also, in the temple video when Heavenly Father is directing Jehovah in each stage he says "we will *call* it the 1st day...2nd day...3rd day" and so forth. So it may have either been a word used simply to differentiate between each stage which They directed or maybe because of the way space time works, many years could have passed on Earth while it was only days to God. So technically this belief entails both Creation and Evolution. God's creation involved evolution. God began and guided life on Earth and followed laws of nature in which he has complete knowledge and understanding of. So God has the ability to create because he has this complete knowledge and understanding of how organic nature works.
Did God, in your opinion, employ Darwin's "numerous, successive, slight modifications" to create the diversity and complexity we see in biology today? Of did he do it in leaps? For example, was the H. sapien auditory system invented by God in one big leap? Or do you believe the cochlea, stapes, incus, malleus tympanic membrane, and auditory nerve were invented at different points in time and served some other function before God put them all together to finally make hearing possible?
@firecloud77 The first part is my personal belief yes, but I don't profess to know exactly how God did it. And I believe the more we learn in science which is correct (it isn't always correct, but improves and is corrected over time) the more we learn what God already knows and get an idea of how He does the things He does. We are learning more of how the laws of nature and the universe work as he knows. But His knowledge is complete. We will unlikely gain it all during this life, but we will continue to learn in the next life.
Are you saying that you believe there is an actual, single generation, boundary between “human DNA” and non-human DNA?? (i.e. Adam’s parents did not have “human DNA”??).
@DevilsRavioli My reply to you keeps disappearing so it appears RUclips is glitching. And when this message sticks and I replace it with my reply to you it disappears again. So I will try replying to you in the main comment section.
Thank you. I was taught evolution and the Big Bank theories in my twelve years of Catholic primary and secondary education. a. In church and school, I was never told to be weary of these theories. I'm 64. b. In religion class, it was stressed that God has always been involved in humankind's existence. c. The Bible was inspired by God, God didn't write it. Most mainframe Christian denomations do not claim the Bible is inherent. d. Some parts of the Bible are just stories, especially the OT, like Adam and Eve and the Ark and the Great Flood. e. Please don't lump Catholic schools run by dioceses with other Christian schools. They started around 1900 because, like all immigrants, they were severely discriminated against. Orginally, Catholics were also targets of the KKK. - They meet or exceed all state standards and testing. - Religion class is treated like all others like science. - The schools are pretty progressive. Junior year, religion class was devoted to World religions.
I believe in creation, but also believe that evolution is possible and it may be part of the process of creation and is God driven. And that Adam was the first Man created in his image. Even Genesis shows how God started life with plants, then animals and then man.
Fun topic but Ed Goble expresses himself as an 8th grader with circular reasoning spiced up with endless “you know” “you know” “right” “right” “kinda” “kinda” “interesting” “interesting” mixed with stammering, halted speech, and cherry picked quotes. For god sake Ed get a public speaking tutor before issuing your Mormon lazy speech slop on RUclips. Practice your improved speech skills in Fast and Testimony meeting.
Im not going to be insulted by yet some other random nameless person on RUclips. I am unable to alter my manner of speech being an autistic person with a disabiliy
I'm saying that I am Ed Goble. And I'm not going to be discouraged against sharing my thoughts on RUclips just because some random overbearing person on RUclips wants to be unkind to people that have overcome a lot just to get barely to the point where they are to be able to function at all in some quasi-normal fashion, let alone taking some kind of speech tharapy, when they can't change their brain structure. Please find some other target to cyber bully. This conversation is over.
@@whitesalamander I am saying that I am Ed Goble. I am saying that I am not going to be discouraged from sharing my thoughts on RUclips, just because of some random, overbearing and unkind person that can't get past the way an autistic person talks. An autistic person can't change brain structure to be able to somehow increase the speed or quality of speech sometimes. So my advice to you is to find a different person on the internet to target if you want to waste time talking to someone.
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for having this interview and sharing it. David Snell did some interviews with Ben Spackman on Saints Unscripted last year which covered this same topic also, in detail. It's nice also to get Steven's and Ed's take on it. You both are on the same page with Ben Spackman with regards to the history of this topic in both the Latter-day Saint faith and in Christianity in general.
I think the mindset is changing gradually over time (evolving 😊) for both Latter-day Saints and other Christians as well to be more accepting of the idea of a very ancient earth and that evolution may very well have been the process God used to create life and have it evolve to the point where modern humans and other modern creatures can thrive. Like you both pointed out, in the mean time, it will take time and we need to be patient and understanding of others who hold to the traditionalist views on this topic. We also need to be patient with the fact that often they won't be very understanding of those of us who do believe in evolution. I can understand why they often feel this way, as I was in that camp a number of years ago, having grown up with the teaching that the theory of evolution was wrong and was a deception.
On a side note, it is interesting that Rod Meldrum and his cousin are on opposite sides of this topic. Rod Meldrum and Dean Sessions have really doubled down on their anti-evolution stance, having even come up with a very elaborate and detailed "Universal Model", basically re-creating much of modern science to support a traditional, literalist interpretation of a young earth and global flood of Noah, such as the claim that the earth is filled with water and not molten iron and magma.
Awesome. You should do one on it the Big Bang is compatible with Mormon theology
Great Topic.
Compatible or not, evolution is based on empirical data, so I’ll go with that. Being brought up in the Church, my dad would talk about evolution as a very normal and logical thing.
I took a class on evolution at byui, I remember the packet, I wish every student would read it. I had a roommate that thought evolution was blasphemy 😂
I attended Brigham Young University-Idaho in 2003 and in my Biology 101 class, my teacher taught evolution AND talked about Adam and Eve and gave his theory, as still a member of our faith and believed in the Bible!
Deseret News featured an article by those I worked in my paper with, Doctors Teghan Lucas and Maciej Henneberg on micro evolution, back in 2020, writing how it is still happening today, they favored this paper of Licas nd Henneberg over the one and totally IGNORED the one that took FOUR YEARS on the Likely Image of Joseph Smith (that in skype they said was Joseph Smith in 2019 and continued to say they believe it is in emails). Somehow this Church owned paper ignored the latter paper, published January 3, 2023 in the Anthropological Review. All I can is Satan is the Father of Lies and someone told a BIG string of them about me…
The Adam God theory seems evolutionary.
Hey @DevilsRavioli! Here's my reply to you since RUclips is glitching in that thread...
Basically yes, the DNA between Adam and those who bore him would be very similar, but not the same. When God said it's time for the human species to be, He made a slight alter in Adam's DNA that made him human. While it may be possible for God to make a grown human appear out of nowhere, I don't believe that is how He did it. I believe He follows the patterns and laws of nature which means Adam would be conceived, born, and grow up to adulthood. Even Jesus was born as an infant. Why didn't He just appear with a grown human mortal body? He was following the laws of nature as I believe He probably always has.
And I should also clarify that when I say, 'I believe', I'm saying that from everything I have learned in the gospel (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), in science, and what makes the most sense to me, that I feel it is very likely that the process by which God creates organic creatures includes evolution. Not that I'm absolutely certain.
Also, I believe God had a hand in each, or most, alterations to DNA throughout evolution, not just Adam's (scientists call them mutations).
This was an excellent discussion and thank you for pointing out that the church has no official stance on evolution. And you described exactly what I believe - that evolution was guided by God and life began with Him planting the first seed of life and then allowing things to progress by natural laws, but it was guided and progressed by his hand in the timing and way according to God's plan for all the variety of life and beauty on the Earth. He guided it to make sure humans would come to be who are in his image. The first man born with human DNA was Adam. It also solves the chicken and egg theory - the chicken egg would have come first and laid by its predecessor that wasn't exactly the same species as the chicken, but was very close. And the order that things came to be in the Bible and temple video is essentially the same order things came to be according to evolution. And all who have human DNA are human so *all* human races are fully human.
Also, in the temple video when Heavenly Father is directing Jehovah in each stage he says "we will *call* it the 1st day...2nd day...3rd day" and so forth. So it may have either been a word used simply to differentiate between each stage which They directed or maybe because of the way space time works, many years could have passed on Earth while it was only days to God.
So technically this belief entails both Creation and Evolution. God's creation involved evolution. God began and guided life on Earth and followed laws of nature in which he has complete knowledge and understanding of. So God has the ability to create because he has this complete knowledge and understanding of how organic nature works.
Did God, in your opinion, employ Darwin's "numerous, successive, slight modifications" to create the diversity and complexity we see in biology today? Of did he do it in leaps?
For example, was the H. sapien auditory system invented by God in one big leap? Or do you believe the cochlea, stapes, incus, malleus tympanic membrane, and auditory nerve were invented at different points in time and served some other function before God put them all together to finally make hearing possible?
@firecloud77 The first part is my personal belief yes, but I don't profess to know exactly how God did it. And I believe the more we learn in science which is correct (it isn't always correct, but improves and is corrected over time) the more we learn what God already knows and get an idea of how He does the things He does. We are learning more of how the laws of nature and the universe work as he knows. But His knowledge is complete. We will unlikely gain it all during this life, but we will continue to learn in the next life.
Are you saying that you believe there is an actual, single generation, boundary between “human DNA” and non-human DNA?? (i.e. Adam’s parents did not have “human DNA”??).
@DevilsRavioli My reply to you keeps disappearing so it appears RUclips is glitching. And when this message sticks and I replace it with my reply to you it disappears again. So I will try replying to you in the main comment section.
Thank you.
I was taught evolution and the Big Bank theories in my twelve years of Catholic primary and secondary education.
a. In church and school, I was never told to be weary of these theories. I'm 64.
b. In religion class, it was stressed that God has always been involved in humankind's existence.
c. The Bible was inspired by God, God didn't write it. Most mainframe Christian denomations do not claim the Bible is inherent.
d. Some parts of the Bible are just stories, especially the OT, like Adam and Eve and the Ark and the Great Flood.
e. Please don't lump Catholic schools run by dioceses with other Christian schools. They started around 1900 because, like all immigrants, they were severely discriminated against. Orginally, Catholics were also targets of the KKK.
- They meet or exceed all state standards and testing.
- Religion class is treated like all others like science.
- The schools are pretty progressive. Junior year, religion class was devoted to World religions.
I believe in creation, but also believe that evolution is possible and it may be part of the process of creation and is God driven. And that Adam was the first Man created in his image. Even Genesis shows how God started life with plants, then animals and then man.
🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭
Fun topic but Ed Goble expresses himself as an 8th grader with circular reasoning spiced up with endless “you know” “you know” “right” “right” “kinda” “kinda” “interesting” “interesting” mixed with stammering, halted speech, and cherry picked quotes. For god sake Ed get a public speaking tutor before issuing your Mormon lazy speech slop on RUclips. Practice your improved speech skills in Fast and Testimony meeting.
Im not going to be insulted by yet some other random nameless person on RUclips.
I am unable to alter my manner of speech being an autistic person with a disabiliy
You would do well to learn charity in your words. I am an autistic person unable to alter my manner of speech.
@ so you’re saying you and Ed Goble share the same speech pattern and habits?
I'm saying that I am Ed Goble. And I'm not going to be discouraged against sharing my thoughts on RUclips just because some random overbearing person on RUclips wants to be unkind to people that have overcome a lot just to get barely to the point where they are to be able to function at all in some quasi-normal fashion, let alone taking some kind of speech tharapy, when they can't change their brain structure. Please find some other target to cyber bully. This conversation is over.
@@whitesalamander I am saying that I am Ed Goble. I am saying that I am not going to be discouraged from sharing my thoughts on RUclips, just because of some random, overbearing and unkind person that can't get past the way an autistic person talks. An autistic person can't change brain structure to be able to somehow increase the speed or quality of speech sometimes. So my advice to you is to find a different person on the internet to target if you want to waste time talking to someone.