*Footnote 1* It’s important to note here that even if you’re not a utilitarian, almost all ethical paradigms hold that actions can be moral that are not violent, including natural rights ethics. It seems Carl is conflating the question “Is this act immoral” with the question “should this act be coerced against by the state?” But we can all come up with actions that people are free to do that are morally better or worse than other actions (even if you only believe in subjective morality). Consider giving to a charity for sick kids versus buying something that will help no one. Certainly, both actions should be legal in a capitalist nation, but the first action is pretty clearly the morally superior one. *Footnote 2* I thought I’d speak a bit about how why I think it’s reasonable to make the claim “science can’t disprove that art affects people.” It seems that Carl and many of the people who like Carl are under the impression that science, what we might define as the formalized process of experimentation in order to discover facts about the world, has a monopoly on the way we come into real knowledge. This, however, is clearly not the case. Imagine that a scientific study came out that said “People do not see the color blue.” Well, we might read the article and it might have some interesting findings about how the color blue functions, but no matter what, the article could never disprove that people see blue. It is objectively true that we have the experience of seeing that color. This claim is similar to a hypothetical scientific article claiming that media does not affect people-- there is simply an insurmountable amount of evidence against that being possible. Not only do I have memories of media affecting me both emotionally and intellectually, but also, every single person I have ever met would say the same. Moreover, the existence of advertising, the existence of religious texts exist that inform people’s faith, the fact that my video had a clear causal relationship to Carl making his, these are all objective facts that cannot, and could not, be disproved via experimentation. *Footnote 3* So, I felt a bit of conflict here, saying that he uses the argument here as evidence for his conclusion that, “no moral critique of art can be grounded,” since he never explicitly says that. But frankly, it’s something we have to assume. Since he doesn’t think that we can make grounded moral claims about the messages of media, and since he uses the argument in this section to disagree with me about my position that Lubenshluben provides evidence of our ability to make such claims, we have to think that, at the very least, he thinks his argument here is pushing toward his conclusion. *One Additional (and maybe important) Note* In my video at one point, I say "In Sargon's mind, Anita Sarkeesian is trying to exert her will and he's trying to exert his," and this has led a few of you to point out that yes, Sarkeesian clearly does want to influence the video game industry. I could have spoken a bit more carefully here. What I meant is not that Sarekeesian does not want to influence things, but that, for her, interpretation is not *exclusively* a matter of influence. The observations she makes of Double Dragon here are reasonably well grounded, they are not true or false, good or bad, by virtue of Anita's desire to exert power and she never implies otherwise. Where Sargon constitutes the entire thrust of his argument with his preference for certain interpretations over others, Sarkeesian does not. *I thought I'd also take a moment to talk about some of the more minor, incorrect claims that Carl makes over the course of his video.* At one point, he says that art cannot be inherently meaningful, that art is just objects and that objects do not have any inherent meaning. I think Carl has forgotten here one of the most important preconditions of art: That it was made, most likely by a person. This fact makes it literally impossible for any work of art to be meaningless--it will always have, at one point, been meaningful to the person who made it. Toward the end of his video, Carl says that Lubenshluben cannot be evil because films are objects, not moral agents. It seems obviously untrue that only moral agents are the only things that can be evil, since actions can also be evil. For example, a murderer might be evil, but the act of murdering is also frequently described as an evil one. And make no mistake, Lubenshluben *is* an action. It was brought into existence by people who wanted to bring it into existence. As such, Lubenshluben is the sort of thing that can be evil.This was a very silly and pedantic point. Finally, Carl returns in his video to the untrue idea that it is impossible for video games to be causing violent action *while* the murder rate goes down. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's evidence that video games cause violence, but it's important to note that society is filled with confounding variables. It is not impossible for various social changes to cause less crime overall, while video games, a relatively minor aspect of most people's lives, causes them to go up. *Oh, and Sargon, if you're reading this,* My offer is still open to have a text conversation that we can make public at any time. I don’t think some live discussion would be nearly as productive. I understand that you like live conversations and the like, but I just prefer to work more meticulously. Feel free to ask any questions about my video! Thanks for reading my novel.
I'm of the complete opposite opinion on moral agents compared to Carl. I am not particularly convinced that a human being who makes moral choices should ever be considered good, evil, right, wrong. I don't think that a human being can inherently contain these properties. Rather, when I think about it, I can only possibly attribute properties like right and wrong, good and bad, harmful or beneficial - to ideas, objects, actions, systems. I cannot possibly know nor prove whether Hitler was an evil *person*. I wouldn't know how to ever prove that Hitler's *body and brain*, that his very person, was evil. Rather, I can only describe Hitler as having been evil by pointing towards his actions, towards the systems he put in place, towards his ideas and words. I could only ever suggest that the Person named Adolf Hitler was an Evil Person in a roundabout way by pointing towards all of these things that were NOT his person. So yeah, I think that sargon's claim that the film must be an acting moral agent is literally attributing morality to something that cannot contain inherent morality. Human beings are just flesh and blood with meat computers in our skulls.
Big Joel My problem with Anita is her impact on the stories of games like Anthem and COD WW2. She isn’t only a critic. She holds some of the “means of production” if you want to call them that. I’m not claiming your a Communist. I was just being tongue and cheek.
For the video you were looking for, Quinton Reviews did it over on his channel in between segments of an increasingly unhinged dissertation on Raid: Shadow Legends ^^
Et tu, Et tu, Vi? Sorry, had to make a joke with your name, but yeah, me too. I was expecting a video about some Mesopotamian and got a video about someone who's views would probably fit in ancient Mesopotamia. Who am I kidding, from the little I know about that dude he's probably even too retrograde for Mesopotamia. And you know what? Forget about he, I'm gonna refer to them as they, since that would probably piss them off.
I disagree that nazi's are bad. They are evil. They are worse than people who, due to their human weakness, occasionally act immorally. And due to their collective actions their aggregate evilness is multiplied and many correctly considered them a great evil. I disagree that Feminism is bad purely because feminism is an ideology. It does not have free will, it has no agency and can't make moral decisions. CB is a philosopher for toddlers.
The moment when Sargon tries to asset his masculinity on a man he views as weak and then gets completely bent over by an honest man's discussion is probably the best part of this video.
I really loved this video but it created a massive problem! I left the Anti-esjayuu vortex almost 2 years ago and the RUclips algorithm had adapted to my new, healthier way of life by purging those assholes from my recommended but because of this video, my recommended is full of Sargon's shit. I wanna die!!!!
Good idea, dude! "DESTROYED WITH CARE AND ATTENTION" or something along that line needs to be out there. It would raise the cringe level of "DESTROYED BY FACTS AND LOGIC" even more.
@@Gooong He cares that what he likes and believes is being challenged. His argument against progressive ideas is all too often "there is no problem because it has always been this way, and I'VE never noticed an issue." He says it without a hint of irony, like it's completely sound logic.
it gets even more ironic when you realize he named himself after the ruler of a culture known to celebrate sadism towards it's political enemies. Sargon was the dude who praised himself, in stone, for making defeated enemies live the rest of their lives literally chained up in dog cages just because, well, he was stronger than them.
I recommend laying your phone face-down while listening - you’ll still have a raging erection, but enough blood will remain in your brain to take in the information
I second this, my girlfriend caught me watching this and now not only is she subbed to big Joel herself but she can’t stop talking about how cute he is and trying to get me to buy Joel sweaters so I look more like him. While I didn’t really think about it much before, I now strongly object to this kind of reckless posting of such overtly sexual video content on RUclips! Edit: spellcheck keeps forcefully correcting me because it doesn’t understand that it’s a big dumb dumb and I’m a big smart smart. I know what I’m doing, spellcheck! Stop trying to stifle me!
Sargon is the ultimate status quo warrior. He doesn't care about the substance of people's critiques, he cares that they have critiques at all. He's so aggressively anti intellectual it's actually fascinating.
Let’s be serious Sargon was the kid that didn’t go into A.P. classes but he claimed to be taking actual college course or because the teacher was a Marxist.
Sargon of Akkad, the guy who has been ranting on and on about Sarkeesian for years, pushed Gamergate, and has been the biggest contributor to anti Sarkeesian videos doesnt care about her.... Consider me skeptical..
Haha do women really think they will ever get an upper hand? That's delusional. Sargon is a talking strawman. And that is all feminism is able to beat.
Sargon's tactic when he gets cornered or called out on misrepresenting something or just being straight up wrong is to exclaim "I don't care!" or "There is no reason to care!" Exclaiming "Who cares?!" _IS_ his argument.
My brother does this. He's always thought of himself as some kind of a brilliant debate tactician just because he can reduce everything down to broad navel gazing pseudo philosophy about the natural uncertainty and subjectivity of reality. Often the next step to "winning" the argument is by nihilistically proclaiming meaningless to everything. And so they conclude with smug satisfaction in supposedly being "right" for having the "best argument" even though by logical extension of their worldview their own argument is meaningless by default; leaving no reason to take satisfaction in it.
Oh yes the famous, "I don't Care." Every single time, I've even called him out of it and he said that's not true. He doesn't care about climate change, or solutions to sexual harassment, or race, or media representation, or feminisim, or SJW, or anything. Ergo he's never wrong about anything, because, who cares?
So I used to watch a lot of these anti-sjw videos and the point of "I dont care" is simply that Sargon and the others dont see the value in what Anita is saying. Some points that Sargon and others have made is that Anita's time would be better spent using her resources/influence trying to effect change with real issues,such as the mistreatment of women in the middle east. She made many thousands of dollars and used that money to attack gamers/developers. Really? Damsel in distress is perpetuating the patriarchy? So I should ignore a woman in need of help? Anita is an absurd person with some (not all) of the arguments she makes, and i've met the type. One time some crazy feminist got angry with me because I held a friggin door for her?? Like wtf? She actively made my day worse even though i was clearly trying to do somthing nice. I now disagree with Sargon on most things, but on this issue there is clearly a loud annoying minority of people who seem to have the sole objective of tearing people down and playing the victim. The sad thing is Anita could effect change. But no, VIDEO GAMES BAD!!
greenbay champ There's a term for what you are suggesting. It's called a "whataboutism." Look irregardless of how much you feel Anita is an "evil person", she more then allowed to say what she damn well wants and focus on what she damn well please as much as Sargon is allowed to whine endless about how Anita doesn't care about woman in the Middle East rather then worry about that himself. Either you can debate them on their on points they have made, or you can shut the fuck up. And how do you even know she doesn't care about the woman in the Middle East? What's your proof of it beyond the fact that she mostly focuses her channel on talks about media and not on other things? We are allowed to talk about multiple things in this world. We don't have to be forced to talk about things you deem as "more important." Because in the end it would be so easy for me to come back at you and say "why worry about the people in the Middle East when the climate is changing?" or "why worry about climate change when people are dying of famine?" It doesn't disprove anything she has said, nor does this talk about how "evil" or "crazy" she and other feminist are. That's why Sargon fails. That's why anti-feminist fail.
Sargon says this but he looks like a complete sack of shit compared to Joel, who looks much handsome, physically. Carlgon has some clear self-image issues about himself he's covering with his faux-nationalism.
I like how Anita's point was that storytelling is shaped by patriarchal attitudes and the perceptions of men dominating most forms of storytelling, and then Carl accidentally agrees with her while thinking that he's taking a position that refutes her point. He's so damn dumb, folks.
Reminds me of that Jordan Peterson talk of him "debunking" marxism by repeating Marx's own argument against egalitarianism almost verbatim. Right-wingers are really into the "I don't have to read this shit" school of political philosophy.
nobody thinks fiction exists in a vaccuum :S that's an extremists twist on normal liberal rhetoric... why would you do that? i'm assuming you're liberal?
@@hybridh9702 and nobody said that anybody *consciously* thinks and claims fiction exists in a vacuum... Why would you assume that? The point is that in order for the arguments to work, fiction needs to exist in a vacuum. This isn't about reading anyone's mind, this is about analyzing their words. I don't know what Sargon actually thinks, I only know what he says and what he claims. (And pretty much every fan is going to be a liberal.)
over simplifying complex history so you can stand on a moral pedastool... the act of chivalry was from a oppressive culture so it in itself must be oppressive... yeah 'cos things work like that and culture is that simple. fucking extremist
Right? Joel ain't a big boy but he's definitely a man. Funny how warped people's idea of masculinity is these days but I suppose it's cause a lot of proponents for masculinity these days think being left is inherently feminine lol
Seriously, a guy who comes off as a prissy character actor playing an effete waiter who gets flustered by Lucy Ricardo should not be talking about others unfortunate masculinity service- whatever the fuck that is
27:05 Did Sargon really just say “disliking nazi propaganda is a political bias” and “Anita sarkeesian is bad for the same reason nazi propaganda is bad” in the same paragraph?
I think he will watch it, but not in its entirety, because he does tend to skip around and not absorb a person's entire argument before dismissing it. Hopefully he proves us wrong, but for the love of god don't hold your breath.
How on earth is Big Joel "not well served by masculinity"? He absolutely is, in my view. 10/10, would ask out for coffee, would leave an awkward comment on his YT channel.
Yeah. He's more feminine then most (which isn't a bad thing, femboys deserve all the love, y'all are sweethearts) but he's still most Definetly masculine in a ton of ways. (The way he presents himself, etc.) 10/10 what a cutie.
Dexter Badger AJ What does effeminate even mean anymore? I FEEL “effeminate”, yet I work out, served in Marine infantry for 8 years, and my ideal GoT character isn Bobby B. No one can tell that I am effeminate at heart, but yet I am. I need a strict definition of the word, is what I’m saying
Even if this were true... He's starting by admitting that men who don't live up to some masculine ideal in our society have a hard time. Isn't that an admission that, yes, our society does favor masculinity and/or force gender roles on us?
Sargon suffers from the lazy response video formula. Where he records himself reacting to a video sentence by sentence. So he will miss points being built up in a paragraphs and pages. He'll complain that there's no forest because of all the trees in the way. They are always tedious videos where it takes hours to get through a few minutes of video to critique.
The most bizarre thing though is, at least to a very easily-swayed mushbrain like me . . . it's kind of compelling. Like, Sargon is obviously a fucking moron, but he *sounds* smart enough if you're not paying too close attention. Like if you don't notice that he's doing the sentence-by-sentence trick, you might think some of his discrete points have merit, and start nodding along. There were a couple times where I was like "well, I guess so . . ." before Joel smacked me in the face with his polite, soft-spoken common sense and I realized I was being played.
Whenever someone responds to something I post with a granular sentence-by-sentence critique, I go "you know, this is not my idea of a good time" and peace out. It's exhausting and pointless talking that way!
@@silvertamagachi Reminds me of my first reaction to James B. Peterson, they aren't the same _kind_ of compelling until you listen to someone else, and then insine, (wel obviously their pushing the same views in a lot of ways, and both going for a kind of authoritative masculinity, but jordan is much more intensely post-modern.)
The nice effect that comes from it is when they go to the next sentence and realise, midway ranting, how they just cornered themselves. Like when Joel is finishing the Lubensluben rhetoric and he cuts right before Joel gets to the point of the thought experiment. Then, on continuing the video, he sees that he needs to back down on his argument, but instead he chooses to go full gas and says "well fuck it, you can say nazism is bad, so I can say feminism is bad".
Sargon: Anita Sarkeesian shouldn't criticize video games because they aren't harmful, and you shouldn't criticize things that aren't harmful. Also Sargon: It's okay for me to criticize Anita's videos, even though I don't think they're harmful. Uh, what?
@@justabitofamug6989 well if he thinks that he should motivate his hown opinion on facts : What makes feminism like cancer ? Else he is just terrorised of somenthing for no reasons , he is feministphobic ... That would be like me making videos covering how dogs are evil just because i am afraid of dogs , it's in my rights of free speech but ... Should i ??? Also that gives wind to the pepole pepole that are calling me a pussy ... Because dogs/feminist aren't harmful to society ...
@Feli Aslan yeah , i mean that theory could work : There is this video from innuendo studios that talks about how rightwingers percive the world , And they basically see it as hierarchies , in this case as men above women , And they would percive feminism as flipping that hierarchy , it would men at the bottom women at the top , And therefore whenever he debates feminism , which by the better understood version of the term means seeking equality for both genders , There is this weird dissociation between what we say and what he responds with ... Besides as someone who recovered from being alt-right i think that feminism needs a model for masculinity made by men for men which maybe women can veto if it's too sexist ... But yeah this is just my opinion ...
late to the party but joel is attractive and not even because his contents good and his opinions are good, but bc hes physically attractive like hmu daddy
2016: Carl joins UK fascist party 2017: Carl continues hanging out with the nazis from his gg days and invites in people who have recently turned nazi-friendly 2018: Carl says there's nothing wrong with nazi propaganda
@@Orson2usigh, I'll bite: Then, I don't know if you've seen the evidence. So, why leave this comment? With no details? Examples of being specific: Like, how many Sargon videos have you seen? Have you seen clips from streams when he says things and interacts with people? He's online 24/7 (right now under a fake Twitter as usual) and interacting with other people online constantly. Have you seen his interviews with British TV that he unfortunately had to do, as he actually became a politician? A UKIP member - do you know what that means? There. Edit: at least we got to watch Carl crash and burn as a politician. I wouldn't care about him if he wasn't like, fucking insane, and messaging people online 24/7. Like, holy shit, the amount of space Caarl has filled with his trash comments and messages, has forced everyone to stop caring about him. It's actually pretty crazy in hindsight. He is on Twitter and tweeting nonstop like on a bender, and it's honestly concerning. (date, 12/1/20) Hope he gets off the internet at some point and takes a break.
> Spreads the Cultural Bolshevism conspiracy theory > Has off-handedly defended Frankfurt School conspiracy theories > Believes in the Great Replacement, and said white women have an obligation to produce more offspring > Heavily nationalist and traditionalist etc.
I watched the Alt-Right Playbook a few days ago and, boy oh boy, did I recognise a lot of things in Sargon's rhetoric: the stanislavski opinion, the «card says moops» thing, the incoherent viewpoint. Great case to dissect!
@@manidavis4126 I'm assuming you mean the vidcon thing? No, Sargon didn't literally assault her, but you gotta admit he was being an asshole. Provocation online is one thing, meeting her in real life is another. I'd feel threatened if I was her.
Cheybat Shrinking into a cob of corn sounds a bit too sophisticated for Sargon. He’ll probably just chuckle smuggy then livestream himself calling this Joel fellow a groomer.
Sargon doesn't care about facts. He used a couple pictures from matriarchal societies to try to make a point that matriarchy doesn't get "results," but if you read the article he got it from, it says they've been doing fine for some five thousand years without needing to change. No other human civilization has ever been able to be that sustainable. He took it out of context and expected us not to read it.
Often times, the sources that right-wingers throw at you often debunk their own talking points. It's debunked inside of the body of the source, not the tittle of course; which is why they always miss it.
RemixedVoice I know this is an old comment, but I just have to respond because it’s so relevant to a ‘conversation’ earlier today. A man was attempting to prove that he’s, in fact, fine with trans people, and his only issue was ‘when they start taking my rights’. As an example of this he stated, unprompted, that it’s illegal to misgender someone in California. I live in California so I was like what the fuck, source please? Cos that’s obviously not a thing. So he tried and failed to post a link, and when it didn’t go through he posted a screenshot of his google page. The SECOND article was Fox News- “California now forces jail time for misgendering”. But the FIRST ARTICLE was Politifact, “Headlines mislead about California forcing jail time for misgendering”. It was a truly, wholly, glorious moment.
sargon: you can only criticize something if it has violent consequences sargon: "i honestly don't think feminist frequency is causing people to do bad things either" also sargon: *spends a lot of time criticizing feminst frequency* it makes no sense at all but at least he admits at the end that it's fully arbitray and not about facts and logic at all. just his ability to believe something out of sheer will.
I never really cared about Anita Sarkeesian or Sargon, yet this is still one of my favorite Big Joel videos because of the shrimp anecdote and for gracing us with the phrase "objectively hot troubadour"
You'll notice sargon's behavior in a LOT of conservative arguments. They never actually address your point directly, they always attack the idea standing vaguely adjacent to your argument.
I was watching a "debate" at one of the local uni's in my city that was a terf against a transwoman, and the topic was on if trans rights were harming women's rights. At one point in the debate the terf just straight up asked "who even cares about trans rights?" to a room that had a couple dozen trans people in it.
I think that's because conservatism, at it's core, is really about maintaining/reinforcing social hierarchies. Most of the ideological beliefs they claim to hold are just a smokescreen (albeit, often an unconsciously created smokescreen), and they will be dropped immediately if holding those beliefs no longer serve to defend their position of relative power over those below them in the hierarchy. Facts, logic, reason, truth, equality, justice, egalitarianism, scientific or academic inquiry, happiness, prosperity, fulfillment; these are all things that they are happy to sacrifice if they think it helps to preserve the "natural" hierarchy. And if any of those things threaten their good standing in the hierarchy, then they must be unnatural. Under those assumptions, Trump's actions as a conservative make sense. He's using the power of the government to reinforce what he thinks is the natural social hierarchy. One where Americans (and white, protestant Americans in particular) are on top.
He really does speak for a generation. A generation of men like me who were so petrified by appearing wrong (and therefore, weak). Rather accept the fact that they could be incorrect, they built up an ideology where facts and arguments are supposed to be fungible so that they could never appear weak again. A belief system built upon radical self-interest to defend fragile egos.
this channel is perfect for a sargon response video because big joel, a man who makes videos almost exclusively about subjects nobody cares about and which have no intrinsic importance, is totally immune to sargon's why should i care mantra
@@thomasstone3480 I don't remember that - Sargon always seems to hold his own in a debate - but I can't keep up with his massive output. You'll have to be more specific (though I doubt Conan will take you seriously).
"Why did you come to my birthday party if you don't like me and don't like lasertag?" I think you just summarized the motivations of a significant conservative demographic (hell, a significant non-conservative demographic is also like this). They don't talk about politics because they have any particular goals or beliefs. They get involved with things they hate because their own existence is empty and friendless. Nobody will come to their birthday party if they hosted one (or they believe nobody would come). So they'd rather go to someone else and complain that they're not being catered to.
It's hard to spot antisocial behaviour at first, because it does engage. It plans to attend your D&D party. Then it refuses to play, and works the room to do anything less lame.
if this comment isn’t 100% true then i’m done with this life. done, i tell ya. carl is and always has been a disgusting melting hippo of a human being with zero brains & the most annoying voice in history. i can prove it too! try this: try to imagine carl talking dirty. i just threw up in my mouth 🤮
He does that shit all the time. All these "skeptics" tell SJWs to stop being triggered snowflakes, while making videos acting like triggered snowflakes.
I don't know if Joel has said this, as I've yet to finish the video, but it's because he is angry that people are still talking about her in a positive light. Anyone liking or caring about Anita Sarkeesian undermines his feeling of victory over her.
Did you ever think that Sargon might of found Big Joel relevant/interesting? (rather than Anita) That Big Joel was appealing? After all feminism aside, Big Joel is usually quite clever.
Lightningfast I feel bad for history buffs looking for pictures of Sargon Of Akkad on google, only to find pictures of a pasty white guy with a punchable face.
The thing is he just thinks on a very very surface level. And at this level of unintelectuallity, his arguments make sense. He is so dumb that you need to be even dumber to understand what he's saying.
I have to keep Big Joel videos playing in the background rather than watch the visuals just so I don't get overwhelmed by the sight of that hot troubadour.
I just don’t get why anyone takes Carl seriously. Like, as a person. He forcibly reminds me of a guy I went to highschool with who thought he was the smartest person in every room, but every time he opened his mouth everyone in the class would collectively roll their eyes. Including the teachers.
You hit the nail on the head there. All of these "rationalist" crapmongers have that same aspect, and it feeds directly into their victimhood complex. We - the sneering elite - think we are too good for them! Never mind that it's because we *actually are* - they would rather change reality than their own minds.
@@lauravlife No, I am making it clear that SJW's don't actually care about the truth. They literally mock the very western foundations that they stand on because of tired arguments about "slavery". They believe that white people are the worst despite the fact that white people literally built the 1st world.
to this day, i'm still puzzled by sarkeesian hate train. like, damn, god forbid someone have a different opinion than you. i thought that's what edgy centrists are all about defending.
Time is not being kind to their obsession...it will only become more and more pathetic, I am sure of it. Because of how ridiculous it is, how seriously they take this (especially when contrasted with the stuff they refuse to take seriously). 'Don't worry about what politicians are doing...only worry about what this lady is saying in her RUclips videos.'
for me it wasn't her opinions in and of themselves, i didnt mind that she had a different opinion than mine or anything. it was more that i felt like there didnt come from the most honest place sometimes. she was exposed to not really be that interested in games, and just wanted to make some patreon/backer money for some video essays that she didnt deliver on or something. so to my young mind, it was sort of disingenuous. as well as that, i found some of her takes to be quite odd. for instance, her notorious hitman piece really missed the mark for me. you know about the strippers and how you completely had the option not to kill them or something? . it was a long time ago, to be fair and that being said yes the obsession with her is really out of fashion, didnt gamer gate happen years ago? like, Chill sargon lmao. I havent been a fan of his for years now because he's just slipping. did you know he tried to start some sort of gamergate 2 ? failed tremendously of course. I tuned into his channel for the first time in a while just to see if he had evolved at all, but instead i found him taking WAP all too seriously. it must be exhausting being that concerned with everything.
Yeah, I'm a feminist and I always found her takes pretty boring and not really adding anything new to the existing conversation. Which is fine, I can just find more interesting takes all over the internet. It's not a fucking hatecrime against gamers to compile "problematic" stuff about games from a feminist perspective that is already talked about and make it accessible to those who haven't thought about it a whole lot already. Objectively, she's at most a little bit annoying or boring, and it's hilarious that gamers are so genuinely THREATENED by her. Like, stay mad, they've made this woman incredibly successful.
he doesn’t sound smart at all, he has the same sort of vocal shape as alan partridge. he sounds like a total wanker, and that’s even before you start listening to what he’s saying
"Part of what we sign with the 'SharkTales discourse contract' is that it is something we are interested in talking about" Big Joel, I love you so much!
In my experience being put through the alt right pipeline during gamergate “anti sjw” is just another word for nazi or is at the VERY least nazi adjacent.
@@andrewalpern2178 How tf is gamergate part of an alt right pipeline? Was just a consumer movement demanding better journalism. Also anti sjw just means you're against crazies. The vast majority of people are anti sjw.
@@TheSm1thers Gamergate is directly related to anti-SJW content and alt-right adjacent people like Sargon and the other “intellectuals” in his circle. The pipeline would go from watching SJW gets triggered compilations or whatever and then you end up watching people like Sargon and before you know it you’re watching Milo Yiannopoulos and other outspoken Nazis.. I doubt most people would label themselves as anti-SJW even if they don’t agree with the politics presented by SJWs. Being proudly anti-SJW is a bit of a dog whistle.
I think this entire video could be pretty much summarised as "Sargon does not understand the concept of feminist critique". Or of any critique, apparently.
You ever argue with someone for so long you forget why you're arguing in the first place? Yeah that's exactly what's happening. Sargon might not even disagree with Anita's analysis, but the two are such sworn enemies he feels the need to attack her analysis because she said it.
@@basambinsohailraja1801 Here's the stream where he said it. I spent an hour looking for it again, but holy fuck, I gave up. He brought on the most long-winded people. There's a commenter confirming he said it at some point in the stream, though. He said "academic feminist" and I presumed gender studies. ruclips.net/video/KP-QCOuSGxg/видео.html
Plenty of successful and intelligent people either drop out of college or don't go there. Educated also doesn't mean intelligent. Additionally, there are plenty of people with degrees from college serving coffee while Sargon managed to be successful on RUclips. Your implication falls apart under basic scrutiny and reeks of smug elitism. Just a passing by comment.
@@EntertheFray1 who mentioned "success" anywhere in OP comment? Also, success also doesn't mean intelligence, however education it is strongly correlated with intelligence. What's your point? quoting some passing by commentor: "Your implication falls apart under basic scrutiny and reeks of smug elitism"
@@EntertheFray1 Except good education is strongly correlated with intelligence. I've went from a guy who never studies, to a guy who studies a lot, and it has significantly improved my brain. Whatever though, HURRRR MY DAD THE FARMER IS SMARTER THAN THE PHYSICIST AT BERKELEY.
As we all know, there are 2 genders, male and "political", along with two races, white and "political" - two sexualities (straight and "political"), two body types (able-bodied and "political"). There is no room in his worldview for the vast spectrum of the human experience or the wonders of reality, only the ongoing echo chamber of people who look Just Like Him
@@doctorwholover1012 You just did the meme of jamming the stick in your own bike tire. Yes, yes. Agree with the current thing. Agree with everything the government, corporations, and wealthy globalist fascists tell you is true. Believe that you are an avant-garde free-thinker by amplifying regime messaging like an obedient serf, and saying safe things that you can never get in trouble for because every government and corporation supports your stance. Never step out of line like Sargon and those other rascals who dare question things. As we all know, the current state of world affairs it perfect and leftist governments around the globe have reached peak perfection and they cannot be criticized anymore. History definitely does not repeat, nor do leftist authoritarian dictators have a history of throwing their own useful idiot supporters into gulags - if they don't execute them on the spot first. "There is no room in his worldview for the vast spectrum of the human experience or the wonders of reality," What the fuck does this even mean? Cut back on the word salad and use specific examples and quotes.
Katherine Lanier I think at one point we all went through our edgy overly-verbose-while-not-making-an-argument-while-pretending-not-to-care RUclipsr phase.
I used to watch Thunderfoot waaaay back in the day when he made videos on atheism. Luckily I got out after I realized he was a massive ass who just wanted to power trip on the lowest common denominator. I feel filled with shame when I think about it.
Think Critically What an ineffable exchange: “Man this video fits an idiom that tends to be abrasive really well despite not being abrasive in and of itself. Probably more so than any in my limited memory.” “Hey I’d like to remind you that you are, as a human being, vulnerable to confirmation bias, but only imply that it is relevant here.” What fine lessons we could all learn by having teachers that take this approach! And I would explain that statement, but I think we’re all better served by leaving that as an impossible to complete task for the viewer unless they engage with me in a specific fashion I won’t mention.
I think it was Michael Brooks who finally finished the thought on the right-wing staple "Facts don't care about your feelings..." "...they only care about mine."
@@kylelacey1212 Projection is one of the many weapons in his "red pill" arsenal. Maybe the worst one is equivocation, because after you have spent 2 solid hours just equivocating facts and making such a "clear" point it's a gargantuan task to go through a all the misuse and misunderstanding of terms, literature and statistics that you have let these things slip virtually free.
Once you noticed it, the tactic of pretending to be a careless joking rebel who just happen to spend most of his time whining about feminism appears in almost every altright video. It's pretty impressive. At least Paul Joseph Watson doesn't play pretend, he is proud to be a malevolent crazy person.
The problem is always the ego. Instead of being flexible and open to better information, an attack on Sargon's ideas is an attack on Sargon himself, just in the same way that he attacks Joel personally because he thinks Joel's opinions must be a reflection on Joel himself. And in the same way Anita exposes bad ideas in video games, which literally inspired him to start making videos, he feels the need to defends his worldview unprovoked. And I'm pretty certain his view on feminists hasn't changed. He's not here to learn or grow. He's here to demand others comply to his perspective. Because it's about being right, not about what is true; his argument boils down to the idea that his views are true for him, without being bothered to contend with the lived experience of more than half the human population, women who have been the butt of the joke of the video games he baselessly defends. The end point of his philosophy is a moral nihilism of the worst sort, which precludes the need for him to even state his opinions in the first place. And instead of believing people who are negatively effected by harmful stereotypes and cultural norms, he entrenches himself deeper into those norms, crying out for someone to agree. And the approval of others who live equally unexamined lives is the end point of some of the most pernicious parts of the internet.
@@thinkcritically1990 ok so when Courtney said "how can ....", it was a figure of speech meant to illustrate the irony of Sargon insulting Joels appearance, not a literal question about Sargons autonomy. Remember to think critically when you read!
This is one of your best videos. I was thinking about this when I saw Sargon respond to one of Lindsay Ellis’s videos about J.K. Rowling, in which he suddenly acted like the safety and comfort of women was worth prioritizing against “radical trans activism.” It just hit me how Carl thinks how the only conversations worth having are the ones that he decides are worth having. If Carl doesn’t have complete control over the topic, if it can’t revolve around his ego and preference, if he can’t be validated that he is 100% correct and doesn’t need to learn anything new, then he simply says he doesn’t care and acts like the topic isn’t worth investigating or exploring. HBomberguy put it best. Carl doesn’t know. He doesn’t care. And he wants to know and care less.
@@normandy2501 yeah, that whole line of thinking that the so-called "manosphere" are obsessed with is a bunch of barrel-scraping crap based on a study of WOLVES that didn't even turn out to be that acuurate... :P Really telling.
@@normandy2501 shup up luzer betazoid lol jk. Also for anyone interested in the wolf thing, the original study was accurate, but it was done on wolves in captivity--imagine trying to study human sociology on nothing but people living in quarantined refugee camps and you get the idea. Later studies found that wolves actually behave quite similar to humans in many ways, forming breeding pairs and even adopting disenfranchised juveniles on occasion. It's fascinating stuff to read up on if you have a few Sargons a day to spare. Look up L. David Mech--he both popularized the 'alpha' idea and later recanted it after finding the study to be errant.
@@Scoring57 I mean if you read what he wrote, he acknowledges that in his comment my dude. Trust us the more nuanced take is the right one here. Not accurate for wild wolves. Accurate for captivity
Critical Theory is the intellectual traditions sum total of the humanities generally and literary criticism specifically. It includes but is not limited to "the Frankfurt school" and is the basis undergirding all of Big Joel's videos
At the suggestion of another commenter, I tried to imagine Sargon talking dirty into my ear, and I immediately felt violated and grossed out. But then I tried to imagine *Big* Joel talking dirty into my ear, and I immediately came. Objectively Hot Troubadour confirmed.
I actually gagged reading the sentance "imagining Carl dirty talking into your ear" and sometimes I have to rewatch Joels videos because I get distracted by him so-
imagining carl at all should make anyone feel grossed out. a rat could roll in feces and bile and then seeing carl would still be the grossest its ever felt. I mean have you see this man? don't let the pretentious suit and tie fool you. hes an archetypal fat neckbeard and I'm convinced the only reason he doesn't wear a fedora is because the grease from his hair would cause it to slide off.
I cant believe I used to like Sargon during my teen years lol The more I age the more I realize just how ridiculously shallow his arguments really are.
I never got into Sargon but he likely would have resonated with me. That’s what happens when you grow up fundamentalist Mormon lol. Crazy listening back to the vapid arguments these jabronis are spit out
Well I used to hate myself so much I did it all unfortunately. I used to watch alex jones, crowder, undoomed, and various other "critical" people. Then I met my wife that is a feminist and showed me what feminism is actually. She made points to me that made me think more on what I watch and finding out what I truly believe in. Much like you said about how getting older makes you rethink what you did younger. I transitioned so basically flipped my wrong thinking to more understanding and not sticking to a side of the story. I wont say I'm thinking the right way, just being more caring of others and equal to all since that is my goal for myself to reflect to my child.
I just realised we're like 6 levels deep on criticism here, this is Big Joel, in response to Sargon, in response to Big Joel, in response to Sargon and Bigfoot, in response to Anita, in response to modern games...
It's definitely a very interesting approach. After all, even youtube videos of someone talking over a picture for an hour are a form of art in a sense.
JustMe Just like Mr. Peterson and his take on christianity and on most things in general. The most "post modern" anti-post modern person on the internet.
I don't care about your reasons for thinking a work of fiction is offensive. I do care about the chilling effect your complaints on artists' ability to express interesting and provocative stories because they are scared it might hurt your feelings. I also don't see why this content creator suddenly thinks fiction needs to have a positive message. When he did his video on My Neighbor Totoro, I didn't hear him complain for hours that kidnapping children is wrong and how could Totoro do that and now the movie is bad because it sends the bad message that kidnapping is OK. So why does he keep saying that the video game is bad and sends a bad message?
@@peterr6988 then why are there so many guys pretending to be woke feminists to get laid? This is a real thing that happens! A lot! It may surprise you to learn many women would prefer relationships with men that share their worldview.
*Footnote 1*
It’s important to note here that even if you’re not a utilitarian, almost all ethical paradigms hold that actions can be moral that are not violent, including natural rights ethics. It seems Carl is conflating the question “Is this act immoral” with the question “should this act be coerced against by the state?” But we can all come up with actions that people are free to do that are morally better or worse than other actions (even if you only believe in subjective morality). Consider giving to a charity for sick kids versus buying something that will help no one. Certainly, both actions should be legal in a capitalist nation, but the first action is pretty clearly the morally superior one.
*Footnote 2*
I thought I’d speak a bit about how why I think it’s reasonable to make the claim “science can’t disprove that art affects people.” It seems that Carl and many of the people who like Carl are under the impression that science, what we might define as the formalized process of experimentation in order to discover facts about the world, has a monopoly on the way we come into real knowledge. This, however, is clearly not the case. Imagine that a scientific study came out that said “People do not see the color blue.” Well, we might read the article and it might have some interesting findings about how the color blue functions, but no matter what, the article could never disprove that people see blue. It is objectively true that we have the experience of seeing that color. This claim is similar to a hypothetical scientific article claiming that media does not affect people-- there is simply an insurmountable amount of evidence against that being possible. Not only do I have memories of media affecting me both emotionally and intellectually, but also, every single person I have ever met would say the same. Moreover, the existence of advertising, the existence of religious texts exist that inform people’s faith, the fact that my video had a clear causal relationship to Carl making his, these are all objective facts that cannot, and could not, be disproved via experimentation.
*Footnote 3*
So, I felt a bit of conflict here, saying that he uses the argument here as evidence for his conclusion that, “no moral critique of art can be grounded,” since he never explicitly says that. But frankly, it’s something we have to assume. Since he doesn’t think that we can make grounded moral claims about the messages of media, and since he uses the argument in this section to disagree with me about my position that Lubenshluben provides evidence of our ability to make such claims, we have to think that, at the very least, he thinks his argument here is pushing toward his conclusion.
*One Additional (and maybe important) Note*
In my video at one point, I say "In Sargon's mind, Anita Sarkeesian is trying to exert her will and he's trying to exert his," and this has led a few of you to point out that yes, Sarkeesian clearly does want to influence the video game industry. I could have spoken a bit more carefully here. What I meant is not that Sarekeesian does not want to influence things, but that, for her, interpretation is not *exclusively* a matter of influence. The observations she makes of Double Dragon here are reasonably well grounded, they are not true or false, good or bad, by virtue of Anita's desire to exert power and she never implies otherwise. Where Sargon constitutes the entire thrust of his argument with his preference for certain interpretations over others, Sarkeesian does not.
*I thought I'd also take a moment to talk about some of the more minor, incorrect claims that Carl makes over the course of his video.*
At one point, he says that art cannot be inherently meaningful, that art is just objects and that objects do not have any inherent meaning. I think Carl has forgotten here one of the most important preconditions of art: That it was made, most likely by a person. This fact makes it literally impossible for any work of art to be meaningless--it will always have, at one point, been meaningful to the person who made it.
Toward the end of his video, Carl says that Lubenshluben cannot be evil because films are objects, not moral agents. It seems obviously untrue that only moral agents are the only things that can be evil, since actions can also be evil. For example, a murderer might be evil, but the act of murdering is also frequently described as an evil one. And make no mistake, Lubenshluben *is* an action. It was brought into existence by people who wanted to bring it into existence. As such, Lubenshluben is the sort of thing that can be evil.This was a very silly and pedantic point.
Finally, Carl returns in his video to the untrue idea that it is impossible for video games to be causing violent action *while* the murder rate goes down. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's evidence that video games cause violence, but it's important to note that society is filled with confounding variables. It is not impossible for various social changes to cause less crime overall, while video games, a relatively minor aspect of most people's lives, causes them to go up.
*Oh, and Sargon, if you're reading this,*
My offer is still open to have a text conversation that we can make public at any time. I don’t think some live discussion would be nearly as productive. I understand that you like live conversations and the like, but I just prefer to work more meticulously.
Feel free to ask any questions about my video! Thanks for reading my novel.
I know this isn’t a question concerning the video, but what was up with that livestream you started and then just left?
Posting a wall-of-text comment under your own video, hah! (Actually an interesting read as well
I think it would probably be best not to talk to him. Every debate is just a fundraiser for his perceived war.
I'm of the complete opposite opinion on moral agents compared to Carl. I am not particularly convinced that a human being who makes moral choices should ever be considered good, evil, right, wrong. I don't think that a human being can inherently contain these properties.
Rather, when I think about it, I can only possibly attribute properties like right and wrong, good and bad, harmful or beneficial - to ideas, objects, actions, systems. I cannot possibly know nor prove whether Hitler was an evil *person*. I wouldn't know how to ever prove that Hitler's *body and brain*, that his very person, was evil. Rather, I can only describe Hitler as having been evil by pointing towards his actions, towards the systems he put in place, towards his ideas and words. I could only ever suggest that the Person named Adolf Hitler was an Evil Person in a roundabout way by pointing towards all of these things that were NOT his person.
So yeah, I think that sargon's claim that the film must be an acting moral agent is literally attributing morality to something that cannot contain inherent morality. Human beings are just flesh and blood with meat computers in our skulls.
Big Joel My problem with Anita is her impact on the stories of games like Anthem and COD WW2. She isn’t only a critic. She holds some of the “means of production” if you want to call them that.
I’m not claiming your a Communist. I was just being tongue and cheek.
Sargon: "I don't care," he says, caringly, as he cares deeply
"I don't care," he said as slowly shrank into a Care Bear.
"I don't care" seems to be his tagline
“Harry did you put your name in the goblet of fire?” Dumbledore asked calmly.
I thought at first, this was an interesting historical biography on a famous Akkadian king, but instead it's about some dinghead named Carl.
For the video you were looking for, Quinton Reviews did it over on his channel in between segments of an increasingly unhinged dissertation on Raid: Shadow Legends ^^
😂😂😂
Right there with ya bud, thought I was in for some history when I saw the title. Technically speaking, I guess I got some.
Et tu, Et tu, Vi? Sorry, had to make a joke with your name, but yeah, me too. I was expecting a video about some Mesopotamian and got a video about someone who's views would probably fit in ancient Mesopotamia. Who am I kidding, from the little I know about that dude he's probably even too retrograde for Mesopotamia.
And you know what? Forget about he, I'm gonna refer to them as they, since that would probably piss them off.
😂😂😂
“You have your own biases, like thinking nazis are bad, and I have my own biases, like thinking feminism is bad” is QUITE the argument
Yuh
That’s a holy shit moment
@@Sm0k3turtliteral mask off moment
Don't we have biases tho?
I disagree that nazi's are bad. They are evil. They are worse than people who, due to their human weakness, occasionally act immorally. And due to their collective actions their aggregate evilness is multiplied and many correctly considered them a great evil. I disagree that Feminism is bad purely because feminism is an ideology. It does not have free will, it has no agency and can't make moral decisions.
CB is a philosopher for toddlers.
The moment when Sargon tries to asset his masculinity on a man he views as weak and then gets completely bent over by an honest man's discussion is probably the best part of this video.
Lol ‘you don’t look masculine bro’ has to be the most hilarious argument I’ve ever heard.
@@omnistpagan3282 Especially coming from Carl Benjamin, who himself doesn't exactly seem to be favoured by Masculinity
@@sandrols7 I guess he thinks because he is big and has a beard that makes him some manly man lol. I’m not sure.
@@sandrols7 Peak manliness is when you wear a fedora and sunglasses while sipping cheap scotch and smoking a cigar you got at the local news stand
@@gaiusjuliuspleaser As a man, I can confirm that this is true.
Big Joel DESTROYS sargon of akkad with CARE and ATTENTION
I really loved this video but it created a massive problem! I left the Anti-esjayuu vortex almost 2 years ago and the RUclips algorithm had adapted to my new, healthier way of life by purging those assholes from my recommended but because of this video, my recommended is full of Sargon's shit. I wanna die!!!!
Eli N.S you can erase your history
Good idea, dude!
"DESTROYED WITH CARE AND ATTENTION" or something along that line needs to be out there.
It would raise the cringe level of "DESTROYED BY FACTS AND LOGIC" even more.
Wish someone would destroy me with care and attention :(
More precisely Joel repaints religious fundamentalist arguments so hard that Kent rovind is suing him for plagiarism.
Just replace “I don’t care” with “I can’t be bothered to learn” and suddenly his videos make more sense.
Bold of you to assume he could
I read this and immediately imagined Carl as a grandpa getting pissed off at an iPad. What a fucking boomer lol
It's more like he DOES care and he doesn't want to learn. Someone who doesn't care would not make the video constantly saying how he doesn't care.
@@Gooong He cares that what he likes and believes is being challenged. His argument against progressive ideas is all too often "there is no problem because it has always been this way, and I'VE never noticed an issue." He says it without a hint of irony, like it's completely sound logic.
AHxIntrovert44
Or with "I care A LOT". Too much in fact 😄
Joel, don’t lie. The only reason you made the original video was to hear Sargon say “Lubenshluben”.
I bet carl looked it up and is sad it isn't real.
It's a pretty good reason though.
You have to admit it's really funny
"Why are we still talking about her?"
-Sargon "I named myself after a 4000 year old Akkadian ruler" of Akkad
Sargon of Akkad, the historical figure, is so badass, too. Sad.
@@thebrutusmars I thought this was a video about him, but I guess not, oh well. :(
Meep Meep
I’m so sorry dude that’s got to be mega disappointing
Funny when you factor in the fact that, in Carl's own words, "made the channel as a response to Anita Sarkeesian"
it gets even more ironic when you realize he named himself after the ruler of a culture known to celebrate sadism towards it's political enemies. Sargon was the dude who praised himself, in stone, for making defeated enemies live the rest of their lives literally chained up in dog cages just because, well, he was stronger than them.
Could you reupload this as a podcast? I'm too distracted by the objectively hot troubadour to listen critically.
I recommend laying your phone face-down while listening - you’ll still have a raging erection, but enough blood will remain in your brain to take in the information
Dude's eyes are legit enchanting, bro.
I'm not into men
but
He is quite charming ☺️
I second this, my girlfriend caught me watching this and now not only is she subbed to big Joel herself but she can’t stop talking about how cute he is and trying to get me to buy Joel sweaters so I look more like him. While I didn’t really think about it much before, I now strongly object to this kind of reckless posting of such overtly sexual video content on RUclips!
Edit: spellcheck keeps forcefully correcting me because it doesn’t understand that it’s a big dumb dumb and I’m a big smart smart. I know what I’m doing, spellcheck! Stop trying to stifle me!
"B-baka, it's not like I care about Anita-chan a-a-anyways...."
- Sargon
Please don't do this djhfbr
Tsundere sargon. This is so appropriate....so appropriate
This shit broke me! lmao
I would love to see this as top comment in sargon's vids. (although i guess i'd never no since i wouldnt watch them anyway.)
I almost died laughing at this comment x'D
[kicks the door open and enters the room]
I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I EXTREMELY DON'T CARE
Sargon irl
ruclips.net/video/_QWnCDYeYH0/видео.html
@Robinson Nox is that a loveless profile picture? if so your comment just got way better
@@amolinya Yeah, it's Loveless, from the band My Bloody Valentine
@@robinsonnox9980 souvlaki is better but loveless is cool too
I really really don't care for shoegaze, just so you know
Sargon is the ultimate status quo warrior. He doesn't care about the substance of people's critiques, he cares that they have critiques at all. He's so aggressively anti intellectual it's actually fascinating.
Know 'Genetically Modified Sceptic'?
Based take
I think part of that is that looking at the substance of people's critiques would take him more than 5 minutes.
which is fascinating, because he somehow presents himself as an intellectual.
@@rocker1296 Which we all know is an exorbitant amount of time to expect someone to devote to such a thing.
Sargon of Akkhad is like that one kid in your AP English class who NEVER does the reading, but complains whenever he gets a grade lower than a 95.
I knew this feeling was familiar
You're my new favorite person.
Let’s be serious Sargon was the kid that didn’t go into A.P. classes but he claimed to be taking actual college course or because the teacher was a Marxist.
I knew this felt familiar.
King Peppy I’m confused.
Sargon of Akkad, the guy who has been ranting on and on about Sarkeesian for years, pushed Gamergate, and has been the biggest contributor to anti Sarkeesian videos doesnt care about her.... Consider me skeptical..
"The narratives that *men* have told *one another* since the dawn of time."
Getting close to something there, Sargon. Keep working at it.
he was SO close to getting the point
What a model self-aware wolf
He would find a clit, before he found the point. So I personally, will not be holding my breath.
@@AdumbDriver XDDDDDD omfg I'm deceased
Haha do women really think they will ever get an upper hand? That's delusional. Sargon is a talking strawman. And that is all feminism is able to beat.
Sargon's tactic when he gets cornered or called out on misrepresenting something or just being straight up wrong is to exclaim "I don't care!" or "There is no reason to care!"
Exclaiming "Who cares?!" _IS_ his argument.
My brother does this. He's always thought of himself as some kind of a brilliant debate tactician just because he can reduce everything down to broad navel gazing pseudo philosophy about the natural uncertainty and subjectivity of reality. Often the next step to "winning" the argument is by nihilistically proclaiming meaningless to everything. And so they conclude with smug satisfaction in supposedly being "right" for having the "best argument" even though by logical extension of their worldview their own argument is meaningless by default; leaving no reason to take satisfaction in it.
Oh yes the famous, "I don't Care."
Every single time, I've even called him out of it and he said that's not true.
He doesn't care about climate change, or solutions to sexual harassment, or race, or media representation, or feminisim, or SJW, or anything.
Ergo he's never wrong about anything, because, who cares?
If one doesn't care, then why should we is my response.
So I used to watch a lot of these anti-sjw videos and the point of "I dont care" is simply that Sargon and the others dont see the value in what Anita is saying. Some points that Sargon and others have made is that Anita's time would be better spent using her resources/influence trying to effect change with real issues,such as the mistreatment of women in the middle east. She made many thousands of dollars and used that money to attack gamers/developers. Really? Damsel in distress is perpetuating the patriarchy? So I should ignore a woman in need of help? Anita is an absurd person with some (not all) of the arguments she makes, and i've met the type. One time some crazy feminist got angry with me because I held a friggin door for her?? Like wtf? She actively made my day worse even though i was clearly trying to do somthing nice. I now disagree with Sargon on most things, but on this issue there is clearly a loud annoying minority of people who seem to have the sole objective of tearing people down and playing the victim. The sad thing is Anita could effect change. But no, VIDEO GAMES BAD!!
greenbay champ
There's a term for what you are suggesting. It's called a "whataboutism." Look irregardless of how much you feel Anita is an "evil person", she more then allowed to say what she damn well wants and focus on what she damn well please as much as Sargon is allowed to whine endless about how Anita doesn't care about woman in the Middle East rather then worry about that himself. Either you can debate them on their on points they have made, or you can shut the fuck up. And how do you even know she doesn't care about the woman in the Middle East? What's your proof of it beyond the fact that she mostly focuses her channel on talks about media and not on other things? We are allowed to talk about multiple things in this world. We don't have to be forced to talk about things you deem as "more important." Because in the end it would be so easy for me to come back at you and say "why worry about the people in the Middle East when the climate is changing?" or "why worry about climate change when people are dying of famine?" It doesn't disprove anything she has said, nor does this talk about how "evil" or "crazy" she and other feminist are. That's why Sargon fails. That's why anti-feminist fail.
As one great Sobek worshiper once said: "Carl doesn't know, he doesn't care, and he wants to know and care less."
All hail Sobek. We need to find him that mummified crocodile...
Sobek bless that man
Blasting sperm like Zeus from the top of Mount Olympus
May our sperm be plenty and our harvest bountifull
Hail Sobek!
Big Joel is giving me all that Objectively Hot Troubadour energy.
BTE - Big Troubadour Energy
Wuh?
you down with OHT? yeah you know me
It's called being sleezy and dishonest.
Can be quite hot for some people and it's strongly associated with the troubador trope.
@@macmcskullface1004 Who did you call a hot troubadour?
Sargon shows his true self when he basically says “if you can criticize Nazi’s I can criticize feminism”.
"Not well served by masculinity"? With those eyes? Wow, Sargon has a narrow view of masculinity and poor taste in men.
I think he's more in mind of which one of them would win in a wrestling match. When all you have is girth every problem can be solved with wrestling.
I just laughed like an oil tycoon's widow in those old moving pictures. Your wit is sparkling. I hope your night/day is magnificent.
Sargon says this but he looks like a complete sack of shit compared to Joel, who looks much handsome, physically. Carlgon has some clear self-image issues about himself he's covering with his faux-nationalism.
I like how Anita's point was that storytelling is shaped by patriarchal attitudes and the perceptions of men dominating most forms of storytelling, and then Carl accidentally agrees with her while thinking that he's taking a position that refutes her point.
He's so damn dumb, folks.
That's just mansplaining. He repeated what she said in an inferior way and pretended he taught her something.
Yeah well you're just pointing out the fact that men have always been assholes and...
wait, I'm doing the same thing.
Sai ...and what did you just do?
Reminds me of that Jordan Peterson talk of him "debunking" marxism by repeating Marx's own argument against egalitarianism almost verbatim. Right-wingers are really into the "I don't have to read this shit" school of political philosophy.
I'm pretty sure he just said if it is true, who cares?
"the contract we sign as we enter shark tale discourse..."
"...is a contract drafted by the devil."
Bring them back to King Dice!
We can see now why he has to be a writer.
"To be honest, history is sexist but it, like, totally doesn't matter now and fiction exists in a vacuum" - Sargon of Akkad, probably
nobody thinks fiction exists in a vaccuum :S that's an extremists twist on normal liberal rhetoric... why would you do that? i'm assuming you're liberal?
@@hybridh9702 you've obviously never seen loli defenders in action, that's the most prominent example that comes to mind at the moment.
@@skele3310murdering loli fans which is what a lot of people call is yes. still a form of extremism. what the fuck is your point?
@@hybridh9702 and nobody said that anybody *consciously* thinks and claims fiction exists in a vacuum... Why would you assume that? The point is that in order for the arguments to work, fiction needs to exist in a vacuum.
This isn't about reading anyone's mind, this is about analyzing their words. I don't know what Sargon actually thinks, I only know what he says and what he claims.
(And pretty much every fan is going to be a liberal.)
over simplifying complex history so you can stand on a moral pedastool... the act of chivalry was from a oppressive culture so it in itself must be oppressive... yeah 'cos things work like that and culture is that simple. fucking extremist
This is what we call "I can never admit i am wrong" syndrome. Carl of Akkad is patient 0 in the last epidemic of it.
It's the influence of fash tactics filtering down to the rationalist dipshits
Sargon trying to attack Joel's masculinity is the most pathetic thing I will observe today
Right? Joel ain't a big boy but he's definitely a man. Funny how warped people's idea of masculinity is these days but I suppose it's cause a lot of proponents for masculinity these days think being left is inherently feminine lol
Joel is so cute he reminds me of a guy I slept with tho. But with self confidence.
I nearly spit out my drink when I heard Sargon say that. It's so hilariously infantile.
Just today lol
Masculinity: Over 3.5 billion poorly served
Joel calling Sargon of Akkad "Carl" has the same energy as Dumbledore calling Voldemort "Tom"
goated comment^
Joel has the ideal male body, sargon may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like
Why does THAT matter?
@@manidavis4126 You should ask Sargon that.
cute guy who make video lectures and will probably give you head pats vs grimy obnoxious turd that think he need to exert dominance over others.
Seriously, a guy who comes off as a prissy character actor playing an effete waiter who gets flustered by Lucy Ricardo should not be talking about others unfortunate masculinity service- whatever the fuck that is
atenahena Looks more like too much soy.
27:05 Did Sargon really just say “disliking nazi propaganda is a political bias” and “Anita sarkeesian is bad for the same reason nazi propaganda is bad” in the same paragraph?
This is a 6 Sargon long video Joel, you know damn well he’s not going to watch it
There's diasgreement in that regard. @DustyO'Rusty, a bit down in the comments, estimates it to be about 15 Sargons long.
@@belegl.7721 that's in imperial system. In metric sargons it's 6
I think he will watch it, but not in its entirety, because he does tend to skip around and not absorb a person's entire argument before dismissing it. Hopefully he proves us wrong, but for the love of god don't hold your breath.
@@EE-gv9wt I thought that 15 sargons was the metric standard and that 6 sargons was the imperial standard.
@@Odinsday shit we need a convention to resolve the misconceptions
Your slow, methodical, careful dismantling of his arguments is so alpha male
What a Chad
What an absolute king
@@jebalitabb8228
"emotional whiny manbaby".
Sounds more like you're describing Sargon instead, if you ask me **shrug**
@@jebalitabb8228 i don’t understand. what do you mean? what about his politics has anything to do with his masculinity?
@@jebalitabb8228 keep malding, you’ll never be as hot as big joel
How on earth is Big Joel "not well served by masculinity"? He absolutely is, in my view. 10/10, would ask out for coffee, would leave an awkward comment on his YT channel.
J C agree
Yeah. He's more feminine then most (which isn't a bad thing, femboys deserve all the love, y'all are sweethearts) but he's still most Definetly masculine in a ton of ways. (The way he presents himself, etc.) 10/10 what a cutie.
Dexter Badger AJ What does effeminate even mean anymore? I FEEL
“effeminate”, yet I work out, served in Marine infantry for 8 years, and my ideal GoT character isn Bobby B.
No one can tell that I am effeminate at heart, but yet I am.
I need a strict definition of the word, is what I’m saying
@@dpax2195 *OHHH, SHOW US YOUR MUSCLES! YOU'LL BE A SOLDIER!*
Even if this were true... He's starting by admitting that men who don't live up to some masculine ideal in our society have a hard time. Isn't that an admission that, yes, our society does favor masculinity and/or force gender roles on us?
This is the worst burn he has received in a good long while. I'm sure he'll not care so hard that he makes seven videos about it.
@The Bandog yeah, I'm often wrong. Always admit it. Does this make sargon something other than a whiny piece of shit? Great defending here.
assuming he even can watch all of this. i mean, it is over five minutes long.
@@maivaiva1412 Carl is renowned for his attention span and reading comprehension. How dare you!
He won't watch it, this video is at least six Sargons long.
@Eli You must be part of Carlgons core audience
Sargon suffers from the lazy response video formula. Where he records himself reacting to a video sentence by sentence. So he will miss points being built up in a paragraphs and pages. He'll complain that there's no forest because of all the trees in the way.
They are always tedious videos where it takes hours to get through a few minutes of video to critique.
The most bizarre thing though is, at least to a very easily-swayed mushbrain like me . . . it's kind of compelling. Like, Sargon is obviously a fucking moron, but he *sounds* smart enough if you're not paying too close attention. Like if you don't notice that he's doing the sentence-by-sentence trick, you might think some of his discrete points have merit, and start nodding along. There were a couple times where I was like "well, I guess so . . ." before Joel smacked me in the face with his polite, soft-spoken common sense and I realized I was being played.
I mean at the very least sargon knows what he's doing through intuition scraps of reading and other things. Don't feel too bad about falling for it.
Whenever someone responds to something I post with a granular sentence-by-sentence critique, I go "you know, this is not my idea of a good time" and peace out. It's exhausting and pointless talking that way!
@@silvertamagachi Reminds me of my first reaction to James B. Peterson, they aren't the same _kind_ of compelling until you listen to someone else, and then insine, (wel obviously their pushing the same views in a lot of ways, and both going for a kind of authoritative masculinity, but jordan is much more intensely post-modern.)
The nice effect that comes from it is when they go to the next sentence and realise, midway ranting, how they just cornered themselves. Like when Joel is finishing the Lubensluben rhetoric and he cuts right before Joel gets to the point of the thought experiment. Then, on continuing the video, he sees that he needs to back down on his argument, but instead he chooses to go full gas and says "well fuck it, you can say nazism is bad, so I can say feminism is bad".
There’s something immensely hilarious about the statement “Carl, look what my video has done to you.”
Sargon: Anita Sarkeesian shouldn't criticize video games because they aren't harmful, and you shouldn't criticize things that aren't harmful.
Also Sargon: It's okay for me to criticize Anita's videos, even though I don't think they're harmful.
Uh, what?
Well he does think that feminism is cancer so maybe he actually deluded himself into thinking that she is harmful
@@justabitofamug6989 He literally says Feminist Frequency's videos didn't cause any harm...
@@justabitofamug6989 well if he thinks that he should motivate his hown opinion on facts :
What makes feminism like cancer ?
Else he is just terrorised of somenthing for no reasons , he is feministphobic ...
That would be like me making videos covering how dogs are evil just because i am afraid of dogs , it's in my rights of free speech but ... Should i ??? Also that gives wind to the pepole pepole that are calling me a pussy ...
Because dogs/feminist aren't harmful to society ...
Yeah, his argument about Luben-shluben basically dismisses his own work?
@Feli Aslan yeah , i mean that theory could work :
There is this video from innuendo studios that talks about how rightwingers percive the world ,
And they basically see it as hierarchies , in this case as men above women ,
And they would percive feminism as flipping that hierarchy , it would men at the bottom women at the top ,
And therefore whenever he debates feminism , which by the better understood version of the term means seeking equality for both genders ,
There is this weird dissociation between what we say and what he responds with ...
Besides as someone who recovered from being alt-right i think that feminism needs a model for masculinity made by men for men which maybe women can veto if it's too sexist ...
But yeah this is just my opinion ...
I think Sargon accidentally lead everyone to call you attractive.
late to the party but joel is attractive and not even because his contents good and his opinions are good, but bc hes physically attractive like hmu daddy
He is incredibly cute
as a lesbian yeah he's p cute
As an official human pansexual, can affirm that he is cute
as a sexually confused blob, they're right regardless of why they say it so
Local man builds RUclips career proving how much he doesn't care about your opinions
2016: Carl joins UK fascist party
2017: Carl continues hanging out with the nazis from his gg days and invites in people who have recently turned nazi-friendly
2018: Carl says there's nothing wrong with nazi propaganda
2019: Carl destroys his political party
You don’t know what these words mean; or you don’t care what they men, only the sentences aura of the asswipe.
@@Orson2usigh, I'll bite: Then, I don't know if you've seen the evidence.
So, why leave this comment? With no details?
Examples of being specific:
Like, how many Sargon videos have you seen?
Have you seen clips from streams when he says things and interacts with people? He's online 24/7 (right now under a fake Twitter as usual) and interacting with other people online constantly.
Have you seen his interviews with British TV that he unfortunately had to do, as he actually became a politician? A UKIP member - do you know what that means?
There. Edit: at least we got to watch Carl crash and burn as a politician.
I wouldn't care about him if he wasn't like, fucking insane, and messaging people online 24/7. Like, holy shit, the amount of space Caarl has filled with his trash comments and messages, has forced everyone to stop caring about him. It's actually pretty crazy in hindsight.
He is on Twitter and tweeting nonstop like on a bender, and it's honestly concerning. (date, 12/1/20)
Hope he gets off the internet at some point and takes a break.
> Spreads the Cultural Bolshevism conspiracy theory
> Has off-handedly defended Frankfurt School conspiracy theories
> Believes in the Great Replacement, and said white women have an obligation to produce more offspring
> Heavily nationalist and traditionalist etc.
Jontron goes on his podcast at some point
Anyone who goes to Chuck E. Cheese's expecting shrimp is automatically an irresponsible actor.
...or just careless af
Anyone who goes to Chuck E. Cheese's is automatically an irresponsible actor.
ShootingStarNeo Fuck you, Chuck E Cheese’s was awesome.
Bookhead714 Ok mr. “I like recycled pizza”
Bookhead714 ok mr. I like my pizza recycled
I watched the Alt-Right Playbook a few days ago and, boy oh boy, did I recognise a lot of things in Sargon's rhetoric: the stanislavski opinion, the «card says moops» thing, the incoherent viewpoint. Great case to dissect!
Then again the guy who made that video documentary said that Sargon somehow assaulted her which clearly did not happened.
@@manidavis4126 ad hominem. There for the rhetoric.
@@manidavis4126 I'm assuming you mean the vidcon thing? No, Sargon didn't literally assault her, but you gotta admit he was being an asshole. Provocation online is one thing, meeting her in real life is another. I'd feel threatened if I was her.
@@cutecommie And that is the crux of the problem with feminism..men are bad because women feel men are bad.
@@thinkcritically1990 Nope. Nice try.
Preview of sargons response:
"I'm not owned! I'm not owned!" As he shrinks into a corn cob
I hope his grave says "rest in peace" so that he isn't drafted into the skeleton war.
@@plasmaballin at first I was like "calm down" and then I laughed
Cheybat Shrinking into a cob of corn sounds a bit too sophisticated for Sargon. He’ll probably just chuckle smuggy then livestream himself calling this Joel fellow a groomer.
It's so weird seeing Dril quotes and "skeleton war" outside of Tumblr.
>nobody's chasing after you with an anita sarkeesian hot take
I am. I will never stop chasing Sargon of Akkad with an Anita Sarkeesian hot take.
It ain't much, but it's honest work.
@@ziggy0277 I nearly inhaled my cup of tea, cheers for the laugh.
Such nobility is rare in our age of disaster capitalism.
Songs will be sung of this effort at the fifth international, may it come soon.
Do you have a gofundme? Can we discuss your program and how it may be enhanced?
1 year later and reports are coming in of _Harrison Fackrell_ still chasing Sargon with a Sarkeesian hot take.
Sargon doesn't care about facts. He used a couple pictures from matriarchal societies to try to make a point that matriarchy doesn't get "results," but if you read the article he got it from, it says they've been doing fine for some five thousand years without needing to change. No other human civilization has ever been able to be that sustainable. He took it out of context and expected us not to read it.
Often times, the sources that right-wingers throw at you often debunk their own talking points. It's debunked inside of the body of the source, not the tittle of course; which is why they always miss it.
@@RemixedVoice or sometimes, the right winger's sources is that they themselves are full of lies as well.
That’s because he didn’t read it either, and he can’t imagine anyone making better choices than him
RemixedVoice I know this is an old comment, but I just have to respond because it’s so relevant to a ‘conversation’ earlier today.
A man was attempting to prove that he’s, in fact, fine with trans people, and his only issue was ‘when they start taking my rights’. As an example of this he stated, unprompted, that it’s illegal to misgender someone in California.
I live in California so I was like what the fuck, source please? Cos that’s obviously not a thing.
So he tried and failed to post a link, and when it didn’t go through he posted a screenshot of his google page. The SECOND article was Fox News- “California now forces jail time for misgendering”. But the FIRST ARTICLE was Politifact, “Headlines mislead about California forcing jail time for misgendering”.
It was a truly, wholly, glorious moment.
@@aarishowton8037 NO FUCKING WAY HOW DO I FIND THIS
Big Joel energy on this video
Man... This was the most level headed and carefully considered work of savagery I've ever witnessed in my life. I'm not exaggerating, either.
I hope you caught hbomberguy's vid on that dopey and Anthony show troglodyte...
I know gotta love Big Joel.
sargon: you can only criticize something if it has violent consequences
sargon: "i honestly don't think feminist frequency is causing people to do bad things either"
also sargon: *spends a lot of time criticizing feminst frequency*
it makes no sense at all but at least he admits at the end that it's fully arbitray and not about facts and logic at all. just his ability to believe something out of sheer will.
I never really cared about Anita Sarkeesian or Sargon, yet this is still one of my favorite Big Joel videos because of the shrimp anecdote and for gracing us with the phrase "objectively hot troubadour"
You'll notice sargon's behavior in a LOT of conservative arguments. They never actually address your point directly, they always attack the idea standing vaguely adjacent to your argument.
I was watching a "debate" at one of the local uni's in my city that was a terf against a transwoman, and the topic was on if trans rights were harming women's rights. At one point in the debate the terf just straight up asked "who even cares about trans rights?" to a room that had a couple dozen trans people in it.
Rachel Madison
Well, the TERFs already think that. She just said the quiet part out loud.
I think that's because conservatism, at it's core, is really about maintaining/reinforcing social hierarchies. Most of the ideological beliefs they claim to hold are just a smokescreen (albeit, often an unconsciously created smokescreen), and they will be dropped immediately if holding those beliefs no longer serve to defend their position of relative power over those below them in the hierarchy. Facts, logic, reason, truth, equality, justice, egalitarianism, scientific or academic inquiry, happiness, prosperity, fulfillment; these are all things that they are happy to sacrifice if they think it helps to preserve the "natural" hierarchy. And if any of those things threaten their good standing in the hierarchy, then they must be unnatural.
Under those assumptions, Trump's actions as a conservative make sense. He's using the power of the government to reinforce what he thinks is the natural social hierarchy. One where Americans (and white, protestant Americans in particular) are on top.
@@erikdumas9873 citation needed
@@pithagorian4394 Capitalism is an inherently hierarchical system which is what the entire conservative platform seeks to defend at all costs.
Congrats on making Carl say "lubenshluben" out loud as a very serious grown man
everyone go subscribe to bemundolacks channel it's great
the idea of sargon considering he is "well served" by masculinity is very very funny to me for some reason
It's a very wierd way to put it, especially by a guy who hides behind an ancient Akkadian figure rather than show his face
"The card says moops."
-Carlgon
He really does speak for a generation.
A generation of men like me who were so petrified by appearing wrong (and therefore, weak). Rather accept the fact that they could be incorrect, they built up an ideology where facts and arguments are supposed to be fungible so that they could never appear weak again.
A belief system built upon radical self-interest to defend fragile egos.
How are YOU so far into the comments section. Specially considering that you are making a reference to one of your own videos.
Never play defense.
this channel is perfect for a sargon response video because big joel, a man who makes videos almost exclusively about subjects nobody cares about and which have no intrinsic importance, is totally immune to sargon's why should i care mantra
Are you implying nobody cares about how the Shrek series portrays society?
i mean i didn't until i saw that there was a video about it
@conan263 eyeroll
@conan263 lol remember when sargon debated a feminist and was so shitty at it that he himself was like boy that was just embarrassing for me
@@thomasstone3480 I don't remember that - Sargon always seems to hold his own in a debate - but I can't keep up with his massive output. You'll have to be more specific (though I doubt Conan will take you seriously).
“‘Well let me just replace what you said with something I disagree with’” BRILLIANT
Joel: "Nazi ideology is bad and harmful."
Carl: "That's just, like, your opinion man!"
Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism man, but at least it’s an ethos… fucking nihilists.
@@thomasharris7881 Nazi ideology is bad and harmful.
@@thomasharris7881 would take a nihilist over a nazi
@@shroomer8294 That was just a The Big Lebowski quote.
@@cousinted So…? Nazi ideology is bad and harmful.
"Why did you come to my birthday party if you don't like me and don't like lasertag?"
I think you just summarized the motivations of a significant conservative demographic (hell, a significant non-conservative demographic is also like this). They don't talk about politics because they have any particular goals or beliefs. They get involved with things they hate because their own existence is empty and friendless. Nobody will come to their birthday party if they hosted one (or they believe nobody would come). So they'd rather go to someone else and complain that they're not being catered to.
It's hard to spot antisocial behaviour at first, because it does engage. It plans to attend your D&D party. Then it refuses to play, and works the room to do anything less lame.
On this video alone, Joel has gotten more coments saying he's hot than Sargon has probably received through his career.
if this comment isn’t 100% true then i’m done with this life. done, i tell ya.
carl is and always has been a disgusting melting hippo of a human being with zero brains & the most annoying voice in history. i can prove it too! try this: try to imagine carl talking dirty. i just threw up in my mouth 🤮
I mean its easier to tell the truth than to lie
@@macmcskullface1004 whoa what? What a fucking psycho
@@macmcskullface1004 Not his kid. He's a stepdad
@@macmcskullface1004 Whaaaat?? Surely not. I bet Mr. Sargon "It depends on the child" of Akkad is a great father!
Did anyone else find it funny that Sargon said that no one cares and that she has no relevance. Yet he made this response video.
He does that shit all the time. All these "skeptics" tell SJWs to stop being triggered snowflakes, while making videos acting like triggered snowflakes.
I don't know if Joel has said this, as I've yet to finish the video, but it's because he is angry that people are still talking about her in a positive light. Anyone liking or caring about Anita Sarkeesian undermines his feeling of victory over her.
Did you ever think that Sargon might of found Big Joel relevant/interesting? (rather than Anita) That Big Joel was appealing? After all feminism aside, Big Joel is usually quite clever.
I mean he's got to get his performative nihilism routine down pat and complaining that Anita is old hat is a good way to go about doing so.
Did anyone notice the video was a response to Joel or did Joels repetition(which he complained about) suck you in exactly the same?
Kind of disappointed that this video wasn’t about the first ruler of the Akkadian empire, Sargon the great.
I had never heard about this other guy and was also hoping for some kind of historical video
Peculiar Kindalur The statue in the thumbnail made it look even more like a historical documentary.
Lightningfast I feel bad for history buffs looking for pictures of Sargon Of Akkad on google, only to find pictures of a pasty white guy with a punchable face.
No surviving depictions of him exist. The sculpture Carl uses (in the thumbnail) is generally thought to be a personification of his bloodline.
He was a fascist as well
It troubles me more that Carl finds his opinion of Sarkeesian morally equivalent to someone else's opinion of Nazism.
The thing is he just thinks on a very very surface level. And at this level of unintelectuallity, his arguments make sense. He is so dumb that you need to be even dumber to understand what he's saying.
I have to keep Big Joel videos playing in the background rather than watch the visuals just so I don't get overwhelmed by the sight of that hot troubadour.
It's too late for me...
He is the new Contrapoints in regards to objective hotness on breadtube
AliceDiableaux the hottest on breadtube is objectively the puppets the non-compete guy uses in his mst3k parodies
AliceDiableaux I ship contrapoints and big Joel
@@coolepicperson4150 HOW DARE YOU HBOMB AND CONTRAPOINTS ARE SOULMATES AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT
"The contract we sign as we enter Shark Tale discourse" bro that took me out
I got to this part of the comment section AS that quote was said
I just don’t get why anyone takes Carl seriously. Like, as a person. He forcibly reminds me of a guy I went to highschool with who thought he was the smartest person in every room, but every time he opened his mouth everyone in the class would collectively roll their eyes. Including the teachers.
You hit the nail on the head there. All of these "rationalist" crapmongers have that same aspect, and it feeds directly into their victimhood complex. We - the sneering elite - think we are too good for them! Never mind that it's because we *actually are* - they would rather change reality than their own minds.
Yeah, because when someone rejects the norm they are seen as "edgy". It's not "cool" to reject SJW propaganda, it's rational.
@@Spunjji Victimhood? Isn't that what the SJW community is all about?
@@TimSlee1 are you lost
@@lauravlife No, I am making it clear that SJW's don't actually care about the truth. They literally mock the very western foundations that they stand on because of tired arguments about "slavery". They believe that white people are the worst despite the fact that white people literally built the 1st world.
to this day, i'm still puzzled by sarkeesian hate train. like, damn, god forbid someone have a different opinion than you. i thought that's what edgy centrists are all about defending.
Time is not being kind to their obsession...it will only become more and more pathetic, I am sure of it. Because of how ridiculous it is, how seriously they take this (especially when contrasted with the stuff they refuse to take seriously). 'Don't worry about what politicians are doing...only worry about what this lady is saying in her RUclips videos.'
Edgy centrists are radical about being accepted and approved.
for me it wasn't her opinions in and of themselves, i didnt mind that she had a different opinion than mine or anything. it was more that i felt like there didnt come from the most honest place sometimes. she was exposed to not really be that interested in games, and just wanted to make some patreon/backer money for some video essays that she didnt deliver on or something. so to my young mind, it was sort of disingenuous. as well as that, i found some of her takes to be quite odd. for instance, her notorious hitman piece really missed the mark for me. you know about the strippers and how you completely had the option not to kill them or something? . it was a long time ago, to be fair and that being said yes the obsession with her is really out of fashion, didnt gamer gate happen years ago? like, Chill sargon lmao. I havent been a fan of his for years now because he's just slipping. did you know he tried to start some sort of gamergate 2 ? failed tremendously of course. I tuned into his channel for the first time in a while just to see if he had evolved at all, but instead i found him taking WAP all too seriously. it must be exhausting being that concerned with everything.
Yeah, I'm a feminist and I always found her takes pretty boring and not really adding anything new to the existing conversation. Which is fine, I can just find more interesting takes all over the internet. It's not a fucking hatecrime against gamers to compile "problematic" stuff about games from a feminist perspective that is already talked about and make it accessible to those who haven't thought about it a whole lot already.
Objectively, she's at most a little bit annoying or boring, and it's hilarious that gamers are so genuinely THREATENED by her. Like, stay mad, they've made this woman incredibly successful.
@@KattReen completely agree.
Sargon only sounds smart because of his accent. That is literally it
*cough paul Joseph Watson cough*
It’s like how Ben Shapiro employs the genius, galaxy brain tactic of *talk real fast*
He still says nonsense with that accent. So he doesn’t sound smart to me.
he doesn’t sound smart at all, he has the same sort of vocal shape as alan partridge. he sounds like a total wanker, and that’s even before you start listening to what he’s saying
@@possumhead2812 *Imaaagine maeh shouk*
"Part of what we sign with the 'SharkTales discourse contract' is that it is something we are interested in talking about"
Big Joel, I love you so much!
I hate/love that part because there's no way to deny i care about Sharktale discourse after watching that video.
That line killed me
"I thought Karl cared about facts and logic and evidence"
That was your first mistake.
"THAT WAS *HIS* MISTAKE"
@@ordinarytree4678 THAT MISTAKE WAS HIS
man its deeply funny rewatching this video with the added context that sargon isn't just an "anti sjw", hes an actual nazi
He's not a nazi anymore than Joel is a commie lol
Really!!! You wouldn’t say? Was the mascot being an old historical figure in roughly the greek era that gave it away? (Sarcasm)
In my experience being put through the alt right pipeline during gamergate “anti sjw” is just another word for nazi or is at the VERY least nazi adjacent.
@@andrewalpern2178 How tf is gamergate part of an alt right pipeline? Was just a consumer movement demanding better journalism. Also anti sjw just means you're against crazies. The vast majority of people are anti sjw.
@@TheSm1thers Gamergate is directly related to anti-SJW content and alt-right adjacent people like Sargon and the other “intellectuals” in his circle. The pipeline would go from watching SJW gets triggered compilations or whatever and then you end up watching people like Sargon and before you know it you’re watching Milo Yiannopoulos and other outspoken Nazis.. I doubt most people would label themselves as anti-SJW even if they don’t agree with the politics presented by SJWs. Being proudly anti-SJW is a bit of a dog whistle.
I think this entire video could be pretty much summarised as "Sargon does not understand the concept of feminist critique". Or of any critique, apparently.
lemondrizzlecake
He wills his view as the correct one. Like most skeptacs and racists
Sargon does not understand the concept of caring.
theres no such thing as feminist critique its just plain complaining because you can numbnuts
i.e., Sargon Does Not Understand Reading Things
@@craighudson801 Craig Hudson demonstrates he does not understand the concept of feminist critique.
You ever argue with someone for so long you forget why you're arguing in the first place? Yeah that's exactly what's happening. Sargon might not even disagree with Anita's analysis, but the two are such sworn enemies he feels the need to attack her analysis because she said it.
"You're right but I don't care so shut up" is literally his entire video
Sargon makes a lot more sense if you know he's a college dropout and his sister has a master's degree in gender studies.
NANI?!
@@basambinsohailraja1801 Here's the stream where he said it. I spent an hour looking for it again, but holy fuck, I gave up. He brought on the most long-winded people. There's a commenter confirming he said it at some point in the stream, though. He said "academic feminist" and I presumed gender studies.
ruclips.net/video/KP-QCOuSGxg/видео.html
Plenty of successful and intelligent people either drop out of college or don't go there. Educated also doesn't mean intelligent. Additionally, there are plenty of people with degrees from college serving coffee while Sargon managed to be successful on RUclips. Your implication falls apart under basic scrutiny and reeks of smug elitism. Just a passing by comment.
@@EntertheFray1 who mentioned "success" anywhere in OP comment? Also, success also doesn't mean intelligence, however education it is strongly correlated with intelligence. What's your point? quoting some passing by commentor: "Your implication falls apart under basic scrutiny and reeks of smug elitism"
@@EntertheFray1 Except good education is strongly correlated with intelligence. I've went from a guy who never studies, to a guy who studies a lot, and it has significantly improved my brain. Whatever though, HURRRR MY DAD THE FARMER IS SMARTER THAN THE PHYSICIST AT BERKELEY.
Ever notice how people like Sargon defend these tropes, yet when the roles are reversed they cry that politics are being injected into pop culture?
Well yeah, everything they agree with is common sense and everything they don't agree with is "politics."
As we all know, there are 2 genders, male and "political", along with two races, white and "political" - two sexualities (straight and "political"), two body types (able-bodied and "political").
There is no room in his worldview for the vast spectrum of the human experience or the wonders of reality, only the ongoing echo chamber of people who look Just Like Him
@@doctorwholover1012 You just did the meme of jamming the stick in your own bike tire. Yes, yes. Agree with the current thing. Agree with everything the government, corporations, and wealthy globalist fascists tell you is true. Believe that you are an avant-garde free-thinker by amplifying regime messaging like an obedient serf, and saying safe things that you can never get in trouble for because every government and corporation supports your stance. Never step out of line like Sargon and those other rascals who dare question things. As we all know, the current state of world affairs it perfect and leftist governments around the globe have reached peak perfection and they cannot be criticized anymore. History definitely does not repeat, nor do leftist authoritarian dictators have a history of throwing their own useful idiot supporters into gulags - if they don't execute them on the spot first.
"There is no room in his worldview for the vast spectrum of the human experience or the wonders of reality,"
What the fuck does this even mean? Cut back on the word salad and use specific examples and quotes.
That part.
@@doctorwholover1012 this is such a good way of expressing that
God I can’t believe I used to watch Sargon. All of his work is just beating everyone over the head with “I’m right” without any nuance.
Katherine Lanier Same. I occasionally check on that side of RUclips every now and then. It seems even those on “his side” think he’s a dumbass.
I assume you meant nuance. There's plenty of nuisance there. ;)
Katherine Lanier I think at one point we all went through our edgy overly-verbose-while-not-making-an-argument-while-pretending-not-to-care RUclipsr phase.
Someone random who are you talking about?
I used to watch Thunderfoot waaaay back in the day when he made videos on atheism. Luckily I got out after I realized he was a massive ass who just wanted to power trip on the lowest common denominator. I feel filled with shame when I think about it.
Sargon: "I don't care."
Me: "The lady doth protest too much." *sips tea*
I dont care is one of the finer sargonisims. Ages like a fine milk
This was probably the most polite and sensible mic drop I've ever witnessed.
Confirmation bias and you..
@@thinkcritically1990 That's some choice critical thinking there. Definitely confirmation bias, only logical conclusion. Obviously.
@@thatsterroristsbro7855 The best part with that confirmation bias argument is that everyone can pretend that they are immune to it themselves.
Think Critically What an ineffable exchange:
“Man this video fits an idiom that tends to be abrasive really well despite not being abrasive in and of itself. Probably more so than any in my limited memory.”
“Hey I’d like to remind you that you are, as a human being, vulnerable to confirmation bias, but only imply that it is relevant here.”
What fine lessons we could all learn by having teachers that take this approach! And I would explain that statement, but I think we’re all better served by leaving that as an impossible to complete task for the viewer unless they engage with me in a specific fashion I won’t mention.
@@thinkcritically1990 Dunning-Kruger effect and you...
"Part 1: Where is Sargon coming from?"
I'd imagine he's coming from his own basement, with a picture of Anita Sarkeesian in front of him.
Are we sure Sargon will make it through this video? I mean, look at the time. This video is at least 15 sargons in length.
DustyO'Rusty maybe hell listen to 5 minutes of it per day, idk may be too much for him to take
It's 6 Sargons.
@@uncleubi9008 My apologies, I was using the metric version.
We are definitely unsure.
A sargon is five minutes, not two. And the metric akkadian is just a stupid joke of a measurement system.
Damn Big Joel is cutting straight through Sargon's bullshit sophistry. That double dragon permutation was quite the spicy debate meatball.
I don't recall Sargon ever making an actual argument. He just hurls his feelings and calls them facts.
True
Facts don't care about your feelings, Carl.
I think it was Michael Brooks who finally finished the thought on the right-wing staple "Facts don't care about your feelings..."
"...they only care about mine."
Projection has never been so satisfying to watch.
@@kylelacey1212 Projection is one of the many weapons in his "red pill" arsenal. Maybe the worst one is equivocation, because after you have spent 2 solid hours just equivocating facts and making such a "clear" point it's a gargantuan task to go through a all the misuse and misunderstanding of terms, literature and statistics that you have let these things slip virtually free.
im shocked that so many people hate anita sarkeesian. people made her out to be a misandrist monster when her arguments are perfectly valid.
Sargon of Akkad: the only person to care so little that he makes a long editted response video
Rain Rope a person that cared so little that they kind of started the conversation.
@@suides4810
Ha ha ha ha. This is one of the funniest 'funny cause it's true' statements I've seen
Alex & Rah have you been living under a rock?
Anita S is known due to Sargon and similar people in the first place
Once you noticed it, the tactic of pretending to be a careless joking rebel who just happen to spend most of his time whining about feminism appears in almost every altright video. It's pretty impressive. At least Paul Joseph Watson doesn't play pretend, he is proud to be a malevolent crazy person.
The problem is always the ego. Instead of being flexible and open to better information, an attack on Sargon's ideas is an attack on Sargon himself, just in the same way that he attacks Joel personally because he thinks Joel's opinions must be a reflection on Joel himself. And in the same way Anita exposes bad ideas in video games, which literally inspired him to start making videos, he feels the need to defends his worldview unprovoked. And I'm pretty certain his view on feminists hasn't changed. He's not here to learn or grow. He's here to demand others comply to his perspective. Because it's about being right, not about what is true; his argument boils down to the idea that his views are true for him, without being bothered to contend with the lived experience of more than half the human population, women who have been the butt of the joke of the video games he baselessly defends.
The end point of his philosophy is a moral nihilism of the worst sort, which precludes the need for him to even state his opinions in the first place. And instead of believing people who are negatively effected by harmful stereotypes and cultural norms, he entrenches himself deeper into those norms, crying out for someone to agree. And the approval of others who live equally unexamined lives is the end point of some of the most pernicious parts of the internet.
B W last sentence is fucking poetry.
My favorite part of this is that Joel made Carl say "Lubenschluben."
19:55 how can Sargon of Akkad make judgements on Joel's appearance when he looks like a sad cousin of Ricky Gervais?
I think its called freedom. The thing that the left wants to remove if it doesn't line up with their own preferences.
@@thinkcritically1990 ok so when Courtney said "how can ....", it was a figure of speech meant to illustrate the irony of Sargon insulting Joels appearance, not a literal question about Sargons autonomy. Remember to think critically when you read!
to be fair, so does Ricky Gervais.
And his femme ascent and lisp is sooo cringy
@@thinkcritically1990 Sarcasm, right? I think I saw you talking more rationally in another thread earlier.
This is one of your best videos. I was thinking about this when I saw Sargon respond to one of Lindsay Ellis’s videos about J.K. Rowling, in which he suddenly acted like the safety and comfort of women was worth prioritizing against “radical trans activism.” It just hit me how Carl thinks how the only conversations worth having are the ones that he decides are worth having. If Carl doesn’t have complete control over the topic, if it can’t revolve around his ego and preference, if he can’t be validated that he is 100% correct and doesn’t need to learn anything new, then he simply says he doesn’t care and acts like the topic isn’t worth investigating or exploring. HBomberguy put it best. Carl doesn’t know. He doesn’t care. And he wants to know and care less.
Big Joel *DESTROYS* Sargon with *FACTS* and *LOGIC*
@SomethingScanning It's any logic that makes Benjy feel bad 😉😂
*with nuance and reason*
Yeah, no ego here. 🤣
Gelatinocyte impossible joelie is soyboy!
SomethingScanning what more of an idea than 270k big soy boy Joel V 1,000, 000 SargonofAkaad
Anyone who insists too often that they don't care... Actually cares quite a bit, in my experience... :P
@@normandy2501 yeah, that whole line of thinking that the so-called "manosphere" are obsessed with is a bunch of barrel-scraping crap based on a study of WOLVES that didn't even turn out to be that acuurate... :P Really telling.
@@normandy2501 shup up luzer betazoid
lol jk. Also for anyone interested in the wolf thing, the original study was accurate, but it was done on wolves in captivity--imagine trying to study human sociology on nothing but people living in quarantined refugee camps and you get the idea. Later studies found that wolves actually behave quite similar to humans in many ways, forming breeding pairs and even adopting disenfranchised juveniles on occasion. It's fascinating stuff to read up on if you have a few Sargons a day to spare. Look up L. David Mech--he both popularized the 'alpha' idea and later recanted it after finding the study to be errant.
@@J1428753
It wasn't accurate. The man who did the study came out and refuted it.
@@Scoring57 I mean if you read what he wrote, he acknowledges that in his comment my dude. Trust us the more nuanced take is the right one here. Not accurate for wild wolves. Accurate for captivity
Big Joel OBLITERATES sargon of akkad with FEELS and CRITICAL THEORY
with **nuance and reason*
Also: what's "critical theory"?
@@gelatinocyte6270 critical theory is often used to mean the same as the frankfurt school. So Adorno, Horkheimer, that merry bunch, I think
Critical Theory FTW!!!
Critical Theory is the intellectual traditions sum total of the humanities generally and literary criticism specifically. It includes but is not limited to "the Frankfurt school" and is the basis undergirding all of Big Joel's videos
>I don't care about anita sarkessian
>has made his entire youtube career out of making videos about her for fucking years
Mhmm sure
Aw, Carl is tsundere for Anita.
At the suggestion of another commenter, I tried to imagine Sargon talking dirty into my ear, and I immediately felt violated and grossed out. But then I tried to imagine *Big* Joel talking dirty into my ear, and I immediately came.
Objectively Hot Troubadour confirmed.
I actually gagged reading the sentance "imagining Carl dirty talking into your ear" and sometimes I have to rewatch Joels videos because I get distracted by him so-
imagining carl at all should make anyone feel grossed out. a rat could roll in feces and bile and then seeing carl would still be the grossest its ever felt. I mean have you see this man? don't let the pretentious suit and tie fool you. hes an archetypal fat neckbeard and I'm convinced the only reason he doesn't wear a fedora is because the grease from his hair would cause it to slide off.
Big "Objectively Hot Troubadour" Joel for next male body positivity icon
“Objectification is okay when it’s of men. Finding people attractive is only bad when men do it”
J C yo shut up dawg
+
I cant believe I used to like Sargon during my teen years lol
The more I age the more I realize just how ridiculously shallow his arguments really are.
I used to be the same with all the pseudo intellectual "sjw destroying" youtubers
Bro same, once you get out of that toxic world you start to realize the mental gymnastics some of these people have.
I never got into Sargon but he likely would have resonated with me. That’s what happens when you grow up fundamentalist Mormon lol. Crazy listening back to the vapid arguments these jabronis are spit out
Well I used to hate myself so much I did it all unfortunately. I used to watch alex jones, crowder, undoomed, and various other "critical" people. Then I met my wife that is a feminist and showed me what feminism is actually. She made points to me that made me think more on what I watch and finding out what I truly believe in.
Much like you said about how getting older makes you rethink what you did younger. I transitioned so basically flipped my wrong thinking to more understanding and not sticking to a side of the story. I wont say I'm thinking the right way, just being more caring of others and equal to all since that is my goal for myself to reflect to my child.
Right there with you brother.
I just realised we're like 6 levels deep on criticism here, this is Big Joel, in response to Sargon, in response to Big Joel, in response to Sargon and Bigfoot, in response to Anita, in response to modern games...
How can Sargon shittalk Joel's physical appearance when he looks like a flabby version of Non from Superman 2?
Michael Ford OMG THE TEA HAS BEEN SPILLED!
This joel guy could at least take a shower before turning on the camera
Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones at others', methinks.
@@Alianger at least his videos dont put me to fucking sleep
There are three things of which we can be certain: death, taxes, and Big Joel being an objectively hot troubadour.
Big Joel is an Objectively Hot Troubadour. It is known.
Are yoy sure about taxes? 'Cuz I don't know man they're kinda tricky
I love how you approach everything like it is art. This kind of art-criticism of Sargon is just perfect!
It's definitely a very interesting approach. After all, even youtube videos of someone talking over a picture for an hour are a form of art in a sense.
My favourite part of your original video was still "he's just a boy, hunting for turnips."
Gets me every time.
Funnily enough, Carl's interpretation of art is postmodern. Irony tastes so sweet.
Jeremy Wild But that critique of art is postmodern. He then uses that critique to challenge a narrative, which is super postmodern.
Postmodern NeoFascism
@Jeremy Wild that literally is postmodern theory
JustMe
Just like Mr. Peterson and his take on christianity and on most things in general. The most "post modern" anti-post modern person on the internet.
@Jeremy Wild His concept of the importance of human resources department in worldwide companies.
Every anti-SJW: "I honestly don't care about this stuff"
*Proceeds to make a 40 minute rant video on "SJW crap" that no one cares about*
I don't care about your reasons for thinking a work of fiction is offensive. I do care about the chilling effect your complaints on artists' ability to express interesting and provocative stories because they are scared it might hurt your feelings.
I also don't see why this content creator suddenly thinks fiction needs to have a positive message. When he did his video on My Neighbor Totoro, I didn't hear him complain for hours that kidnapping children is wrong and how could Totoro do that and now the movie is bad because it sends the bad message that kidnapping is OK. So why does he keep saying that the video game is bad and sends a bad message?
It's the ultimate in tsundere
@@peterr6988 Seriously? How old are you, 12?
@@peterr6988 Not without lube
@@peterr6988 then why are there so many guys pretending to be woke feminists to get laid? This is a real thing that happens! A lot! It may surprise you to learn many women would prefer relationships with men that share their worldview.