Canberra vs Gloster Meteor - Air Combat 1956
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- The last time an RAF aircraft was downed in air-to-air combat was surprisingly on a secret mission over Syria in November 1956, in the midst of the infamous Suez Crisis. Find out what happened when the Canberra went head-to-head with the Gloster Meteor in a desperate air battle in the Middle East.
Dr. Mark Felton is a well-known British historian, the author of 22 non-fiction books, including bestsellers 'Zero Night' and 'Castle of the Eagles', both currently being developed into movies in Hollywood. In addition to writing, Mark also appears regularly in television documentaries around the world, including on The History Channel, Netflix, National Geographic, Quest, American Heroes Channel and RMC Decouverte. His books have formed the background to several TV and radio documentaries. More information about Mark can be found at: en.wikipedia.o...
Visit my audio book channel 'War Stories with Mark Felton': • One Thousand Miles to ...
Help support my channel:
www.paypal.me/...
/ markfeltonproductions
Disclaimer: All opinions and comments expressed in the 'Comments' section do not reflect the opinions of Mark Felton Productions. All opinions and comments should contribute to the dialogue. Mark Felton Productions does not condone written attacks, insults, racism, sexism, extremism, violence or otherwise questionable comments or material in the 'Comments' section, and reserves the right to delete any comment violating this rule or to block any poster from the channel.
Credits: RUclips Creative Commons; WikiCommons; Google Commons; Mark Felton Productions; Rob Schleiffert, Mike Freer, Alan Wilson, RuthAS, Jeff Gilbert
Sources: 'Accident - English Electric Canberra PR.7' - aviation-safety.net; 'The Shooting Down of Whiskey Hotel 799' - aerial combat.co.uk.
It feels very strange to hear names such as Damascus, Aleppo, and Homs in contexts not relating to the current civil war- here's to hoping that it ends soon!
Strange, yet proof that there’s nothing new under the sun as the past casts a long shadow. Recall that the previous US regime attempted to hand Egypt over to the Muslim Brotherhood. Also, the Anglo-American Cabal with NATO upended Libya and attempted to do so with Syria until being checked by Russia and a dissenting faction within the US Deep State.
Milton Lee Maybe if NATO and the Gulf countries would stop supporting the “opposition” they could make some progress in ending that war soon.
We can only hope the US destroys what is left on their way out.
@Ricsi bacsi ummm you forgot Russia which literally saved the Syrian dictor from defeat by the US backed opposition!
@@catified2081 US backed opposition never had the numbers to take control. Best they could do was hold the areas that they had captured early on and hope for a political settlement.
The remaining 3 x WB57Fs are in use by NASA today as scientific research aircraft rather than for military purposes.
The Canberra had a service ceiling advantage over the Meteor of about 5,000 feet, but a much slower rate of climb and no speed advantage. Unarmed, attacked from above and caught at relatively low altitude, the British pilot would have had to be both skilled and lucky to evade four Meteors.
The USAF had been using Canberras for high level reconnaissance. It was in the same year of 1956 that these were replaced in that role by the U2, with its much higher service ceiling.
Interesting video. Iirc Rhodesians also used Canberras later on, covering their insane raids would be right up this channels street.
Been waiting for it but I doubt it will happen as footage is relatively sparse.
@@cretansuperbos2121 That's true. But some pictures are out there, some sort of slideshow would work just fine.
Rhodesia. Now there's a blast from the past. What the heck was Rhodesia? Was it named after Cecil Rhodes? Seems like they had a white female President if memory serves. I was a kid at the time.
The true end of Empire...and Eden's climbdown.
An empire maintained at the expense of the Citizenry in the home country, just as with Rome in Antiquity. Watch what happens to “American” empire from this point forward.
What a remarkable channel this is. Thank you!
Thanks
usa- you call that destabilizing the region?....hold my beer
*+leeboy29680*
Yep! Just thought the same...
lol
The region was already destabilized idiot.
Best reply! Pity we, and the French, still follow them in the ME. Think Libya.
In those days it took nations to destabilize, today it´s a one man show. The orange ape is able to set the whole middle east on fire.
the Canberra got its name as an inducement to the Australians to buy and operate the aircraft. The Canberra variants were built in the UK, Australia, and the US. The Canberra was a great aircraft and used very effectively by Australia during the Vietnam War. The last Australian MIA from Vietnam were located in 2009 in the wreckage of a Canberra which had come down down in mountains over the Vietnam/Laos border. It is not known whether it crashed due to weather and terrain or was shot down. The aircraft had disappeared from radar following night bombing in the Da Nang region.
Designed as a high level bomber the Australians in Vietnam transitioned it into a very accurate low level ground support bomber. As the American Canberra’s had very different capabilities and different roles, the Australian Canberras were flown in support of American troops as well as ANZACs. American aircraft tended to use a ‘dive’ tactic meaning that their effectiveness could be curtailed by low cloud cover and not being able to see targets until below the clouds while the Canberras were able to attack from level flight below the clouds at 350 knots at 800 feet and could acquire targets from sufficient distance to hit targets with a 20 meter circle of accuracy. This required a rapid climb from the blast zone in the intention of outrunning the fragmentation envelope but several aircraft and some crew were hit by shrapnel. Although the Canberra’s only flew 5% of all bombing sorties in South Vietnam, they were responsible for 16% of all bombing damage to the enemy.
Between 1967 and 1971 Australian Canberras were flying an average of 8 sorties a day each, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from the Australian base in Butterworth, Malaysia, and from Phan Rang in South eastern Vietnam on missions across South Vietnam. In the battle of Khe Sanh there were about 550 sorties both day and night in the first 24 hours, with the bomber density meaning that Canberras were ‘stacked’ with up to 30 or 40 other aircraft of various types waiting to make their ‘run’. One Canberra was shot down over Khe Sanh when a missile blew its right wing off. The crew ejected and survived.
The aircraft were remarkably reliable. Service crews had an extraordinary 97% serviceability rating during this period. To reach 8 sorties a day per aircraft, maintenance crews operated two 12 hour shifts. During the war Australian Canberra’s flew over 12,000 sorties and dropped over 76,000 bombs. This well loved aircraft was replaced in the RAAF by the F1-11 in the 1970’s. The Australian built and operated Canberra’s saw action in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam during a 29 year service life.
(Info from University NSW, RAAF, and Wikipedia)
As always Mark you have fed my love of 20th century history and informed me of amazing facts. To think 3 Canberra’s are still in service today is nuts !!
The daily delivery of such a high quality content is astonishing. Thank you Mark
Another great video.
"serious questioning" typical British understatement meaning torture.
You,sir,are a breath of fresh air. Your videos are of the type I used to watch The History Channel for. Now it is all reality TV (and not my type of reality.either). Keep up the good work.
5:40 Technically speaking, the Canberra loss was not due to an air to air combat, but an interception. Canberra has not weapons for fighting.
Suez was a fine example of the old maxim that countries don't have friends only interests .
People today think that the US and UK are joined at the hip but the UK watched the American disaster in Vietnam with disinterest despite US pleas for British involvement largely because of Suez.
France has always exercised a certain detachment from the US since Suez .
Israel realised that the only country worth making the effort to be close to is the US because of Suez
The reason the British went to war with Nassa was two fold . One , he asked for a large amount of money to built a large damn on the Nile. But refused to open the books for inspection . It was thought a lot of the money was going into private hands as bribes . And two that he had ambitions to be a new Hitler.
Britain was buzy in Malaya, Borneo, Kenya, Aden...etc etc....Vietnam was a French hobby.
British Commonwealth countries Australia & New Zealand fought in Vietnam.
@Steve Wall Don't start with that USS LIberty drivel. I was an American sailor before switching to the US Army. I've seen first hand how confused things can be in normal times, let alone when the country is at war. What happened with the Liberty was a tragic accident, just like when the British accidentally killed hundreds of American soldiers rehearsing for the Normandy landings, or when US air support has attacked British and Canadian ground units. The only real explanation for your obsession with the Liberty is as justification for your blatant anti-Semitism.
Always nice to find a channel with more obscure history and aircraft.
Thanks for this. My dad was 208 Squadron at Akrotiri during Suez. They were using Meteors still but I didn't know the Syrians were. Also the first time I've seen historic footage of Meteors in video. Quite the treat. Cheers.
Nice! Canberras were used by the Rhodesian Air Force for photo reconnaissance and Combat Air Support in the 1970's. Prop Geldenhuiys recounts in his book *Rhodesian Air Force Operations* that, unlike the Hawker Hunter and the DeHavilland Vampire, the Canberras were slow to respond to control changes, and that trainers told new pilots "Don't try fast turns like you are flying a bloody fighter!"
The Canberra is named after a Australian City it's a Aboriginal word meaning meeting place
The middle east has always been trouble
I reckon Eisenhower pulled the rug from under Britain because we didn't support the USA's proposed intervention in French Indo China to help the besieged garrison at Dien Bien Phu. As foreign minister, Eden had been particularly critical of Eisenhower and John Foster Dulles over America's foreign policy, and Suez was the perfect opportunity for Ike to get his revenge on Eden, who was by now prime minister.
01:02 The Irony of the Americans being worried about destabilizing a region and ordering a withdraw. This made me chuckle given the US's military intervention over the last 7 decades.
Indeed
At this point, Bretton Woods was still robust with the dollar supreme, the bluff of its “gold” backing had yet to be called. Otherwise, the US would have likely joined the British and French. Increased US disruption in the Near East positively correlates to petrodollar enforcement.
I get what you're saying and agree with it. But remember this was during the cold war! The Soviets were ready to intervene on behalf of the Egyptians. It would have let to a nuclear war between the USA and USSR!
You can't destabilize the region. Only I can do that.
ThatPommieGuy, are you British?
I thought Eisenhower told the British Prime Minister to get out of the Suez or he would crash the British pound.
And what have we learned today? You cannot be careful enough to whom you sell your old weapons.
Eik listed the non support of France and Britain in the Suez one of his biggest mistakes as president.
Whoever designed the Canberra was not only an artist but an intuitive physicist. The lines are just right the shape and size of the wings are just the right size. It just has a wonderful efficient symmetry to it.
No he didn't.
3:40 I didn't know this. Would love to hear more about the Gloster meteor F8 and their contribution during World War II please
Excellent
Awsome vid Mark! Can you maybe do a video about the kv2 at raseiniai? Thank you :)
Very interesting history Mark! Tanks for share!!! Greetings from Denamark!
Eisenhower later called not supporting the British and French his "biggest mistake".
Really?
Toby McElhinney Can you provide a reference for that please?
rightly so.
Ike was pissed that the British and French took the spot light away from the Revolt going on in Hungarian Revolution
@@normanboyes4983 interesting article here... www.thetower.org/article/we-are-still-living-with-eisenhowers-biggest-mistake-suez-egypt-israel-ikes-gamble-michael-doran/
Incredible, thank you for sharing
The United States getting mad about someone destabilizing the Middle East, oh the irony.
Fascinating - I knew nothing of this. Thank you.
What an immensely interesting channel this is.
I like Ike! I was only two years old in 1956, but I now regard the Suez Crisis as much of an existential threat as the Cuban Missile Crisis. Either way, dead at 2 years of age, or dead at 8 years of age.
A most interesting story indeed , with the Clash of two fine British built Jets over Syrian Skies!
an unarmed bomber vs an armed fighter jet
what a combat
I remember having a chat with a Canberra pilot at RAF Fairford about 20 years ago. Nice chap. When I asked his background, he told me he came from flying Puma helicopters to then flying the Canberra which I thought was interesting. Seemingly, not all Canberra pilots came from the fast jet world.
In Israel this 1956 war is known to this day as "Mivtza kadesh" (Operation kadesh, after the biblical city of Kadesh-Barne'a near the current Israel-Egypt border). The triple "conspiracy" is rarely if ever discussed and it is seen as a necessary defensive war to stop terrorists from Eqypt (the "Fadayun", who were a real threat). The military victory was considered so great (before the Americans forces Israel to retreat from the Sinai desert) that the prime minister of Israel at that time, Davin Ben-Gurion, proclaimed to the parliament in a speech the establishing of "Israel's third kingdom". The occasion of the war was taken advantage of by some military commanders to enact a curfew on parts of the Arabic-Palestinian population in Israel, which led to the horrible Kfar-Qassem massacre.
Very interesting indeed! I was kind of disappointed by the lack of information on the conspiracy by the three countries. Also no mention of the Soviet involvement in that war.
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty massacre at the hands of Israeli psychopaths. Ben Gurion was Theodore Hertzl's wet dream. And a war criminal many times over by any modern standard.
I never knew this story.. appreciate the video
Something new again! Excellent stuff.
Thanks
US- "How dare you destabilize a region without me!"
Syria has been a bad place for centuries. Don't think I would want to be there
It’s unenviable being a province located between the Western and Eastern Roman Empires and their successors. The rise of Islam and its proliferation through invasion further complicated and burdened the lives of the people living in what had been Roman Syria.
Back in the 60s, 70s and 80s they were the big powerhouse of the Middle East. The present leaders father, Hafez al-Assad, was in control for much of that time. It was Bashar al-Assad's brother who was supposed to have taken control from his father but he died so Bashar took control. The problem was Bashar was not trained to the job which is why Syria in no the way it is. When the Arab Spring happened in Syria he totally over reacted and that is why it is now falling apart.
JOE Vandeleur it was a shit hole long before that even
JOE Vandeleur Go f*ck yourself you Orientalist douchebag.
@@bigblue6917 I call Bullshit on your lies here. He didnt over react, wtf, the US funded and armed the Arab spring it was supposed to be a covert CIA, OP, they wanted to topple assad that way, it had been part of the 7 countries in 5 years wars, to over throw regimes and implement American backed regimes.
The Canberra is used definitely still used by the US. I spotted one in a hanger in Kandahar about 3-4 years ago that I initially mistook for a U2. Officially it was a WB57 operated by NASA, but why a NASA aircraft was parked in a hanger in a war zone is anybodies guess.
They were there looking for something which is likely why the US is still in Afghanistan. The poppy crop is important yet it may not be the primary reason for US presence. Rather, it could be a means to facilitate a desired end.
It's a BACN mission. www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2012/09/air-force-universal-translator/amp
Don't forget the hyphen. It's WB-57.
@@beetooex Great link mate, thanks for clearing that up.
@@beetooex How dare he call the Canberra ugly!
Suez Crisis was France and Britain’s last attempt at preserving their empires, although in truth both Empires died in 1940. Not on the battlefields, but in the accounting books. The US financed both nations war against Nazi Germany knowing full well that the ultimate cost would be the dismantling of their respective empires. Until Suez, Britain and France held out hope that they could recover,. After Suez, they stood revealed as US vassal states. In case anyone wonders why Americans aren’t held in higher esteem for “Saving your asses in WW 2!”
The yanks backed the French 2 years earlier in Vietnam which they saw it as an anti-communist campaign. There interest was Saudi oil and wouldn't back an attack on an Arab state. In1953 the CIA led, on Britain's request, the over-through of Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh and the return of the Shah. The Saudi's even at this time didn't like/trust Shiite Iran.
Christian Unger the US economy ballooned as a result supplying the original ‘Allies’ of WW 1, financially Britain would have been best staying out of WW 1, however at the end of the Napoleonic wars Britain guaranteed the neutrality of Belgium in order to preserve peace in Europe, and Germany invaded Belgium in 1914 (the US contribution to the Napoleonic wars was to invade Canada and get chased out).
a good looking plane. The Brits should build it again. The Americans should have supported the Israelis, Brits and the French.
No
A vid on the Greek resistance would be good. They has so many Germans tied up at one point it made the invasion of Italy etc less difficult than it might have been.
And the americans wonder why Britain refused to help in Vietnam.......
Nicely dine Mark.👍
Norman Boyes - Bon appetite!
I was 11 years old when the Canberra took off from RAF Akrotiri on its fateful mission.
I was 20 years old and in the RAF, when I spent a 2.5 year tour at Akrotiri 1965-1967.
We had the 'Lightnings' doing their dawn and evening patrols, doing their vertical take offs and 06:00 and 18:00hrs.
Being in signals, our 'comcen' building was beside the airfield, so had a great view of them taking off on their patrols.
Noisy blighters, but great fun to watch them scoot straight up using their after burners on full reheat.
Didn't see many Canberras though because they were too sneaky....:)
Good thing to not get involved in anymore israeli wars
1973?
Just wait for the islamists to come to you...i can live with that.
Syrious questioning
Thanks for the post. The US "outstripped Britain as the world's leading power" in 1945 as evidenced by the two nuclear weapons used against Japan.
USA: hey Britain and France please stop destabilising that region because that's my job
You Should also made videos on 1965 war PAF stories....
Your fotage are nicely synchronise with the narratif,well done mate!!
Thanks - its the time consuming part!
I can imagine,and many thank's !!
The irony of it all. Now if Airfix would just re-release their 1/72 canberras.......
*+Mark Felton Productions*
Thank you! That was really interesting ...
This is like your own dog biting you,shot down by a plane you made and sold to a potential enemy.
I did not know about this...to be intercepted by the Egyptian AF, the Canberra crew must have been on Serapax K-rations..
First wiew it is good
The Soviets also threatened to use missiles and possibly nukes against France, UK or Isreal.
Their doctrine assumed that USA wouldn't use nukes on behalf of NATO's other members.
Your channel is nothing short of *_EXCELLENT_* It would be VERY okay with me if you made the videos MUCH longer. =)
You pulled a rabbit out of a hat for this one, Totally awsome vid.
Lesson:- Don't poke nose in other's house.. unfortunately this is habit of western countries
Epic History has a great video on the Suez Crisis btw.
MARK: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? WE STILL HAVE CANBERRA'S IN SERVICE? WITH DRONES AND SATELITES AND WE RETIRED THE U-2'S AND SR-71. WHAT WOULD WE USE THEM FOR? I GET AIR MAGS EVERY OTHER MONTH AND NEVER HEARD THAT ONE. GOOD VIDEO
charlotte mace - U.S-operated RB-57 Canberras have been operating out of Djibouti quite recently. Photos and videos are out there.
at least they were returned after some Syria's questioning
What a stunning looking aircraft!... Of course I am talking about the Canberra.
During war games the US was annoyed that Canberras could operate higher then the F-4's defending the carriers. Then Canberra pilots got a shock when F-14's started doing vertical passes and they needed an actual plan to attack rather than overflying the fighter screen.
I remember my grandfather talking about losing alot of money when he had sent a boat load of his apples from tasmania to egypt that went rotten on the boat because the boat wasn't aloud up the Suez canal
im consistently amazed at the great content on this channel
You seem to be fond of British equipment going against British equipment huh...
Not at all, but it just so happens that a lot of people we ended up fighting had been supplied with British equipment by previous governments!
Yes, like the government-sanctioned postwar technology transfer of Rolls-Royce jet-engine technology to the Soviet Union, benefiting the MiG-15. Another example of the Anglo-American Cabal’s proclivity to build up adversaries.
thought it was Canberra, AU vs a real meteor wtf
Did the Meteor engage in combat during WW2? Also, how was it’s performance compared to British, American, and German fighters of the time?
It was deployed, but had very little air to air combat. It was mainly used to shoot down V1s (Flying bombs). A small number were deployed in Belgium and destroyed German aircraft on the ground in ground attack missions, but no reliably confirmed air to air 'kills' recorded. The MK1 was comparable in speed to the fastest piston engine fighters and the MK 3 a bit faster, they were able to maintain a higher speed at higher altitudes, too, but they were less manoeuvrable and tricky to handle. The early versions used in WW2 were not the best performing aircraft, although the MK 3 was among the fastest. The aircraft improved greatly after the end of the war, but was soon outdated as more modern designs came along.
1956. A bad year for the Empire.
RAF operations are interesting but never knew about this one . Why oh why didn't that Canberra pilot dive instead of climb, gain speed and try and make it to the Med ? The Meteor's would struggle to close on the Canberra in a stern chase.
Haha omg, as American, i couldnt but laugh when he said "america was mad they were destabilizing the region" when we pretty much fucked over the entire middle east less than 50 years later. But, i also understand their disapproval as the cold war was still raging so any destabilization in the world had massive consequences
Gb an the french should have stood up to the yanks
They weren’t in a position to do so, as their governments had effectively handed the US world-reserve currency status prior to WWII’s end. The destruction wrought during the first half of the 20th Century rendered both as clients of postmodern “American” empire.
Fuck you anti-American prick.
JamesMacPlays UK was is deep dept to USA following WWII, Dwight, threatened to pull the plug on the money. The UK government folded and has been so to this day.
They owed the US too much money WWII and all that y'know.
Oh boy, the amount of comments talking about us Americans destabilizing shit. Other countries have done more and worse
Nice video! It's all to easy to forget how past actions are related to current issues. Also, I didn't realize the UK had jet fighters in WW2. Most documentaries imply it was only Germany that had jet technology
I think the Meteor only shot down flying bombs during WW2. It wasn't as fast as the German jets at the time.
You clearly never heard of Frank Wittle....everyone knew this 30 years ago, before history was removed from school curriculum and replaced with ..."gender studies"....and native rights.
Glad I found your channel; your content is outstanding!
another valuable nugget of information from our military history - excellent stuff
Thanks
The British should have left N.A.T.O. in response to the Americans. They should never have let themselves be ordered around like that.
Was the US right to intervene? Or did their intervention cause problems later down the line? I don't know much about this part of history.
The RAF used to send a regular Mosquito over Israel until the IAF managed to down one, maybe in 1949, can't recall. Anyway, not always a "milk run".
The RAF lost aircraft in the Falkland islands and elsewhere afterwards
What if the British said no
I built a model of this as a kid in the late 60's. Most boring one I ever built. I still like researching them. Their starting procedures, and variants. Bully great aircraft.
Love your videos but I cringe every time you call a gas turbine a jet
Argentina also used Canberras to bomb British positions during night raids from mid to late Falkland War, with limited success. A few Canberras were shot down by the British.
The Canberra was huge influence and basics for the SR-71
The Canberra was arguably the best PR platform ever. Very stable and agile it just needed more ooomph. It was only finally retired when satellites rendered it unnecessary.
So basically the Uk and France has Egypt under martial law for awhile there?
It was believed that the Canberra was so fast for its day, that no defensive armament was necessary. It should have been able to outrun a Meteor, perhaps it was carrying too much weight on that flight, or was getting low on fuel.
Yes, if all other variables had been the same. A Meteor with altitude advantage and in a fortuitous position could most likely dive (and by diving get extra speed) on a Canberra and get into a position to fire.
you should do a few longer documentaries a month... "Seven Days to the River Rhine" maybe....
The Canberra reminds me of a Mosquito, and the Meteor of a Me 262.
The Canberra was the replacement for the Mosquito
@@MarkFeltonProductions The design specs must have been: jet engines, no more plywood, and nothing crazy - something in our comfort zone.
Talk about Canberras used by Argentineans against British forces in Falklands.
I never knew of this. Thank you.
GG Sadat. Like it was totally ok to nationalize Suez channel and blockade all maritime trafic for Israel.